Chet van Duzer on Sea Monsters

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In two sunbathing by earning miles on everything you buy is the car that turns everyday purchases into miles like two times advantage miles at grocery stores plus you can earn a spot. Do you catch yourself daydreaming about your next getaway the sun the beach is cold drink in your hand with the American Airlines advantage mile up card from city you can go from daydream didn't see monsters and in fact it was another manuscript of ptolemies geography I was at the National Library of Spain and hey and welcome to stuff to blow your mind my name is Joe McCormick -versity of Rochester which brings multi spectral imaging to cultural institutions around the world he's published extensively on medieval and renaissance maps in addition literature and ancient Greek and Latin at Berkeley and it took me a while to find maps as it were and it was at a very specific first thanks for having me it's a pleasure to be here and as far as my background with maps I'd studied mathematics and English my normal co host Robert Lamm is not with us today he's off on vacation at the other side of the haunted see so instead I'm bringing you an interview today that I is names and also had very unusual shape and so I wanted to learn more about that where this train shape point of come from where all these places MHM sleight of come from and so that was when I got interested in maps and it was in another institution in Europe where I got into it fifteen fifty was published in twenty fifteen by the British library and in two thousand Sixteen Brill published a book he co-authored with Iliad dines apocalyptic I did with an expert on maps and sea monsters monsters seemed appropriate for this time of year this expert is named Chet Van Doozer and I think you're really autocracy thematic maps in the end of the world in Fifteenth Century Manuscript in two thousand eighteen springer published his book Hinrikus Martell Asus World Map at Yale they have I knew they had a manuscript of told me geography and I wanted to see it and when I opened the manuscript I saw that all of the maps had fourteen ninety-one multispectral imaging sources and influence his current project is a book about cartographic cartoons and without any further ado from the middle of the fifteenth century but it had a map added to it at another map painted blank pages in about fifteen thirty Lindau is at the Vatican museums as a tourist and they had a a manuscript of ptolemies geography on display and the manuscript. Let's get right into the interview about see monsters Chad Van doozer welcome to the show it's a pleasure to have you here to talk about sea monsters and monsters on them lots and lots of monsters in fact more than any other manuscript since encountered and I apps of the Medieval and renaissance period would you start just by introducing yourself maybe talk a little bit about your background and what got you interested in maps yes well Joe Airlines advantage mile up card today welcome stuff to blow your mind. Production iheartradio has to wear to his book sea monsters on Medieval Renaissance maps which is published by British Library in two thousand thirteen his book the world for King Peer to Skelly as map gonNA enjoy this interview so to introduce a mere chapman users of researcher in residence at the John Carter Brown Library and a board member of the Lazarus Project to the unit if you might WanNa talk a little bit more generally about historical cartography what is it that you can learn about a group of people from the I thought and these these monsters were not mentioned in the literature about this manuscript so I thought I should write an article about the monsters in Hispania script pass from another time and place by looking at the maps they made that you might not learn by looking at other things yes well all too often an historical maps are just used as illustrations for books for historical books for example but others as well and the article kept growing and growing growing an finally colleague Catherine Smith pointed out that it would make more sense as a book and she was where is in fact maps historical maps often contain historical evidence that is not preserved in other sources European illustration of possum occurs on Martin Vaulting Lurs Carta Marina of fifteen sixteen and there certainly were on a map and this happens look more frequently than one might suspect in a large detailed or no doubt earlier European depictions of the apostle which was regarded as marvel because it was the first marsupials the Matt can have a little bit of a encyclopedias encyclopedic character to it and thus preserves information of both texts it had a very very interesting totally hypothetical southern continent and even though it was labeled Tara and cognitive was full of we'll be right well I just wanted to say I've really loved this book it's full of fascinating stuff before we get directly into the sea monsters I wonder are of the world view of ancient people like what they felt about the the broader world especially places far away from them it does talk specifically about the decoration in even the exact number of trees that were to be painted on the map and I think we maps in the sense that it was generally thought that the most distant parts of the world were the parts filled with monsters and essential in constructing historical argument does looking at ancient maps also give you a better idea of the kind of the texture elaine graphical from various sources and and sometimes considering the historical evidence offered by maps Israelis the fact that that's often the case on maps is very clear graphic evidence of that that thought Europeans had encountered there's only were earlier depictions but as it happened they don't survive and us as it happens the earliest surviving depiction this be for any number of reasons but just to mention one example the earliest surviving vote if one looks a variety of manuscripts of told me is geography and one can do the same thing with nautical charts one begins to get the impression that into the decoration up maps and we do have one contract for the creation of medieval maps and it does we know that the person commissioning map was someone who wanted more they wanted more more of the options available have to imagine something similar happening with sea monsters that this was an optional decorative element one could have ah it can be difficult to try to go from a map to what the cartography was thinking but in some cases nicking that that that manuscript we don't have document that that goes through what the person who commissioned the script wanted from it a very plain manuscript ptolemies geography or nautical chart or one could have a more elaborately decorated the sort of structure of the world. I think maybe we should get into our discussion of Simone stirs just by having you describe a couple of your favorite examples so when you think of at your favorite medieval or renaissance maps with sea monsters on them what do they show and what do we know about the circumstances under which these maps were made yes one of them One of my favorite maps or in this case an atlas involving see monstrous precisely that manuscript of ptolemies geography in and but I I I have a feeling there's more and again we don't have textual evidence to support this so it is speculation but it seems said the library of Spain and as is often the case we we know we we don't have textual evidence about the corporation in commissioning the creation of a work like this that wealthy person had many different options and many of those options related Michael Warning One that comes to mind is I believe you have an example of a thirteen sixty seven nautical chart by the Mother's Pizza Ghani that shows war decoration immoral manuscript so that's certainly part of what's happening with that specific manuscript of toll geography so remarkable it does not just sirens there's multiple different types of sirens their sirens was one on sirens with two tales can the sea monsters were one of those optional elements so when we see see Monsters Onondaga Shar or manuscript of ptolemies geography sirens wearing European clothing so it really feels like in this case it was a specialist in defines the sources for a number of the C- monsters on medieval ONS maps which is to say the cartographers were not it'd be a different kind of interest I think I think it was a different interest so one of the serve multiple functions in one of them definitely decoration but also there was a desire to convey information and I know that can sound a little ridiculous when convey information about what is in the other a number of examples I was looking at in your book where it really does seem like that it's a specific practice whoever whoever was painting the monsters in The seas of that manuscript took a particularly strong interest in the subject because the varieties the giant octopus attacking the ships is right near the edge of the map out in the Atlantic right near the often look fantastical they look like one thinks surely the cartographer just to this on the spot but in fact I was able the things that came out in my research for this book was to looking at the sea monsters on medieval maps the they as far out in the Atlantic as the cartographers depiction goat and I think that's an important element here that again the the aware there's a limit of knowledge is where monsters tend to be located so on that same map the cartographer does show I like an illustrated encyclopedia so I think seamaster amount look at that and say well that just looks like maybe they're trying to live in up some blank space on the map but it comes with a warning it says while these ships are going to port dragons and octopuses care when we look at some of these monsters and they do seem utterly fantastical some of the ones that seem the most fantastic were in fact copied from musters paint involvement someone who had a very strong interest in the subject so what do you think creates a passion for sea monster that is in fact a great example and it's it's worth emphasising that that image of the Flying Dragon that jump is possible and in fact monsters play into precisely that aspect was to ships in the North Atlantic nearer the supposed mythical of Brazil I think being attacked by dragon and a giant octopus so you could stint inventing them on the spot they were copied from sources that the cartographer would have had reason to try the Tigers knowledge we have as you say warning about monsters attacking ships is it also an important distinction that this is on a nod makers were really serving two very different audiences the cartographer could make an undecorated nautical chart without the is in that kind of period yes to a question is it the same thing that make somebody interested in horror movies today Nicole Chart as opposed to just two decorative map that that's a good question so very unsurprising thing about nautical charts is that the the illustrations of Walruses as C. Monsters they're just they look amazing So how does that sort of the sea monster is the facilities the images of sovereigns the animals have the mountain ranges and it was that type of undecorated chart that would be three all of the crew members off and leave the ships empty and seems to be warning people who are approaching this poor though I think the port is entirely mythical is that correct he is wanted the very elaborately decorated charts for collection and display as as symbols of their worldly knowledge in power whereas others held that a monster was as a fearsome as it was nonetheless of a part of God's plan it actually used in navigation so if a if a chart was decorated with all these images it would be expensive they might have used expensive pigments orb throughout the Middle Ages and much of the renaissance regarded as monsters and in in that that spread that natural life form Category Blur with mythological terrors like you know like the cracking or Leviathan or the sirens yes and so maybe we should talk about the definition of a what what makes see Monster you know what we know that there are many natural life the two pages you mentioned with the walruses there's a map from I believe it's sixty ninety five that at explicit of course so the same Acres of nautical charts were on the one hand serving a practical market that is people who actually use the charts I to define the word disagreed so some held that a monster with something against nature in some way sources that dicara talker would've fought reliable so he asked as a decorative element but at the same time there's a desire to navigate and those would have been the undecorated charts and at the same time they were serving this market of nobles Nobles who who it's such a valuable math to the salt air of course if you're taking charge you probably want to use it to indicate that type of chart would never have been taken to see for one thing the should captain couldn't have afforded it and then even if he could he wouldn't want subject as you as you were hinting at that the the definition of monster changes over time so as you said forms such as Wales that have commonly been interpreted as sea monsters throughout history in fact one of my favorite parts of your book was just got a a spread over a couple of pages that's more character to it and shows more worldly knowledge about what lives there but what might be other economic demands for for sea monsters on maps if any or maybe you can say whether it'd be more often or not They would just be decorations that would be commissioned by somebody who was looking for a spicier map maybe something that has ships regaining evidently safely in the Atlantic but closer to the European mainland there three shifts that come out of the street could be used as a a literal warning information given to sailors you know you might not want to travel here because there's a map they could More often probably identifies the Walrus as a monster and yet today Bob For us a Wales the furthest thing from a monster it's noble monsters differed in in very fundamental ways and it remains a word is difficult to define today I think and then also there's the fact that defining defining the word monsters problematic and Nevil and renaissance authors who his wishes were or aims were in in placing sea monsters on maps how much it might have been motivated for example by event there was an additional function intended function of the sea monsters on this map and that was to scare away fishermen from other nations I and it's interesting to think about ways that that definition will continue to evolve how things that today we think of as monstrous in the future decaration in an attempt to indicate what's actually living in the ocean it can be difficult to divine what the cartographer elegant creature that's to be preserved and I also think that we would we would not characterize Walrus as a monster either in cartography of a trap street like the idea of a a fake feature added to a map to Swim Morse copyright I wonder if a c monster has ever been used for this purpose not to my knowledge and perhaps part of that would be that maps for his collection of of images of seamstress which is allow smack Mrs Carter Marina of fifteen thirty nine which is really yes well as I was saying earlier it's because see monsters serve often serve more than one function on maps they can be both wonderful suggestion about a possible function of sea monsters one possibility that occurred to me I mean I was wondering if you ever right up so there was this great freedom in there was no no blame associated with copying many different interest as a monster is that it is a natural life form that has many of the morphological characteristics that are often attributed falsely to monster is like it has the our ideas may may continue to change about those things one thing that was funny to me about the the idea of since leaving the abundant catch from the northern waters the to the fishermen of Scandinavia and I think that's really the the commissioning the maps wished to have a very heavily decorated map and how much it was motivated by a wish to it has the briskly facial hair you know that we see on the I think there are a bunch of whales depicted in your book that have facial hair of some kind like a must elements of of maps in literary works and other things so because of that it's it's difficult for me to imagine a sea monster the image gradually became somewhat more lifelike but it was a slow process we're GONNA take ask so anyway I thought that was a funny point of comparison so you've talked about the idea that that sometimes monsters on maps break but we'll be right back with more of the interview I often have a hard time falling asleep at night or staying asleep I frequently wake up feeling stiffen the mornings map with the same name depicted the onerous much like an elephant which seems very surprising the preacher that looks like an elephant but it's very clearly the pain in my neck and back I'm always waking up hot and sweaty at night but I just got a purple mattress in this thing is incredible it's so comfortable it stays to convey information about what's in the oceans but as one in particular it's a one of the most spectacular an interesting Nice and cool at night it's different than any other mattress I've ever had before and I never wake up in pain if you're struggling to get a good night's sleep you've got to try purple mattress the purple the waters off a Scandinavia and the waters are full of seem and a colleague of mine has suggested I N D two eight four eight message and data rates may apply and we're back maybe we should mattress will probably feel different than anything you've ever experienced because it uses this brand new material that was developed by an actual rocket scientist it's not like the memory foam that I'm used to the it better to do depicted the creature like an elephant and this error had remarkable life through maps it was copied again and again in overtime free shipping and returns you're going to love purple and right now our listeners we'll get a free purple pillow with the purchase of mattress that's in addition to the great free gifts mccraw something like this th- this might touch on a an episode you cover in the book about the The flying turtle but I was thinking about the concept labeled Walrus and what must have happened is that someone said well the the Walrus tusks like elephant and the artists not knowing that offering site-wide just text mind two eight four eight eight the only way to get this free pillow is to text mind two eight four eight eight that's purple material feels very unique because it's both firm and soft at the same time so it keeps everything supported while still feeling really comfortable plus it's breathable suits but going back to the example of the Walrus I mean it's very interesting to watch basically the evolution of the image of the Walrus from the early sixteenth century to the end of that century so Martin vaulting on his Carta Marina different it's a little bit about sirens what they represent and and why they show up on so many maps yes well the of and then they die there and overtime the image of sirens evolved as often happens with ethical sleeps cool if you're not fully satisfied you can return your mattress for a full refund it's backed by a ten year warranty a one hundred nights risk-free trial and talk about a few individual features that that I enjoyed from your book that popped up on several maps so one is the idea of sirens could you speak Aron goes back to two homers honesty and he talks about these female creatures that that live on an island show bonus miles offer after qualifying purchases they'd get you even closer to your next getaway head to city dot com slash S. T. V. YM to apply for the American a sing as sailors pass by in their ships in their song is so powerful that tracks the sailors to the island they used that way at least at least in the Middle Ages and renaissance time London lineup that's disappear tournier heading north close to the coast of Spain and France but then further out in the Atlantic again near the limit of in the Middle Ages the ideas about what one was permitted to copy yeah we're very different a spectacular in terms of Monsters my favorite by the way yeah about by with good reason so demands show is a Scandinavian in for the world an integral part of God's plan for the world is a strain people trying to define creatures and there is a an important world map from about fourteen sixty three different kinds of sirens in the Indian Ocean and it shows them graphically descriptive text talks about these three different kinds and one is huge claws and red is might have some connection with that myth but I haven't been able to find any evidence to substantiate often bad weather for C. voyages or treacherous passages because of rocks or whatever else yes and I wish it were and is certainly one of the most common sea monsters depicted on maps. EA If a map is only only depicts Tuesday monsters connection but I think it's more difficult to define someone who says this is why that monster was a way of representing the danger in other cases it's one with good reasons to spend a horrifying way with red eyes reaching after a ship with these clawlike hands knowledge about what's going on there and I've wondered whether there might be some connection between this giant figure emerging from the water with these lives near the southern tip of Africa and and sort of his purpose in life is to make the passage around the tip of Africa difficult legal danger and the presence of monsters and one example of that is in the street Messina which was mythologised difficult straight there but but thinking about the geography of of sea monsters one one area on maps I wish I could say yes I have suspicions so the the location of that are there were more evidence connecting those things so I think you're absolutely right to to suspect that there is often a connection between a the chances are pretty good that one of them will be siren One of my favorites from your book definitely the scariest looking one to me in the whole book was a really and in the national epic of Portugal others this giant half woman half horse which is very unusual and one does not appear on many other maps but it's a horse with two legs isn't it that ever a horse with two yes between a Sicily and mainland Italy and there was was an apologist is having to monsters they're which is at that oh well that naturally makes me wonder about the connection between the origins of sea monster myths and just natural phenomena like whether places where there's Humanoids Sea Monster from Urbano Montes Manuscript outlets of fifteen ninety just like the top half of a man but just depicted medieval renaissance maps at sea monsters more frequented certainly the Indian Ocean and I think that has to do with the fact that that was the make less sense to me than your standard Centaur Beth right but yeah the did the siren and ahead a very long life on maps Mr on I think they're maps that monster appears twice and one of them is near the southern tip of Africa if I recall correct the things that are strange in monstrous or fantastic at the edges of the world and the Indian Ocean was the edge of the World Shen furthest from had a name I think we can say and so there was a tendency as we were discussing earlier there's a tendency to to place and it revolves around a bit shift journey out in the Atlantic and there's a tremendous storm and the mariners or very afraid and they're afraid of seeking but then there are also afraid of the monsters explicitly afraid of the monsters in other cases not falling off the edge but furthest known I think it's an important distinction to make area of the world does was often populated with Seema I guess we have to confront the fact that the voices of the average sailor from the Middle Ages is not typically a voice how much helplessness was managed in the division of sea monsters are writing about them like a is it correct that earlier on winner it on average how afraid are you of sea monsters pickled question there's there's a wonderful passage from a Roman poet and in the notion there's a great image of of two men who are diving it has come down to us it's been preserved in documentary record so we is often not as easy as one might like to understand their in underwater and they seem to be collecting these multicolored rocks and on either side of them there is a seem oster that seemed to be feelings about see monstrous Well I mean I was just thinking about the accounts you document in your book where it seems like there may be an evolution over time in as of fighting back did there there's early as some movement in that direction and they're there to one or full examples of ways to to fight back most depictions of sea monsters were more kind of invulnerable you were completely at third mercy and over time there became more of a a representation of what living away and as a text explains that these are Pearl Divers and the Pearl divers have magic spell they say before they get in the water in case where where humans do seem to have some defense against the monsters and the other one is a returning to Las Vegas there's do you get a sense of to what degree there was real fear about these monsters like if you were a an ancient or medieval or renaissance we'll have a journal that the cartographer laughed explaining why I he or she put the things on the map that he or she did against the monsters and one of the Catalan Atlas of thirteen seventy five call so called because in the Catalan language language of cuts Luna I it's it's difficult to be sure and there's there's a lot of difficulty being sure with a medieval and renaissance maps one that caught my attention in the book were the it was the folklore about the nest of the abyss and the entrance to hell I think this is related to the associated with the image it turns out that this is a trumpet and the text explains that when when a ship is in danger of being attacked by the Saint Brendan Legend Yes this is Andre Beyond Goes matrimony fourteen thirty six we know of fifteen thirty nine there's an image of ship with a sea monster behind it a a huge monster and there's a a man this is an entrance to the abyss at the South Pole which is what he's basically saying and the there was there was yeah it's that's another one where it's very difficult to to try and get at the source of this idea that there's lean maps and sea monsters in the history of science do you see developing scientific ideas playing a role or being manifested in the way sea monster what the sources were and sometimes it's possible to find the sources but other times it's not is it possibly think to talk about the relationship that scares away the sea monsters and at if it were not for the spell the sea monsters would certainly devour them so that's one grade you are absolutely right and one wonders about this room stances under which this was tried another one is there is no earlier work that shows the same creature and they seem to be assembled from parts of different creatures began to decline so they they made a transition towards being more purely decorative and then they began to decline as maps began to be because many of the monstrous we see portrayed come from things like encyclopedias illustrated encyclopedia is this I wish I knew where this idea the visit the South Pole came from whether it had any relation to this myth about this text at the North Pole and on the back of a ship and at first glance it looks like he's pointing a gun at the sea monster but it does shape isn't quite right for a gun and when one reads the text of all did not happen for all our tigers some continued after the middle of the sixteenth century to to show creatures that is something more purely utilitarian rather than artistic creation and so yes in in the course of particularly the that came from what would have been called something like scientific sources at the time but then see monsters maps maps they'll say before the middle of the sixteenth century I think they're often was an attempt to convey scientific information show up on maps overtime yes and it's it's a rich subject so as I was saying on early Asian for compass points north but there was this huge vortex into which the wall of the earth's oceans were continually being sucked and that happens a little bit but not as a general pattern and so somehow maps began to be conceived purely as Nah and see monsters more purely decorative and that that chain first of all it did not happen once visit to show what was actually in living in the oceans that debate certainly also had a decorative function there's no denying that but but but at the same time I think it wasn't the case that the fantastic creatures began to be replaced with real fish us what people at the time would have regarded as scientific information around the middle of the sixteenth century once starts to see on maps ostrow if one blows trump trump and yells and makes a lot of noise as possible scare the sea monster away the same advice they give you for a bear cougar right. The scientific function of sea monsters the information conveying functioning Admiral History Information conveyance function of sea monsters starts to go away thought of in a different maps began to be thought of as more purely scientific instruments more modern sense of the word creatures are are totally conjured up out of nowhere by the map makers yes that's interesting interesting it's very interesting moment it there being a a sort of counter intuitive or inverted process that as scientific knowledge advances and we get a clearer picture of what animals are re right back with more of the interview can the weather predict you that's a good question the kind lexus answers by looking at people ever notice that sometimes your cold Alexis could adjust to you like that using sixteen infrared sensors to measure your body heat vehicle reacts to You with Twenty Air vents heated ventilated seats and a heated steering wheel to maintain your desired preference automatically. It's aware of your ever changing temperature maybe even before you are and not just for the but that see monsters I mean people began to understand that these fantastical creatures were not real easing ideas you'll inspire next at lexus dot com slash curiosity and we return we'll before we in the history of the history of sea creatures on car on maps it almost reminds me of a thing we've talked about another episode vice the instruments scientific instruments for for helping you get from point A. to Point B. in last as artistic creations it's it interests me what you're saying though about the show before about Increase in interest in like witchcraft in Dima -nology actually is sort of going up as as the enlightenment was coming around for it before it faded away that's a fascinating analogy all right time for a quick break but will be Amistad at the North Pole reserve a great vortex for smaller was a huge mountain of magnetic stone which was the see monsters they were merely invented by the cartographer as far as I or anyone else's been able to tell next minute you're hot that's because the body's temperature is always fluctuating and it's your brain that tells the body to constantly adjust for optimal temperature so what if the inside L. and what animals are not real there's actually for a short period an increase in the mythology right so you're saying that that's when like these new fanciful els being mistaken for islands so there was a mythical story that goes back to driver but all four passengers it's a system called climate concierge available in select models and it was all inspired by you so discover what Nineteenth Century sea monsters on maps declined which for someone writing a book about sea monsters on APPs this a little bit sad there's an island is actually a whale and when the whale feels this fire on its back it plunges into the ocean taking the sale maps several times and in different ways and what one of the one particularly is that he composed his map based on information from twenty other maps which is one of the few times we get some insight into in this case the whale is associated with the devil which is another type of monstrosity if you will so this story had a very long life it was the key says if I recall correctly he says he copied it from the Portuguese map so this story is not one we hear everyday how mass were created in the early eighteenth century and he illustrates this story so there's a ship with a whale and the two picks the Kraken as such shame it's a shame and it may be in part because it has the head of a bird in the trunk of elephant in the tales of fish things like that and when that starts to occur dealers on the back of the whale who've lit a fire and detects a nearby tells the story and So it's it's I I really confined my attention to maps and as far as I've been able to find there's no early map that but but is part of the historical process and it relates exactly to to what you're you're talking about this relationship between sea monsters and science we'll find very wind diffusion and it's The story is illustrated not only in best series and various other sources but also on about sailors who what they think is an island and they they land on the island and light a fire on it but it turns out that the island four we surrender sea monsters to the onslaught of realism maybe we can go back and talk about a couple more of them Do you WanNa talk a little bit about the idea of worked called a physiologist very early medieval work that contains the story in the physical August is a collection of stories medieval navigational charts from Scandinavia and so one might be tempted to imagine that they are the crack might have been depicted on such a chart but for information from damaged manuscripts books and maps and one of her projects was to us the Lazarus project and archive so two different groups and we use a technology called multi spectral imaging to recover such charts do not survive now let's see I do remember it coming up somehow in your book I guess it was a reference to the king's mirror was that a so I I work with the group at the University of Rochester and Rochester Institute of Technology Fifties and was sold and anonymously donated to Yale tennis importance was recognized but at the same time it was worth who's now at the University of Rochester and we we worked together two images it sounds familiar when we do hear it I think but it is something important in looking at images of Wales on early maps speaking of c about animals and stones plants each of them I've given a moral interpretation and so in this zeal August has the story assist technology on a important world map made in about fourteen ninety one by a German cartographer who was working in Florence and late last year I published a book based on this research and when we generated these images of the map I approach this map with his or her own questions and write his or her own book or article about other aspects of the map that I never thought about so we I wish it and the the moral ization is that if one places trust in the devil one will be carried to hell so the mm-hmm adapted from logs and incorporated into medieval best areas medieval animal books and and had a I am not recalling the details so I think the name Kraken appear on a map but it's the creature the creature depicted recently I know I believe this book we've been talking about was from twenty thirteen you've recently been working on something about imaging for damaged maps yes with the right object and in this case this map was a candidate for multispectral imaging is like magic of texts suddenly appears where on what we think of as the crack in so it's not the same when we think about the crack and I think we have and many of the images as well and thus turn what had been this unstoppable object into something that's study bowl in all its aspects and I used as a source for some other legend on a Scandinavian Map yes the cracking does appear in the extra kings mirror and the today it's been great talking to you thank you very much all right that wraps up today's episode but a big thanks named Rigas Martellus the large world map at Yale University and it it appeared in the late nineteen this map in two thousand fifteen and we were able to recover a grade of large proportion not all but almost all text on the map documents legible and accessible again which is very exciting that's fantastic all right well I think we have to call it there but thank you so much for joining us from stances that led to to invention such as escape coffins escape hatch coffins we've been talking about all month as well as coffins to prevent grave robbery blow your mind dot com In the meantime if you want to get in touch with us of course stuff to blow your mind dot com is the mother ship you can check out all of our podcasts there feeling illustration of it on a map is on a map by PD dice was Turkish admiral and on his map he has along text in which he we bring the stuff to blow your mind spin to it we tried to explore the things we made and how they made us the influences inventions on human culture and history and the the theft of bodies by the resurrection men who worked for the anatomist of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries that's been a lot of fun so if you haven't checked out invention yeah we we don't have any medieval Scandinavian map salts not quite true we don't have we don't have any put any the map with my questions but one of the exciting things about the project is it all the images will be

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