BTM129: Systematically Grow Your Portfolio Using Banks with Anton Ivanov


This is Darriel AALIYAH and you're listening to the for the millions podcast episode one twenty nine Ray to be the master architect of your life. Are you ready to design your business and invest in needs that create the lifestyle. You've always dreamt up. Are you ready to learn from entrepreneurs and millionaires who have achieved certain level of success. Hey this is Derek Location Independent entrepreneur and you're listening to before the millions podcast Gina Lofton. I am an investor and you're listening to field the before the millions podcast hey there my name is heather haven would marketing coach and global entrepreneur and you are listening to the before the millions begins podcast. Hey this is mark with the host of the seven minute meant podcast global entrepreneur and all round Geek and you are listening to the before the millions podcast. I am MC lobster the cash linenger and you're listening to before the millions cost. You're listening to the before the millions podcast a whether you're looking to invest were cashflow all built an online business that allows you to be location independent. You've come to the right place Mr Hollywood and so presents the before the millions and now your host d'auray o'malley. What did you be. Tm tribe. We're we're back for another episode. Another installment of the before the millions podcast on today's episode we are speaking with Mr Anton Ivanov Antanas a real estate investor with over forty units and before. I get to Anton story where we're going to speak about today. I was just thinking this morning. I was just like man like putting a really really hard past couple holidays and I'm teetering on seventeen eighteen hour workdays right now when I remember back when I was in corporate America back when I had a fulltime job back when I wasn't a full time entrepreneur I remember I still remember it. Wasn't that long ago. So of course I remember but I still remember that I used to do for five six. AM podcasts calls and those six am podcast calls would really be pushing it because if they lasted forty five minutes. I had some rush to get ready for work. I was in such an uncomfortable position. I was going cleaned from AIRBNB AIRBNB. I was staying on couches. I wasn't the most uncomfortable situation and I just remember put in the work every single morning to produce a quality podcast so that could eventually create this educational platform. I remember when I got off work putting in the work to find more deals to find more property. That was my schedule for work. I would focus on educational platform and after work I would focus on appointments with realtors that I had lined up for the day walk-throughs inspections coffees. I mean I so basically probably from like six thirty to maybe about eight thirty nine. I would focus on those things I would get home and start analyzing deals. Are we get home in our our response response while the emails. I would send off emails. Go back and edit that those podcasts episodes from that morning I would start to build a platform. I did all that up until one two three. Am Sometimes uh-huh similar how when I was working for big four accounting firms so my schedule never changed but now a lot of that time was focused on me and my business and when I was growing added that day in and day out and I would get close to eighteen. Maybe even nineteen hour days. I would get no sleep. I won't work out for weeks on end and all that while I was fully consumed take time intensive relationship but I was determined guys. I was determined twist scape the rat race to leave my w. Two Day job today's guest Anton. He set to do that here shortly. He's just built up his passive income to twelve thousand dollars a month and he's getting ready to leave his day job and this is story his investment income Tom and also through his business because he has an APP called the deal check APP and that APP caters to now over one hundred thousand users so similar to me as I was exiting my w today job he has two different platforms has a platform grows investment portfolio and he has a platform to help other people analyze deals to provide a service for people so we're going to dive into both aspects of his entrepreneurial journey but what's really interesting about how he built up. His investment portfolio is that he actually went the traditional additional route. I'm used to getting on with a ton of creating financing techniques similar to me now ultimately Anton Wendy traditional route and I don't hear hear about a whole lot of people who go the traditional although it's called the traditional route but he believes that many people look into creative financing look into some creative strategies way too early early and way too often. He believes that you should go the traditional route if you can so that brings me to my next question well can you do. You have the credit score. Do you have the debt to income ratio. Are you going to be able to hustle to find the right lender for you. If fifty lenders say no that they can't do something. Are you going to keep going going to find that fifty first lender there are certain things that need to be in place for you to pursue a strategy beddis quote unquote traditional so for the past few years. I've had a ton of people ask me how who I get started in real estate and I'm so happy that I finally have a resource to help any. Everybody get started and it's actually a guide to help you get started. It's an assessment. I can't wait to talk about it. Actually the crux of next week's episode so definitely Tony But this assessment is going to have you jot down a few key things about your life and it's going to have you think about a few key things about your future and then it's going to match you up with the perfect real estate vehicle for you to move forward with and the perfect real estate strategy do not miss next week's episode so again. Anton went the traditional route and if you can go the traditional route if that's in your wheelhouse with the resources is that you have the time and the capital in this episode is definitely for you if you want to work with banks if you're able to work with banks right. I know a lot of people who maybe they don't have credit score for who maybe don't have the income ratio and everybody has their own nuance and all people who hate working with investors. They'd rather work with banks. I know people working with the master's and banks they'd rather work with sellers right but the key here is to learn about these strategies on my podcast on other podcasts and and figure out what works for you now again the way we've been going about figuring out what works for us as a way that I necessarily don't believe in an I don't accept that's where I'm coming out with my assessment next week so that if you're meant to be a multifamily syndicator your assessment will reveal that if you're meant to be fixed flipper your assessment were real that if you're meant to buy single family homes your assessment were real bad but what I like about Anton Stories. He didn't just stop it investment. He thought about how he could add value to the marketplace. He thought about what the marketplace was missing as he was buying up his investments estimates similar to me. I thought about what I could provide to the marketplace. How could I create a platform to help other people do what it is that they want to do way back. When I created an educational educational platform Anton created a NAP has APP is called deal check. We're going to talk a lot about his APP and why he built this app what this really does and how it's going to help your realistic estate system become a more robust system. Anton and his wife were literally gearing up to leave their W. Two day job because of their businesses and we're GONNA get into all of that here in in the next few minutes to raise of the week so one of our major themes going into the holiday season and when I say our our not only my business on my platform but my clients and my mastermind members especially my mastermind members so if you guys cater to clients buyers sellers investors you WANNA look forager most profitable quarter not the quarter where you slack and business takes decline now what we WANNA do in this quarter. Stay top of mind to our potential customers or potential clients too to potential sellers and one of the ways that we do this. This is through gratitude and appreciation so if you've done business with somebody in the past year or on the flip side of that if you've done business with somebody haven't communicated with them in the past year now maybe a good time and they just pop in and say hello but even better destroy a random gift off or mail a random gift off. Let them know that you're thinking about them that you care so you guys know that. I'm big into automation and I'm big into saving a ton of time and being efficient so if I could find a way to be thoughtful to be creative and not to have to put in a whole lot of man hours then I'm gonNA find a way to do so so I have a few APPS or a few websites to recommend for you guys on today's tip of the week now in the past and I still do this actually to this day order stuff whether it's on Amazon or go pick something up from a store then I go to hallmark or go to another store and I get a card when I get home. I write out what I want to say. Then I gotta go to Fedex ship off the gift shop off the car together. Then I get home tracking number I input into Fedex and I uploaded so that I can be notified when the packages delivered so there's a whole lot goes into gift giving. There's a whole lot of time. There's a whole lot of effort. That's involved and I have some clients. I work with that of probably received around seven or eight books for me at this point now. This doesn't happen when everybody but if I know a client is struggling as in a specific area or somebody you use a pick me up then. It's something something that I'm urged to do but again. Being thoughtful can be very time incentive so if you're wanting to end the quarter with a bank and you're wanting to stay on top of mind to your existing network to your potential sellers to your potential buyers to your potential clients to your potential investors to potential Oh partnerships heck even for family especially for family right to those relationships that you want to strengthen don't have have to wait until Christmas. You can show them that. You care now. It's actually going to mean that much more because you thought about them. It's a random gift not a holiday gift so there's an APP APP called hand written dot com like us. That would be a website but there's also an APP version. It's called handwritten written in spelled w. r. y. t. t. e. m. and this APP allows you to write handwritten cards with a machine so it's seamless and simple and I'm just gearing up to send out a few as we speak but they have a ton of options and there's this. There's this handwritten machine uses an an actual pen to write out your message and the results once you see if you guys go to the site. The results are virtually indistinguishable from an actual handwritten card. So the machine writes the card you create your custom design and you can even attach gift cards from your favorite brands to the handwritten card. There's a lot of people that you want to send this to. You can do an easy bulk import guys. It's all seamless. It's over at handwritten dot com. I am not an affiliate. I'm not a sponsor. I just love good apps. I love efficiency now. There was actually another company for their service that I was going to recommend they actually wealth the cards by hand by a human but that company I recently found out when out of business and I can probably understand why but anyways handwritten dot com and make sure cards that much more personable okay cool so those cards and gift cards but what about actual gifts right what about like if you want to send out a personal gift to somebody but you didn't want to go through the trouble that I go through to where I sip something into me pay for shipping and then figure out how to get a card and then also figure out once I get the card how to get to Fedex and all this stuff done in a hectic workday well. There's another APP. It's called gift the Graham G. I. F. A. G. R. A. M. Gift a gram and this APP allows you to send custom gifts gifts so for instance. I want to send a wine gift box to one of my clients instead of it just being any generic alwine gift box. I find are an amazing lying box at I find I'm. I'm given the ability to customize this gift box to choose my glasses to choose the exact wine bottle that I want. I could even in gravy now. I've received some some amazing gives him a pass and I will say by far. Some of my most amazing gifts have been gifts that came with engravings on there so you're able to gift I give and make it as personal as possible and you don't have to ever touched the physical product guys holiday season now is not the time the slack now is the time to put ten times the effort in your business while everybody else's fallen asleep at the wheel you could be dominating this quarter on a lot out of that starts with stains hop of mine and building key invaluable relationships. PS If you have any recommendations for a book service that does a similar similar thing than email me. I'm all ears so there's your tip of the week for this week now. Let's get to the show and now your feature presentation Manson Anton. How's it going today going great. It's it's good to be here yeah man. I'm super excited anti-abuse. How you say your last name it's Ivan off. Did you grow up in Russia. I grew up there. Actually I I was born. They're born in Moscow there until I was fourteen fifteen so so like high school age and then my family most to San Diego California Nice. What was what was that transition for you? Remember it was not good. I I do remember that. It was kind of you know I. I was pretty popular. in in my school in Russia had a lot of friends. You know just like everything about it. Then we came here I had no friends barely spoke English so stuff. I think it was a good thing overall. I'm definitely happy for my family for for moving us here in providing the opportunities that America offers but man like as a fourteen eighteen fifteen year old kid is it was not it was not good. I trust me. I can imagine that's a major major lifestyle transition for us. I mean what what was license and Diego you go. When you did move like what was what was high school I can. What did you would you. Would you do after high school. it's not say high school for me was fairly average I guess it's it's GonNa live on the suburbs i. I was very shy. when I moved to yourself a little socially awkward but I I made it is studied. I had pretty good grades. I'm very grateful for everything. My Family Kinda provided US and then you know after high sooner you no. I'd say they're very hard working but kinda more straightforward. Just just get a good education get a job so they had good careers careers. is that so so real quick on track to leave. You're going down the did you believe that you you were going to follow third vice. You're going to get a good job. was kind of you always had planned or you would hear those things had a different kind of like what was your mind time. United States that is very very standard advice that you hear kind of looking at my parents. I won't say that ad that age and kind of in high school I really had any enterpreneur driving me to be honest I did kind of envision myself that you know. I'm going to graduate. go college. Hopefully them get a job. it was don until you know sometime later that actually started looking at my financial situation and you know retirement and went. I wanted to retire that. I started realizing realizing that maybe getting a job and doing this. More traditional is not the right path for me back in high school. I don't think that's when it really started. Got It for me. Do you remember a particular instance or particular situation or scenario or story. When you see something where you at work with something with your parents were just like Yeah Geno. This plan doesn't make any sense. Ni- I remember exactly I was so after high school I actually you know I didn't end up going to college joined the US US Navy believe it or not full-time so I enlisted in the military joined the navy and and they sent me to Japan on the ship out there on worship and you know it was it was kind of it seemed like a good choice of the time I have no regrets about. It's probably not the most traditional path that that people people follow but I felt like it would kind of give me the discipline some direction that I was lacking in life Ghana coming back to what you said after being in the navy for a couple years that's when I actually started realizing that I don't want to work for forty you know thirty forty years and and mainly that came around in the military there are a lot of career military folks out there so people who've been in for ten fifteen twenty years they kind of you know stand a and for at least twenty and then retire. I had nothing against them. You know they were great. People but that was kind of my wakeup call so to speak I guess you can and say I was just looted their lives and I looked at my life and I thought to myself Dr Really Want to you know spend the next thirty years or twenty years just just working away for what wasn't a very great retirement. Check you know you can retire from the military and a lot of people do it successful zestful. You'll get your medical benefits. You'll get some retirement money but it's not like you know. You're going to be a millionaire. It's not like you're going to be living a nice lifestyle most likely likely in I- relooked at my life and that was kind of the beginning of when I started to make a decision like hey this is not this is not what I WanNa do this twenty thirty years of working and hopefully you'll have a retirement coming in is is just not for me so so walk me up until your first first property walked me up until walk right through. Maybe some of the things that you tried. They may be failed. Our Walk me through some of the things that you you consider doing a know. Your first property wasn't wasn't something that you saw out for right exactly. He walked me through no like you had this moment but at the same time and your first property wasn't a property that you went to go that you went to go seek now between that moment in that first property. What were some of the things that were a transparent where with some things that you're planning or things that you were doing? Yes so after I kinda start realizing that hey I need to do something different. you know the Navy's pay my bills does but I really want to accelerate by retirement and kind of take it more into my control so to speak. I spend the next probably a year and a half two years reading a lot of personal finance books and not necessarily books on entrepreneurship. I still bagged then. Wasn't you know what kind of looking at myself as as a business owner but I did get into investing so I you know I I start having a budget I start saving a lot of money almost all of my a salary bag then because basically housing and all my expenses repay Sarli focused on kind of those personal finance basics like having an emergency fund having savings having a budget and then I started at my 401k my Ira Star putting a lot of money aside and just equities at that point you know and I think that really helped me in the long term by establishing a really good personal finance foundation on investing foundation not necessarily real estate but just investing in general and kind of set me on the Ripe Fab because I think in a lot of folks that I made that are new. They're trying to get into real estate or they're trying to even get into enterpreneurship one thing. I always noticed that some of them they they lack a good kind of financial foundation so to speak in and I just think not having that makes both real estate running a business much more difficult because they're financially. Ashley risky endeavors. you know you might have expenses you might lose money and kind of if you don't have a good financial foundation to support you do in what you're doing and kind of full-back on it you know it's it's not setting stuff up for failure but is definitely not like setting yourself up for success in my opinion so I really focused on that on investing budgeting saving and kind of going into what happened with my first US rental property basically when I was still in the navy about eight years ago both of my parents passed away unfortunately there were young was due to some medical issues but they owned a condo in San Diego were were they lived and that basically became my first Ronald proper just out of the blue to be honest I I wasn't planning on on them passing away. Obviously and I wasn't even looking to invest in real estate at the time again. I was going to focus more on equities equities and now a station in Japan so it's like you know here. I have this condo in San Diego. I don't know anything about buying real estate managing a real estate like what am I doing here. I talked to a few Alma sold it actually so wh when Donald was going on you know I had a local lawyer here in San India who was helping within all of that and and I was like this close to saying you know what let's just sell this property get whatever money I could because I I don't know if I can deal with and I don't know if it was a single event or a person that I talked. I think probably a combination that just said hey. You know what why don't you just not make any drastic decisions and just keep that property. you know find a property manager. Get it rented you know have the manage the property remotely full oriented and and then just you were a goes. Maybe you come back to the states after your touring Japan and and that is what I did so that's basically how I became. I like to San accidental landlord on under someone fortunate the circumstances but that was my first foray into real estate. I guess I am sorry for your Lawson it it. It's one of those. It's one of those situations where you know on the with your investor had on in you know hindsight is twenty twenty you learning all the things as you've learned over the years and you like reflecting back on that moment. Annoyance athletes have state that you were in just just to just to give some strategies the listeners for a minute in it and not to be insensitive but again. It's a learning moment for a lot of people by those people specifically target probate `less people specifically target exactly no vacant houses people people specifically targeted out of state owners right because there are a lot of these situations that you yourself yourself use the words. I just didn't want to deal with exactly I mean you already dealing with obviously the the death singer family old other financial stuff that comes around it and if if you never own real estate before it can be overwhelming. I I know that first hand and you know for some folks it may make sense to sell and GonNa deal with the property. I guess I just shows you know looking back. I think it was the right choice. I think maybe if I didn't keep the property into sold it who knows if I would have even went you know to this real estate route and everything that follow because you know kind of looking back. I actually still have the property and it's in California. It's not great cash flowing property in this isn't like a very high cash loy market it but over the years would that did is kind of opened my eyes to what real estate can do for you in terms of passive income a wealth generation kind of early retirement so so. I like to look at that you know property that I had and the fact that I kept is what really pushed me into real estate and and really kind of opened opened my eyes to that being a very viable investment vehicle in addition to equities that I had at the time for sure for sure so what was the next for you for for you Anton because this was roughly about eight years ago. When did you take a series like into real estate. And why did you decide to do in the spice yes so I you you know again. I I kept up property still had quite a few years left on my navy contract in Japan and honestly that was it for me for real estate for for a while so I was still gonNA serving my time out in Japan had this property was trickling in income ident- seriously do anything else would real estate until until about twenty thirteen and that was when I actually got out finished my six years in the navy moved back to San Diego with my wife and and we kind of settled settled down here more traditional career you know we we got normal jobs. and you know that point. I was is fairly sold on the whole idea of hey. I don't WanNa work for twenty years. I WANNA retire early and to do that. I needed to build a passive income stream or or at least you know an income stream that was not tied to like a nine to five job so I had a my equity portfolio going which was growing slowly but you know the returns turns on that are not like astronomical or not you know nothing that will kinda make you multimillionaire in just a few years but but I had this property I had. I had this condo. That was generating consistent. Passive income was Jenner was appreciating in value and I was like hey you know what why don't we give this real estate a kind of a bigger try to talk to my wife about it. She was on board and that's one we kinda started building our portfolio more aggressively. D- very soon after we moved back to San Diego we bought a duplex adhere with with the VA with the low down on payment loan that we did the whole house hacking thing with so we moved into one of the units which allowed us to use the owner financing terms which are much better than kind of investor financing we fixed up both of the units and then eventually when without rented them out and that became our first property and from then then we really just kept going and going for the last four years building our portfolio all the way to the forty units though we have now so after the duplex ear we started looking out of state because the returns in California like I mentioned are pretty subpar. Cash flow is is fairly low. and the properties are so expensive you know and one thing that me and my wife did is we didn't really have any partners partners we didn't have any kind of a lot of contacts on the Real Estate Industry Wilson have like but loads of money right we were very frugal Bruegel where we had good jobs and we saved a lot of money but it was still like not enough for us to scale in California. We felt so that's what pushed us to look out of state. and a twenty fourteen fifteen we bought four turnkey properties in Atlanta and Birmingham so you're not familiar with turnkey. Keep properties company takes a you know rundown unit rehabs it. you know bring to a nice condition puts the tenant and then sells it to the investor they get a lot of bad rap. you know because there are lot of dishonest shady turnkey providers so you can get a pretty crappy deal to be honest if you're not careful but I feel like if you look at the market your research that research the neighborhood tour the property make sure everything's okay the Rehab so good way to get started out of state when you don't have a lot of connections or or time if you're full time fulltime job or or or Business Iran so we went to Turkey's. We still have them. I I have no regrets I'm buying in. They're doing great especially now. Since the rents went up the property values went up in we're really starting to see the cash flow trickling from those signs on real quick without a whole lot of capital without any any partners news without creative financing. Walk me through how you're taking down these deals so to be honest up to the point that I just described bribed up all of the money that we had for the down payments. We'll use conventional financing all these deals so these were twenty percent down on mortgages so we have to come up with a twenty percent so require. Let me let me let me let me let me create the time line real quick on top of everybody out there so you you have the first you have your first condo which was inherited from your parents and then you use us. I guess you caught it on our finances but you're you're using occupant financing right to where you're able to put down on a much lower down payment. I think you said you bought a duplex right so yeah immediately after that you're straight conventional all the way through for for. Yeah for the Turkey F AFC for the duplex would use a va loan it's a great program owner-occupied financing program that's available for military members or veterans percents and then there is an Fha loan which is very similar but that's available to all you know all people even if they didn't serve in the military those so those strategies are perfect for something like house hacking right. It's a common term if if you can find to four unit properties or residential multifamily family you don't have a lot of money to put down you can move into one of the units which will allow you to use these owner-occupied of financing strategies put down a low down downpayment and then you don't have to come up with a lot of money out of pocket so we did that on our first duplex because we were straight out of the military. We didn't have a lot lot of savings and like I mentioned the prices here in southern California are so expensive that there's no way we're gonNA come up with like twenty percent down payment but after after that you start you start saving money with your wife and you guys are consistently coming up with those twenty percent down payment yes so for the next four properties we looked again in. Atlanta and Birmingham Birmingham where the prices were much lower in Birmingham. We were buying properties for around fifty thousand a unit. You know a property in Atlanta. China was a little high like like eight thousand so they were cheaper properties much cheaper than we could find in San Diego and the twenty percent that we needed to buy Oh we could come up with out of our basically savings and that's Kinda me coming back to that whole personal finance foundation that I mentioned you aw this whole time with we got regular jobs after the military. you know we kind of focused on growing our careers so we did good work got raises. we have very frugal lifestyle. I think I went I look back and we had something like a sixty percents savings rate consistently all all through these years and that's what really drove our portfolio growth in these beginning stages it was you know taking our take home money that will save a were saving plus all the cash flow from the rental properties. You know we didn't go buy nice cars would then go upgrade our house in we didn't do any of those things we saved a lot of money honey and that's what really allowed us to grow you know and by those. I you know five six units would just using our own funds. I think a lot of people Franklin estimate you know that you know that Avenue you know pretty much. All of us have jobs a lot of have good incomes you know and I bet there is some money you can save tighten up your budget a little bit that will help you save these down payments a lot faster is just. I feel like a lot of people people don't even think of that. They immediately start looking at creative strategies or or or looking at partners while you know that could be an opportunity to start art saving money on your income from day one basically. I love that I love how you're able to take us totally polar approach from a lot of people so so the fact that you have that approach sugar so many people that resonated with that so my next question is from a lending point of view when or if it did starts coming difficult. When did it starts to become difficult did do you. Have you used the same lender all this time. Have you used a you have a wide array of lenders. How do you go about tackling that process so with the conventional loans ob buying the duplex on them buying a these turnkey properties we actually use the few different landers. I found that with the conventional lending so these are your Freddie any mortgages the thirty year fixed they're pretty much almost any bank will offer them so in actually chilly had a mortgage broker that I worked with an I kind of prefer that these are people who have instead of going to one bank filling out the application and seeing what they say you could go to a mortgage broker. Give them all of your financial information. You know fill in a questionnaire. They can send this to many many different banks and just find the best rate because it's such a commodity product. It's not very difficult to get a convention alone even on an investment property so I always you know encourage people either to find a mortgage broker they can shop around find you the best rate or even check with the banks or credit unions especially that you have an existing relationship with you know if you have a credit union account ask them if they do not honor occupy alone so loans on investment properties probably more than half of them will do that and they probably will give you a better rate because you're an existing client so I think conventional financing dancing you know up until kind of your debt to income ratio supports it in and if you're less than that there is a limit a after a while and we ran into to this little later in our real estate journey after a while it's it's much harder to get conventional loans wants you get above five and especially closer to ten loans total will banks will start shutting down and and on top of that you know they kind of look at your personal debt to income ratio so depending on how much other loan payments you have car payments how much your income is if you're approaching around forty five fifty percent debt to income ratio. You can have a hard hard time qualifying for these conventional loans but as long as you stay within that I I don't I am never found it too difficult to to find convention or lenders vessel so at the point where you're crushing threshold of five or ten depending on where it is for you specifically individually all of you out there but few Anton once you once you get that threshold. What are your options so That's kind of the world is they're always terms of creating financing after that. I I think the most to common options that I've seen our portfolio loans and commercial loans so both of them are gonNA nonstandard entered mortgages portfolio landers their private institutions. You know that they have their own capital to lend they can often land and on a on single properties or even groups of properties they can also give you a thirty year fixed loan but for example they can take five conventional attention all loans group under a single portfolio alone with the thirty year you know kind of fully amortize schedule and then free up those conventional loans is for you to use somewhere else so that's one great option. I did explored. I didn't find a portfolio under that. I liked that had you know 'cause because they are chartered to find what we ended up doing with my wife after kind of the turnkey properties in Atlanta and Birmingham we we still want it to grow our portfolio and we started looking multifamily properties just because we felt like they were easier to scale a UNESCO by one house at a time will could buy four blacks and that is for units and once we start looking at them I kind of establish a relational really good commercial broker that offer commercial financing commercial financing is usually very different terms that are typically shorter loans like five or ten years that could be amortize no more ties for twenty five or thirty but the loan payment is going to be do after the five or ten years. That's what's called the balloon payment but what I really really liked the bowed. Them is commercial lenders. Don't care about your personal debt to income ratio of your personal loan payments not none of that they actually look just at the property if the property cash flows if it meets their underwriting criteria than they will loan on it and that's the route that we went we transitioned into by multifamily multifamily properties specifically four places in Kansas City Missouri and we have our scale was going up soil so put the modern. LLC which means way for sure can get a conventional loan on them. commercial lenders have no problem lending to see so we started using commercial social financing lending to annul seek on a distancing ourselves from the properties for liability protection and that's actually what we've been using using for the last couple years on on about thirty three multifamily units that we bought in in Kansas City. All of these commercial loans are almost family so I'm because my next question was how small can these loans get and again. We know like once you meet the threshold of five or ten independent situation. You should start looking at some of these other financing techniques but can somebody so. I don't want them to consider my personal credit at all. Can I go ahead and just start out doing commercial loans. Can I do it on a single family home. How what's what's the threshold to start looking at commercial. I personally personal almost always recommend of people take advantage unconventional financing to the Max and the reason awesome for that is because yes it goes on your personal name but the term so the interest rates and the motivation periods will always be better. You're a with conventional financing is just much cheaper finance a you're not going to find you know a commercial loan with three some interest rate that you can get a a a conventional loan for nowadays. It's not going to have the interest rates are going to be you know one two percent higher just just from the start so I you know personally early and and for kind of other folks job to me I recommend using conventional financing to the Max which means led the lender tell you that they can't loan you anymore for and just because it's cheaper now commercial financing if you really want to go there if you're forced to go there generally it's reserved for a five plus unit properties or packages of properties. It is a lot more flexible also depends on the lender for example always able to find a lender who does land on two to four unit properties. you know that and that's how we bought a bunch of four plex would these commercial financing not every lender will do that and some of them will for example have minimum alone amounts. You know like maybe it's five hundred thousand so they want loan anything a lower than that. I have seen and I have met investors who use commercial financing on single family but it's usually packages so maybe they have you know attend property package that they're buying a ten single family homes and they'll get one commercial loan kind of on the whole package of for the LLC that that maybe owns the properties but again kind of in my experience commercial financing is is much more flexible. You really have to just find a lender a go directly to their loan officer their underwriting department and talk to them about your your situation you know show them what you're trying to do a what you're trying to buy and that they can help you find a solution. Maybe that you haven't even thought of like I said maybe do they can take your existing conventional mortgages package them together under one commercial loan or help you buy a multifamily with commercial or residential with with alone or You know kind of a combination of strategy so it's it's a lot more flexible but it is more expensive in terms of You know basically rates. You'RE GONNA pay a higher rate. you're. GonNa have a shorter term it's it's not as good as conventional financing so if you're just starting out buying single family homes especially. I would probably say the conventional is the way to go. I want to highlight a fifty thousand dollar deal that you do on average. What are you looking at. What are you. What are you expecting from that type of deal like. Let's just say you buy property. That's worth fifty thousand is now. What are what are you hoping to get out of that deal in the short term. What are you hoping to get out of the martyr so I personally I'd say my my number number. One goal would real estate since the beginning was cash flow I was most interested in real estate escanaba passive income generating investment and obviously for that. I need the cash flow. I frankly have not sold a single property that I bought yet and Dan. I'm not planning to the next few years because I'm more interested in just acquiring more units and building the cash flow for me. The you know the primary metrics tricks that I look at when I'm buying investment property our cash flow per unit per mountain cash on cash return which kind of to me signifies you know how good of a deal am I getting because obviously for every dollar in cash flow I WANNA pay the least amount of my own money out out of pocket and a higher higher cash on cash. Return is the better you're doing in that regard so those are the two primary metrics for me now with that being said Said you know there's a lot of kind of so-called high cash flowing markets in America where you can buy property for less than fifty thousand listen and the cash flow looks tremendous on on paper the problem with a lot of these markets that I've seen is that they're not doing. I'm good from a macroeconomic perspective meaning the economy and the city in the state that they're in is maybe declining population of stagnant or declining you. L. Jobs are are are declining or or just being stagnant. I've personally did not like those markets for the reason that I think that to be successful as buying hold investor even if you're investing for cash flow in the long term you WanNa see a both of value and rent growth in your a units meaning like if I buy a property you know today in its running for a thousand a month. I WanNa see that you know being fifteen hundred in the next five years ears or or whatever I don't WanNa see rent being the same because your expenses are going to continue to rise in property taxes are probably GonNa continue to rise you know in inflation. Inflation is a real thing so the thousand dollars today is not the same as a thousand dollars five years from now so I've kind of based on the research that I've done what I've personally seen. What I've I've talked to a lot of investors. Were many times more successful denies. you know you want to buy rental properties in markets that you'll we'll see appreciation and the pricing you'll see the ren growth and usually it's the macroeconomic factors in those cities like population economic and job growth that will drive that you know people are moving into the city because of available jobs that will need places to rant they will naturally increase the the rent amounts mounts so I focus a lot on those areas. you know when. I'm I going into the market I I look at its macroeconomic factors. It's economy. It's GonNa Population Statistics and I'm only going to invest in those markets you know still by cash flowing properties but you know but I'm willing I guess sacrifice a a little bit immediate cash flow but by the market that I know will appreciate and value and you know rent over time. I love that I love that so so with that fifty fifty thousand dollar example. What type of cash on cash or are you looking for? My minimum cash on cash is usually twelve to fifteen percent if most of my deals I can get fifteen or above if it's twelve percent or less. I'm I'm probably not going to consider it. Got You okay so to to this day Anton. Do you still have to have your fulltime date up. We are actually you know in the process of transitioning to to being a fulltime interpret. Moore's as awesome that is awesome. I love that and that is what we love to talk about on this show so so the goal back then because I wanna ask you about the goal with our super clear. The goal has always been cash flow because your immediate goal is to leave your day job become fulltime entrepreneurs and do this on a. I mean again when you have the cash. Will you have the flexibility you have the freedom I wanna I wanNA talk about your natural progression from the military to real estate it again. It's it's natural because of what you saw the military right. What the the experience you saw people who are twenty years ahead of you right? You Strike Bright. You started thinking about things that you should start planning for. You started thinking about where you could be twenty years or more. You didn't want to be so understand that progression. Where does that come in the action right so it was a very very kind of interesting situation so in in the military I had a a fairly technical job I was in electronics technician. Basically I worked on a computer systems data processing stuff like that when I got out of the Military Cheri I self taught myself software development and eventually got a fulltime job as a software engineer at start up here in San Diego so I had the kind of education I was always a very technical person and that's kind of always interested me so I had the software development background. That's what I did fulltime up my job and I was also doing this real estate thing on the side and right around two thousand fifteen two thousand sixteen. I remember I was very aggressive looking at a lot of properties in a lot of different markets and an you guys all know analyzing ising of investment properties is basically one of the key things during the purchase process. You know if you're buying rental properties you have to look at the cash flow projections your returns your cash on cash Capri. Are Y all that you have to you know analyze different acquisition strategies to see how they will affect your returns and then and if you're flipping same thing you have to look at what your prophet is going to be. What you're IRO is going to be before you buy the deal. So you know you've heard the saying make take the money in real estate when you buy and you have to run your cash flow in and Prophet analysis traditionally a lot of investors investors use excel spreadsheets for that and that's how I started. I had some excel spreadsheet that I think I downloaded. Some website modified a little bit and that's what I was using. What I was running into his it was just a spreadsheet. You can do it on your phone. I had like a million of them. Because every time I WANNA analyze new property I was copping you know one spreadsheet is just became a mess to manage. and I just thought look there's there's gotta be a better solution for specifically analyzing you know rental properties flips other deals quickly and I looked around what was available on the APP Store Mobile Online and actually didn't find anything that I like so you know I I had this just kind of I guess urgent and in creat- creative moment so to speak to to say hey. Why don't I build a Why don't I build a kind of a simple a mobile APP to start to help me analyze deals and and that was my first foray into I guess enterpreneurship planet. It was an I probably did all the wrong ways. You know if you if you read the business his books they say you know develop a business plan. Do the market research. you know build them. Minimum viable product tested with the target audience I didn't do any of that just just to be completely honest with you. I built a deal checks deal. Check is is kind of the property analysis platform that that I'm transitioning running fulltime. I I built that in my spare time just as a hobby project and really didn't even think about about other people using it. I just wanted to use it myself. but what happen is a bill the first version. I had the release to the APP store so I don't roll all my phone and I showed it to just a few investors a few agents that I knew just some friends and family and and they loved it even though it was it was Kinda crappy at the the beginning of Noggin Elias. That's wasn't Polish had had bugs all that thing they liked. It and you know I was like well. Hey maybe this is my. I kind of validation so to speak that didn't really do but you know if ten people that I know like it may be a hundred thousand more will like it so that's that's gotta deal check. That's how it started. It started as a as a side project as a hobby project that I didn't intend to really you know get the scale and popularity celerity that it has today what what didn't you like about some of the other analyzers that you saw in the market before you even decided to to begin on this journey like what were some one of the things that you're looking for that you include now in your software. There is like like I couldn't find this. This is what I wanted to do and I wasn't able to lower some of those things that were frustrating you well frankly back then and you know in two thousand fifteen when I was looking at it kind of the quality of a lot of the APPS was very subpar. There was a couple of APPs out there on mobile wild wild. You could use to analyze properties but you know when you download them. They just have that old feel to them. kind of clunky you. I hard to figure route would button to click like not very optimized so that was obviously the kind of the first thing I noticed that being software developer myself I was like there's got to be a alot more polished products so people actually can use a quickly like using it so so I really made a focus with deal. Check from the beginning to have a great eight user friendly you why another thing that I didn't like the deal check now. Includes is is cloud stink Kinda back then in two thousand fifteen. I guess maybe a little earlier was went. Cloud sync was really coming out. You know this is like I can use a Napa my phone Maybe like a note taking APP. I take some some notes on my phone that I get on my computer. Oh my notes or they are. I can continue right so it's Kinda like seamless workflow cross devices I don't think any product had that a a analysis of the point and you know deal check. I build that in from the get go see can use deal. Check on your device wise. You can use it on your android phone. You can use it online and Kinda start analyzing our property if you're driving around which I actually did myself in a war great a you know. Maybe you're attending an open house or you're just driving for dollars or you're scouting the neighborhood. You can run you can start your cash flow analysis on the property ride there on your phone then come back to your office to your home computer. pull up that same property on your computer. You know make adjustments run alternative scenarios. GonNa do a more deep dive into the property to see if you can make that deal work so that's definitely the second you know thing that I that I wanted you know modern property analysis application to have and probably the third one was just. I wanted a you know I want to develop. A solution was kind of all encompassing. you know basically what tools doesn't investor need when they're analyzing properties when they're looking at these prospective investments I wanted to build all the tools that you need for that in one application so you know would deal check obviously the property pity analysis the projections that comes standard. That's like the basic split. Nowadays deal check up supports things like property data import. You know instead of typing being in all of the property information manually just punch in the address and we'll pool in from property records inactive listings. You know the home description photos you you know all that information for you so you don't have to scour in ten different websites to find it. additionally we just actually recently released both volt sales an Randall cobs ride inside deal check you know so obviously one of the things that is obviously very hard with with properties a estimating automating their value so you know what is the V. of my property and beef. It's rental property. What is the potential rent. If you get those numbers wrong and in all of the analysis basically can hit a valid or psych imagine if you're doing a flip in estimated R. V. To be twenty percent higher than it is. You might lose all your profit outright so we build both sales and rental comps right inside deal checks you. Can you know go to your property. Pull up recent. Jason Sales comps that will show you you know every property that got sold. That's comparable. what is the average sale price would has gone up the you know the potential attention air view of the property you're analyzing based on its square footage and exact same thing for rental properties. What are the current rental listings What is their average listed assisted rent for the neighborhood you know what rent can you charge for your property. so sales rental calms you know we built an offer calculator to deal check so you know maybe you analyze a property of it. It looks okay but maybe doesn't meet some of your criteria. So there's a process is commonly called reverse evaluation. We can actually work backwards from your criterion. Say I want a minimum cash on cash up twelve percent and I won at least two fifty cash flow flow per unit Vermont. What is the maximum price. I can pay right. That's how does the basics of our offers are made so deal comes with a calculator. The you can punch in over a dozen different criteria saying this is my minimum criteria now show me prize for this property that I can offer and in no if it's if it's reasonable if if it's not too much below the asking price than than that could be your starved for the negotiations with the seller and things like you know pedia report so obviously as Lee you analyze a property Maybe we want to send this. Maybe you have clients that. You're working with like if you're an agent or if you have arturs that you're buying these properties as with all your land or wants to see all of the information about a property can with one click deal allows you to export property reports with a you know very nicely formatted formatted. PD of the can download it said and seconds you know so that's kind of the third thing we just wanted to develop a host of features Najah. I just the basic property analysis that that helps investors kind of to have a one stop shop one solution one integrated tool for doing their entire kind of due diligence research process all the way up to helping them put in an offer. I love it. I love it and I was just growing through the site myself itself. It's a beautifully laid out design on. I'm I'm about to download the APP on my phone as well. I'M GONNA check it out. I just saw dancehall. Check it out and I want to use it for the next next at least give it a try. I think you offer a free thirty day trial on we have a link for that as well over before the millions dot com for slash. Anton and I I WANNA I WANNA give it to test. I think that this can be a powerful powerful machine not only for me but also from clients as well so we're. GonNa use destiny suggest you guys take our Anton hung up on his offer for thirty day trial all right before the millions dot com forward slash A. N. T. O. N. Actually as far as the pricing I wanted to mentioned deal. Check comes with actually a free tear up so a lot of these. You know a lot of applications a lot of software in real estate. You GotTa Pay Upfront. You know if you don't pay you. Don't get anything I you know I realized being an investor myself and from the beginning that it's it's tough you know you gotta pay obviously initially for the property and then all these software are charging fees so it may be hard to swallow is a new investor with all these costs would deal check. We actually have a free to your sure. It does have it does come with some restrictions on some of them. Were advanced. Analysis tools are are not available with but it is a fully functional product that you can use for free on your phone online. You know forever no credit card. Nothing required so If you're just starting out you're just analyzing a few properties you know all week don't need a lot of the more complex functionality than just give it a try for free you know and and if you like it you can always upgrade to one of lar- pay plans which we have several pricing options with monthly and yearly payments and we do have a Promo Code. It's bt M twenty five so specifically for you guys if you enter BTM twenty five at check out online. You'll get twenty five percent forever off of your subscription caption. If you do want to upgrade to one of those premium plants lifestyle designed acceleration. What is your favorite before the millions book look. I probably say it's Thinkin grow rich by Napoleon Hill It's it's. It's not real estate focus. It's it's not about buying lying property but it was one of the first books I read that Kinda really opened my eyes to the fact that if I want to achieve something I can do it. and all I just have to do is put in the work. set a goal put in the work work towards it and really anything's possible. It's you know will our life is is truly what we make it. I don't really believe that anybody a matter where they come from or were they grow up or or word did they live are kind of need to be restricted by their environment. I think we can overcome our challenges. you know and we can set them vicious goals and we can reach him if we believe in ourselves we work art and that book really puts that whole philosophy into perspective. What is your favorite favorite lifestyle design APP. This can be a business APP or tool. I would probably say it's it's evernote. it's a note taking. APP APP that I kind of take anywhere from me and if I have ideas you know questions. I need to organize something. I have my immediate. Goals might tasks. It goes right into that APP. I think it's the most used APP on. My phone is evernote. I Love I love. I Lama Big Fan of Evernote so great recommendation. What do you enjoy most about the way your lifestyle is currently designed. I'd say that this is still bill kind of I'm in the process of transitioning to that but it's really the fact that I'm able to quit my fulltime job in allow my wife to do the same at just over thirty I think you know some people do it earlier but but to us it's a remarkable achievement and kind of all the work that we put Gordon with our real estate we deal check and would being frugal living on our means I is about to pay off. I mean it's it's an awesome feeling when we know that you're not financially dependent on you know an employer paying your paycheck and you having to go to work every day and worrying about you know getting sick or or getting fired I love it. I love it congrats again. I'm super excited for you to embark on this new journey. I think it's going to be amazing and you're GONNA blow your business out of the water when you're fully on the other side so I can't wait What were the sacrifices that you knew you had to make before the millions to get to where you are today? I'd say the biggest one was the financial sacrifice and like I mentioned you know probably for the last decade or so both me and my wife we live very frugally and we focused on you know saving as much money not letting our lifestyle creep if we got a new job or got a new race so obviously Lina that that may that meant we couldn't engage in a lot of expensive hobbies are within drive. You know the latest car or or that sort of thing but to be honest. I think it's it's well worth I mean just because I didn't get a steak dinner every week. You know for the last decade I would do it again. If that meant that I could quit my job you know retire early and be financially free at at thirty thirty five years old who was essential to your growth before the millions and why it's it's a difficult question. I probably say that you you know if I had to name any any one person. It would be my mom. and it's you know she wasn't she wasn't into real estate. She it was not into interpreting worship but she was extremely hard working woman you know she. She sacrificed the law for for her kids. You know for me me and my sister for our family and you know if I remember anything about her is that she worked extremely hard. Every single day you you know without kind of asking for for help sometimes without expecting somebody else to pick up the slack. She was just extremely hard worker and and you know. I think I you know I hope that that I'm at least as hard working as she is and I really picked up those qualities from her and just learned and you know hey if anything determination and hard work will get you really far in life. I Love I love it. I love well sentiments. That's why do you think so. Many of us are stuck before the millions. Even though we have every intention of getting to the millions I'd say it's probably fear fear of the unknown fear of losing your stability. you know. I've got a metal a lot of folks who are who are comfortable in life but they wanna be somewhere else somewhere. They WANNA do more and it's really the fear of kind of leaving leaving that behind or or stepping into something they don't know that that's holding them back and it's very hard to overcome you know I've had the deal with this and several occasions myself so I know for an fear can be debilitating. It's it's very difficult. I kind of mentioned that earlier in the episode one thing that really so help me and my wife foray into real estate investing to foreign to interpret Noor ship is having a solid financial foundation. You know if you have something to fall back on. If you have kind of a stable base you know you're not living paycheck to paycheck. If you're you know if you have a good handle on your personal finances I really think that that it creates a good platform for you to make that leap into something more risky something you've never done before and Kinda. Give you the the confidence in your head that hey just to justify your fear like hey if I if I do fail at least have something to fall back on the ello winning amazing episode. I've learned so much from your noble listeners have as well. If you want to learn a little bit more about you connect with you. Just say hi. What can I do some some of that sure I actually give my email to all the podcast listeners Anton at deal check dot. Io So a N. T. O. N. ADD DEAL CHECK DOT I O. So if you want to reach out to me directly you have questions. You liked the episode. You know you want to check Audela. Check feel free to reach out to me. I read all of your emails and enter respond the Best I can so would love to hear from you awesome awesome again. Anton this has been a pleasure and we'll talk to you soon outstanding. Thank you for inviting me. I I had a great time

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