The Amazon Jungle by Rick Cesari and Jason Boyce Part 2


Welcome to the ten k. Collective podcast for six seven and eight amazon and e commerce sellers apart of the amazing. Fbi family if you want to scale fast target seven figure exit and enjoy the process. Thank keep listening. Today's episode is sponsored by the new e commerce podcast the ecommerce leader co hosted by myself michel visi and jason miles top one percent of shop if i store owner and utilize highest rated e commerce instructor if you're the owner of a thriving e commerce business look for the commerce leader on your favorite podcast app and subscribe today. Hey folks welcome back to the ten key. Collective the place to be for six seven eight. I'm just salas. Today we are talking further with rick's sorry kind of creates at really of direct response tv advertising. Certainly one of the people that made it when he mainstream and jason from avenue media. Jason boyce who is seriously powerful experienced sellers like seventeen years of experience in the trenches and eight figures over many of those as well. So we're gonna be talking today on ready two key areas. One is building a great brand rix sausages for that and the other one as the the keys for selecting and building great product choices by jason. Boyce so powerful stuff. Some of it is stuff that if you've been around the block for awhile you'll have heard before but i think that the type of people that it's being made by and spoken about by really mean that everyone should sit up and take some notice because it comes with a lot of deep experience in this area. I hope you enjoy the show. Thanks for listening. Innovates innovates that brings me to a five key strategies for building a great brand which obviously is the kind of brighton rock the underlies against the twin themes here as a nasty people in need to defend yourself and brand is the answer so your five key stresses rate. Talk us through that to the genius here brick. No i will. And jason knows a lot of these things now as well and uses them every day. But you know. Think about this. And i think at anybody that you're listening michael and selling on amazon if they haven't we'd like to use a phrase when we're talking to people start with the end in mind and what that means is where where do you wanna. Why are you starting amazon business. And where do you want to be. Do you want to sell this business at some point in the future and we were talking before the podcast started a little bit about amazon aggregate irs. And it's a great opportunity for selling an amazon business but one of the things are looking for is a brand. So how do you how do you do that. And you know. I wrote a book building billion dollar brand which is just my experience and working with sonacare juice man and oxy clean and george foreman grill and really taking the things that were the similarities and all of those campaigns and what they did to help build the brand and some of it is very old school or it's not like revolutionary but people don't normally do a lot of them are put all of these things together and the first one is really basic marketing. One on one is your us unique selling proposition. And when jason. I see this all the time people be thinking about starting an amazon business. And they'll wanna market a coffee maker are are a blender and it's like it's no different than any other blender out there you know what is the unique selling proposition and giving a quick blender story a few years ago and i know. It's not this way now on amazon. There was high priced blenders which were vitamix and there were really cheap wearing blenders but there was no one right in the middle and i was working with a couple of guys that said. Hey we're gonna market a blender that tried into middle who got the power revita mixed but you just have to pay a little bit more than the zoeller priced one. So that was their differentiator. You know a couple other examples in either extreme examples but also point out the unique selling proposition. Look at the gopro camera when the guys started that he was competing against sony. Panasonic kodak which is bankrupt now and he was building a camera in his garage. So what did he do to differentiate himself. He basically focused on a little niche x. Camera that would work for extreme sports and that was a great netra him and other little example. There is a coffee. Let's say you're launching a coffee brand and millions of different coffee brands out there. So one of the stories. I like to tell. I think i heard this on a tim. Ferriss podcast was the story of death. Wish coffee it was his strongest coffee ever made. But that's a differentiator jason. I talking earlier. About different is better than better. And that's really what. S p as amazing what what unique about your product or service are are what you're selling. And then how do you communicate that message to someone. And jason goes into really good detail in the book and the product development stages and he's done it and he can talk about it with a foosball table or ping pong table pool table. Whatever he sold is that's a commodity other people are selling it but when he was designing his products he got inspiration for. And i let them tell the story from from a mustang fastback. Any put racing stripes on the table and that was enough of the differentiator to make that the number the number one product in the category. So it's just a really focusing on changing your thinking so that you're looking at how you can make your product different than the competition out there and i'm not saying it's an easy task and you can't necessarily do it for every single product but almost everybody that all the clients at jason's working with has done this pretty much with their with their product. Line do you want to add an jason. I mean that's that's great stuff. Rick i want to share a story with you michael on your listeners. That helped us at one point. My brothers and i in our business. We thought we were the man cave company we thought we were selling to a lot of dudes who were buying pool tables air hockey and foosball tables for their man cave and then we were probably doing nine. Ten million at the time when we when we had this discovery and we took our customer lists and it was even an amazon customer. Listen we sent it to a list broker and we said what. The anonymous demographics breakdown is of our products. And you know what we learned. We learned that we weren't a man cave company we learned that about sixty percent of our customers were women who lived in rural areas who had big houses and lots of kids and we thought dang we were really way off here we are doing you know ten million nine million ten million in revenue and we went back to the drawing board and we said well. We looked at the search results page for all of our tables and we looked at the designs and all of the designs looked like most of the game. Table makers out there were like ex professional billiard players right so old white dudes that old bald fat white dudes with their sense of design right and so it was very masculine and not very inspiring and so we hired craig agency just on a contract basis. We didn't spend a lot of money but we said hey we want your help rebranding our company because we realized we're not selling to bank as we want something that's more fun and exciting and gender neutral and so we started with our brand. We created this. You know fun. Exciting brand bring friends and family together. Which is what mom's wanna do right. They want to buy an air hockey table. Not because of the power of the air blower because they want their kids and their family to come together and have good offscreen time and so we created this really fun and bright color energetic brand and then on the design level rick mentioned that ping pong table. We'd ripped off some designs from ford mustang. But i was walking in a mall at one point and i went to a board. I went to a surf shop to get some. You know a bathing suit. And i saw some board shorts that really cool and they were like blue stripes and orange stripes and they were kind of intermingled and i didn't even buy them. I just took a picture of it with my cell phone. I came back. And i went to our graphic designers and i think this will look cool an air hockey table because i've never seen anything like it and so we. We skinned our air hockey table with these really cool designs and within about three months after landed it became a number one seller on amazon that category. It's a little different things like knowing who your customer is especially for your listeners. Who've got a years worth of thousands and thousands of customers senate overdue list broker find out. What the real demographics aren't see if you can tailor some designs to match them in the last thing i'll say about that is as we started a populate these cool new gender neutral and like less masculine more feminine designs on the search results. Page all you had to do a search air hockey table and see our our stuff jumped off over. The first page of search results are click. Through rates went through the roof. Our conversion rates went through the roof and the best part we sold it for thirty percent higher than everybody else on that page and we still sold as much quantity and think just to add one one little thing that michael is. You can't just go again. This is something you can do in the old days you go to. China find a product could on amazon and make money. Now you have to go to china find a product and add your personal touch or differentiate it from the other products out there and we talk about that in the book before you start selling it on amazon and so it's a little thing but it's something that's necessary to build the brand and then just jumping into the next one zigzag that that's what i call positioning and that's kind of a marketing term. But really i always tell. Tell me about a book. I recommend in a blue ocean strategy. Which is really basically determines. Zigzag came out. If everyone's going one direction you need to go the other direction and look for the open opportunity or the open category or the niche in the marketplace where you can get your product and you know. There's a couple of examples again from products. I work within the past but a juicer. That we have is a great example. And kind of combines. One to a juicer is a commodity a brandon crops when we launched the juice juicer. We're selling these products. And they were selling them as kitchen appliances and when we started. Marketing are juicer. We focused on the benefits of the juice coming out and marketed as a health device. So we we took a common kitchen appliance and turned it into a health device which is totally different category and very similar any any really successful big brand you know about have done a similar strategy. I mention gopro before gopro took the strategy and positioning where there weren't any other cameras in the extreme sports thing and the biggest benefit of a gopro wasn't a fact that it was quote unquote a great camera. It was all the mounting devices where you could mount it on the front of a surfboard on a handlebar on a bicycle on on your ski pole on a helmet. That was the big thing that differentiated go pro from the competition. That you're able to turn it around and take pictures of yourself so the exact part is really about positioning looking for a niche in the market place that it there aren't a lot of competitors that's why they call it blue ocean. There's not a lot of boats out they are. And if you can find that even if it's small you can you can stake a claim and generate great sales. I yeah. I've read the the pollution subsidy and great stuff. I mean i. It does feel very very hard. And i was not severely in the red ocean as they call it. It's because all the sharks feeding on each other. A- does feel very very hard blue ocean at this point. I mean do you think that's still out there in two thousand nine hundred twenty twenty one and beyond will i think it is. It's it's harder to find. And i think it gets niche down. Where before there was a blue ocean it was this big and now it might be this big and you have to find that niche or created and that all goes into what jason was talking about making the product. A little bit different. So it's really hard to find quote unquote. That billion dollar niche now. I'm not saying they aren't out there. But but you don't need a billion dollar niche you need you. Need a million dollar niche to have some success so those are definitely out there. Sure and you know. Michael going back to our coffee sessions that we used to have every friday morning at the issaquah coffeehouse one of the most fascinating discussions that we had there as we were getting to know each other. Was this idea of how. Rick turn these. I mean he took the george forman grill dude was a taco grill machine. So rick came in and turn it into lean mean fat grill and burger machine. Right any higher george foreman. I mean who does that right. And this is what his method was. He shared this with me. And i should probably let you say at rick. What are you telling the hotel. And then i'll tell the. I'll tell the comparable way that we thought. The process was the same that we were doing on amazon. Tell us how how you would go out and you would interview these real customers and how you would learn from them. Yes so this. This kind of covers a little bit of four and five always listen and authentic testimonials and michael one of the things i started doing when. We're doing a lot of television. Marketing is i. I would always have great success with a product that was already in the marketplace. Even if they were doing very little sales like ten thousand dollars or whatever as opposed to a brand new invention and one of the reasons for that is that i could go to their customer base. And i could line up these interviews with people and basically. I had a video camera rolling. I would interview ten to fifteen people. And basically i would hear the stories and i would ask them about twenty questions and you know. How did you hear about the product. What do you like. What are you don't like why. Why did you buy it. And after the end of that time after talking to ten people you start to see some trends and those are the things that you pull out from a marketing perspective and then you know it's better than any focus group you could ever do. 'cause he's real customers at bought the product that have spent money and then obviously the second part of that is. We're videotaping him. So now we have these testimonials that we could use in our marketing you know for our e commerce are website marketing are testimonials on television commercials. Or whatever and we won't go down to whole rabbit hole of testimonial. But i really think they're one of the strongest marketing things. There are amazon. Uses they just call them. Reviews hypothetic- but jason. Jason was saying. Why do the same thing. But just a little bit different. Yeah rick saying this to me. And i'm like my god. That's the same process that we use to find blue ocean products and categories on amazon. We read all the bad reviews from the bestsellers and we identify where the opportunity is in given subcategory. And i was like it's like it's the same process. I didn't have a camera. I wasn't sitting. Live with folks. But i i would go through download and read all of the negative reviews for every air hockey table. Second page of search results. That's an important point when emphasize you read the bad reviews. Because that's your opportunity. Yeah you read the bad reviews for years to it. I'll tell you another good reason to read the good reviews for your own product but but the light bulb went off for me michael amazon. Yes that's the same process. And i asked at one point. How do you feel about these expensive focus groups and he was like oh they don't work and he told me this great jay story about how they'd spent millions of dollars following the advice of focus group focus group members who had never purchased and use their own money to buy. The product had never really experienced the product and given bad advice to the merchandising marketing team. Yeah so you can avoid all of that by reading the bad reviews from the customers. Not only so that you can develop so that you can start a product from the ground up that solves the problems that are existing in the marketplace from products on amazon. That are doing really really well in sales right and then the second piece of that is you can use that fix that you put into your product and make that part of your benefits messaging when you do go enlist the product on amazon. You're already telling people in your infographics in words your additional images. Hey my product solves the problem that these other bestsellers are having so come by mine and by the way you're gonna cost you a little bit more but you're not going to have that problem that the other guys have so. That's that's where you go find the blue ocean on amazon. That's one of the ways right and then and then just one one last thing. Michael new york notice but a lot of the things that jason i are talking about. There's kind of a parallel strategy. There's your amazon strategy but there's a lot of things you can't do on amazon. You have to do those on your e commerce website but the war that those two things can work together. The synergy between the two is the will help make you more successful on amazon so you can really get into the origin story. You can do a lot of the things that we're talking about here and it'll benefit what you're doing on amazon so it's kind of like a dual strategy and we talk about that in a book as well mason. While there's so much. I mean first of all the whole thing forget about focus groups just talk about people who paid money reminds another quite from the four hour workweek i. I don't have shares in the book. I wish i did now. But he said something like don't ask people if they will buy awesome to buy. Which is the difference between. Do you like this product and great about ten of them in the car. You want one. So is not quite the same thing but it comes down to the value only paid money so by definition they are actually worth knowing their opinion about because then other people will share their opinion also spend money rather than focus groups as he site so i really liked that and deal very thorough jason downloading reading all the reviews on pages one and two. This is probably. It's not new advice to reach vs. Goodness knows the thoroughness of that. On the belief it. I think is is a different thing. It's it's a gold mine. I just want to mention one thing. Real quick michael for your listeners and i have a email template like a six step emails that you send out to your database to solicit authentic testimonials and. That's something i'd give away for free. And if they just emailed me rick at rick's xerri dot com. I'll send that out to anybody for free. That wants it. Pathetic will yes. I think anyone saying right now should be putting your hand off to get that as we would say talk about. Y'all absolutely yeah. This is great. What i really love about it is. This is not jason. You sold on amazon for seventeen years and long years much out of it now. Today's but yet you'll very very passionate about this. I can hear that the excitement of the synergy between your collision of a set of tea slightly different yet very similar underneath world. So this is amazing stuff. Tell me then the next thing that i've got to get out another five five-step thing we've the the inside liberals this is intense steps at five steps for finding essential steps of finding a winning product. I mean that's obviously the thing that everybody in. The world is obsessed with so jason. You've got to answer that one. Assure so i'll sort of paraphrase those steps we when we're sitting down and writing a book we ask ourselves. How do we. How do we know how do we. Our readers know where to start with the new product. Now that's whether you're a brand new seller you've never sold in your life or you've already got an existing company and you want to start thinking about the next skew for your skew pipeline right. How do we how do you do that. And so you know one of the things that we did my brothers. And i when i when i left the marine corps. I'm sitting there at the family dinner table. And we're saying what kind of business should we get into. I was adopted into my jewish family. I call them here in los angeles and you read my story right chapter two. I was in a in a good place in my teens. I got invited to a family. Dinner on friday night on a on a shabbat at this wonderful family of the clerks and feltz here in los angeles. And you know i i showed up and it really changed my life you. I talked about the story. About how how that happened. And we sat down at the dinner table and everyone's talking about their stories. The kids think their mother for everything that they did for them that week and we start having these stories in. I learned that for from the time. The sun goes down friday night till the time. The sun goes down saturday night. The kids couldn't play video games. They couldn't watch television. They just hung out together and one of the things that they did what we did. Was we played. We played backgammon. We played ping pong. We played basketball out in the court and so it was it was. It was a life altering experience for me. I just invited myself every friday night. And every saturday from you know every every week after that became part of the family and they sort of unofficially adopted me but fast forward ten years. I'm leaving the marine corps. I'm coming back. Let's start a business and we asked ourselves. What should we do and we said why. Don't we do what helped us become closer as a family. Why don't we sell the same products that brought us together as a family and that was our inspiration right. That was our story. And so yeah. We sold foosball tables. We sold the ping pong tables. We still basketball hoops. Because we're huge laker fans and we wanted to. We wanted to share that experience in. You know so. We studied the products and we shared that with the customer. So that was one inspiration for me and so one of the things that we say in the book is when you're trying to come up with your next product or your first product. What moves you right. What is it that you're passionate about. What is it that you know. More about a product category than anyone else. you know. Maybe you worked a high school in highschool you worked job and you've got to learn a product line because you're selling shoes or something you know some sort of product in a shoe store. I worked at a speaker shop something that you have some base of knowledge about. It's a little bit more than the rest. That's the starting point. And when you go through that sort of discovery process and find product that you're passionate about and one of the reasons we like to say be passionate about it because it's hard work michael right. We're talking we're not. We're not hiding the fact that it's going to take a lot of your time. Treasure and energy to build the next great product in the category. Want to be in so you wanna be passionate about it because that extra passion will get you over the finish line right but then the next thing that you want to do. Is you want to validate that product. Just because you're passionate about it if you go on amazon and you find the best sellers in that category are doing one thousand dollars a month in sales. I'm sorry you may be passionate about that product. Don't do it because you're not gonna get your money. Back are your time and treasure back from the investment. So fine what moves you. Find something that you know a little bit about an and maybe something that you know. You're buying a product. Now that leaves you wanting that's not quite right but you your passion about this category and you you think if you just change be it would be so much better right. Bring that to market but then take a look on amazon. And you can. Use tools like your. Your audience knows these tools. Helium ten jungle scout. Use that old nine ninety nine checkout trick go to amazon. Search your category. Find out if the product that you're passionate about has a market if there's no market your time and energy those are the first the first two important pieces is i would say does that. Does that make sense. Michael absolutely make sense of and he's very much more baked begging anybody. He's trying to work with me from scratch to like. Please do something you know about and care about as you said. I think seth godin said something like it's about hockey. I presume ice hockey 'cause in buffalo and there was and he said something like a car the first two things well but he said you gotta care enough to get hit because you will say you could actually care enough to be willing to take some knox and keep going. I think it's actually a very business like thing to to to go for the has both got a market and everyone's obsessed with the latest on software. So i need to big up it up. You gotta validates it of course but will sites on the you care about is less common and i think that's actually not a business like decision. It sounds counterintuitive. 'cause passion to do with the rational businesses decision. Well if you don't survey at for twelve months or fifteen months during the development phase you never going to know whether it's gonna make you serious amount of money or not because you'll never get point so for me. It's rational thing. Yeah you summarized that much better than i did. Michael ample and i don't know if you want to mention it but jason has a great client. You know that's passionate about pets. And they have a niche telecom about the what what they sell online which i would never think in a million years would be a business but but it is. Yeah i mean it's it's incredible. It's it's it's an incredible company. Walking pets is their name know. Gee just walk in with an apostrophe pets and they built these dog wheelchairs for pets who've had accidents. And you know what. I was a kid. You put down a dog like that and these folks came to the market you know mark the founders just so passionate about this he extending the lives of pets am by the way when we took them over as a client. We came back and said what's the benefit of your product. Happy healthy pets but also happy healthy owners right so we put that messaging together. And i mean these guys. Every single day are finding use cases. Where a pet has been injured in a different way. And they're out there designing a product to help that pet live a longer happier life. It's just i mean. Give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Michael you're having coffee. And i said hey jason. I got a great idea. I'm gonna start a business. I'm gonna sell pet wheelchairs. The somebody would probably laugh in your face. But the the pre people are passionate about it and they have a thriving business now. That's funny because i happen to live around the corner with from a place which had been on. Tv where they'd created something along those lines and it was pretty. Tv is years ago and the landlord turned out to be one of the helped. Develop that stuff. So yeah it's it's a it's a neat little thing that actually is full of of emotional connection took about emotion people in their pets especially dogs doesn't dotson emotional thing on you pretty much pop saving your child's life. I think the second biggest thing. I've seen people motivated by britta pretty soppy about that dogs as well here is is to do something feel pets. So that's a super smart emotional drive. Is eve again. It comes out so if you care if you fake carrying to. Somebody ready casbah dogs or children. You've probably had it if you really care then makes for a really wonderful thing unless you said warm fuzzy feeling like the most positive code of amazon selling story. I've ever had actually have to say so. That's quite amazing. That's that's definitely you've got to be the way to go. well this. This is a wonderful sort of warm fuzzy thing. I'm kind of tempted to leave her on that. What should i ask you. That is a huge book. That's what i say huge very readable. But it's a lot of solid content. What things should people know that it really essential to not think in this modern amazon era. If you're either expanding your brand or even if you starting from scratch that we have mentioned so far well we've covered a lot of ground in a short period of time. Haven't we michael. I mean you know. I think the thing to know. And maybe this is a nice segue to talk about some of these aggregates that have had so much. Excess is the margins on amazon tightening right and when i first started all the way back in two thousand and three it was like the honeymoon wild west because we had plenty of blue ocean space. We keep referencing this book by the way rick. We're competing with that book and that cat and our category amazon. So we're we're trying to catch them right now. We've got a ways to go of our book. I'm gonna stop plugging blue ocean. Because i want to pass them as a best seller in our category on amazon. But you know one of the things. That's become sort of a necessary evil. We like to call it in the book amazon. Advertising and any anyone who's a a seller of any sort of significance on amazon knows that main street you know you're harking back to the brick and mortar days being on main street where there's all the foot traffic and also the you know the traffic where your sides can be seen where you can gain mindshare. That is the first page of search results and now amazon has changed to where it's a pay to play platform so you have to drive traffic on amazon two. You're listening and if you do not and you don't do it in an efficient and effective way you'll get left behind there's a couple of different kinds of placements that you can get on that first page of search results now and one of the whole top above the fold section of the first page of search results. Now pay to play so again. This goes back to our strategy. Michael have your own product. Have your own. Registered trademark brand name have brand registry on amazon. So that you can pay and defend your brand on the top third of the first page of search results. And if you're not doing that you're losing an opportunity. Rick mentioned this before if you're doing instagram ads facebook ads google ads. If you're doing direct tv if you've got placement in a retail location and you're not defending that sponsored brand ad place for all of your brand key words you are driving sales to your competitors pobably someone. You've never heard a brand. You've never heard their brand before right. Because they're amazon folks who know the game so having a really smart brand defensive strategy was sponsor brands and then also have an effective sponsor product strategy. See ads so that you've got more than one placement on that first page of search results advertising can help drive the search algorithm gets you to that first page for your organic free listings but when you can have that listing and prominent ad placement. That's when the magic starts to okay. So i mean i think you cannot ignore you know we. We have this quote. Henry ford cutting off advertising is like someone stopping time by turning off their watch you have to. You have to pay to play now on amazon and you have to be there and you have to have an effective strategy and we we outlined some of that in our chapter on ads. I love that. Henry ford quote by the way. That's fantastic already like that rick. Have you got anything to add to. That intensive sort of branding angle woman go to two things. One is really high level. And i think amazon in order to increase revenues. Is they're going to keep coming up with more advertising opportunities and some of them you know they're just going to kind of copy. What people are doing out in the marketplace and so also i have to say about the advertising is is really get familiar with direct marketing. Direct response marketing principles. So that you can make your advertisements more effective and you know there's a whole thing you know about brand advertising which is about awareness versus direct response advertising which gets people to take action so we could spend a whole episode talking about this michael. But just be thinking when you're doing your advertising if if you can follow a direct model where the end action is getting people to go. And click on your the by box for your product and you'll and you'll have more success and then the other is more micro and we didn't really get into it but we we get into it in the book and that is really and again. This isn't a new subject but it's about optimizing listings. And how do you make the listing. Do better and i'm always really amazed. I can go on amazon right now. Go to a major brand that selling coffee maker and you see an image. That's like the front view of the coffee maker the side view of the coffee maker. And there's no people in there's no there's no info graphics in in the end jason and i are really big believers in making each product image on your listing to say. Let's make it a magazine at that. Each listing jumps out at you and you really focus on putting infographics on there and a good example. We do in the book and it for client ajay's into coffee maker again. It's a commodity. There's zillions of coffee makers out there but the very first image on on for one of the coffee makers ajay's is helping do as isn't even a picture of the product. It's a picture of a woman drinking a cup of coffee and it's again that emotional appeal and then you look at any other products on there. Nobody else is doing that. So little little things like that. That can improve. It will prove you're you're listening in your conversions. We we talk about in the book and again we could spend a whole show on on those things. Unfortunately you have come on until before about eating in some detail about the when we chose about video out your video. Moxie book about the difference between brand of ties in direct response. And actually your idea of. Why don't you do both get paid undeveloped. Your brand right which is direct branding. Your your concept you'll be a words not making your ip that but also. I think you're right. What strikes is a blue ocean. Opportunity isn't so much picking the magical product is going to make you rich. It's is the fact that somebody listings at doing such a terrible job on spicy. Thank goodness for amazon is a first party seller because we've mentioned already how terribly they do it. That's a wonderful opportunity to do a better job. And it's actually still amazes me as you say that you look around and people who just putting a boring picture shop for product on a white background. Yes you've got to do that for the main image. You said he doesn't have to do that for nine boring images and and as you say about somebody drinking. I've got a coffee maker. i love drinking coffee. I don't really love the coffee maker. i love the drinking bit. Who just selling this is not the stake. It's pretty old school right. So the benefits. Not the features is nothing that you wouldn't get taught if you. I was taught that when i was trying to sell double glazing when i was kelly twenty nine year old and i hated the job i learned a lot about direct sales and that was one of the absolute basics and yet. Nobody's told that to the people out there. So i think i could just say of wrapping up on and the warm fuzziness of the dogs which still getting over. How wonderful teacher. Michael melody if somebody's a doctor versus anything else you like okay. So you win you win really dot worthiness of what you're doing but also the fact that there's so much opportunity given by such terrible marketing out there. I i love that fat seventies. Telemarketing is your opportunity. Yeah so yeah. I mean look mike all the way back up so i reco- head. I'm just going to say and let me give you an example of wire where price doesn't matter. I have three dogs. I knew jason was doing this project about two weeks ago. One of my dogs. It weighs about ten pounds for whatever reason decided to jump off of a picnic table. We were at the dog park well. She landed funny and she tore his acl on her leg and now she's walking around on three legs. So what's the first thing we do. I called jason. You know went to amazon. And believe me i did not care how much the leg splint cost i wanted the best legs splint that i could get for my pet and i was willing to pay. A premium price for a took dokes and babies are just wonderful. Markets davies by motion. He said having said that people should always put those in. The picture is positive. It's funny they say never work with children and animals as somebody. He's done a lot of teaching kids in the poss kind of attest to that. But when it comes to emotion vocation than you definitely them in say very basics here listened to me you take this wonderful conceptual stuff and making it very very kind of old school salesman here. So we up this up so you can go on and help other. People make millions and millions on on amazon and other places. Obviously you've got a book coming out of here. It's stephanie cool to the amazon jungle. So tell us a little bit about where people can get that and you know why they should buy it. How it's going to help them. Well sure you can. You can get it of all places an amazon dot com the amazon jungle it's rick's holding it up there and it's over my think it's your left shoulder my right shoulder and if you are one of those folks that refuse to buy from amazon there seems to be a growing crowd of those folks that are out there and you. You refuse to give amazon their money. By the way. Rick i said amazon makes money off more money than we do you. Can you can go to barnes and noble dot com and you can go to books a million so pretty much every bookstore out there is now carrying it so you know it's just we try. We try to just get right to the point michael. There's not a lot of fluff in. There is a little emotion. But it's important and it's important to the story in the path to success on amazon as far as we believe. Yeah enrique any final words about the book and what people can expect from buying it. Just you know if you're selling on amazon. I think there's information there that will help. You do better amazing. Well it has been a real pleasure as a real roller coaster ride as you suggest. We covered a lot of ground there. I'm left with the twin images of the wonderful opportunity provided by terrible foreing photography and those dogs. And you'll dog with. Its splint rick so don't get swell saying and it's been up sleep places. Have you both on at the same time. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Michael thank you michael. Thanks for listening to the elected. Podcast part of the family of amazing. Fb a podcast. Today's episode is sponsored by the new e commerce. Podcast the ecommerce leader. The podcast is hosted by yours. Truly and jason miles multi-million dollar shop owner and economies highest rated commerce instructor if you're the owner of thriving online business to become the best commerce lead you can be it's got your name on it for free guides and many courses on many topics go to. Www dot the ecommerce leader dot com

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