How To Think Like An Innovator - Terry Jones
Shell Oil for example is now building themselves into your car entertainment system. So they'll say gee are running low on gas. We have a station. Just two kilometer ahead. You fill up now. I'll give you two coupons for coffee by the way it knows to coupons because the INSEAD MONITOR STOLEN. There were two people in the car. My washing machine for example can automatically order the detergent when it's running low. My printer orders my own ink and my Brito orders its own filters IOM mission Lucchini founder of Mine Valley the School for human transformation. You're listening to the mind podcast where we'll be bringing you. The greatest teachers and thought lead us on the planet discussed the world's most powerful ideas personal growth. A mind body. Erin Hi everyone and welcome back to the Mind Valley. Podcast once again. We're recording under some pretty strange circumstances. I'm in house. Quarantine because of the corona virus and where running mine valley and all about operations two hundred and fifty people all working from home interacting on Google hangouts and so we've been bringing on guest and bring on speakers that could help bring clarity meaning understanding some sense of comfort during this confusing time and about two months ago. I met this remarkable man. I was at an event in Panama City. And he was a speaker. Stamos Terry Jones. And what he's accomplished like this truly revolutionary. He's founder of travelocity. The FOUNDING CHAIRMAN OF KAYAK DOT COM USING KAYAK DOT COM for ten years almost to to book flights. It is one of the most useful Internet websites. I have in my life and Terry began career. As a travel agent he jumped to startups and spent twenty years at American Airlines serving in a variety of management positions of was at American Airlines that he led the team to stop trump law city in each changed the travel industry now that industries in industry going through some massive disruption right now because of the situation at hand but that is not the topic of this podcast. Rather what we're going to talk about. Is Terrace work? As innovator as thinker as thought leader helping people around the world think about how to disrupt their own companies so that they can rise into the next evolution off their business so tell us the author of a book. I'm halfway through the book right now and it's a beautiful stunning book. Just kinda groups you it's called disruption off at technological disruption coming for your company and what to do about it by Terry Jones founder of travelocity founding chairman of Kaya Dot Com. Go check out the book title Resonates With You. It's disruption off you can google it simply put in disruption often. You'll find it but here's why this topic is so interesting today during this time when so many businesses are being disrupted by corona virus. What if we can use the fact that we are? Kinda like under house arrest to use this time to actually think about. What are we going to shift in our lives and shipped in our business when we come out of the situation and when we come out of this situation as everyone is putting the pieces back together again. What if we can put the legal expect together in such a way that we're not just doing regular business? But we are leveraging changes in the world new technologies new business models to we build ourselves better than before so. I know you're going to enjoy this conversation. Let's welcome onto the mind body. Podcast Kerry Jones Terry. How are you today very well? Thanks for having me Terry. I was really impressed by your talk. The one that need to live in Panama City. Sean excited to have you as a guest but first let me ask you how you doing today with everything that's happening. Well I'm doing very well. I'm lucky I way up in the mountains in Nevada at a ski resort so we have lots of snow. And we're on lockdown as well. My wife says advance lime disease. So that'd be very careful with her so we're just staying home in having time to write and read and think about disruption among other things because certainly we're in the middle of that falsely really starting to hear about your wife and the situation you're in but it is nice that you are in the ski resort. That's a pretty comfortable place to be locked. Hold up in yeah. It's very nice. Unfortunately we had tons of snow in the resorts all closed. But it makes it easy to go outside. Be Alone and walk the dog in. It's unusual for me because I like you. I travel so much but it's great to have the time and and I have the time to read. I think I think that's what's interesting about what you said at the beginning. You know if you think about businesses today across the world. They're closed and they're losing money and they're going to be very worried about restarting the business. But I think it is a time when you can look out at all. The new technologies and new business models that are available to you now many being used by startups and it's an established business. Say Hey it's time for me to think about those. And how could I apply them in my business in a way that I can accelerate my growth out of this great disruption right right? You know what I love Terry is for you to give us a pathway to think about that as a business owner myself I can tell you I do. Have that sense of worry. We don't know when this is going to end but I wanNA use this time and I know many business owners who are listening to this. WanNa use this time to really reflect. Think and ask ourselves. How can we become better than before? And I love to give us a glimpse of how you think about it because you invented entire industries. I mean the whole thing with travelocity. Is that from what I understand? You help create the online travel industry where people could go and book their own flights. That was a massive destruction to the entire industry and had gathered American Airlines the edge that made it become one of the dominant allies in the world. It did and we hope that it would be big. We didn't know that it would be as big as it was in fact no one believed us when we took the company public. I kinda played to empty rooms. It was the beginning of the Internet age and everybody thought unlike shopping would be bigger and all kinds of other technologies would be bigger than actually traveled turned out to be but believe it or not travel is the largest part of Internet commerce. It's larger than the next three categories. Combine that evolved taking risk. In the way my book is written I talk about many many new technologies and many new business models in order to open. Everyone's mind what's coming but the end of the book is really about. What can I do about it thinking about all these technologies and all these new business models? Why haven't I already done this? So that's when we talk about what to do and I guess on say the number one thing in business today that I see particularly established business is businesses. Stop taking risk. Every business was formed by a risk taker as corporations get larger and they keep focused on quarterly earnings risk stop. Every startup is a risk in seventy five percent of them fail but in corporations. It's very hard to have any kind of failure. And that's the biggest change I think businesses have to make is to say. I am going to experiment with these new technologies. I am going to experiment with new business models. There are many other things that talk about that businesses can do but I think the number one thing is to say I'm going to build a culture where experimentation is welcomed failure is understood doesn't have to be a big failure and that people feel safe and comfortable to try and take a risk and once you do that then somebody could say hey. Let's Adopt Three D. Printing. Let's use robotics and you try to. Maybe it doesn't work. That's okay try something else. Because the only way the world moves forward is through experimentation mostly failure and then suddenly a great success which is what happened with travelocity. Now what does that mean for the world today? The so many emerging new technologies coming into place the world is changing it such a rapid pace and I know the innovators in Silicon Valley and other hot spots around the world accrue aiding these tools with the potential to disrupt the way. We live our lives from augmented reality to artificial intelligence as a business owner. What a things that we have to keep in mind. And how can we better take advantage? These emerging opportunities again. I think it is sitting down and hopefully looking through a list of technologies. And they're in my book but they're also online of what is happening in our people are doing them in industries maybe totally different than yours. Which will spark than I did is say I could do that. I could do that because so many times. You hear about people who look at a start up in their industry and say how do they do that? I couldn't do that except of course you can do that. Because you have things that startups would kill for. You HAVE THE FACTORY. You have the supply chain. You have the brand. You have the sales force. You have capital startups. Have none of that. Would they have is technology. Encourage right so if you look at it and say take an industry that's been turned on its head by Three D. printing ninety percent of hearing aids in the world or now three D. printed. The happened in less than four years. Who would've thought that right? But the companies. That didn't make the jump are here anymore. Because they didn't really see the value except the customer did because guess what those hearing aids are customized to you or think about the fact that. Ge just got the first jet engine part approved to be Three D. PRINTED. And now they've got a part that's cheaper lighter stronger faster to make. And what about the thirty? Different subcontractors made that before the people shipped it the boat the truck the customs broker. All those people are needed. There disrupted by simply one three D. Printer. So wouldn't it be better for you if you're a manufacturer to say hey? I'm GonNa Work With these airframe manufacturers and put a three D. Printing facility right next door. I'm the one who prince. How can I adopted and change my business before somebody else comes in cuts my feet off? You know you just said something. That just made me go. Why didn't I think of that? You're right so many people who have established business right now Afraid of the startup. That's going to disrupt them a remember. The story you told when I last saw you speak about that. Short I service for the apple and how they got interrupted by Uber and I wanted to tell that story because well firstly. It's a fascinating story but there's also a good warning in there for all of us were working for a business running a business but you just made me realize that yes. We are in such a better position than startups. Because we know the industry we have the clients. We have a little bit of capital and we could disrupt ourselves so alice that story. I'd start by saying something I say. Lot that innovation disruption are just two sides of the same coin you only call it a disruption when you don't do it if you do it it's an innovation right. The point is grab it and do it and the story goes like this. I was writing to the airport with a limo service that I used many times. It takes about two hours to get to the airport and the owner of the company said would I review is website. You knew my background and I thought well usually a charge people a lot of money for that but you know he's a small business. I could help them looked at his website and it was pretty. But you couldn't book and there was no pricing and I said why can I book and he said well. I want people to call me and I said Well Ed is the twenty th century. No one does that. You know what would travel to be like if you had to call or call to get a price niece Arale. That's just the way I do it. You know I've always done it that way and I said look when you do this. 'cause I think you're GONNA get flattened by UBER why. He opened a second website. College San Clemente Online Limo. Use the same cars in the same driver as except with that website. Let people Price and let them book and give your drivers some technology like smartphone. So they know what's going on more cost you more than buying a new limo. He said well you know. I only know that seems pretty hard for me. I said howling and he said fifty five. I said you know. I don't think you're GONNA make it to retirement. You're not going to be sixty five and still own this company. If you don't change well. The rest of our ride was in silence. And unfortunately about six months ago I got an email that is company had gone bust. He had the opportunity to change to innovate except he let himself be disrupted in for him. It was simple. He could use a bunch of standard tools and things were around and leverage his brand. His drivers is cars to continue his business but he couldn't change and he was afraid of taking that risk and I think it's a good allegory for so many businesses that sometimes it's much harder to change your business. But you have to do it. You don't WanNa historical marker saying here was the Jones company a great contributor to our community employing thousands. It's gone now. Nobody wants a historical marker for their business. They WANNA be in business and that takes having the courage to change. I love that I love that story in such a powerful lesson over there. Now where do we get started? How do we think about disruption? What type of framework would you recommend? I think about these various technologies that are coming into place and the new business models. Let's take one outcomes. There are many models but outcomes is an interesting new model so phillips the Lighting Company Makes Light Bulbs just went to skip all airport and said instead of light bulbs we want to say. You light the airports at what said we just want to contract the light. The airport for the next twenty years and they got that contract and in so doing now. Phillips immediately put in lights that use less power because they're paying the power bill they put in lights that lasts a lot longer. Because they're buying the bolts not the airport and now they even through the circular economy take the bulbs apart recycling remanufacturing them to lower their manufacturing costs. And guess what they've got a long term contract. That is way more profitable in selling light bulbs. I worked with Honeywell. Last year honeywell has made sensors for over one hundred years that are used in manufacturing plants that when something fails the red light goes on right. Well they moved from sensing to meaning. So it's red light going on that. Actually get a little computer message that said compressor for has failed. The air conditioning is often this area a move from that to action. Now when the sensor goes off you'll see something on the screen that says compressor down in Area for backup turned on service is dispatched. That's obviously worth way more money than selling a sensor. So they're selling an outcome. You need to look at these. New Business Models Outcomes subscriptions directed consumer. We could talk about more of them and see how they might apply to. Your Business. One of the great models of course is the new razors that come by subscriptions to subscription very large subscription razor companies. Here in the United States nobody ever thought about subscription for a razor because what their way cheaper than the racers that you buy in the store and of course the company now knows you as an individual which mass marketers never did get to know you. They can sell you many more things because they have a relationship with you as opposed to the traditional razor company that had no relationship saying things happening with boxed dinners still have opening a grocery store. I'm going to sell your groceries in a box is still cook them. But it's way more profitable so investigating technologies and then this getting business models you might use new technologies with new business models. You might use just new business models to apply to your current business while I loved that level of thinking and I love this concept. You just said outcomes. That's a beautiful idea. Let's talk about the second one subscriptions. Well you know we've had subscriptions of course for many things for a long time like magazines and newspapers. But they're all kinds of consumer products. You can get dog food by subscription. Almost anything. It's recurring you can now subscribe to and it's fairly simple model but again. I want to tell people that the other part of that that so powerful is that as a corporation instead of just shipping your goods out to the big box store now you actually know the Terry is getting razor and how often he uses it and you can begin to communicate with them online and learn more about them and sell them more things. I mean I just bought a new Oven Call Bravo. And it's an infrared oven about size microwave cook super fast and it has built in recipes and it gets updated every week when new recipes. Kind of like my Tesla gets updated. But guess what I can actually order meals to be delivered her box to my home through my other one of the fascinating. Things that people are doing now is using technologies. Like big data and the cloud and connectivity to have connected products. So there's a thermometer that's out connects your iphone. You take the temperature trial and it says your child has a fever. What are the other symptoms and it says? This looks like something where you need a doctor. Would you like me to connect you to a doctor in real time by telehealth? Well that's a whole lot. More profitable and more wonderful for the consumer than just thermometer so connected products are another part of this subscription model that are making companies much more profitable in building loyalty. John Deere Tractor Company now has connected tractors day for the first time. Know exactly how their customers are using attractor before they used to get that information anecdotally through the distributor. Maybe once a year and a meeting now they can look at every tractor real time. Understand how people are using. Let me give you another related example. I was at a meeting and met some agricultural bankers and they said we just reprogrammed our system so not transaction takes more than five minutes. So that's good. You know everything should be fast. We learned that a Kayak but why five minutes he said. That's how long it takes the farm to get from one end of the field to the other in while they're driving. They all have computers in their tractors. They're doing other things like banking but when they get to the end of the field. They got to turn the tractor round unload the product. Do all the stuff. And by the time they get back they'd kind of forgotten where they were the transaction so we were able to understand that our customers changed and we now have five in customer. That's the kind you can get by being connected. It's a concept that I call the book owning the edge. You see the edge used to be about being at first and main you know downtown right on High Street now. The edge is being on the edge of the glass whatever device the customer is using so Shell Oil for example is now building themselves into your car entertainment system. So they'll say gee are running low on gas station just two kilometers ahead. If you fill up. Now I'll give you two coupons for coffee by the way. It knows to coupons because the INSEAD MONITOR STOLEN. There were two people in the car. Right Amazon has done a terrific similar job. They started with those little dash buttons but now they have an API so that my washing machine can automatically order the detergent when it's running low. My printer orders my own ink and my Brito Orders. Its own filters now. That's an incredible walk right. That is really exciting awake. Sorry my daughter just came in the room. High Eve recording podcast. Thank you. You're like the BBC live came in and started talking to well while we all stuck at home right and the schools are all close. But no I'm everywhere. This is so cute I mean I was thinking about my kid. This is so mind blowing. Now let me ask you a question Terry and I didn't mean to call you. I'm sorry I was talking to my kit. How would this apply the people who are in my industry right? The Education Industry the transportation industry coaches healers people who are in the business of education. Most of them have an online. 'cause they tend to stop there. How you see. This industry being disrupted. I'll give you an example so I'll take your first online and then we can go beyond. I met a guy. Actually Malaysian born in Malaysia. Grew up in the. Us went off Vietnam when he started working in build. A big outsourcing company for computer engineers and he had to train all these Vietnamese employees. And he did that very successful and he said the US so I came back to the US and the open. A company called Kinsey Academy where he hired people who were down on their luck. Maybe a truck driver lost his job amid lawyers. I met a woman had been incarcerated. All one start again in the created two year engineering program to turn up computer engineers in two years extremely successful but with a new business. Model the way it works. Is You pay nothing while you're at school but you pay eighteen percent of your salary for three years after you graduated. If you make over sixty thousand dollars we make less than sixty thousand. You don't pay anything. Guess what ninety eight percent of the people graduate almost all making over sixty thousand dollars so it allows people who don't have a lot of money to get education quickly. Then they cut the class to one year and they ended that because so many people being hired after one year and then they made it online so they moved from Indianapolis to nationwide the moving around the world with this program. It is a little different. It's a flipped classroom which I'm sure you know where it's not about. Lectures the professor is right there with you all the time. You're actually doing real product creation. So it's real time. Everybody gets the help they need. You're not just sitting there being lectured to and it turns out. It's way more successful in many other boot camps and this new business model that's bolted to it allows people who don't have the money to go through education and by the way we get them all part time jobs while they're in school so they're all doing things like customer support at home and other jobs they can do because of course they have to eat and pay the rent while they're going to school. That's amazing what is this company called. It's called Kinsey K. I N. Z. E. Kinsey Academy based in Indianapolis started by Greg Guy Chuck. I met him in spoke there and got to know the people and now joined the board because I really believe in it. I mean. Obviously that model doesn't have to work just for becoming an engineer. It could be any kind of class. But they're focused on the demand particularly here in the United States and I'm sure around the world. We have the same thing. These engineers aren't going to Google and apple and facebook. They're going to traditional companies. Who are trying to disrupt themselves in desperately need engineers to become a new smart company. They're able to get great jobs because there simply aren't enough engineer. Sin There aren't going to be enough a lot of other people yes. Ai is going to disrupt some jobs. But as we all know it's going to create many others data scientists yesterday the number one growing job in the world. We don't have enough of them so we could get back to some of the changes you have to make in your own company. One of them. I call don't play pinball you and I are old enough to play pinball machines and they're still around some places a use that and you saw the video in my speech a picture of a ball going through a pinball machine. 'cause that's the Whitney big companies make decisions they bounce off these little rubber bumpers and you have a new idea out there in. It says will. We can't write the code for that and marketing says we could ever market that if you get through them then. Sales says they can't sell it in customer service. Says they can't support it any get through those traps. Then they bring out the big guns with his little flippers at the bottom of a pinball machine and those are finance and legal department to kill everything right. And that's what happens in a big company in a startup. It's just you know a guy and a girl underdog and they say yes so one of the big changes that companies have to make is to build a culture where everyone says yes that their job is to say yes to something new. It's very easy to say. No because you can say no and then go back to work. Leave the meeting. No that was a bad idea. Shut it down but you'll never change. It's hard to say yes. It's risky to say yes but everybody in a company has to say yes and get behind the new idea and get it over the finish line for you actually to transform in disrupt yourself. I loved that went in a company. That's larger than one hundred people. How do we stop sort of greasing the wheel? So it's easier for people say yes. It really has to come from the top. It is about leadership because I believe the best ideas and company come from the bottom from the people on the front line. The salespeople customer service people the manufacturer people they know what's going on. I was out at an airplane manufacturing plant. They made small single engine planes and I saw all these can look like emails stuck on various workstations and I went to read them. They were actually emails from customers. Some of them saying this is the best airplane seat I've ever sat in. It's amazing well that's GonNa make somebody feel good at the other. One said the door on this plane is terrible. It's always windy and noisy. Well that kind of information flowing back and forth to the line person is terrific but if management doesn't support it it will never happen. So here's the most important thing goes back to risk. The leader of the company has to stand up and say. Hey we're trying this new idea. Bob's running it and by the way it was a smashing success. And you know Bob gets a big round of applause and then this is another Laura. Did this it failed. And we're getting Laura another chance because we kill projects. Not People wasn't about her. It was just an idea that fail. Look I'm just finishing biography of Thomas. Edison it's unbelievable. How many thinks he tried that fail before he invented the LIGHTBULB and improve the record player and basically built the movie industry in so many other things but he tried thousands of things that fail? But you have to celebrate failure along with success and when you do that and when people see that there's really no risk and the boss is okay if the idea fails we're going to try again then you'll get people standing up and saying. Hey I want to try this. The ideas will flow to you from the bottom of the organization but normally they're interrupted by a thing. I call the Bozon wear. That's not the ozone layer. This is the impenetrable air of That stops good ideas for moving upward. It's not their fault. It's that they're not rewarded to take risk so unless you start that top down. I you can't get the bottom of later in the bottom up is where the best ideas come from travelocity. We started in one thousand nine hundred ninety six paging people in their flights relate and yes we re paging because no one had cell phones. Pagers nobody'd ever done that. It was amazingly successful. Then idea came from a customer service agent. She said I'm tired of answering the phone. Can we pay these people? But we hadn't had a culture where those ideas could flow. It never would've happened. I love that I love that. Gosh okay like I'm feeling so on fire right now. There are so many things I want to like. Think about a rethink or disrupt. I actually can't wait to get to my morning scrum right now. So thank you personally. This is a huge dose of motivation. And what about this conversation is that anytime likeness and so easy to focus on the negative right but what I'm finding? Is that actually being at home? Being this peaceful environment with my children is actually allowing my mind to expand in different ways. It's not do but it's giving me more time to reflect. I think I'm still getting stuff done. But as I'm reflecting and thinking so many ideas are emerging and I bet many people listening DYSFUNC- casts who might be stuck at home as a noticing the same phenomenon. I think that's right. I mean it is the perfect time to do this in it hopefully disruption off can give you a framework for that you think about things in a company like marathons sprints well in little company is all a sprint but in a big company. You've got to run the marathon. I've gotTA support my staff. I've got to get the earnings done. I've got to produce the product but at the same time you have to have sprints you have to have these little experiments that are going on all the time and that's hard to do and sometimes it takes different people to do marathon since sprint said travelocity. I brought a bunch of mainframe programmers over to program for the web because they knew travel and it turns out. They didn't like it. And we were changing on a dime. We were cancelling projects. We're very customer responsive. They WANNA go back. To writing big plotting mainframe one year things so we sent them back because they couldn't do the sprint. But at the time travelocity was all sprint but in big companies. You do both so people kind of self select to that. There's some people who like the start up changing failing trying again environment and there's some people like to come in and work on the line and do the same thing every day and that's perfect you need both. But if you're just running marathons guess what you're GonNa get outsprinted by somebody at the end who's GonNa come and eat your business if you think about monsters. Godzilla didn't kill Qinghong right. It wasn't another giant guy. It a bunch of little tiny planes who killed King Kong. Those are the startups. Those are the guys who were biting at your heels. Were all playing whack. A mole twenty four hours a day again startups. But they're also the place you can get the best ideas. I was with Chairman of American Express two years ago. He came out there twice a year just to do what they call. A Silicon Valley petting zoo. We saw lots and lots of startups and he said. American Express was founded. It was an express. Company was shipping freight on Railroads said. Now we're a financial powerhouse. I couldn't be next but we're not going to be a financial powerhouse where to change and I have to find that idea out here so as you suggest this is a great time to look at those technologies look at those business models and say wow one of these really could catch fire in my industry if I will take the impediments in my company out of the way that keep me from changing so many powerful ideas over here and that was a key message how can I take the impediments out of my company that keep me from changing now. What would be a message for you? People here who may not own the company but actually worked for the company. You can be innovative no matter what you do with the Department is. Hopefully you can suggest new ideas. I was one hundred year. Old Company. Asked me to speak invasion. Is that well? They're hundred years old. They gotta know somethings but actually their business model changed much and before the speech. I met someone at the reception and she said well. I've done something innovative in my department. I said what's that she said. I unlocked are adobe forms. So that as people apply for insurance they can type right into the computer and they don't have to print it out and write it by hand and send it into us where we can't read it now. I didn't want to tell her that the. Us Internal Revenue Service had done ten years earlier so it wasn't exactly cutting edge but it was cutting edge to them in. It's certainly was cutting edge to her. It was wonderful that she took it on herself in did that and was applauded for so in some companies. You can grasp the nettle and do those kinds of things and work within your team to be more innovative than the rest of the company and so companies. It's harder you've gotta find ways sometimes to get around the Naysayer and that's not always easy because there are a lot of people who will say well. It'd be play devil's advocate for just a moment here with any new idea the pinball machine but if you keep moving and keep thinking of new things many times you can be heard and look at your own department and say how could we change. What could we do with new technology or a new business model? Just a new idea that you could apply yourself so that others look at you and say hey. This is good. This is innovative. We like this. This is great and this is also a great way to actually stay at work. I mean I believe in good companies bosses and CEO's really value the people who come up with ideas they do but they don't always. I've talked to people who say you know? I tried for ten years and I said well if you want to be an innovator a sprinter you'd better move somewhere else. He can't fight city hall but in many companies. Yes they do value it and they've just got the bozon layer between them. And you. So you have to raise your hand and be heard a little bit disruptive that happens all the time has happened forever. It's never easy to come up with something new but now we have these incredible technologies that you may find. You have an idea for that. No one else in your industry. Has that solves a real problem. I was in Iceland recently. Speaking for the US Department of State. And I was touring around the driver. Said you see this cow. Barn the milk caramel in a bar. And I well I seen those before. Said no look at this. We walked in. There wasn't a prison around. The cows came in. They were immediately. Robotically hooked up to a milk machine while having a little snack. Cow's milk and the happy cow walked back outside. No one around and you might say well. That's terrible it's replacing people. That did that job the promise. They can't hire people to do that. Work Anymore nobody wants to get up at five. Am TO MILK A COW. That is more people want to do. And guess what the cows actually produce more mill. Some took a look at this and said Hey. We're having a problem. Hiring people see have to look at what is the trend. That's happening in my industry. In this case it's I can't get people and say I could apply technology to that and solve the problem in a whole new way beautiful. I love how you think. Okay now for people who want to go further in your work. I know you have to books out disruption off and on innovation. Okay so that's destruction often on innovation. Can you tell us about both books? So we know where to get started disruption off really is about avoiding being disrupted so he talks about ten new technologies five new business models and then this concept about owning the edge and then it goes through a number of things you can do to avoid being disrupted and we've talked to some of them. Risky business takes them all risk. Fearlessness fixed the ADS. So you experiment. A measure. Walzing the Roach Motel. I call it which is killing the silos. And there's many more of those now on innovation really goes much farther on the innovation side. Less of the. What's going to come and kill you more? What can you do in the two pillars? There that are most important. Our culture team. We've talked a bit about culture already. But if you build the right culture and you build the right team you put the pillars in place for innovation in the culture is one we talked about of risk of experimentation of change and then the team has to be made up of people. Who Actually WanNa do that looking for a players who WanNa make experiments who want to change and then it talks about. How do I select the best idea how to select the business model? That goes around it. How do I build a business? That's continuously innovate. So it goes much deeper in the topic of innovation because a lot of people don't even know the definition the definition of innovation. I like is that creativity is thinking up. New Things. Innovation is doing them. It's putting ideas to work on the holder of five patents but not one of them is an innovation because my company didn't turn any of them into a product. They don't count. Innovations are ideas that you put the work that actually make money or save money or change your company on innovation is about putting ideas to work and it will give you lots of examples about how to do just that limit terry so thank you so much and thanks for being a guest on Mind Valley podcast now for those of you who are listening. Go to Amazon and search for Terry Jones. Keep in mind that the two different Terry Jones. The other one is to comedian famous. Full Monty Python. So you can find. Terry's books by googling disruption off on innovation if you don't find it at the would terry disruption of Terry on Terry I am currently reading disruption off. It is a phenomenal book. And it's the kind of book that just lights a fire on your but after reading that book. I can't wait to get to work just so I can apply some of the strategies learned and this is why I so WanNa Terry to be a guest on the mind. Bobby podcast. So thank you so much terry. Well thank you. I hope everybody stays safe. And take this time to reflect about coming out of this terrible disruption. What can you change my business and move faster than ever did before? Amazing thank you so much terry and that set for those of you listening go ahead and liberal view in your review mentioned Terry Jones. If you enjoy this episode and I'll see you next week on the mind body podcast stay safe. Stay positive and we're here for you. Ambitionless Kiani and this is the Mind Valley podcasts.