1376 by Wintec Saddles: Farrier Steve Kraus Explains Palmar Angles

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This is the horse radio network greetings. Everyone coach gen here. And thanks for tuning into horse tip daily episode. Thirteen seventy five brought to you today. By windex saddles. Today's tip is an excerpt from the horses in the morning. Show right here on horse radio network and this time show co host glennon jamie joined by farrier steve kraus from cornell university vet school and they're going to have a little chat about something called palmer angles don't know what they are We're going to fix that. We're going to get right to our tip. After we hear from our sponsors when tech textiles available now from leading retailers throughout north america the new and improved range from one tech. The world's favourite's saddle brand combining hard wearing materials with best in class technology. The range of new and improved win tech saddles. Now has something for every discipline confirmation and budget. The new specialist confirmation saddle models include the win tech two thousand high weather all purpose win tech two thousand wide all purpose and the wind tech pro wydra sausage. And that's not all improved comfort for you and your horse with super soft panels that mold in and around your horses working muscles for a closer more stable fit plus the amazing new saddle flap that contours around your horse. Channeling your thigh to improve contact head out to your local retailer and have a sit in one of the new and improved windex saddles or visit them. Online at wind tech saddles that saddles plural dot. Us win tech saddles dot us. All right let's get to our guest of course farrier steve kraus of cornell university we're going to talk about palmer angles what is a palmer. Ingo okay so simple version is up. We look at the site of the who are standing alongside them. And if we're looking at the front Limb where referring to the palmer angle. And if we're looking at the hind limb were referring to the plants are angle so we'll start with the front limb okay and as we look at the horse or we look at a radiographs of the works of standing of the lower limb. We can see The coffin bone on radiographs And the the Line from the bottom of the coffin bone to the ground as palmer angle whereas the line that goes from the coronary band. Down the front of the huffed to the ground would be your dr dorsal ango or your hoop angle that make sense yes. Telco is actually more important to the horse on what the palmer angle is. And think of when you think of palmer think of your palm going face down to the ground so your your palm of your hand the line between your hand and the ground can either be parallel. You can raise it up to a positive angle or you can lower it backwards to a negative angle. So that's another way to visualize it. So why is the palm rangel important okay. So that gives that true understanding especially if we have an x-ray and ferrier's have to develop x-ray is that they don't have quick access to a radiographs machine. But if you see a lot of radio graphs of the side you the lateral view of the horse developed a little sense of horses. That have What they're palmer angle is as opposed to. It's very easy to determine what the hook delays. Because you could see you know whether the horses upright or or a low heel long horse you can put a hook gauge on the front and get somewhat of a reading there and that could be important for doing standard bred horses and so on but the palmer angle actually tells us what the orientation of the coffin bone is. And that has more of a direct link to Upcoming soundness problems and things you can do to help that so can you see just by being a layman on the inside of the horse. Can i walk to the side of my horse and like you know what he does not have a good palmer angle like. How could i see that from just being next to my horse. That's that's really hard You have to see a lot of horses and lateral radio graphs but if a horse has that Very upright foot. Let's say It's likely you know like Measure the front of the foot With a hook gauge and of course that's very upright is above fifty five degrees on that angle and probably approaching sixty like what we call a club foot. Most of those horses will have a very steep palmer angle also which is probably above six degrees from from flat. Six to ten degrees on that bottom up angle That would correspond if the coffin bone with parallel to the front wall of the foot Whereas horse with a very long toe low. He'll probably has a flat or negative farm rangel. he's actually crushing backwards. On those sorts of lose a lot of digital cushion which is very important To the the soundness of the horse and and how they nourish and so on so You know usually a very selective to extremes that you can probably easily see so we've got going to say we got a club which so as a club we would see because they're kind of like the angle is a broken a little forward and then a long low he'll the horse would be a little bit broke back in that angle and putting a little too much stress on its he'll Both of those are fairly common especially with ideal. A lot off the track thoroughbreds. What are some of the ways to fix that. Because they can't be healthy for what's inside the hush correct. Yeah ask you get away from normal in normal Palmer wrangle with the anywhere from three to six degrees on that bottom of angles to the ground anything lower than say three degrees we call it a low palmer angle or or a flat farmer. Angle is parallel to the ground and then negative palmer angle which is actually falling. You know drooping backwards or anything above like six degrees is considered a high honor angle. So what we can do And and and there's various ways and there are different for different You know which which extreme you're on here with a low palmer angles. Which is i think One of the biggest problems that you see You can do some type of rock support who help Kind of boost that Depending upon again every one of them's different Some type of properly placed he'll wedge and help but again properly place. If you don't play these correctly you actually create more of a problem and often. The shoes are too short when they do this. And now you created a fokker that the horse is actually falling backwards on even further making that palmer angle that you think you're boosting up. You're actually making it worse because the fulcrum is too far ahead of the downward force of the leg. So it's kinda tricky you really have to pay attention to what's going on before you start putting wedges on these horses but some type of rock for their only Shortening the to- Whether he right trimming and using shoe modifications like a role toe all ways we work on. So what about the horse with the club foot. I mean you know i. I'm sure that a pretty picture would be to just whack up that hill. But that's gonna cause a lot of problems. Well you can do that. And and that's again a lot of confusion on this. You can take that he'll up because when you have these excessively high heel club feet that he'll is not going straight down it's it's migrating forward so again you've gotta fulcrum in the wrong place underneath the leg and so if you take If you trim all the excess he'll off and again their guidelines to do that with as you know only a professional should be doing then. You have moved that base support back under the leg and that's where you can put a wedge also you because now you have a lot of attention on the d flexes attendant. So you remove the excess. He'll and then you replace it with a wedge and that sounds why. Why would we do that. But it's where the basis of part is important not the fact that we have a wedge on or not if the base of support is further back and supporting the leg. There's too much tension with on the deflector out the wedge fan and so in some of these horses if you do this over time you can grow better off on that but and it won't be extreme it may be somewhat more normal overtime issues. So that's why you want to you. Take the high level that usually has a negative palmer. Angle on one foot and deep palmer rang on the other. You don't wanna make these feet match. You want to work on each one of 'em separately now. This sounds like something that a you know. A guy advertising his barrier services on facebook may not know is this common farrier knowledge or does this require an more extensive. Oh definitely more. Expensive education You know you know. I just went in a nutshell. What we may do but what we actually do is more complicated than they're right you other versions of it and it takes a little experience to you know do it. In a way that felt will the horse. So how can i. How can. I make sure that i'm finding a good properly trained ferrier that would have a club or something How can i make sure that the person. I have knows what they're doing well. The simpler method is word of mouth of a satisfied clients. That have used this individual and have had problems dealt with you know usually you know Testimonial type stuff is always the probably the best way of finding people who can get references to. I've worked on this kind of horse successfully and then I'm a member of the american barriers association as well as the american association of professionals barriers. And they both are very very big on this type of continuing education so anybody who is Has put themselves into this. Category has spent some time learning about what they're doing more than just nailing a shoe on. So that's a quite often very good reference right there that if you have someone who is a member of these associations awesome fantastic so again that's afa an a. p. a. I think is what you said a very very very good website. Tastic again steve. As always thank you for coming on and thanks for coming on short and delivering this speech. I think it's so important. I mean th this. Is the foundation of what our horses are. Based on you know no worse so the these angles are very important. Glenn argue starting to understand a little bit about what we're talking about over united pictures steve again. As i was asked to do this i was wishing. I could have a like a chalkboard and by i think people in in closing i think people are who hung up on the huff angles And don't understand the palmer angles which they should actually be worried a lot more about. What's the front of angle is and we see a lot of people wanting to make sure you put a hook gauge on. And make sure they're the same and what's his angles and all that and a lot of that stuff really doesn't mean that much. Compared to what the palmer angles are in the orientation of the coffin bone. So if you wanna see your ferrier sweat ask him about the palmer angles of your horse. The next time there there and see what the reaction is and if they don't sweat then you know you gotta get. That's right. I think they understand. You know they're thinking of that rather than just the outside of the foot and it's a really educational. Facebook page cornell barrier program has a facebook page go search for that and dubbed steve always on their posting. And doing some really kind of interesting cases and amazing thing. so it's Steve kraus certified journeyman farrier at the cornell university college of veterinary medicine the ferrier program instructor. Thank you so much. Steve and we look forward to talking to you again. Soon anytime to let me know thanks. Thanks bye and he is. Great does mean in tammy's been coming on our show for years. I mean i think what you said. Jan called him last night or other vet didn't show up so We had to Do do last minute. He always is good about that and talk about a topic. I don't think we've ever talked about palmer wrangles before. Well that about wraps it up. Thank you again to our sponsor. Today wind tech saddles. You can just google tech saddles and find out more about it or go to your local tax shop and say hey let me look at your wind tek saddles make sure to have all of your favorite horse radio network shows with you wherever you go by downloading the free horse radio network app for your iphone or android. Just go to your app store and download it today. It's free and easy to you. If if you don't know how to do that. Find someone who does. There's lots of folks out there though usually under the age of twelve and that about wraps it up. This is coach. Jen and until next time garage horse the horse radio network and the horse radio network hosts are not responsible for statements made by guests on the horse tip daily. Please use your own judgment when listening to tips on this show

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