What this year could mean for the Blue Jays (Ep. 68)
Away a bow as away Tom. Hello and welcome to episode sixty eight of section one thirty eight. I'm your host Mark Kelly as always I'm joined by pricing and Jacob. How're you guys? I'm doing good how are you? I'm doing well Woodville you Jacob. I am doing great and happy to continue this ironman streak on the podcast ossified. Yes and it's coming in clutch behind the scenes today But we've talked a lot about recently about Major League Baseball in general and how you know all the news. We've been hearing from them but we haven't really been talking a lot about the blue jays which is weird because of course. We are blue podcasts. So today we decided to just only talk about the Blue Jays regardless of the other news that we're hearing around Major League Baseball so today I guess the main question that we're going to try to answer is how will the way this season is played or if it's even played at all affect the blue jays whether it comes to you know they're competitive schedule for years to come whether it's Service time whether it's draft stuff like that so I guess we can start things off with the very easy question of will the Blue Jays. Make the postseason this year if there is a season because we've seen lots of ideas about the postseason being expanded. Looks like it's going to be expanded from ten teams to fourteen teams so gives a blue jays a little bit more of a shot as well with the divisional realignment that could potentially help the Blue Jays. So do you guys think the Blue Jays will make the postseason this year? I definitely think they have a better chance to do it. And that supports my point for months ago. You guys probably don't even remember and I didn't even remember until I really thought about it around. January February thought is well that the Jays have definitely a better chance of competing for a while spot. And I've been supporting that ever since even the mookie. Betts straight out of out of Boston. So I think that Regardless even even regardless of the mookie Betts trade the Jays you know they're supposed to be taking a step forward this year We still don't really know how good they'll be. But you know based on how this rebuilds Been going the past two years of been slightly better other than record. I'm talking about the product. We've been seeing on the field. And we know that the core that they have already developing at the major league level you know based off of playing time they will get better and we'd we haven't even seen the best of Lyon grow junior yet. So that's something that Would definitely is on my mind for a breakout season. If there's a season and I went through the I was looking at. You know where the would set and then. I stopped myself because I remembered that if there's a season I should also be looking at the Anatoly so thank God I did. That did research on that in my homework on that. And if you look at the actual so-called M. O. OB East which will be combined ten teams. The James are right in. There are at least in the middle of the pack compared to the the top teams in there. So the top teams. I guess you would look at probably the best team in this division would probably be the the the New York Yankees The New York mets. We know that there question mark as well as the phillies. They're supposed to be good this year off of projections but they've been an average team for the past couple of years. The phillies made a big acquisition. Was Zach Wheeler and the mets actually lost Noah syndergaard for the season due to Tommy. John and I've spoken about the red sox. The orioles are a complete tire. Fire The Washington nationals. You can give them credit because we're the defending champs. Even though they lost one of their best players Anthony Rundown the pirates are also you know in a rebuilding phase The marlins complete tire fire and if even fans are allowed to games From marlins games that would definitely be considered social distancing. So go ahead and do that and the rays are supposed to be. I guess we're supposed to be the second best team nail east and other while contender team so if you take if you put the Jays in that division with all these other teams they definitely have a shot and I can't you know I I would definitely disagree if you ruled out their chances and I do think even that the biggest advantage they have is the expanded postseason. I don't know how would work. I don't know how many teams from each division maker depends on who wins the division. I don't know how that works by. Mathematically definitely a better shot and I do think that they can keep up with some of these teams in the east barring anything that changes with injuries or anything else like that with a healthy team. I think that this team could definitely take a step forward. I'm not saying they're going to be near the top of the East with the Yankees which is unrealistic for me for the next couple of years at least but I do think that they can keep up with some of these other teams. Yeah I honestly I think they have a pretty good chance of making the play. I don't know if even really guarantee it but you cannot rule them out like he just said. I think this season one hundred and sixty two games is not realistic. Even if you WANNA throw in doubleheaders every once in a while Which I think honestly working the blue jays favor because if they were to get off to a good start for you know a month or a certain number of games that would be more impactful on a shortened season where the amount of games are the. You're not you're not playing. As many games. He usually are so one game could be worth slightly more and I think when you look back to the two thousand eighteen team obviously completely different in terms of structure compared to this year's team but they were over five hundred until the middle of May which I believe played. They played forty two games until that point. Which you know. I'm not saying anything that is going to happen. However if something happened where around five hundred or they're you know staying above water than you know if that lasts for a couple of weeks or a month or a little bit more than that I think will influence our increase. Their chances of making the playoffs. Because like I said if you're only playing one hundred and thirty five games or slightly lesser whatever they choose you know winning You know having a good start to the season would greatly impact their chances because each game would be worth more. I think that would honestly benefit them. Yeah I totally agree. Obviously if you just look at it mathematically you have a lot better shot when there's fourteen teams said ten teams. Although we don't know the specifics of how the bracketing will work. We don't know if it's going to be you know wildcard style for the extra two teams from each division. Or I guess there's not even National League and American League so we really have no idea how things will shape up. As far as bracketing goes but just mathematically helps a blue jays bottom line. I don't think they will make the postseason We were talking about on this podcast course before. The season was canceled of our projections for this year. And I think I said one. Eighty one was my guess. Perhaps a little bit worse than that And if you're looking at fourteen teams if you assume that a five hundred record is fifteenth. Best Team And I think that the Blue Jays might be a little bit worse than that They could end up not making the postseason so that would be my final guests on that but of course so much is up in the air and really every team in the situation. has the ability to make the postseason. Just because have out crazy stuff is right now. I guess we can move on to our next question because that one were pretty much all in agreement on. This one's a little bit more interesting and we touched on it last week. Major League Baseball in the Commissioner Rob Manfred have said that players will have the chance to opt out of playing this season if there is a season to be played Because they whatever for whatever reasons might not be comfortable with playing. Whether it's health reasons say are upset about the amount of money. They're going to be getting so knowing that there's a conversation to be had about whether any blue jay players will opt out of playing this season and which blue jay players it might be who don't want to play so. I don't know if you guys have any ideas of who you think might opt out this season but I have a few in mind when it comes to the Jason this topic about the know the opportunity potentially to opt out. We haven't really heard much about from them specifically. I know that I've seen or heard Dan. Jansen do a few interviews and he's been He actually stayed back. He didn't go back to Chicago. He stayed with few teammates down in Florida. And I know that re- you also stayed back. He didn't go back to create. He stayed back in. We're staying Russell Martin House in Florida Who IN In where they were both teammates last year. So other than those two. I haven't really heard much I. Nobody was in that. Mlb Twenty Tournament Players Tournament and he said Multiple Times. I you know he's dying. Plays Diana's play and other than that you know if we go across other teams we we. We spoke Blake's now last week and also Bryce Harper. And then I mentioned Sean doolittle complaining about or not complaining but just outlining health protocols that would in place but when it comes to Blake Celebrates Harper they were against it just because of the financial problems between the Union and the League. But there's still a bunch of players that we don't know Who would potentially set out in specifically on the days. I really had no idea. I'd love to hear who your idea. You know your idea for who would but other than that. I don't WanNa make any assumptions. Just because I don't know and this is definitely something that will be addressed because I do think there's a bunch of players on I would say definitely over half of her maybe seventy five percent of the teams who don't feel safe going to play whether if it's about money or whether if it's about Safety Protocols so other than that I haven't really heard much about it. I don't know anything really about it. It's kind of something that's up in the air and something that I don't really want to get on just because it definitely is a serious situation just because of how deadly this viruses and how unsafe it could be a proper measures put in place But other than that other than that. I'm under the Assumption. That you know players are ready to play Whenever or if there's a green light but yeah definitely love to hear y you think are you know who on the Jay's with potentially opt out just because I haven't heard much about the I dunno I personally think that like you said it is up in the air and you know you didn't WanNa make assumptions but I think for me? I was thinking about it last night and when I look at how young this bluejays team is. I think that a lot of them are eager to play. And if there are the proper protocols put in place I again. This is just me guessing but I do kind of have a feeling that a lot of the younger guys. As part of their core like a Vlad Guerrero shed be Geo. All those types of guys think they would be more eager to play because Like Bush said he's he's dying to play he he wants more major league experience and I think opting out you know. They could improve on their abilities at home or at some type of gym once. They opener however they work out a during the off season but I do kind of have a feeling that a lot of these guys will play just because you know if it's safe to do so for swap they will WanNa play because this is major league experience for them and you know you can't go to a batting cage for an entire year and get the same or improve the same way you would compare to play against major league players especially with the different pitchers they can throw interest. It's a different experience altogether and I just I just. I see their core wanting to play as long as it's healthy and if somebody does want opt out then no hard feelings are not you know against that I just I do think that they wanNA play. However I think we talked about it last week where somebody mentioned the taxi squads where there's no minor league teams and you know you just have a few players that can just follow the team in case of an injury. I and I do think that those types of guys could opt out because they say well. I'm just you know following the team for a chance to play Obviously you know injuries happen things like that and especially with these circumstances. A lot of different things could happen to projected starting players. But I think a lot of guys on the roster that we're expecting to can come up and down throughout the miners extra feels like Anthony Alford would potentially opt out just because you know for them. What's the point of playing? Or what's the point of being a part of the team for a chance to play you know? And if they're not on the team on the major league team at least then you know there's just no point for them to spend their time going through all the city's going through all the major league things at the players normally do just to not play Doh to good point. The taxi squads are pretty much just all of the risk and none of the reward of actually playing so But as far as you guys said I think it is easy to kind of point out the guys that we think would actually player. We pretty much know wouldn't opt out. I think Imagine Boba Chat Danny Janssen that some of these younger guys who do have something to prove and are really itching to play after just playing last season I think those are guys that we can pretty much be certain that they would not opt out. You mentioned Hyun Jin Ryu Still in Florida. I think that's another guy. We can be pretty sure won't vote. He's in Florida right now. along those lines of international players with Jin Ryu I think soon Yamaguchi who I believe right now is in Japan. I think he went back to Japan and he's still hasn't played a major league game because he just came over from Japan This off season signing with the Blue Jays. I think he's one of the guys that may opt out just because you know. He is unfamiliar with being in the US. Obviously things are a lot safer right now in Japan And this would have been his first year coming over to the US slash Canada so He's one guy you haven't mind as someone who might opt out. Another guy is some of the guys with young families. Either kids or wives Laura's correal junior. He has a kid I believe is almost four months. Now The cutest kid ever if you see him on Instagram But he's a guy who I think may opt out just because of that family side of things tasker Hernandez I think His partner also recently had a kid So that might be another consideration for Tae Oskar Hernandez Ultimately I think it comes down to what your personal life is the what you have to prove in the majors and if you're itching to prove something And I think those two considerations will largely guide a lot of these thoughts and some of the older guys on the roster. You know whether it's some. The pitchers Chase Anderson ten or some of the guys who you know are well off and just came over to the Blue Jays. So they don't really have a connection to the team. I think those are some of the guys who may opt out as well and of course if these players do opt out it hurts the Blue Jays this season but you have to imagine other players and other teams are also going to be opting out. So I don't know how much of a consideration that can be when we think about how competitive the Blue Jays will be this season absolutely and this is again. You mentioned right at the end. This is something that every single team will be dealing with and it's it's pretty relatable to injuries although that injuries can happen at different times of the year or the amount of injuries but this could be something consistent with every other team from start to finish in you know. I want to reiterate back to the point last week. And I fully on board with people who don't feel safe going Reporting camps or playing the season I just. I think that if they don't report I still believe that they shouldn't be allowed to play at all for the rest of the season and mark. Like you said you know. Players like Gurriel are tasker Hernandez you know. Those are pretty big pieces to the team so rather than you know them sitting. That's a huge huge loss for the Jays in particular their young team as well with some veterans by you know if plane time open for guerilla Hernandez based off the way the teams belt. We know the teams high on both those players. So those are major holes to fill if they don't play so hopefully them herb depending on how how the front office will be able to coordinate everything it's going to be. It's a really really. It's it's an uncertain situation. It's a good point. Jacob never really thought about it. Which was the taxi squads? You know. We don't even know like how that's even work. We we know that it'll be upwards. I think it was twenty to thirty players We don't know if they're GONNA be at team facilities we don't know like. I really have no idea how that will work other than they're on standby in case someone you know. God forbid gets infected with Cove nineteen or just get has an injury and another thing to look at in my opinion as well as players here who are entering final years their contracts. I think that's something that has to be considered other than family just because it's their future in the game of baseball and I just looked at Chase Anderson He is a club option for two thousand and twenty one so you know the implications of him not shown up this year to play It's definitely a risk because you know one. He won't be pitching in to. How confident are the J.'s? GonNa be and Chase Anderson next year with other. You know other pieces. Moving up the minor league system. I know we're GONNA touch on a bit later but nate Pearson's One You know how. How safe will chase Henderson's security? Be With the team if you decide to settle for a whole season so that's definitely another thing to look at but you know it comes down to a matter of personal opinion. No one's going to agree based off of how safe these health measures are Based off of what we know the Union did respond to some of the protocols. Put in place I know that they were against the fact that they can't you showers just because they wanna use showers or other things in the facility to help A re-energize or things like that but everyone has different opinions Based on what they think is safe or not in the comes down to a matter of. Are you willing to show up and play baseball? And if they don't I still think they shouldn't show up but again it's it really isn't anything personal by On the baseball side of it. It's a major major loss For the team. Can you imagine? Let's say somebody on the Jays even really let's just say he decides to set out and somehow the Jays or as we kind of predicted they have a better chance of making the playoffs through down the postseason stretch or a playoff run heading into September. You can you imagine the loss like as we go deeper into the season without him in the rotation and again guerilla Hernandez those are starters on this team. So it's their major holes to fill major losses for teams but the one thing as everyone everyone will be dealing with it at the same time. Which is why. It's a little bit different than an actual injury brings in a lot of interesting considerations because obviously there's a roster freeze right now but we'd been hurt hearing like like way back when this all started like our teams can be trading for players who have had covid nineteen because they're gonNA have antibodies. I think there's a similar conversation to be had here about whether teams are going to be trading for players that they know are not going to opt out of the season so that they can have their chips in place and know what's happening in terms of their roster so it's definitely crazy that we're even talking about players just you know deciding to sit out a season but it does have a lot of ramifications and you brought up service time. We don't know how service time will really work with this opting out feature. We don't know anything about you but kind of leads into our next conversation about what happens if there isn't a season this year you know. We heard originally when the agreement between the Players Association and the owners was said in late. March that if there wasn't a season players we get the same amount of service time that they had in twenty nineteen. So you know if you were on the roster for one hundred days in two thousand nineteen would get one hundred days of service time for Twenty Twenty Now that has ramifications In terms of service time for the Blue Jays which player hurts the Blue Jays? The most In terms of service time. You know whether it's I don't know a guy like review of course the Blue Jays signing into a big deal if they lose a year of service time but still have to pay him. You know a some money. Well how does that impact the Blue Jays in their plans for the future? So what do you guys think is a player that impacts the Blue Jays? The most in this discussion of losing service time when it comes to review you know he based off of what he added. Twenty nineteen? It's a year loss like you said so Jason and over four year. Deal next thing you know you had him for one year as signed to a contract you never got anything out of him on the field so in other words you lose a whole season of paying you know a view on the team and you're paying him for pretty much nothing because of this pandemic and it's other than review you know there's not really much service time on the like. I mean if you look at players who veterans are part of the team. Someone like Ken Giles. Who is supposed to be free agent agents upcoming winter and Chase Anderson said. He's he has a club option. But you know part of the younger players. I don't think that they really hurt as much in terms of what I should say. The team benefits from it. But you know the players themselves especially people who are developing through the minor league system. You know it's definitely a loss for them just because you know first of all. There's there's they're staying with the team for an extra year and they're losing complete development time someone that comes to mind mark. You recently interviewed Kevin Smith. He's someone who's still not ready for the major leagues but he's still continuing to develop in the minor leagues you know. How do these players react to a whole year off and we know taxi squads? You're not really playing many games but other than that. It's it's hard to say because you know Nate Pearson comes to mind as well. We know he was close. We don't know how close we don't even know even if there is a season this year. I doubt he's on the team. I don't even know if he would be on the taxi squad. It's just so much question marks but you know it's in certain for certain players the team benefits more and for certain players. The team loses in the player benefits for you know it stays the same status quo for the players. Soon example would be Rio but for these other young guys. I think the benefit for sure because this is an or you know a front office who said many times based off of trades and signings that they are trading at signing these players for service time so I think that's beneficial to them to hold onto these players for another year who they didn't get any service time of and based off the previous season you know. They didn't have much service time to begin with so I think that benefits the team but it also it benefits. There's pros and cons. So it's it's hard to say but renewed in my mind would be the biggest loss for this year. Only three years out of a now and you know he's. I think he's in. He's in his mid thirty so he's going to be one year older next year. You don't know what you're going to get out of them at all because you know based off of these predictions are. There's really no predictions that you can make out of because people have been sitting on the coaches for two months or training but not allowed the team facilities and so on and so on so. It's definitely a lot of pros and cons but a lot of uncertainty but really would be my biggest loss If I'm the Blue Jays have to agree with you on the review part of it because you know he. He signed four year. Eighty million dollar contract so to spend twenty million dollars this year. You know if you want to divide it up to spend that amount of money and not have him play not. Have anybody play really. That's a huge loss. Because I think the biggest thing you said is people are getting older. So all these young guys. Maybe it won't impact them that much but a guy like Ryu. Who's you know getting close to not close to retirement? But he's he's aging is definitely not you know closer to his debut was retirement so you you're losing time where he could play. Well I think another incident here you just while I'm on the topic of the aging Nate Pearson is going to be. He's twenty three right now. I believe his birthday is in August. So you know if you losing a year on him. Maybe like won't be as drastic but that's still a year lost where you know. He's he's older so you know even if he wasn't to make it to the major leagues this year. There's still time lost because he is not able to go to the minor league systems and train. Your he Workout at home or something. But he just you lose some time where that could be used for training and these guys just sit at home and it just. It's tough for them. And I mean you guys were talking about were you think re was obviously a big loss but in the end they still have him for three more years which is good. We're going to be talking about this later on but it's still lines up with you know. They're competitive window so I don't think that hurts him as much as some other guys. You mentioned Ken Giles. He's GonNa be a free agent after this year. Matt Shoemaker is another guy is a free agent and Travis. Shaw is a free agent Show on the biggest losses because he was horrible last year. He's trying to rebound this year. But not a big deal. The Blue Jays get nothing from him but in terms of a guy like Giles Blue Jays were looking to flip him for someone at the trade deadline or perhaps extend him because we saw talk it just this past week though. Giles saying that he wanted to stay with the Blue Jays so perhaps bluejays considering extending but I think in all likelihood they if this season play don't normally they would have traded him at the trade deadline so they kind of don't get that asset and don't get the prospects that they would if there was a season which is disappointing from that regarding the same thing for Matt Shoemaker. I think he's a guy that the blue jays were also looking to flip after this partway through this season. If he performed in stayed healthy after he struggled with health last year he was a guy that the blue jays were looking to turn into prospects for the next few years down the line and I think that's going to hurt the Blue Jays in the fact that if there isn't a season they aren't able to turn those few guys into future prospects but I think Jacob what you said the biggest loss and all of this is coming just the development of these players whether it's you know all the way through the Blue Jays organization from low to AAA or whether it's in the majors with young guys Guerrero. The shet be Geo Johnson. Maguire guys like that. That won't have the chance to develop in the majors this season and will kind of be set back a little bit because they don't have access to the trainers they don't have access to you. Know in game raps and I think that's probably the biggest loss that will see this season When it comes to those people in the minor leagues who are developing like you said. It's a complete loss But in terms of the other players at the major league level you know it's it's a loss but at the same time they're still developing in a certain way just because if there is a season we know that you know players like Youtube. Shutting grow will be on the team. Barring any injuries though beginning many as they. Can you know? Obviously that it'll be the season's likely to be cut in half eighty two games. So they're gonNA get half of what they were supposed to get but you know it's it's benefit a bit but you know it's it's not a complete for them and for team like James who are rebuilding and trying to develop Oliver the Minor Leagues Right the Major League level. You know this probably put this could put a small halt on them like this could slow them down a bit. I don't expect it to slow them. Expect us a Solan down for an entire calendar year but it definitely puts some halt on player development and other things like that even with Matt Shoemaker other than the Jays trying to trade 'em himself you shrenik get back on a you know. He's trying to avoid injuries. He's been a injury-plagued pitchers whole career. He had a great start last year. A couple starts. He had with the Jays before he tore his ACL in Oakland. He's someone I was very high on in terms of a good rotation peace. Who knows if the JAYS would have ended up flipping him? It's likely it would have happened. Based on where the Jays were a year ago but fast forward to this year with this pandemic the Jays all the sudden you know could possibly be competing and who knows how serious they'll take it but if they do take it seriously you have to imagine that you know these are players that you might want to hold onto. Who knows and Jacob even said last week. You didn't even know or you you were in favor of banning trades here because I brought up the idea of what happens when you make a trade off the quarantine and all of that and then when it comes to Ken Giles. He someone I'd like to see stick around and he I know he doesn't WanNa stick around and that's definitely rare to see someone on a Toronto team. WanNa stick around so I think it's something that you gotTa consider now wall where you are this year you know. You need a closer base off of other than Ken Giles. The bullpen is pretty much. All they're they're all on one year deals in it's not a very strong bullpen. So you know Kendra is someone who's always help to close games. He had a spectacular year last year. And he's definitely somebody that I would think that. Are I think the Jason Look into extending again this? The season is a completely different from last season and the Jays might look at it differently as well this year because they have a better chance at going four playoff spot so who knows what will happen but lots of. It's it's different for all these players in terms of who wins and who loses based off of you know if it's development service time even just person you know their personal role with the team and the way the team team or the way the as look at themselves going into the next few years. Can I just say I put this my thing on my instagram account With a the Ken Giles situation. If the Blue Jays are to let him go and buy let him I mean he doesn't resign. Honestly I think that would be a bit of a waste of the OSUNA trade because I'm not going to get into the personal side of that. I thought he was great pitcher. I'm happy to have giles. Now I think if they were to lose him. That would probably be one of the biggest mistakes of this year. I don't WanNa get into a soon again. Of course I'm very happy. They made that trade but yeah Giles. I'm happy that he's a guy who wants to stick around and I'm happy that of course he's a amazing patron completely dominant out of the bullpen. In pretty much the only good arm they have of the bullpen. With the exception of maybe maybe Jordan Romano was he is even playing into the bullpen calculus. This season yeah I I wanna see him stick around. I would love for the Blue Jays to extend it but I also understand if they're trying to flip him and get something out of him this year but of course that's all null and void unless there is a season this year so I guess we can move on to another topic of if there isn't a season this year. When will the BLUEJAYS compete? I think in my mind at least the timeline has always been sent. You know two thousand seventeen. When they started the rebuild. It's been you know rebuild. Twenty Seventeen two thousand eighteen nineteen twenty twenty. Get a little bit more competitive. Has Around five hundred twenty. Twenty one get really competitive. Fight for a playoff spot. Twenty twenty to get into the playoffs and then twenty twenty three. Take it all the way. That's kind of always been the timeline inside my mind for the past few years. But I'm wondering if that's now kind of changed because if there isn't a season this year of course all these players are going to be set back in development. Are they still set up to win or go all the way in twenty twenty three or is it kind of pushed back to twenty twenty four or beyond? Yeah this this is something that comes with a lot of uncertainty and you know the fact is we don't know what the future holds for this team in terms of how close they are but you have to imagine the the logical answer is definitely be behind a bit but I don't think they're gonNA behind the be behind a whole lot. I you know like you said Mark. There are a few years away from actual competing based off of their original timeline. And the one thing I want to take notice is even. Let's just say the Jays Miss Barely missed the playoffs. This you're getting you know. They're not they don't have a spectacular record a bit over five hundred. This is best case scenario. Who knows even if the front office takes that seriously because if you really look at it you're playing season and if you go into two thousand and twenty one year assuming that while we're going to have a regular one hundred sixty two game schedule again and who knows if the Seriously you know what if they think it was You know twenty twenty which A different era year that hopefully we never experienced again but at the same time this team played half of what was supposed to happen and we still really don't know if they're ready for that point of taking that next step so. I think that's the biggest problem that will affect them. I guess you know in terms of that you have to make a judgment call you have to go with your gut and and you have to see what they look like this year with half of a season and if they look good it's not even a guarantee that the Jays will move forward next year. Who knows maybe they stay pup and like you said Marker Jacob Maybe they look in trading. Some of these guys again can giles They definitely won't let them walk for nothing if they they'll have a sense of he's GonNa stay stick around or not based off of Phil Trimmer. Extend Him. So I think that's okay. I think they're okay with that part. I think the one thing you know as much as Ross Atkinson Will get a lot of heat or they've gotten a lot of crime. They've gotten a lot of hate the past couple of years. The one thing I give him credit for as they flip players before you know they they don't ever lose players for nothing so that's a good thing in terms of trusting them with that situation. I maybe they want him to stick around who knows but there has to be season for that to be determined but the one thing that bothers me or concerns me if this team could take the next step or third behind based off their time competing mark is. How serious will the front office take this season if even if they do good or bad because you know as fans at home are all cheering for them potentially making the playoffs? You know it's it's half of a season so that's why it's completely different. And that's why I think the for novice can look completely differently. You know it was definitely a good step forward in terms of development. But we're not going to rush things and we're GONNA take our time and if that means pushing our competitive time linebacker a half year or full year than I think. I think they'll have no hesitations to do that. But the one thing you have to remember is You know you have players like review. Who signed for four years you? You're losing a you know you're losing half a season of them and there's other players here who are free agents in terms of veterans. You know in your starting rotation or even your bullpen. Who are all on one year deals pretty much including congeals? Who's your best bullpen piece? That's the one thing that concerns me if this team would ever take the next up. It's it's really based off of what Shapiro and Atkins Sink. And we don't know what they think. And we don't know how interpretive and we don't even know how good the Jays will be so. That's that's the only thing I'm concerned about see. I feel like if there is not a season than the Blue Jays might actually be in one of the worst positions in the League. Just because how young everybody is and you know especially you mentioned with open you know you. You can't just lose. You know everybody. You are sign people but what I look. How competitive they are. I think that will like I said Yeah. Push back because I mentioned earlier players working out at home or doing something you know not in a team setting. They're able to slightly improved themselves. But you know hitting batting cage cannot mask you know. A Major League Kerr baller slider for an entire year eventually. They're going to have to play against actual teams and players. That are trying as hard as they can to get them out because that will help improve them But you know. I look at a guy like Sanchez where I think it was after. I think it was just before two thousand seventeen like the two thousand sixteen off season he gained it was close to twenty pounds of muscling was like sixteen pounds a key. He really worked on himself to him. Buff and improve obviously didn't necessarily work from that year. But you know if you know we talked about. Guerrero talked about how he was trying to improve his physical state I think that's something that he could do. He can prove himself. You know a lot of other players can work on personal improvements. Whether it's you know Working out gaining muscle losing excess waving like that they can you know get themselves to be more physically fit for however I think it will still be a big adjustment to go from not playing baseball in a competitive setting to then just going back to it after taking extended break The I think in terms of development they might get the the bad end of the stick for the with this one. Yeah I think that's a really good point. The Blue Jays are in a tougher situation than a lot of other teams because they are so young. They don't have the luxury of having you know players like let's say Josh Donaldson or Robinson casino or you know players who have been in the majors for years upon years and I don't think missing season for them is as big a deal if you're entering your second major league season so the Blue Jays suffered by the fact that they have these guys who are still developing and need that playing time to be be able to figure things out and they won't be getting that because of it so it's harder for them to stick to their competitive scheduled than it is for more veteran oriented team. But as you said it's not like this time if they don't play the season like everything is just lost. It does give time for the players to work on themselves. It gives time for all of us to work on ourselves. I mean I've been jogging a bunch in quarantine in like it's just a chance without a lot of other excess stuff that we do in life to focus on things that we want to improve on so I think that stands true for a lot of players. I'm just worried it's it's not the same. As if they were getting a full year of service time and getting all day experience in the majors we have talked a lot today about the bullpen. And I think that's something we want to center on because I think I am to a large extent. It's like the final key to the Blue Jays competing. They do still have lesser problems in the outfield in the starting rotation but to a large extent. I think that's the main problem with the Blue Jays right now and they have guys coming up in the organization. They have a lot of starters in the organization whether it's Takeaway Packing Anthony K Sean Reid Foley Nate Pearson. I think some of these guys are going to have to move to the bullpen. But that really is the place where the Blue Jays are going to succeed or fail in my mind over the next few years so how that's affected by you know if there's a season or not and if the Blue Jays will compete I'm not sure but it does transition us into our next topic And one of her lasts for today. Which is Nate Pearson? We've touched on it a little bit but obviously so much hype around this guy one of the best prospects in all of baseball and pretty much. Everyone expected that he would be coming up. This season towards the end of April may just to game out his service time in the majors. And obviously that's not happening right now. But what do you think is going to happen with his service time? What's happening with his development and Wendy? You think the Blue Jays will be calling him up. Because I think Nate Pearson is one of the final pieces of this team One of the final cornerstones that will lead to the Blue Jays. Success in the future. So when do you think he's going to be coming up? Because it has large ripple effects down the line for when the BLUEJAYS COMPETE. Yeah Nate Pearson is one of the players that are most affected by this in my opinion. And when you look at it you know. He probably is the final piece You know discovered last year their core around the line the actual batting word Gurriel Guerrero Bouchette BG. Oh and so. Many other young pieces Janssen Maguire. But when you look at the starting rotation it was always kind of a question mark and we knew Pearson was Gonna be that outward. Hopefully that future ace in that rotation that the Jays actually homegrown so the the one thing with that is it's it's it's tough because I you know. I predicted late April. May I don't remember what you've directed it was probably the same time liner if not it was a little bit after probably closer to the summer and a lot of people predicted that as well but I don't like I don't see how he comes up this season I just you know. Maybe he takes him the the spring training so-called point Oh But you know it's only GonNa be for what two to three weeks because players need around three three weeks to get ready. And after that you know as he guaranteed to be on the so-called taxis wad because even if he is he still won't be pitching every five days completely off of a routine and same goes for all the other prospects in in the bluejays system the whole Minor League Baseball seasons in serious doubt in in serious questions. So that goes all the way down a Bluefield in rookie ball. So that's the one thing that concerns me and for next year you know. I guess you can consider him making the starting rotation. I still think that it's GonNa come down to that service time. Rule based off of a normal season. Where it's it's April fifteenth or something like that at some some sort of deadline date and then after that date. He's locked in for an extra an extra season and We saw that we've him grow junior and it was going to be the case this season as well with Pearson. If this pandemic did come so I think you know maybe that time line next year even maybe even a little bit further to May mayor June. Because you have to have consistently pitching every five days and the season's a complete will completely law season for prospects in minor leaguers and you know Nate Pearson just won't be experiencing that every day or sorry that every five days where you go out and pitch so I think that's something that's definitely affected by this and you know this definitely benefits. The Jason's like I mentioned earlier. Service time you know you got an ex you know. If you're the Jason. The season gets delayed. Like will be. If there's a season you're getting even more time with Pearson and why and why wouldn't you WanNa take that extra year of service time If you're Atkins are Mark Shapiro and if you look at the current rotation for the Jays Chase Anderson's auto club option like are mentioned earlier and we also said Matt shoemakers a free agent. You know. Maybe he's dealt for pieces or maybe they keep him around or maybe they lose them free agency but you have to imagine the jail make some depth signings but those are right right there. Those two holes in the rotation tenor work signed for another year after the season Ryan Barack also in running who knows where he's at you know people like Trent Thorton So it's it's it's it's a tough call because I don't see him again. The season but next season how how long will it take before you see 'em because I don't think it's going to be completely dealt like I don't think it'll be completely handled the way it's supposed to be based off of a regular season just because of this season alone. This is putting years development almost probably a full year at least of Nate Pearson. So I'm thinking sometime next year but depending on the offseason I guess you can consider him. Maybe making the opening day roster in two thousand and twenty one but knowing the J. Zo make depth signings or re signed some of these players to stay on the rotation but he is that final piece. I am will be on instagram. Posted a video a couple days ago of the Jay Young Bat so I was kind of completely by that. They really postponed the Jays but it was something about all the young pieces they had in the lineups and I went through all the comments. And you know if you're a fan from New York or wherever the heck you're from everyone was commenting just wait for a pearson. He's at he's at one final piece that they need. Wait wait until May Pearson comes up out that this team will be serious with Nate Pearson. This team's already good enough in terms of a young court without Nate Pearson in the major league. So he's the hype around the Skies Real and we may have to wait another year for this because I doubt we'll be seeing him in two thousand twenty and I doubt you know. He's even this so-called called taxi squad. Maybe I'M WRONG. And maybe it works out for him but I just don't see it happening until some point in two thousand and twenty one. Yeah unfortunately I think Nate Pearson is probably For lack of a better word screwed after by the season just because I don't I don't think they're gonNA put on a taxi squad because at throws about of a huge routine you know. He's who knows if he's even going to really be doing much besides just working out or doing that's GonNa work. I just don't think that's feasible for him But I think this year unfortunately well fortunately If there was no pandemic this would have been that. Yeary took the huge that next step where it was either making the majors or you know making that huge leap and development where he is unable to make the opening day roster or something starting early next season the obviously that cannot happen now so. I think you know as I touched upon earlier. I think this year might just have to be a year of him working on his personal fitness. You know getting himself as fit as he possibly. Can you know maybe you know? Keeping himself as as trained as well trained as he can just so that next year know he is able to make the opening day roster or make the team relatively early into the season just because this season he's not going to make the team this season just because he needs that development and just throwing him into a a major league season dot the best thing in my opinion and I don't think it makes sense to throw him on a taxi squad. Just follow the team for a chance to come up. That's just that's going to work. Also in my opinion for all the reasons that you guys just said it would be too inconsistent and I mean I talked about this way. Back on our podcast. I'm concerned about is health. Like I think his arm is obviously. It's great but he throws so fast he's had troubles with injuries. Before I am still concerned about injuries and throwing him into this season you know with not just the total inconsistencies of when you play and how you're playing but also things behind the scenes like their not allowing showers in the clubhouses of course that's up for discussion right now but other things like trainers and hot tubs and cold tubs. And all this different stuff behind the scenes that takes place to keep the players. Healthy is probably going to be going out the window for safety reasons. So you're not having any of that with a pitcher who has such a high potential but in my mind is already you know potentially subject to injuries. I don't want that kind of guy coming up in this type of uncertainty so I would from my perspective at least much rather just have them sit out this season and come back next year and again who knows how the service time. Calculus please next year but I. I don't see the Blue Jays taking the risk. I personally don't want the Blue Jays to take the risk this season with you know playing with fire in putting Pearson into the roster. Okay well we can move on to our final topic now. Which is on the draft We've heard a lot of talk about this. We've been told that it's going to be five rounds and I think right off the bat we can tell. This hurts Blue Jays a lot. Obviously it's hurting a lot of teams but the Blue Jays were drafting fifth overall. And that doesn't just mean drafting fifth overall. It also has implications for the amount of money they can spend so this hertzel the Blue Jays because this is the highest. They've drafted in a number of years if I'm not mistaken and it was looking to be a good opportunity for them but looks like they may be losing this down the line. So what do you guys think about the implications of this draft how it affects the The the the Toronto System and organization Beyond just you know this year but for years to come. It's a huge loss. And when you think about if I guess for every team to use last mark what you just mentioned their positioning on this year's draft is it's it's key because this is why are this is part of the benefits of rebuilding. Is THAT HIGH DRAFT PICK. You know. Hopefully a top ten pick. I think I think like you said they're picking one of the highest. They have in a long time. I don't I don't know the exact position there there. They're definitely a high pick and it goes for every in terms of every other team. You know this it simply comes down to the fact of scouting you won't you can't see scouting There's no major league baseball and you know in North America and there's no minor league baseball and there's no college you know there's none of that's going on right now and even if there was scouts. Were not probably wouldn't be allowed to go in anyway so in terms of this. You're almost it's kind of like you're drafting blind Ross. Atkins was asked voter like a few months ago when this all started and he did save you know. There's there's definitely doubt around drafting in terms of confidence in research by you know unlike or like every other. Gm they're confident that if they were able to pull it off They would. They would probably do the best they could. And there's no guarantee that anything would work out. Especially with the rounds being shortened to five rounds. This is probably one of the reasons. Why did it also to save money? There's a lot of financial details in terms of pool money that they can spend. I don't know the specifics by you. Know it's it's it's it puts the days in a position because with this unique draft this year. You know only being five rounds disease team Drafter long-term Draft for a short window in the next couple of years of puts everything at a huge huge question mark compared to you know what the plan was heading into the season before. This all started Do the like I said is something that you're looking at long-term how far down the road or do the J.'s. Kind of do go different this year and trying draft for the short term because there's five rounds does not a lot of research being done by any teams and they're getting a high pick so I I guess chances are they have their eyes set on a few people be just because of their positioning. Because you know a top ten pick or something like that you know definitely have a few players highlighted but at the end of the day. There's not a lot of research that is able to be done by scouting department's and quite frankly the players that they're looking at our even playing right now because of the so. It puts a lot of risk involved. How will these we spoken about? How the hell the young players in the minor league system in Toronto react to the how would people not even being drafted like a high school or even college? How would they react to this? You can only imagine that you know. They're they're losing even more because they're so young. They're not even on a professional team yet. They're not even signed a contract and they potentially could be sitting for a whole a whole year as well and these people are even younger than players in the minor leagues already with the Jase. So that's another thing to look at but you know in terms of the season and the draft. The jays are somewhat going in blind. I wouldn't say completely blind because you know that's why you have scouting department's. I'm sure they've been looking at all the stuff you know even some point last year so this is something that they've tried to prepare for early but it's something that's also thrown them completely off the game along with the twenty nine clubs. Yeah I think honestly this draft will hurt a lot of teams will every team especially the Blue Jays but I I think the toughest part is the fact that there's just a smaller amount of players that are able to get drafted and you know not saying every single pick is going to make it to the major leagues but if you play Go through regular draft. If all the normal rounds you have obviously your top picture. The ones that you're that you're looking at the most you know confident but it you know the mid to late draft teams have still drafted players out of actually ended up doing well for them when you look at a guy like Kevin Polar drafted in the thirty second run. I think it was like five hundred. Something he was. It was very late in the draft and he eventually was the starting center fielder from two thousand fifteen up until two thousand nineteen. He was a guy that everybody loved and he was a great defender. He was good for the Blue Jays and something like that cannot happen this year. I I shouldn't say can I? You know it's still still draft the guy that does well but you know you're not able to drag is you have the potential to develop and Turned into majorly talent. And I think that will hurt the blue jays because like I said you know when rebuilding you want to stock up on picks whether to use them for deadline deals or you want to organically developed them in have them be a part of your team. Just you lose a huge aspect of the rebuilding process and I think for this year. You know I'm not saying one year of a small draft is GonNa make or break them but it can hurt them in a couple years if they're trying to you know buy at the deadline and they're unable to give away to a a large number of picks just because they don't have as many high rated pixes they would've normally had and another guy that comes to mind is Mark Burleigh. He was drafted in the thirty eighth round by the Chicago. White Sox obviously came up to the majors ended up being a totally lights out. Pitcher in the majors throwing two hundred innings for what was it like fifteen consecutive years one of the best pitchers of our age and he was drafted in the thirtieth round and he would go undrafted in a situation like this so lots of talent is being left off the table but I should note that you know we kind of were looking at the Manusha in all of this and you know years down the road we might not really see the impact. Several we might not think of it the impacts will be there but even though we are all doom and gloom right now there's. I'm not sure how much of this is going to be noticeable years down the line. It's probably just going to be a thing that you know. Some players went undrafted that would have become stars but I don't know if we're actually can be able to notice that in the majors I should note that the Blue Jays can kind of game the system out after this. If a player is undrafted the Blue Jays can sign the player for twenty thousand dollars. I think it is as an undrafted free agent. Of course all teams can do this but it provides a potential to find players diamonds in the rough that went undrafted. And maybe you can convince into if you're drafting them out of high school to not go to university if you're drafting them out of university to come to your team instead of waiting another year and another consideration in this is the fact that the Blue Jays our next year probably going to have a worse position in the draft. They do a lot better And who knows how. The the draft positioning will be figured out next year but assuming it's just based on their record they'll have a lot worse positioning. They'll probably be ten fifteenth maybe overall and that means that when there is lots of talent that's kind of held over from this year into next year they're going to have a worse positioning so it's going to hurt them next year and then just looking way down the line into twenty twenty four and twenty five when these prospects would actually be making it to the major. That's when the Blue Jays are probably looking for the next wave of talent in the majors to continue Hopefully doing well In the majors so it does ever medications down the line Just because of how they're situated this season maiming. Not Getting the talent that they want and I just WanNa bring up the specific stat. The last time that the Blue Jays drafted fifth overall or earlier was nineteen ninety seven when they drafted Vernon Wells. Of course everyone familiar with his name out of a Bowie high school in Arlington Texas. I was fifth overall in a few years before that they Drafted Billy Koch in. Nineteen ninety-six Fourth overall but yeah it's been a while since bluejays were in this good of a positioning and it really sucks that it's GonNa end up this way with not getting whole that they could have out of their draft picks it definitely will and when it comes to a diamond in the rough. You know we see this all the time it all sports in other than that you in terms of people who won't get drafted in who will be signed just because of the shorten rounds. That will happen this year. You know you hope that the Jays can find that you know that one player and we know that the Jays put so much time or the front office has been so much time in putting together a good scouting team but something that they've been fond of and it's something that you know as a rebuilding team you need to have a great Great Scouting Department. And you know you hope that you hope that's the case. I'm sure they have. Multiple players circled on their draft boards. And you know if they don't drop them in the first five rounds you hope that they don't get drafted at all. You can try and convince them to sign team so Definitely does put them at a chance to take some wins in terms of who you can potentially sign in. You know looking back when mark on who you said on. The latest draft picks Nineteen ninety-seven like you said. The last time they picked fifth overall furnace was definitely a a great pick. And you know just thinking about it. I didn't I didn't even know that he went fifth overall. And just cool too cool for you to mention that but know when it comes to all this it's just it's it's really uncertain it. This really does suck but you hope that you know this could potentially turn out well for them in some sort of way and you know. I'm sure they're planning to do it like any other. Gm but you know two thousand twenty four like you said five years down the road who knows where they're going to be you know maybe maybe they'll be playoff contenders biden. Hopefully they're going all in but it just it. It was great to actually talk about Actual Baseball in specifically bluejays baseball today. So that was definitely good to talk about. It's been great. Actually look at the Blue Jays and figure out all the ramifications of what this season could mean for the team and of course we got way into the details but that's part of the fun of it anyways that does wrap up for our conversation today. Thank you ever listened and again if you enjoyed this podcast I encourage you to ring in review it on itunes or just tell a friend about us. We'll be back next week and we may have a special guest with us but until then stay safe. Catching actually is awesome. Asa Sorry I just follow my coach.