Remind me to tell you that I'm sick and tired of your logic. What is the most illogical attitude Tony when you when you live alone now, all kinds of strange things happen greetings and felicitations. Hi, I'm Brad durif. This is Ethan Phillips. Hi there. I'm James Doohan off. This is Rene. Auberjonois. I play shapeshifter Odo sir. There's a multi legged creature crawling on your shoulder. Hi, this is max grodenchik ROM from Deep Space Nine on Billingsley. I played Doctor flopped on Enterprise and I said, and then I heard my voice say you said, and you should have said, huh? I said a computer I said it right you're wrong. Hi, this is John de Lancie. Hi, I'm George Takei in part because of the hopeful nature of jeans Vision, but also because of its message of wage. Diversity and inclusion. Hi, this is a Trek capsule special on a villain introduced in the original series episode errand of Mercy. That episode little did they know that that character in that race the Klingon would create a culture with its own language and a system of Honor will take a look at the facts on which has evolved as I said into more than just attractive going on this journey. I have dr. Mark Oakland who developed the Klingon language when I woke up developing Klingon that had a few things in mind some some more my ideas and some of them came from from you know from Harvard Bennett who was the writer producer Star Trek 3, which is the first film that I did Klingon for one of them was It was supposed to be an alien language which means it shouldn't be like any language on Earth but whatever whatever that means. So for that reason I try very hard not to make it resemble anything but in addition At the time all we know about Klingons was what we saw in the original series and the Klingons so that they were kind of the the most popular villains in the original series, but they were really featured as as major plot elements in three, maybe four episodes no more than that. So they weren't even they weren't at all over the place, Yeah, but they became the most popular ones anyway, so we know about how they behaved in the original series and I knew how they behaved in the script for Star Trek three, but that's all we knew and what we know what we knew was Klingons are mean and tough and more like an awful and Despicable. So I wanted to be we've learned better since then if that was at the time. So I wanted to make sure that the Klingon language that had developed did not resemble any Earth language because say if I accidentally resembled Thai then I've got other people in Thailand upset with me for you know, using the their languages and model for these the language of these bad guys. Yeah. Okay. So I so I tried very hard not to make a sound like anything in particular now having said that you can't help but be influenced by what you know. And what I know the most about besides English and some Indo-European languages are American Indian languages mostly from the west coast and some South East Asian language in Chinese. So little bits of those things would creep in there. But as soon as I realize I was doing something like one of those languages I would immediately stop and change gears drastically. So there's little bits and pieces of stuff in there, but hopefully not in any recognizable way from the TV series following a ten year Gap Star Trek the motion picture started shooting and Gene Roddenberry wanted the Clone not to speak with their own language to go along with their new-look the the story of Klingon and in the motion picture is when they when they made the motion picture, they knew that the plane was going to speak to agent know whose idea that was I don't know if it was Gene roddenberry's idea or somebody else. But there was a scene and that that scene where they speak cleaners is very very first thing in the movie. Yeah, there's three Klingon ships and one that I want they disappear and they're not in the movie anymore. But before that may I speak a little bit of Klingon scene after that is on Vulcan on the planet Vulcan and Spock is undergoing kind of a ritual called colon are he's going to ask me that accept call in our rights pure logic not seen the Vulcan scene was filmed with the actors speaking only English because that's what the script said to do. I'm going to Leonard, you know Spock didn't speak at all not seem but there was a woman conducting the ceremony that she had a helper know what anybody's title was and they spoke we spoke long lines and when they were doing post-production, the the folks decided that they should be speaking English. She's just she should be speaking Vulcan, right? Yeah. So it's a Vulcan ceremony on Vulcan. There's no one around town. Vulcans and we know that the Klingons are going to speak Klingon. So it seems silly to have Klingons speaking Klingon in the very next scene the Vulcan speak English. So they hired a guy from UCLA and harmless Scharf or something like that whose specialty was South Indian languages Sanskrit and things like this. Oh, wow to come up with Vulcan and what it was, you know, he looked at the at the the dialogue the English dialogue and looked at the lips of the woman in the guy who was speaking it and made up basically gibberish that that match the lip movements and when they were off camera, you could do whatever he wanted and that was when he did was modified a little bit I think Jimmy doing how do I had a hand in there too. But anyway, it was basically this sharp because he did that they said hey, why don't you make up Klingon as well? Cuz even though the Klingon scenes were at the very beginning of the movie there were shot at the end of the production schedule so he did something but they didn't like it for one reason or another. I have a dog. Idea why so Jimmy doing and one of the producers named John Pavel, the two of them together came up with some dialogue some Klingon stuff to say off and gave that to Mark Leonard. Who is the speaker he played the Klingon right? He's normally Spock's father. But Mr. The Klingon and then and then he said the lines and that's the origin of Klingon. There's maybe six seven thousand times. You know, one of them is I don't know if that counts as a line. Yeah, and that's it. Now. There's actually more than that, but you can't hear it. So there's there's this there's a scene off during that sequence on a federation Lookout station or something where you see the Klingon Mark Leonard on a viewscreen and he's actually about something and he recorded all that in in in in the office on dialogue they gave him but you can't hear it really so that sort of doesn't count. And what counts is the is the is the the basic basic stuff of Klingon is those half a dozen lines are so that you can hear very very clearly when he spoke. Yeah, and yeah Jimmy doing and John Cole feel responsible for that after the film's came Star Trek the Next Generation, but Klingons may have to take a back seat and and in genome Barry's original conception for the I'm told I didn't hear this from jeans mouth. But in the original conception for the Next Generation when he was talking about when he said he didn't want to have episodes where the major clubs had anything to do with Vulcans or Klingons. He said it's a big Galaxy out there. There's lots of other folks for us to learn about in to interact with and so we've already discussed Klingons and walk-ins right in the original series. So let's go somewhere else, but then they put Wharf on the bridge at the Enterprise and for the first season, he would he was the only Klingon 2 till almost to the end of the first season when a couple other Klingons showed up and after that it took off after that day Incorporated Klingons over the place in the in the whole culture was fleshed out and development became really interesting. Let's take a break but back in the middle of second is the most illogical attitude. Well, maybe a little longer. Back on Trek capsule with more conversations from every Trek generation the weather things that I usually did when when I got the job was vowed to to change the perception of Klingons and although we didn't have major discussions about it. Jean Genie allowed me to create the wharf character anyway, I wanted to and so what I did was I took we had to do a different voice number one because the voice was a human like, you know, originally although deepest and so I just took it and made it English, you know, made him a really eloquent, you know, instead of saying we can't, you know, we cannot you know and and make it very stilted and very very eloquent. So and also the same with the fighting sequences, you know, originally it was like screaming and yelling and hitting with two And you know just really kind of wild stuff and I and I went to one of the special effects supervisors on our show who was a martial arts expert and I said look, you know, I want to change it's all around. Let's do something that is wrong is violent, but almost like martial arts like, you know, so every move is is is choreographed and it is every if you make a move here getting prepared for the next move and so it looks real, you know, like like a dance, you know, except they can rip your throat out, you know or something and so that's that's without. My whole point is to is to change the Klingons where they weren't just you know, these wild guys and and made him a little different. As the culture expanded we met more characters and even one of the leaders of the Klingon Empire played by Robert O'Reilly Galvatron and another series Star Trek Deep Space, Nine Klingon came into Focus who was instrumental to Worf General martok played by JG hertzler. Geron was a very ambitious ruler and he was actually rewriting history much to worst Chagrin. How do you see him now, What we're going through now, somebody must have watch that show too. I think what I heard was it was a natural ability of when you switch shows. I didn't expect to I started off with next-gen and actually thought I was pretty heroic figure it could because I was coming from a family clean on family that was sort of outside the realm that they were royalty, but the way that the description was is that I was not an acceptable sort of person for and how I became dead. This battle with with the other Klingon to take over with never actually explained then one once I did take over and get it then when Michael Jordan was moved over to a Jeep space line. I knew I was probably going to do one of two things be killed off or get transferred over and and once I got transferred over I knew exactly what was going to occur. I would become You Know The Enemy to some way or or degree or they needed people to fight to get into the show and I was in natural. There was interesting as they made me a political figure and not just I figured if I was going to fight I'd probably only last season so the alternative was to become political and and they did that to me and I lasted the full run of of Deep Space Nine, which was excellent in my own opinion. He was dead. But but I have no, you know, it's like I'm one of those actors, you know, you give me the job I do it, you know, it's like the less I give my own opinion about it. I feel like that's what I should be doing getting my less opinion about it and and just do the job. There is certain things. I liked disliked, but I'm not a writer, you know, and and they have to go off the full spectrum. They have a much harder job. I feel and a much more, you know free job to go and and create you know and jge, you know, I I thought in some ways martok was interesting because in some ways he was kind of a mentor and surrogate father for for War facts and was instrumental in helping him after the death of his wife and so am I on the right track with him or does he view log? If more is a comrade, it didn't start out that way. I I the the first really significant episode that I was in was off once more into the breach. Yes, and I that was with John colicos who was coming back coming forward really the first Klingon ever John Colby goes that's right. He was coming in to earn himself an honorable death. I guess he knew he was dying and he wanted to somehow Crown his life with an honorable death, which is everything to a Klingon and he came to me, but I would not No, I'm confusing two episodes. The first episode was these are my two favorite episodes. So I do get a mixed up soldiers of the Empire. Oh, yeah in Soldiers the Empire which was directed by LeVar Burton martok was presented as a man who has lost his courage lost his nerve a Klingon that's lost his heard disrespected. His ship was disrespectful. It was he was like the the if there was a like a cursed ship in the Navy that was it his his ship and found the the the Klingon crew hated themselves hated the ship hated him and Worf came on and Jadzia also wage, but Worf put me in a position where I could actually behave in such a ways to overcome by fear wolf character after and he did it down. And I did overcome my fear of the jem'hadar and at the end we I welcome making part of how smart dog. So he was part part sun part brother. That was the most that was probably the most emotionally fulfilling episode I ever got a chance to do because it really pushed Mar talk to his emotional ends about being a would all said and done being a coward being afraid. Yeah. There are things that I would I would undertake now accept as John and except that I you know, there are too many people involved in this too much chance of a chance of failure, but I would love to be able to do it. It's anyway Wharf provided martok with that possibility it worked out in that it's made in part of my house which fulfill the need that he had. Well, oh absolutely. No, that was great. It was great. The whole Klingon storyline on DS9 was awesome. And you gotta credit the guy who really knew how to write him running away. The war will give you more man. You're right. He he had those great Klingons stories man. It was he had great great command of Klingon culture. And yeah, and if you've ever met a girl on yes, he is the most like whatever the opposite of overbearing is. He he's the most humble man. He's yes, he's a he's a genius but he's so humble. He's so non-aggressive non demonstrative of this is how much I know, you know, it's just not there and I have the greatest respect for but the other the other thing in my case with with once more into the breach LeVar Burton was a director. Yeah once more into the breach and I think James Conway dead. Cracker directed soldiers in the Empire know I'm sorry. I'm screwing it up. Again Lavar directed Soldiers the Empire Alan cracker yet another Guardian directed once more into the breach. They were both fabulous directors Michael VAR was basically he was a a d p and a director and I was he was sort of a very talk about a very humble man. He was you never hear about him. In fact, he's he's unfindable. I'm trying to walk them through the through all those resources we have and he just does not want to be found. You know, he's so he has a anyway I thought that we had great writers like Ron more we had great directors and terrific actors and the guy in charge Ira. Oh, yeah, you know, he just loved Ira loves actors and he loves storytelling above all and in that way. He was I think sort of like Gene Roddenberry. He tried to find the most important things to say and put them in a Sci-Fi context has the Klingon popularity spread some removed to speak the language and take it further Dr. Marko green. Some folks were members of something called the Klingon Language Institute. That's right, which is an organization of people who study Klingon very very very seriously and among its members are some people who are excellent speak Klingon some of them, you know, absolutely fluent. They can they can do simultaneous translation at least Klingon to English and carry on discussions entirely and Klingon and they write things in Klingon and so on Thursday, uh, yeah. Yeah. There was the line in in in Star Trek six. Yeah, where where the the chancellor of the Klingon Empire said, you know, you you can't really appreciate Shakespeare to you right up in the Iraq. Klingon has showed the members of the Klingon language is just said well if the works of Shakespeare were originally written in Klingon, we owe it to the world or to the Galaxy not translate but to restore the works of Shakespeare back to the original Klingon and that was that was what started that project the only thing that existed only Shakespeare landed existing when they started was to be or not to be everything but I didn't I didn't to be or not to be but they did the whole rest of the play. Yeah. Yeah, it was delivered. So well too in the early days there were CD-ROMs remember those and dark Trek Klingon was one of them I played it. Here's Dr. Marko green and Robert O'Reilly. And yes JG hertzler. Were you can order it? You couldn't you couldn't buy it there and walk home with it, but you can pre-order it and it wouldn't they don't send it to you, but they had some setups you could play with it and try it out. And I said, I'm going to go try out this language lab. Because I skipped the whole rest of the other thing went straight to the language lab and went to the part where I'm supposed to read a word and say it back in here how I did so the word popped up now. I'm making this up. I don't remember what it was but it's not plot and I said, plot and then I heard my voice say you said, and you should have said, huh? I said no computer. I said it right you're wrong. That's funny. That's a great story. Yeah. I mean, I I remember well, I meant the language lab actually took place in the Holodeck. Okay, and then he would appear in the holidays and he were you know, you know who he would introduce himself and then we're going to you know, we just get going and you know impatient as I was a lot of times I kind of skipped that and welcome to the story and of course, that's why he cursed at me cuz I I didn't do it right but yeah, there's bits and pieces of it maybe even the whole thing that you can see on YouTube. Yeah, I think so and a lot of separate videos I was dead. I was privileged to sort of do a whole dictionary kind of a thing. I did a CD-ROM and they added a whole section of learning Klingon and I was to be the teacher wage and it was some of the first tries at trying to do I don't know what you would call it but a video where somebody could talk back and and and I would tell you whether you did it, right the technology wasn't there but the idea was and but I couldn't do any of it because so they flew Mark in to sit next May and I he would tell me how to do the word and and I would do the word and he said no Bob. That's not right. You have to spit more. So it was very nice covid-19. Not not good the way Klingons talk and so we would definitely have to wear masks, but he he just he was very patient with me and sometimes yep. Have they say a word like three or four times before I got the actual accent and was able to turn the camera and he was literally two feet away from him and then the camera was two feet away from me. So he would tell me I would try it and then I do it to camera and this went on for two days. I think we took us two days to film it. It was a lot of fun and and and I enjoyed but you know Mark that I sort of became fairly close then and it was great that we got to know each other and then through the years we've gotten to know each other better. Well, what's funny is that I played that CD-ROM and I went to the language lab work out on appears on the on the Holodeck, right? And and so me being a little younger and more impatient I said, I don't want to do the thing. Let me go right to the ship and I'm on the Klingon bird-of-prey and I I do something or say something that's not wrong. And garron would appear and essentially cursed me out and Klingon every time you should have been cursed out and that's right. That's right. That was a lot of fun to do that. I have to admit. Is this the CD-ROM called Klingon? Yeah start going on. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I was I think I was on that page as I played the old Klingon I didn't have much to say. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was your first Klingon. I think that was absolutely was and off when I when I read for that Jonathan Frakes directed it and when I read for that I came to a sequence in learning learning the reading a script over night before I went in to audition. There was a sequence it was in Klingon three or four or five lines and I said wow, this is ridiculous. I have no idea how to pronounce these words and I don't know what they mean. Unscrew that. I'll use a foreign language. I'll use I don't know. What can I use French know French sounds like French Spanish German getting closer. I said, oh I know Latin and the because my mother was a Latin teacher. I took too much Latin through through high school and college but I learned and memorized a long long long long time ago 1971 a thing called sisserou's 4th or Asian against cattle line. And so I took it right into it. I was saying blood walk you see that is coastguard hundred Meg retainer in Catalina party at the announced program on freedom. So it went on for a while and when I was done Frank said, you know, I've never had anybody auditioning in in Latin before was laughing at me and he said but I am Of Latin and he said I there's nothing written for you in this in this CD-ROM, but I'm going to ask the writers to write you in so long. That's how I got that first job on Bob's CD-ROM. Yeah, there you go, and he's on the cover and as it's always been but the Klingons weren't done. They showed up a Star Trek Discovery a new Star Trek series, you know, what's interesting about about Klingon in Discovery season 1 of Discovery. Yeah is very clear on heavy wash. Yeah in in terms of the plot and in fact, you know episode 1 the the opening scene is what it goes on for seven or ten minutes or something entirely in Klingon. Yeah. I didn't work on Discovery for Klingon. All the dialogue in Discovery was translated by two people primarily a woman from Vancouver name Robyn Stewart and a little bit off by a guy in Indiana named Ellen Anderson. Both of them excellent speakers of Klingon and they're the ones who translated the dialogue into Klingon. And then that's and that's what the actors said. I think Robin Hood was there to coach them, but she was on the phone or something all the time with them. Oh, wow. So they did that. They didn't make anything up grammar wise or vocabulary wise that's all the stuff that I did but they did actual translation work. Wow. I mean it sounded pretty good. I mean, I was very good. It's very good the ACT. Yeah, the actors did a really good job. They they speak in in in in in kind of a shakespearian way. Sometimes there is speak like this remote, you know have their pronunciation is good. And then the and the the sentence is the grammar and all that stuff is spot-on. How did you kind of approach kelpien? Yep. It was very different, you know, the the whole structure of the language is different in discussions with the The Producers. They had a couple of ideas of what kelp and should sound like so I gave them a few samples. They they suggested two things in particular one is they wanted kelpien to have cliques like some great languages and Iraq and Africa. Yeah. Yeah and and things like that. I wasn't so sure how readily the actors would be able to Bruce them. So I put in one-on-one clicks, so they may kind of noise like that. That's fine. And they also wanted to be kind of melodic so it's sort of sad so as sort of a tonal language it goes up and down like this. Yeah, in addition to the clicks popping in everything that was that idea came from producers the particular grammatical structure and all that was was zombie. Wow, and then then then the actors spoke. I never actually worked with Subaru with Doug Jones Yas. On any of his I did work with some of the some of the other actors. Oh that's amazing. I know they're alien sounding language, you know, it seems incredible. Yeah, I mean sing song singing. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. They do they tell boy was that in a an adventure? Yeah, there's always surprises it would start. You know, it's always the way it is or something last as long as Star Trek you can develop many of the different races like Klingons covering their development has been a lot of fun for me the Klingons from trucks bad guys took a warrior culture. What a strange Journey indeed. This is Tony. Tellado. Hi, this is Rene. Auberjonois. I play shapeshifter Odo on Star Trek Deep Space Nine and you're listening to a Sci-Fi talk.