Stopping this. Do not tell what you're set. Do not match. Something is happening AMI only two could stop at your stand. I the only one who can fix this. This is now playing podcasts bonus Allah, we movie review of hereditary. It's heartening to see so many strange new faces here today. I know my mom would be very touched and probably a little suspicious. To see this Turner. A review selected by plug bean Becker, Mark ward. Was so good. Hosted by Arnie Stewart and Jacob they never had because they're all just like hopeless Pontus horrible hopeless machine. This podcast contains details, plots, boilers and harsh language, don't you dare. It me shit. Don't you ever raise your I end your mother? Listener discretion is advised. Who's gonna take care of me? Excuse me. Don't think I'm gonna take care of you. But when you die. Today. We're talking about hereditary starring Toni Collette, Alex Wolff Milly Shapiro with an Dowd and Gabriel Byrne directed by our ES ter-, this is Arnie one of the eight kings of hell and one of tonight's three Cobos have now play. Yeah. I'm the second severed head. This is Stuart. Jakup who rejects the trinity and happy Halloween. Be happy. How low we we. Hello. Be happy Halloween. Here's a free bonus show. Yeah. The real one. I know that some people were not so excited to get corn yesterday. That was supposed to be our Halloween show. Hey, you gave it more than a Pat of butter. I did I did it was a happy ending. I guess. That was like when you get those Bidault Honey, not real candy. King sized Snickers is going to the rich person's house like even the full size, candy bars. Something good for Halloween. There's no doubt about it. Hereditary was a bigger movie this year, then children of the corn runaway had more impact. It was from the beginning of the year a movie I heard tremendous buzz about so much that by the time, it came to Springfield sometime this summer, I felt like if you ever like a horror movie you were required to go. See it. I had it on my plans to watch. I had not seen it before this review. But I need to give a major shoutout to Mark ward. He's one of our pod being patrons. He came to us. After seeing we were going to be reviewing the witch. And was like, well, I need to hear you guys talk about hereditary. And so he Florida's by making the pledge to add it and because it's Halloween. We decided instead of keeping it as a patron show. We're going to do this as a bonus show. Oh for everybody. We've got so many shows coming out right now with Apocalypse Now on the patron feed for Veterans Day and all the m night Shyamalan films and Jamie Lee Curtis films on the donation feed. And of course, the spirit without let's give everybody a bonus Halloween treat in Nata trick. So thank you. Mark. The reason Mark wanted it reviewed as he had just seen it days before he pledged to us. He saw Australia, and what he typed was it hit Blu Ray in Australia, and I was absolutely flawed. And he honored us not just with the donation by. He said, we're his Goto reviewers, and he really wanted to hear our thoughts. And I hope I could gather them up for you. But when I saw this movie, I was also Lord I could not formulate opinion if we were doing it weaken have released would have been a lot of. I don't know. I mean, this was a true surprise. I feel like I've seen a lot of horror movies. I know what the -ticipant they named checked exorcist. I'm like, I think I know what movie I'm getting it's called hereditary gonna be something with a bloodline. But there are so many misdirections and strange narrative trips that this movie takes that it ended up surprising the lot. I had no idea what I had seen and I had no way of talking about it for several weeks. I right there with you Stuart because I was hyped for this. I heard the buzz coming out of Sundance people saying you got to see the trailer. It's gonna freak you out my wife, and I were excited to go. See this ready to go. See we can release which I had to go see ocean's eight instead. And so the second week incredible too. But I didn't care. I was going to see it because I'm like, I got to see this movie. I'll go to movies this week in which is tough when you got kids, but I pulled it off because I wanted to see this. I'm right there. Ricky Stuart I saw them like well that is not what I expected. We'll talk about it. But this movie takes a sharp left. When you think it's gonna go, right? I'd heard good things about it. And remember we reviewed it follows, and we reviewed yet out and these were films that really impressed me that were this type of sleeper horror hits that came out early in the year as so I got really excited when I heard of hereditary I was planning on watching it with without the show, then we reviewed the witch. And I have to say that now not so excited. I was being dragged by like fingernail claw marks were being left in the floor for me to watch this movie. I was like enough with his elevated bullshit just. Tired of it the which was a week or not recommend? But man, the longer I've sat with the witch the more it just infuriates me in certain regards, and I didn't want to watch that movie again. And here, I see this movie hereditary, it's got a little girl and of mother on the cover, and I'm just getting which vibes off of it. I came in a little bit reluctant. I mean similar to the witch. There is a big chasm between critics and audiences. This is another one where the critics loved it. And there's websites where you could gauge it as an audience and it didn't do so well with audiences but eight twenty four fours most successful film bigger than lady bird, which had an Oscar bump bigger than moonlight. Which won the Oscar kind of still not sure if it one that is a surprise. But again, this is a studio. I watched are people that anything that they put their imprint on. I will see that's how much implicitly. Trust their quality control. Not to say that I'm gonna love it. I oftentimes wrestle with it. But I know it's worth watching. And that's really all that I can ask when I go see nitty movie these days, please let it have more than preciousness and hereditary did. And of course, the thing about this one that makes it also hard to discuss is that it comes from someone. I don't know. I don't think the world knows much about. Ari astor? I say these first time horrid directors Jordan Peele. Yeah. He had a lot of TV. But then he does get out with the witch. That was a first time director, I guess horror is the go-to. It's always been the most profitable, John. But I'm shocked with these very artistic films coming out from these first time directors and their horror films yet I looked up he'd done shorts. That's it. So I didn't know what to expect. He's a grad of AFI, which is the program. Lynch came from. It is a very autour driven school. I do think of it as being where we've had a lot of distinctive voices coming out of that. So it's interesting, and I. Wonder what would have happened if he had to take a studio paycheck gig? Instead what I feel like we got was a film school movie that was funded with enough cash to get people like Toni Collette and Gabriel Byrne. But we are seeing something that doesn't go through the usual machinations of Hollywood thinking and for better for worse. That's part of the reason why it feels so different than your standard issue, hor Toni Collette, we're gonna be talking about her pretty soon with the six cents, you know. She's Austrailia n-. Yeah. I saw Muriel's wedding in theaters that was her breakout film. And I thought it looked really good. And I went and saw my remember he actually not liking it that well thinking of a little too weird. But I've seen her in stuff, but I never really thought of her as an above the title star. Yeah. I was surprised because little miss sunshine. I thought she was great in that. My wife was a big fan of the United States terror where she plays a woman with multiple personalities that I go to watch the extras for this. I'm like she's got an accent. She's australian. Blew me away. But wife didn't even know watching United States Tara, which is like three or four seasons, and it's been forgotten by now, but that fright night reboot. She was in that I think she's two sides. I do think she is known for kind of quirky comedy indie Sundance kind of comedies, but also has John recruit if you're making a horror film, she was in a big one with six cents fright night. She is capable of doing both. She's not snobby about it. She's happy to go in this direction. You say she's not snobby. She didn't wanna do these heavy dramas anymore. She said I just want to do some light easy comedies. But then she saw the script for this. She's like, well, I gotta do this. Now that is hysterical because a light funny comedy. This is not no this is an intense family drama or film. Yeah. And I do think earning his right to be afraid if he doesn't wanna see elevated horror that is the category. I would put it in this is a horror movie, but it is also a drama. It is a family dining if ordinary people had some demons in it. Now, I like ordinary people. It's funny 'cause I Br. Bought that movie up on a couple of recent podcast, just randomly. It's for some reason. Ben in my mind, we've been talking a lot about elevated and psychological movies. I guess and I brought that up, and I definitely saw that in this as we were watching it. It does feel like ordinary people the horror film, but I'm going to reiterate something every show we start by saying that there will be plot spoilers and harsh language big spoilers coming up for this one. Oh my God. If you have any interest in this movie stop hit stop now. And it pains me to tell people to stop listening, but stop listening. There's no turning back. Go watch it this show is the conversation for after you've watched the movie I can guarantee that no matter what we recommend or what we don't recommend. I recommend you hit stop. If you haven't seen it and go watch it before you listen further if you're. Interested in our conversation. Spend the two hours, and so it's not a short movie, but go spend that two hours watch the movie and then come back just trust me on that one. Yeah. And if you need endorsement outgoing and said I liked it when I first saw it. But I wasn't sure what I had just seen. And so this is the show where we're going to try and figure that out. I'm still not sure about that details. I'm still like, yeah, we're going to try and piece this movie together. But I don't mind go ahead and saying, I think people should see it. And I I think you should give him a plot. Now, Ellen Lee is dead. She was older she suffered from dementia and earlier in her life or mental illness had her alienating most of those around her including her family. So while Ellen's daughter, Anne eulogize is our mother. She doesn't miss her per se is played by Toni Collette, she's an artist that makes models kind of similar to the town, replica and Beetlejuice she lives with her husband Steve Graham played by Gabriel Byrne. Her pothead sixteen year old son, Peter. Alex Woolf and her awkward thirteen year old daughter Charlie played by Milly Shapiro. The family seems fairly normal even after Ellen's death. But Anne is having trouble coping and even sneaks out to go to a grief support group. This isn't her first bout with mental problems that she had a tendency to sleep walk and even woke up one night in her son's room. She'd covered herself, Peter and Charley and turpentine and was about to light them all on fire committing suicide as her brother had and now stop listening for God's sake. Stop listening and his grief intensifies, greatly when Charlie dies the girl was having lactic shock after eating a cake that had nuts in it. Peter tried to get Charlie to the hospital, but Charlie stuck her head out the car window to get air and was decapitated when Peter swerves to miss a dead deer on the road killing. All my theories about what was going to happen. Exactly thirty minutes in. I have no idea. What's going to happen in this film, shake Damian? I'm so confused. Now, everyone in the family is on edge with Anne blaming Peter for Charlie's death and Steve citing with Peter against his wife, but things take a weird change. When Anne meets Joan a woman played by an Dowd who claims to have been in the grief classes with Anne, though, Anne doesn't remember her Joan takes any to a seance where any is able to communicate with Charlie spirit. Charlie does seem to possess any then things continue to escalate and Peter starts to see things including losing control of his body and slamming his head into a school desk. Steve confronts, the any about what she's done to Peter's, mental states. But Anne is babbling about Charlie spirit and eating of Charlie sketchbook, and he had tried to burn it earlier, but she caught on fire along with the book. So she asked Steve to throw it in. He refuses. She does it prepared to sacrifice herself. But Steve flames and dies. Peter comes home to find his father's body smoking on the ground and his mother waiting to attack him she's now possessed in climbing the walls. A spider and moving at super speed. So Peter hides in the attic refined. Several naked cult members. He flies in and beheads herself with piano wire while Peter is captured by the cult. So here's the truth of it. And he's mother Ellen was a cult member. Joan was a friend of Ellen's the cult worship the demon called payment payment needed to inhabit, the body of a male host Ellen had tried to put payment in Peter as a baby, but because of the estranged relationship with Anne Ellen wasn't able to but Annie and Ellen reconcile is Charlie was born so payment was put temporarily in Charlie's body ever since Ellen died the cultist planned to kill the grams and put payment in Peter's body, which happens in the last few frames as credits roll. And that's a hell of a last movie. Dump? I just want to say, yeah, it sounded like you were crazy man, or it's the end. They're just naming everything that happens in this. Film. It's kind of a hard movie to summarize without starting with the spoilers about Ellen being a cult member and worshiping a demon called Peyman. But I did have to watch this movie twice. I watched it. And I'm like, okay. Let's do that again. Yeah. Watching it the second time knowing where it's going you can look for all these little hints about this aim in Colton catch a whole lot more and have a better sense of where this film's going because like you said that summary at the thirty minute Mark it totally throws you for a loop. I also just wanted to take a look at the family as well. Because I didn't suspect that for the longest time. There actually was a cult demon practices going on. And so what I wanted to say was not only how subtly is that stuff introduced. But also, what if this isn't a horror movie, what if this is just horror is the salt rim on the Margarita glass and what? We're really drinking is ordinary people. You mean the movie we're not just drinking the people ordinary people? The Robert Redford film from nineteen eighty I went into this movie knowing nothing about it. I've seen a trailer. But I couldn't remember anything in the trailer. I didn't rewatch the trailer before watching it. So I turn on this film. And yeah, it really is a drama, and I was thinking ordinary people a lot. And I knew that people told me this was a horror film. So in the back of my mind, I kept going with these theories of where's the horror? What's the horror going to be? But it was definitely not a horror movie by the classical sense. You don't have your opening scream like kill just to set the mood. This is going to live and die by its drama. Not by scares. Yeah. You go about an hour till you get the say on and I feel like that's really where the horror elements coming. Yeah. There's a little girl that's gonna get decapitated. But it's. A family trauma trauma, like dealing with all this death. And I don't think it's shot like a normal horror film like this house. It could be really creepy. Looking at this old house in the woods. But like the whites are always on. We've been doing all this are Gento stuff. I'm like every scene in those are gentle films. The lights are off. It's dark, and you got weird lighting to make it look spooky, and that's what you do in horror movies. This one not lights are on. It's bright. It's not like the conjuring or something. Like that. Even though it's a house that could seem really spooky it's not in just so it throws you for the first hour, especially this could just be about a family dealing with grief. It's certainly not your classical horror cinematography, but I was getting a Rosemary's baby kind of vibe some of that seventies horror because what you have is well lit spaces, but big empty spaces. You have people wandering around alone in this big house. And so that to me I felt like the visual look of this film. Always let me know that there was something. Possibly going on. It just kept me uneasy. Now, you still could keep me uneasy and a drama, but I just know that it was a little unsettling the way they were filming. And I think part of that is the score because this again, unlike most current horror films, I don't think there's a lot of jump scares in this one either there's a couple, but most of its atmosphere in that score is just going throughout this opening of this film when it's really just a drama, but it's such an airy score you're on the edge of your seat. Wait for something horrible to happen. It made me really nervous because it's like a heartbeat, and it just goes, and it doesn't stop. It doesn't exceleron it. It doesn't have a crescendo. There's just this noise behind it. Just. Constantly, and it is very effectively unnerving not only that but the sound design itself and definitely some of the camera tricks in here are going to disorient you because things that you think you hear actually something else. Like, we'll be listening to clucking sound. And we think it's a clock. And then we find out it's actually the vocal tic of Charlie or will be pulling in and looking at a diorama of a house. And then all the sudden, we realize dramas in folding in there, and that this is actually happening inside the house, and you wanna talk about layers yet. There's dollhouses that look like the house that anti-dole you've got this huge set. That's really just a Dollhouse that movie makers created, and then you also got this whole team of Greek plays in literature where what is more tragic to be in control of your life or not to be in control of your life. So I just feel like there's all these like literally at one point we're gonna see one of Anne's creations where it's just houses. Stacked on top of each other. And I feel like that theme run throughout this Ville. Yeah, it's the interplay is that she's creating precious little worlds where real drama that has happened to her. She's restage ING with miniatures. And then all the sudden sometimes we're watching the drama, and we're suddenly aware of the proscenium and that we're watching it through a stage of some kind and you're right. They'll even be dialogue. Once we get to the high school about Sophocles, and it is very postmodern in that way. I do know this director cited one of his big creative. References was Peter Greenaway. And I don't feel like many people know that director anymore his most famous films the cook the his wife and her lover. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He made everyone watched that movie, even though it's not a horror film. I've never seen it. I can't endorse but I've seen many of his works because they are so beautiful. He is essentially a painter, and he kind of treats film, like a sketchbook. And so there's always almost like a laundry list of things. He does and it feels very pretentious. But also, very beautiful. He did chick spears the tempest. He gave you an McGregor one of his earliest roles and pillow book, it's kind of like watching a living painting unfold. And sometimes there's a plot. And I wonder in the way that this is staged. It's very pretentious the way that this movie is put together does it earn its pretensions. You talk about pretensions and thinking like Wes Anderson who I love I love everything meticulously designed plays. I don't feel like this is in that same category. Yeah. There is a lot of thought put behind it. But it is forcefully pushing a theme like with exclamation marks throughout when you're looking for it. And I don't have a problem with that. Here's what I think really helps it earned that the actors they cast when I saw Gabriel. Byrne was in this my first thought was that guy from usual suspects. I haven't seen him since end of days and Toni Collette I knew and these kids, I didn't know I'm haven't seen Mathilde on Broadway. So that actress she got a Arnold. Mary Tony for that role as Matilda, and I should say she is very strange looking. They did play up there is makeup involved with that. She doesn't actually look like that though. She has an unconventional look. Yeah. I had to look that up because I'm like did they find a girl who just looks like she'd been hit repeatedly in the face with a frying pan used makeup and things to play it up. This cast pulls me in with the atmosphere and everything. Yeah. It is pretentious. But that's not always a bad thing. If you can live it up. It's like going all in you know, when you're playing poker. If you're going to be this pretentious, you're going in your hand better be strong, and he's got four aces in this cast. Yeah, I'll agree with that one of the things I really keyed into this viewing was how any has recreated her own childhood family dynamic. We will learn as we attend this funeral. Her mother ruled the roost the dad barely factors and barely gets mentioned died before she died and Ellen what? She said what she does is the way that it went for Anne as a child equally true now that she's raising her own family. Her husband, Steve barely gets a word in he's a therapist. He's usually listening, and he is usually letting her have the floor. I didn't even know St. was therapist until I watched the deleted scenes, and it gets mentioned one of them and the deleted scenes, a lot more Peter, and Steve who I feel they are more passive in this cut of the film, but there are scenes where they become a little bit more active participants. But I don't think that's the right instinct, I like how this is set up hereditary. These men are being treated the same way that the grandmother treated the men in her life, and she has two children a boy and a girl she had a brother who died by hanging named Charles. And now she has a daughter that is named Charlie and a son that's older Peter that she doesn't get along with very much. She's much closer to Charlie than she is to Peter. And so is that her. Hereditary is that something in her family some issue she had with her brother dying and the dynamic that created for her childhood. Is that part of the reason why she can't connect to our teenage son the movie being titled hereditary, it's funny because we had a conversation when we picked this movie, and we're all like, oh, we're doing heredity. None of us noticed the are in it. That was me. Well, those metoo. Yeah. I've made the mistake too. So I never thought about what the title meant until I'm watching this. And we get this opening at the funeral and it actually starts at the obituary. And I read that like first of all it's really tiny white text on a big black screen was a little bit difficult to watch on television. And then I'm thinking is going to be her coming back from the dead. What is it about this woman? But we get any giving the eulogy which is a bit unusual to have the family member eulogizing, the parents, but she talks about being difficult, and she talks very soon about mental illness. And all of a sudden it hits me I thought coming in hereditary, maybe there is going to be a disease or pathogen or something. And now, I'm thinking, this is about mental illness, isn't it? This is going to be about mental illness passed from grandmother to mother to daughter. That's what I thought it was about. Going in. Okay. This is about that DNA getting handed down. I don't think that's what it's actually about. And it's interesting just being married and having someone with a more objective. You like they'll be things. I'll be renting I hate when my dad would do this when I was a kid, and then my wife's like will you do that same thing? And so I think that's what this film is really getting into it. It's not necessarily the DNA though. That's what you think it is that the red herring of the film. It is all those other weird quirks that recre- on that think it's an interplay between three things I mean, I do think the modern scientific approach might be what genes have you passed along that would include mental illness. What of it is learned behavior? And then what of it is old world. This family is just cursed. That's where the demons and stuff come in. There's different ways that you can look at it. And certainly when you look at plays and tragedies of ancient Greece. They didn't have that modern psychology. They look at things about being fate and demons gods. And so there's that reading to this as well. And I was reading up on payment like because. A real Colt demon figure, and what I could tell it comes from a Dutch occultist and physician from the fifteen hundreds. And what's interesting is he was against which trials he's gotta stop accusing women of being witches. And he really coined this idea of mental illness and say, no these women are in which is there's something wrong with their brains. But he's also really into like studying demon. So I do know the director researched all this cult stuff. And I do think that is in there. So any big payment fans out there this works on multiple levels. I thought it was pretty up on my evil, but I'd never heard of payment. The thing that kept going through my head though was something Stewart said during the witch I knew this was going to be elevated horror, and he said one thing about elevated, horrors when you can have the conversation of is the horror real or is it in somebody's head as so that is Ben my reading of this movie through to watchings, you could definitely take this as we're going to take everything we see on the screen is very literal that we have in. Objective narrator, and what we see people climbing on walls, people spontaneously combusting ghosts all real or I think this movie could be viewed just as equally as our subjective narrator is insane. And we're seeing everything through the point of view of Anne and seeing what Anne siese or later on what Peter sees as the mental illnesses passed down to him as well. And again, I think perspective is blurred. We oftentimes have a hard time reading who is the point of view character. I tend to look at Toni Collette because she's giving an incredible performance. And because she is star. And this is her movie. But when it's all over I think we realized it's also Peter story as well. In the first time, I watched this. I did look for that more allegorical reading is this an allegory of what it's like as Peter's developing schizophrenia, which is very clever when you watch the film, you go back when Annie's editor group, and she's talking about her brother was schizophrenic and thought. Mom was trying to put people into him while she was because that's what happens in the story. But I'm like, okay. Is this about him dealing with that schizophrenia and hearing voices and just developing that, and this is just not scary way. To portray that my reading on this movie, the entire time was this is all in her head until the very last scene where I went. Nope. Are maybe. Right. And that was exactly where I was which is again, why you have to have that second watching because it believes in the Colt it has a stronger reading and feel for the Colt than I was prepared for it to do. There's a lot of stuff early in the film that I didn't recognize hor there's a triangle painted ground in couldn't tell if it was painter if it was leg, somebody got a ram Loughton, carved it into the floor of the old woman's bedroom. I mean Annie's wearing that payment symbol around her neck, and we'll see that throughout this fill. And what is that depicting? It looks like something phallic in triplicate. It might be an actual payments symbol, the director discovered. While just researching this I know what I'm getting Marjorie for Christmas, necklace, triple phallic necklace. But the real sign of creepy nece is Charley, right. First of all again. They just made her look creepy, and I couldn't even get a beat on her age because movies also play with this. I'm like she could be. Eight to fifteen somewhere in that big range, and she finds a dead bird and cuts its head off at his making figurines out of it. I'm like, this is our serial killer. Yeah. That's what you think. When she cuts that head up. We'll see you're making these figures, and you go hereditary her mom's artists she's carrying that on. Maybe that's why her mom has more affection for Charlie than Peter who they have very tense relationship. We'll find out why later on. But. Yeah. Once she cuts that head off, Mike. Okay. Here's your Damian. I found this really funny, and I was bummed that I didn't know about this on release as part of viral marketing, Charlie studio, actually opened up an see store where you could buy her little figurines, and they sold twenty four of them to an unsuspecting public none with actual bird heads, but you can go to Oetzi and look for crafts by Charlie g and you can see the twenty four dollars that they sold on there. That was a little bit creepy to what about the mother's art. Is there anybody who's like I? To go. See many cheers of strangers homes. Totally. I totally did miniatures. Yeah. If you've been museum, there's something for whatever weird art, you're into so. Yeah. I don't think this is too weird. Yeah. Have miniatures out there their autobiographical. I mean, it's like someone painting self portrait but doing so in a Dollhouse there so creepy because you hear the story about how when Anne had Charlie. She finally reconciled with the mother and the mother's like I need to feed it. And then you see that miniature of the mother reaching over anti to take Charlie with their breasts hanging on you're like, ooh, this is really weird and creepy Charlie is the favourite that is the thing that is stated when they come home from this field role and Charlie moping by herself that she was the favourite one of L is she grieving because grandma's gone. We know that Peter didn't really care. He's kind of tuned out. He's a pothead. He's just doesn't care about his family in general, and Steve is so much the therapist that he's concerned about how everyone else is feeling. He's not going to tell you how he's feeling. So it's really for mother and daughter to process what's happened here. And why we're paying so much attention to Charlie is because she's special needs. Right. I mean, I was reminded of video I watched in health class so many years ago on progenies. There's something about the way she looks that looked prematurely aged like maybe she is the reincarnation of Ellen or something. I actually thought she looked and I mean, no ill to this little girl. They did play this up. But my immediate reaction was like a slightly toned down version of Eric Stoltz in mask. Yeah. There's facial deformity. I wasn't sure if there was learning disability because she's doing things like sleeping out into cold in a tree house and most people know if it's cold you better go inside. And then of course, the vocal tick the thing that really we'll exploited later for jump scares. And Astor has said, and I got it on the second viewing more than the first time. Because I just this movie threw me for a loop first time, but Heymann has always been in her sense L and got a hold of her payment has been in her and has been controlling her. He can't control the DNA because she has a peanut allergy which is going to be fatal. Or maybe that was all part of the plot of this cult who knows? But yeah, she is never been a normal girl. According to the director, at least that was kind of my reading on the second watching as well, and we sort of get that because she's sitting in class they're supposed to be taking a test, and she's just kind of staring off into space. Yeah. She's working on one of her little dolls. I believe she's making her father burned is what it looks like to me. Oh that what she was doing. I saw her staring at scissors on the teacher's desk. And I'm like if she going to go insane. What's going to happen here? All the things she's making. She's obviously psychic. I assume that just from seeing her characters in these kinds of movies, always have clairvoyance. So the fact that when she asked her mother what's going to happen when you die who's going to take care of me. I think well Tony co is definitely marked she's marked for death. And maybe this little girl will be in some way, responsible for it. Or the very least will know when it's coming does. She know her own death is coming. She's drawing that bird head with the crown on it. She seems on some level and again, maybe it's subconscious. Maybe none of these characters can really realize what's going on. That's something that said within the movie is tragedy. That's the Greek tragedy is that they have no control of their fate. And that is depending on your view more tragic than if you control it. Yeah. So maybe Charlie is just a part of that tragedy in the sense that she is compulsory to do things and draw things that are of her own doom that she is essence and seeing this bird seeing her own decapitation. Later that day. I go a step further. If this is payment, he wants it. He wants out of the Charlie body. He wants into the Peter body. He wants the ceremony and so more than clear voyeur. This is a plan. He knows what the cult is going to do. He knows how everything's going to go one thing that I read on trivial, but did not catch onto watchings the telephone pole decapitates her later on as a payment symbol on it. Yeah. You didn't notice that the first time. I watched on like what does that mean? Okay. I was too busy picking my job off the fuck Lor. Well is forced to take Charlie to this high school party? Yeah, they drive by that site post, and when the cargoes by there is that symbol there. And I'm like Hon. Twenty Colette had that necklace with that same symbol. What does that mean? Something's going on. Okay. Yes. Payment may be in her if you're inclined to believe in old world superstitious reading she may be possessed by a demon. But she. He is not payment. This is a little girl. I don't believe that she's faking it the way that Damien will be like, oh, I'm just a little kid while I saw the branches on the tree house and make my friends fall to their death. She just wants to have a nice life. Right. I mean, I don't get the sense that she's plotting to kill herself or to kill someone else. She's not evil is by point. No, I don't think she's evil, and I do think she's evil. You think that she's consciously aware that she is a satanic demon jumping into the body of art, brother. Yeah. I do not. I didn't read it that way at all. Yeah. I never got that sense. The way this character is played. She's very aloof very disconnected. She's to human. Yeah. I see I think she's not human. She's very cold. I mean, the fact that she sleeps out in the cold. But also she doesn't want to go to the party. She doesn't want to interact with anybody when I see a little girl cut the head off dead bird. There's something creepiest fuck about that. And I thought that was the turning point for her that this is when she is going to go Dame. But. You know, what she's got some kind of physical deformity in the film that they play up. So I'm like, yeah. Maybe she shied. She doesn't want to be around people. She'd rather be an artist be alone creating things creating a world where she's more comfortable because she feels like an outsider. She can't eat things without making. There's not nuts. And she's weird looking all this stuff. I didn't take that as evil know, exactly. She is a little girl that might have a demon inside her. That is. Yeah. Playing the waiting game. And so she's two at once. And I think it's true for a lot of the characters. I think that might also be true for Toni Collette, and certainly for Peter is like they don't know what's waiting for them. But on some level. They do I do like the way that they drop her peanut allergy earlier when they're going to the other like you have the pen and having cake, as you sure there's no nuts in it it at least feels natural knowing people with peanut allergies and people with children, peanut allergies. It's a conversation. You hear a million times? But you're watching a movie I'm like that's gonna come into play. Yeah. I thought it was. A little obvious. And when she's at the party, I'm like come on. You got nut allergy? You're not researching the stuff, and you're not caring your epi pen with you. But maybe that is payment involvement here. He's like leave the pen behind. You're gonna have some nuts tonight. Yeah. Again, I don't sense that she's suicidal. I sense that she's a little girl at her brother's party that is cringing embarrassment, and we know that her Goto food specifically chocolate she'll pull out that chocolate bar just to give some kind of comfort, and it's just a brief shot of someone dicing up nuts while they're making that chocolate cake, you wouldn't necessarily know they were so finely ground that it has the gallery in it. The theme is if you were paying more attention, you could have avoided this. He said he wasn't going to go drinking. Well, he's getting stoned. The point is he's not paying attention to his sister. And she's not paying attention to what's being put in her chocolate. And consequently, they have to flee this party and get to the hospital. Now the way this scene is shot. And you see your kind of gasping for air and writhing around the back seat. You see him driving? You see a roll down the window? Now, I knew something was going to happen here. I didn't know what the way she was fumbling for that window. I thought maybe she was going to have the car door open, which I actually had happened to me when I was six of course, seat belts in the seventies. I thought maybe she was going out that way then the paper start flying around. Peter gets distracted from thinking car accident. She doesn't have a CPA on she's going to fly through. I know ver- saw that they would decapitate her. She's on the cover. I didn't think she was getting out of this film. Anyway, I thought she'd be there the whole time when her head hit that post we've talked about how here in the mid west people don't usually make noises during films we'll laugh little bit. We don't applaud at the end because the projectionist did good job when this happened. I'm in my house, and I just go I just like an involuntary guttural happened when I saw that. I didn't know there is going to be decapitation. I knew from the hype there's people that said they were physically revolted by something in this film. I didn't know what it was. I need something gross was coming. But it is just so sudden, and because your expectation is she's going to be the evil demon running around. Yeah. When she loses her head while just shocked. I don't know what this film is anymore. It's an instant recommend for this moment for getting the reaction from me, whatever I think about the rest of this movie to get a reaction like that recommend. Yeah. What are he asked or has done is recreated? The psycho showers is actually managed to do that for our generation, we usually have everything spoiled, and somehow I didn't know about this. I'm hoping the secret was kept from most people that come to this film. And it's just devastating for lots of reasons. Of course, it's a small child being decapitated that in of itself horrific and to all of our theories about what she might represent and what was going to happen next out the window with her head. Yeah. And they don't. Will the punches on this either? I mean, we're going to see the next morning the heads rotting with bugs on it. I mean that is truly the most classical horror thing as far as gore and things go is that but also Peter is in shock. He stops the car, and you don't know what he's going to do you're going to call nine one one. What's he gonna do? He drives home and gets in bed, which I understand when you're in total shock like that. You're not responsible for your own actions. You do things that may not be logical. And this is what I like about elevated hor because this is not what would happen typical horror movie. This is a human drama dealing with grief and shock like I am just amazed. You watch Peter drive home get out of the car get into bed go to sleep. And then when you gotta hear Anne screaming and crying when she goes out to the car to go get something, I might forget that this is a horror movie, this is just a great drama at this point the next morning were it's all told the cameras stays on Peter who's in. In bed, and you just hear the parents getting ready for their day and going out to the car and martyrs where like the body of the car on my God the bodies in the decapitated. Oh my God. And he's here. Then shriek that shriek hit me like a follow up punch. It was like a one to jab the one being the decapitation and the two being the very real reaction. I would think I mean, hopefully, nobody ever knows, but the pure destruction of soul that Toni Collette portrays onscreen, the anguished Wales I felt so bad for her. And I knew she was going to blame Peter. And I knew I couldn't blame Peter. I'm just going to say now, you get that scene where she's rolling around on the ground saying, I just wanna die give the woman the Oscar. Now, why do we gotta wait till February just she is amazing in this film. I don't know what hereditary would be without. Tony just like, I don't know. What will I do know what the shining it'd be without Jack Nicholson experience that it's not good. But. Toni Collette just so mazing in this and just sells the horror the sorrow, the grief, everything I agree with what you guys are both saying, but I also want to underline Ari ASTA is doing something very interesting by obviously Toni Collette would come to her son and ask questions and some kind of state, but we are never to see those moments the way that he will frame this drama. It is as if neither will speak to the other about what has occurred and that creates incredible tension that will carry on for the next half hour until they finally sit down to a dinner table, and she can finally voice, what's in her mind. But to know that there's this much between them the elephant in the room is the severed head of the youngest member of this household that isn't incredible weight to carry for the audience and for the characters for thirty minutes. Yeah. I feel like there's a tension for the next thirty minutes of your weighty. Great wise Noah talking about this. You had a dead decapitated daughter. Why's everyone just in their rooms we need to talk about this. What is there to say? I don't know. What feels like that's something? You should talk about. Yeah. Everything to say is that when something tragic happens, we as a society need to talk. I mean, we're built on top. We're podcasters. Of course, we are inclined to talk. But this is a dysfunctional household where people make art instead of talking or they smoked dope instead of talking, and because guess for lots of reasons we can only speculate what Peter must be thinking. We see him voiding. He comes home really late after school. He in a deleted scene goes to sleep in the tree house, not realizing his mom was already there. He is doing his best to not have that moment with his mother. Some of it is obviously oh my God. I feel so bad that I guilt her some of it is that I don't know if my mom can handle it because she's on her best day hanging by a threat. Of course. I just can't even imagine we're looking at the movie. Ordinary people which does deal with the death of a sibling and adolescent teenage boy, visiting a therapist. It's the same dynamic, the more popular child is the one that died, and the one that survives has incredible survivors were more spent guilt and fights with his mother all the time. And just yeah. It is that you think about it, even if you were the favorite child if you capitated your sibling, even on accident. It's gonna be really hard for the parents to get over that I could very easily see a fifty fifty chairs of that turning adversarial. And now I'm into this movie as drama. Yes. The horrific thing is you have decapitated little girl that's more enough. But I'm into this family into their dynamic. He is suckered me in. I can't look away from this film. It could just be a drama from here on out. But these people and that scenario coming out of nowhere. It's so rare that I actually like a car accident death in a movie, I think so. Many movies where they just decide to turn on a dime. Oops, look at the randomness of life. We got hit by a car. But this one God me, I mean, I like dramas and Manchester by the sea did this recently. I mean, I definitely would be cool. If this movie were just that film. I see a lot of those provocative dysfunctional family is what you usually expect to come out of Sunday. It's not a horror film. But I wanna point out. They have laced this all with horror moments throughout all of this from the earliest beginnings, anything she sees her mother's ghost in the work study when she turns off the light and Charlie thought she saw Ellen out in a field by a burning fire. The husband even has gotten a call the grave has been dug up someone desecrated Ellen's tombstone and dug up the body. They have been telling us if you're paying attention again. That's the big theme of this movie that Ellen is here among them doing some mischief. And I'm definitely seeing a lot more of these. Of course, I saw the goal. Mom, and the fire and all that the first time I watch us. But there are other little things that I'm picking up the second time knowing where the story is going at one point Peter is just smoking some weed underneath the bleachers and his throat tightened. If feels like oh that payment or Charlie is now gone into him. And he's starting to inherit some of those traits that she at which is what the story is gonna tell us that yet Charlier payment goes into Peter by the end of this, and we'll see those little things throughout. I had no idea where it was going. But I thought maybe he'd be the next to die. I don't know this actor and physically he just did not look like the song of their union doesn't look like their offspring. Yes. He has some eyebrows. That just a grab what's really funny is. Apparently, this is the second time he has played Gabriel Byrne's son, somebody thinks they look at like, I don't think they look like at all I, but I really thought he might be the next to go. It's Gabriel Byrne. Honestly thought he would step up in this movie more. He ever does. He seems to have come in. But like, I'm not going do an American accent. I'm not going to die. I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna give great line readings. But I'm not here all that much. Anyway. No, the men in this family are not the focal point even though payment wants that male body. It's all about the women. Yeah. The focus of that. And again that you're thinking about match or linearly following that genetic line. Yeah. Is this something that has been passed on not through Gabriel Byrne, but through Toni Collette character that Souflias meeting Peter once he's now having visions possibly schizophrenic or more likely if we're to take the ending literally demonic possession and the next surprise is. I think the movie's weakest, I know very well aunt, Lydia is evil. But they want us to think that Joan is just a friendly person at the support group who is going to help Annie through some processing this grief whose aunt Lydia and out is in Handmaid's tale. Which is a popular show on foolish. Yeah. And she's amazing that when I saw this. I'm like chick's really familiar who's that? And I go to after that was aunt Lydia. Looks amazing for some makeup honor your hair little bit aunt down. Great aunt Lydia is horrifying. I highly recommend the leftover. She was incredible. And that also a villain character, although a complicated one and a movie called compliance. She should won the Oscar for she was absolutely fantastic. Love to see her in anything. But she such a big presence to me again. Maybe if you don't know her you just think, oh, I'm not paying attention to this character because she's outside of this weirdo. She's a flake at first. And what does she understand about all the terrible things going on in this Dollhouse? But in fact, she knows everything because she's Ellen's old friend, and she is going to make sure that the transference of Peyman takes place. Here's what I will ding this movie on even after two watchings. And maybe you guys will disagree with me. I'm the. Newbie here. I'm the one who's just seen this phone for the first time. So my opinion here may change, but I feel some of the storytelling regarding Joan and the Colt and their relation to Ellen is a little too obtuse a little clunky. And it comes about in organically when they go to Joan's house, and she has some weird doormat that looks like a very thin pillow. And she talks about having bought it at a craft show. And but anti recognizes it as their mothers embroidery, right? Yeah. I thought it was pretty obvious that they're telling us something was going on. I knew something was going on. I feel like when we are finally told about payment. It's too late. Their stuff dropped in the models. That Anne is building. They're all these Latin words put up there. I don't know what any of the MIR throughout the house there on the walls throughout the house. And she seen them. I think they're just creepy words. Some of them actually do mean stuff just old Latin or whatever. But yeah, I think it just gives this vibe that Anne and his family is not Incan. Troll. There's something pushing them along to your point Arnie. I think it's definitely worth asking is this movie to loosen the editing. It's over two hours at somebody's. I film did he not have control over this. Or is he a genius for creating all of these misdirections first film? It's hard to know if I had more to look to if I could say, oh, that's his style. He usually does that that might help you process this. But because we have really nothing to point to. I don't know I can say that I'd never feel bored by this film. But I do wonder in processing all of the red herrings and just all of the meticulous details. Are they all important? I know they're not all important to me, but maybe to someone else's reading because this movie invites multiple interpretations other people say, oh, no, you can't cut all the stuff about the say on. That's so super important. I do agree. It's the least interesting part of the movie, partly because I'm onto Joan. I know what she's trying to do. I figured Joan was something the fact that any drove to that support group again. And what I didn't catch the second viewing. Did you guys notice that with the mail? They have this shot of the mail being delivered after the funeral and there's a pamphlet for visiting a psychic. Yeah. No. It's a fire force aons this Colt is true in all these different things to try to push this along. So we gotta get a say on somehow. So maybe they'll show up at this when no that didn't work. So now, we need Joan to try to get anti participate in this asked her said if the plot to put the deer on the road to get Charlie decapitated didn't work they had other plans to bring this about. Yeah. We don't have the movie told from their perspective. And in fact, none of the characters that were following with the exception of Joan who's popping up late. And now we're into this film have any insight into what's going on. So like they said about the Greek tragedy were watching people that can't read. Signs, if they could they would know what was happening and they could avoid it. But they're talked into a it's called a seance. But really it some other religious, right? It's obviously some incantation meant to help the spirit transfer from Charlie into Peter. I love that. Yeah. There's a seance. You gotta read these words and Jones like be sure to read this when everyone's in the house and everyone keeps anti ask. And Steve ask what language is this just feels something like evil dead. You gotta read the evil spelled bring it there. But I think it's funny everyone just keep saying well language is this. Yeah. I just thought it was going a different way. I thought it was going more exorcist and less. Rob zombies. Lords of Salem. I haven't seen. Lord, Salem, got some exorcist it again, there's things to look for. There's a light that you'll see that is payments spirit or whatever. And during the say on that is going to enter into anti that light that comes. Like this laser light. It's almost like Michael Jackson's rock with you video from the seventies. You know, what I thought that was I thought that was fire because Annie had talked about almost lighting herself. And Charlie and Peter on fire. She sleepwalked she came in. She covered them all with the paint thinner. She was going to burn them all up. So I thought this might be like this occurrence at Alloa creek bridge or Donnie Darko like all vision in the last moments in this light, you see is the blue flame that spreading actually schizophrenics talk about seeing this kind of stuff all the time. It is a very good visual representation of schizophrenia. So just going to throw that out there. It's playing with you. I mean payment makes the most sense by the end of this film, but you can have whatever reading you want. You can have an old world superstitious reading, you can have a psychological breakdown. You can look at these characters. However, you want it's just tragic to me because at this point. Any is trying very hard to bring her family together in her mind. Having say ons is going to bring them together. Steve is horrified as a man of modern science. He doesn't want to have anything to do with as a cult ritual, and Peter, of course, doesn't even want to see his mother there's been so much that's gone between them, and when you find out that he woke up. Yeah. As said woke up one night of become paint thinner with his mom striking a match. She will tell him. I never wanted to have you. I tried to miscarry. I didn't want you in my body. That's a lot to process. Yeah. It gets heavy even though I think the second hours when the horror really kicks it you still get these moments. You get the confrontation between Anne and Peter at the dinner table right before the CEO that is hard that seen as somebody who had some issues with parents those fights were hard for me to watch. I really they struck a chord in me that was like unpleasant and then the. Deal that yes, she tried to kill Peter when he was in the womb like, you don't need this horse stuff. This is a gripping drama of people but in trying to make amends for that. Because I truly believe that Anne doesn't want to feel that way. I think that's what it really is. She does feel that way. And she tells him I wish I could forgive you. But I can't but in trying to do. So maybe if Charlie is not gone. Maybe if we can summon the spirit and have her here with us again. Maybe that will be the thing that bring us together. It's actually tearing this family even further apart. Well, any is acting like a crazy woman? I mean, we are being shown this movie a lot from Annie's point of view, as so we can understand her rationale about why she's acting the way she's acting. We see everything she sees. But if you just take a step back imagine being Steve coming home one day and your wife who has had some emotional trouble. Because lost her mother and her daughter in various short secession, and is now babbling it's like a manic depressive type of thing where now she's having this manic episode where she can't talk. She's talking so fast. You just can't stop talking as she's shaking. If she's got everything everybody has to come together. Do this crazy thing right now I've seen manic depressive, and this does not ring false now. And again, I have sympathy for her when I put her story together. Of course, she wouldn't want to have Peter if you had the family dynamic that she did to know that she could have a son that has schizophrenia to remember what happened to her brother. And know that her crazy mother couldn't wait to get the baby out of her. She had to cut all of that out in order to even go through with it. I mean, her mom didn't allow her to miscarry protected the child that much, but she kept the mother away from Peter. And that's probably why payment isn't there from the inception and us why they have Charlie and you see payments influence if you believe. The payment going on in this Bill after this. You get this great remain toll about the sleepwalking the paint intervene at this dream sequence. Where the answer now covering Peter's face and anti goes in there, and they're arguing and I just love how it cuts back and forth. And all the sudden, they're soaking wet. I'm like, wait. What just happened? Oh, this is the paint thinner now and like flame start going up. It just starts going crazy wants to say on happens and payment gets more control of this family. I thought it was Charlie. And she says I love how when Joan does the say on the first thing he does is look under the table. Where's the magnets? Where's the trickery? And Steve will do the same thing. It's the only thing this movie that tells me, oh, yeah. Those two should be married. But if she talking about Charlie her daughter are Charles again, I think part of the reason why she recoils from her son is that he probably looks and acts just like the brother that was schizophrenic that killed himself. And that's why she just can't love him the way that she loved Charlie. And so you ached for all of these people because. Who they are keeps them apart. When you blunt see them come together, so very badly, and Charlie or payments, something that resembles the girl that they raised is upstairs. Now still drawing in that book. We have lots of scenes of pages flipping by themselves new illustrations of Peter screaming with his eyes blacked out. We know that the book is going to be significant as it always has has foretold the future. It drew the head of the bird before it was cut off. And now, it is telling us something is going to happen to Peter. And if you see what Anne finds out about payment when she looks for the book and her mom's box belongings. He is a God of mischief, and I feel like that is what's going to happen with this book. And he's gonna throw it in the fire. She starts on fire puts it out. And so again messing with our expectations later on relief. She's the one who's gonna burn but God mischief he's tricking everyone to get what he wants. And again, I'm wondering is she sleepwalking is she actually setting herself. On fire, and there is no book or at least not in her hand. What is going on? Or is. She just burning the book, but having this vision that she's being caught on fire. There's so much going on. Meanwhile, again, Gabriel Byrne's Steve does not have much to do with this film. But he keeps getting these phone calls, and this is in the first hour when it's mostly drama not a lot of horror, but you just keep hearing grave desecration and things like that. It's like something's going on with the mother's body. I can figure that out that she's missing is gone. Eventually, we'll see photos confirming that, but the fact that she's been a ghost in this house has told me that really from early on that it wasn't a surprise to find out that the mother is still a force to be reckoned with even in death. We got that sense even from. Yeah. The eulogy was that this woman is not going to stay down easy. And this is awesome around the same time. Any is finding an old photo book and seeing that Ellen in the past new for the whole time Joan Joan was a friend and was there at weddings at religious events, and she should be afraid of this woman and is during this scene where we discover payment. It's the first time we hear the name or see the name on the screen. I don't know how I feel about it would prefer to be in a boy's body. I'm not sure what to make of that normally in movies that underlying gender differences. That's what the movie's about here. It just seems like a weird conceits of like, well, that's the reason why Charlie didn't stick. But it says in the text you can read pause. The book says it can't take female form. It just prefers a boy. Yeah. I mean, it was injured nearly for what thirteen years because that's what was going on with all the weird grandma breastfeeding. When when they said that the grandmother was feeding I thought they meant like with a spoon in a baby jar when you see the. Dia ram until you see that miniature. She still taking those that happen. I do get the feeling Ellen payment was in her. And then she put it into Charlie. She tried to put it into her, son. But he killed himself thinking he was schizophrenic, and yeah, they've been waiting for that male host. This is where the movie gets this weird pagan colts movie and with all their rituals, and you're just not expecting that out of nowhere. So you're seeing all these allegories about family trauma handed down through generations or maybe handed down through generations. Now, it's like I get into gender issues. All of a sudden. Yeah, it's like I was drinking the Margarita, and it stopped being tequila was all salt all of this is horror movie. There's nothing elevated about any of this stuff. It is exactly as you would expect in any horror movie. This is a devil cult Rosemary's baby has been mentioned exorcists like we're just dealing with a manifestation of evil, and they have to fight that. But by the time, they get to fighting it it is far too late. And I wanna give a shout out to Alex Wolff. He is really pulling me along. It wasn't sure I felt about him when he was a stone or hanging out with his friends, but quickly the friends dropped by the wayside the girl who's asked. He was staring at in class goes away. We're focusing on him and dealing with this drama, and he selling every moment of it. But the scene where he gets possessed in class, and he like raises his hand and the teacher thinks he's going to ask a question and just the weird body motions. I don't know if that was CGI or some kind of mine the fact that I don't know makes me like it even more slamming his head into that desk. So damn hard. Wow. Yeah. This is we're though I'm like, okay. What is the analogy? What's the allegory, whatever you wanna call it, the metaphor here because if payment wants this meal host, and I'm assuming he's taking Peter over why these slamming the face down and contorted maybe he just getting used to it. It's like being John Malkovich. And he just learning to control that body. No, they say the body needs to be weakened. So he can enter okay, we've actually seen Joan. Across the street trying to help this process along shouting encouragement to the demon out. Like, I mean, I don't know if it's technically helping at all, but it's telling us as an audience member that this is as I suspected with Charlie. There is an original soul. They're fighting off trying to ward off something that is subsuming it and to look at the other metaphor. I don't know enough about schizophrenia did know is it more commonly metro Linley passed along to mail. It does it prefer. I don't know if it's passed the Mamba males do suffer from a more and Peter if he's sixteen he's a little young usually it's early twenties that typically manifest, but I guess for storytelling. Why not sixteen k is the age that Charles was when he thought that there were people inside him, and he hung himself, and Peter I don't know what's going on. When we've seen that little leg. Talked about the blue ring linked to Strom or something coming down when he sees it as classroom. I thought he would go to see Charlie's ghost because we'd seen the grandmothers goes earlier, and they just had the say when he looks into that mirror and sees evil Peter staring back at him. Again. The guy just cells that scene really well with the facial expression. And that is Irie. And I'm still thinking these are all people I still I think you could would credits roll walk out of their thinking. This is just all schizophrenia even more than that. We're hearing that sound that was like the biggest jump scare. I think in the whole audience when I saw the actress was that one point Toni Collette is driving along, and she hears that sound and stops the car mean just know that something about Charlie is hanging out with them is very unnerving. Peter does before the C Charlie he wakes up and g standing in the corner in that head goes rolling off. And turns new basketball bright, it's sad. Because we thought where at least AMI thought that bringing Charlie back would bring them all together. And what she? Really done is create a tragedy in which there's no escape now. Yeah, we see something. Peter's going to think it's his mom, but some hands jump out, I think most typical horror film jump scares. When those aunts popout right after Charlie's head falls off in grabs. Peter by the head and tries to rip it off. And he believes it says mom sleepwalking again that was very greedy the fact that the mothers in the room at father does I had to be the mother just had to be her trying to repair son's head off. And then trying to cover it up the same as when she was saying, I'm not sleepwalking again, whether it's by even or sleepwalking what however you want to write it. The fact remains there is true aggression between these two they really do want to kill each other. And so it's manifesting itself in all kinds of ways as we approach the climax Peter calls, his dad, I guess you get out of school when you bash your face into your desk enough times. And while he is being transferred to the house, and he has gone. On up into the attic and founder mom found a bunch of flies. I and I'm thinking not only with the flies. Not stay in. The attic. The smell would not stay in the added. Well, the smell doesn't earlier in the film. And I only notice this the second time Steve is walk around like what's that smell? And you just think he's an anti studio. It's paint or something. No. It's the dead body in the attic now, and when he gets home he doesn't believe her versus doesn't believe there's a body up there. And then when he finds the body up there he thinks that she's the one that dug up Ellen and brought it into the house. No head on Ellen. It should be said he does not believe any supernatural answers. It's just not going to work for this guy. But it's at this point where everything gets supernatural. She's again babbling about this book and wanna get in the fire and that she's gotten environment. Of course, nobody could walk into this room. See this woman battling this way and believe a God damn word of it. Even if somehow the words make sense the presentation of. Those words undermines any credibility as here's her moment of sacrifice. They led us to believe this would happen. She burned the book, and she caught on fire as if she takes that book has doused it in flammable liquid and she throws it in there. And you expect her to go up for some reason Gabriel Byrne is burned because he's not important. He's not of the blood line. Here's my did. You guys know he was therapist because I didn't know that until I started reading about the film and go into outside sources, I think that would help too little bit because he is. So incensed at this point, not just because it's a crazy woman. He's like you're doing this all over again. And I feel like oh there's history here. I wish I had a better sense of what he knew or that. He wasn't there pissed he'd studied this kind of thing to watchings didn't get it. Got it off of a feature at the came on the disk. Exactly, oh, I saw it. It's there, for example. He's writing of colleague, in fact, say I think my wife has gone over the edge when he gets the photos of the desecration. It's ironic because she's going to group therapy and not telling him that there's all these secrets again if characters could just tell what's going on. They would be able to stop the tragedy from happening. The problem is that anti has never confided. What she's been doing with Joan with therapy in her spare time at all? She's been left alone to make dollhouses and all that's led to as a show. That's not going to happen in New York. And he's had enough. He feels like he needs to intervene. I haven't said anything this whole movie. And now I'm going to now I'm going to say, you're crazy is book is ridiculous. And we are going to have a major intervention right now before it gets any worse. I like this character though, because he hadn't said anything, but he's been building up to it. This isn't a sudden turn this is a character arc for him. As he started off probably thinking. Now, the family can get over things. We had the mother living with us who had the Alzheimer's and everything we can now. Get on with a normal life. The thing I read, and I really didn't get and would have been so interesting is that Anne was his patients and that they went from doctor patient, married. Yeah. I did read that then that's the greatest of all like that. You don't do. You don't have that interaction with your patient. Anyway, you're right. I had no clue of that. And that changes a lot about how I feel about him. It's cut for reason. But that's what the intent was filming Toni Collette mentioned it and one of those feature at s-, but the whole movie he's been citing more and more against his wife and even had a phone call when right before she destroys all her our love that. She destroys it as the phone calls coming in. We wish you the best. If you need more time for the show, just letting she smashed I think she'll eat more time Stephen said, I'm going to protect my son. He drew a line in the sand. He hadn't done anything about it yet. But more and more he realize. His priority needed to be as a father more than a husband. And it's here when he's finally about to take action that yeah, he gets burned up. Yeah. I think the final straw is this moment. But when he saw her recreate the Beaumont that the daughters had got ripped off in diorama, you could see him angry, and he's popping pills, and again therapist, you're trained to show your emotions, you're not supposed to have a fight you leave people to process it, and he went his own way. But by staying so quiet, he incinerates he becomes a non factor in this climax. She throws the book in there. He isn't golfing flames. And we're wondering what happens when Peter is going to wake up and smell something burning. And this is when the film goes full, hor Peter's in bed Anne is clinging to the wall. And I remember seeing this in theaters just up there the coroner it's dark, and then you just you kinda just notice it. I look over my wife, and my DC that she's like, yes, I am terrified. Oh my God. I. Was watching this with Marjorie and had very similar seeing. Like hanging first of all parties. Like, she Spiderman now hang on the wall exorcist. I mean spider walking. Yeah. She's possessed at this point payment is in control. But I was freaked out by that. And the way she scurries along the wall, and is this in her head if she watch it does she think she's on a wall does Peter thinks she's on the wall. But she's not really there are we in Peter's perspective. Now, that's what I'm thinking. Is that up to this point? We've more or less seen the story told through Annie's perspective. Well, maybe any hung herself. Like a brother, maybe she's already dead. And what we have now is a schizophrenic coming in to consciousness in a really bad moment in his family's history. Yes, she is full on attack, which I expected I believed her to go nuts enough after that fire that she would attack him. I didn't. Checked her to do it with demotic powers and the ability to levity it is so freaked when she's sitting there. Peter runs up in the attic, close the door, and she's cleaning to the ceiling. Smashing grad against that pounding. They sped up the footage. It got really horror there. It's even better because the patient. He runs up in the attic, we hear the pounding. I'm thinking, but wait she had to get a hook to reach that that's up so high. How can she up this? She's floating around at this point Stewart. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. It can't get worse than this. Nope. Twenty clutch to this our head off now and this Peter has to become what has expected of him by all of the occultist. They're going to get rich that was on the other page of the book of pavement was that people want this to occur because payment rewards them with you know, whatever monetary wealth, it looks like for sure, and then whatever else that evil will afford you. But it is so out of the blue and this. This is all the all the old naked people walking out the attic. Yeah. This is where I'm thinking. Rob zombies lords of Salem, typically is the naked old people. But I think they're they're really fucking pale. These naked old people to get some sun because I thought they were ghost or zombies or spirits or something. I never thought they were cult members where their clothes how they got so many questions about that they control the whole time. But yeah, I agree. Like, I don't know they put it dead body in the adequate family finding out. I guess they could be making up there to schizophrenics oftentimes CD means they oftentimes see visions of horrific things again. There's a rating there that can explain this logically in one of the details that I like you could read it either way is real or the onset of schizophrenia. Tony clips up their song or head off. Peter's going to go out the window to get away from all these old naked people, which I would probably do too. I think that's the right when I see any floating in the air be heading. Herself everybody's dying by losing their heads. And the naked people and the addict doors locked up the way they framed it. The director is telling me he's going to jump out the window and the framing yet. That's what I would do to. I will take a broken leg or a few broken. I will even take being peer Polisianov for the rest of my life over dealing with these old naked people, but the detail I love is you see Peter laying on the ground. You still hear that side knows of Anne. And then you hear the thud of Annie's head. It's all just showing Peter though. And you see that as soon as that happened. You see that light come down and rest on Peter. Yeah. And then something black leave his body as well. There has been a transference. He stands up wanna point out. You might miss it in all of this horrific imagery if it wasn't awful enough. The family dog is dead. You see it laying their feet away for maxi. The corgi is a course for reasons unknown. I completely missed that onto watching and I'm glad to nobody should kill a core. Either to cute that's how you know payment is evil. That's how you know. This is not sentimental and the tree house. You know, we have been thinking for wile that. It was a scary place because well back when I believe Charlie was going to be the evil force. She was spending all her time up there, even though it was cold. And I was thinking of Reagan playing with the ouija board in the basement, and that must be how the evil I got her. And then later in the movie, we see red lights coming out of the window. When that red light just comes on all the sudden as Peter's laying in bed like, oh, here's something evil happening. No, it's a space heater. Yeah. I love that scene where that happens. I didn't know what was going on. But the fact that it was a space heater that was so red and eliminated the whole room the imagery here is really working for me. And it's because it's all based in that drama. It feels. So real to me that I can go with the unreality of him going back up there, and I don't know how they fit so many naked old people in treehouse. Yeah. It takes us back to the whole idea of the bottles. Again, we're kind of back in a miniature. It's like the tree houses a miniature of the one we were in before. And it's like one of Anne's dioramas come to life. She's always told auto biographical stories from her life using these dolls. And this is the final one we see her body with no head we see Ellen without a head. We see Charlie with no body on a mannequin bike one of her toys. She would make there's that in the mismatched head and body. And what's interesting, you get to this point in this movie's just gone so crazy during the last thirty minutes, the score totally changes. Just just very fantastical light music. All these sudden again it just shifts rite of spring. I kept thinking it felt almost hopeful. And again, I guess to say this would be. Yeah. And that they have Charlie's head on the body there. It's just very hard to watch this scene because of where we're at I usually pretty desensitized everything, but seeing that was pretty hearten again this actor playing Peter his facial expression the way he's like dazed confused disbelieving. And then all of a sudden, it's like payment takes over you see the confidence that you see them raise his head a little bit. Like, he is the leader of these people in. What's really interesting is Joan she's going to tell Peter what's going on. But she doesn't call him. Peter. She says Charlie euro, right now doubt, you're payment. And so I guess even though payment didn't want that girl body. They always had that affection for Charlie because she carried that spirit along got it from Ellen. And now it's able to transfer into that male body that payment wants, but does that mean Charlie spirit is free? And that payment is now in Peter. According to again, according to Astor. There was never any Charlie. She was payment since she was a baby and grandma got a hold of her. So there is no little girl only. There is. No, Dana, only Zule, correct. According to the director, you could interpret another way if you want the thing I've noticed about the director because I did do a little bit of reading. He's very interested in talking up the demonic side of this and not so interested in talking about the psychological side of this. No, Eddie, also mentions that a lot of these ideas and stories came from a personal place. And again, this is someone we don't know if he had a long history and someone had the interview and dug into his past we will be able to point probably to moment that are auto-biographical. I assume with a character who we see anti always telling stories from our life in miniature. That's kind of what a filmmaker does as well. I suspect there are several moments here that come from his actual life. And maybe one day. We'll know what those are. I'll say I kind of do appreciate. That this isn't an analogy for how schizophrenia or mental illness is something evil something demonic because that's something that's been played up in Hollywood forever. I've dealt with clinical, depression, my entire life. I was sister who deals with severe anxiety. And I think there's such a stigma, and there's always this fight against that that it's not the psychos that are out there killing people that people have mental illness are often are more harm than the ones doing the harm. So I'm kinda glad that's a red herring. And they go away from that. If you wanted more literal interpretation that it's not mental illnesses. A demon. That's going to destroy your life. I think when credits roll you can walk out of this room, thinking, whatever you wanted to be could be either or. Oh, yeah. You can have that interpretation. But the fact that the last shot shows them in the Dollhouse the film black all around and we see like a cut away wall for that. Tree house. Just like the doll houses any had built they were puppets all along. And it is pretentious put it. Through very well. So Jacob Stuart is hereditary and your genes Jacob this is a film. I liked it. The first time I saw, but it is like Stewart said there is a psycho moment in this moody that just totally threw me. I'm like, I don't know what to expect now. And that's fun. Like that doesn't happen in movies, very often. So I hope you watched it before you talk about it because that is just a rear experienced these days spoilers everywhere hard to avoid them. But yeah, I think this is a well crafted film, it's obvious that Astor put a lot of thought in detail media little too much. I mean, there are a lot of layers in this, and it could get kind of muddle trying to figure out okay is this a Colt, and this is about that kind of thing. Or is it about schizophrenia? I do just kind of a broad. This is about how you aren't always in control you in here. Dna you inherit parenting styles all that kind of thing into turn that into horror again, I like that idea. I've always said. Core. But the last few years I'd just seen this explosion as elevated horror that I've really gravitated to. And it makes me excited. Like the fact that I was excited for a horror film this year. When I saw hereditary says something, so yeah, I think this is a great crafted film. Great acting again, give Toni Collette the Oscar now, we don't eat a wait. Sorry, lady Gaga. I don't care that star is board to Colette. But. Yeah. Strong recommend for hereditary Stewart. Yeah, I'm certain. I'm watching a very good film. Even though I'm not exactly certain even the second time with months to process, the original the ethical experience. What it is that I've seen if it's a portrait of madness or superstition all of that can say conclusively is it's a tragedy in which the characters couldn't get out of their own way. And that you feel every bit of the pain that they feel and being unable to change their fate. The movie does remind me in a strange way. Way of six cents when I saw that twenty years ago, not just because that also stars Tony colleg. I remember that movie came with a groundswell of hype masterpiece, next, Hitchcock genius. So Where'd I always struggle with? And when I saw success, I'm like, yes, there are moments brilliant here. And yet there are things they were little things at that time. But there were things that made me think the director had blind spots. And now that I've had chance you think Astor's gotta happening coming. Well. I think that you know, the more movies I've seen the easier. It is to spot. What does and doesn't work in six? I wonder if that won't be true for her editor right now, it's just an outlier. It's just an oddball film. I don't know if it's a masterpiece or a very good first film that has some weird quirks that probably could have been tightened up. But the important thing to know, the only thing to really focus on at this point is that I wanna see more from him. I wouldn't. See this movie again, and I highly recommend it to everyone. Even if you don't like elevated, or if you don't like the idea of horror aspiring for art. I think there's enough here. That's just got John repeal that everyone should see it. The last thirty minutes of this fear horror fan watch the last thirty minutes when it just goes crazy, and I have no problem with horror as art I like horror that pushes boundaries of all kinds, including storytelling it, but the witch made me really have a negative attitude. So coming into this at the thirty minute, Mark. I didn't care if there was going to be or I didn't care if there were going to be ghosts. I think the genius of this movie is it's a solid drama that has ghosts in it as so it works without the goes. Whereas I feel like the witch the drama there didn't work as well. It was always in the shadow of the which because of how it was told to us with the baby being killed in the woman bathing in its blood and things teased things from the start. That were not answered in an adequate speed or in the end adequately at all for my tastes here. This family pulls me in and I'm so with it, and yeah, I can't describe the sheer emotional reaction I had during the car accident scene. But the more watched the film the more. I'm wondering what is real? And you don't want movie. This kind of reminded me of is Donnie Darko when I first saw that film. And there wasn't the director's cut that has like text popping up to explain what's going on Donnie Darko at the time. I saw that the African Donnie Darko and for both these films as soon as I watched it I became obsessed with analyzing it and wanting to know, wait what what was this. Meaning what is that as so I watched this movie again? And then I watched the feature at s-, and I've read a little bit on them. I wanna stop I want to bring my opinions in here. I know. Enough of what he said to know what he talks about. But I don't want everything explained. But that's how I was with Donnie Darko two. And then once you have explained though is going to forever change, your viewing of it. I can't watch Donnie Darko with my own interpretations anymore because the director there spelled it out so much. I think after a little bit more reading Aster will put me in that same spot with this film. I don't think it has a high rewatch ability after a couple I wanted to see all the clues. But because it is a drama. It's not going to be like nightmare on elm street where you can put it in every three months or something. It's not a feel good film. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend putting nightmare street on again. Never. Well, all right part three now. Okay. But it's a very strong recommend from me. This is brought me back to say, okay. Some elevated horror is good not all of it is going to be to my taste, but this movie, and maybe it's because I do like a good family. Drama, and I liked good performances and like good cinematography. But this thing has atmosphere using out of it. It's singularly the best thing I've watched this Halloween season. And the word singular. I just wanna focus on that. It's unlike anything else, even though we can make references and Peter Greenaway. And I know love Carey and wanted to bring that there are things you can cite, but the movie operates by its own dimension. Again, that's what makes it feel odd. I don't know if it's good or bad that it goes in so many crazy directions. But it's new and that's exciting enough to recommend on that alone. And maybe next year. We'll have a chance to give a better idea if this was a fluke or not eight twenty four just two days ago as of this recording and nounce the date for Astor's next film. August nine twenty nineteen I think we're doing like forty week films. I don't know if we could get this one in there. Maybe someone will donate. So he can but yeah, he's doing a Scandinavian full core film. You know what I'm paper? I'd be like fuck. No. But because it's him I'm interested. It's that me the meeting with the guy like, no, no. All right. All right. And I already confessed on the record. If you go listen to our which show become a patron, go here, what we all had to say about that Scandinavian horror is something that I think is under represented these days and really cool. So I look forward to that. That will be really neat to see someone at American at that follow in those footsteps, but again, thanks to Mark for introducing me to this film. And for giving us a good thing to discuss everyone should thank Mark because extra show for everyone. Yeah. Hopefully, you enjoyed listening to it. And it was your Halloween treats that is good for you. It makes you think, and it doesn't have excess amounts of sugar, and no peanuts that are gonna make you stick your head out your window and then get decapitated. And if you did enjoy the show, please think about heading to itunes leaving us a five star review and letting other people know what you enjoy. Roy about the show in a few words, and yet as Stuart mentioned if you want to hear us discuss more elevated hor including get out and the witch those are available along with twenty total shows for patrons the patronage. It started off I think with some pretty solid shows. But now, I can't think of a better bargain than twenty exclusive shows for ten dollars a month. That's fifty cents a show. And then a new one being added every month in a couple of weeks. We're adding Apocalypse Now, which is a huge daunting film to discuss. But going to be a really good conversation. I as a Jacob Stewart's. Thank you for joining me until next time HALE Peyman hail. Hey. Dead. I don't like this. What's happening? What's going on? At least. Fucking. Thank you for listening to this episode of now playing podcast. We hope you've enjoyed this bonus movie review. He wanted to credit. An extra things to Mark ward for his support of our show and choice of movie for us to review. But let's will remember Sophocles wrote the oracle. So that it was unconditional meaning Eric Leigh's never had any choice. Right. So does that make it more tragic or less tragic than if he has a choice? For more movie review podcasts. 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Give a shout out to Alex wolf. I mean again, I don't. Peter, Peter and the wolf. Doc. He's. I used to love that as the Oba was my. I'm sorry. You were saying something about this movie. If you just wanna keep making Jones, go right ahead. Right.