WKPWP - All Out PPV Roundtable Preview & Predictions w/Keller, Krol, Chambers plus Tony Khan Media Conference

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

We're now on patriotic. That's right. You can support us and get benefits at Patriae, dot com slash P W, torch VIP. That's Patriot dot com slash pw torch. VIP We have three tiers, four dollars, ninety nine cents, six dollars and ninety nine cents and nine dollars and ninety nine cents. The first here gives you all the way Keller progressing podcasts and post shows and the people you Torch Day the casts with the ads and plugs removed that. Membership Tier also includes the VIP after shows that on occasion we put on extended versions for VIP members at the Keller Shows and daily casts and it's compatible with the apple podcast APP and any other third party podcast APP out there, or you can stream the shows directly from your Patriot APP or the Patriot website, or you can upgrade to tier two for two extra dollars a month and add the Wade Keller Hotline to the Mexa daily podcast. Just for VIP members who support us or you can upgrade to tier three and get all the way killer podcast and post shows and daily cast with ads employs removed and the VP after shows and the way hotlines plus all the other VIP exclusive podcasts and a pdf and all text version of the weekly Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter, and a twenty years ago Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter every week full details on how to support US and. Get so much in return with three different tiered options at Patriotair Dot com slash pw torch the Ip you can still support us directly on our website and get the full VIP benefits for nine hundred, nine a month by going to w torch dot com slash KGO VIP that has not changed. This is just an additional option for those of you who are familiar with and like supporting creators on Patriot. That's Patriot, dot com slash pw, torch VIP. Now pw torch and spreaker bring you the wade. Kello pro wrestling podcast. All right. Guys coming up on Saturday night eighty ws marquee purview all out there second edition although in some ways third tradition in terms of this holiday weekend featuring a signature show from from this core group. And we've got a a number match with the whole show here preview it. I want to begin just kind of with both of your thoughts on if this feels big enough in terms of the matches that they are presenting and the hype build if it feels worthy of sort of their wrestlemainia or if they came up a little short in that regard and certainly. They might have had a different show if not for the pandemic. And I will throw I to progress and torch former processing torch columnist Eric Kroll, who if you've been listening to us, it's been doing a variety of AWA related podcast with us this year Eric could have you back. I'll introduce you I throw you I with that question. No thanks for having me. So a Nin. The top of the car. The May. To me pay per views are sort of sold on main events usually. They used to be in wwe mostly because they paid so little attention to the UNDERCARD. And it doesn't matter anymore because in wwe because everyone's on the network, but you know. If, you sense that it doesn't feel as big. It isn't there wrestlemainia. It's because Jay is headlining against. Moxley for the title. I. Don't know that many people think they are going to go to 'EM J. F. early. So that might be where it doesn't feel like quite the big stakes. Card that even say revolution was revolution had the dream match-up of the bucks. February for I. Know Twenty Twenty Long Year for everybody and February. You had geometrical Moxley on top for the title and the tag title match was a dream match. Everyone was looking forward to seeing problems. One of the best tag team matches ever history rustling American wrestling anyway. and. This time jared goes against Orange Cassidy who they're trying to elevate the tag titles are. FDR versus Kenny and page in a somewhat muddled storyline, and if you're a casual fan your like, FDR. Those job guys wwe. So it it may be doesn't have the. Top. Card. Star power that the some of the previous warns of Ad But I think it's still going to be a pretty good show I'm optimistic. Art. In the second person of the Round Table today is Joshua Chambers. He contributes to w torch dot com, the eighty w dynamite primers getting you ready for the show with the lineup and some shoulder content updates, and also his analysis of what he's looking for to and what he thinks that the show Joshua. Welcome to your podcast debut here on the way killer processing podcast. Thank you I'm pumped to be here. Yeah. I think I mostly agree with Eric the it doesn't feel There's nothing on the car that feels Super Special to me I think obviously, you have a massive star in Jon Moxley and I think that MG F is on his way to being that massive draw excellent you know main main event opponent but I don't know that they've quite gotten him there yet and honestly I think part of that might be with the lack of live crowds you know the feedback that that you're able to see and used to sort of feel that out is only online and in wrestling Internet People are notoriously the worst. So I'm not sure that they've elevated him just yet to get people excited I. do think that the the tag match is going to be excellent and because I think FDR are one of if not the best tag team in wrestling, and then you also have on the other side Kenny Omega who may be the best rest of their lives and I think that's going to be an excellent excellent match and I. Hope it's a chance for FDR to finally break out of that jobbers, at WWe, box. That they might be in for the for the casual fans other than that though I mean I'm not excited the battle rows I think are are are messy and mostly boring and you know nothing else on the the card really is you know, oh, excuse me I'm sorry the most mayhem match I am legitimately excited for I'm legitimately pump for that I'm a huge. Fan. of his for a long time and I think that's GonNa be the. Fun. But I think for the casual fan watching that it might be maybe maybe a little too weird. But I'm I. AM excited but it doesn't feel it doesn't feel special the way I think it should feel special. Yeah I. Think some of that's pandemic related calendar related. Not. Having access to pock, for instance, maybe delaying storyline developments based on those Georgia tapings and kind of waiting it out to see we really want to run some big angles and big matches without fans in attendance, and so I give them a largely pass when it comes to the normal judgment, we would give a marquee. Annual Super Show. But this feels like a bee show lineup for eight W to me even and we'll get to the match. The specific match by match more in depth analysis. But even even the women's title match I. Think they came up with something late in the game, pull the rabbit out of the hat without a Rosa but it's not it's not the culmination of something. That feels like Oh yeah this this is something we've been looking forward to for a long time and then not having you know, as you said, Eric, the muddled storyline with F. T. R., Meghan page kind of midstream where everyone's just kinda not sure if this is being booked well or not or where it's headed and it's not the culmination of anything and then as you said, I'm jeff being relatively weak co headline champion. So all of that or not challenge to the champion so. Play yet Jericho their top star and pass pay per views in a comedy match not not a bad comedy match. But when you say it's a top three match and the other two aren't particularly strong. All out doesn't look on paper like I think. Probably Tony Kahn and everybody would have imagined. This show would had things gone a little differently. All right. So let's pause for a moment here. Set The table formerly introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast, a special Thursday pay per view preview edition of the program. We're focus of course on aws all out pay per view coming up this Saturday night former progressing towards columnist Eric, Crow and current P W Torch Contributor Joshua Chambers joins me for this round table discussion we're going to march through this entire show the entire lineup in a somewhat random order. We'll close with our analysis of of Moxley and I'm Jay off though. And then after that, we're going to bring you the Tony Kahn Media Conference Call That torch columnist and Co host of the flagship with me this week Sean Redican was part of asking a question of Tony Kahn during the media QNA that runs just over an hour. So we got a lot of content coming your way to get you ready for Saturday nights pay per view I, our analysis of the show, our predictions comments, and then you can hear Tony Kahn had to say to media questions regarding all out in aws at large. So we'll get right back to that I do want to mention that there will be live. Post show hosted by Greg, parks, not on the usual page at the usual Wade Keller show site. But on the torch daily cast page, there will be a link to that live post show. So Greg Parks on the torch day the cast feed there'll be a link to that on PW TORCH DOT COM in my awol out report on Saturday night. So if you can join parks live Saturday night, you can call into the show and contributor just listening. Just look for that link also posted at pw torch on twitter could be a late night show starting at seven could go for hours so it could be a late start. Greg parks will be there either way with that instant feedback within five minutes give or take of the pay per view actually concluding and I assume almost everybody knows listening to this. But we do have our read feed Wade Keller progressing Poe show that I just mentioned if you don't subscribe to that whatever podcast APP using to hear the show just search Wade Keller and look for the red. Logo it looks just like the Blue Logo for this show, but it's red in its as post show instead of podcast on the logo and that will include a long two plus our. Aws. Post show that I recorded last night with Zach Hagedorn pw torch columnist, and you can get hold of their dose of Awa Analysis and that also includes rapport shows and smackdown Poe shows you're missing out on a lot if you're not subscribing downloading that feet every week. So just search Wade Keller on your podcast APP and look for the red logo in addition to this the blue go show that you're listening to. Now you can also find links to our free podcasts on our website Pete W torch, dot com, the right side bar on your desktop view or in the podcast. On our mobile site. All right. So let's let's get to it. We'll get back to our conversation now. I'm rich band hosted the deep dive with Richmond a weekly part of the POW. Torch Daily Cast Lennox pictures. Search. Pov Torching Apple podcasts or your podcast dances subscribe every Saturday at six PM eastern I dive in with guest for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related want to hear about the influence of historical figures like big kettering Latte we Gotcha when I hear about how crazy the marine movies got we are on it no topic is too big or too small. So if you want to dive in with US call in live or listen on demand and see the entire POW towards daily cast schedule at POW towards daily CAST DOT COM. Let's. Let's move into some of the the. Match, by match specifics here want to begin with Matt Hardy and Sami Guevarra. Judge, they added. A stipulation that hardy loses he must leave a W. It's being called a broken rules match I thought the video last night on. Awa Dynamite was tremendous I. WanNa see eight of you. Put more into their into their show more pizazz more post production work not to overwhelm the show with. A short to the point while produce video with music I think shakes up the pace of the show and gives it a kind of a sheen and a gloss, and I thought that was really good and it made me more excited for the match that said adding that that the stipulation already leave a w a sort of an afterthought or something thrown in late without a real rationale that I picked up on. FEELS RANDOM, and I don't think stipulation that somebody of hearty stature mutt really anyone but especially hardy stature. If you lose a match, he has to leave the company I don't think that should be thrown out there some sort of like. Well, we want to add a little something extra to give it a little extra juice. So op digestion, what's your take on this match the video I mentioned and the stipulation Totally agree with you about the the video package I think those have been steadily improving and I think is exactly the sort of thing that they should be focusing on while while we're in the pandemic and the entering stuff isn't as as exciting for the stipulation I hate it. I think that I hate I always hate this sort of stuff because it either a signals to us that there's no way. Matt Hardy's GonNa lose because of course, he's not going to leave a W. or He does lose and he leaves Awa and we know that's not forever right like when was the last time? It's been forever that someone has done a loser leave town situation like it's never is never happened and I think the idea that someone like hardy would put that on the at someone like Sammy Goovar and I think they have you know they've built their few fine and and it's a good enough. You'd. But I mean how many wins in Aws Sammy Kovar have right like why would he I just I hate the stipulation and I think sort of along the lines of you have feels random it feels It feels, Kinda. Kinda thrown together the last second. Eric? Overdue. Same topic. So they booked themselves into a corner here because the proper finish for this at this point met hardy's career. The proper finish is absolutely to put Sam me over. But if that happens as you point out, hardy is gone and you end up with wwe style going back on your steps and the steps need nothing. Type thing and a e W has build themselves as the company WHO's not going to do that I mean cody. lost. His November pay per view challenge for the title against Jericho and Mj fs threw in the towel seems like six years ago but it was only November. In cody has not gotten a title shot since and you know this was wwe, they probably would have already gone back on the stiff. Man. Hardy going over Sami I that seems to be the finish as Thank you guys both indicated that as well. But man, that's a that's a that's stupid. That's short sighted. The bill has been physically brutal I. Be Too much for a match of this calibre on the car too I. Mean that's a philosophical thing. But do you WanNa have that much blood and table breaking and all that cool stuff in the video? Do you spend that kind of You can't do that for every match do you want to actually do that for a match that involves Matt Hardy and a guy who at this point is Chris Jericho's sidekick entertaining thoroughly entertaining talented sidekick. Sidekick character shouldn't you save that for I think Mike the Moxie I'm Jeff Angle at the end of last night show has more if we didn't watch Matt Hardy and Sami Guevarra at the have that level of brawling and bleeding and philosophically pacing that those kinds of angles and applying them to money matches to me is is smarter and it doesn't seem like aws necessarily things that stuff through or agrees with what I just said. and. If if Matt Harvey does go over Sami, like how what do they have to do for for you guys like what are they have to do to build Sammy into a legitimate contender legitimate threat to anyone because they`ve Spent the last you know year and a half, just jogging him to just feeding into faces and just still being smug still being you know the most punctual guy in wrestling for sure he's doing a great great job with that. But like I, don't know like how long it's GonNa take for them. If he doesn't beat Matt Hardy to keep to Halloween, can you keep doing that and what are they going to do to rehabilitate sort of that? That image that I have in my head of him? Yeah. What do you think of that air is damage being done that takes years to do Their You could in the match itself. You could have Sammy take ninety percent of the match and Matt Win on a fluke like Sammy jumps out of the table math gets out of the way and like cradles them or whatever like the flu satisfying. Lash pit. Yeah. That's the wwe way of doing things. We're GONNA put you over, but we're not really gonNA put you over. You could what what, what does Tony Khandu and is booking when he wants to rehabilitate someone he takes them off TV, and puts them on dark for a few months or few weeks and has them when squash matches they can pad their won loss record I i. don't know that anybody buys that but because most people don't probably don't watch dark. And I mean you would have to start giving him wins if Matt Hardy winds what's the ceiling you've got? You've got Moxley as a face champion I guess if somehow they were to switch the belts, he would be in line for A. Title SHOT WITH MGM but. What he can shale in Asia for the TV title or the F. T. W. title off of this win I I don't know kind of kind of lame I think though the these aid you pay per views have tended to follow a formula. This is the fifth normal one. They had those freebies year ago over the summer before they got their weekly TV. This is the garbage match in the. Paper View formula in February was Debbie Allen in Sami, which I think Derby Ellen von maybe and This is filling that role on kind of early card Guida, high spot, Phil Garbage match. Wilson. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. But I you know I I. Just placement of this match on the card and and is it worth burning out? So to speak the crowd so to speak. The audience on pay per view burning them out with just an all out stipulation match Sean Rattigan asked Tony Kahn earlier we're going to be playing the media conference call after this discussion we're having. So. Everyone can hear Tony's answer to it but. Sean. Radical. Join me on the flagship this week on the show. As Tony, about how many gimmick matches are on the show and if you have too many matches, it takes some of the some of the novelty away. Once you get to the the matches where you want the most passionate emotion to be and Sean was one get that just because of the lack of crowd to Tony Address that. But. Is there with a a battle royal most mayhem match The loser must leave the. Battles in general. Is there too much of that or do you look and say, no, it's kind of balanced out because you know moxie Jeff is pretty straightforward. The take match could just looks like it's going to be straightforward tag match and even express young bucks. Straightforward is, is this a well-balanced show as far as that goes and thus Hardy Sammy? Actually is is kind of good to break up undercard monotony. Erica three. I mean I think Tony Kahn has been booking for what a little not not even a year and a half yet I'm sure he has fantasy bookings from for his entire life. Guaranteed that. Back in the day, but he hasn't been that long and he was writing letters to the and torch newsletter Eric when you were a columnist well, not quite it was a little. He came he was a kid after your time is a columnist but. He was he actually had published letters in the torch newsletter with his ideas on wrestling i. mean he has been a passionate fan for a long time. in so. So he also has, there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, right? I mean in a lot of guys who are smart in who have definite thoughts on how wrestling should be and I mean. There's somebody booking the women's division I. Think it's Kenny and. brandon I don't know I don't know who specifically but you know the supposedly the bucks are booking the tag division in Cody and Tony are booking the the men's division. So there's a lot of cooks in that kitchen. They've all got their points of view I think. I guess if I were spinning this I, I'm curious to actually hear what Tony Kahn had to say about it. I would say it's kind of a smorgasbord of a riot shows. You don't like the straight up wrestling. You might like the blood and guts part of it. If you if you don't, if you don't like the blood and guts part of it, maybe you like the battle royal or the by in match, which apparently is A. Cinematic pre-tape pre filmed match with Rick. Baker. And Big Swale. Some women's title matches well, that might be okay in the ring kind of a smorgasbord something for everyone approach. Joshua, your thoughts. yeah I definitely agree with that that last part is it does feel very three ring circus this time around and I'm thinking back and like is has it always been this for for a w and I think this this feels a little bit more that than usual and I don't know if it's because of the I don't I don't even know how limited I guess their their roster is right now during the pandemic, but it does. It does feel like a little bit of something for everyone but nothing over there's no overall. Cohesion that was kind of criticism of TNA Joshua. So give them what about everything we got opening exhibition division match with a bunch of hot spots, people like that, and then we'll give you a good old fashioned take team match out of the. Glory years of the Eighties and then territory, and then we're going to give you a no rules, e CW hardcore style match, and then we'll do a three way it was like. The idea of. Giving, a little bit of something to everybody was actually appoint criticism for TNA because it gave off a sense of know who they were. They were trying to be a little something for everybody and when you're a little something for everybody, you end up being kind of a below average buffet instead of really good meal super serving a particular audience not sure that's right. Formula I'm not saying aws that bad by any means, but it is when you go that direction, you start saying booking wise we want to be a little something for everyone that tells me you don't really believe strongly in anything and you're just going to kind of throw darts a handful of all at once at the dartboard. Instead of having a certain vision and a precision to your booking, and that worries me a little bit nothing it can't work, but it worries me and I think it's harder to manage. Well, and I think it also is a little bit of not being super comfortable with the strength of their their storytelling either because I I would like I'm looking through this I'm like how many of these stories have been going on for for very long at all right like Chris and Orange Cassidy is the longest running the feud on this card is, is there anything that goes past? You know you know five weeks six weeks? Yoga point. There is I baked. Yeah. You're right. I don't think. So title Saga has been playing out for months and months. Right? I'm surprised at a three way with the bucks. Sure. Sure. Sure. But with the bucks not in it I mean FDR relatively new I, mean I. I I'm not sure about does cassidy Jericho predate. Act FDR's arrival. I actually don't even have in my head a clear calendar on that. And they think it's natural. You You've got the they have their four P per views a year, and then they had that two week fight for the fallen that they put on TV or fighter fast I. There were those three weeks where they had the. That sort of super cards and then you it's some of those views naturally run their course and then you start new ones to build the next pay per view i. think that's to me. That's sort of what rustling has always been kind of ego from big show a big show and eight W doesn't do monthly pay per views. So you don't always get the sort of re matches right away that you would get other promotions monthly pay per views. Yeah. Good Point. I talk back to you I don't know if you've finished your thoughts when I think. About it for me on that. All right. Well, let let's go next match. So I guess official predictions. I is. It seems like a safe bet hardy winds but I could also see throw this out there semi Var winning and this causes. Matt. Hardy to reinvent himself and comeback as something other than Matt Hardy and some otherworldly character because they didn't put a ton of hype into the stipulation I. Don't feel like it would be considered like this big rip off to do that. Compared to if it was like a main event match and it was really selling pay per vice based on, I can't believe someone's GonNa. Loosen. Up to leave So I'll just throw that out there as a way to maybe mitigate a little bit the obviousness that of course Matt's going GonNa Win Joshua. I think I'M GONNA go ahead and consider it until Eric brought it up by they may go with with a hearty fluke victory and that yeah. The bums me out. Eric Era, your official call. I I mean just. Assuming, they don't put their finger on the scale and I think w because they. Have a lot of people in their promotion including Tony Kahn who I like them, I like a W.. So I'M NOT GONNA call him self righteous but the sort of wwe fans on live on the Internet to. Rip? On a w people like new Japan as better than everything would rip on. Any W. If hardy loses and then comes back as a Matt Hardy Gimmick number three, hundred, eighty, two. Back side so. I just going to. Go. With the ABBESS Hardee's not leavings under contract so he will somehow win. Yeah I think so too. Hardy wins but I. Had that asterisk there he he could lose and still not leave. Aloha torch faithful this Kelly wells host of twit talks and x t every Thursday you can hear me and my game of Idiots Tom Style share thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap limbered as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in INEX-. T live on USA network search torching apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand and the entire PW torch daily cast schedule at torch daily tasks dot com. Cheers. roku crash of. Uric. On. Sammy barred three years. Where do you think he should and will be on the car? I, think Josh made some good points about how they're. If if he's still in the same spot where he's just being fed to get baby faces over and their way to Nina events in title matches. That's bad for him. I don't I don't know how old he is, but I don't. Pushing thirty? No, no I think it's twenty, six, twenty, six or Darby twenty-six. Let me let me look. You might be twenty three. Yeah I mean. It's Always twenty. He turned twenty seven. So I was I would have been right a month month and a half now. So I mean. It's kind of like you don't WanNa. Wait too long. You can only to to the earlier point, you can only do so many high-profile jobs before you get tainted with the get when the big one brush. I think Sammy as a ton of upside assume he doesn't put his foot in his mouth again by saying something stupid and getting suspended for a month and you. You know you see in a few years in. The top, the top mix seems to have high upside with his work rate, his ability to talk and. Natural ability for me to hate his guts because he's such a smarmy little jerk. Yep officially moving onto the next match. Let's talk about Ukraine Shida defending. against. Rosa. Not, a lot of hype going into this other than the last couple of weeks but I think it was a good a good last-second almost like a trade heading into the playoffs or something you know to strengthen your team. This has a chance to be the sleeper best match of the night I, think. We'll see it's hard to know obviously hard to know for sure without a lot of. Data between these two but. I'm happy. This is on the show again, it doesn't feel wrestlemainia caliber because there's not a big back but having a champion vs Awa champion Eric of feels like something pro wrestling illustrated would've been writing about back in the mid eighties when we're reading wrestling magazines, fans and fantasizing about. Eric Thirty first your thoughts on on this match what you think of the quality and the build and all that. The the W women's division has you know is an easy target. It's fish in a barrel to make fun of it at this point due to. The. Lack of quality experienced workers. Some of that's due to the pandemic in. Nobody. Wants to come to the united. States given how Many cases there Ben. Relative to Japan so you know the match I. Yeah I. It's fine at least they got a thought that they got thunder Rosa match a last night or Wednesday night on dynamite Jim Ross of course, stepped in it by saying boy is as women's match. We've ever had right like a couple of times he stepped at it, which was hilarious. He was just you know providing all the critics of the division. We're where's she defend? It feels like, I haven't seen her on TV in any kind of meaningful match for forever I'm sure it's like it's been a few weeks. Maybe it's been a month she appeared on like that contract signing but they didn't shoot an angle there at least the match will be pretty good How do they get around the champion versus champion thing? I would assume that She goes over because the. Term Promotion Choose the women's Champ I don't know if the end up I don't think it's a title unification. Match, right. No they have. Eight titles. So thought arose could become. Thunder to belts I guess I don't know. If If William Corrigan, Billy Corgan as I've known him as a Chicago for most of my life but he knows, William Corrigan I think he if he goes. If he you know I assume they've worked out a Finnish when they negotiated this match it because. What you would do back in the old days to a double count out or a cheap ending. And that is not a sixty minute draw which I doubt we'll get here. But who knows yeah or maybe maybe honestly maybe it's a thirty minute time limit I didn't go to a draw. Oh no that would be so bad. So I guess another way around it is Shida here's in the NWEA whenever they get their television backup I feel like they have a weekly pay per views coming I, pay per views or something in the coming weeks. And she goes there and returned the favor and does the job for thunder road but you know it it'll be they're not excited or overly excited about it. I'm more excited at I think about the about you know nwea people coming into this match. I think I. Think she is is I think easily the best women's wrestler on the roster as far as entering ability goes but that's not unfortunately saying. A ton. Dot a lot of people shouted at you. How could you say that? What about Blake? Yeah I can feel the twitter mentions already I think it should be a fine that thunder Rosa did a lot of fun stuff I only knew her through power or nothing else besides that and I loved everything they did. So. Yeah. I mean the match should be fine. But. If they WANNA bring more nwea people I would be all for it. I used to love the the inner promotion stuff when I was younger, you know it's like the avengers getting together. Yeah It's on the card. I wish they had a few more weeks. To tell an actual story, maybe tell you know have a little fun with the negotiations with Corgan or It's it's more than just as saying you know I beat everybody it's an open challenge go further than that have. Some pomp and circumstance to the announcement and say, we've got a big. You know if this is a very big paper you for us. We have a very big announcement. Rather than. A contender within this some feathers among those who who are in this company. Feel we've got something really special for all out may become a tradition we brought brought in another champion from another organization and just played up more than they did the video was good but it did it just felt. Almost literally phoned in terms of how they did it so. But on the right side it, I think it's a sleeper to be the best match of the night and I don't see any reason why they should restrain them in terms of time or or the way the matches designed to come across. Let them at the best match they can because the women's division. Is, is a weak point in aws reputation. So if they can get a buzz going that they just delivered potential women's match of the year on American soil. You know that's that's a good a good thing. All right. So We'll move onto the next match is this official picks, but I think we. Know that hard to hard to choose Joshua do you have I guess I will I, mean what's your? What's your official pick for how this ends up? Oh I. Just I can't imagine she to losing here. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Then join me Jason Powell hosted the free weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribe I, team stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly P W boom dot com. Once again, that's PW DOT COM. Okay so drastic express Jawbone Lucia source against the Young Bucks Matt, Nick Jackson. They won their four take match last night, and therefore sort of a random thing. Are Out there among a lot of random stiffs, but the winning team has to face each other at. All out I, guess there's some ranking ramifications here. If you win one match, then you win another against your partners then you move up in the ranking. So there's some sort of sports field is unconventional as it is the books turning down a celebration which ask express afterwards it's kind of blowing them off and leaving the ring coming across a little he'll ish. It's been kind of hard to read the bucks lately and where they're going with them. And your thoughts on on this match and the build up to. Think, the bill to feels a little hasty I You know there's no real. Big Bill to it I think we're GONNA get a lot of Jim Ross. Saying you know the young bucks are considered to be the best in the world and We'll get some fun Lucia source stuff with jungle boy which I love. But I mean, I don't know there's not much here for me to get excited for I think. How do you feel about just how the on bucks are coming across lately in reaction to hangman page and their demeanor even at the end of last night's match setting up this match. It doesn't quite. Follow logically for me I think it. It feels like they're reacting little bit to a thing that. has been slow brewing right? I mean it's I don't know they. They're they're real upset and it just feels like it came out of nowhere. Eric. Ordeal. Well, the bucks got screwed by. Hangman. Hey I think they have every reason to be to be mad this this match who? This is the well, we got to get the bucks on the pay per view. and. It maybe it opens. The show is kind of a high spot fast get the crowd. All energetic. And I think it has a chance to be really good. I. Mean Juggle Boy's Great Lucia sources. Can play with the bucks well, and has the size advantage but can do the moves I mean I. I. Mean I think if the bucks are community, Jerk doesn't this seem like a good good opponents for them and they go over strong Yeah I, mean. Where I assume, all of this is headed is the S. T. R. as I said on previous preview guests and nothing that has happened since has proven the wrong I think it's FDR wins the bell. And then we finally November pay per view, get the Bucks F tr match that If you are on twitter or the Internet wrestling community, you know about have been salivating for the street Metra five years or whatever it is, and if you are just a regular fan, you still are wondering why are these the FTSE job? W E why are they? Why are they being pushed so hard? So yeah. The bucks go over my worry is that it's not a pre-tape matches Soroush since his injury. He's sometimes he can. There's some daylight in his work. As snug as you might want it to be I think. Jungle boy is fantastic and I'm I'm looking forward to this match is kind of a high energy get into the car type deal So hopefully, they'll put on early maybe I. Yeah. I see a big candidate going on on first. Jesuit. Your your thoughts. On what the finish if there's any chance of different fish? Yeah I think definitely completely agree I think the the bucks go over then I think we're building towards or FDR and I think Yeah. I think that'll be a really great match and hopefully you know will spin off You Know Omega Versus Page and love to see that. Yeah. I think definitely books going over to face FDR the next the next paper view. Yeah. It's like you guys I mean, don't don't don't delay gratification forever to the point that it gets a little ridiculous. Let's get to it and move on. Okay. Let's let's talk about the The other big tag team match here that speaking of FDR and transitioned into that off Kenny Omega and Adam paycheck page defending the. Titles against FDR cash, wheeler decks would. Totally, Blanchard of course in their corner Just what your thoughts on on the the story line and your reaction to the Omega Page Promo with FDR and totally last night to to build this up. I've had a little trouble making sense of it or even feeling confident in predicting what they're trying to do, and if they're doing it successfully and where it's headed, but I'm open to it all falling into place perhaps as soon as Saturday night with some resolution, I'm openly rooting for some resolution here with so much ambiguity amongst the all these characters and their lights is so kind of your thoughts on the match and the. So the bill. Weird. Was it Omega with the line about smelling tully Blanchard's depends from? Somebody. Who writes Ms Morrison Boy. It was it was weird waiting for the screen and do a photoshop. Here's photoshop humor leftover from Randy Orton second. It. Yeah. The bill is weird honestly I'm I think this match is going to be tremendous. I. Think that FDR like I said before is one of if not the best tag teams in the business and I. Think Megan Pager both very talented and I think it has all the ingredients to be really really great match and I'm excited about that I am excited I really hope FDR goes over to be honest because I. I the Omega page. Friction and the the page friction with the elite I'm tired of it. And I've been saying, let's let's let's get over. Let's get it over with. Let's let's play this through for a while now. So hopefully, you know that's the the start of that story line resolving itself. Eric over to you. Got, all the matches on the card I, the most spots about this one I gotta say. Last night the thing sell shopping like people miss their cue or they're waiting for people to act like. It was like if you were watching a high school play and they're kind attentive and. Your Line Asshole And when it is taped, they have the the shows are better than they can smooth everything out, and that's sort of become my working theory on how Awa works. There are a lot better than they are live. So to the match itself. As that, the F. T. R. Kenny page the buck sort of triangle that they think this is all way way more over than it actually is I'm sure they think they're great job on this, and this is just brilliant six levels of chess that you can understand. It but it's been confusing I, mean we all follow the pro product week to week in. We're a little confused. We're not anybody who are the faces in this situation who knows You know. Page Last night, we had like was painted red eye makeup on. It was like Zombie hanging cage as opposed with, which is you know he's he's been broken up emotionally hasn't slept in a week because of the what he did to the bucks his betrayal, he's been thinking about it, and then of course, you have Zombie Kenny Omega which weighed youth and on for. For months maybe even year that Kenny's got a phoning it in in a W. So far. The. Versus. F. Tr zombies for, different reasons. You know. On being the elite, they keep doing the hinting that Kenny is going back to the cleaner gimmick. The I think this week's bt show ended with Kenny. Looking in to he was in a car and he was looking into the rear view mirror and he put his sunglasses the the old terminator. Kenny Omega of. Sunglasses. And so that's where he seems to be had. Explain what a cleaner gimmick would entail for Kenny Omega for the uninitiated different than what they've come. So I mean, this is what he was in new Japan and it was before I started following new Japan religiously. But I got the sense he was in bullet club and he was a he'll the litter literal terminator I it was kind of a the look was the leather jacket and sunglasses like Arnold Schwarzenegger back in. The movie in the early eighties. And and he was the the yet clear. He was took care business clean things up. I'm sure I'm going to get roasted for those who have longer knowledge of. but you know I mean I think. The place to my point to of aws to stop assuming. Prior, knowledge of everything. You. said they probably they're doing a great job six levels of chess. It's like their numbers were great. Last night they did over nine hundred thousand viewers live in same night viewers. They're doing well, but there's a second million fans they should chasing and I don't know if the second million fans are going to be. Feel welcome with a product. It feels like you need a secret password to get in the club and then you've got to catch up on shoulder content worth five years of new Japan and being the shelter content I mean. Tip Hat to your longtime fans but I think also want to start from scratch in terms of in Cody's push this. No you shouldn't have to watch anything but dynamite to know everything that you need to know to be into our storylines and matches. While they're failing on that score for sure I mean I know some of the things I know because I I watched dark and I watch being the elite every week. My my last thought would be. The what might tie together and I think it's too late to save the whole thing. but is a video package that just sort of explained all this stuff. They're really good at these video packages and Or the, it's possible there good at the video packages that cody is involved with. Works at. but. You know cut. Otherwise. This is just a few because Kenny Omega, likes to drink milk instead of the air and you know I think it'll be clarity going forward because on Saturday what's going to happen is the FBI will win the belts. Kenyan. Page will break up as a team I assume this will continue OMEGAS. Cleaner or or he'll turn if even if it's not cleaner gimmick. Whatever it's going to be You know he's he was mean to Marco's stunt all summer and you know that kind of thing. And and page. Better hope there's a vaccine pretty soon. So he can get back to live crowds where he's doing his stone Cold Austin Light Gimmick that's was over huge huge baby face popularity when there were crowds and aircraft vaccines week before the election. It'll be an announcement. They have. They are telling states to prepare so yeah. And in and and then we have a straightforward one on one FDR versus box, and can they hold that off to whenever the November pay per view is I don't know. It'll be a good match. is nothing else? H-. Patron by popular demand, you can now support us directly through patriotic go to patriotdepot dot com slash P W torch V. I we have three tiers including an entry level tier one that takes the ads and plugs away you can have the VIP versions of the Weight Keller progressing podcast Weedkiller purposing Poe shows and the Peterloo torch daily cast that's fourteen podcasts per week but with the ads in plugs edited out plus. Get the VIP after shows don't be left out anymore from those for just four dollars. Ninety nine cents at. Patriotair. Dot Com slash P torch the IP. We also have a second tier in third tier where you can upgrade to get other VIP content including VIP podcast and the people you torch newsletter the current ones and twenty years ago version. So go check it out patriae on dot com slash pw. Torch VIP. Yeah Yeah Joshua, your thoughts? Yeah totally agree I. Thank you for the summing up the being the elite stuff. stopped trying to keep up with that a while ago and I think it's it's hard. It's frustrating because as a person that does really enjoy the product and I, follow it and what's going on in some way behind the scenes I mean it feels like I shouldn't need that catch up. but it is what it is and the I agree that at the very least will get a a very good match and I don't know that anything could happen to make the storyline a satisfactory wrap up. I'll you know they`re Are. So obsessed with the ratings war in the minute by minute that they're they seem loathe to have a lot of video packages because people flipped the channel over to the other show and there's no match going on but you can easily solve for that right you can sum up. They're walking to the ring. The ring entrance. Here's what happened to eat is weaker. Here's what happened on dark if it's an angle that happened on dark to to set up in. They just won't do it, and as a result, we get this sort of. You way talking about Kinky the second million viewers because you need to you need a guy to. Of its quirks inside jokes, to keep. Yeah. I also think there's value in okay. We run a video package. You know who's leaving us the people who love us because they already know this story and they'll be back Awa ran had moved around. Loss haven't haven't been on Wednesday for weeks. They come back to Wednesday do the biggest rating they've done and I don't have any looked chart however many months their fans who are their fans are not going to suddenly not watch because there's a video package. The video package is actually I think of value because the people who are going to stick around and watch it or. The, who want that clarification they want the backstory and you can win them over and then convert them to be did become more vested in the characters in the story lines because they understand that more and you have the power in a video package to emphasize the points, you want to clear up any muddled storylines or chapters that maybe didn't hit like you expected they would and. Invested in your by rates, go up for the pay per view. So I don't like play long ball. You know don't don't worry about whether the next pitches, a strike or a ball only look at the totality of the game and the Pitch Count in and whatever I don't know how it can extend the baseball analogy intelligently from there but. It's a game it's not a pitch and so make everything makes sense and I think you won't. You won't be feel. So desperate that you'll lose someone for two minutes while you're on a video package tax t because the ratings matter, but they don't matter as much. You. Do More harm than good when you when you're micro obsessed about every week minute by minute. This, a company where where Chris, Jericho has changed his gimmick. God. Tony Kahn the owner and head booker is on twitter some weeks debating with fans and other people about the ratings and what they mean. We will you know we won total viewers? We won the demo. It only met right I mean. We're. A very spry individual and maybe he figures out some point. If I want to get that second million viewers I like I like the way you phrase that earlier. That's what I gotta do. They're not there yet. No. No they're not. But I just I want it all sorted out. I want to. He'll Kenny I, want the old hangman page who make me feel sad and depressed. And I want FDR clear-cut heels not the ones who I'm watching it a segment where they're meant to be heels and I'm not along going boy Kenny Omega was sure prick towards tully with at ageism. Joke wasn't witty and it just. It doesn't fit anything. At all about tolleys, he's not old and decrepit. He doesn't come across. It's just like what so I just want to like I'm supposed to like and make I want them to make me feel happy and a domestic about the world and. And I want the heels to be people want to see, get punched like Sammy Davar FDR to be more along the lines of people I want to get punched not people who I agree with because I take rope should be held before there's an official tag and I think hand slapping tag should be required not slapping someone on the back but that's a losing battle for me but I'm old school in that way. But I just like let's get the heels enrolls where I don't like them and and make the baby faces likeable and do some you know get Kenny engaged so that I feel like I should invest in him because he's just felt disengaged he's just seemed like a flake who's cashing paychecks for years so I do I want to transition into I want all these guys transition into places it's young Jeffrey. Maybe, you should be managing the FDR because you have these old school beliefs on tag wrestling I don't need to. Share their beliefs I can sit back and enjoy it enjoy them preach. The value of. That battle has been won with them, I I, do a good job preaching it, and entirely totally can tell them to that. Anyway Joshua. Oh I was just GonNa one totally on board with the outlook that you have to have rules that heels can break I heard it described as think that's the perfect way to describe it but Kenny Omega. Retired. Is that what's happening with him being the W is this item she knocking talking about how he just likes Living Orlando like is that what's happening here because like he coming into it was as far as wrestling has we're concerned was the hottest wrestler on the planet by a mile and I can't get people who haven't watched any in new Japan stuff. I can't get them to believe me and I don't know what's happening I mean if you told People Oh, you gotta watch because Kenya is fantastic and they've watched everything he'd be like well. Yeah, I mean there's a couple of cool spots and a couple of matches that were pretty good. You Know Indiana couple showcase matches. Before and after dynamite existed but this has been a dry stretch overall relative to expectations he should be at his age especially you can't wait. A centerpiece attraction that defines why you should watch dynamite and it's felt like gay retirement tour for Kenny Eric I mean not a good grade for for. This hurts me so much. This just hurts me so much. It hurts because it's true, right? Yes. He was so awesome in new. Japan I mean, he was in the best you know the the highest star rated match one of my favorite matches of all time certainly modern matches. Like a while when he finally won the belt in two out of three falls against Okada. Star so Stars maybe eight and a half and and. You know as a as a Kennedy Watcher I've noticed. He must have some sensitivity to it because it seems like every couple months he's got this guy at sports illustrated I. Think it's sports illustrated who likes to just write these over the top glowing. Store columns, pieces, however you WANNA. Characterize them about Kenny in which he waxes poetically, and the Kennedy provides all of these philosophical quotes about this higher level stuff that he's doing and maybe he'll be the best tag team wrestler and you know and it's it's just Kenny Kenny PR spin machine people tend to react with Ireland's on it are discerning readers because it's so obviously. Spin job designed to kind of rehabilitate Kenny so he must have some sensitivity to it but man. Tick Tock. Tick Tock. Let's go to the dominating Kenny Omega. If it's going to happen in Awa, which is I'm sure your mega would say. Man You guys come down. We haven't even been had a weekly TV show for a year. We'll get there but know the problem is when you have the weekly TV show and you burn through so many storylines matches it it. It feels like it's longer than a year. Yeah. All right. So official predictions for all of us FDR wins in Kenya Patriots Up, and we finally kind of move on from this. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in. America on PW Torch Daily. CAST DOT. com hosted by me PW torch columnist Greg Parks each week. I'll welcome a CO host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling to your calls and emails. You can listen live most weeks beginning at eight PM Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view we go on the Air At the conclusion of that pay per view, you can listen live course. The full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit P W, Torch daily cast dot COM and click the livestream linked to find the next scheduled live show link search pw torch an apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday pw torch daily cast dot com. Okay. So let's let's shift to another match. Here we'll go to Dr Quarter Brodie, Lee Colt Cabana Evil Grayson against Matt Cardona Scorpio Sky, and the natural nightmares Dustin Rhodes and Cutie Marshall with Alli Joshua your thoughts on this do we do we get a cody appearance? It's it's. About, a w all out not feeling wrestlemainia caliber. Part of it is cody is the biggest star of the last year you could argue. You can make the case for Moxley, and Jericho absolutely also, but man Cody Ben the heart sold. Absolutely TNT. Yeah. So it just feels empty with him not there. So Does this lead into. Brody make a cody, make an appearance against brody or or is this just sort of a matching they get to the other stuff on dynamite afterwards. Well, yeah let me talk about I guess cody I I think this if he's going to make an appearance I, think this is definitely the time because I think you're right. I. Didn't even going back to the first to all in. You know that moment when he won the nwea championship was was the emotional core of that right like as the real wonderful beautiful moment, and then who's been hands down the most over baby face for the entire run. So it is weird that he's not involved and I understand he's selling whatever overall in this match I, hate it because eight-man Mantech T. matches are my second favorite type of match the first. Least Favorites I've of match would definitely be a three way tag match because they're always a cluster there's too many people and it's just devolves into nonsense, and even here we have a night person in alley. So so I hate it I love everyone involved this every everyone in this match I love but the eight man tag match format I just absolutely hate and with dark order, there's probably going to be thirty two others that come out and I just not a fan. Eric your thoughts on this. And then cody's absence to it's part of the conversation. Yeah I don't I don't have a ton of notes on this match I. Think this is the Friends of cody. Match. Dark order versus cody. It's the don't forget about cody as he's off acting if that's what he's doing right if he's filming that TV show with. Stephen Mel Heels I don't know if that's what he's doing. If shooting a movie, I mean, the good news would be a silver lining would be that cody doesn't appear. We don't have to see that horrible neck Tattoo. We? there. But I think coat isn't cody pretty morton part of the backstage and sitting in what used to be. Gorilla position and and kind of running things into the trains run on time which he seems to have a skill for and my other note on this match was mid. Yeah I think. I think when I was watching the road to this week. I thought Keesey marshalls, Promo, I. Don't know if he. was very weird. It was very intense, but it was mostly like, Oh people you know people call me cody's lackey or whatever, and like that might be true but you don't understand the pressure that comes with that and like all centered around cody who's not even involved in the match up and it just so for him to not appear that would be real weird. But if he does appear think would also take away from everyone else in this situation. Regarding that Promo who was cody's father again I it's slipping my mind I. Did the same thing in the AIDS if yeah. Dusty Rhodes wasn't on the screen yet to be talking about dusty Rhodes. Yep Yep. All right. So moving on here, we'll talk about the twenty one man casino. Battle. Royal. Not. GonNa list. But somebody's GonNa win presumably and get a future Awa world title match. I could also see the brawl just going on forever and they just cut away to something else. Like last night. So Eric Your your thoughts on the hype last night for this Some big name talkers. In, some big behemoth wrestlers and Lance Archer and Brian Cage and teasing they're going to do there. You've got Jake Hager in the mix and then just athletic guys like. The Luther Bros.. wildcards like Shawn Spears. Darby. Ellen your thoughts on on the hype last night for this and then who you think should or ought to win and I'll complicate in compound my question which the expect any surprise appearances by anyone because they haven't announced twenty one man. Yeah. So The the better I've nicknames for half the mattress on the show. Actually this is the Hilo Battle Royal. Golf. On TV last night besides like Darby and maybe was with Scorpio. Was that see you out there. I. Mean it was turns and Chuck Taylor. Okay. Yeah. The best maybe maybe Austin gun we don't really know what he's up to. In I would have to. Go back and look at the tape I swear to God at some point what are the announcers said? Oh there goes Sir Panico and I'm a white. Guy From dark that's that's the level we're talking about here. Now I loved that I the all out the all. Whatever the, what was the first piece of you all in a couple of years ago in in suburban Chicago. I was their lives They had that battle hire. You were you were there it was fun. I couldn't remember which which was all out which ones all Lynn it's all it's all a mishmash. That was I had I thought that was a lot of fun. It was a well thought out well, Book Battle Royal The hype for this has been kind of throw away. They tried Wednesday but it just kind of sucked. Kingston got lost during the middle of his promo because. Jay Cortez or both of them interrupted him and Jake with his in Fort. Black with the accusing him of being drunk thing. Yeah. And it's Men I would have preferred instead of all this Michigan the starks versus Derby match on pay per view I'd love to see that starts trying to get revenge for taking a skateboard thumb deck skateboard the back that would be great i. think this is just the get everyone at Wrestlemainia. Oils just to get everyone on the card match. I will answer your other questions. I will pick a winner I will. Go out here. Suming that? No, there are no big. Surprises in debuts and I think Tony Kahn if I if I read it correctly. Didn't wasn't specifically talking about the royal, but you know there's lots of keep. There's lots of surprises and we keep a small circle with that and there's more surprises ahead of you in the coming weeks they tend to they tend to debut somebody right on each view and it's you know Brian Cage I think in the the May one debuted in that was some kind of ladder match. To get a title shot that ended up being in the fight for the fall in or fighter fast which ever one which. Aired on July. Assuming that there's no huge person debut and I guess if we were going to try and figure out who at this point go to the list of everybody wwe released back ring when they were cutting costs when they didn't need to putting people out of work in the middle of the pandemic. You might remember that. Lance Archer. My pick to win. He is high in the rankings. His only loss has been to cody for in the TV TNT tournament finals earlier this year and he has been protected in you know seems to be. The he would be next may be logical TV opponent midway between now and November for Moxley so. So Joshua over to you. Your thought on On this match. Yeah overall. It's you know whatever I agree I think it's the just everyone on screen match I mean there are I think three spots still open for surprises so that that's fun. I. Think. People would put money on rousseff being one of guys. Would be one of my picks I would love to see nick all this. But I don't know how realistic that is but like looking at the list of people who are announced I mean. Most of them have had most of them are either joggers or have had shots and lost right at a title, and so that's not super exciting and it's also this also bugs me where I think this is a perfect opportunity to make this. The winner receives a teen championship shot. Right. As if they tell us, you know the ratings, the rankings matter the rain. He's very thing we're doing. We're doing sports feel. But then like every other week, there's a way to circumvent being in. The top five to get a title shot right in or there's a match that jumbles up who the top five is, what the rankings are, and this feels like another one of those and I don't know why you have. You have a mid card title why not have all of these mid card guys get a shot at that so that that annoys me as far as I don't I don't know who will win, but I would love to see a Pentagon, junior singles run. But that was that was my pick A. Last night's Poe show talking about this I I like that as not someone you're ready to make headline pay per view with, but you build up for something on TV. Without spending a car that feels too big to spend in these in this type of circumstance. Yeah absolutely. And so yeah, overall not pumped but I mean I'm always I'm always excited for debuts and would be thrilled to see to see rousseff. And Yeah that's that's where I'm at. Yeah I. Agree. I applaud Josh for knowing that there are eighteen people already announced. Major props there we go. Any any dark horse candidates for your in terms of surprises. Just, who who would you like to see your who you throw the responsibility Yeah I think Josh made a good point about a lot of the people who might be favorites have. Cage Darby have. had sort of had their run up. In their their sort of slandering or. Less laundry but they're you know they're waiting for the next big thing. I would. Pentagon in Phoenix have been to the most underutilized wrestlers in the. Company and either one of you know penthouse especially deserves. I, you get somebody to talk or you just translate. You just put some titles when he's talking and God guy can work. He's great. Phoenix's amazing. As well, they're both author so great and they just. Other than that, I, pay per view A year ago all out. One I. Guess. They just have not done enough part of that is due to the pandemic but even before they were just. They were just floundering. I thought we were going to get the start is something with the. Death Triangle, the the. They were going to be with pock and then the I am. Gets that's gone. So I yeah I don't. Done candidate would be whoever debuts right I guess. Right, and is pock stuck overseas is that what's happening? Not Yeah you know that he could get back in after again. Cove infested Florida. Yeah. I. Don't know what it says about And Hello Jack Evans, that they're not even in this. AWRO and they're just taking. So when we're talking about filling in spots, I mean keep saving to not listed for this. No. Peter Avalon Brennan. Cutler I mean, there's there's some aws dark. Mainstays who. I just WanNa to lower expectations they could end up being You know one or two of the final three spots that haven't been announced yet to. It they added the dark there. I don't know if they're just not airing on Monday they aired aired want their airing on Friday i. don't know that any matches have been announced, but maybe that's their solution to get some other dudes on the card. Yeah. Yeah. They can have like a mini battle royale to determine who gets the. Last. Open, Spot. On a pre show I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying they might do that. Let me be clear. We'll wait you would know because you're busy to watch w dark but finally Brandon Cutler and Peter Avalon had their break-up Peter avalon attacked them after their latest tag team lost this week. So I'm I'm looking forward to the singles match when one of them will get off night and get their I w actually. It's been going on for so long. It's a guilty pleasure I. Guess. All right great. Let's move to Bert. Baker. Big Swells speaking of not paper. I've tried to do this as random as possible like if you haven't noticed match order because. It's building biggest smaller small to biggest whatever's little too formulaic for me today at least. So yeah for big Swale. With reba rebel with Baker. Erich, your thoughts on what they did to build this up and all this time spent on Bert Bakker on TV, and it's to the nail pre show match. I believe I heard or read somewhere credible that It's a cinematic match possibly. Bakers Office Dental Office and the reason for that is because British still not a hundred percent. So that's true. I guess that explains it. The good news is they will get to tape this match ahead of time at edit out all of the botch spots of I'm going to guess up which there would be many if it were a traditional match. I. Hope it's better than the two on one match that swell had a win to get here. I Don dynamite last week I don't see how it could be any worse that was that was just a disaster, the the the rebel panel before versus big swath match I never saw a fake pizza delivery used to attack someone rustling that was the setup angle. So Props on that I assume Brit wins by cheating because even though. You would like to see swale get her A. Get her just desserts prefigure gator come up in. Britain is coming back and I presumed they're going to push her to the Moon in the women's division because they just don't have a lot going on there. Brit will be entertaining if nothing else she is a walking riots and she turned heel. I don't know what a tooth and nail match is. Maybe they've explained it and I just. I just don't know. In then mine I don't even want to know. mean. I get the you know the play on words but I don't know that I want to know what the stipulations are. These are I don't want my they're both torture like your torture someone through the nerves in your teeth it's going to be we're going to drill your drill your teeth without without Novacaine, and then like Shelvin file up your fingernails, it's like it sounds like some sort of torture Mitch designed. As some word play for a fun gimmick match. So I'm a little worried about we're GONNA see in the cinematic battler I. Guess I guess the biggest question I had this? The heck is this on the by this is the by is always people Reagan the in for being bad and think they have been pretty bad over the year over the you know the five paper per views we have to go on and. This does not make me want to buy the pay per view right? It's not getting me to hit the the it's IT'S Insignificant decision to Spend Fifty Bucks as opposed to ten bucks The network subscription so. How is this drawing people in and sealing the deal I do not know for the life of me why this gimmick matches the thing you'd put on the by in show. Yeah Josh what you thought. That's my big takeaway. One hundred percent is they've got to figure out what they're doing their pre shows right? Because it's yeah. You put the put this on in I'm changing the channel right? This is. I don't know as far as far as the winner goes I happen to think I think big will is GonNa get her comeuppance because I think this is the lowest possible stakes that wrestling match could have and brick take win loss here, and it's not gonNA matter even a little bit. I think these are two women whose work is not. The not the the the cleanest Brits great carried by her character work, which is, which is wonderful. And big soul has a great look but just the entering work is. Leaves a lot to be desired. So if it is a pre taped cinematic match that will I agree definitely boost the quality but I don't know why would be on the buying and not thrown somewhere in the middle of the. Paper. If they're if they're set on doing it. Yeah. Wrestling fans are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life? Well, we're those kind of people to, but we do. So with mixed martial arts, I'm Robert via hosts, hosts of enemy talked for pro wrestling advanced every Monday. On pw torches daily cast lineup not only do we cover every you of C. and Bella tour event we provide context that only a wrestling fan would really understand I mean we're the type. Of People that if you ask us about how much of a mess middleweight title situation is were likely to reference. WCW. In the early nineties, think of us as a podcast for casual MMA fence done by hardcore notes, and you could find us by searching pw torch Apple podcasts or any popular podcast Abbott and were always available on demand at peak w torch CASS dot com where you can check out the entire lineup of the PD daily cast. All right. Let's let's move to two of the top matches here. Too of because maybe somewhat have the take tuttle match bigger but. Chris Jericho Orange Cassidy, most the mayhem match I think it's genius. You'd Chris, Jericho with a bubbly and orange cassidy with his name and not end up with a gimmick match. Eric did you chuckled? Did you roll your eyes? What was your reaction to the stipulation? The play on words in the actual. Idea of a VAT of of orange juice. In bubbly. Ringside is one of the ways to end this match. Well, when I I I didn't it I'm like what the heck is. This crap sounds stupid and I started thinking about it. Well, what's the motivation here and in a normal match? This is the blow off match the rubber match third one in the series was like well, if it's a normal wrestling match, Jericho's already job to a one C, even though it was kind of a Fluke Fluke Pin. This is a this that this is a perfect stipulation because it's a great way Jericho to lose the feud and he doesn't have to do a job right here. He did a job orange cassidy one seat doesn't probably doesn't want to lay down for him again. And it elevates Orange Cassidy 'cause he won the feud and Orange Cassidy needs to be elevated a they are building him and so that that was my reaction to the step the build itself has been good. You know we had that that. Again I can't remember this. This has been going on for what six weeks it's been an I six week seven week however long it's been program. we had that Kerry segment or the ring orange dumps the gallons of orange juice on them. And there were beat downs weren't took his lumps. The heels beat him down. There was a brawl and the show I believe last week. And then they had the the you know another segment last night I mean at this point you a fan want to see Chris Jericho slaving in that stupid bet of orange juice and. In the bubbly and it's GonNa be a great visual in Jericho presumably will ham it up. It's the only finish that makes sense. Nobody wants to see Orange Cassidy. Thrown a new event. You know he doesn't he's not going to overreact to it. He's like a react at all because guess not reacts anything and. You know you want to pay to see that what do I wanna pay to see I WANNA pay to see maximum gas I wanna pay to see Chris Jericho flailing in this Vat I know wait for you this fifty dollar pay per view will be a tax write off for me. It's not Fifty dollars out of my pocket I'm happy to pay it. All right. Joshua, your thought. Completely. Agree. I'm paying to see MIMOSA mayhem and. Omega Page F. T. are those are the team matches for me I'm a huge fan of I've been a huge fan of Chris Jericho forever and a big fan of Orange Cassidy, is consistently the only The only wrestler that non wrestling fans bring up to me. Would when we're talking about like he is he's over and so entertaining and I think if you're listening and you haven't seen his match against. Gentlemen. Jervis from Russell Circus, go check it out. He is the peak of comedy wrestling for me I love him. And I think this I totally agree that as soon as I heard the stipulation for this one I said that's genius just the name of it but then also I had that visual of Chris. Jericho in the vet flailing around being Chris Jericho and I'm pumped. This is it's so fun to me and wrestling is not a swan as it should be and this is this is great. A personal note about Orange Cassidy. So Eight has fortunately for me. I live on the Chicago area and W has made Chicago kind of home base a bunch of their paper juice have been from Chicago or the and. There was that Conrad Thompson Convention. What was it called Super Cast? was that the name of it? At, a hotel and there were bunch of meet and greets in I am not the type of person who's GonNa post pictures of with Rustler's on social media that is not my brand. I did pay ten dollars I gotta decide gotTa half-off thing to I wanted to ask Orange Cassidy a question, and I was happy to pay my ten dollars to do it and I said look man, your super entertaining gimmick is super. This postmodern thing is unique. I. You know the at the time, the concerns where you're going to be on television weekly and it's getting old real fast unless it evolves a little bit and he didn't give up he didn't give up the ghost on on drums character but he said, yeah, the the general gist of it not verbatim quotes was yeah. I I understand that. We have a plan I'm really excited about it. I. Think it's GonNa work out and man if he wasn't right. Yeah. Yeah and the idea that he's more catlike than slop like in that just lay around. But then I didn't know where he just darts across the roof. If you've ever lived with the cat, that's what they do they like what happened and why did you just do that and? They see a spot on the wall or a bug or A thought in their head who else what it is and yeah like the idea that they've added like you know the Zombie movie where zombies could run really fast as a twist. So, which one was that they go? To twenty four days later, something like that. So yeah. So it's a it's a twist. I. Don't know if that was kind of part of his plan or or just a necessary component of functioning as a wrestler national TV but things have worked out well for him I mean. To go from the sidekick to amid car tag team to the mid card tag team being your sidekick in your essentially co headlining. A major pay per view against Chris Jericho, who is either their top aide star or? Right there. Certainly name value in legacy and all that and the TV time and I think they like crowd this to be over big. Awa fancier discerning in certain ways. But they will lap up certain things that are on. This is on brand for what? I. Aws fans want in the mix of their wrestling, which is good in their mind and I agree good smart comedy and Jericho and Cassidy have been a lot of fun playing off of each other. I've I've enjoyed this and I'm looking forward to what they do I mean it is it. Is a little off the Hook Kevin have you know a five star main event match or whatever? You know the demands that that have? Followed him around since Hecker, smokey days when he? Could take team. He gets to enter this other phase of his career, but he's so talented. He's I think he's GonNa pull it off and I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Anything else air match. Eric Are you muted now? You're muted now you're on. Their. Joshua anything else. Yeah. Just real quick I want to inoculate you against some. Fan comments later with two quick corrections it's twenty eight days later on them on the movie in Conrad's Convenient Chin is star cast. Oh okay. Good. From the Department of Corrections thank. You. Of course. Yes. In Two thousand twelve and exte- transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand UC today on the torch VIP podcast annex exte- eight years back. We'll be taking a weekly look at this page in. Early, history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom style from WT talks next every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track teas rising talents. Why did or didn't work out exclusively for W TORCH VIP members. Parts of will wrap up I. Think we've got everything but the main event. And John. Jeff. We tipped our hand a little bit earlier. About the MGM is a he'll challenger. To Jon Moxley on a marquee show like all out I have contended and I think it's Played Out the way that I expected that Angie. I've just seeming a not short of being ready to be taken seriously as a threat to Moxley on a storyline level on a Meta level. As a performer even. Super talented. It was just two years ago I went to in India, show the night before all in and Psalm perform and he for the first time in he was great and it's like, wow in but I don't know that. I think he's super valuable part of Awa. But it just doesn't feel like even with a record he's had they showed us that he was vicious and we weren't quite sure. Is he the sidekick to a bad ass? WHO's a mouthpiece in annoying and sells or is he the bad ass who has a bodyguard and he kicks ass and and as a threat to the very best wrestlers in the company Judge, where were you when this started and and where are you now in terms of has helped her to Jeff has he has he earned his way into the spa was a late surge last night. Yeah. Kind of talk about the aspect of him as the Challenger. I am a huge believer in. The upcoming trajectory, of M., F., as a he'll I think he is So super talented I don't think he's there yet You know we talked a little bit at the top of the show. Don't think he's built up into a credible challenger for. For for Moxley and I don't think that's completely his full. Any part of it is the sort of the bill and treatment that Moxley's been given is he is super powered in right now but I do think I I agree with you know everyone every commentator that is going to be an absolute superstar and I just don't think I don't think it's there yet. I Eric Sandia. They protected him J s you know I don't. Think he's eaten a pin in Awa yet yeah certainly not the singles match. He is old school through and through he is in eighties. Throwback clearly looks to the eighties for his inspiration and his promos and probably the nineties and two thousands to. But. He's eighty throwback guy in the ring I. There's nothing. He's he's a decent worker. I mean I thought his match with jungle boy was very enjoyable and very good but he's not He's not a consistent four, five star Guy Right. He's maybe a consistent three three and a half four star at the at the high end type of guy depending on he's in there with and so Moore punching and kicking and sort of old school cocky. He'll row Roddy Piper asked which it seems to be who is patterned after a lot of ways. He'll You know. Maybe it's because ideal with politics dealt with politicians for most of my twenty, six year journalism career but I can't roll my eyes the whole. Campaign, Gimmick that he was doing, it had its moments but you know it was those people just existed as props to DEB njs pick on them for various things and it it did built heat. But it was kind of this abrupt shift out of nowhere and I wonder if the M J F took on cody and didn't wasn't didn't have you know had wardlow but he didn't have. All this other. Brass band type stuff going on and entourage of would have been more effective in this build people you know. Your average person doesn't really feel like dealing with politics. Right they're not huge fans politicians so Might might have been off putting and the and then so let's get to. Moxley. He sort of in his promos he's like. He's like, Paul, was with brock listener he doesn't quite say that's not a. Prediction it's a spoiler, but he says what? He's GonNa do and then he goes out and. It's it's great. I mean, I guess maybe the can't use the paradigm shift. So maybe that creates a little mystery, but then he gives like. Not. Thinking about wasting. Show self-awareness to take in the paradigm shift away it's it's meant to sort of send a message of. Well, there's an excuse is a Meta thing. There's an excuse if Moxley loses and then he'll get a rematch and he'll get to use a paradigm shift in win but I don't think that's enough and I think it also just sort of it could have backfired in the sense that that stipulation made it seem like I'm jeff isn't actually at Max's level and needed to finagle his way into getting an unfair advantage you know to start which might have played into the perception of Jeff is not at Moxley's level yet and actually reinforced it more than offset. Yeah. That was the risk. I'm sure the intent that they had was to to build. He'll heat on him. Right? He took away Moxley's move because he outmaneuver. Him or whatever at the end of the day though this is the pay per view main event and it's it's one of a couple of matches probably. Matches that you're going to hit the button, hit that pay button and take fifty dollars out of your eye credits or however it is. You'RE GONNA. Watch it I. Liked njs finally did the class you know like this neckbrace Gimmick. So many weeks with it, and then he finally they find dated off, right did the beatdown savage beat down with blood of mocks and now you WanNa see Marx, get revenge do is a Fan WanNa see 'em j his butt kicked. Yes i. do he busted him open and mocks needs to get his revenge man I wanna see the he'll get his get his come up and and. That's very basic basic works. That you know that's a sign of a having the right guy on top and slotted right and confident is Moxley cutting a straightforward promo, you're not trying to talk for twelve minutes in the ring. You're not adding a bunch of extra stuff. You're not having writers come up with a ton of extra jokes or facebook thing. I'm sorry photoshop things for you. You're just going out. There and just I mean what Moxley did works in any era when you're over when you know who you are in the fans like you, you just lined up the hills and it's just what you said. Eric Lineup who fans want to see the baby's face, and even if you think the baby is going to win, you still want to be there to see it because. You know whether it's because he wants to Bobby Heenan? Whoever is managing Hogan or or or if you think there's a threat to Hogan but you still want to win it worked for Hogan it worked for Bruno on and on I mean. So this is a winning formula. And just let him up in that that gets to my next question for both of you which is. Beyond this and we'll wrap up with this point. Should Moxley not only retain the title but just keep the title you know like? Wind up the heels and that should be the focus of aws should be building up of conveyor belt of heels for Moxley every one to three months to knock down, and then you set the next pinup in you you build them up and then you knock him down and keep it simple because sometimes if I feel like he was making things more complicated six layers chess as you put it three tic-tac-toe whatever just keep it simple and let us like the rest of you've hired and who are slotted well in our in their prime and if they're baby face, let us cheer them kicking the of the he'll who we wanted to get punched in the face and humiliated. When you do it well so i. I yeah, I would absolutely be okay with that I'm a big fan of long title reigns and I think that the constant changes. All the wwe does nothing but damage not championship, and also my interest in the championship matches. So if that's what they WANNA do they just WanNa, do the conveyor belt a heels that moxley knocks down. That's that's okay with me. And Erica longtime bring for boxing or do you think they should fresh it up sooner with cody or Kenny or man page or someone else? I mean. So we're still in the pandemic. There aren't big crowds and it's a lot easier to go ahead and. Do an upset or order to reset and go to different direction when you have the ws six man, which is the crowds in the reaction and the just the molten heat you get week to week or did pre pandemic who knows it? That's when it's going back to the other way. So why not just stick with Moxley and and write it until ride that study hand the thing that makes sense third the Awa on top at least starting with Jericho and then transitioning February they're not swerving the the smart barks like wwe they don't feel they have to get one over in swerve at sake swerving and it's very gratuitous frustrating. As a fan So yes, sure. Light up another he'll is that is that you know they've done that to great effect with Moxley already. Do you know in Cody Lance Archer right? They bring in a new big monster in. Cody. You're Moxley. Has Slade the dragon they did with Brian Cage they could do it. You know rousseff debuts and wins the battle royal. They've got a that that six weeks from this pay per view and six weeks before the next pay-per-view November, you've got that sort of mid term big show Papa rating opponent lineup or whoever whoever was I guess you could do that was so yeah I I think that's the way to go as you suggest with. All right so Just overall prediction we all agree Moxley's beating I'm jeff and that's what they should do Joshua. Absolutely an. A Monday Yup are cool anything else that you want to bring up about the show that I didn't bring up Eric I. They seem to be building like a whole last night. They had this complicated graphic. That was hard to follow it like kind of like when they're doing the NCAA tournament and there's all these different games on different stations and they do graphics, you're trying to figure out what's going on, but they seem to have this whole series of there's dark on Friday, and then there's the something on TNT preview the show. Then there's two different red carpet ceremonies ones on youtube and ones on TNT or I think. It was all confusing and hard to follow, but they seem to be trying to. Create the idea that this is a big event through that kind of thing. So I'm interested to see how all that comes together and how it all works there. Video packages are are really great and Anyone's GonNa. BE TUNING IN TNT necessarily at four thirty or whatever. It is five thirty eastern on a Saturday to watch it but. Maybe, they'll get a few more or less second buys I do wonder does. Will Tony Kahn make a decision on whether to stay with Mosley's championed depending on what the by rate is right we're fully in the pandemic some people aren't going to be able to afford the fifty dollars and You can't you know all all on the other hand I. Guess you see a little bit of a bump because people can't gather in groups as much as the. Bars. So I don't know maybe gets a bump from that but Tony Kahn that Kinda Guy Hey mocks we're down to seventy five thousand buys we're going to go as you know, we know that you're dropping the title of the next show although that that's more on 'em j. off in Jericho in a cassidy in a Gimmick Matt you can. You can pick and choose who you blame. They would need some further evidence that that it was Moxie for that to be justified but they're looking for an excuse that would be it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just throw that out there looking at. And Josh winning closing from you. Yeah I. Think you know just talking with you guys has gotten me more hype. than. Specifically Eric bringing up you know Mgm in Ring Style I think watching how that interacts with Moxley's much harder hitting. Style I think might elevate MGM. Anticipating and I'm I'm looking forward to that and I. Don't think that they changed the booking based on the buyer eight I. I. would hope that they don't and Yeah I. Think. I think this is going to be a real passable pay per view I. Don't think I will feel ripped off. All right thanks guys so much for the conversation Cool Do. Introduce you Joshua to the podcast audience. We'll have to do this again. Yeah. Thanks great being here and Eric Overall the right off comments I'll. I'll invite you too. Thanks, Wade. I'll take her guys. So now we're GONNA move to the media conference. Call US noted in our introduction earlier this is Tony Cahn talking to wrestling media earlier today POW torch columnist, Sean radical who you heard on Tuesdays flagship show. I hope we talked about a large swath of issues in professional wrestling, wwe wwl new Japan, and otherwise. He was with me on Tuesday, he also joined the conference call and took part in it. So I enjoy this a free willing conversation with wrestling media and Tony Kahn talking about eighty w all out. Here we go. Thank you for joining us this Saturday night aws broadcast second edition of all out of Daly's placing MCA in Jacksonville. Florida. which shaving edge be one of the biggest shows of the year we had three world championship titles online. Twenty one man Casino Battle Royale is well some wildly entertaining match ups across the Board is lots of cover today We have about forty five minutes or so let's dispense with opening remarks and Tony's ready to go. So when you go at school right away to the lines and Robin appeared on the line to Kennedy McIntosh inside the Robes Try It. He has gone. Very well, Kenny great to hear from you. Thank you thanks. Really, appreciate what obey excited all this Saturday I wanted to ask you maybe it's a controversial question. Know the and Kris tschetter had said he would walk. We can. He didn't really think the the F. T. W. Bail meant not much day W so far. As, to your comments and obviously there's three males single titles and what would you expect coming up with their w say to get a more. That w title be treated totally differently than the other titles I'm really glad you asked that Kenny I'm working on a pilot, and it's a different kind of a project than the way you see in wrestling titles defended traditionally and it's very different from obviously how we use the world heavyweight title and the title. So they ain't heavy world title and the TNT Title I've. been treated very, very important titles and I I really really feel great about both those belt in their champions and Twu. You know title and Brian Cage I feel good about you. But we haven't totally established a yet and to be honest our plans for the F. D. W. Title There's a lot in store and I'm excited about it. So I'm glad you asked. Thanks Kenny. Thanks Kenny net sell. I'M GONNA call on Bill Pritchard from Russell their. Tony How are you? I'm well-built banked man. It's great to hear from you. So I wanted to get your opinion on the response to the tooth and nail match so far I know some people online where less than thrilled that it's going to be on the buying. So you have any common just to reassure fans or make them realize that this is an opportunity for them and for more people to see the all out Abe review and it's not really a demotion. That's absolutely true. I've always felt that way and we put from the first pay per view did nothing we put some of our biggest stars including hangman and Mj F on the Buyin and the idea of it the reason it's called the buy and it's because we try and put exciting south on this I. You know our the show so that people will pay to see the whole show I love wrestling fans have often said the wrestling is. My favorite economy and it is a strange elastic economy is the only place in the world where you'll have people complaining about getting something for free than they don't have to fifty dollars for and I think that's great because like the prestigious quarterly reviews, it shows how important I think we made getting on the main card but at the same time, this is a great important match bras I'm not I. Think you'll feel a lot more Brit and big. And I'm excited about this. This isn't going to be a traditional wrestling match. The pay per view is going to be very, very wrestling heavy not as story heavy I'm sure we'll talk more on this call about it, but those offically like last night, the second hour was more story based up to get you ready for the pay per view you know similar to what we did. For Revolution We had a very wrestling heavy purse our in Kansas City with Kenny Omega and pack in iron man match and the second hour was more story stop and Chris. Jericho and Jon Moxley did the way in last night it was great wrestling in the first hour and. In the second hour to thought. particularly. Thunder Road Censoring D.. But with Britain soil There's GonNa be be a ton of great wrestling on this card. Their match is going to be a cinematic frankly, and it's GonNa be Great. We're going to have a live crowd there and We thought for the live crowd given the kind of match they're going to have in the situation that this isn't the. The Britain Soul Cana will have great wrestling matches I. think this will be a little bit different, but it's also going to be a lot of fun and it's going to be free for everybody to check out and I think all the great wrestling everybody's GonNa get on the pay per view we'll be worth the money. But it's a great question I. Don't think it affects the status of the magic more about the tone of the match frankly and and also the fact that it's good place man, it's a good advertisement for broad W We. Think. It's going to be a great match and it's going to be going out to a big audience. Right thanks. Thanks Bill LET'S CIRCLE TO CALL ON CONGRESS PC from. Comic. Book Connery there. Connor your line. A. Good. Yemen. Awesome. Hey Tony thank you for doing this. Really appreciate it. Gap. In the past few weeks we have seen NWEA power footage on dynamite. We've heard Billy Corgan Voice, and obviously we've seen Sun Arosa more than a few times and she's got this big match on Saturday. What is the working relationship between a e W and NWEA as it stands right now? The working relationship between a is the extent of the good personal relationship between billy, Corgan and. I've had a good relationship with billy for years long before I got into the wrestling business frankly I'm good friends with criminal engaged. I really believe in Chris Work and I. Think you know the Concussion Legacy Foundation does great work precious come in at my request and spoken to all day W, talent and We have a good relationship with the Concussion Legacy Foundation and Chris my good friend and He introduced me to bill years ago and I went to one abilities billion concerts. He's a very nice guy and I have a lot of respect for billions of musician the. End of you as got great history, they aren't really operating right now I think we're very very different companies in a very different place and I think the end of your way it sounds like they're going to get back to running and I wish billie the best stuff be doing and I thought this would be a good opportunity for them and for us because under roses great and I thought she would be a great challenge for Shida. So it's one of those situations where I thought it would make sense for both sides, which is why I propose it and he agreed and that's why we're doing it. Thanks. How? Good. Question Connor I, and sorry. I didn't mean to. So that's the that's it connor and I I've asked billy about this. I'm not sure what what the future would hold for it, but obviously if thunder Rosa wins the title there could be a lot more and Thunder Rosa and Cheetahs going to be one of the great matches on the card I think under Rosa her first match on dynamite was hit last night and. I'm really excited for the match and so billion I've got a good relationship. If Thunder wins the title you could see obviously more stuff between us but I don't have any plans to you than anybody else from the NWEA although some of our star wrestlers have been there you know with. Eddie Kingston Ricky Starkman Cochabamba. So good. It's a good question, but besides thunder rose or not really talking about using anybody else from there. But again, Thunder Rosa by the weekend could be our champion and it's quite possible. So I would stay tuned on that. Thanks Tony and thanks conor We we asked We invite everyone to submit questions also online, and we have a number of them twenty lake to read when now to you from Darren Paul twits a freelancer and his question is unlike other wrestling companies aws managed to keep people surprise most of the surprise appearances been kept secret even when pre tate, there's a lot of work go into that or is it that people don't get hired less really know or a really show trustworthiness I think it's a bit of both we work really hard at it. We keep a small circle. We're a small company at the family business, a small company, and we're startup and we'd grown so quickly worldwide but frankly even though we're the second biggest wrestling company in the world we're not the biggest machine we're not the biggest. The there's not so many people that spoiled surprise because I think the more people that are in on it the more likely it is, and we really benefit that we got a lot of great trustworthy people in our front office and I keep things very close to the vest. Frankly. But the people I do talk to I, really trust and the people we bring in have been really trustworthy. So I think it's been a really positive thing for us and we've we've tried to keep these. Surprises the surprise, and frankly we have a lot more ahead for you in the coming weeks. Adam excited about things, things that are coming. So I really respect the Java our team done and the rare times things have come out I don't think they were from people in our core organization It's funny Chris I think at one point eluded Jerko alluded to somebody he thought mentioned something. Show and I think he was right and I don't think that was a person that works here But generally when we've tried to keep surprises, we've kept him in the family and we have we have a great family here. And task. Thanks for that. Darren. In Two thousand twelve and exte- transitioned into developmental system, and ultimately the brand. You see today on the torch VIP podcast, INEX- T eight years back we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in annexed east early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Style from P WT talks annex t every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track exte- rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for W TORTURE VIP members. Wines back up and and go to. Nick housman wrestling. Inc. Nikki. I am hearing. Hi. Tony, thank you so much for taking the time today. How's the weather in Chicago sorry for asking that and we've seen everyone's time all add that time back on the end like football match. The northbound yesterday, and it was a beautiful eighty, two degrees I watched the turtles in the DACHSHUND. It was really it was. Up in their buddy, it was wonderful. It's been a while I haven't been home up there in a long time. Since Revolution, revolution. Back we'll go to a hair salon and a bar it'll be wonderful. What's. Up. Tony my question is pretty straightforward I know you love when you get to ask about free agents. It's like your favorite thing, but there's a big one out there right now brock listener have you talked to brock? Do you have interest in brock? All. The speculation that he could possibly find his way into a W. I can't comment on that at the time neck but I've enjoyed brock's work for many years He's a great fighter in a great rattler I, don't think people talk enough about what a great worker brock leather and and one of the great work and big men. I've ever seen one of the great athletes in the history, the wrestling business and I have so much respect for him but Yeah. I couldn't comment on that neck but I appreciate you asking. Thanks neck Question came into the online Tony for you from John. Corrigan, from the wrestling. Estate. With all the highs and lows of. Tenure so far what has been the biggest lesson you've learned as ahead of pro wrestling. Company. It's a great question laugh as he's a really good example. Honestly, there's Times. Where The red light goes on and it's seven, fifty, nine, fifty, nine and a eight o'clock show clicks on and you should have realized something sooner. But literally, it doesn't occur to you until you're there and the chair and that was me laugh I and there's times where it's going to be like that then and frankly. I know at night. There was a there was a lotta great wrestling in the first hour and I put a lot of responsibility on thunder Rosa and Serena to have this strong wrestling match and the second hour and I thought they nailed it and they were put in a showcase position in the semi final and they nailed it and but I kind of knew we were putting lot on. Them and thankfully they hit a home run breast but in the first hour like I said in, Kansas? City in the first hour last night in the go home shows, my philosophy has been put a lot of wrestling. They're put a lot of stories off in the second half now in Kansas City some of the stories you got in the second half, the way and with Jericho and Moxley with. This big crowd and Kansas City they loved it. You've got the Orange Cassidy's coming out and challenging pack in the show would make that matches a lot of fun stuff last night Frankly I understood that like if people wanna see a lotta wrestling in the show forty, eight weeks a year. That's all I think about his wrestling wrestling wrestling. Four Times a year when we have these huge huge pay-per-view cards, they that week become the priority goal shows I treat them differently. Highs and lows and the lessons. I've learned every week I learned a new US and the pandemic has been lesson afterlife, and after lesson I try to learn things and not do them again, and if I make a mistake twice that I'm definitely try not to make it three times The highs and lows Julie the same thing it's just like learning and and trying to put together good shows. I have a feeling that this weekend is going to be one of the great highs I look back at revolution is probably a high point for us and then I just think like that day was a perfect day for me I had met with a lot of people I've been with orange cassidy impact talking separately a very late talking about things that I wanted to see tomorrow and I'd been with John McCain Chris Jericho very very late separately talking about things that were going to happen without and I ended up getting very. Little Sleep we played early in the morning of Fulham One When I say we've I mean follow him form this match I didn't get a lot of sleep and then when over straight to the arena and we had revolution and made the best thing we've ever done it was just the perfect day I would call the ultimate high for it was. Also, the culmination of learning a lot elections since then the wrestling business has changed dramatically last year, we were the number one company and attendance per show in the world of wrestling and this year. It's not really about trying to put fans into arenas. The the Fossey the businesses changed completely in the last six months and I feel like we've tried to roll with. The punches this weekend is going to be one of the is this weekend I can't tell you how excited I am for Saturday I held back in the second hour last night too much maybe because I wanted you to really anticipate the wrestling on this show because the main card on Saturday Belda bell is going to be the best wrestling you've seen since the pandemic furthermore. I hate that it's come to this I. Hate this what we have to do by views analogy privately and publicly and I'm sorry to give a long answer, the highs and lows. There's a lot of answers to pining lows and a lot of things I can talk about and I'll say this like the pandemic has been the the the best example of this there've been such highs and lows in the pandemic. Trying to do great things to come back and do double or nothing, and do that. I thought double or nothing was like the bastion of ingenuity to be able to sit back and it's like, okay you know with what we have how can do a great pay per view I thought and I'm sorry. I. Just be honest. We were both operating in the pandemic I tested everybody coming in. This might be the pull out quote of the press conference but I'M GonNa. Say I thought double or nothing kick the crap Outta. WRESTLEMAINIA. It was a much better pay per view We were both operating under difficult circumstances. I think ours we were fortunate. It was a little bit later in the pandemic and we had implemented testing and we're doing testing at that time. But when we did nothing, we were still the only ones doing testing. So it wasn't like it. You know we we had a good testing plan at that point. And well, we came out with and did that point at the to set up a bubble and do that pay per view I was so proud of it. We've come a long way and double or nothing if you were. If you. WanNa see a show with wrestling band in a packed arena. I can't give that to you right now. But what what what I can give you and I've talked a lot about in the last week or two has been. A drive in movie theater I know everybody wants to go back to the movies and goes me at least I. DO I used to go to the movies all the time since I was a kid and and you know it's one of my releases and I haven't obviously been able to go to the cinema and a really long time but the drive in movie is A. Way To, go with your friends and family and feel safe and do the same thing used to do before, which is go see a new movie together and and you know in a kind of a captive experience where everyone is not going to be in their phones and and paying attention to the movie on the big screen and I I can't offer you that cinema but I. Drive in movie, and that's how I feel about what we're doing the live events and it's one of the great high for me and two feet allied crowd Chris Jericho described it as one of the great highs of his thirty years storybook career last week having that crowd back we're going go we're gonNA. We're. GonNa go and. We've got a lot of unallocated space we didn't use, but we didn't want to stretch the security personnel, the people stabbed dailies, blades, and the aid of your team to have done such an amazing job on this and and we're going to go a little bit closer to fifteen percent for all out, and again, I compared to the drive in movie theater I. Think this is ninety nine. Over ninety nine percent safer than the experience of packing people into an arena. I think that is the only way to do why that wrestling shows right now is outdoor Socially distant feeding pods, fans and protective mass and having people around not to not to be a jerk about it but just to remind people, Hey, please don't get out of your pod and go hang out with the people in the other pods and please keep your masks don when you're not shipping drank or eating your pretzel or you know so we've we've had that and this weekend will be I. Believe one of the all-time highs in the company when you look at the card which you know I think now we can hope we spend more time talking about and I rather than me giving you this long winded answer I just. I'm really excited for it. I think Saturday all out It's going to be a lot different than all out last year but I wouldn't have it any other way for situation or in the people I'm with please if you ever like aws show checkout all out this weekend because I think it will be. Our strongest Banks for putting up with that. Sorry. Now, through Patriae, you can get the weight keller pro wrestling Poe shows Wade Keller progressing podcasts and the POW torch daily casts with the ads plugs removed and VIP after shows by supporting us on patron with a tier one membership for just four dollars ninety nine cents per month you can also upgrade to get additional bonus content including VIP podcasts and the people in your torch newsletters through patriotic checkout details that patriotic dot com slash P W torch VIP that's Patriae on dot com slash pw torch V. I. P.. Go back to the live lines. John Oliver from spectrum sports. John or are you there Yes, I am Tony Thank you for taking the call I appreciate. piggybacking off of what you said about the Kobe particles at what point did you guys decide that you were going to let fans in and what was the process like in determining what the L. Protocols look like? Came up with this idea of I wanted to do. Anything I could. To to start looking at Safeway eventually when we've got, you know first of all first and foremost with the testing plan, we shut the company down in April until we could come up with a way to make it safe to do shows the rustlers again. So we did that and my my number one priority at am be our wrestler health and safety and fan health and safety. So we came in and it's like I to wrestling show. We need to make sure we can do this and keep the wrestlers. And the crew and staff save. So implemented a testing plan and we returned at the beginning of May with alive show and and have been doing this. Would you know testing and had great results which really shows that the people have been doing the right things and social distancing because we've had I think you know people have come in and we've had very very few positive cases and we do rigorous testing Once we got that implemented I, started to look at how we could utilize our outdoor space. To safely have some kind of live event experience and we'd been we'd been putting tested people. You know fans at ringside but they weren't really fans they were wrestlers crew staff, but it added a sense a normal see you probably heard me say if I now that I got this idea from watching the tonight show and they had the crew in the studio and I, would you know going back during the first week in the pandemic looking at how shows were handling it? That was the most greatest thing? I've seen and. then. How can I kind of? Take that and replicate it. How can we do this? Well, daily plays has three levels and is a really big outdoor space Eventually we had had, you know the staff kind of spaced out in the bowl and I started to wonder about the top two balls there. There's not a bad seat in the house as far as the stuff with allocated I mean we you know there's great views and it's You know my first thought was. Is it for Egress for getting people into the building temperature testing all the the things you need to do the the things I never thought of that are marketing staff put together like the pickup of the You know when people have ordered items online for. You know shop w they're able to pick them up which I never even thought of how we get through that or the concession lines and the creative thought and ingenuity that our team put into it We've spent the last several months working on it, and then we did kind of soft open. We invited some staff and some sponsors and local friend to come and sit up there and You know the temperature has all the stuff we're doing. Now for them is kind of off open we slowly started to. Hire more security personnel then a week before we went live with fans we had done again kind of a soft open. We'd brought insecurity and I think you saw some of those videos maybe some you guys had posted online a what we were doing before. We actually started selling tickets just to kind of get ready to train security personnel to remind people to stand there pods and and keep your mass on or You know not too many people going into the bathrooms at once and It's it's been. A process that you know it felt slow because everyone was anxious to have the fans back but I think it was right to be cautious and and now we got a process that has worked really well, we think and hopefully for all out. You'll pay off with this with his great crowd of you know, seven hundred people and fifty people it. However, it comes out exactly. It's going to be the hottest biggest crowd ruffling a long time and the most important thing is that it'll be safe crowd. Thanks are asking about it. Thanks John. Con Jim Barcelona from the my in Miami Herald. AGEM. Okay. All right. Good. Okay. Now you can hear me great eight. Thank you so much. y'All I'm curious because you mentioned thunder Rosa and Serena Deep I'm wondering about Serena Deeb and women's division in general and might we be seeing more serene on the show and just yet a great women's Tag Team Cup tournament that was just amazing. What are your thoughts division these days and also about Serena and bank you. Don't sure thank you Well, we've been bringing in more talent some of our best wrestlers in the division including our first champion Rio have been trapped outside the US because of the pandemic Yukitaka Sake also, one of our top wrestlers and so not having them we've been looking to bring in more talent and Thunder Rosa challenging sheet up for the championship. And and now thunder Rosa being positioned here with a chance to be a top wrestler and maybe even the base of our women's division, and then you've got a three hundred who many of us are familiar with from a work in the straight. Edge. Society for WWE and I hadn't seen Serena in a long time. I. Heard she had been looking really. Good. In the ring and she came in and I thought she was really impressive and she got frankly rave reviews and love to have Serena back and again fundraiser versus Shida were very excited about on Saturday at all out and that's why we've been looking to expand and bring more talent in the women's Tag Team Cup we brought in more talent K.. Conti An- Anna. J were good team and now the dark orders been recruiting take on the and we think could be interesting to see where that goes. So yeah because of the pandemic we thought we had some very good women wrestlers that were really important part of the division and with them not being here. Hopefully, they'll be back soon and that's why we've. Looked to bring in some new talent I think have really done well especially in recent weeks. Thanks for joining US Jim Nets. Stab is amy. Jim If I can provoke gyms is real quick Jim if it's okay, you know again i. am really proud of them. I'm proud of under oath answering because we put them in a big position in the semi be the strongest wrestling match in the second hour and they did it and they hit a home run where the other matches are more. You're setting up stories for all out because all out like I said, even you know four weeks a year I believe quarterly pay per views will really frankly you know beat the audience over the head over this especially in the second hour with all out. But it's for a reason because I want you to know that this Saturday we're going to do something really really special I'm it. I'm so excited about it, but I'm really proud of a thunder Serena because they they hit a home run in the second hour. Thanks for asking you about that because I thought they were they were great. Okay I'm amy made for me calling you emmy year. Are you there? Yes Hi. Can you hear me yeah? So this question is for Tony. What's it like being a wrestling fan who's now in charge of one of the biggest wrestling companies in the world? Are you still a fan? Has it changed your relationship with wrestling at all as you've worked through the last year and a half? Yet it changed my relationship wrestling immensely It's one of my favorite things in the world I learned so much on the job and that's what I was talking about last night you sit down in the chair and you realize things sometimes you you'd pay things differently or do things differently I've been through some of the most hectic situations in my life but it's one of my favorite things and I am so happy to be have surreal moments all the time like. Any time I do a podcast or anything with Tony Shivani you know I look over and I think it's ridiculous. The you know Tony Shivani who I've been listening to you my wife I worked closely with You know whether it's producing him on the show or on this podcast or in post production Tony does all this great work it makes me so happy when I think back to Tony Shivani, telling the story you know I've listened to his podcast before was Awa before I knew I was starting aws and He talk about how you know he had her debts in the wrestling business in one of his great regrets was leaving the WWF. And he had this job that was a pretty good job and he left it to go back to WCW, you re thought he made a mistake and parts of the job you really like he really liked working at coliseum video you liked being producer and you doing the announcing but I don't think. I think the most organized he'd ever seen the operation in terms of production in terms of producing the announcers and what they were looking for was probably the WWF and I don't think they had as much structure in WCW I. Hope in strive to be somewhere in between where we're not overproducing the announcers but I do feel like I've got a really good working beat with all the announcers and I bring. Tony specifically because throughout the year he's been with us and even through the darkest days of. The pandemic through the shutdown. When we ran about your tape shows in April and got altogether in a marathon. Tony was such a workhorse in post production, and so I I bring him up not exclusively I had these experiences all the time as I said in guerrilla with Demoing Winco and Jerry Lynn working through the matches, but I also don't really have any time to think about it because it's so hectic and crazy. But every day you know I share you know an office and a meetings base with. Chris Jericho or hardy, pretty surreal and think that Chris Jericho Mao. Hardy. are going to be in very, very prominent matches on all out. makes me really smile but I also can't really be biased or think of it that way and so yeah, it's it's crazy I'm really really excited for this weekend and and things like all out and. Shows like all out are what gets me going I'm also really excited for this whole week because I know that the the dynamite after all out is going to be really really good. I can't tell you guys everything about it yet because you're going to have to see the pay per view and see what happens on the pay per view and And you know there'll be some fun surprised this whole next week I'm really really excited about and as that's as a fan and also as what I do professionally that this is one of my great love is my great love Thanks for asking. Tony. Ask a question on behalf for ballots McCarthy from talksport who wrote in. Alex's question is how is picking up new talent like MTR effected the long term booking they've often or off spoken about have you enjoyed the challenge of pivoting? I have have it been crazy like when we've added people do have to change plans and at the same time, there's some people that come in and they make it very easy for you to change your plans and when you get top talent FDR, who are one of the best teams if not, the best tag team in the world they fit in your plans like you know it's like you'd fits like a glove when you want to have the tag team division in the world, you can't go wrong when you signed. Arguably. The best tag team, the world and pair pair them in a division with a lot of the other candidates. The best tag team in the world including Kenny hang in including the box I thought Kenny and hangman in the box set the standard for American tag team wrestling this year and Prevail. Going back, pretty pretty long time with their match it revolution and FDR versus Kenyan hangman now BAFTA try and said that reach at Bar, and I'm excited to see if they can live up to it but I also think there's a great chance they can and as far as bringing other new people in pivoting I really. Appreciate you asking this because. I never thought we'd be in a situation was kind of a dream situation in terms of being able to like hone your craft being in Atlanta with. You know less than thirty percent of your roster and trying to put together shows and having to make sense and not knowing whether you're doing for shows five, show their six or how long it's going to be the you need to stretch these tapes and all the things you need to think of to get through that that we got through the month of April is like you know if ever you can pivot around and make it work and piece together show and then come out stronger and and do really well in May and and I was so worried about double or nothing. And how we were going to do double or nothing and make it a great show and we did. So if ever there, then you know questions about how to get people in and pivot your ideas when you sign new people or people are the flipside frankly man is it that much harder when people aren't there you know by going to fight for the fall and when we had some changes to fighter fast wasn't exactly as we were originally thinking of doing it but it worked out incredibly well, I thought under the circumstances and all the shows did really good numbers So Yeah it's it's fun but it's a lot easier when you have to pivot 'cause you sign great new talent like FDR opposing when you have to pivot because you know people aren't available pandemic. So I think we're we've had unique experiences that have helped us helped us do it there's an expression I saw somebody us on twitter. This is very anecdotal and I hope. I hope it's it's OK somebody used the expression. The Kovin Push I was like man that is a harsh expression, but it is frankly a thing that in the pandemic when based on availability, there are people that have really stepped up and that that's what they got and there are people that made the most of it not just not just in of you also in wb any places that have been wrestling now new Japan's backup and you push people got and we're seeing people trying to be creative and do the best they can with what the got. I thought double or nothing with a hand we rebel and what what we had to build it up, and then coming back may six, and then we'd already Kinda put in the first layer of the house and foundation setting up cody vers, Lance Archer and the TNT tournament, and then implementing other stories and reintegrating some of the people you only seen on video packages or promos for like the past five or six weeks That was a challenge donate double nothing. So anyway for all out and point being now that we have this great roster, I thought was hard to get you that Card to me when you look at the matches on this, I think. Having live fans. A chance to be a really really special pay per view and It wasn't. As daunting attached to get this car together in a lot of ways. All right. Thanks Johnny. Go back to the lines now Sean Rattigan from pwi torch. Johnny there. Yeah Hi? Tony. How are you? I'm really I'm a great sean at great to hear from you. Good to talk to you Adequate question. What is your thought process behind putting together the card for all out this year I know earlier you talked a little bit of putting on. Cinematic experience fans. Because of the pandemic and what's going on for people watching at home, but a lot of stipulation matches up and down the card did the pandemic influence, any of that thought process? There are stipulation on the buying, and that's one of the reasons why I I think having the Senate v cinematic because it's not really the show is not going to be cinematic I think the live event experience this is going to be it's not going to be a packed or arena full of fans, but there's bands here safely distance in and it's going to be a live show with end and putting the cinematic match on the pre show because that's the you know the reasons we needed to do it and it was the tone and the situation, and frankly this is brick way. Is Not like a work injury. It's not like J. F. Neck like. CAD. And broken nose So with fractured her leg and her nose injury like gave her some some time off, and this is the first time bridge come back and done anything physical last night when she attacked all with the first time Donna physical wrestling. Activity in a long time and I'm really excited for this match but there's a lot of reasons why I think it's the right reason to do it cinematic frankly, and for the people asking I. think that's why for the wrestling show, there are some stipulation match but also just a lot of great wrestling and I think when you look at it bell to Bell even though there's there's going to be obviously Mimosa Ma'am I think it'll be a great match, Chris Cassidy have had a few great straight wrestling matches on television now and really great example of of chain wrestling and and and the art of the comeback. This'll be the most fans they worked in front of, and this is going to be a great match Malady and Sammy is the broken rolled Beckley at the last man standing user leave town match that applies to map and Madden Sammy had had great viewed. There's a great story that Jammie Want Matt Out of AWS. Mad Been Aws he's mostly tormented him and vice versa. So FANNIES UNORIGINAL INDIRA really wrestled the first ever singles match W he wrestle the first ever match on dynamite and you know he's wrestling now in our first last man standing match he was in her first tables, match and This is going to be a lot of fun and if you look at the rest of the card, you gotTa Casino Battle Royale which also Involving, a lot of people on the card, but I think will be frankly a great example of how far the roster's comes since our first show because I think this casino battle royale now that we have been depth of roster, we'll see a lot more time and it. You'll see the roster's come a long long long way who's in this one versus where we were with the first 'cause you know a royal, we had some great people in it with Mj F. and hangman establish some new talent like Orange Cassidy in it and There were a lot of people who? Probably were not the level rate that are going to be in this one, and then I'd like to just go down the rest of the car because I feel like, Sean there's so much good bell to bell wrestling, and for a person just wants to see great wrestling matches when you look at young bucks versus draft express who to. Top teams and they're both in the top five and I. Think we really believe in tag team wrestling and it's like a title eliminator and you have your boxing because they're both highly ranked in the winner of the match will be better positioned for championship match with the winner of hangman and Kenny Rogers Deduct Tiahrt. Another great wrestling match that we'd be thankful have a chance to steal the show sheet. Evers is under Rosa very excited for this as a bell to bell wrestling match again and then of course, Moxley present J. F. will be i. think a really really strong. Leslie match on this car and I think you know when you look at that That that has a chance to really be a great chance to establish whether it's going to be John's run of dominance or whether it's going to be that Max is the future of this company and frankly I think it's both I think John did such a great run as champion by also think Max is arguably the future of this company and I'm really excited for everybody to see what we're GonNa do here and our been how this match is. GonNa go I'm really excited for both of them because I think as far as like a big fight. Feel that has it to me I'm I'm really excited for their match and I think I'm really excited to see. How people come out of this with the show there's also the eight man tag and I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I thought how Brodie Lee won the championship wars are very, very, very strong moment for us and got a big response and shocked a lot of people the dark order again like like what? I. Said with the Battle Royale I think as an organization is a is a group. He'll. They've come very far from where they were last year and Brodie Lee has a chance to be a great GMT champion. I? Think the TNT championship means more in our company than. Other titles out of the world title in other wrestling companies. If that makes sense, there's a reason they're TNC champion. We have been meteorology ship that's means so much to us. It's our prime source of revenue is our prime stories of exposure other than these huge quarterly reviews that we build to like all out and berries great champ for us and this you know this match he's got, which is a lot of moving parts in the situation that the the baby-faced group with does not came out to support cody and then a couple of cody's friends, Scorpio. Sky? and Mac, Cardona. An outsider you know showing up I think that has a chance to be a great match to, and anytime I can see Dustin Rhodes wrestling on pay per view I. I'm always happy to see that since I was a small kid and Cochabamba and the dark order it's been a great story. So I think there's a lotta great wrestling on the show nothing. I'm more excited about than Nj apertures Moxley for the championship but really all the championship matches and that eight man tag in bucks versus Draft Express I. Think they're all. Strong wrestling matches without really the reliance on the stipulations you're talking about Sean although there are a few magic on the car that that have them I. Think you'll see there's going to be a lotta great rustling men. Thanks. So he got time for a few more I got. If, you'd like to hear this show without ads and plugs interrupting. There's one thing you can do right now to make that happen and that has become a POW torch VIP member. He got about a dozen other podcasts the week that I host that our VIP exclusive and you'll get the way Taylor Po shows and podcast during the week with the ads and plugs removed all on a separate feed exclusively for VIP members plus tons of other podcasts that are VIP exclusive to our full archives of podcasts dating back to two thousand four, which includes post pay-per-view roundtables dating back to two thousand. Four, also, access to our full archives, thousands of podcasts over fifteen hundred back issues of pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter that started it all add score website and more checkup full details at W. Torch VIP, Info Dot Com that's W. Torch VIP Info Dot Com to get full details and then jumped sign up form it's mobile friendly desktop friendly in two minutes you can be a VIP member show support for us and we'll give you a lot of return including a streamlined listening experience on your iphone or android device with the ADS unplug removed go check it out VW torch. VIP INFO DOT COM. Next line. Here. Is Mike Johnson from PW insider. Mike. And Mike. How are you? Tony, good to talk to you sir. Ron You brought up the relationship with TNT one or media. What's the status of the second eighty W series coming to? Is it still going to be envisioned as W dark the way it was mentioned a while though I lee and how has the relationship between the two sides changed if at all with all the shuffling within Warner media. Tried to thanks for asking Mike, it's great and I'm glad you asked It's funny because I have I speak to them a lot and and they've actually had attached to him from top executives at Warner because we talk so much about promoting the show and about idea actually tactic while on this call you guys and It's a great relationship and like I said, it is the Whitewater of our company. Your media partnership and Kevin at the time. When he was saying dark, that was not accurate we were not going to bring dark is the third hour and and we communicated that but it was a miscommunication I think Kevin Misunderstood, some of the material dark was doing very very well and I think he's doing very very, well dark actually risen since this conversation we had with Kevin. But that we would do a totally different third hour and keep dark on Youtube, and that is still the plan and that show will be launched. In the next year I don't have an exact date, I can promise you. It will be the next year but I don't know exactly when and there's a lot of work that's go into it. That still needs to be done in terms of market testing You know there's a lot a lot goes into launching a show and before it will go on network television we'll. We'll have to do all that work and I think frankly. As far as going in and doing that market research and putting together a launch plan, the pandemic sidetrack is on that and made it more difficult and as far as people developing new shows and working on them. A lot of shows have been slowed down. We've been really fortunate that w dynamite has been on through the pandemic and done really really well, and has consistently been around the in around the top ten shows and that was our goal and their goal for us and I. Don't know exactly when but as things are starting to hopefully get more and more normal and his hopefully the country keeps. Trending in a better direction hopefully in terms of going back. To work. We'll be will be definitely watching the show soon, I don't know the exact date them. And then as far as a relationship to your question which. You asked yet. I'm very fortunate that I that I met Kevin I'm glad you give me a chance to say this and that on the call can address it because without. Kevin. Will Not be aid of you quite possibly and I served and I'll say that because even when we got to a point where we didn't have a deal and I wasn't sure the show is going to be on TNT I gotten far enough down the road where I knew I was going to do this. It was a crazy process sometimes I see people say and. It's not a bad thing. It's like as a really important part of our brand and is selling point for what I'm doing this weekend and this is bidding timing that was the two year anniversary of all in now but it's the one year anniversary of all out All in was a hugely important show for the wrestling business I was going to start a wrestling company before all in. All, if I've seen people say that there wouldn't be a w without all in there probably would be w with at all in but I don't know if it would have been the same success was or how would have gone off Jon Moxley had one of the great quotes. When he described meeting me and how it went and how it could have gone and he was like, you know I didn't know him and like you know could he totally screwed it up? Yes. Like that would like this it was like a could have really gotten screwed up but it didn't You know for our relationship Kevin was the guy that for me, he opened a lot of doors when I went to all in. I wanted to see how it went but I knew we'd be doing a lot of our. We'd be adding doing a lot of things and I knew the guys had drawing power and as far as. The show I wanted to see a good show but whether it was good or bad, there's going to be a w and For Kevin. I had gone to Kevin in April. On effectively, a win like those moments again, it just it. Hopefully, it inspires people because like the worst thing people can say to you if you have a dream is no and I know I was in a unique position and bay effectively like born on third base, really and This was my I'm sorry if I was the cliche being bill expression but a tally feel I'm very grateful for the position I was in and then I was able to actively get home on it by going to Kevin and and making an aggressive move telling him I wanted to start a wrestling company and that if he if he was going to be bidding on meteorites wrestling, he should talk to me and I think I even though he knew credibility in the world of sports and we're friends he thought maybe this was completely crazy idea but he humored it but it wasn't like Kevin Jackson Green lighted the show I spent. Almost a year, we'll actually over a year by the time we really got there, but but almost a year before I even had any commitment from them I mean, he put me in at the ground level with all the marketing and media people, and then we got to a point. Where I wasn't sure that the show is going to be on TNT but I've gotten so far down the road before I actually had a deal with them that I needed to do this. I knew now that it was going to be a viable business I by December I got. So into the weeds on this that there were a couple of different business model than I found people were interested in it wasn't just you know whether I signed with TNT. Or not I was going to have a chance to do this and make it a viable business and I'd already you know talk to Chris and talk to people and and I knew that I could do this. So You know for me going back all in is like Bogota. Great great achievement, wrestling great show. But to me like coming in a year later with all out to be in the same building into due to be where I came to their show as their friend and as a fan, and then to be there working together and putting the show together a w it was felt really cool and Kelly we'd come full circle I was I was happy I was proud of. Cody. Own Box and also I just WanNa to say because Mike brought it up. I'm really grateful for Kevin I don't think. It Kevin by gone up to Kevin I never would've had the guts to start this company and the guys might have found another personal work with and it could have been a totally different thing but I don't think anybody would have made eight figure. You know tens of millions of dollars commitment into starting a business that we've made and I don't know what the returns would have been but I think we've had great returns and I don't think I'd be without Kevin Riley and I don't think aws be that Kevin Reilly or any of us. So I'm really grateful to him and. You know it now I think We've got these great relationship and we're a chance to do something really really special I never dreamed in my wildest dreams all the years that I wrote dynamite notebooks and dreamed of starting wrestling company that we would be on TNT because in my wildest dreams I, never been that we never you know. If the wing would be back on TNT. It's dumping out of fantasy for me and again like when I talked about how happy I am to be at work with the people I work with to be on the channel I am into work with these people. It's such an honor and were media the dream partner for me been A. Dream partnership, and because of them, we have a chance. You know we did all out last year and it was a big success We have a chance for this show to be a great success and a bigger success because the exposure they've given us over the past year with dynamite and you know to our new new media botches the new team. Just. Starting to get to know them and They have a vision and I really believe we fit into that vision. I believe that wrestling is some of the strongest streaming content in the world. I believe there are a lot of people who consume rustling and I believe that we are a really strong cable property and that's how we got. We got here. We've built dynamite up into a top ten show consistently Wednesday night I'm constantly thinking about it, retooling it, kicking myself, beating myself up to try and make dynamite better and I really believe that we all put our heads together that We can make dynamite the best wrestling show in the world if it's not already in your. Opinion I think we're working are working hard. But I. DO think that Warner Media I can't say enough about the ship and I hope that as the company Awa grows and as we get more and more established, we do more and more things together. You guys asked me about the GW title earlier and I said I there's things I wanNA do differently. With the CW, different presentation thankfully, nobody followed up and and try to get to elaborate more details. But but that thing one example of different things we're trying to do with Warner media and you'll see a lot more projects in addition to dynamite flagship show and in a windy night at our our flagship product you'll see a lot more different kinds. Of. Shows in addition to the third hour wrestling things that aren't necessarily your classic wrestling show blauser went dynamite to feel like your wrestling show, and if there's four times a year going into these pay per views where I don't put wrestling, wrestling, wrestling wrestling on, please know that the other forty eight weeks of year it is the number one concern and And then for frankly I hear you is on these go home maybe maybe I should put more wrestling on the go home and and and not be story driven in the second hour and and I the worst thing. I could do not listen to what you guys say in the fans say because they're always right. That's why over the over the holidays a bang, my head and we all banged her head against the wall so much to come back. So strong at the beginning of the year to make sure twenty twenty was a great year That's feel about every week now and with all out. The car in front of you guys I'm really proud of it. I think about about standpoint you'll see something that's GonNa make you smile this weekend I've been waiting for this for a long time to do dynamite in front of fans the last couple of weeks he's been really special and open it up a little bit more and have a few more fans but be able to look myself in the mirror and know that we're doing it safely and we haven't Rick Anybody's safety whether it's the the fans themselves or the crew and the wrestlers to do it to get that reaction to get those pops and the dramatic feel and and. Go we've all been missing I'm just so excited for it and I thank you guys are sitting through bit call with me and I. A Gym I do we have any other ones either just been so great. I was GONNA end with one more question we are at the top of the hour we aren't a time limit but prone costume. We normally spend the wheel and and and get one world call in and when we're questioning, we've done that. So we have time for one more. And the winner is Louis Gang or from wrestled talk to Louis. You're there we got time to jam you in your real quick. Hi Tony hit from Russell. Thank you so much time Tony. Hey. Thank you. Oversee you guys have done some great walk with all our in the build. If you look at the card now and we know obviously you guys plan quite farmed advance. How much has changed? From what you guys or from what you saw the all out would look like. A lot of it is the same the. Biggest Change Day I honestly, it's mostly what I expected There've been a couple changes. I originally had Britain swollen, the main card and Being. Sure that Br. Bradley wrestled a long time and I think they're cinematic match is going to be great but that was one thing that I changed and then also they're you know most of it really had been the plan all summer. I think when you look at that we wanted to do 'em J. F. Challenging Moxley for the championship that we believed you know Kenny and hangman had this great ron has championed the now we've got a arguably the toughest challenge we'd ever put in front of them the number one. Contenders being FDR that you know Matt and Sammy the culmination of their story and Christopher's Orange Cassidy i. think that Some Challenges International Challenges Change things up and Thunder Rosa was genuity Kenny throw it out there and like I said, I have a good relationship with billy and when he lifting names and Kenny said Thunder Rosen, I'll bill it's a great idea I'd love to do that, and so I booked and that was a change some of the names and the Casino Battle Royale to be some people if I had my ways that everybody could be here that be a little different but generally, the vast majority of those people are the people I would put in honestly a lot of it's been good man. There's been people that have come in through the pandemic like for great examples would be die that have gotten signed out of the open challenge. Ricky starts and Eddie Kingston Ricky starts came in I didn't plan for this Cody had a list of names. They suggested they were good names, and at the the the rookie starts week restarts was by far my favorite name on the list even though I'd never seen him in person and and had briefly met him once in taxes but never really spent that much time with him. We've gotten to know him and had never seen him. Work in person he blew me away and it match with cody and I really wanted ricky to be here and not only that. But while Ricky was in the ringling cody I, knew what I wanted ricky to do and I had already turned the gears in my head about ricky being with has in about ricky working with Darby and John Mosley and before he had even gotten back there and I thought that was a home run that he had in cody hit with him in what kind of a tryout match and ricky hit a home run. So that was something I hadn't planned for for Ricky and now ricky's a huge part of aws and. Part of Battle Royale but I didn't expect that necessarily months ago and also Eddie. Kingston. Another one I've been a fan of Eddie Kingston a long time and I really enjoy he i. think he's a great wrestler Integrate Promo and. Thought he could come in and fit in here but it just hadn't I don't know I. I'd never had that one idea quick where it was like that's what we need to do with Kingston cody had list of guys again he thinks that's my favorite. That's what I want and booked it and Eddie Kingston hit a home run again I in idea ready. Kingston I thought with You know pack being gone There was a great opportunity Eddie Kingston, we had done this eight man tag that was kind of a match I thought not kind of it was a great match I thought with FDR box at fighter fast against. Phoenix Penta and butcher in the blade, and we had a fun story going there and and it's no secret. We Really Miss Pack of the company. I really Miss Pack I think we all do and. You know last year when Moxley was unavailable on all out pack stepped up for us and You know it's unfortunate. He's not here. But now we have all these other guys on the crew to step up and So you know with with Eddie I think he can be a mouthpiece for the loser brothers but also we see a lot of moving parts under his leadership with Phoenix and butcher and. Blade, and Eddie coming in again when did the match and did a great job and a nail the Promo and reception daddy was so good I thought. Okay. Well, I, think Eddie would be great for this. So we pivoted himself. Now, all five of those guys are you know in the Casino Royale and they're a big part of the story so some things have changed their but the the main stuff on the. A lot of it was what we've always wanted to do and bucks for Drastic Express I. Think we felt like could be a great match on the card again to the top teams and both in the top five and to set up a great challenger whether you know either team would be a great opponent for Kenyan hangman or FDR after the title match. So it's a great question man and A lot of the same. But but not all of it is what I would have said months ago. But the the. N. J. F. and Moxley and Kenyan Hangman Rosetti are certainly I would've told you a while ago and and Christmas is Orangemen's Amy I think If that makes sense. All right tony well, everybody was join us. Thank you very much. We're definitely at the end of our time. On behalf of everyone at. Tony and everyone at all restaurant thousand. Thanks for taking the time to join us and your continued interest nee w as as we said the. Commitment to the Wing Industry for granted and be assured it's appreciated especially this year, very unusual eventful year. So we'll be distributing an audio copy of of the Conference Tony. Very shortly. So be looking for that. Again. Thanks for joining us and we hope you enjoy all archway on. Saturday night the entire all weekend. Thanks very much. Thank you. Sir. What the really cool parts of being a VIP members getting to relive history through the pages of the pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues, we have pros towards newsletters dating back to the late one, thousand, nine, hundred as we put a new back issue up from twenty years ago that week and so when you go VIP, you have access to over fifteen hundred back issues. And a new PD off along with an all text version, it's easier for you to read that on your phone goes up every weekend and the latest issues include a cover story from the June tenth two thousand issue on Gobert returned to WCW when whether he's a solution to what was ailing WCW at the time. Also, my call titled Vince Russo is from Outer Space. And Bruce, Mitchell's call him still timely today unfortunately of racist gimmicks and poverty pimps was the title that's issue number six, zero, six the week before that issue number six, zero, five from June. Third features a cover story a talks about how there could be a shakeup in the wrestling industry with WCW for sale and e CW having an uncertain future and also a Bruce Mitchell column spoofing Vince Russo titled How I became World Champion. If we go back another week to the May twenty, seventh two, thousand issue, it had detailed coverage of the Judgment Day two, thousand pay per view including my review and Staff Roundtable reviews of the rock triple h sixty minute iron man match, and also the final installment of the Lance Storm. Torch, talk with his thoughts on various. Colleagues the week before that the May Twentieth Two Thousand Issue Issue Number six, zero, three features a cover story on ric flair's collapsed in the ring during nitro part three of the Land Storm Torch talk with his explanation for why he decided to quit cw. OUR COVERAGE OF EAST CW Hardcore, heaven pay per view and more, and then the week before that the May thirteenth issue features a cover story on the changing TV landscape and pro wrestling with the WWF moving from USA, TNN and attention shifted. W also covers sidebar story on the death of C W. Fan after a hotel party and WCW slam bary coverage and the week before that our coverage from the May six issue number six, one of David arquette winning the WCW title. My and no territorial examining Vince Russo's controversial decision and flip comments about title belts our cover of WWe backlash two, thousand and more I could keep going on. But that gives you an idea of what you're missing out on by not being a member magin settling in on the weekend and kicking back and reading wrestling history not through the lens of WWe, filtering it to their benefit not three people looking back on it through today's Lance. But what was said at the time the week it happened by some of the voices that you are familiar with here on the way. And podcast and Peter Torch daily casts so go VIP and we professional wrestling through the way the torch covered it in real time with contemporaneous coverage of pro wrestling's biggest events, biggest news stories, biggest personalities, I. Think you'll have last it alone is worth the membership price for so many of our members check out details on everything else it comes with membership including daily Podcast, their VP exclusive and shows like this with the ads and plugs removed go to torch dot com slash gold. For full details that's P W TORCH DOT com slash go VIP prices are as low as eight dollars and twenty five cents a month on average if you subscribe for a year or check us out for a month for nine dollars ninety nine cents. Thank you for listening to the Wade Keller pro wrestling Poe show. Did you know that through? You can get the show with the ADS and plugs removed for just four dollars, ninety nine cents a month and enjoy our podcasts on whatever podcast APP you're using directly through the Patriot APP check out full details at patriotair dot com slash P W torch VIP that's patriae dot com slash p w torch VIP wipe away. The adds to the weight Keller podcast post shows and torch daily casts that's fourteen progressing podcasts per week with the ads and plugs removed for just four dollars and ninety nine cents per month support us and enjoy a streamline listening experience. Have you subscribed to the POW torch daily caveat. It's a free daily podcast which shows throughout the week dedicated to ring of honor elite wrestling impact wrestling, major league wrestling, and t and EH. May Talk for pro wrestling fans. That's Monday through Friday and on Saturdays check out the deep dive with Rich Fan where he examines a single topic depth and then Sunday nights it's wrestling night in America with Greg Parks? You can listen live or download the show later at W. Torch daily cast dot com just click on the live stream. Link he takes your calls talking about wrestling's biggest events either ones that just took place or preview in shows that are right around the corner and on Sundays when w runs pay per views, he's live right after the pay per view at CW Torch daily cast dot com reviewing the show and taking your calls. That's the POW Torch Daily Castle lineup just search torch in apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your wrestling podcasts or visit our homepage to or stream the shows or find out more information pw torch daily cast dot com.

Coming up next