Starting 9 Episode #96 - Ron Gardenhire
Welcome back to starting nine episode ninety six. Dow's Brayden here. If you couldn't tell Justin havens also in the house after shoulder workout who picked up you picked up a gym routine recently. Which is you Jay that is, is that as new roommate, this new roommate's named Jim routine. Walking right by the gym and admiring. It. Got a bus pass BJ's of good guy. Ron Gardenhire on the podcast today gall skipper down Detroit, Michigan Ardy just a fucking fan. Fave. Karam's a player favors. Well, I love me some Gardy. Yeah. Still legend in Minnesota. But is a is a national treasure now residing in Detroit, Michigan with the with the Tigers. They're you know, I gotta ask this. I don't know if you noticed this, I did, and I gave I gave little to no FOX about it at the time, and there was no disrespect involved whatsoever whatsoever. Because each and every team that, that accommodated us throughout the spikes up toward was fucking amazing. Stealth a little bad, though. Because, you know, here they are the tiger the front office, not the front office. But the media, the whatever and everything we hit him with. With was essentially either Joe Mauer or twins related. And it's like we would love to really give you some shine right now on the club. You know that you're currently with but this is really this isn't about Abrahams. Yet Shen of the Detroit Tigers this about wrong fucking Gardenhire, folks, will will we also got to talk to. I mean if you're if you're wrong Gardenhire, yeah, I can see the whole you focus on the twins instead of the Tigers. But I think Tigers can't was where we got the most guests. So I mean we we had. Who is it one two three four four Tigers for three or four tires? Yeah. I mean that was for out of all the teams and major league baseball. You could make the case. If you had the best access with the Detroit Tigers. So we'll roll these guys in and that's after obviously not in spring training. But, you know, if you months prior, we had Shane green and Cassiano Saen. So I would say that the Detroit Tigers are probably the most well represented team invades league baseball on the starry night podcast there bears. Yeah. The Tigers have earned their stripes, plus had that crazy dude from the digital show the rest. No, he's, he's an absolute legend tie in a lot of shine here. Yeah. He's, he's a great follow on Twitter. Because, you know, the Tigers aren't exactly the most interesting ball club these days, but he's watching all one, sixty two in reacting to all one sixty two mental English is I'm here for that. Yeah, man. But yeah, I mean you know, the Tigers I mean, there's still some guys in that team believe it or not that I would love to talk to I think that there might even be some of those conversations happening relatively relatively quickly with me now. I you guys aren't soccer fans. Are you life life long? Soccer fan. No, j just looks like one, no. Yeah. Yeah. The part. No soccer for me. I would like to motion to relegate the Baltimore Orioles. I am. I am. I'm in favor of relegation. I think what, what do you think about that, because that ugly T-word that starting to creep around our game journey fucking like it? I don't like taking don't wanna hear it. I love the idea of the Baltimore Orioles potentially having to take a month worth of tour through the PC L the Pacific coast league. Maybe actually you're going to play your road trip in the international league now. That's what you're going to go do. It's men. It's not a it's not a great product. Is it as bad, as, as bad and shadowed arty, t he's the, he's the Orioles blow blogger for barstool and before that collapse? He called it like even like an Orioles fan, who you have to be a fan to watch that team on a nightly basis. He texted the group Tech's edna's. Like we're losing this game, and they were up what like seven six of two or something like that. He's out now. We're losing this game. Don't you don't you talk like that? Don't talk like that. And, and as sure as shit did look it wasn't even, you know, credits, Gary Sanchez. I mean he's he's been a monster this year. But, I mean, the Orioles basically opened the door in invited the Yankees to come back and win that game, which was just it was insane. So I try to start the the petition last night to devote the Baltimore Orioles to a triple A team until until they can prove that they can feel the major league club. And I feel bad for a guy like trae Manzini who he's going to be in Cleveland this year. If there's going to be like, that's the thing, too, is like, you know, you have these representatives at the all star game ago. You gotta be represented even even the shitty teams they got have one person trae man would be an all star on a team that had five stars. Yes, trimming teeny, is an all star. Is that I mean that that's it? That's it. There's, there's really what else? We. Yeah. Mean. Well, you know, when Chris Davis started hitting baseballs again. People were like, hey, you know, Chris Davis is going to be a real like an e the representation for the Baltimore Orioles. Could he be there only all star is if he Faulk and makes it over trae Manzini, then that's just like major league baseball trying to have a good story because they love their stories. They love their stories at the all star game says everything to do exactly trae Manzini. Book your flight now book your flight. Now you're gonna you'll be representing the Baltimore Orioles in the midsummer class. I'd love to sit down with trae Manzini and talked to them. Hey that's, that's our new goal. Write this down J. Hey, we will be at the all star game. We're making our plans. We're gonna be doing a shit ton of stuff. Some of it is already confirmed pretty exciting shit, Dallas. I might add some pretty exciting strip that we're going to be involved in, but we're also trying to come come up with new ideas. Our own ideas things that we can be doing at the all star game. You should tweet us. What should we be doing? The all star game. We'll do it. But a man prior. Priority. Getting more interviews we try to that. That's kind of like the main focus of starting nine is to bring you access to the players that are either on your favorite team. Or maybe they're not on your favorite team. And you never even knew what type of personalities existed across the game. Because you're focused on your own team don't work. We've got you covered. So the all star game is going to be a playground of sorts for us to bring you brand new baseball, content and trae Mancini, I'm gonna put him right on the list. And you know what to Dallas, tell me we have a contacts with trae Sienese? I'm not even gonna say, like oh that's going to be like a wishlist. It's going to be a hey, if you're available it's going down. Let's get it done. I get my grandma wish. Let's get it done. But I'll ask you both if there's one team in major league baseball that you would nominate to be relegated. Would it be the Baltimore Orioles probably have to roll with the fish, or would it be the Miami Marlins fish? Got a role. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just all the BS that surrounded the Marlins and the jeeter takeover. And look, I'm still not over them firing the fucking Marlin over them, getting rid of the Marlin. That just threw me through. That's how you feel. He'll like if you're just you're gonna purge the entire organization, you have to fire the mascot as icing on the cake. I mean and, and for the record folks that did not happen, but the fire Jeffco nine aka Michelle, they know that it was to events. So they said, we're firing like Mr. Marlin, which was in reference to Jeffco nine right? And then they actually did fire the mascot. So the mascot was officially fired. So he was officially let go so saw who'd on this is this is this is groundbreaking shit to me right now because I had been, I've been living my life, this entire time under the premise that Mr. Marlin, aka Jeffco nine was fired. When I read that the first time I was like, oh my fucking, God, they've even fired the fish, the even got rid of the mascot, and then someone slapped me across space, like no idiot. Mr. Marlin is Jeff Cohn. I but they've hired him if fire way. Oh, spared. The mascot spares. Spares they fired when they first came in. I was one of the first orders of business was, like, Jack mckeon all of about. Who else was there? There's Jack mckeon, there's Jeffco nine Andre Dawson. Maybe. Yeah. He got fired. And then Perez. I think Tony these guys were all like Bassett is to the fucking. Oh my God. Yes. All right. I'm at the bar still headquarters where they're just drilling holes in the wall in the middle of the day. Yeah. It says right here, February sixth Miami Marlins fired. The man who plays the team mass kennel. Yeah. I had really I thought I'd come to terms with this. I thought I had made my piece, they fired all of them, they fired every single last one of them. Yeah. No, that's absolutely. Yeah. Louis beat it. Could you imagine? And, and then the ownership is forced to attend these game and sit in the stands or sit. Like, like you got a shirt, Gordon, stay in your box, but you're, you're going to be staying in your box at the fuck fucking AA wherever you. Sitting in those seats, should I call time out and try and find a new conference room. If just gonna be it sounds like a whale as being fucked in the ass. Can you hear that I thought there was a I thought there was a missile headed towards headquarters, and that we just let me. He sounds like sounds like. Are you gonna? Going off right now. I'm gonna try and I'll take you guys with me. This is fun. This is good for the this is good pod. Just make sure yet body this out. I'm not even sure. I wanted it. This is this is inside barstool headquarters right now, as far as I'm concerned, I to me, there's actually, no, it's not even close. I know that relegation in soccer in practice is a one year thing. Right. So you just if you're in the bottom X than you, you fall down into the lower league. But if we're just instituting it on the fly in major league baseball like bam. There's relegation the Marlins have earned it in a way that no other team could possibly. It's been a total team effort. It's finished total team effort and also like I get it. They've won two World Series. But like if you just did away with their history like the Marlins don't exist anymore. Like if you did that to the Orioles, that would make me kind of sad and a lot of ways. Right. Because they have like their franchise that maybe not in Baltimore. But as a franchise overall goes back quite a ways. They have one World Series. They have signature players in baseball history that are part of their fabric, Jim Palmer, Frank Robinson. Cal ripken. Jonathan VR V, John. So. Yeah it's the Marlins. No question. You wipe them out, and nobody in south Florida will care very few people will care and heartbreaking, though. Isn't it heartbreaking thing? It's very sad. When the Marlins were were revamping and reopen and they were bringing Ozzy gin in because of the strong Cuban contingency, and the connection between the Latin American fan base, and the Latin American manager. And then, you know, all it took was a few hot minutes, and a couple of Fidel comments, and that shit went south. Yeah. Very quickly. We were we were there like on the precipice of the Miami Marlins baseball organization. Being been a thing could it could have been a thing. And now we're having a conversation where if the Miami Marlins were asked to just pack it in or forced to go play somewhere else. We're actually talking about. The impact not not being really of of magnitude. Yeah. And I also think like. In respect to that like stadium opening like team on the rise Ozzy Ian sort of thing like I do think that was shown to be a pretty empty situation to overall because it took them like like a season worth of not meeting expectations to completely sell off and tear down like that entire thing that they had built look. Putting a ton of stock into the Ozzy comments. All right. I'm not gonna say that, that was hugely impactful as we watch our dear friend corrobos run cable into what can only be described now as a holding tank, like if you are arrested for shoplifting or if you're a suspicious person someone might come up and tap you on the shoulder. Walked you through the back of the department store into this room within handcuffed to a bench for the next eight hours until someone responsible can come and pick you up? That's where Jerry doing is I thought for a second there, I thought that you would doing an address now's, like what the fuck we sell it. Selling your free to just we're we're fucking Hawkin holding cells now. Use promo code starting nine about and sell installed in your house today, her code cellblock four. I mean, this is fucking unbelievable. I'm now on the business floor and the internet like doesn't work like designed do is out. Okay. Yeah. You sound great. Okay. 'cause I, I came up here, and you guys are straight up cutting out and I was like this is I mean, we have fucking podcast studios where they're drilling holes in the wall. And we got like these conference rooms upstairs with no fucking internet. I mean God damn what a place what time. So as inspired as your oriole's contraction, take was we reached the conclusion at the Marlins or actually the more deserving of the two. I, I agree. I mean I for as for as pathetic as the as the Baltimore Orioles, are when you take a step back and you get rid of the recency bias of last night's embarrassing loss for the Orioles, the Miami Marlins. I mean up and down. You're just like this t get this team out of the. Like you do not belong here, sir. And I trust me. I hate seeing shit like this because as a former ballplayer, and is a player who's been apart of any reason why teams have been shitty. I understand I fully get it like you're looking to your left to your right going where you're terrible. And you're not sure good. I'm not fucking good either. Right now. You know what's, what sucks is? We are collectively, we suck as, as a knit, and there's nobody around us as I look up and down this bench right now. And I look throughout this Lavalle, there's nobody that can make any fucking better. I can't make it any better. Like if I go out rattle off ten good out. I'm not gonna make this any better or fucking terrible. Collectively? We are dog shit. That's a horrible place to be as, as an athlete, because you're trying to get yourself. Right. And you're looking around like I said to the left and right. You realize these guys looked bitterly ballplayers, and you hate to have that conversation where you're going are. They are they in. It's like, well, yeah, they are because they're given an opportunity or they've earned the opportunity. But the bottom line is you put a collective group of guys who may not be wholly ready for this opportunity. This is the kind of shit that you get. I've played on softball teams where we were begging people who had no business being on the softball field to come play for us. And I've been on softball teams where we reached ties that. Perhaps nobody else could have ever even imagined. So I totally totally get what's going on here. Hi. I'm with you there without without looking who has the worst run differential the Orioles of the Marlins. The marlins. Yeah. I would say the Marlins. Oh, no. You know what? I'm gonna say the Orioles. That is the Orioles. The oils, because of who they've been played because because the beast the beast, that's yeah. In Rhode sweep, not the roads, the yeah. The sweep for the Marlins kind of just help that or not. I guess the Mets. Yeah. That was. Tough that stuff. I mean, I, I was tempted to put the Mets in the conversation for being relegated as well. It is a fucking gung show over there, and we'll get to that in a second but first is baseball season. That means you're on deck for a full summer of snacking, eating, and drinking, which means it's time to grub on the delicious juicy barbecue that you love as much as your team this season. Kingsford is celebrating the best barbecue in baseball with the release of the taste of game cookbook, featuring thirty regional dishes, inspired by the teams cities and flavors of major league baseball. You can find your team's recipe online at Kingsford dot com slash taste of the game. And there's dashes between those words that's not all one word kings for dot com slash tastes. Dash of dash the dash game or by your own hard copy of the book later, this summer at kinks for dot com or on Amazon, not only does it include all thirty recipes, the book digs into the cultural influences on food and baseball featuring interviews with some of the game's biggest international stars like David Ortiz. And Omar viviscal Kingsford taste of the game. It's time you step up to the plate. Yup. Okay, what's your dish? If you. We all know that the only fire, you know, how to start is the skin fire. Let's say you knew how to light barbecue. Actual meat meat. That was dead, not your own meat on that barbecue and cook it, what is your dish? What is the the regional Saugus barbecue? Delight I'm a big poll. Pork guy. Oh, pulling piggies. Yeah. Big pulled pork guy, shutout Texas. I know that like Texas likes to, to beat their chest on a lot of different things. I I'm here for what you're about to do right now. I'm just saying that the people in Texas, they pride themselves on their poll pork, and it lives up to the hype. I think the best pulled pork I've ever had is down in Dallas oak. All I thought I thought you were getting ready to pooh-pooh known. No, no, no, no, no doubt in Houston. I've had the pulled pork down there, and it's, it's the best I've ever had in my life barbecue. And the death penalty couple of things. Texas does does. Right. Might. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry is what it is thinking to say wrong. But that's probably a different podcast van of the express lane. Get a goal. What are we doing here? Try tip guy jeered. That's what we do out here on the west coast. That's doing northern California tried tip. Tip guy. So catching your big rotisserie pig guy. Oh, that cesspit is family barbecue special, it'd pork you put it in a whole Jared, where you put it you put that pig in a whole, you'll by the way for anybody out there, who's watched queer eye. You know what I'm talking about third season here. But there was this. They're barbecue sisters that were featured on that show that run Jones barbecue and you can now buy their sauce online. And my dad sent me some of the sauce, Hobo quote. Wow. Is it some of the best barbecue sauce I've ever had ashtec no free? It's but damn well, we'll have to look into that. That's my guy. What do you got on cesspit is snapping his wheel gotta flat? Tire out in Florida. I mean, here's the thing about this is that I mean, God bless Mets fans. That's all I gotta say when this came out, Kevin Clancy KFC was doing the rundown, and they happen to catch his reaction live. And he fell to his knees. He fell to his knees. Because when the news broke originally it was that he broke both of his ankles, that has since been retracted. It's only it's only one ankle. But the fact that they had to preface this news by saying that he didn't fall off a horse. They're like, hey guys, he broke his ankle at his ranch was not a horse related incident. So. I think they're like, yeah. No, don't worry about it. It's it's not a horse related injury. Only one ankle this time. And was it yesterday? Three forty five. The, the Mets had a announced that they were gonna have a press conference and many of us here. New York thought okay. It's, you know, Calloway's getting the axe and this is going to be a solemn press conference, instead spend zone or keeping the manager, but yoyos gut fucking snapped Hank. That's that's two fold though, crops, because that first initial, hey, it's Patsy standby man. That's like obviously you know it's good to know that your job is safe for now. But if you're the skipper, like take me through that, Dallas. If you're the skipper of the Mets, right? You guys are what five six games under five hundred. Everyone wants you fired to turn this thing around the team needs to hold a press conference to say, hey guys, we're actually not firing him. Does that make you feel better? No. And no it shouldn't because that is the nice way of gathering. Everybody up getting everybody in the same room and them being the front office looking at you being the manager in front. All your peers in front of everyone going, we've got total confidence that this is the right man for the job. Right. Mickey, you know what to do to get these boys going, don't you, Mickey and we do too. That's why Mickey is still our guy. That is said without a blink of an eye. That is said with the front office staring a bucking hole directly through Mickey Callaway going because if it ain't MC. That's exact-. That, that is all that was all. That was so doesn't make you feel good. Absolutely not. Do you know what it was for? Absolutely. It was to tell everybody that I have officially been put on notice and actually, I just got put on notice in front of all of you. That's exactly what this meeting was. So I'm still the right guy because frankly, if they fire me right now. What is that gonna do for them? They're losing superstars who are falling down python holes on their ranches in Florida. They've got they got nothing going for him right now. I'm going to be the scapegoat side note Jay, where do you fall on this? I'm thinking about this now. Picturing, Dallas as he's sort of having these these role play conversations within the walls of the Mets front office. If Dallas in were the general manager or president of baseball operations of baseball team. They would either win forty games or a hundred twenty games. It's going to be one or the other based on his his his, his motivational speeches on which side of the spectrum, do you fall intern in terms in terms of do our people. Receptive to Dallas is threats of his, his veiled threats of firing people, his reign of terror. Yes. Yeah, it would music, tater ship, it would be the sort of organization where like bought holes would just be. All the time. It'd be like, oh, yeah, we're super laid back here. Everything's chill. Like we were we're joggers and backwards hats. But. Walks by right? It would be it would be like the Yankees in the seventies, but casual. I mean funny kick ass book a problem with that. But if you're not kicking ass, you've got to fucking go. I'm trying to think of who's, who's Dallas guy from the as it would be like, like, Darin. Martin would be his Billy Martin just hire and fire him like twenty seven times. It'd be landed pal. It would be too, because so many times, like Landon, and I would just fuck you yell at Wyndham just yell and be and I don't know if you guys could see this or not. But, but I mean at times, and I, I would I would get angry with landed just sometime because Landon would fall victim to the fastball finger, meaning shit wasn't going well for Landon your fuck with Rohan fastballs. I if Landon was late on a fastball at the dish, just what you're going to be throwing next inning fastballs fund who heater Peter, Peter oa-to fastball away. Why so I can throw this guy out? Well fuck you land, and they're not here to watch you for a mother fuckers out there, so you just gotta have that back and forth. That's yeah. I mean, yeah, it's, you know, Dallas is going to have disagreements with his guys, but he still loyal to a fault and he's going to have his blow up. So therefore, he's going to have some sort of random as alumni. By managing his team in which he fires two to three times per season, but still manages the team over parts of sixteen years. Which I donate. Yes. Need more of that game? He wouldn't more that. Oh, man bring back the Billy Martin's of the world. What are the Mets do with, with cesspit is at this point? I mean he hasn't he hasn't seen a single pitch this year. So that was, you know, doc. He comes back. He's going to be held. You're gonna be thirties. Never coming back. I bet we never see him play for the Mets again, what's, you'll be already five years old, and dimmed your two years removed from seeing major league caliber pitching. Right. What do you what do you expect to give back? What do you? And also, this much remember I was somebody who bore witness to Cessnas being introduced to this caliber of baseball initially came up and those batting practice sessions. Looked like he was going to have the bat physically either knocked out of his hand or he was not even going to come close to touching majorly. Baseball's or major league off speed. Well he. Righted that ship say that worked out fairly well, but giving that seem sort of time to prepare think about the time off now two years of not seeing this caliber pitching, two years, older, and definitely two years with more tread on those tires also younger than we than we thought he's next year will be age thirty four season in which the Mets are on hook for thirty million dollars. I mean, I don't I think you have to operate under the idea that you're never getting any contributions from cesspit again, for the if you're the Mets. I mean, this is not only did he fracture have multiple fractures in his ankle. Now. He was coming off. I believe surgery in both heels, right? Yes. Exactly. So. Right. And that was an it's not like the period that led up to the surgery. And both heels was just a, like a bastion of health either. Like there were other things that gone on with him some of which were related he'll and fairness. But, like I just if you get anything, I think it has to be viewed as a bonus. The contract is a disaster. That's part of what's frustrating to me about the Mickey Callaway conversation is that like I know he's done. I don't watch every Mets game but I know he is not done himself and great service in terms of tactical decisions, while he's been a manager. But like you look up and down this roster and it's hard to blame. It's hard to blame him and not the front office for the situation that they're in and both sins of both the, the previous front office and most definitely Brodie van wagon and this past off season which was confusing at best, and incoherent at worse and, and looks really bad right now, those issues that they may this offseason, look really bad. It wasn't that wasn't the Mickey Callaway edition, also an effort to get away from and move away from TC old school sort of approach. Right. And bring somebody in who could understand the analytics who could assess his team, unbiased Louis and and be. A conduit of sorts from the B dubs up top two of the players in the middle. And that's, that's what Mickey Callaway has supposed to have represented so to a point. He's done his job in terms of being the conduit between the front office and the players. But if you're Mickey Callaway, what could you feasibly do to get these guys to play better? Nothing nothing. That's, that's why see here's thing like normally mean there's a shift in baseball sort of philosophy. Now that I'm noticing where we're no longer making managers scapegoats. They get has to fall in the players like if you're the Mets, I mean, take this Mets team plop them down in the nineties, Maki Calloway's fired, like he that you have a scapegoat situation right here present in two thousand nineteen the Mets are saying, all right? Well, there needs to be more player accountability. We're not just gonna fire the manager. He's not gonna fall on the sword for you guys. This is on you. We've assembled a team. That is worthy of at least being in the conversation for first place in this division. We know that you're talented enough because the core already went to fuck fucking World Series and we've supplemented, those pieces with other veterans that are capable they've been there. And they've done this before. So if we hired Mickey Callaway, there were obviously, in, there was an interview process that we went through to, to where this guy buys into what we're trying to do. Here is an organization. This guy has proven that he can at least lead a group, and he buys into these analytical methods that were trying to implement for this for this organization moving forward. So he's the guy that we want your the players that we put in this position. You're just fucking playing well. So I think now that sends a message of we're not firing him. Not is fucking fall. It's your fault. You're the players. You're the ones that are playing the games and some point in time. I think the scientist should also be held accountable for the recipes and the shit that they're concocting, meaning the analytics individuals. The people in the front office, who are selling certain. Players this player that player because they do this. Well, and they would be a good platoon fit here. Well, when that shit doesn't pan out or those players, don't pan out. How about we start holding the individuals who identified these players? How about we'll democrat -able as well. I don't think there's any evidence that the Mets current problem is a is a result of an over reliance on analytics like to just I'm speaking. So that comment was not necessarily geared towards the Mets specifically, but more across the baseball landscape in general, as Jared touched on so managers not being the scapegoats out one was in our game. So two things that I think are important touch on a like so this is one of the problems with a lame duck manager, right? Is that he was hired by sandy Alderson and that regime? And now he's working under Brody men wagon. And if you believe Jeff passan's article, which there's no reason not to van wagon was not given the ability. To move on from Mickey cow, whether he wanted to or not. He was not given the ability to move on, because that would require the Mets to pay a manager that they fired and pay manager, that they would need to hire. Right. So Micky entered in a lame ducks situation, under a GM that he that did not hire him which we've seen across all sports. Landscapes doesn't always work out. Well, Secondly to Jared point about how. You know they're not blaming Calloway, and they're saying that the players we've acquired are good enough to be good at good team. And you guys need to perform accordingly. I think part of the reason why van wagon is taking that approach is because if he does blame Calloway, then he's tacitly admitting that the players many of whom he acquired this offseason at substantial cost. The organization in terms of prospects are not working out right, like canno-. I mean you can talk about the hustling stuff the bottom line is nobody would give shit if he was performing. He's been really bad this year. Wilson Ramos, not working out. Juries familiar out of the bullpen not working out. Jed. Lowrie may still be a good player. But when you sign an injury prone guy, who's like thirty six years old. And then he doesn't play because of injury. You have only yourself to blame like that's you problem. And the last thing I want to say this Joshi and had a great tweet about Mickey Callaway as manager again, you can. Talk about the in game tactical stuff. Here's the things that have happened under Mickey Callaway as manager, best season of grams life, left Conforto alone to become a star, which was a constant complaint of Mets fans and people in the Terry Collins era, turn Cassahun and Lugo into cheap pen options brought along Alonzo Nimmo rose REO Davis McNeil and Smith. That's what's happened under Mickey Callaway, and essentially nothing positive has happened under road, even wagon as GM. So it's just interesting to me to see, like to see what happens when you give baseball guy, the ability to let feel take over for just a minute and more. These kids, the numbers and shit. He just kind of let the feel too. Yeah. And maybe Calloway, isn't the best option rate in game tactical decision maker. Maybe that's what we're learning. But to say that he has been the main problem for the Mets. And, and his job should be should come according, -ly, seems crazy to me, maybe he's better suited for some sort of player develop. Who knows? Yeah. We didn't throw Todd Frazier in the list of disappointments, either, but feel like he belongs. Wow. Just what he's I mean. Like he's that's been a disappointment. That's all. Ever have a lead, though. They got closer together. Do BV dubs did that. So we got that I feel bad feel bad. Like I feel like I, I was definitely one of those guys that was optimistic about the Mets coming into this year, and they just the Mets are going Mets. It really has become one of these unexplainable franchises like the, the more. The more you pay attention. The more you're just like. Great great tweet by Ken Rosenthal for his column Mets an organization that is toxic from the top down lead. A new manager, okay? What about the first part of your sentence? Yeah. Love some toxic baseball talk. There's no talk city in the club houses of this man. Now Ron Gardenhire, Artie manza legend of this game baseball lifer. Baseball lifer. I love getting to talk to the dudes that, you know, they've been through every single level every single hat that you can wear in this game Gardy is that guy. And we got the chance to sit down and talk to him and put our feet up and have a casual conversation, here it is with Ron Gardenhire the manager of the Detroit Tigers. Or here with the manager of the Detroit Tigers yet by wrong Gardenhire a legend in the game actually became more of a legend when he came on the RV because he just said, he's an RV guy. So, yeah. Tell us about what, what's the best RV adventure that you've ever gone on? Oh, you don't I've, I will tell you this one. I've coming back from visiting my family in California for Oklahoma. And it was like flagstaff, Arizona mountains the snow. I decided to stay at a hotel. I've got a forty footer I turn into the hotel, which is a little rise. I buried my bumper and put my wills in the air. And that's where I had to leave my RV's had to get it to get a tow truck to come. Pick it up right, my mom, she was pretty old at the time my brother-in-law he was having cocktail. So he couldn't help me seatbelts. Oh, yeah. People. No. I mean, the front end went up the rear in hits the next thing, you know, my wheels are going. No. This is not good. I'm blocking when a one lane right of the of the road. So it was beautiful. Is that how is that mostly how you like to spend your time like in the off season like what's an off season? Look like for you. Well, now I got it park, you know, the have is parked at my daughter's house on the farm in Oklahoma. So I, I travel I go see the grandbabies. I've got a house in Minnesota daughter lives in that up there in Minnesota. So we go and spend time there. And then we try to stay in Fort Myers, our house Fort Myers a lot. So is this like, John Madden thing? You're not a big airplane guide, much rather keep the feet on the ground type. I'm not. So I, I don't mind flying. We fly all the time, but I love getting in the RV and traveling. I love staying at WalMart parking lots. That's exactly WalMart. You'd wake you go to sleep. It's all good. You wake up in the morning, you got sixties on each side of you. That's just the way it is looking for cover. Absolutely. We were doing live ABC in the middle of in the middle of WalMart. So we're kind of that's kind of been our things. We're driving around with the wiffle ball bats. We're trying to just find random fans Guardia punched him out on the bread. I'll yeah. Straight on looking in fairness, though if you were to use a shopping cart as a strike zone. How'd you position it shopping cart as strikes? You wouldn't set it vertically. No, he would go horizontal, absolutely. Make it white. So hughes. Let me just if you do it sideways. It's it's a long. It's a rectangle zone Cup or the side that you have pushed the carriage the side with the handles. That's that's a perfect strikes. You're only so toll physically I was working with what I was giving. I think that that's on. Think about what do you remember the old school empires, when they stood behind a catcher they'd go. That was just trying to get comfortable. Yeah. That was their strike zone. Yeah. Because it was good away. Yeah. Reloaded. Yeah. Well, Dallas, you had the stat about the objections seventy nine I believe, Seventy-three with Minnesota, big fan going. I got a question as as the game is starting to evolve right underneath our feet, right underneath our noses something that has happened is they've kind of cash straighted the manager umpire argument. I value it. I know where the value lies within can you explain how important it is for you to be able to? I mean, let's be real got angel back there box and shit. We got Sebok their boxer shit. You've got opinions and you'd like to share them at times. Help portent is it for you to be able to have those conversations you as a manager, sometimes when you're kind of struggling as a team, you want to get thrown out, have actually told on pars. Listen I can't watch these guys planning. I don't like you on Piran, right? But you're gonna throw me because I am watching this anymore. I've had told me I gotta stay. You've got us. No. So who is who's your favorite empire? Who do you have the best report with? But if you go out there and you're hot who what's the guy? That's like all right. Like that's that's Gardy. I know that this is a civil thing here. There's I you know, the reality is I'm good friends with a lot of these guys. Get the Nome. They know it's all part of the game. The business. My job is to keep my players in the game. So I go out and argue just to get them on me which I do a really nice job. And they they stay in the game play. So I you know, there's so many guys that I'm good friends with and you go out and argue with them and they're looking at you sideways. And they just turn their head side. We are not even answering. Yeah. I'm trying to get them to like answer me like just look at it be smiling. Yeah. That's not a fun argument. How have you, evolved, as a manager because you've been around the game for a long time, and I feel like the managerial position has evolved in, in recent years specifically, but you still have, you know, a stronghold on your clubhouse, and you're a guy that commands respect however you, some on, like, how have you evolve as a manager over the years? Well, I, I was underneath Tom Kelly for a long time coach. He was great manager handled it his way tough. And, you know, really smart guy. Tough. Love even for coaches. Yeah. And I, and I kind of when I first started, managing I kind of took that in there and like men cages, and torii hunter's those guys, it was just it's just harder for me to I start yelling at them. But then I look at them, and they're making funny faces and laughing. So I, I just want them to respect the game. When I come into clubhouse, all's on asking for as you come in. You have a job to do research. Specked a game. But remember this it's baseball. Yeah, it is not rocket science. Yeah, it can be an it's getting to be rocket science. And I'm learning the new wave but it's still baseball. Yeah, we're going to have fun. And so I tried to create and I still try to create an atmosphere when they get there. They're having a ball. I'm gonna put you on the spot here. Oh, Spelman cave. It no chance. Absolutely. I don't know how I wrote it down. Like eighteen thousand type. Okay. It's like M. I. N. T A K. I e. Yeah. And then w ic- w. Yeah. Yeah, I put it in a lot, obviously you're in a good spot here. You've got the got the Tigers. You've got a great mix of veteran guys with some young up and comers as well in the lineup on the mound me being a pitcher. My focus always tends to drift, right towards the men on the mound house. This starting rotation shaping up. You've got guys like Fulmer you've brought in guys like Tyson Ross. How is this rotation shaping up? What are you looking for out of some of these young guys got Daniel Norris? Boyd guys really poised to take take the next step, and that's it. I mean it's competition when you're going and have a club where there's no competition at that rotation. Then you're probably in trouble. You know how much pitching you need. Fortunately for us. We have seven or eight starters in camp at all have an opportunity here to see what they can do, and we're going to have to make some tough decisions. We're going to send a couple of guys down that probably should be on this stuff. We brought some veterans into kind of hold before. So these guys can better prepare them. Selves and get a little more endings in. But but, you know, with Tyson, Ross and guys like that more, but, you know, alternately we've got some really young stud pitchers coming up, and some of them are here now which makes it real exciting for a future now as far as controlling innings controlling their, their, their exposure, if you will and again production and resources, plays a role into this, the opener when you when you were broached with the subject, if that's been something that you've talked about if that's been something that's been thrown your direction. What was your initial reaction to it? You take it in stride because of everything that's gone on the game. So you start looking at it. Can we do that, like a team like Tampa who's kind of, you know, made an art form? You wonder if it's all about, they just don't really feel. They have enough starting pitching to last for a year, so they put guys to eat two or three innings up and then they bring the guys in what it does for the opposing manager is you gotta figure. Out who in house coming in neck. Not only that, but I mean, you've got to say say say you gotta sell Paul opener up. Right. And now maybe you've got two guys at the top of the lineup swinging from the left side that you might not be as as as prone to, to throw in there. So it does leave some some room for strategy for you is all it is. And it's it's tough to write a lineup out in the Mets. Did it? I mean, the twins did it in they came into to Detroit, and I'm telling you every game I think they started the same left-hander and I still couldn't figure out how many damn innings. Speaking of the left-hander, I wanna take it back to the twins days for a second, because I'm a big Johan, Santana guy, you'll on friendly podcast, how 'cause I was infuriated what was your reaction when Santana fell off the ballot after one year fill up the what the hall of fame ballot Johan, you know, it's probably longevity. And what they're talking about these guys with all these enormous numbers. But his pin ears in is just like Jack Morris, Jack Morris, Burt bly Levin in their time in the game. They were the most dominant pitcher in a game. And you on was that guy. Yeah. We're a long period of time there. I mean five six seven years. But I don't know if that's enough for them. But you know this guy was not only just great pitchers. Great athlete. Right. I mean, one of the best fitting pitchers the whole package, but I was lucky enough to manage the guy I I I've said this guy, right here, hall of fame stuff now, whether they use career lasted long enough, I guess, that's the big deal. Great stories. Great stories, one ninety drags out like seventeen eighteen guys. Yeah. Right. And record and it's like pitch limits. Right. At one hundred and we never really pushed it, and it's in the Metrodome in crowd's going crazy. And he strikes out the last two guys of the eighth inning. And I'm looking at Rick Anderson, we got Joe Nathan down to the bullpen and I'm going, we can't take him out. And he's got like a hundred pitches. But before he got to the dugout he takes his hat off and tips at two took himself out. Ten years on my. Easy for you. So you had a front row seat to a lot of greatness there in Minnesota. A lot of great times we have lost or August. I'll say this the man who spends his entirety in one Uni dinosaur guys. A unicorn we, we don't have those around anymore visual bag, will that's kind of custard last stand. If you will to be able to watch Joe Mauer develop any Volve day in day out, over the course of his career, and how he was welcomed by the fan base by his hometown crowd. What was it like to have a front row seat to just kind of watch Joe become Minnesota, Joe? Yeah. You're talking about one of the nicest guys. I don't know if you know him personally, but truly gentlemen, one of the nicest guys you've ever met and probably the best swing I've ever seen in a game consistently on a day-to-day basis. It was just perfect. I was throwing balls at his hands Gordy trying to get in there. And he's playing it back up the middle of the that was going to hit you. He'll swing. And you're getting barreled. What's going on? Oh, he could let the ball travel, and he could honestly. You know, you hitters you got hitters all the time, saying that bowl was at least three inches outside of Joe Mauer said it, I believe, I can promise you could take and try to measure might be three and a quarter inch of that side. Yeah. That's how good is. I, I mean we've mentioned Joe Nathan we've mentioned Santana. Obviously Joe Mauer Justin Moore. No another guy there with an MVP to his name. What was the in your opinion, regardless of how the season ended or what the postseason result was, what was the best twins team that you were ever at the helm of I or I one oh oh two we got an American League championships. That was a great baseball team. Yeah. We had a lot going on force. Good pitching staff the bullpen package. We just ran into social and those guys that last game scored nine runs on one in the United States pitchers eighteen times. So it was one of those type of things but I think, oh, six yeah. In six. I really thought we, we ran off. I don't know how many games it was. We ended up catching the Tigers and passing them. And then we got we got swept by Oakland. Yeah. Three big pitchers. The three studs. Yeah. And that was, I thought that was our best chance that year the way we were plan how hot we were and it just clicked but we got swept by Oakland. Was that the more no beer? Yeah. Yeah. Our Mata hit twenty something home runs that year. Twenty seven or something like we told him you need to stretch out. Yeah. So he did. He's, you know that's not him. He's good up there in to Balba. He stretched out that your Sousa great year. Unfortunately, we got wiped away by this three stud pitchers. But what was what was your Fundus memory of the ninety one World Series? Well, the sides, the win. I mean I'm coaching third base. Yeah. And it's kind of like the movie jaws. Dan, gladden standing there on third base with me, and, and I'm trying to talk to him. And it was so loud, you could hardly here. And he's screaming. You're gonna tell me to go right? I'm like, what? Was like jaws. You remember when he says, I can't spit I couldn't spit. Oh my God. The place was rocking out of thing ever been in my life and just standing there with, Danny. Glad I screwed up. Lark, hits the ball in the outfield gladdens, jogging home jumping up and down. Yeah. And instead of doing what I should have done ran down the line with him to home plate and been in every picture, I ran back over towards the Commissioner who was sitting right there. And I'm yelling at him. We got it. Ju. Move. Well, obviously, you're here in Detroit. Now, we've got a guy in my opinion, one of the best right handed hitters to ever step into the batter's box. Mcgill Cabrera, right. Health has been an issue as things get as things move down the track. That happens to us, we understand that. How do you make sure that Maggie is able to answer the bell? How do you keep him in the best possible position to stay healthy and compete knowing what kind of a competitor he is? Right. And you know, you're going to have to back him off. Sometimes you're gonna have to give days off and we're going to try to see how many days he plays first base. And I think you just go day to day, you know, my goal is to keep him healthy this year. I'm going to do the best we possibly can as a manager that I can do and put him in situations day games after night games. Those things were in the sad thing is. It's just like the Kirby Puckett's in the mowers, the fans when you're at home, they wanna see them. Sure. So you it's hard to give them off days at home on the road. Probably a better time. But there's going to be days off at home. To just to make sure we get through year with him because we need him so much. And, and the last thing, the last thing we like to ask our guests before we let them go. And again guarding thanks for spending the time sledge appreciate you. We're gonna take you back, put you in a hot tub time machine and we're going back into baseball history. Any moment in baseball history. You're there you get to take it in, in person. What is it baseball memory any? No. We're going back in history. So any moment in history. In baseball, you can be there to watch it opening day when Tom Seaver came back to New York Mets, and I don't even know what your was early eighties was going to say. Yeah, because I was there on the bench. That was one of the best moments ever seen when he warmed up and came walking out of that bullpen those Shaef ns were going. It was just like right now. Joel's mumps, what people ask me your best moment? The game right. As a player I went watching. Tom seat. No. Watching him, walk in like that was an all, and it was like the most fascinating moment ever seen how the passion those fans advertise Seaver, and I got to be a part of it, even though I wasn't starting nose on the bench. I got to watch him do that. And it was like John Wayne as baseball. And it was baseball that good stuff. Gardy love it pre sheet your time. Cool, Ron Gardenhire skipper. The Detroit Tigers. I shadow to Ron Gardenhire the manager of the Detroit Tigers for coming on starting nine as we said earlier, we got more Detroit Tigers content or that came from a so if you're Tigers fan be on the lookout for that as well. Also, you just knew he was an RV guy. You knew video RV. Yeah. You knew. I mean you take one look at guarding. You're like I'm not even gonna ask you, if you're an RV guy, I'm just going to ask you how many miles you got on that thing? Regular with bell. Price. It literally sounds like a movie out there. It's insane buying. Tickets can be complicated and confusing. But there's a simpler way to buy with seek Seekie is these smartest easiest way to get tickets to every type of live event. Whether you're catching your favorite musician onto our shopping for the perfect gift or searching for last minute deal to see your favorite team. 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Yankee raise game on and anybody find you nobody family. But I did tell. The people I was with, I told them about the idea, and they all laughed about it. So we at least got some laughs about the idea. Even if there's no video coming out about me kind of wandering outside and inside of Yankee Stadium looking for people to sign for. Couple of observations. I did you seek, which is why I'm bringing it up. Couple of survey. Sion's a, the iron throne was there from game of thrones and the line to sit in the iron throne and take a picture was one of the more unbelievable things I've ever seen in my life. Newsflash thrown got melted. So that wasn't the real threat to well spoiler alert. And Secondly, there was a rain delay, and it lasted about twenty five thirty minutes if I had to guess, when we were debating, whether we were going to wait through it or not. And I'm so glad that we did, because then they walked off and it was great. I don't really care about either of those teams. But seeing a rally in the eight in the ninth inning. And then seeing a walk off hit at home is pretty cool. It's one of the more exciting things than sports. Yeah. It was great. It was great, especially because some raised guy who constantly tweeted me over the last five or ten years. Tweeted at me. That's a nice ound tweeted at me. What's it like to watch a real team in person about five seconds before they got walked off? So that was, yes. You'll love it. You'll love to see it. You'll love it. That's, that's fantastic. I mean, this is this is literally fucking crazy that they're just. Hey, we're we're a media company. We'd love to have you guys just come in and just drill a bunch of fucking holes all day in the middle of the day. There is about a I don't know. Maybe call it a twelve hour window where nobody's here. Can you guys just come like, right? When everyone's recording and doing live programming. That'd be perking radio hits here, right about five eight going to need you hear about four forty five. If that's possible. How's the air compressors, go win? Get the nail guns up and running as well. If we could get Hal on the hammer just hang out right in front of the elevator. That'd be great. I'm most excited for the tweets that are like, hey, Jay can't you can't? You do something with the audio. It's like no. Those fucking saws in the background. Dude. That's drills. Sorry. It's, it's an actual miter saw. Aw. Going. Cutting tile there, there are sources fed up around. There is no button on the editing program for saws and drills. I mean, it's not even for a lack of effort, either I literally went to a completely different floor. Not just change. Rooms, I went to a different floor in this building. And it's just no. All right. You guys want to run through some storylines here. Love to some quick story lines on nominal contenders. Some good some bad. You guys tell me, whether you're worried or not, but just drop survey Sion's art cardinals rotation. I think we all I'll just speak for myself. I expected this rotation to be very good. It is not been very good twenty-seventh in wins above replacement nineteenth in Jahra and twenty six in strikeout-to-walk percentage. So nothing really reflects well on them and it's not one or two guys. If you look at their five most commonly used starters, flared, he Mike lists walkaway, no and Hudson. Like every single one of them has an ERA in the fours and fifth of at least four two of which are five plus. Who's got the who's got the fifth that's five plus Hudson and Waqa God. Yeah, I saw wocka, when we were out in Chicago pitching at Wrigley, and I mean, I kind of just think back to twenty thirteen all the hype that was surrounding him when he first came up, and it is been I'd been disappointed as someone that was genuinely excited to see this do. I mean he was nails in twenty thirteen. But the cardinal's rotation. I know if you're casual baseball fan listening to, to starting nine v is not perfect, but is much more accurate than not most of the time. In terms of forecasting, future ERA or what, what a pitcher performance. You know if there's some there's some fishy business going on. This would indicate obviously that the cardinal, they are who you think they are on the surface. I don't even is this too small of a sample for you to say this is kind of just what it's going to be because I don't think that this is what it's going to be. They are better than this. I think like I don't know if it's too small of a sample. I think it's fair to say that the there haven't been a ton of bright spots. There hasn't been a ton of sparkling performance no throughout the rotation. But if you if you look so like me. For instance, his last four starts twenty one innings total. Twenty two. Knox. Ten earned runs only two walks eighteen punch outs. Now that ERA four to, to remember. I always talk about a season's worth of quality starts six innings three runs. And you would you would take that every day, but those numbers are not sexual. They are not attractive that results in four point five ERA. I talked about that a lot. Because in his last six starts thirty three and two thirds innings thirty seven Knox. Fourteen earned runs twenty one runs total fourteen earned runs. Couple problems twelve walks Twenty-three punch outs, but pitching to three seven four Yara. So there have been struggles, the body of work isn't necessarily indicative of kind of what you're getting out as well. They're gonna be better. They could perform better. This isn't going to be. Who they are? I don't think for the for the remainder of the season couple of these guys, though. I think this is who we could. We are dealing with a walk a and in a Wainwright. I just look, I'm a huge fan of Ueno love me, Charlie. I just don't know how much is left there. Let's just the bottom line. There just is what it is. He doesn't have the stuff to overpower guys that repertoires taken as taking a step back in terms of swing and miss. It's just it is what it is or it is what it isn't at this point in time. So. As far as as far as the starting rotation is concerned. I think they can be better. But you're right, j it's not what you expected. But this is a young group. This is young group as well. So you didn't necessarily think there I didn't necessarily they're gonna take the world by storm and just start. Shitting all over people. They were going to be lumps to take care. And I think that's kind of what's going on. Yeah. And in fairness Carlos Martinez was probably expected to be it contributor here at one of foremost contributors. He has not pitched this year. So I think they're expecting him back pretty soon. But nevertheless, has not been a contributor the rotation that I see somewhere that they were looking to bring him out of the bullpen when he came back. Yeah. I mean, I've, I've been I been unclear on what his role. I mean he finished. What didn't he finished last year in the bullpen? So, yes, I mean to me, that's always been kind of a possibility in terms of bringing him back Alex rays and other guy that I think they were expecting to get more serious contributions out of this year. He is not at least I was expecting them to he's not been a contributor for me like, I'm with Dallas in the sense that maybe with Jerry too, in the sense that I think, walkaway, no. And for at least right now, Dakota Hudson just kind of like are what they are. And in fact, I think Ueno's days is a viable starting pitcher or probably pretty close to over. But to me, it's all about Flaherty and Michael because Jack Flaherty three three four Yara with one hundred eighty two strikeouts. In one hundred and fifty one innings last year. Like he was in my mind on the foremost list of guys who were like full on breakout candidates. Like he's going to be in your face. You're gonna know this name, sort of, like you know how we now view. Chris paddock and guys and Luis Castillo and guys like that who really have broken out this year. I thought Flaherty was going to be that kind of pitcher. He hasn't been at all. And Michael is even if you wanna squint he's been better over his last four or five Mike lists, though, to me is like the greater immediate concern because. Like his offseason target. That was that was who yet, anchored, right? Yeah. You invested in him long-term, and his ERA is to full runs higher. That was last year. I don't know if anybody expected him to repeat two eight three but it's four eight eight right now with a fifth to match and the big difference is home runs allowed like his home run rate has essentially doubled from last year. What was his fifth last year three to eight so it was excellent. That's in lie. Let's just let's just over something here. Let's just all remember something. Yes. He came back from Japan, right? Or Japan Korea. As a he, he, he was a failed starter. Here he was he was a, a failed arm if you will, and I don't like to use that, but that's how we described your failed starter. Takes it over to Japan. All right. It's a lesser league does well dominates frankly, dominates does so in such a fashion that he does put himself in a position to be invested in to this degree comes back eighteen great year. But now is there anything to maybe that's just not sustainable for him like he they captured lightning in a bottle? They got it for that year. And now maybe that's just not what's going to happen from here on out. It's possible they invested otherwise not to say that they're infallible. But that would be, I think problematic for them. If if Michael is a four five pitcher moving forward. Braves. Another contender there. This one is has been hammered in the media, and his very well known. Their bullpen is an issue. They've been linked to Craig kimbrel, casually since the very beginning of the offseason, it seems like by wins above replacement per fan, graphs, the only bullpens worse so far this year have been the Marlins Orioles. Who is we alluded to moments ago? Have not are not really trying to win baseball games. And by innings pitched, therefore, most used pitchers have been Luke Jackson. Josh Tomlin west Parsons, AJ Minter was demoted. Anthony swore Zach was just acquired and Sean nukem just got the save. So we're kind of all over the place with this. Braves bullpen like. Is is wars hack enough of a enough of a solution to their problems? Or is this hopefully the beginning of something more, they have to show a willingness to one of invest in the bullpen because the whole storyline in the offseason was, we're going to try and spend some money maybe in the outfield? It's like okay that's cool. But you need to do something with that bullpen. That's pretty important. I don't know if you've noticed some of the most recent World Series champions, but they've all had really good bullpens and then you try a division winner from year ago out there. And for what I mean for what last year was for Atlanta. They didn't really kick it into second gear until the second half. So maybe, maybe there's some sort of internal solution that they can they can come up with, you know, before or around the second half of the season. Craig kimbrel is, is just money especially I mean, once you wait after the draft. He's just money to you. Does does one reliever fixing entire bullpen? No. But it's a start. It's if you don't have that internal piece that you can just say, hey, we're gonna move. I mean like nukem is not a long-term solution in the fucking bullpen that guys that guy's going to be an innings horse for you. Is a band-aid for right now? So, yeah, I would say there are going to be conversations around the trade deadline, where Atlanta's looking to upgrade 'cause that, that division to me. There are a lot of horses in the NFL east that are capable of winning that division no-one to this point has been a, you know, a again, that's going to separate themselves from the pack. I think that if there is one team, obviously, the Phillies are incredibly talented too. But if there's one team that can get hot and kind of, you know, put some distance between the pack I still love the Braves still love the Braves as a team if guys are performing to the back of their baseball cards, especially if you add a guy like Craig kimbrel to that bullpen. Yeah. I would I would put my out out still put my money on the Braves too to win that division. So but I mean again there are other teams that are either the rich get richer the Astros, I feel I could end up with Craig kimbrel, and then the brewers. That's another team that is just like, hey, you guys have a knee and they should they should get fucking Tikal and kimbrel. If you're if you're if you're the brewers. Yeah, I guess we'll see what happens, but yeah, the, the Atlanta Braves are desperate for any type of help in their bullpen, and they're gonna have to get creative, if it's not kimbrel will this is what's wars that does for them. Is this now you ask, can one guy impact a bull pin to a degree that alleviates stress and pressures and kind of allows allows folks to settle into their roles? The answer is yes. The answer is typically, yes. When you're talking about a back end bullpen guy, probably a stopper, because that allows things to kind of shake out behind him because you can account for in your mind. The most important three outs of this baseball game, which are outs twenty five twenty six and twenty seven we're gonna we're gonna need those three above all. So what's was that does? He now ads link to this bullpen the guys that you mentioned Jay, the Jackson's the winklers, the webs. These guys are these guys are the row players. These guys are part of that bridge, but the two Sants of the world, the Tomlin's of the world who are going to give you link what you do. Now is you take away, how much you're asking of them, which those guys could be in the game around the fifth inning trying to keep the ball game where it's at maybe you're down by three or whatever. But now instead of having to rely on those guys to give you three or three and a third or whatever now you've got a guy who can eat up something in the middle there or when the game is in your favor. You've got a guy that you can throw right in there and extend that bridge. You're not going to be asking any more of a guy that you wouldn't want to ask any more of meeting. If I've got a guy that's three out capable. I don't wanna see if I can get five from him today. Swore Zach represents my ability to not have to ask to go. Get me that seventh out to sunken. Just give me those sips. He can give me those two innings and can handle this guy and keep the train moving. So that's the kind of impact that I was at can have, and if he's able to pitch well, and he's other guys can sort of feed off the pressure being alleviated, then the Braves are in a little bit better position without having to go so far outside of the organization, or really sell off any pieces to get a viable pin option. Comprehensive answers Luke Jackson also has been pretty damn good as a side note thirty strikeouts. Eight walks in twenty three and a third innings. He has been getting a lot of the save opportunities leading up to the stores acquisition. We'll see if that stays changes Red Sox relief pitching, I think this is a more interesting question. So, I think it would have been fair to say that it was on the forefront of your mind as far as concerns go entering the year. Right. Once they decided not to retain Kimball for me. It was more of a curiosity than a concern. And so here here's here's where a mat on the Red Sox bullpen. And here's where I think a lot of other teams should be, and we can kind of piggyback off the Craig kimbrel discussion here. So last year in the two years prior to that Craig kimbrel. You know you heard, you know through the grapevine this guy cares about the safe statistic. And why did he care about that because he wanted to get paid? He wanted one hundred million dollars as a free agent. And that's why he's still a free agent is because he wants to get paid shirt. There's no problem with that. I have no problem with the guy wanted to get what he thinks his fair value great. But he cared about pitching in the ninth inning. And he cared about getting a safe his numbers in twenty sixteen. When he pitched in non save situations were business in a safe situa-. Nation. He was fucking lights out. So I kind of look at it this way, right? You remove Craig kimbrel. The closer from this group of Red Sox relievers and instead of naming a closer in spring training. Alex Cora does not name a closer at all out of camp, which you can interpret as well. I mean, we're not gonna name a closer based off of spring training performance. Let's see who emerges from this group during the regular season. Still there is no closer named, However, I love what he's doing in terms of the quote unquote bullpen ace, and this was sort of a Bill James terms slash philosophy where you kind of instead of having the ninth inning. Three run leader less. Here comes the closer. You get three outs. You get a save great that worked for a long period of time. I don't like that in a manager. I'm sure as a as a closer look and get paid you prob. I love that as a manager trying to win baseball games. That's not that's not feasible for me. So when you have a bullpen where you get a guy like Brandon workman who gave up two hits all season before his his shit parents against the Rockies. You got a guy like Marcus Walden who can give you multiple innings. He's got like a one to seventy IRA whatever that is. You got a guy like Matt Barnes, who is literally struck out half the batter's that he's faced this season. Now, you have this sort of three headed monster where you can use these guys wherever you want in Ryan brazier to he's, he's out of tough month of may. But another guy that's capable of getting big outs. So instead of having the closer, you now have the bullpen ace where where the biggest outs of this game if it's in the seventh here comes map Barnes, this guy has struck out literally half the batteries that he's faced this year. Here comes Matt Barnes in the seventh bases-loaded, nobody out or here again. The astros. Now it's got three four five coming up in the eighth inning. Here comes Matt Barnes because we can throw Brandon workman out there to get six seven eight two to close out. Those aren't the biggest outs of the game. So it in in not having the Craig kimbrel of the world where it's yet you, you're a better team with Craig Kimball on your bullpen no doubt about it. But when you remove the guy who really cares about the safe statistic really cares about strictly pitching in the ninth inning. And you have a group of three four relievers that you can dispose. However, you see fit in terms of these are the biggest of the game, they might be in the sixth seventh of the eighth, but we're gonna we're gonna deploy our guy are strikeout guy in the seventh because that's where that's where the game could be won or lost changes the dynamic entirely so yeah, there's going to be people. They're going to say, hey, you don't have a closer and that's supposed to be some sort of insult some sort of poke. Oh, you don't have a closer. Okay. That's fine. But we don't the Red Sox don't have. A closer but they do have a bullpen that is more than capable of protecting leads and in winning ball games for you. From the Red Sox fucking expert himself is, is that a place of comfort because one thing, I one thing, I think is? These individuals have to get used to pitching in the ninth inning. And the ninth inning does represent something which is, again, you wanna take Craig kimbrel, and who he is, as an athlete as a like kind of mindset that takes. There's a reason he wants that money. It's because he's performed to the degree. He has in an environment, where other individuals have just have just crumbled frankly have just not been able to perform, and it's because that ninth inning is, it's, it's, it's you, I promise you, you could walk in there with the mama tour in your mouth, and it could read ninety eight point six degrees in the eighth inning. And it could read ninety eight point six degrees in the ninth inning that fire is a hell of a lot hotter in the ninth inning. And that Mamata might be telling you one thing, but, but the feel is completely fucking different, and that's why I say those nine. Those three outs. Twenty five twenty six twenty seven means so much. Because there's, there's nothing nothing that can be said against a levered situation being the most important situation of a game in the seventh inning. Eight right. That is absolutely true. That happens all the time, the ninth inning represents finality though and or he's been getting everybody's feet. Wet. Right. So you might see Barnes in the high leverage situation in the seventh, but you're you might get workman in the ninth in a save situation. You might get brazier. You might get Walden. I mean he's been he's in definitely getting everyone's like brea workman's been in the fucking league since twenty thirteen just got his first safe like two days ago, I think what will happen too because AC baseball guy. He understands that you can't just you because if this situation if the rotating or the carousel of closers, and I say that with all due respect because it is. A rotation frankly guys. That could be stoppers, if this rotation of them could continues to work and play out. But you're you're scuffling in that night dinning. I wonder of Alex Cora pinpoints guy that says, you know what workman? I appreciate the work in the seventh inning. But the swing and miss is just too valuable for us right now we've gotta have that finishing the ballgame because we feel like the other guys that you've mentioned jeered can get us through the seventh and eighth those muddy waters. We need lockdown clarity in the ninth and workman. You might represent that. I just I wonder if they ever get to that point. Dallas will start with you on this one as a former starting pitcher in major league baseball the reds rotation. We've sort of touched on this previously, I think some of these numbers are kind of eye-popping, though. Five point six wins above replacement that second only to the national's three point four five ERA, that's forth to the raise dodgers and cubs, fifth, second to the raise twenty six percent strikeout rate fifth. So there's a lot to support what's going on here, Dallas. Like, what are your impressions of the reds rotation to this point? Well, remember we talked, what was it like two weeks ago? Maybe we've your so I don't know. But we talked about Casteel. We talked about Sonny gray, and we talked about, you know, sunny great getting back to using the fastball. We talked about the ground ball rates for both of these individuals being something that was indicative of why they were having the success. They're having I don't I mean buck j what, what do you want me to say because those numbers that you're talking about between for those, those are peripheral numbers. Those are the numbers that you would look at two two. To try to get a feel as to why they're having the success. They are. I, I really don't have. I mean 'cause I look at Sony gray. And I think about anomaly like I'm just like how out is this guy not figured it out? How is he not been able to be as dominant as I once saw? And it's almost like it's now like just kind of in the face of all questioning. How are you going to be good? Why are you good and sunny grades kind of like I don't really know. But I'm just I'm going to do it right now. But are the numbers. I mean, aside from Custodio, like, are you talking about just as an entire stat, I think, to me, the thing, that's most notable is that like outside of Custodio? It's actually been just kind of like yeoman work level, like he he's driving a lot of this. But like it's been like Roark disc Lafont grim male, Molly are basically, all striking out at least a batter per inning. Which to me is at least marginally surprising from your. Four two three four and five. Guys to all be missing bats at that level. Let me let me ask you this. Let me flip this question. If you guys had to bet would you say that, you would Luiz, Custodio finishes, one of the five most productive pitchers in the NFL by the end of this season for you? Yes. Yes, I was even say top three okay Willie. Will he make the NL Cy Young nominee ballot? Nominee ballot top three we already know those are the top three but yes. Db. No believer. Shun the non-believer. No, I don't. I don't him. I don't see it may twenty-first Dallas the. Nonbelievers shuns castio from the NL Cy Young file vote. Let me guess Joe musk grove be there. Instead, Trevor Williams or so about. About. All right. I mean, I don't think the reds wrote throw tation legitimately contender status either. But I do think it's impressive. The work they've gotten out of it. Overall? Yeah. Actually. That question that we were doing down in spring training. Asking pitchers if they if they could ditch one pitch from their repertoire and inherit someone else's pitch of the same variety Barnes. That question and he chose Lewis Casio's. Change up. Did. Now everyone keeps saying Jordan Hicks 's fastball. I feel like we have to ban that you can't just you can't that's too easy. But I mean do. That's a lot of foresight. The come on. Everybody wants to fuck him seven or whatever the hell it, but that's just such an easy answer. You can't I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna ban that mystery of all is why Jordan Hicks doesn't get the swing and miss. Yes, it's not like it's like a straight fast. It's a fucking one fourth sinker. There's just idea that a hitter has to prepare for one, oh, four. So if you could just harness anything else in zone, you feel like you feel like you quite literally have to physically be ready to hit a bullet being shown out of a gun. And then a fucking slider. I will say in fairness, he's getting more swing and miss than he did last year. Twenty one strikeouts in sixteen innings pitched this year compared to seventy strikeouts and seventy seven and two thirds innings pitched last year baffling like he should be he like at the end of the year. He should amass in oh call it seventy five inning. Strikeouts. Yeah. You'd like to see that with that change up a minute. Like fuck eighty four who just like a twenty mile an hour difference, you would see guys get hurt the some of the things that you from throw their leaks out swinging at it. You'd call them Jordan, the intercostal taker, because he would be reaping many intercostal than OBE leaks. 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Twitter time. Sure is what is more? Galore demoralizing fern offense getting no hit on one hundred thirty or more pitches or getting shut out with the opposing pitcher throwing less than ninety. Nucle-. He's basically asking whether like a worse. You know, hit sneaking grinded out sort of no hitter where the guys walking probably like six, or seven guys on one hundred Jack comes or basically, what we saw with sandy, Alcon, tra- against the Mets where he shut him out on eighty nine pitches. I love. I mean if you have if you have a no hitter where you've got like eight walks, like let's just use the Edwin Jackson. No hitter, for example, right? There's definitely some luck involved because if you're walking eight dudes you don't have your best stuff that day, you're not pinpoint accuracy. You're not pinpoint control. If you're gonna throw a complete game in less than ninety pitches. You're on your fucking eight-game game. That day. I know that there is a Lord to the no hitter. Obviously, it's a historical thing. But I think throwing a complete game shutout on call it eighty four pitches, or fewer, even just anything less than ninety. That's fucking impressive. That is masterful. I think it is a little bit more. Like you know what? What's the cutoff, though, like three hits are fewer something like that. Because I feel like you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to throw a complete ninety pitches or less forgiving up more than three or something like that. Well, that's where it gets crazy is because you could who knows you could scatter. Seven eight hits. Get yourself four five dollars. And so that's why like you have to really dive in to the outing, and that's we're game score and all that bullshit comes into play. But how were the Alice garnered, and look a lot of that impacts this just without all of the, the numbers and shit involved to be able to flip lineup three or four times? Not surrender a hit at the big deal to your point, though. Jared, you do have the ability to sort of navigate that lineup meeting, you find yourself at one hundred fourteen pitch, Mark. You know that you've got to three batters left. Maybe one of those batters represents a guy that could take away what you're trying to get done. You make sure he just doesn't have anything to hit. Right. Right. And he goes to first and now you go get your outs without giving hit at you. Walk eight guys, you've probably bypass those, those feared haters that you're talking about there. You throw a fucking complete game on eighty something pitches. You're, you're going right through. You're getting those outs. Both was old in a fine pitching performance because that individual didn't just intentionally walk those guys he pitched to them. We might have thrown them for pitchers pitches. He might have thrown them for pitches that they were going to have to. Swing at. But nonetheless, it was a pitchy performance. The stellar, the more sexual the skin fire worthy pitching performance is probably that eighty four piece CG shut piece. Is Evan longoria hall of fame player. No, he's in the hall. They're very good. At one point. So no. Yeah, I actually a Cup. What was it about a month ago? I looked at at an longoria because I was bored, because I think is careers, fascinating here. Few? Hot little nuggets for you through age twenty seven season. He ranked fifth among in war among all third baseman today. Byu in the live ball era, or later in nineteen twenty or later, and he was behind only four hall of famers. Eddie Mathews Ron Santo, George Brett and Mike Schmidt. That's through age twenty seven okay? It's probably probably when we all thought he was going to end up being hall of Famer. Through his age thirty one. He still ranked eleventh, so no longer inner circle type of guy, but still the eleventh greatest third baseman through age thirty one is, is pretty pretty fun. Good sins and he's hit to forty two eighty three four thirteen which is good for a six ninety six oh PS in six hundred sixty eight plate. Appearances completely fallen off the table express differently through his age twenty seven season. He was sandwiched between Mike, Schmidt and dick Alan among third basemen in war. Okay. From age twenty eight to thirty two which is entering this season. He sits between chase Headley and Sean Figgins. Get old dick sandwich. It's just. He's not very good anymore. He's, he's if you look at the overall like career wins above replacement, he's a lot closer than I thought he would have been but still will come up of hall of fame. Yeah. He's at fifty two point five per baseball reference right now. It's just you would need to be adding onto that, and it's really hard to see him, adding onto that in any substantial way at this point. Agreed. But man two thousand ten two thousand eleven that that time period. Sure looked like we were headed towards something like that, especially since. Hey, I'll be the bigger person here. I'll be the bigger person. Pablos animals having quite the resurgence year this year. So that kind of back on the hall of fame path is what you're saying. What's the next question, Jay? No matter how many times I shake piece still ends up on my boxers. Why is that? Because you're wearing boxers. And there you have it. We answered all sorts of questions here. True. Can Mr. havens show? Some love to the brewers pitching staff, especially the rotation for being excellent the past three or four weeks. I am only answering this question, because I was referred to as Mr. havens, which I think is very classy. Yeah. I will give them some credit. They have been better of late. I am still not convinced totally that this is a rotation that is going to be sufficient for the purposes of reaching the goals that they actually want to reach. But Brandon Woodruff in particular deserves some credit. Yes, he does not only for his. His performance, but also the way in which he's getting it done like, that's, that's a fastball that pops baby. And as I was alluding to earlier their rotation over the last twenty two games has a two point three zero Yara. With only ten home runs allowed in one hundred thirteen two-thirds innings so props to the brewers. There's the credit that they deserve. I'm still not convinced that it's a rotation that is World Series, caliber, but we'll see. Maybe I'll be apologizing for that, as well, is Jose Ramirez in a bad slump, second half of last year and start of this year, or is this, the Jose Ramirez, we should expect for the rest of the season, guys have been in on this. The floor is yours today. No, I'm actually asking. I'm not necessarily asking for the floor asking outsider, I want, I want you to take this. Okay. I think that we have probably seen the best the best of Jose Ramirez. Here's the thing. I think that at the start of the season before we saw any type of slump or drought, or whatever you wanna call it with Jose Ramirez. I think it was the safe take to say that anyway. Yes, that's absolutely true. That we've seen the best of Jose Ramirez. Thirty nine thirty four last year. With about eight wins above replacement. So that's the best that's the best season in many people's careers. Right. So which I guess which, which Jose Ramirez, do you think that we'll see closer to last year or what's going on now? 'cause I think it's, it's kind of like a soft take but I think he's somewhere in the middle. I don't think that he's. I would definitely lean towards last year, more like I definitely think that he can become maybe not MVP level. But I definitely think he's substantially better than what he's been to this point twenty nineteen. I would agree. Like last year was not a fluke. No, I don't think it was a fluke. I think we're probably heading more towards let's see, maybe, maybe a different a different version of his two thousand sixteen season. He hit three twelve that year which I think, is already well beyond what could happen at this point given that he's hitting one ninety seven through whatever we're at thirty five percent of the season or something like that. So I think that's probably gone. But if he posts a variation on that step on that triple slash line that wouldn't surprise me at all. Walk rate is down strikeout rate is up. I think the most the most curious thing is that like the power has just completely disappeared. Like he had a two sixty five eyeso- in two thousand seventeen he had a two eighty two I so in, in twenty eighteen it's at one ten this year, which is I mean it would basically be his lowest as a major league baseball player. Yet a lower one at twenty four team, but it was very briefly. It'd. His home run to fly ball. Rate is a third of what it was last year. So even the fly balls that he is hitting are not leaving the, and he's hitting actually more fly balls than needed last year. They're not leaving the ballpark at anywhere near the same rate, which is probably something that will smooth out a little bit. But. It's, it's, it's upsetting. Because it leased with the Lindores thing and the threat of him. No. Not being on the Indian's long-term lake. You could always at least look at say Ramirez is a guy that you had not only under contract, but at an extraordinarily team friendly rate. I would have voted his contract is the single best contract midgely baseball entering this year. So it's a really unfortunate turn for the Indians, we don't need to spend time on where they went wrong. But again, this is the problem with building stars in scrubs roster is that if, if the stars don't perform for performance, or injury related reasons which has been the case for the Indians, both. There's no margin for error, and Jose Ramirez has gone from being an MVP to a below replacement level player, which is a drop that nobody possibly could have seen coming. Well. Let me phrase it a different way. If he if you gave me an eight thirty or eight forty s over the remainder of this season, and said, would you take this from Jose Ramirez, I would say, yes, of course, of course, I think nine eighty last year. So if the Cleveland Indians had a KFC then he one thousand percent would have seen Jose Ramirez drop off coming because, you know, he would have just been like. Yeah. Fucking guy came out of nowhere like he was like a top prospector big international free agent side. He literally went from a utility guy who forces way into the lineup and then magically became an MVP candidate. And now he's kinda just back to being what everyone thought he was two three years ago. But yeah, I you don't just show that type of production that level production for entire season in revert back to below replacement level in off seasons time so hurt. That's what I was gonna say. Like I didn't wanna like, you know, build in an excuse, but it that would make way more sense than I just forgot how to be an MVP caliber player. Yeah. It's a huge because it is a massive drop off in production. I mean I it would take a long time to look. But I would have to think that for in terms of people who have finished top three in the MVP in consecutive seasons. This has to be one of the all-time one year. Dropoffs. And his Opie is down three hundred and forty points. Three hundred forty man. Bad and just for context since you brought him up. I wasn't thinking of him at all. But Brady Anderson in the year that everybody likes talk about actually only finished ninth in the MVP voting, and his drop from that year to the very next year was only one hundred seventy points so literally half of what Jose Ramirez current drop is, that's what we're talking about folks. Bad. Wow. How final thoughts final thoughts safe to say that it's no longer going to be referred to as a Brady. Anderson type drop off is that eight Jose Ramirez type drop-off necessary unnecessary very ugly. Eric shabas drop off how. Goal jolt. Six comes over. So that is this is a baseball nerd sparring going on punches landed fam-. Final thoughts while I don't necessarily have any other than can't wait to watch the rest of this Marlins Tigers series. Final thoughts. Final thoughts last time we talked folks boys and girls, I. I asked for the Oakland A's to perform a little better on the road. And have we actually? We've lost game on since I I asked for that. So are you drawing correlation between you ought to bring non? I'm thankful that. The Oakland A's are starting to play better on the road. You know, look, let's be honest, J. Hey, right. We took a look at the schedule we realize you all say this, it's been an unfortunate. This is or to turn of events for a team. And I'm not gonna throw a team's name out there right now. I think we could probably identify this team, but it's quite a fall from grace, when you consider yourself a perennial contender for division, and all in the same breath, us you kind of become a team on other teams schedules that they feel like they should just win. Like those are games. We should win. Watch your team go down that road. But guys, thanks for playing pre sheets. You're good hang out with you will see you next time to you calling for better road. Play leading up to a stretch against the AL central is essentially, like when the when an organization fires their manager right before they enter like a twelve game homestand against all of the worst teams in the sport. Just one of the press conference Dallas, good job. I'm just talking about a team. Looked like it needed to play better. No-doubt tires have struggled. There's no schedule just happened. Do you realize that the Oakland A's have beaten the Detroit Tigers? What is it fifteen games in a row? Jeez, like it was like before that game got rained out or got delayed, or whatever that was going to be. I believe the fifteenth or sixteenth game in a row. Speaking of the Oakland A's bread Anderson, what you tweaked, his neck or something is subserving subservient issues. Do you have any B E cropped key being Brett Anderson cropped up again, is what? Yeah. Israel shame. I some tweet about it after the game. And I clicked on his Twitter just to double check in. Nope. He's still on followed me. Off-break is still he's still but her that I didn't go go out to play with them. So. That was about to be sixteen straight, Dallas. Yup. Athletics over the Tigers and over that span, they've outscored them ninety seven to forty seven. Imagine just rolling like that was staggering is nobody else impressed by that. No, I am impressed. I love stuff like that. I mean, come on. You strap it on against bigly club. Fifteen times sixteen times in a row, and you lose all of them and prior to this particular four game series. So the three games that have actually counted so far. They've outscored them twenty eight to six. Not great kick out, the Ron Gardenhire interview, yet your of the Detroit Tigers. My final thought I actually had a fantasy trade accepted, while this trade was this podcast was going on. You guys wanna hear it? I love to hear it over the sounds of this fucking saw that sounds like in the middle of God, damn Cloverfield. Keeper league. My pitching is straight pooh-pooh so needed to address that if I want to compete at this point, it's revealing itself, I traded Jose altuve. Oh, wow. And Edwato Rodriguez. Okay irrelevant to the deal for Strasbourg and Casten era. Really putting the chips on Casten. So I will say this. I would I would be reluctant to ever make a deal with Jay and fantasy baseball. Because you're probably just getting fleeced. Whether you know it whether the other people in your league. No, it you will come out on the losing side of that deal. So just I wouldn't I would never with you also this about J fantasy league that he's in. I participated in it lasts differently. If the differently this to keeper league, I can't, I can't comment on it. Yeah, no, I get I get you don't want to give up a guy like how to lightly but we got a bit. We got plenty of core to build around with or without Alto. Vay Strasbourg immediately becomes our best pitcher by. Well, quite a lot, I guess, it depends on what you think of out Strasbourg against somebody like Cantona, Masahiro Tanaka. So that's who that's who we sliding ahead of very exciting stuff. Everybody loves hearing about other people's fantasy teams. Until Thursday until Thursday. When we, we have some some more segments to roll out for your bitch ass. That'd be great. In, in the workshop with Jared caravans.