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A Tale of Two Movie Stars: Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio | Ringer Dish


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I am joined today by Andrew Gritted Arrow and kate nibs Hi guys hey and we're here to talk about movie stars which is really exciting because I love movie stars and it's also because we don't talk about movie stars as much as we used to dish this is a podcast and have podcast feed about celebrities and fame and the history and industry that goes into that and for a long in time movie stars fueled it and in two thousand eighteen not as much you guys Andrew. Why are we here to talk about movie stars? What is the special occasion? I would say it's like the biggest it's a blockbuster four movie stars <hes> <hes> it's called once upon a time in Hollywood I have so is the ringer dot com. Please check care. We have a lot of content about it but tell the people went once upon a time in Hollywood is what's most packers. A lot of dangerous stuff cliff here helps carry the load. I try deeply. The Heroes July twenty six struggle we do we came to playtime is over. I don't beat him. He kills you not when Rick Don's got a shotgun pointing Tarantino I loved that stuff once upon a time in Hollywood July twenty six Quentin Tarantino's latest movie about Hollywood in the sixties around the time of Charles Manson and Leonardo DiCaprio stars in it as a literal movie star and Brad Brad Pitt is also in it as his stuntman and so it's this movie about movie stars starring movie stars its Peak Hollywood. Kate are Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt two of the most. It's important movie stars in your lifetime. I would say learning Caprio is the most important movie star in my life. Pal Brad is one hundred percent leading question like podcast nonsense and you really took it to the next level. Tell let me why I mean because I was eleven or twelve. In the film. Titanic was released I Sai- four or five times in theaters I'M NOT GONNA go in to detail about all that played in my yep awakening as an adult female but it played a role I I had like unauthorized biographies of you know to Capri out. He was just the like teen movie star when I was at a very appreciable yeah I should say that the lineup of this particular particular podcast is intentional and it is who were alive and allowed to see movies theaters when titanic was released because that really was a foundational moment for our generation which I'm going to say mid to old millennial. Do you guys except that is embrace. Okay being in the mid to old bracket with yours. Yes Leonardo DiCaprio a huge kinda generation defining movie The star and then I think alongside that is Brad Pitt. Maybe maybe I'm the old person who's GonNa talk about. How Brad Pitt is like a generation defining movie star but in a way he is and this is what we're GonNa talk about in the podcast kind of their careers ours and also their fame and the archetypes of movie stars that they are but Brad Pitt is someone who probably off scream is the best example of the last twenty years of like a <hes> movie star level of fame and investment in his life while also doing working people don't really care about people in movies as much as they have cared about Brad Pitt in the last twenty years? Would you say that's accurate yeah. I think that's fair and I think on the flip side. The interest in Leo is a little bit different. I mean they're definitely they definitely charted different paths in their personal lives fair to say like the the investment and Brad Pitt as as a celebrity is so tied up in his extremely high profile Romances with equally high profile female celebrities <hes> and and the brain selena thing and everything everything with Jennifer Aniston that came before and then before that you know he was dating one of Paltrow he was out there like he has he ever dated a non famous person not to my knowledge so people have always been sort of drawn to to him in in that way in a way like since Leo has basically planted his flag in the just dating in anonymous rotating cast of young models he hasn't really <hes> yeah seems purpose to strategy eighty and it's interesting I wanna go through all of this and we're just GonNa go through kind of the phases of their career and examine the choices that they made onscreen and often kind of how it adds to the legend of both these celebrities but everything you just said is exactly right and it's all things that happened not in a movie and that for longtime was our definition of what a movie star is which is someone who could hold your attention both on screen and offscreen. It was someone that you would we'd go see you would go see movie because that person was in it right. You'd be like Oh. Tom Hanks's in movie. I'll go see it but there was always this added element of part of the reason you would go see it is because you were invested in that person right and total investment what they were doing outside of the movie movie and part of the reason once upon a time in Hollywood and these guys being a movie so excited because we don't really have movie stars like that anymore. It's not something that happens that often in two thousand nineteen Andrew Why is I guess it's a few things one like just cultures so fractured right now that everyone has their own people and there's not sort of these monolithic people at the front of at the front of pop culture. I think you know people get famous in different ways now. It's not sort of this like mythological uprising where suddenly Leonardo DiCaprio's the the the face on the screen. It's sort of like little Naza Exxon Tick Tock and then suddenly everywhere so it's it's just like this different format now and at least for our generation generation it doesn't have the same pull whereas someone coming up from sort of viral fain. Is this this amorphous thing that sort of hard to latch onto yeah I think is also that movies are a bit different in new rule that movies plan are in pop. Culture is a bit different. You know we have a whole podcast the big picture that is like now devoted to fetching about how people don't go to the movies literally every week it's just me and Sean big like Oh my God and then people didn't go to the movies which makes sense when you look at netflixing you understand that how we watch things is very different and also they make movies so now the big movie events are kind of I._P.. Driven you're going to see Superman or Spiderman Spiderman or a Batman or the Lion King. You're going for the recognition of the franchise itself as opposed to the people in it and you know. I don't WanNa be to absolutist about that because like Tom Holland is the new spiderman men and I think he's like very very famous and he's very famous because he's been in a lot of movies but even if you were to compare Tom Holland in two thousand eighteen to Leonardo DiCaprio in nineteen ninety eight. It's slightly a different. I think there's a lot more he's famous because he spiderman you know and we heard a cap heroes famous because he's Leonardo DiCaprio or he was which is a great segue into. Let's let's just go back to nineteen ninety eight. Let's go to we're going to examine the breakthroughs of both Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt and talk about how they became famous which is similar to have you components now and also really really different and Kate I just I'd like to ask you about Leo in the late nineties. I feel free to be as personal and it's frank as you would like to be. I will hundred <hes>. What do you WanNa know 'cause? I know I know a lot about Leo's back story. Yeah we more then I should. We all know if you don't know he started out in television. Actually he was a like sort of recurring star in later season growing pants. I didn't actually watch that I I think that was a little that wasn't when he came into my <hes> like world but then he starred in what's eating Gilbert grape and he and <hes> this boy's life. Is that what it was called the one where Robert Deniro is really mean him yes so and both of those roles those were like really meaty character role so he established himself really early on is like the next sort of intelligent character actor before he sort of the people realize that he was the next big hearthrob right like his acting Bona Fides were well established as also very young at that point yeah. He was like thirteen or something like yeah like he was. He was a kid he started just growing. He was very baby-faced. P P started appearing a lot of teen magazines his public persona actually sort of surged ahead of his his like acting roles as a heartthrob when he finally started in Romeo and Juliet people were very excited added about him and then by the time titanic came out he was really before the movie was even released. He was already like America's hot young part up as rose. You'RE GONNA GET OUTTA here. You're going to go on and you're GONNA make lots of babies. Watch him grow. You're GONNA die an old old lady warm in her bed. I'm a little bit older in U._k.. But I still a teenager in this era and I remember Romeo and Juliet wrecked by Baas Lerman also starting Claire Danes was like all the teenage girls new you know like the this scene with him looking declared through the fish tank and you're just like Oh. That's my guy. There's a lot of that you know those photos were in lockers and once he had the teen crowd I felt that built the anticipation for botanic and so so a lot of people did go see titanic because of Leonardo Dicaprio I certainly did yeah is it fair say that this is like the peak of like Tiger beat. Yes totally thirteen there. There were so many different kinds of magazines of that nature where there is like a literal Palau centerfold teen boy and I feel like every other magazine was like Leonardo DiCaprio Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Maybe throw Devon Sawa one. There is a week solid devin. Sala is on twitter being great acting wonderful. I you love to see it thirty years twenty years later he's he's finding his way but yes leo was at the forefront of that and obviously titanic was just a total sensation and made a ton of money and won Oscars and was a technical feet at the time though if you're watching now that boat look so fake but whatever don't tell Jim Cameron really does I mean I guess like we've achieved a lot in twenty years. We should feel proud of ourselves. I still get spooked when that guy hits the propeller. That's tough that's it hurts yeah but apart of titanic sensation and success was that the people went to see it over and over and over again in theaters and I don't have the data on this but I can tell you anecdotally that is a hundred percent team girls going to see Leonardo Dicaprio over and over and over again and I know because I knew you all of them Kate. How many times did you see in theaters four okay yeah? That's like average that but answer that seems like a very normal if you're under the age of eighteen seems like a normal amount five times to have seen titanic in theaters. What else are you going to do? I didn't even like I have cable. It was either watch reruns of nine hundred one O or look at my book read books. <music> go to the actual movie theater. You mentioned like the unauthorized biography Leonardo DiCaprio but that's true before the Internet. They just had to publish weird books. You couldn't go look at families. I definitely I. I don't know if I had that my friend Katie who will be listening to this has a full collection. I went to her house like ten years ago and her mother had preserved it and we're talking like ten books about McCaffrey. Oh I have a V._H._S. tape sitting on my desk as an unauthorized of Leo but I found it in my fiance's like basement and like I need to bring this home and I've yet to actually see it. 'cause nobody I know owns owns for all the young people listening to this it. It was really real in the late nineties to work in order to have an internet boyfriend you actually you had to perch to pay money and you had to use several different types of technology including books and V._H._S. and I distinctly remember so I mean the Internet did exist at this point but it was very it was dial up. It was slow. I would go into my dad's office in Chicago because he she had better Internet than we did at my house so that I can look at like fan pages like <hes> the Geo Metro fan pages and and it was I would take a train. It was really much in Seoul. Did you ever print them out kate. Yes yes I did because we also used to like. Put Our hands on the copy copy machine and stuff near the ninety s oh good so fast. This is very weird but one time I actually copied the Leonardo DiCaprio unauthorized whereas biography at my dad's work like pictures of it and then headed around because I like wanted to make sure everyone knew about so I was in I was in I think I think that's a really great encapsulation of where Leonardo Leonardo DiCaprio was circuit titanic because it is it's a very different type of fame from say Brad Pitt's level of fame and I I wanNA talk briefly about it and you. We were all a little young for this. I think that I kinda Brad Pitt has always been a movie star in my consciousness which is just kind of interesting way to think about it but he obviously his big breakthrough was thelma and Louise where he's playing like a similar heartthrob role but it's kind of like yeah full grown man heartthrob. You know this is for adults. It doesn't have that Tiger beat aspect to it as which direction your head and try and get back school Murad fell through stuck here extinct on stinks so I was thinking you're going my way on your way. I think we're going to Oklahoma City not sure yeah well Dr appreciate it much and that's an eighteen ninety one and then Brad Pitt is just like the really hot grown men guy in movies for I mean I would say for four decades but that's a different conversation but it's it's interesting because you you know that's a ninety one and he spends the ninety s just like being in great movies that you would go see and Leo breaks through in a teen way and then is clearly really uncomfortable with it and spend a lot of time trying to avoid avoid it or trying to reinvent himself. At least that was my interpretation of it. I always felt that wasn't the most grateful of our appreciation kate. Did you ever feel that well. I just I found this website recently. Yes that collects all live these different nineties interviews Leo I shared it with you guys and rereading the interviews is really wild because it was so apparent how bewildered and not enthusiastic about his heart Bob staticy was and he seemed kind of panicked act. You know he grew up in like this hippie household. I think he wanted to be a character actor and then found himself sort of thrust in this position and it's quite a position to be in yeah. I don't really blame him to be honest day. Yeah Yeah it's understandable. She was I get the sense that he's always sort of looked to like. Jack Nicholson and Robert Deniro is his as his models of the kind of career that he's wanted and so you know eighteen girls are not putting up posters of Robert Deniro. You know that's true were like were they in the seventies though like with Nicholson and stuff. I don't know I the old for everyone listening. You know especially De Niro always seems like a he came in at the grown man level yeah as a post like when you think of old Timey teenyboppers I think it's a Beatles Beatles right but no I think that's a good comparison that he wanted to be a serious actor and idolize those seventies movie stars and he also seemed his never really warmed back up to titanic which which new story this week when he went to answer the question about about <hes> dine on the bed yes literally not having Brad Pitt and Margot Robbie on camera. You can watch watch that video. We'll share it so yeah. He's there was also a great interview with two caprio Tarantino and Brad Pitt in esquire this year where there's a whole long thing about how Lino Dicaprio's like I've never been in a movie that takes place over the course a couple of days and then Tarantino Movie Nerd is like <hes> Titanic. He's like Oh Leo's like basically trying to pretend like it never happened but you can understand it. A little. It was such a big deal it doesn't than it is more of a crowd pleasing blockbuster than say some of the movies he makes later and I'm sure it was dispiriting in dispiriting but Kinda just overwhelming in terms of the level of fame in the level of attention sukey Sukhi. Would you like to tell us a little bit about how he processed that level of fame and engaged with it yes he formed a sort of protective circle around himself. <hes> inches already laughing. They formed a squad posse. They call themselves the Pussy posse because they were young men who like to go out on the town and mix it up with the ladies and he sort of made these very close friends <hes> <hes> Tobey Maguire of Spiderman fame is probably the most famous but it's also there's quite a few it's like Kevin Connolly <hes> who would later go on to be in a fictional basically version of this on entourage David David Blaine the magician course Lukas Haas Sucato guy actually having a pretty good time like careerwise J._r.. Ferguson best-known Stone Has Stan on Madman. Sara Gilbert was like an sort of have yet they win. I understand it is there are like solid set set members who are like the founding members and then they have have sort of like honorary distinctions and Sara Gilbert is one of those q tip is is so I'm just interject rate here number one. We should say that we are not experts at any of this. This is all according to its very famous piece by Nancy Joe Sales in New York magazine in one thousand nine hundred where she establishes the Pussy Posse and this is the stuff of Hollywood legend so we're making our best guesses but they definitely did roam around Hollywood in the late nineties having a great time and Kate that kind of became Leo's Persona for Awhile Right. Yes I mean it has really I think also currently played into his current persona with romance in that. He's never really had a super serious girlfriend who he seems to respect as an equal he seems to think that we can channel the inner workings of Leo's mind and know about whether he's respecting some people are not what we can say is that aside from dating Giselle which will talk about he does seem to date a certain type of woman who is often younger than him and he has never been married and he's mostly seen with these girlfriends on tropical vacations and doing water sports in having a nice time. The lifespans of said relationships are somewhat short. Yes Oh yeah I mean I should. He probably respects them. They're the current girlfriends agreed actress actually but he doesn't seem to be that commits her name. Let's say her name Camilla marrone rare own great actress. That's good I suspect I do. I like her though <hes> yes so he just he became sort of the king of the Bro the Hollywood Bros.. With the Pussy posse right and he has never really deviated from that and apparently in recent years they've they've reconvened and re-christened themselves the wolf pack which is I suppose more P._C.. Term is it. Isn't that a reference to the hangover whether on purpose or not I guess it's relatively more P._C.. Think this is that's Joanna Hills influence yeah it I mean this is all nine. Hundred Ninety eight was a different time in a lot of ways in Hollywood in Pop Razzi coverage in what people would tell reporters honestly. Can you imagine anyone being like yes. We have a group of friends. They're called the Pussy posse now in two thousand eighteen. I mean I feel like Justin Bieber. Maybe an aware day should make this about but no it's interesting yeah and he does that for I mean he's still doing it but he is kind of his response to titanic is to become the Hollywood party guy and then also just start making a lot of movies with Martin scores as it's quite a run that he and with other directors but he seems to be like now. I'm only doing serious. Movies like gangs of New York the aviator the departed I mean it's really a run and then he serious at work and then has fun on his off time. Yeah we as we all showed great work life balance. Today's episode is brought to you by luminary new podcast subscription service with some of the best content around. 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There's that famous moment when they have them mashing haircuts which was just an all-time great experience for everyone and then daybreak up and then pretty soon he she marries Jennifer Aniston and this is that's. I think that's the late nineties because he's on friends in two thousand or two thousand one because he wants to do nice thing for his wife and they're lovely power couple and and then of course the scandal heard round the world branch Selena which I like. I don't really think that we can underestimate in celebrity terms. How ground shaking branch Selena was in terms of just tabloids because it kind of US weekly reinvented itself and became what it is because it covered Angelina and kind of how we all consume celebrity news changes result our concept of power couples goals and celebrity couples which was definitely you know? The portmanteau was a thing it's still is. I guess even though we've run out of good combinations did branch Alina come before the Ben Affleck Benefactor bene-. For the first one was bandages Benfer as the first one we actually we did it another podcast on a ringer dish `bout benef- her. I did it with Julia and Amelia so you guys check that out but yeah that was the first one and then I think brand Joel Nina is when and it's like two as a trend like center for walks so brutally could fly exactly other better for which I'd forgotten we do this podcast. It's like they were really only together for six months. It was really up and down the whole time and was a mess and and the thing about branch Selena was that you had one marriage breaking up. You had another come together. You had three unbelievably famous people you had the real sexist team jody team Aniston aspects of it which I I say that like I I didn't have opinions wasn't super invested in it which I was like World Hyun where you I was partial to the Aniston of at all now all right. What am I saying? I was sort of seeing an in Angelina. I mean I'm here for the drama. You know we have podcast and it was it was so fascinating for the drama. Obviously I also here for men taking responsibility for their actions so I don't really like Brad Pitt was married to generate just further record and I really like Mr Mrs Smith. I think that's a movie I that's the main thing team Angelina okay. I was hard core Ryan Team Angelina and yes. I am aware this is a harmful framing but whatever I was on team Angelina all these years later I might be teaming. It's tough I went back and reread the Vanity Fair article that Jennifer Aniston Jason did after the divorce it was like finally Jennifer speaks and you know she's in that white shirt. I thank you know on the cover <hes> and she makes the famous comment about missing sensitivity chip that stuff is is is brutal and again is far more candid than I think anyone would be in two thousand eighteen which is fascinating. It's fascinating the accent which we know so much about both of these people and their lives because both the coverage was more interested in them and it somehow is less managed. Even though I think it was super managed at the time it's just I can't imagine Jennifer Aniston sitting on the cover vanity fair and crying to reporter and being like here's what happened in my love life anymore it just it's. It's just doesn't seem like it would happen well. I'm trying to think because it also feels like it's important to note like the mediums through which we got all this stuff. <hes> I'm trying to like Brad Pitt would be in the notes APP Chrissy Teigen in John Legend God forbid separated or something this huge if legend then started dating Cardi B. or whatever like this would all play out on social social media pretty quickly. I feel like yeah and I don't know there's some sort of like mysticism that it's in glossy magazines I think also because this you know since this is technically a podcast about Brad Pitt he would bear a lot more responsibility for what happened in two thousand eighteen. He really did not back in the day it was you know there was the terrible stuff about how they're all these rumors about. How Brad Pitt wanted kids and AH Jennifer Aniston was like quote to focus on her career so she wouldn't which I I can't even believe I repeated that because it's so toxin sexist but that was a part of the conversation at the time and he it really was Jennifer versus Angelina he was just kind of the vehicle for a lot of this and I think kate? I think that would be different. Now I think so to although I do think that one of the reasons why brad got a bit overlooked in the whole thing is because frankly Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Aniston are more interesting celebrities <hes> they hit slander and I I know I'm sorry that he was responsible for you to tango but like Joe don't come to my house and say that about Brad Pitt responsible but he and I'm not knocking his acting or charisma but I don't know if I was going to have dinner with anyone in out of those three people he would be last on the list. Wow Oh I got to be honest. I'm sorry what's your ranking for Derek. I think it's Angelina not know Brad Angelina. It's tough to mind as we can couches. The whole time about the couch. Couches are embiid with like to talk about architecture with Brett I became I think you so charming. I think that that's such an essential part of his appeal. Oh and I think that's part of why he's a great actor and part of why he's been a celebrity for so long as I just find him so he lights up he has charisma. It's like paddle. You mean to him yeah well. I was about to being limited to Capri because I don't feel that he has the same charisma I think you put your your finger on it when you said he wanted to be a character actor and he's been trying to get back to that character actor situation his whole life unlike and maybe honestly he has with once upon a time in Hollywood and I'm interested in the glamour. I'm interested in the charm. This is a podcast about movie stars. I feel like that is what's appealing about Brad Pitt but you don't pick up on that no no I do. I feel like I was slandering bread a little heat. It's not that he's not charismatic entrusting. I just think that Angelina seems like such a character. I actually would WANNA have dinner with her because I think it would be just a spectacle not because I think she you're doing this for journalism and now for personal enjoy that well for her Aniston. I think would would actually be the most fun to hang out with and Brad just sort of in the middle so it's not I don't coming to slay Brad. I just find both of those women to be very very interesting in him to be pretty interesting yeah in terms of having things to share information that I'm interested in I would guess re with you but in terms of experience experience I wanNA hang out with Brad Pitt which you know is. Maybe a great summary for the different ways that we respond to celebrity. I think you what's interesting is also at this moment careerwise. This is the oceans era and he's doing oceans. He's doing troy. He's does Mrs Smith and obviously that's where he meets Angelina Jolie but he's Kinda coasting on the Brad Pitt charm as well and that is that's both his movie star. That's like his career persona and he's getting away with a lot lot offscreen as we've learned and it's funny how the Brand Jelena's thing affects his career because after it he starts getting he starts getting pretty weird and there's like you know there's the legends of the fall and then fight club Brad Pitt then there's oceans Brad Pitt and then there's like the assassination of Jesse James Effort after reading and inglorious bastards and like tree of Life Brad Pitt where he's experimenting and doing things that he thinks are interesting is what it seems like but it does seem like all of the very public celebrity like the intense Brandolini of it all I mean they couldn't go anywhere for I mean a decade really but especially like in the mid to thousands of so intense and he was so famous that he seems to have responded to it by being like well. I don't have to do movie star roles anymore and it's just interesting to me how the offscreen green stuff can really affect the choices that people make in their careers because I think it was true of Leo a titanic and it Kinda the you know the Brad Pitt as an actor as we know him now is I think really different from Mr Mrs Smith Arab Andrew. Do you disagree no. I think you're I think you're right. I think it's also interesting to look at Angelenos filmography alongside Brad's because they kind of coincide in the way that they get a little more are serious and take on things that are quote unquote more and more important just like she has like changeling and a mighty Har- and in the land of blood and honey right didn't she direct one of those to like I feel like this landon in a blood and honey yeah when we were they were buckling down and trying to make a difference in the world <unk> being celebs yeah okay so this is probably a bad takeaway morally but could stop it so like the horrors of `Paparazzi and overwhelming fame really made Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt's career is better and more interesting Jhangvi. The lesson here is that the Paparazzi are good yeah. That's I mean here arts not for life I arts. I think one thing that's important to know. I think what you said about fame making them. Both make interesting decisions. Nations is definitely true. I think a little bit of that is that they're just like to classically handsome white guys in in an area where in a in a time in Hollywood where that just met you do whatever you want it and there were just more roles for for them. There's also the thing of once you get really famous than you can. Start doing the things that you want to do so I guess in that sense. The PAPARAZZI helped I again. This is a podcast that is in large part built around things from Paparazzi photos so I can't pretend to be above and I think that I just I'm reluctant to should be like it's objectively good. How about that? I'm a fair I'm just saying it's good for me as a viewer. It's obviously don't you think is that still true. Do People get really famous now and then they do the interesting stuff like Chris Evans. How are we feeling about his career post Captain America I? I don't know that he's making the right rate decisions but he's certainly trying to be more serious. He's necessarily my guy when I think about that. I think about Shiloh buff who I really liked in American honey who I think is a good actor and who sort of transitioned from child stardom and like the transformer transformer series into this sort of mode yeah show has had some ups and downs though shy is also a real example of the ways in which the Paparazzi can I know undermine yeah and that sort of thing that it is remarkable marketable that some that Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt have for the most part of voided the pitfalls though I guess you know we just talked a lot about their peak movies are seven. We should talk about kind of the Post Nice to movies star phase which they're both kind of in right now I mean they're they're Leonardo DiCaprio Brad Pitt there two of our generations greatest movie stars but they have been a little bit more in the margins the last few years which is why once upon monetize Hollywood is such an occasion for us and they have for different reasons obviously Brad Pitt Angelina Jolie split up and that was ugly and then he did an interview with G. Q. Talking about how he was in place and his struggle with substances absences and he's kind of he's worked through that and seems to be on the other side of it which is great and in a lot of ways I I wouldn't call it a comeback. I don't think you can have a comeback. If you're Brad Pitt 'cause you're so famous famous but narrative speaking it was this is an up point after a few down years. Is that fair to say Andrew Yeah I mean he went through some like real life shit. We're it was the stories coming out where the the fight on the plane and there's a literal F._B._i.. Investigation about his parenting like that's that's real real life stuff. That's not just like a celebrity is making news so he and he did kind of receipt a little bit. You know he had allied. I think was the movie that's a really tough one Marion Cotillard courtyard yeah yeah yeah and I and I think that's the worst performance I've ever seen. Now I do and I like as a fan of his in you know you can I think that came two months came out two months after the plane incident and his the announcement of divorced so you you know it's on their messed up stuff around that where it's like oh they must have gotten divorced because he in Marianne courtyard or dating. I remember that race so it was like this is literal literal <hes> dark period and ends at least as a as an actor and as a celebrity kate when we were preparing for this you pointed out he has been really successful producer yeah and I think he definitely deserves credit for that like plan. B. Is doing some amazing work and yeah May and maybe he wants to be transitioning into a behind the scenes role more like maybe he is just only GonNa be in a movie once every five years from here now. I don't know so he does deserve credit for that but yeah fifty five years old. He looks amazing amazing my guys fifty five. I've never seen a fifty five year old like in the history of time. It looks like this and you know in Leonardo. DiCaprio is a bit younger but it's still he's forty four bit younger. That's so rude. Is Up he's younger. We'll brad look so good that they basically look like yeah temporary right yeah they put their reaching the age where you're not automatically leading man in the conventional romantic sense ads which doesn't really matter because no one makes this movies anymore but that sense of the stories about you. It's not always the case so you're right that they have to you know they're figuring out different things. It's it's interesting to compare Brad's last three or four years to Leo's last three or four years Andrew. How would you describe Leo's last five years <hes> well so at the beginning beginning of this period we have him finally winning in Oscar and sort of like bringing a close to this period of like desperately? Oh I think like screams. Internally is one of the better memes ever made. That's just does face at a Golden Globes I think after not winning an award and it's just sort of closed mouth smirking so he he wins he finally wins in Oscar. It's like a huge triumph for him. You can tell that it's a big deal for him. I like the most Boring Oscars Digest yes. It's terrible and sorry kate. It's time with them remnant. Yeah I hate that movie. No I'd I even the movie I know I cared about Leonardo DiCaprio's Oscar speech after like twenty years of why don't they give Leo an Oscar he's one of our greatest actors and it was the most boring speech ever seen but there is this. There's like a video you could probably go and find it of him standing there while they edge his name into the trophy and he's just like he's kind of like a kid. I don't know he just like you could feel how badly he personally needed the award. I'm happy for him. I wish she got it for movie. I liked but I'm happy for him after after that though it's like a weird lull in like a dark period where he's not doing doing that much. He's sort of like he's dived into environmentalism. I mean let's like really going for that like all right. He's got a whole nonprofit. Honestly the the environment needs help thank you Leonardo Dicaprio and the only thing about it is that I mean it is like the greatest crisis facing our generation jokes so I appreciate it but he it's so boring he still has made this really dire dire situation and like really ernest work ah dedicated to it just seem really boring so boring about it he had this has been a pretty good time for Leo memes well. That's that's what I was leading to. The fact that there is an actual Leo content on the screen has now led to the fact that he's literally a like. I think there's a whole cottage industry of Leo memes just based on Instagram or not in Scrim sorry Paparazzi photos where the screams internally thing happened kind of simultaneously with him running around with a squirt gun <hes> which is one of the better `Paparazzi photos. I've raising is that contemporaneous with Joanna Hill Him yeah like Joan with phone. The black as there are no now okay. That's like that's I think this is like the peak of like Summer Leo Yes Summer Leo so inspirational where she hot boys he's riding around on city bikes like every day and Yang photographed on city bikes like blowing huge smoke clouds of vape deep into like Battery Park. Yeah I was GonNa say that the defining image of Leonardo DiCaprio in the last five years to me. It's just water sports yeah. It's either him with that. Little jetpack thing that you go to water or on a boat coach or it's just Leo having a great time in the water. which is you know jam sessions number one interest when I see when I see that photo of him writing that jetpack I think that is what a celebrity doing that to me? He has reached sched the goal. That is what you should do if you're that famous ride a frigging water jet pack. I wish I was doing that right now. Yeah Andrew to your point of him. Idolizing Kinda seventies people you mentioned Jack Nicholson and it does Kinda seem like it's that's the model he's like basically he has both Jack Nicholson at Lakers games and you know living a great life which is what Jack Nicholson does but he's also basically Jack Nicholson character from something's gotTa give that's the Msci Myers Movie Rada Data. Which I you know I think someone will write a play about him in his seventies? I hope yeah he it's true he's just he's made it through the celebrity wilderness and now just gets to have a nice time and make movies movies like once upon a time in Hollywood which it seems that I'm really excited about. It's interesting like the madness of this movie that they're both comment to you know this movie is about Hollywood and a lot of we haven't seen it yet by the way I should say that but our understanding of it is that it's about Hollywood fifty years ago and events that happened then but as always with Quentin Tarantino movie is commenting on how we connect to the movies and how we can actually the fame and so it's it's interesting what they're both at a place where they're actually willing to participate in that. I wouldn't have said that either of them is really the most self reflective of celebrities Kate you disagree. No I think I agree honestly. It's hard had to say I feel like I actually don't know it. Leonardo DiCaprio's personality is like at all and yet your favorite celebrity because of that because he's like the cipher that I can project all the serpent King I you think since since that Leo Principal City the Nancy Joe sales piece there's kind of Ben like a huge course correction for him where he's he cemented the people around him and then like I'm going to be close with eight people. I'm going to be close with my mom close with my dad and I'm not going to really give anyone else anything in NYC. He'll do an interview but you'll read it and you'll be like I don't. I'm not any closer to knowing this guy. No like the big rumor about him is about how distant he is in in romantic relationships. That's that's really what Hudson let's. Let's keep it classy. We've got to classy. That's far if you'd like to for jams. I shouldn't Leonardo Dicaprio a romantic rumors. I'm sure you'll find it. Yes this is a key. I'm interested the same more of why that appeals to you because he's a safer because is that more does that appeal to you more than actress celebrity as boasts. I like as a celebrity. It feels different now because we're in this age where the younger stars are so available on social media and are always trying to deliver this narrative to their fans about who they are and he just seems really interested in doing that and way more interested in like riding water jet packs I and I I like it and I respect it. I hope I never meet him because I don't WanNa know anymore really yeah Andrew. What about you? I Yeah I agree. I think it's it's like he's just like Kate so you don't really we know who he is. So the only updates you get are these like weird public moments where he's kind of like acting a fool and he's also he's also one of the most recognizable movie stars we have and yet he just looks around in cargo shorts newsboy caps and <hes> baseball caps more specifically and it's just it's it's like this incongruous thing that I for some reason can't get enough of and he's more than happy to be photograph like playing beach volleyball. He's willing to play like a very specific celebrity role and then otherwise just have a nice time which I guess Brad Pitt a little less oh given what he's gone through in the last five years but it's the same thing where they neither really has to be out in public that much anymore. They don't really have to give that many interviews except for the ones that they're contractually obligated to give to promote movies vs but they were just they were so famous for so long kind of have held on as movie stars that now they just really get to enjoy it and it's fine it. It seems reasonably nice for them and it's nice for us as well. There's a lot of work going going into it either them or as as people who are interested in them which is nice yeah there. I mean they're they're now like hanging out with their friends. Yeah make movies that would be great. That's a goal for all of us. Here's my last question for you guys. Is there an equivalent to these guys to Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio today either Kinda in the in their early fame mold like who is there someone here like Oh. That's the next Leo or it. Is there someone who is kind of doing the same thing famous or are they Kinda Chew Very Special Unique snowflake movie stars. I I was trying to think of off like a comparison and I'd just like can't like you brought up. Tom Hall and earlier <hes> and I guess in terms of like age and level of fame. He fits but he doesn't have this sort of like mystique. Speak and part of that is the fact that he looks like he's still looks like a boy. He's a Tobey Maguire guys know she determined Maguire but he's a Tobey Maguire. He's like growing pains Leo at this point to saying that because of it <hes> the Spiderman yes that Spiderman movies. Have you watched anytime hollins content. I'm a he's he's. I've literally never seen him in a movie. I barely know who he is. He's he's really charming gate but he is also it to Andrews point kind of playing along a little more than like part of being spiderman and part of being famous now is is doing the public act in a way that I don't think Leo or Brad ever had to do and in fact shunned in a lot of ways yeah and all the like if you look up the highest grossing actors from Twenty Nineteen they're all people in Superhero movies and they're all people who have to do this promo that definitely takes away some sort of <hes> edge. I guess what about Shallow May Timothy Shall I mean he does have that sort of hurt. throb thing that we owe had when Leo was really Lanky like the Pre Titanic Leo feels it. Ladybird Lady Bird felt like some Real Romeo and Juliet to me of people being like Oh this guy and he's playing a certain type of a teen that you know and then he's just going to be in forty five really great he he he likes Frank Ocean as much as Brad Pitt. I think shallow may is hard though because he doesn't have that roguishness I feel like Shell mate is. He seems like such a sweetheart yet but your kids now want roguishness freshness. I don't know I mean that's another. It's like I don't know whether the same qualities apply I feel like earnestness is actually working in his favor yeah but not in the same way that it's not it's just different. You know it's true and it's also like I I think Timothy is going to be in little women which is Greta Gerwig new movie and Etretat think we'll do like actually really well now. He's also going to be in Dune which a lot of people young people that we work with care about. I don't like he's he's in a lot of big deal movies but none of those we're going to be as big as titanic and to Andrew. I think you said at the beginning of the podcast this idea that some of it is just like we don't have the same mass market cultural products so you can't really get a Leo or a Brad Pitt anymore is also just like in terms of Timothy Xiaomei like Leo and I think to a larger extent Brad Pitt sort of had this. It's like Paul Newman thing or Robert Redford thing going on and Timothy Xiaomei just doesn't just like by the way he looks and but by the way he's literally shaped. He's got a jazz name. Okay Wow how China's name what are you doing. That's all right but he looks. I don't know there's something I just think that the he's never he's not a honk. He's not going to be a hunk. He's always going to be a lot of people. Oh said that about Leonardo DiCaprio in nineteen ninety six. I'm going to be honest with you then he filled out. Maybe the next generation <unk> fill out to you. I think I think what we're trying to say here. Brad Brad Pitt Leonardo DiCaprio twice in a lifetime stars yeah they might be the last of their kind. I think they are yeah. Yeah which I think is what this movie is a little bit of Bam well. We'll see we'll find out I like. I really depressed now because I want more Brad Pitt's in my life and Leo's but primarily Brad Pitt. It's being really really honest all right. We will find out guys. This has been great Kate Andrew. Thank you for joining us. Thank you everyone for listening. We will be back with jam session.

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