Mental health is so so important. I know it can be tough to talk about. But we're not doing anyone any favors by keeping the stigma alive. That's why I feel so strongly about therapy and the work that better help is doing. It's not a crisis line. It's not self help. It's professional counseling done. Securely online better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating with them in under twenty four hours. A service is available worldwide. You'll get timely and thoughtful responses plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions. It's more affordable than traditional offline. Counseling and financial aid is available. If you need it visit better help dot com slash de L. NBC. That's better help. H. E. L. P. dot com slash de L. NBC. And join the over seven. Hundred thousand people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional as a listener of the show. You get ten percent off your first month by going to better help DOT COM SLASH DE L. NBC. Talk about shutters going down your spine. Crime like this doesn't happen. This was just a lightning bolt. Twos foundling face down a large amount of blood. What does this scene tell you? What do your victims tell you? You got up killer lose here. Who's specifically targeting people? Yeah this doctor's House. Somebody's after those doctors. Four people are dead because somebody's vengeance revenge. That's your motive thermo. It sent shockwaves right away. Where she goes. What's HE GONNA do? You want real life. God what the Hell do we have here? Winter on the Great Plains can be long bleak and brutal so in March when winter briefly releases its grip for a day or two. Even the trees seem to raise their limbs in celebration March thirteenth. Two thousand eight was one of those days of cautious jubilation in Omaha Nebraska sixty one degrees and a light velvety breeds. Eleven year old. Tom Hunter wore shorts and a tee shirt to school that Thursday. It was a little after three when Tom seen here on. A security camera. Got Off the bus in the leafy Dundee neighborhood and headed home to play video games as he did nearly every day. It would be hours before. Tom's father returned home but the house was not empty. Fifty seven year old Shirley Sherman who scrubbed and Polish. The hunter home on Thursdays was still there by sunset. Both Tom Hunter and Shirley Sherman would be dead murdered by killer. Who was just getting started? Who DID IT and why we're questions? That would eventually take Omaha. Detectives all over North America and would take more than five years to answer. This one stood out. Obviously because of the brutality for one detective Derek. Moyes was working three to eleven that day. The nine one one call came in from Tom. Hunters Dad Dr William Hunter. Dr Hunter had come home found Shirley Sherman and his son deceased would call nine one one thing unusual pickle. There wasn't a lot of emotion shown but he is a doctor. He has a pathologist and he's seen a lot of deadly seen a lot of death and it was I think to use the word. Clinical the detective and his partner were immediately dispatched to the hunters stately home in. Dundy part of them. It is it's It's an older neighborhood. Middled upper class homes very quiet. It's not a place where we have. A lot of. Violent crime occur in our city even now. Detective Moi still remembers the Capri set of blood. That hit him when he stepped across the threshold of the hunter home. There's a heavy metallic kind of humidity in the air of almost you feel it. It's presence and there's a lot of it and there was a lot of it at the hunter household to the left of the front door in the dining room off the main hallway. Lay the body of the boy com hunter lying on his face. His hands down at his side. There's a fair amount of blood round his head and down the hall the body of the housekeeper. Surely Sherman choose found lying face down large amount of belied underneath her stainless steel handled on kitchen. Knife protruding from the right side of her neck. Both victims had been killed in the same way and oddly enough there were no signs of struggle. No fingerprints no bloody footprints. Is this person. Careful or just very lucky. Could be both you know it. It's not like TV. Not every crime scenes going to yield fingerprints. Not every crime scene is going to yield. Dna or trace hairs or those types of things. Stolen didn't appear to be no in fact the only things out of place were the knives. The knives came from inside the house. He did unusual for a killer to show up planning to do murder and also planning to find the murder weapon at the crime scene. Not necessarily by all accounts. Dr Hunter was still in a state of shock when police took him downtown for questioning right there in the hallway between the back door so the first thing. I think I yelled out off. Do you have any idea who and why somebody would do? Sometimes honestly I've been just racking my brain peaceful. It's almost Dr William. Hunter known as Bill to friends and colleagues ran the pathology residency program at nearby Creighton University. His wife Claire also doctorate. Creighton was in Hawaii that day attending a conference. Her husband had to break the awful news to her from the police station. How's your wife crushed? She GonNa be okay. She has a workmate. So she's not. The hunters had four boys to Rome one in college and Tom. Jeff a student at the University of Nebraska in Lincoln at the time lived closest. He says it was about eight o'clock that night when he happened to check his phone calls from friends family so I said he something was up and we can get a hold of. My Dad. Couldn't get home. My mom one of my friends called me and he told me to call my brother. Was your older brother. Yeah what did he say it happened? Just somebody killed. Tom And I need to go find. My Dad talked to my dad. Get a long drive. It's like forty five minutes. Those miles between Lincoln and Omaha seemed longer than usual that night. It's hard for Jeff to remember exactly what happened when he got home. Who told him what or when that whole thing is a blur. I didn't sleep at all that night. You you're constantly trying to figure out what's going on. You lived in that same house which is all happened right yes whole life now Jeff. Mind was filled with thoughts of what had happened there and of his brother. Tom Who was eight years younger his counter. Smart out he has grown up with three other brothers. He is a smart kid he knew a lot and he just. I mean he always had something to say for everything. What was he doing life? Then he went to science magnet middle school elementary combined with the Middle School. And he really like Sci. He's always outside plan so that was his big thing Gamer wasn't he? He was but more times than not he'd be outside with neighborhood kids but it wasn't the neighborhood kids that fascinated the COPs com had a lot of friends. He'd never actually met in real life. They were people he knew. From the anonymous world of online gaming. It was those relationships that detectives wanted to know more about the investigation begins. Does he play around on chat rooms or anything like that might be nervous about curious conversations online? He interacted with people all over the US. A mysterious stranger and another murder. Where would this winding trail of clues lead crime like this doesn't happen in Dundee? It sent shockwaves right away. The Hunter House was dearly still when detectives arrived the only sound music from a video game in the basement which seemed to add a haunting soundtrack to the violent and disturbing scene. It had appeared that Thomas was in process of playing online game on his xbox could see pop and chips in front of a chair right front of the TV. Probably like a lot of kids after school every day and the game itself had timed out with the music was playing kind of ominously in the background during Bill Hunters interview with police investigators. They got straight to the point. Does he play around on chat rooms or anything like that that you might be service. Vital I don't know he's on his the only chat room. No He's on is why they'll Ville it. Turns out is a popular online game and chat room. That attracts preteens not wasn't all Tom's xbox which allowed him to play and speak to other gamers online was a concern detectors. Wondered if Tom might have inadvertently come into contact with an Internet Predator. We knew that he had a number of contacts and friends online through not only his xbox but his personal computer so those people are essentially in many cases anonymous to some extent. Yeah they are so they might be kids. They might just be saying their kids correct. And that's what we would come to find out that he interacted with people all over the US in some cases outside of the US through these interactive sites. Did you or anybody in your family ever worried that Tommy was meeting people online or just talking to people online through the gaming community people. Maybe you didn't know about that. Didn't really come up till after the fact restarted thinking. Maybe that was something that could happen. But prior to know and you didn't know those war and he didn't either. No detectives determined. Tom Hotter had interacted with close to fifty people online on a regular basis. Thomas was eleven years old that he disclosed that in his gaming activities. Now in fact in some instances We would come to find out that he portrayed himself as somebody. Who's older which in turn could end up playing into this absolutely it would take months to track down. Tom's online contacts more pressing was what detectives were hearing from. The neighbors. Several said they'd seen a stranger walking near the hunter home late. That afternoon told me what the person neighbors described all of complected male. Who was heavy set dressed in a collared shirt? Some describe a jacket possibly like an ill fitting suit with a shoulder bag and several people would correlate that individual to a silver Honda CR V. notify the actual make of car. Yes that all seems pretty helpful. Very the same individuals would describe that that vehicle was missing front play but they would describe the rear plate as kind of a white background with dark lettering and kind of describe a multiple colored sunset or kind of a Pastel sunset so it's not Nebraska play out of state. What are our feeling was yes. Based on neighbors. Descriptions police produced sketch and four days after the murders. Ask the public for help. We received hundreds of phone calls about people. Knowing somebody that resembled that sketch and each one of those leads had to be given some degree of consideration. Reporter Todd Cooper covered the story for the Omaha World Herald. Dundee is a nice neighborhood and Oma. That's an affluent area Doctors and others not mansions but stately homes crime like this doesn't happen in Dundee and so it sent shockwaves right away. More depth about the computer use while the murders in done deed dominated the news. Investigators were taking a second look at a less publicized. Crime months earlier there had been another murder not far from Dundee in this one an elderly female had been bludgeoned and stabbed in the neck. We had knives that were used from her residence in her murder so we had similarities in that weapons were taken from her home in used against her and left the scene. But you have somebody who liked that. The detectives at investigated that case that identify a suspect very early on somebody who has a family member of hers whom she had had a falling out with. Didn't seem to have any connection with honors none whatsoever. There comes a time in every homicide investigation. Were detectives have to focus on the victim's family and friends as far as detectives knew the hunters were a well respected family. And then come out about the hundreds that you didn't know gambling problems family problems now. There wasn't some gigantic ghost in the closet. That made us think. Oh well there is our motive right there. Nothing like down since bill and Claire. Hundred were both doctors at Creighton. He pathologist Shia cardiologists. Detectives wondered if someone at the hospital might have had a motive to harm them having hated. H- all right on our own Eugene. Not everyone handles grief differently. After their youngest son was murdered in their home the hunters seem to want nothing more than to be left alone but kind of a private family so not too keen on talking with media on the other hand the family of Surely Sherman the other Dundee victim desperately wanted to keep the case in the public. We want velocity. You really wanted us to be solved. Halio they have their own ideas about who the killer might be the more they talked. The more detectives wondered if perhaps Surely Sherman and actually been the intended target a secret in the Sherman family. She hated because of what he had been doing to me. The new person of interest immediately. There's a buzz. Could it be like credit? Have been him as a building contractor. Brad Wait spends a lot of time in his truck. He's haunted by the possibility that at the very moment his sister Shirley Sherman was being murdered in March. Two Thousand Eight. He was driving by close enough. Perhaps to have heard her scream. I basically almost drove by hunters. House would've been four o'clock that afternoon. I had no idea Shirley was working there that day. March there later that night brand says he heard about the two murders in Dundee on the ten o'clock news even then. He says he didn't know his sister was a victim. That news came later in a phone call from his brother. Dan Danny Call. Let thirty that night and told me what happened. Then Wade says that from that night on the word housekeeper has been used as shorthand for surely as if her job to find her. They're always calling her the housekeeper and it's she was only there for a couple of hours every couple of weeks or a week to her brothers. Dan and Brand Shirley was big SIS. The family glue after their parents divorced when they were young. She was the one that organized everything she would call you before. Somebody's birthday and say you know it's someone's birthday Thursday or or she would get everybody to go in on gifts and our she would help the shopping and that aspect of it is. You just don't realize it until it's gone for sure. Children Kelly and Jeff. She was the single mom who often worked two jobs and stretched every dollar to make ends meet. We were one of the poorest families in the neighborhood Bartending in the evening cleaned houses during the day. Gardening was her specialty. You grow everything. Eggplant tomatoes of five different varieties. Feeding me was probably expensive. So she'd make her own spaghetti sauce. She she kanner on. Cucumbers made pickles out of them. After a lifetime of hard work in her hands and knees Jevon Kelly say their mom had cut back the hunters were among the few clients. She had left so she wanted to clean. Just a couple houses ever allow her to pick up the grandkids from school in the afternoons and spend time with them spending time with the grandkids. It turns out was relatively easy to do the right next door to me every day. Talk me into buying this house. She could see. Her grandchildren. Situation was convenient but Kelly says it was hard to have any privacy who mother knew everything bouquet went and who stayed the night and now the plot thickens. I was dating a married guy. Let me guess. Your mom didn't approve. No not at all. We had an explosive relationship meaning. Meaning things got broke. Kelly says that relationship became so tempestuous so difficult that surely got involved and actively tried to keep the boyfriend away at one point in time. She was thinking about getting a restraining order. I mainly for my daughter Sake. She would tell me not. He can't come over and I would come in one time. She can walk around my house with the hammer in her hand. Saying I want his blood on Amer. She hated him that bad because of what he'd been doing to me in spite of that Kelly stuck with the man got pregnant and had a baby with it. They got uglier from there. She actually started the process of getting my house out of my name so that she could keep him out of the house right after surely died would have been very private and embarrassing family feud became fodder for public speculation. Todd Cooper the reporter says that starting on Day One. Shelly's boyfriend was a person of interest immediately. The name of the boyfriend of Shirley Sherman's Daughter came up. There's a buzz. Could it be him like could it have been in? His name. Came up again and again a doctor. Under the microscope he had had some trouble during his time at Creighton University. He was just a little bit more boisterous by late spring. Two thousand eight two months after the murders in Dundee detectives had powered through and eliminated nearly all of their early leads in that case. The boyfriend of Shirley's daughter. The man who looked like such a good suspect on paper seem to have a solid alibi. According to timesheets he was working at the time of the murders fairly cooperative. And I think we're comfortable putting him aside and we didn't have anything that would lead us to believe that he would know where she was that day and that he was in that area on the date that those crimes occurred the composite sketch generated leads and exactly zero suspects. There wasn't anything that you could correlate to actual perpetrator or the crime scene. That day as for Tom Hunters Online gaming contacts detectives deciphered the IP addresses and anonymous screen names and tracked down those people and as far as you knew he'd never met any of those people in real life correct turns out. None of those online contacts was anywhere near Omaha on the day of the murders. Detectives were making progress but reporter. Todd Cooper says the nervous citizens of Omaha had no way of knowing that all good police departments are pretty good at keeping that information close to the vest. We just kept waiting in waiting. That question was foremost on. Everybody's mind who could have done this. Detective return to the theory that either Dr Bill Hunter or his wife Dr Clare. Hunter might have been the intended victim between the two of them. They figured bill hunters position at Creighton. Made him the more likely target. He's basically oversaw. All the students that were going through this pathology training program at Creighton University. And if there was disciplinary action to take he would be the individual among others. You know to have a direct impact on those students wise so potentially a lot of suspects. They're potentially yes so. The detective went to the Pathology Department at Creighton and started asking questions. Were there any individuals interacting with these folks? At the time this occurred that you believe could be responsible for whatever reason? If there's a potential motive what do you think it might be? The detective says one name kept coming up. Dr Michael Belenky. How many times you hear the name Michael Bowling? You can't give you an accurate answers. How many but his name came up again and again Dr Belenky was a former resident. Who left the pathology program and threatened to sue Creighton a year before the murders Dr Honors home. He had had some trouble during his time at Creighton University but they weren't unlike other people's troubles but he was just a little bit more boisterous about his. I guess his perceive treatment by Creighton University in some of the staff there. Blinky told detectives he'd been working in Pittsburgh on the day of the Dundee murders Pittsburgh's like nine hundred miles from Omaha. Sorry you're not driving that in a correct presumably. You're not doing that without air. Travel right and air travel something you can check right but we knew he was on the schedule. I believe we knew he had logged into his email account at that facility that day but nobody actually saw him at work right. There is nothing to show. He was anywhere other than there which is not an ironclad alibi. But it's not bad. It's not bad men. Sometimes that's just the reality of our work that seemed to be the end of the line doctor. Blinky had been the investigators last best lead unwilling to see the case go coal surely. Sherman's family pooled their money and offered a there are a number contribution. I think people contributing as well which made it. How big is fifty fifty and all counting? Everybody's contribution we actually wanted one hundred thousand but they wouldn't allow that because they thought it would be about which it was my opinion when the reward failed to produce a break in the case. They hired a private investigator. Part of the motivation to do on. That was we're GONNA send a signal we're not gonNa let it co- case you saw it becoming a cold case. Well we felt it was becoming that way in the end the private I found nothing. Detectives hadn't already studied and discounted a year after the murders in the case went cold and most of the detectives moved on to other things. But for the families of Shirley Sherman and Tom Hunter. There could be no moving off. How'd you see your Dad Change? And it wasn't like he was depressed all the time and he was himself. Just there is obviously something kind of like you can always see behind. Someone's is that there's something there and I think we all had that five dreadful. Anniversaries came and went the dead were still inexplicably dead and the case was still unsolved but through it all the detective says he stayed in touch with the hundred Sherman families. You kind of hear their frustrations when they call and they want updates and they want to be kind of kept in the loop but is investigators you kinda. You can't give them what they're looking for answers from you that you can't give them for you guys to because. I'm sure you WANNA keep working on this. Meanwhile your boss is saying here's another case and another one and another one and that's why it went to the cold case unit and that's how it stayed until. May of two thousand thirteen. The breakthrough moment came in brutal for yet another double homicide in Omaha for detectives who'd been at the hunter home five years earlier. This one felt uncomfortable. Familiar was like oh my gosh this is this could very easily be related to the Dundee homicides. This was just a lightning bolt had the elusive dundee. Killer struck again. This is the same guy is this is the same perpetrator. Yes the piano. Movers were suspicious. Their work orders said they were supposed to make a pickup at this house in West Omaha on Tuesday morning may fourteenth two thousand thirteen but no one was home but when they went to the front door They observed at the front security door was open slightly and one of the movers noted Stainless Steel Handgun magazine lying in the doorway and they felt that was so some concern since they weren't getting any answer from residents to contact nine one one when detective boys and his partner stepped inside. They found the body of an older man on the floor. The victim had multiple gunshot wounds and a deep stab wound to the right side of his neck off to the left. You could see the female victim lying in the living room a large area of blood. It was very clear that there had been a struggle there from all of the blood that was apparent and where it was located on the walls and so forth her arms and hands were covered with defensive wounds and there was a deep gash on the right side of her neck beside her late. Two kitchen knives for Derek Moist his partner. It was a jolt of electricity and a big hit of Deja Vu. We're like this is something here we have. You know would seem connection. This is the same guy. This is the same perpetrator yes? That's a pretty big moment. It was very just as before nothing was stolen and the killer left no fingerprints or bloody footprints behind but these victims had obviously put up a fight. The additional gun parts found near the front door and the nine millimeter gun clip with nine bullets. Remaining seemed to be proof of that. What do you make of the gun? Parts in the doorway. What it told me was that there had been a struggle for that gun. Why would that magazine be objected from the gun? That shouldn't happen in the course of normal firing a handgun. But it makes sense if you're struggling over that gun. This is not a faulty got. This is a fight over two so it was a violent struggle of violent encounter. The victims looked as if they'd been dead for a day or two detectives still didn't know who they were but as they stepped outside headquarters called. One of our sergeants is doing research on who the homeowners to that location where she had identified Roger Brownback Dr Creighton University and was employed within the pathology department. So now we have a second victim from the same office in the same specific pathology training program that we had in the two thousand eight days. The Brumberg would have been a colleague of Dr Hunter. Yes no question known. Each other no question. It had been more than five years since the killings in Dundee but the CREIGHTON connection was lost on no one least of all the families of the two thousand eight victims. Surely Sherman and Tom Hunter. We saw it on the news. People say you know that was. Dr Raj Raj. Brownback was headed. The pathology department creating universal. Whoa recognized that name right away. And the fact that was another pathologist from creighton killed with the knife automatically assumed it was related. Roger Bromberg wasn't any pathologist. He was head of the Department he and Mary. Brownback were both sixty five in researching their final hours reporter. Todd Cooper learned. The couple had last been heard from at about two PM on Mother's Day. One of the first things we found out about was the facetime conversation between both boombox and their daughter and they were roaring with laughter at one point so much that the daughter took a screen shot of the conversation. That's the kind of stuff that humanizes this that makes it. You realize that this was just a lightning bolt in the middle of an otherwise normal. Mother's Day Carol. Brumbach Roger Sister also spoke with her brother that afternoon then two days later a family member broke the awful news. Well he said Roger. Mary were murdered. And I said I I. So when you talk about me. So they were. Murdered will gruesome Euroland. And now I had no idea. I have no idea what had happened. Carol couldn't imagine who might want to kill her brother although well off. She says he and Mary had lived modestly so tell me about his marriage to Mary. I just kind of knew that that was a match made in heaven. They're absolutely happy. I mean married. Just she did everything. She did a lot of editing for lottery. Rogers publications shortly before the murders. Roger had announced that he'd be retiring in June he and Mary plan to move back east. In fact that's why the piano movers had come to the House that morning. Now a town known for its steaks and insurance companies was once again buzzing with talk over murder and there was absolutely no doubt at that point who is being targeted. It was chilling just sinking. Feeling of man is struck again. A new an old suspect. She called her office and said are you guys going to need to talk to me again. In the new target we have to crimes and potentially there would've been another was another doctor in the crosshairs. Sometimes detective work is a lot like shooting pool. Play all the angles make the easy ones first and save the money ball. For last. In the keys of the Omaha killings the basic facts stood out like bright balls on a billiard. Take two double homicides. Five years apart. Both in the homes of high-ranking doctors in Creighton University's Pathology Department each victim stabbed through the carotid artery with medical precision. The next question. Well that seemed about as obvious as the ten ball in the side pocket the last best potential suspect in the two thousand eight murders was now top of mind for the two thousand thirteen case. Dr Michael Blankie but get this before. Detectives could get around to looking up. Something truly astonishing happened after the Brownback murders. He called her office because he had heard about the murders. And Said are you guys. GonNa need to talk to me again because you. I don't remember exactly what was said but he made comments. He was glad Dr Brownback was was dead. I'm glad he's dead. He made a comment to that effect. Yes almost sounds like somebody's boasting about this. It could be yeah and again. The same detectives turned right back around and started going through the same process. Let's find out where Doctor Blinky was on mother's Day two thousand thirteen turns out that your Belenky was living in the northwest dividing his time between Vancouver and Washington state at the time of the Brownback murders when detectives reinterviewed him. They wondered if they were missing. Something could their primary person of interest have somehow slipped in an out of all. Maha undetected any indication that he was in Oman. None none for his part. Valenki told the cops he had nothing to do with the Omaha killings. In fact he denies ever saying he was glad. Dr Brownback was dead in the end. Detectives had to scratch Dr Blink off their list back to the drawing board. If the suspect wasn't Michael Belenky detectives figured it had to be someone else with Creighton connections. We knew that we had to look at everybody. In the pathology department all of the staff everybody there that means there are what maybe a thousand couple thousand persons of interest all going in different directions. Yeah four days after the Brownback murders this investigation got one more jolt. Another pathology professor from Creighton reported at around two nine thousand nine. Pm on Mother's Day someone had tried to force their way into her house. Setting off the burglar alarm. Fortunately Dr Chanda beautiful and her husband were out for mother's Day lunch at the time it made that theory of ours even stronger that now we have two crimes and potentially there would have been another. Had they been home? This is what Dr Batra told. Nbc Affiliate W. O. W. T. TV average on. I think have come a week after the brownback murders Omaha police chief. Todd Schneider named a special task force dedicated to solving all four murders. I understand the fear uneasiness in our community right now. I could feel it this morning when I spoke to employees Creighton University and Legion Health Creighton. Hospital cleese no. This law enforcement is doing everything in our power to solve these crimes. That Task Force consisted of homicide detectives agents with the FBI from our local Omaha Office assigned investigators at the Nebraska State patrol. So this is a full court press yes so investigators once again dove into the CREIGHTON personnel files looking for someone else who might have harbored a grudge against doctors. Hunter Brownback and beauty. Tra- you'd already been down this road before and you look back. What a couple of years. Yeah now what was different as we were going to go back and pull the records from. I believe we started in two thousand to two thousand and thirteen. How many of you were sitting there reading files? There were twenty one of US assigned to the Task Force and I think at some juncture almost all of the detectives would get assigned files from Creighton in those personnel files. Were SEVERAL NAMES. That look promising. Those who were nowhere near Omaha on Mother's Day were eliminated but a couple of weeks after the Brownback killings protective voice says his boss handed him a three ring. Binder from two thousand one this one was thicker than the rest and what I took away after reading that file from front to back. Was that in my mind. There is enough information contained in that file that it made a very real possibility that there was a motive to want to harm Dr Hunter. Dr Brownback or Dr Batra by that individual a new name and new fears were more CREIGHTON colleagues in jeopardy. You felt some urgency twin knew that he was a very real danger he had purchased another handgun. As much as I love getting my hair done. 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I don't care what he says. He's not getting high. Everyone is mainly MSNBC correspondent and host of a new podcast into America featuring the journalist NBC. News it's a show about politics about policy and about the power that both had shaping the lives of the American people. The roller coaster is not any easier to stomach now than it was two years ago. Each week we're going into America to tell voters stories. He's doing the best he can for the country. Because we're in concert doesn't mean that we should use. I might vote. You can find new episodes of into America and your feet every Thursday to subscribe search into America. Wherever you are listening right now there is something about the openness of the Nebraska landscape that fosters a feeling of innocence of Simpler Safer Times in. May Two thousand thirteen a double homicide in the home of an Omaha. Dr Changed all of that. It was the second time in five years that a doctor from CREIGHTON. University's Pathology Department had apparently been targeted for murder in two thousand eight. The victims were Dr William Hunters. Eleven year old son Tom and his house cleaner surely Sherman. The latest victims were Dr Roger Brownback and his wife Mary and two Nineteen PM on the day. The brumbies were last known to be alive. Someone had tried to break into the home of a third creighton pathologist Dr Chanda Butuan and of course because of her position again or right back to Creighton University and specifically right back to the training program. We believe that that incident as well could be related. Somebody's going to war against the KRITON. Pathology Department would appear that way. Detective Derek Moist and his team had searched CRAYTON's personnel files will four after the murders in the hunter on. They'd found a fascinating person of interest. Dr Michael Blankie. But he had an alibi and it seemed the. Creighton connection was a dead end now. They looked again and this time they went further back in time and the second time around. From deep in the files of CREIGHTON's pathology department a new name emerged from back in two thousand one Dr Anthony Garcia he'd been a resident in the CREIGHTON pathology program ranked and was dismissed terminated because of unprofessional conduct toward another resident. Dr Brumbach Hunter. Beurre any of them involved in that all of them but his termination letter was signed specifically by Dr Hunter and Dr Brownback before arriving at Creighton it seemed Anthony. Garcia had been well on his way to achieving the American dream from a working class background in southern California. He'd finished medical school and embarked on what should have been a long and lucrative career but then for some reason his life began to be lit in large measure by the bridges burned along the way he'd been dismissed from other residency programs fired from some jobs and several states had denied him a medical license. It would appear that every time that Dr Garcia would apply for place of employment or licensure as a physician in another state Creighton University. Get notification of that because they would get a request to verify doctor. Garcia's time that he had spent their and Creighton would respond usually Dr Comeback or Dr Hotter. Yeah he was here. He was dismissed. He didn't do a good job right. And so that kept coming back to haunt Dr Garcia experience at Creighton. How many times that happened. I want to say at least seven or eight different times. The Moi's professional failure and the need for revenge could be a powerful motive. Now the detective needed to know if Garcia had the means to commit murder he knew Garcia. Now lived in Indiana. So the detective called the Indiana State Police. So in the Indiana state police came back that day and said we have records Dr Garcia purchasing specifically a Smith and Wesson St nine nine millimeter shortly before the Brownback murders. Well obviously that's very significant to us. The magazine you founded the brunt back home would fit a Smith and Wesson Sti. Yeah now he needed to know whether Anthony Garcia was in Omaha on Mother's Day. Two thousand thirteen with little to go on the detective decided to follow the money. I wanted to find out where he had active credit cards and or banking checking account and once again. The detective found an answer. A credit card issued to Anthony Garcia had been used twice in the Omaha area on Mother's Day. Two thousand thirteen. The first charge was at around twelve thirty PM at Casey's general store just outside Omaha. This is store video of Garcia. Buying Beer. The second was two hours later at a chicken. Join in West Omaha. Called who wingstop wingstop is about a mile from Dr Batra Zone. House able to get a receipt for that that showed it at two twenty six. Will I knew that Dr Beatriz alarm on her house had gone off at two nineteen and that was about a mile away from the restaurant. So you're thinking is he tries to get into the house he can't do it. Correct he leaves. Maybe knowing you set off the burglar alarm drives about a mile to this wing restaurant and he makes a purchase and we would come to find out that while he was sitting at that location he was searching for where. Dr Brownback reciting based on those factors. Investigators became convinced. Anthony Garcia. Was there man. You felt some urgency to arrest Dr Garcia quickly. Because we knew that he was a very real danger to anybody that he could have. Perceived had wronged him on some level and we also had learned through the search warrants by the Indiana state police shortly after he returned to Tara after the Brownback homicides that he had purchased another firearm another handgun in July. Two thousand thirteen. Investigators were ready to make their move. One Team of detectives sent to Indiana to arrest Anthony Garcia another flew to California to simultaneously. Search his parents. Oh it was all supposed to be a coordinated operation but on the morning of the plan to arrest the Indiana team suddenly discover their suspect had put them behind the eight ball. Man-hut they're going one hundred miles an hour. A doctor on the run would the man who eluded investigators for five years slip away again two months after Dr Roger Brownback and his wife. Mary were murdered in their Home Omaha. Detectives flew to Indiana ready to make an arrest. Their target was a former CREIGHTON. Med School Resident Dr Anthony Garcia. The detectives had arranged to have a SWAT team and forensic technicians on hand in Terre Haute. When they made the arrest Kersey is home but once their plane landed. That plan changed after we landed in Indianapolis on Sunday afternoon and turn their phones back on. We would observe that all of a sudden. Dr Garcia Cell Phone is no longer and Tara hope and he was mobile and he was traveling South Through Illinois. Which gave us obviously some concern. Because you thought he was headed where we didn't know exactly what was possible that he would return the next day so we kind of put our plans on hold hoping that he would return to his residence and we would affect does arrest at his residence fortunately to FBI agents who've been working with the Task Force were closer Illinois. They eventually found Garcia at a hotel off the interstate. Our hope was that in the morning he would get up and go home and we could grab there but that morning of course When the FBI agent Scott out he again was on the move and headed south. They missed him. They missed him and now he's truly in the wind. Yes reporter Todd Cooper would later learn that for three hours. All agents had to go on. Were Pink every thirty minutes from Garcia cellphone? They're going one hundred miles an hour. The Next Ping comes in a half hour later. And He's behind so now will you turn and we speed back. And they're scanning the southbound lanes and they finally find him tucked in behind a semi. And you know the wave of relief. That must've come over them with the help of Illinois State Troopers Garcia was finally pulled over although it was only eight thirty am. He had a blood alcohol level twice the legal limit. The trooper said that has breath smelled of booze and then when he went to had to relieve himself. That that smell booze as well. Garcia was arrested on the spot for driving under the influence from his car. Police recovered a cell phone. A forty five caliber pistol fifty bullets a crowbar and a sledge hammer. He told COPS later on a road trip. Nora New Orleans but had no luggage and then the most challenging thing to me was in that back seat was an Lsu lab coat and a stethoscope investigators knew Garcia had been fired from lsu shreveport in two thousand eight. Was He on his way to confront doctors. They're only Anthony Garcia knows. He clammed up on Omaha. Detectives tried to talk with him. We introduced ourselves as detectives from the Omaha Police Department and that we were investigating homicides in our jurisdiction and Mr Garcia immediately asked for an attorney. That's it that's it. I mean at that point as an investigator. I can't continue questioning later that afternoon. Omaha police chief. Todd smarter steps before the cameras to the victim making the announcement that his city had been desperately waiting to hear arrested. This morning was Dr Anthony. Joseph Garcia for four counts of first degree murder and use of a weapon to commit the murders for the families of Roger and Mary. Brownback of Tom Hunter. And of Surely Sherman. The arrest was very welcome news. I'm at Walmart with my kids and Danny calls me and they made an arrest in the case and I think I forgot about twenty thirty items on my grocery shopping list because I was real happy and just had one of the carton rushed out of the grocery store and wanted to go home and watch the news with Anthony. Garcia's arrest Jeff. Hunter says he and his parents felt as if they could finally stop looking over their shoulders. I mean for five years. They're super paranoid. 'cause I mean for all we knew for all I always thought about. Was someone still trying to find my dad? Because that's that was always my hunch that someone was after either my mom or dad. Investigators dispatched to Anthony. Garcia's home in Tara. Indiana saw the outward sign posts of success. The house sat on a quiet street with a Ferrari in the drive but inside the house was practically empty bear rooms bear closets and barely any food in the living room. Detectives found a table stacked with financial documents mortgage information and insurance policies. Anthony Garcia was broke. His home facing foreclosure lit appeared to us that he had made some deliberate attempt to kind of lay things out so people could get his affairs in order. And we see those things homicide investigators when you investigate suicides so wherever he was headed when you arrested him maybe that was going to be his last journey anywhere. Those are thought that that was going to be as N. Game in addition to the documents taken from Garcia's home investigators had to go through all the data collected from his electronic devices. Cell phones tablets. Computers it is. I cloud account. You could see from his financial records that he was regularly going to alcohol stores that he was spending a lot of time at gentlemen's clubs in or around tear. Hoedt he was not working regularly so it looked to us. Collectively like his life was was falling apart. Hardly what Garcia's parents had envisioned for their son when he was growing up in southern California. Anthony Garcia's father. Fred worked for the postal service. His mother Stella a nurse had been born in Mexico. It was a proud moment. They told reporters when in nineteen ninety nine. The eldest of their three children graduated from medical school. There's a great poignant moment where Frederick Garcia and Anthony pile his belongings literally has an Radley Old van and drive across the country from California to upper state New York to start his medical career. How proud he must have been at that moment. A what started as the American dream was turning into something unthinkable if convicted of murdering four people Dr Anthony Garcia now forty years old face the death penalty who alleged motive. Revenge forgetting bad job recommendations with my wife got a murder case. We've got to get up and find a center for the kids husband and wife Defense Team Big City lawyers with a few big surprises. There were so many other people with means motive and opportunity. That could have committed this crime as the father of four Bob. Mata appreciates a placid night of slumber. But on Tuesday July sixteenth. Two thousand thirteen. You will up at four am unable to sleep. The Chicago Area Criminal Attorney checked his office voicemail. That's when he saw that someone from California who'd left him a message guy starts out well. Brother got arrested done southern Illinois for Dui. I'm like Dui down there for Dui within the next minute he says but it sounds like with the actually arresting fours murder so then obviously my interest was piqued. It was a stroke of luck. Anthony Garcia's family had been cold calling lawyers looking for someone to defend. Anthony Bob. Montana was the first call back. It was two. Am California time when he got Anthony. Garcia's brother on the fall thirty minutes later Bob. Motta was retained handle his first murder case. I go upstairs awake my wife. Who's my law partner? Allison Mata got a murder case. We've got to get up and go to Jackson County. You got to find a sitter for the kids. When Anthony Garcia's extradition hearing came up the next day the Matas. Mr and Mrs were seated at the defense table your manningly consenting to the authorities from Nebraska to take you back to that state to deal with these charter you understand that. I'm not going to answer any questions. Regards to his State of mind at this point. The modest brought in Bob's father Robert Motta senior as co counsel is back in the the senior. Mata represented a clown turned serial killer named John Wayne guilty. I'd never tried a case with my dad. And he's towards the end of his career. He'd always said to me if you get a juicy murder that give me a call. I'll try with you and I call them half expecting him to be like. Nah I'm too old. I don't want to do it. And he was on board immediately so this ended up being that case that was the case. Right Anthony Garcia insisted. He was innocent but the modest were concerned that extensive press coverage of the murders was giving potential jurors. Only one side of the story. They needed to hear that there were so many other people with means motive and opportunity. That could have committed this crime. That makes much more sense than somebody waiting. Thirteen years to murder somebody that they knew for a very short period of time in pretrial hearings. The modest battled with prosecutors as if they were rival. Mma fighters. Todd Cooper remembers being in the judge's Chambers one day when Bob Modest started shouting at prosecutors there was a hearing where the Matas appeared by telephone. He was shouting screaming. The judge started pounding on the handset. Yelling shut up. Shut up into the into the microphone. I mean that. That's a pretrial hearing we were seen as the Chicago lawyers who came in stormed and our laws. You know. They didn't like us at all. Might it be easier to just list the people in Omaha that you did not offend the feelings when it comes to a death penalty case. Just don't come into play at all. I mean any lawyer that says they're worried about hurting people's feelings when another human being's life is at stake again as you probably get on the business. In the beginning the modern say Anthony Garcia was actively involved in his own defense. They say that changed over. Time as court delays stretched his time in pretrial isolation from months to years lost a lot of weight. And Bob. Mono- says his client's mental health deteriorated the fact that he was in solitary confinement for three years twenty three hours a day. You know mentally no one can withstand that prosecutors who were also concerned about Garcia's mental state asked the judge to order a lengthy psychiatric evaluation in the end Garcia was found competent to stand trial and a date was set for April. Two Thousand Sixteen then. This story took a most unexpected turn Thursday or Friday before that Monday started jury selection Alison Bodice says to US and two local. Tv STATIONS WE HAVE DNA tests. That proved that our guy was not at the hunter. Sherman's seen Allison Mada spook with W. O. W. T. TV via skype and their DNA. Evidence establishes undeniably unmistakably without doubt those murders. Were COMMITTED BY TWO PEOPLE. Not The claim was based on what the Matas believed to be a potential match between some unidentified DNA found on Shirley Sherman's Bandanna and some DNA taken from a suspect in another case. They're taking a liles from DNA. Bits and pieces and coming up with a theory that never made it to trial but she throws it out there on. The eve of trump and prosecutors are incensed and it really chap the judge. The judge took it as a clear attempt to send information to potential jurors that the state's case was suspect as a result. The trial was postponed again and the judge effectively kicked Alison. Mata off the case. The judge denies her application to practice in the state of Nebraska. Very controversial move. It was just I spoke to the public and that put information that could have you know. Been information to potential jurors and that violated the pretrial publicity rule. The matas wanted to fight allison's removal but what their client? Anthony Garcia apparently wanted was trial when the Matas appealed over his objection. Anthony Garcia completely stopped talking with his own lawyers. It deteriorated mentally coming into the trial to extent where he really hadn't. I mean he didn't say one word to us. This guy's mental state at that point was just dawn. It was September two thousand sixteen eight years after the first of four Omaha Calix when Dr Anthony Garcia finally got his day in court on hand to see it where the victims families who waited the longest arm. Anything is needed to determine for myself if he did it. The trial begins with a lucky break. All of a sudden you get handed the murder weapon. That was again and a bombshell witness a former stripper with a revealing story. Chew said I only date bad boys and he said well. I'M A bad boy. Two years after the murders of Thomas Hunter Surely Sherman and Roger and Mary Brownback. Anthony Garcia finally faced a jury there to witness it all friends and family of the victims commas hunters. Mom Clare Hunter who've been staying out of the public eye and surely Sherman's brother Dan rea two of the first people outside the courtroom. It's been here. That's been going on for a long time. A lot of this stuff sadler. Douglas County Attorney's Don Klein and Brenda. Beal had been prepping. This case for more than three years. You prosecuted for all former yes? Did you ever think about? Maybe we should just take the last two. That's easier sure that that was a discussion that we had many times but the evidence I think would still come in especially with two eight case so it seemed like the most logical thing was. We're going to let them together. Their theory was whoever killed. The boombox also killed Thomas Hunter and Shirley Sherman prosecutors summed up their case in a word revenge and they pointed to something they found on. Garcia's tablet one of the searches was just an interesting quote that had the word revenge in it so We were interested to know where that came from. And it's easy to find when you google. It was a quote similar to one in Shakespeare's. Play the merchant of Venice. If you harm me shall I not revenge load off of the merchant of Venice comes open a murder trial never before in my career? Motive thumbs up the case. That's our motive. Yeah the argued Garcia killed because he was angry about his termination from creighton and that it prevented him from being accepted into other programs to which he later applied as he continues to try and have some sort of a career at every time he tried to get into a different program or get licensed somewhere is creighton thing pops up and prosecutors said items found in Garcia's indicated. He was trying to destroy traces of his troubled past. Here's this trash bag sitting in the sink the chemical odor emanating from that. And it's all these papers in there in these papers after they're dried out is the termination letter from Dr Brownback. Dr Hunter Handwritten notes. And there's something about putting your fingers tape on your fingers park. Your car somewhere else. Walked to the location by common shoes. I common shoes sort of a list. That a killer would make yes it is. Prosecutors said the two sets of murders five years apart correlated with Garcia's career struggles. The first in two thousand eight came two weeks after he was fired by lsu Shreveport the second in two thousand thirteen followed another round of unemployment and financial troubles. He's trying to get jobs at temporary agencies. He's having financial issues. His home is going to foreclosure book. The argued that Garcia's original target on mother's Day two thirteen was Dr John Debut Tra a professor at Creighton who'd written him bad evaluations. She was somebody that he really thought was too hard on him was the cause of his termination to begin with. And you really had some animosity towards her two days before the attempted break-in prosecutors said Anthony Garcia used his phone to look up Dr Beauty Address analysis of a scant bit of DNA evidence taken from doorknob at the beautiful showed. There was a significant chance. That either Garcia or a male relative of his had tried to break in when that doesn't work because they're not home he then goes to wingstop right up the road and goes to plan B. where he searches brother. Brian Bex address. This receipt shows his location at wingstop at around two twenty six. Pm To fifty seven. They said Garcia used his cell phone to look up Dr Bags Home Address as for the gun. Used in the Brownback killings. Prosecutors argued the gun parts found at the brunt bat house fit a gun later found alongside a highway about twenty miles from Garcia's that gun was missing a crucial component. The barrel meaning a test bullet couldn't be fired. However what was left was licensed to Anthony Garcia. All of a sudden you get handed the murder weapon right now. That was a gift. I think it was divine intervention. Yeah the two thousand eight D. case however had no physical evidence what it did have was eyewitnesses several described seeing a silver Honda CR v with an out of state plate. This is a picture of the car. Anthony Garcia owned in two thousand eight when he was living in Louisiana. It's a Honda CR V. The thing that was noticeable was silver The people notice it as a type of SUV or CRV and they mentioned out of state out of state plates right. There was also that description of the man. People saw the hunter home that day. An olive skinned man wearing a baggy suit and they were all seeing the same person the same vehicle and the location. You're convinced that's not somebody who's lost and eventually finds their way out of that it fits and that's that's the person that did this crime and it and it fits. Anthony Garcia also tying it all together. Prosecutors called a bombshell witness a former stripper named Cecilienhof Hoffman told the jury that four years after the Dundee Murders Garcia made a shocking confession to her. She told the cops about it in this audio recording that he along time ago that I killed young boy an old woman and I said why I said why would you tell him. And he said they had it coming of all the pieces that we didn't have in two thousand eight case. That was a big piece. Presecutors said Hoffman had nothing to gain like publicly talking about her past life. She had two children. She had moved on her life and didn't want to go back in time but but she did but why would see mate that confession to her office said Garcia who was a regular at the Strip club where she worked wanted more than a lap dance. He was trying to impress her because she was trying to keep him at arm's length saying you know what he was getting too serious. I only date bad boys. Look good for me. Your doctor only date bad boys and he said his response to her was well. I'M A bad boy. I once killed a young boy in an older lady. It was just they needed to show. Garcia is guilt and we've all their evidence together. You know one piece by itself probably isn't enough but you put all those pieces together and it's a very good case. After twelve days. It was now the defenses turn. They would tell a different story one that attacked the very foundation of the prosecution's case candid. Look inside the defense team in real one real life in real life. You're flies on the wall. Ym You've never seen strategy session like this for the lawyers. Defending Anthony Garcia. It seemed the best defense was an all out offense. I'm not trying to ask somebody out to the prom. I'm trying to defend somebody and I'm GONNA use everything. We arsenal for lead attorney Bob. Mata junior that meant challenging or debunking everything jurors had heard from prosecutors for the past. Two weeks there were so many inconsistencies with the way that they said that it went down that it just never came together for me that he was guilty in a rare move. The defense team allowed dateline inside their private strategy sessions. Talk about our commute. Wanted to know it was in raucous group with Allison Mata serving as passionate adviser Robert. Motta senior the voice of experience something and local attorney Jeremy Jorgensen and an assortment of researchers sweating the details of the team rented a home out in West Omaha not far from the Dundee neighborhood. It was there that they plotted strategy. The first order of business knock down the theory. That Anthony Garcia killed two people in two thousand eight and two more in two thousand thirteen out of revenge. He gotta get recur stupid quote. Shakespeare quoque hurt me shine out revenge. According to the defense team Anthony Garcia had no motive to kill anyone. What's wrong with the prosecution theory? That Anthony Garcia blame the people at Creighton for everything bad. That had happened to him since he left. Creighton and the idea that when people would check out his resume they would inevitably get back to Creighton and they'd get a bad report about him. The problem with the state's theory is that Anthony Garcia would have been unaware of those communications. They don't let people in on those communications on the other hand. They pointed out Dr Hotter had actually handed Garcia. This short letter of recommendation after Garcia was dismissed from Creighton and got him his next job which a month after two months after he left Creighton for his part. Anthony Garcia seemed bored by all cameras. Were not allowed inside the courtroom but if they had been they would have shown what jurors saw. Anthony Garcia napping. He slept quite a bit during the trial. I'd say half the trial. And how do you think that that plays off to a jury? The two thousand eight case of Tom Hunter and surely Sherman was the most straightforward for the defense. There's no direct evidence. There is no smoking gun there is no DNA. It's all pieces and they're trying to put together this puzzle on the stand. None of the prosecution's eye-witnesses could ide- Anthony Garcia as the man they'd seen eight years earlier as for the Silver Honda CR V. Defense pointed out that not one of the eye. Witnesses ever mentioned the big spare tire that was on. The back of Garcia's car was big as all get out. I mean it's enormous and nobody said anything about that. Never never one mention of it which to me indicated. It wasn't my client's vehicle. That's the more likely answer. The two thousand thirteen bombeck case was more complicated for the defense team. Beginning with the fact that Anthony Garcia had been in Omaha on the day of the murders. How do you explain your client being back in Omaha and searching for the addresses of one person was killed and one person whose house was nearly broken into modern to? That's a tough question. I mean you're dealing with digital forensics ultimately the defense argued that because an investigator downloaded Garcia's iphone data ought to his personal following. The evidence was open to tampering. You've got a cop who's downloading what seems to be the most critical piece of evidence onto his own iphone. So it might about a cop who did that search and not your client. I'm not going to suggest that anybody You know specifically type the name in I'm just going to say that the way that the state presented the case and in particular that piece of evidence was not exactly truthful. The defense attorney spent a lot of time talking about the gun found on the side of the road and the AMMO magazine at the Brownback House. The fact that we have been very damaging evidence we want to cloud up about. It doesn't matter right there. So this o f want real life. I didn't realize wise on the wall man out also part in court. The defense argued could not prove a leak between the gun. Parts found that the Brownback House and the gun that was licensed to Anthony Garcia. The parts found in house or parts of a weapon that went through a catastrophic failure. Parts of our clients gun that were found on the side of the road showed no evidence of a catastrophic failure. And although it's the right kind of gun do if it's not necessarily the one of the right kinds of guns. You can't fire bullets in that gun. Chicago based defense team worked late into the night while keeping a close eye on their beloved cops were in pursuit of a world series title. Is God man on first and second? It was during these sessions over lunch. There's no point showing cards that don't have to be shown during breaks and at their rental that the defense team plan and prep their expert. Witnesses this really oil sounds interpretation. Everything laugh at something different. The DNA evidence linking Garcia to the beautiful break in they said was flawed and the prosecution's town line for the Brownback. Murders will suspect states window for one. This had to occur because of where they had our guy at certain times through cell phone records. It had to occur sometime between three fifteen and four o'clock four fifteen. According to the defense the boombox were killed later. Maybe around midnight. Long after Anthony Garcia had left Omaha and headed for our pathologists. Made it very clear that because of the the rigor mortis the conditions of the bodies The homicides didn't happen when he was in Omaha in the Dundee murders perhaps the biggest hurdle for the defense is the testimony of former exotic dancer society. Often Cecilia Hoffman. Statement was was huge. Remember she's the woman who quoted Garcia as saying that I play an old woman. But here's the thing Hoffman later said to a private. I hired by the defense that she remembered very little from that time bomb. Mata hammered at Hoffman's credibility on cross examination the concept. That is just so insane to me that this guy who's gotten a wave for essentially murder is now going to confess to a stripper that he knows that there's no way it's African Cup with them and that's your come online. Oh we I killed people. I killed an old lady and a young boy. I Dunno after three weeks. Both sides summed up their cases for the jury and hit all the familiar things. Then they placed Anthony Garcia's fate in the jury's hands toast from the defense but that was before the verdict of the jury do seen. My brother crashed in my mom. Cry Seeing the District Attorney. Cry Tough Moment Sometimes justice is not what happens in a courtroom but rather what comes out of it on the day lawyers finished their closing arguments in the Anthony Garcia murder case. A lot of people showed up to see what kind of justice would come out of courtroom three sixty among those waiting. Were the families of Tom. Honor of Shirley Sherman and yes. I'm Anthony Garcia. It was late afternoon when the jury the case then. The waiting began huddled on benches outside. The courtroom were reporters and spectators. The family and friends of the victims. Prosecutors retreated to their offices for what they hoped would be a short wait what the defense was ready to blow off. Steam. The models and their entourage settled in at a local bar several miles from the courthouse. The jury would be out for a while they thought so they feasted and toasted one another then as the sound system began to play the opening chords of the Rolling Stones Song Sympathy for the devil. Bob Mata said something. He wanted everyone in the bar. Two year this is for the Dabble after closings. You guys went out for drinks and we were there for that sympathy for the devil comes on the sound system and you say hey. That's the that's our theme song here. That's what we're going for. That's what you want sympathy for the devil. When I looked at the case of the state presented it was pretty obvious to me. They saw are sleeping. Client as the devil so yeah. I thought it was apropos. I thought it was appropriate. Not because I think he's the devil because they sure did state absolutely thought he was. The jury deliberated till nine pm that first night and all of the next morning tension ratcheting up with every tick of the clock. We thought we gave the jury a very solid case. We felt confident about it. But again you don't know then at about one in the afternoon word began to spread the jury verdict. I thought the verdict would be good. But you don't know until you hear it lining up alongside the families of surely Sherman and Thomas Hotter was the Garcia family. They were very respectful during the trial. I will say that I mean they didn't they didn't ever say anything like some some families. Thanks some families war right now. There there was not once everyone had crowded inside. The verdict was announced guilty on all counts. Breathe a sigh of relief. You just feel that that rush of emotion. It was a moment a long time. Coming for surely Sherman's brothers Brad. And Dan and her son Jeff reaction to the verdict relief of relief. You guys feel better. I think my sister deserved that. Her killer brought to justice just wonder was sitting with his mother and brothers while that verdict was read in that moment of joy and gratitude. He says he thought of his little brother. Tom A kid who never had the chance to grow up. Gets me thinking what where he'd be now and what? He looked like now. Talk like what he'd be doing. The most emotional moment came later that afternoon on closed doors when the victims families met privately with the people responsible for bringing this case to an aunt. We've basically gave Ronald applause. Came in because they did a hell of a job tough to be there. Or you're glad you were there. Were not really emotional. So seen my brother cry. See my mom. Cry Tired and seeing the District Attorney. Cry was tough while. Garcia's defense team faced a gaggle of cameras outside the courtroom in terms of what we did the Best Anthony Garcia's parents who spent much of their life savings on their son's defense spoke briefly with reporters rough. Everybody I know it's difficult for the other families who but it's very difficult for us to at this time. One last set of victims. He never wants turned around. Looked AT ONCE. I felt sorry for me I did. I saw his dad's head down a number of times. And you kind of in your mind. You don't know what they're thinking you know. Obviously until they were saddened greatly. Two years later a three judge panel ruled that Anthony Garcia should receive four death sentences for the murders of Thomas Hunter. Surely Sherman and Roger and Mary Brownback as he had through much of his trial. Garcia slept through his sentencing. As for the families he destroyed. Some healing may finally begin like a weight lifted off shoulders. There's not that constant cloud hanging over. Everybody wants to talk about things like that. Just more open better spirits when they read the verdict. Two deputies were taking him away and Alyssa. Motta was trying to convince Deputy Talk. Mendel let him speak to his parents because he will never get to speak to them again. What about all the other victims here? They can't speak to Shirley Thomas Roger. Berry they can visit him in jail Jennifer Bush Hager from the today show. And I'd love for you to join a book club. Read with Jenna. I've loved reading since I was a little girl and my mom librarian read to me every night. Now I love getting lost in the world that books open for US meeting characters who feel like friends. Every month. I choose a book that I fall in love with usually by divers debut author's books that lead to great conversations read with genetics about sharing our love of reading and connecting with each other so visit today dot com slash read with genetic to join the club and get my latest pick.