Patrick McEnroe on the Big Three and Longevity in Tennis
I'm here Trinity. Okay and he said he went to Trinity on account of McEnroe Family Scholarship. I don't think he knew <hes> you're brother's. Name started ernest okay now that you're here. I'll tell you a story which I had a business lunch right before. Wimbledon says Oh you cover tennis. Do you know for two or three in the country and tennis and then one year I put the freshman year. I played on the basketball. Team wasn't particularly good in basketball so as the freshman team so I had to go in <hes> we talk shop. We talk a little bit about <hes> state of the game had to get more. American kids involved in what it was like growing up McEnroe <hes> so here's Patrick the school I played basketball. I always played soccer all through high school as thin. John Yeah played on the high school team for years even while I was number thanks for coming down. That's the this is a good effort. I appreciate you have here are it's. It's impressive this media in twenty nineteen listen thanks to the Hudson you of course know Patrick as a former top thirty player number three in doubles as ever and a longtime E._S._p._N. broadcast tried boarding school for a little bit didn't like came back actually love Trinity. I went for four years. <hes> only had to commute one year from Queens. John Commuted for years. Oh he didn't know anything about this guy. I don't know your family had said you. You and your brothers were all very nice to him and I think there was a endowed scholarship. You know do the train. This was an hour commute. Each way got mugged on the weight of basketball practice one morning on Amsterdam Avenue like Ninety Third Street. I used to Zigzag from ninety six so <hes> good conversation coming up here with Patrick. <hes> then there's we're taping this after we spoke to to really make sure it was a good conversation but I can vouch for that. McEnroe and you assume this is someone who says <hes>. Oh Yeah I used to love Macaroni Borghi. I don't follow tennis anymore and we gotta do what we gotta do. It's <hes> changing times here but <hes> no thanks for <hes>. Thanks for coming in. I know what I thought I would pump you full of gas before we <hes> started the the that's a slap on the l. a. r. and then on the subway <hes> two and three trains ninety sixth street which I did for year and in fact my freshman year of high uh-huh Class Area then when my dad became a partner at Paul Weiss big law firm which he worked for his whole life they moved to the manor which is where we learned what he does with the day those were the days exactly and I don't know any of these foreign players names now right <hes> that's what I was bracing myself for it but he was not at all fan but he went to trinity the morning to practice before school so I had to get on the train at Pitch Black and whatever five forty five in the morning l. a. r. and take name really he knew you okay and he did not want me to use his name but he said it was okay if I told the story but he's <hes> eternally grateful and he said the splitter did you play no no this is up in Queens. You know which was sort of the end of Queens when it was really more like a long island kind of suburban little town but it was a nice you know middle upper class. Douglas called Douglas manner they used to live in flushing and when they first started when they first got married in an apartment and then on the other side of Northern Boulevard. was you know sort of a middle town that we lived in my dad <hes> had become a law <hes> an attorney and became a partner at his law firm that enabled my parents to move into the nice part of and we got into tennis because the Douglaston Club had five tennis courts and in the summertime you could pick one do like swimming or sailing or slash tennis channel ten is todd in studio guest today. Pat McEnroe has made his way down to lower Manhattan and spending time with us here on the banks entitled Private School Experience but also you guys grew up basically east of the tennis thing for the fans out there you're you grew up each of the tennis center and this is on the west side of Manhattan. I actually I went through high school and John went for four years are the brother mark one for two years because he had tried and Broadway to get to ninety first and Columbus. I was not pleased. That's <hes> which appoint out to you. First of all this. This is a this is a private school but you do not sound like <hes> this is entitled <hes> <hes> Dave Afterwards Yeah exactly when that was funny. We can talk about that later but yeah now you're <hes> but you're no seriously you're <hes> the macnamara family that enabled this gentleman who's now a titan in business to go to Trinity <hes> So <hes> kids at are academy yeah exactly <hes> when we made quite an impression on <hes> on trinity well even my brother's kids went there and <hes> I moved out of the city but who knows you went to though right or <hes> or tennis and John Believe it or not was eight or nine when he picked up tennis which is pretty old too late for to become a pro forget about number one and so that's so we got into tennis and <hes> no we should point out. John is step what seven years here seven seven years six and a half seven seven and a half in that wasn't long. You didn't have the five years while I was management consulting. Saying what am I doing yeah. I was there for a few years at <hes> C._B._S. Then when when things blew up and he became Super Grad etc but when I was fourteen most fourteen or fifteen played in the national clay courts in Knoxville Tennessee so yeah and I think I'll tell you this one quick story because it it did I was a little bit of a baby playing tennis kid which is not uncommon for any good junior player <music> until <hes> until I sort of went full time with E._S._P._N. But <hes> I feel like you really. I don't know if this was by accident or design. In Our world media world of tennis and etc.. I think I've earned my reputation by able to do multiple things over the years which I always into this camera person is stadium there right by the literally in the middle the court not doing anything no pictures so I'm waiting like six to no problem around sixteen or quarterfinal matchup like that and <hes> the photographer came out onto the court and they just let him walk right onto the court. There's no rules or anything Aligarh twelve thirteen fourteen year old and so John was actually you know he had his moments but he was basically pretty tame junior player until you know stuff happened at Wimbledon strive to do to deal to do more to do different <hes> roles so I think that <hes> all my experience <hes> has paid off. I wonder you know at times obviously as even as a player <hes> but I think certainly helped me get my opportunities in in TV and radio etc.. It certainly helped me get an opportunity and <hes> was inox Nashville Tennessee so I was a fairly highly rag national player and <hes> I was playing. It did impact me a bit in the way I sort of behaved on the on the tennis court <hes> I again. I'll reiterate <hes> Tennyson who was the longtime man C._B._S. He said wanted to try my brother so that was sort of my first foray into doing the U._S. Open when I worked for C._B._S. Doing amazing great uncertainty and so in Vitas passed away so suddenly <hes> they were looking for someone sort of replace him and I just started doing. I don't think people see you as John. McEnroe's younger brother per se. I think you've really I may may have been in the beginning. You may have imagined it was a benefit but also you need to surly. I mean you've you've managed to <hes>. That's a hell. That's a considerable shadow that you've managed to step out well it. It helped me along the way <hes> it was a burden doing some stuff for E._S._P._N. Because I'd come off a couple at a couple shoulder surgery so it was sort of dabbling in television so John recommended to Bob Moms Bach who now works with you guys. Actually he's just turned sixty long as you brought up John I will say one of the great upsets in tennis right. John McEnroe had a younger brother who carved the milk to come to the airports and stuff when people say you are you they see the last name and <hes> yeah so that's normal <hes> but I thank you for saying that I think in thirty first with E._S._p._N. and C._B._S. actually John recommended me to C._B._S. of the U._S. Open right after Vitas had suddenly die because Vitas was I wasn't as quick either but then <hes> you know that did sort of I did realize that I was being watched a lot more as a kid coming up as a junior so I think wonder I mean we we have to turn the send you a therapist's couch but temperamentally <hes>. I think most people would agree a little different different different yeah but that was even true growing. They're paying attention. You know you can't do of course yellow John and then we John and I always laugh about Al Gee. I wonder where John got his temper so <hes> <hes> so that but that did impact me as a junior player as a junior player and I had a little bit of a temper but I was more mild manner generally than John which is partly why wasn't as good as a player. ROMM second set him up five three all of a sudden. The other guy starts coming back start. Losing some points. Get frustrated so you know I take Iraq in slam it on the ground all of a sudden. I hear Click here. The Guy Taken Bunch of pictures you know making faces and all that so <hes> I win the match ended up winning the match and a tiebreak in the second carved out and identity firm sal people are literally like Oh. I always forget Patrick is John's. Younger brother was decent player. No but I'm not in tennis I mean I don't mean as a player necessarily second-set so move on to the next round and the next day come out. I'm standing dorms at Vanderbilt as state and the front page of the Tennessean. You know the big paper national so as the title Oh brother slamming and so my dad said you. You can't be like your brother because they're watching you and summer were whatever two weeks after Wimbledon Yep. What's your summer like. <hes> summer for me is <hes> working at the tennis academy the Mac John McEnroe. I think it's remarkable how I don't think people see you as anything other than Patrick McEnroe so that's good thank you <hes> so we are eighteen sensations winning majors even on the women's side like it used to be you know when Martina Hingis and no you're right winning majors fifteen and do the right thing right to help and the fact of the matter is that even in the in the women's game as regime in the men's game players playing longer and it's. It's not you know <hes>. It's unlikely that that's going to happen on a regular basis so I think for the long term protection of the player in the sport. I think it's good <hes> no five against the law so it's probably against the law probably but I think you know all sports have certain rules in age limits whether it's you know the college guy coming through the N._F._L. Sleep away camp. My wife's a singer. She's been quite busy performing so I went to Cape Cod with her. She had some shows there. She was in D._C. This past weekend in Washington d focus for <hes>. Most of our kids have big summer program too so but in the summer I have a little more leeway with my schedule's obviously family time on the my girls are all away at sleep. Say A so we sort of juggle you know I go up to see my twins at camp this weekend upstate New York and then bring them home and then the only <hes> really an amazing talent and worked around so she had to play qualities in D._C. Right so she got a couple of extra matches tournament is like thank goodness while they get great crowds. Uh Cocoa Goth is about an hour from taking the court right. What do we think of <hes> the some of the restrictions placed on her schedule. I figure okay madness of the U._S. Open thing Tuscany Little Tuscany over the <hes> over over kings island saying it's tough to top priority arguing. Is it in her case. You make an exception. Let her you know let let she doesn't have to play every week. She can play whatever twelve or fourteen I mean. They have all ATV responsibility. I have for the summer as do the Canadian Open in Canada. <hes> I usually do Cincinnati as well but we're family trip to Italy at the end of the summer before the in general I mean I think she's GonNa. She has to me. She has plenty of opportunities. I mean you could if let me tell you one thing if my dad were here who was the ultimate like you know personal failed to get into the N._F._L. So I think in general you can work around you know cocoa. Gov is GONNA work around. She seems like she has great parents. That are supportive of her. She's obviously an <unk> freedom and daddy checking total libertar- like he's to argue with is to argue with him about the A._T._p. How could they make the players play x number of tournaments. This is against out on the weekend. She wins a couple of matches. She's in the tournament. It's all good so to me. It's not even it's not it's not really worth going down this road of great sort of pulse of the tests fan right so <hes> here are some of the things they they're asking these days you you have at it to one of them. Were what's Today. Tuesday <hes> a father of a daughter as well you envision. You know sort of hard not to think about your own kid in that position. You know so you don't want gene that he can basically put the ball exactly where he wanted but he does. You know federal little unpredictable which is partly what makes him so great to watch an end. I'm doing now <hes> so Novak Djokovic. What does he do so well kind that one in a different numbers producer well you does is he plays like the ultimate percentage tennis so like if you if you see him shots coming to joke of it. I could predict before he hits it ninety <hes> so. I figure you know what I get bombarded with. These tennis questions and there is whenever it's great. It's especially on your mail. Your it's Great Andy Eight Times out of one hundred where he's going to hit the next ball because he's like. He's like a machine but he has such unbelievable. <hes> movement. Skills Flexibility Timeline ECHINACEA tennis academy here at Randall's island so I I don't I'm not as present in the summer there as I am all year actually there are a lot during sort of our school year which is our main so explosive and it's also what kind of hurt him in the Wimbledon final as because he knew he had to play that unpredictable tennis and when it got down to like the crunch time in not get the food. You know it's tough you got. <hes> got applebee's tournament though for that reason. I always say that it's great to see these players removed from comfort. Do you know it's easy to explain fatter right. It's pathetic tennis and just watch him and you can see razor explained yoga dolls dot the right. I think it's easier to explain Jovic because he does all these sorts of <hes> variable. That's the thing so she can't p people right. I mean she still plays not banned from play and she's just you know I think the W._G._N. China you know trying its own and totally like London and Paris all right Seattle. Lopez is walking through the cracker barrel parking lot <hes> he doesn't give up as much court as Andy Murray as an adult does on quicker court <hes> so to me is almost like the perfect perfectly structured tiebreaks that was to ended up being too high risk at those moments because Jovic is so solid his balls look a little more depth. He can pull you a little wider. I said that why did you say I said that because of what you just said it because I felt that if he could win this Wimbledon get to twenty one <hes> The New York Times Guy Ben Rothenberg posted something <hes> on twitter a couple of days after the Wimbledon final the comparison of matchpoint so well executed and he has all the the physical tools to be able to do it consistently and do it better than anyone else. Did you see that <hes> I think it was <hes> your buddy been trying to pull back at that point obviously but I I'm the comment I made was was right before. Federal was gonNA serve for the match and I said around inside in forehand approach to the fore hand corner didn't hit it quite as well but joke of it was in perfect position because he returns a little earlier his balances all control offense Joe. Montana is prime dink dink yeah. You can't stop exactly right so well executed it. hold off joke. If it's a little longer fine finally never done it beaten doubt and in a major right and because Ed and I actually said I can't believe I'm saying this but this feels like the biggest game of federal life really and I don't know why a single shot they hit has to be played with so much precision not perfect but precise because if they don't play it that well they're basically when you're commentating on the map so we came back from commercial and <hes> both my brother and I and Chris Ballard you know really point fedor against Murray when federal one right and then fedor against joke of it's forty thirty point right so it was really interesting because it the winches and a two major swing right now I got a lot of <hes> responds from my comic because you know at that stage of the match you know we try not to say anything. Shots was not quite as good and the movement and the court positioning of Djokovic was exponentially better knows a lot more than Murray then you know he was his once is better. He doesn't stumble after their turn and <hes> that's why the passing shot looked routine for him. Even though it was it was such a the final the way these guy right to me like watching the just the first set sitting there and watching it. I'm thinking to myself. These guys know that every showed two videos side by side was the exact same point. It was the same point. The difference was the execution federal two tennis-player his movement his technique his decision making you know when he's on basically he can just control. It's like a it's like a ball which seems unlikely based on the way he plays just because there's so much movement based and precision based right but I mean look fedor has been able to do it and obviously joke if it's just as good of an athlete as veteran and takes care of himself in the same way but <hes> to see federal play at that level at this age I mean just his balance was so much better. I didn't give up as much court. His positioning was better techniques a little better. It was kind of cool to see that difference because to me. That's sort of sums up why hi it's fit. It's nine wimbledons its job but also he won his first. Wimbledon in two thousand three right so that's a sixteen year gap so that would be if you WANNA play the longevity card that forty five but he just missed missed by two inch because hitting aces that game so you go from twenty one majors to fifteen versus twenty that's they're they're in big trouble on the neck shot and they can get away with that against pretty much any other wire playoff sense of tennis yeah so they just kind of elevated each other like. I'm watching fetters. Y Jovovich joking right. No it was it was the exact same type of point exact same forehand a served down the tee stretcher opponent to the to the middle and then run around no one's stopping joke of it except the Dow or fedor right in the next couple of years. Okay maybe right. I mean certainly there's no proof that anyone else's GonNa stop them from catching them in passing them and so to me. That was really interesting. I appeal to win Wimbledon for fetter at about to be thirty eight and do art right joke of it would have to win in twenty twenty four sixteen year gap eight Australia Israel which it against us to me one. That's all those things combined. That's why I said made that calms if he if he makes that I serve if he wins Wimbledon then it's twenty y y Shabbes approach and anyone you down matchpoint to exit easy to miss that shop well. We talked about last week. The other thing was that that was phenomenal to see. What do you somebody interesting point to me. They said if this is the first time finalist. It's like this is meal around at the crack of your I mean this is enters into the sliced. Just the right spot with just amount of spin low enough. He's GONNA GET COOKED NOT GONNA lose on the next shot but he's going to be on defense and it was just watching those two guys go at it is just an if you lose it to it already part of the story weekdays. Three guys are pick your adjective their incredible irving. It's a golden era. <hes> you wish there were a little more resistance by like that was like the everything was lined up for him to win that match and he didn't do it and he said you know. You have to have that mindset as a player that this is it. This is my he's. He's he's been able to last a long but still <hes> it's. It's still I mean I remember my brother said to me one time when he crushed afterwards but it's twenty versus twenty one if Jovic loses to match sixteen versus fifteen they said listen these guys. What's the pressure for these guys shot. I think that's what separates like a great champion like him from other players that just kind of <hes> well. If it's GonNa Happen it's GonNa Happen. There's something about these great players that it's like he he everyone panics. US media experts and former players go this could be at I mean this was his chance and he's just another match right and that's been partly the reason why left John. Never could brush that off because obviously Klay wasn't his best surface right so he knew that he knew it was women. He would have said it differently but he knew like lost and final years later. We talked about it one day. When you lost lendl French Open final which was his most devastating loss and I remember we went out because remind because even though fetters had these moments you'll match point of the U._s. Open when you would think God how could this Guy Sleep at night right and he comes back and he just kind of brushed and it and it was like he knew which is I think what differentiates him which is what makes these guys now to me. Seem it blows your I think that's partly why these guys can play such a high level. You know in these matches because they've done it so many times and it's not fetters always been able to sort of brush off the losses you but he to me. He hasn't learned how to like actually make things easier on himself and team same thing on a faster surface on clay. He's obviously awesome that they can. They can seize the moment but and yet <hes> in yet John Wimbledon valley four dominating Ziara of looking at like try to implement that in his game you know he can serve big as he didn't. London final indoors to three sets okay. I mean he's amazing ball-striker by the rest of the field <hes> so let me ask you if Sasha's verify called you this afternoon. I need a coach. What would you say well. I'm not I'm not so what do the French. Open was the one you know. He'll still say to this day. That's the match set you know that he that keeps them up at night. The I think part of the story like Oh this could this could be the last time we see him in Wimbledon. I mean who knew so who knew that five years later somehow you in retrospect you feel like he knew like somehow. It's is there in this boat race and that's fine but the guy who has pressure is the one who knows his whole legacy is GonNa rest on whether he wins this match or not yeah I mean I think there's some truth to that and I think that's the I was playing. Juniors junior doubles final against Boris Becker is Luke Jensen Trivia another good story related to that but I'll tell you this kid just as reluctant to do it. I Know Lendl did unbelievable job with Murray helped him in so many ways get over the Hump and you thought that would be a nice mix but I never saw point which was at Johns. I said the John that night because I'm a seventeen year old kid. I'm thinking Oh my brother's number. One in the world. You know dominated the whole rest of that year. You're going to have another heard federal go- Upton said you need to when you hit a big ball. You need to move up like you need to cut the cord off and so I don't know what lendl was doing not and maybe the kid back now now against ninety percent of the players. That's good enough right but the problem is like you're not you're not playing to be playing nine beaten ninety percent. If you WANNA be a champion you have to like develop even fedor at the Labor Cup. He went up because I was there. You know as a coach Johnson and and literally I heard this is you're going to the hall of fame. This is going to be your career epitaph like in the grand scheme of things. What's the disappointing loss for Federer. I'm sure he was crushed. Chance you know this is the year you can have plenty more chances. This was my chance. He said really this was this was my shop and I blew it. You know like it's now because we've done this for years. I mean when you lost in two rounds. You know whatever it was four or five years ago when he had the back problem and it was like winning you know we <hes> but when I watched that French Open final hours there in the crowd just watching and I'm like need for the Dow not only is he like this incredible physical specimen really wh- Adam interview what I say to him. Why do I watch them and I feel like he just gives up way too much court. I mean I and I he's. He's so far back. Sometimes you know set one ball up. Predict the next one is going to go. Take it early. He didn't do that like twelve years ago right but he's so he's adapted. He's adjusted. He's gotten better and so awesome and he can you know the top obviously is why he has been able to do what he's Manila in clay but like just watching him cut the cord off an adult Washington's or Klay in Serbia we had is ner is ner played singles and believe query played singles and both playing. You know pretty good level that point. Ashman gone five sets one was four and and I remember Jay Berger who is a coach was my assistant and we're like man if that guy could serve if that and I'm telling you the amount of pressure on Jovic from that crowd in Serbia was more it was like it was almost like violent like oh intensive. What's like the like like a few lost. I mean who knows what could have happened right. I mean that's like that's divide like you felt from the crowd so not only that but plus you I mean he was literally a little earlier but because he knew that he couldn't play as good a defense you know he wasn't a great defender. He wasn't explosive mover in the way the joke which is so ashes. You know it's still difficult for him. It's not as favourite surface <hes> he's still plays well on it and that's why I say Jovic is technically the moat be Jovic captain went to Serbia are played there. He was three in the world at that point and he was he was going to service ships so we were playing indoor literally double-faulting one to two times a game and and like you know our guys for them played pretty well or in the match you know. I think one match Oh he had to play that play a little bit bigger joke if it doesn't have to find the gyrations of Jovic career pretty wild two houses. I didn't the service yet so I mean who knows how good he could be and then he you know he cleaned that up. He figured that out right so he's gone through these different than he had the thing obviously and then two year to year sabbatical her up both sides of the hit his big forehand when he has time but he strikes a ball more efficiently than anybody. I've ever seen he's like Agassi hit. The ball bigger off both rich is is can do all those subtle little things with really no difference in his swing or his preparation not a big adjustment for and basically. I think Tony said basically it was a function of nerves than the doll sort of retreated to his comfort spot and right. Dave semi's yeah. There were all encouraging him. The ball is well and obviously nowhere near the athlete that Jovovich eight they got Andre hit a bigger ball in Durham. Laundry consistently had a bigger ball. Yes hit a bigger thumped. It could take it. The doll against Roger Right was apparently playing wake to Moya and this this was something that Gus van grass yeah on grass and and the Dow. It's a big adjustment to move in to move way in obviously on clay. He can do whatever you want because there's so much juice on his ball. There's so much you know explosion off the court with his normal shot that I've never ever seen anything like that. That's why he's able to dominate on clay and he's improved those other things but you know jovovich strikes the ball cleaner. It was more the personal stuff that he just says mine just wasn't there <hes> and the way he plays he plays with a lot of precision and he plays you know if he's a little off as we saw and you know we can speculate on exactly but you know what his issues whatever they were personal and then he obviously had injury to the elbow so those things to me swings in any one. I've ever seen just pure boom strike the ball impact moment of impact could he hit bigger than Djokovic but he can't maneuver houses breakout two thousand eight Australian Open right and then retreats and remember Rodic and the bird flu in the basically the the book on him was push push ons in some of these matches you know he can miss a lot but that obviously is not happening now. I think it's people say well if a couple of match points here and there and Roger would have twenty four. I'm a little bit and he'll he'll cry. quit on you. He had some issues there. I mean definitely at that issue with his endurance with the heat and whatever was a diet fix that you know when I was Davis Cup captain was Roger and so as Jovovich and these guys you know they're not even it's almost like the distant. The gap has grown. What do you think that is. I mean the court. Positioning stuff is really interesting to me. I asked Robby Robby Robby Coding <hes>. I asked him the same question I mean just sort of step back and we we get out of our media chamber. Look at his record in the you know so the doll will go to year but he'd be injured. Final in right and rod has been pretty. Rogers had a couple of stretches but again he'd him to play up and he knew that was the game plan and he couldn't do it 'cause he was comforted on on clay. He'd be fine yeah probably on a slow hard court he probably be fine but grasses majors and I'm thinking a couple of little tinkers here and there right if Djokovic just as easy as you might be a twenty four already <hes> when you be in the months ago which wasn't a top twenty twenty one in the world when he went to Wimbledon right. I mean that's just he lost it mentally and you know the personal problems that he talked about over right. You like where the sports overall. I like the athleticism of the sport. I think that <hes> I think there's a lot of characters unfortunately not that. Many of them are American at the top the men's game so that's hurt us in this country. I think if you look at the global nature of the sport it's it's really healthy obviously look at the majors. I mean they just get bigger and bigger so corporate thing with John. We were talking a little bit about curious right and what do you do in the pressure's different if he's American and if he were from Tuscaloosa would it be completely different seen this year that it was just a final where it happened in singles anyway <hes> but I liked I liked twelve offer Wimbledon because I think especially for the men in in the final set you know crazy six hour matches with Nidal Jovovich invert Lasko. I think they've made adjustments with the conditions. The balls the speed of the court that have helped you know to me. Wimbledon like <hes> I think the the Wimbledon and the pay and the end of the U._S. Open's have an Australian Open. We saw those you dynamic sort of a are we past the point of we're never going to have what we had twenty five years ago right. We're never enough six of the top. Ten guys are using the slice a lot more to Boston to me. That's interesting because it shows you basically what to me. It shows is who has more skill who has twelve or fourteen national tournament. You will see a bunch of good white girls. You'll see African American girls you will see Indian girls. You will see Asian. It's not a great athlete. He's a great tennis player. Not a great athlete. Oh Pelaez so big that he's going to break down right but when you look at what they can bring to the table. I think it's pretty solid generalizing and you can nitpick it. If you want but generally speaking here's the problem you go to junior tournament in the girls for being able to do different things and move in a different way and I think that's healthy yeah. It's really fun to watch. I think you're okay with twelve. All I'm okay with it yeah. I thought it was interesting like to me. Wimbledon was different this year. The balls were stained unbelievably low. If you hit it short but the ball was dying I played in the senior thing which is obviously you know like slow motion more tennis skill and I think Wimbledon realized that as opposed to make an owner super fast and serving and then then it got slow or slower the masters event. I've gotten bigger and more popular so I think of that level. The the game is in great shape. I think the players are playing at a level. That's extraordinary than I do but to me it was like if you didn't really hit the ball <hes> and is sort of landed in the middle of the bose dying so that's why I think you saw fedor wild whatever it is two hundred fifty three matches and it didn't come into play <hes> wh- go back to what you're saying about the Americans actually it's A. B. Top ten to they have a shot to win. Majors consistently probably not because each of them have flaws. You know whether it's T._I. Fo's the for him the stroke production Fritz slower with a high balance and it's like okay this is starting to look like a hardcore so working. We balance it now. So now you play with you. GotTa play with a little slice. It rewards people for and just ahead on the court. You could tell you could tell the difference big difference the service or the balls <hes>. I thought it was a surface. I know some players say was balls and they were no better have to happen for the U._S. To have two top ten players I mean it's it's well. I think actually we've got to have a shot. I mean I think between Fritz. Oh Pella and tee off oh I think they ought to shop to Asian girls. You will see all different backgrounds not just of racer of SOCI socioeconomic barrier. Okay you go to a the World Coco Vandeweghe of the world. You know CICI bellis. I know she's coming under you know unbelievably quick athletic. You're getting those young girls more drawn. There are going to be less breaks in general than there are other services so I think having that sort of one extra set to me is exercise. Yes an extra set was wild the boys tournament in General Okay and you can make sure of course an exception here or there but as one of my coaches told me when you went to call them when I was so you're you're getting so the point is we're getting the pick of the litter of I think athletes as women as females cocoa goths. The Sloan Stevens is is worth the U._S._D._a. and I said what do you see at the boys national. He says well I see a lot of parents with Rolex whiter than buffalo when you don't so <hes> say never you never know it. Could it could come around but probably what has to worry. What are the Guinea coast what has to happen yeah exactly what apple and my years at U._S._c. a going into the junior tournament. I have a <hes> here's this. This is what sums it up for me. Okay and I know I'm the tennis because tennis is your you the only sports where they can make it big and make a lot of money okay and in t as a boy growing up in the south there in Florida now that being said you look at the the guys at the top and I mean these guys are just you know. They're the best athletes on the planet. There's some of the best athletes on the plant so it's very simple Florida or wherever you know here where we live Lacrosse gets into college or you know football obviously basketball baseball so when happens is with the kids get had antennas in Leicester some connection. That's family related that's off. Oh that was sort of his because his dad was working at the place. You know tell her Fritz. His parents were professional. He's a unique case. I think that generally <hes> but I do think that this issue of <hes> <hes> keeping the kids involved and keeping them interested team and we're all it does Las Vegas. It does take a unique <hes> individual to WANNA do it. You know to have the passion to to and Labour companies great and he loves the Locker Room and the ambiance and he's cheering and he's doing cartwheels when someone hits a winner right and then you put them out there himself and I mean there's there's there's a tangent but all of these college scholarships that are going to international players right away some incentive and I think is something <hes> that's really problematic to do it now. So how come girls were having more success quote unquote at the professional level with young women right. I don't know because they're pushed into it earlier and they honor every year a couple of athletes in a couple of business people in sports so this one particular year they honored Michael Strahan who had just retired and he was going into his TV career interested when they're young. I mean you know I remember years ago going in the march of dimes lunch and when I was with the U._S._D._a. in you know where they raise money for this charity and all the sports people. Are there like someone who's a little you know six two six three zero <hes> so that's a part of the issue <hes> so let me ask you three questions. A is it just economics uh-huh takes a really special kind of athlete to go out there and hit balls at five hundred four million balls. That's a lot different than everyone's on the A._A._U. Basketball team mix it. The W._p._a. is the most lucrative sports league for women but the A._T._p. Ain't for men the is it. That's part of it. Yeah is it that kids generally want to be with other kids and play with other kids so I think that's <hes> you know I can't. I'm not smart enough to know whether it's a male female issue. If that's are they more into I dunno don't girls. WanNa play on the softball team and Lacrosse team too. I mean at the soccer team I mean soccer is bigger than ever for women and girls so and he got up give a great speech and <hes> he talked told the story of when he was his dad was in the military and so he was a he was a is more relevant in in in tennis <hes>. Why do we get the best <hes> swimmer so we have the best swimmers in the world right at men and women I matic. What do you think someone floated this to me. They said to Socialization Boys WanNa be on teams and it's bus rides and pranks and it's been him he was out like they were playing soccer and one of the you know someone in the on the on the base said. Hey Hey man. Have you ever tried football. He'd never played organized football in. I'm not sure that's that's it. I mean I do see that overall as a problem for tennis referee you know working at the academy and seeing you know kids whether they're boys or girls kids into the the my you know the brass the U._S._A. And I said herein lies the problem right protest because it's it's impossible to go forget about being this is really hard. I mean the most basic skills that you think are easy or very hard to learn and to teach and it makes me realize that it's in his life Michael Strahan and never played organized football so he's like sure you know and try to you know became a hall of fame football player and I turn it's crass and it's probably an over generalization but people Lebron James at age eight is already been diverted right executive football baseball basketball soccer. Yes early on the court in on working right kids and which I wasn't really able to do when I was with U._S._D._A. So working with kids working with coaches unlike Matt how the Hell I mean this China's players. Oh Palca you know as sort of a freak physically so you're getting you're not getting the pick of the litter. Necessarily say I mean it's it's interesting hard. That's what I'm saying. Tennis very are now working with kids away. I have because this what's been great about this job. I'm doing the last few years at the academy is I'm actually <hes> but slaps and it's <hes> it takes a rough on the doll and Jovic you know all these guys from Europe or do yeah but so <hes> this is something that was floated to me sort of specific to players as look nick curious was born to be a team sport athlete and you put him an army kid and he was in Germany. His Dad was stationed. Germany and Michael Strahan was like eighteen or nineteen. I know yeah and they said to I mean and there's obviously other countries Australia. Whatever and gymnastics great gymnasts on specially female gymnastics figure skating. It's an interest though I mean Yeah <hes> College Breyer unless you start tennis by the age of six or seven and played a tunnel now not that's the only thing you do Kansas Kid. You know I spent hours hours at the Douglaston Club Nagoya full circle hitting against the wall playing against the wall basically teaching myself and you know kids don't have time I'm for that. I mean parents. You know that's not the way our society works anymore. We just let your kids go out and play now. We've got to have a group from four six and then from six to eight and everybody's gotTa then get homework and unlike other great players when she gets tight her level goes exponentially down land bridges some reason she can well. There's kids basically get the Reps. I liked the idea of putting on the wall like I remember as a kid like I used to play imaginary finals between Labor and Rosewall and I would just go and she sort of made this issue which he rarely does <hes> but she she made it a priority to record. She wants US record. I wonder if is a history there yeah but I mean she just hit the ball literally the normal ball in the bottom of the net <hes>. It's so funny mentioned that she's played six tournaments and six major. Go play pickup and be Lebron. <hes> what <hes> lastly what what are we looking for. It's you know lay ally so we've got some <hes>. We still have yeah I mean I. I wonder if she if she had to do it again right. She says I don't give a shit about Margaret Court. I'm just here. I love the sport out here until I enjoy it. I've got nothing left to prove and this point five at the open is tricky. It's hot. You know it's wash. It's not as windy as it used to be. which to me is made the quality of play better? You know we took the heat's been an issue. Now I like Serena's now playing well enough to major jamie very quick to this nerves right thirty seven years old three majors nervous yeah because she wants it that badly for carving his own identity. I can't imagine it's easy to be seven years younger than a brother. Who is that prominent in for while anyway was at polarizing and to if that wasn't exactly it's possible it's possible. I mean she's always struck me as sort of saying what she I mean she's honest but she doesn't. She's not. She's these guys are playing and they're only playing at night or are there for the women. It's the same old story. Can you know can Serena get over her nerves in in the final. I mean it's it's not <hes> all right great. Thanks for coming in appreciate it yeah. Could you want nineteen bucks. Take my corporate. She's honest but she's not always honest. Always that mystery about her which I think is what makes it interesting that you never quite know what she's really thinking yeah exactly have carved pleasure distinct identity <hes> anyway <hes> dot Jamie. I thought it was great to have an in studio guest. I agree with that yeah. <hes> people necessarily twin them together and they played up sometimes on the broadcast on the McEnroe Brothers are going to call the match but <hes> I give him an awful lot of credit atten <hes> glad to talk with him but I stand by what I said before which is I don't think many people think of him necessarily as John. McEnroe's little brother and I don't think Canon already or joke Vich and Fedor so you're just going to see them just sort of getting themselves ready for the open. You know it's to me. It's still the exact same there for hours. So that takes a special kind of crazy. I mean I love team sports to a lot but I but I enjoyed that. As being you know would would would help me become a good dentist. Blurb uh-huh thanks for coming in the open all right thanks to Pat McEnroe for coming by cody. More in studio guests just a different vibe <hes> l. the with the roof. There's basically no wind inside. Arthur stadium right so that to me is a <hes> has some impact. I think that you see less upsets these these if some film revelations in the plot we're thinking that is going to be <hes> you know. Obviously the men top guys are gonNA. You know they're biding their time to you know they've all pulled out of a <hes> happiest. Bring for lunch Jamie Lettuce for you from your producing duties and bring you in <hes>. Have you met Patrick for I had not he we text since the baby and she's been in three finals so obviously she's playing well enough to two wins no doubt if she's never lost three finals before while she's never known before <hes> <hes> it's always nice to have someone sitting next to me on the side of the table interesting what he said about. Federer that he said you reminded him of what he said during he ever hit three horse race anybody else step up right. Does anyone gonNA breakthrough is Medvedev or hatching off or CISA pass. Does anybody when you go. I don't see it this. I'm glad he came and we were talking about doing this for awhile and <hes> he moved out to <hes> we used to live <hes> quite near each other now he moved to the suburbs so good do <hes> give them an excuse to come into. Manhattan homer you know so everything's more see very much more structure and I think that makes it more difficult especially in a in a in an urban area like here it makes it much more difficult for excuse message and he bought me a few times in setting up this guests but before that we had not spoken happens to the best of us. I stand by what I said. I'm glad that's really hard to imagine. It's really hard to imagine doing it now. Yeah it's impossible to imagine go go play for five hours while B B Roger Rafa exact or you can go improves US wrong. I think think we're still seeing that point with him. I don't think that this match and this year is like that match that sort of this was a really pivotal moment and I think when he said and he referred back to the matches where we're like all right well. This is going to be it and then federal goes for me. I feel like we'd heard about her and <hes> you know we knew that one day should be great right. I feel like that's sort of the <hes> common thing that comes out of you know U._S. tennis circles when you've got these young teenagers but for me it seemed like she really just like caught fire and in the way through but were you were you shocked by how many matches and how far she went. Did you think that she was kind of on the brink because for okay that women's tennis is right now with a new number one every every so often every so quarter every major we have someone new and we have kind of new major winners every once in a while it seems like if she catches fire and she keeps on rolling. I mean she really could keep going in and really make a huge. That's that's a great thing but I think that's all the more reason to put some guardrails on and avoid burnout avoid physical burn out and I think these rules are well-intentioned skills and make a living. I also feel like this rule is put in for a reason and it's well intentioned <hes>. I what thing that I do think changes the equation. A little bit is really hard to keep defending the federal position at some level and that there's a sense that joke riches climbing the ranks and his considerably younger great goat debate that has captivated tennis does seem like that was a turning point but <hes> we'll see <hes>. I WanNa ask you about Cocoa Goth because I feel as though but at the same time. I think that you got twenty years to make your keep and <hes> why not limit the kid. I don't think anyone gains by challenging. These rules just at these careers are so long these days which is a great thing that when you know twenty five years ago twenty years ago when we were talking about Jennifer Capriati here's an A._T._M. And I don't think there are some of the <hes> the forces that were there if you heard Mary Pierce's induction speech at the hall of fame. I don't think this is a situation like that with Coca Gov rules but I admit to being between here to give thoughts do you. I never really got to talk about her after Wimbledon. I don't know kind of slipped slip through. You're on the downside of even John. McEnroe didn't win a major after he was twenty five now. I feel like you got twenty years so there isn't necessarily the urgency again but I still think that fans are processing this match and on the one hand you say boy federal came close and that was disappointing but you know he's got twenty of these and the plot keeps yeah priorioties rebelling as as a teenager and has gotten eaten up by the system a little bit. I don't think there's <hes> sort of dark forces. I think this is all well. Intentioned is year peaks for grass who was all set up. Picot Jovic on a day when Jovic wasn't necessarily as best and he just couldn't do it and now it's getting really really moving and there's a major coming up in a few weeks. He has another chance then I do think there are also people saying boy. This was his last best chance to win a major. He talks about how his they were talking about. Martinez there was a sense of boy. You really need to make Hay while you can because by the time you're twenty four twenty five years old. Oh I am not entirely sure what to think. I do think that people who are talented and skilled generally deserve to <hes> be able to apply those talents and and I kind of am of the opinion that <hes> we ought to be abiding by these and cocoa. Goths seems to be a stable situation. I don't think her parents are using hers and I I do feel like this is just sort of moderating these tax in these questions that I get I do feel like there's a bit of a shift and <hes> in this I do think that at one point that kind of affected her and she lost early and she got to take a step back and kind of just hideaway where no-one no-one talked to her talked about her and I I think that helped her and so I I worry that about that kind of burn out more so than the tennis burnout per se yeah. I think <hes> this big turning point for better. I don't think we're seeing that I think it cuts both ways. It's funny because I think there have been matches played. Since then. There's been a tennis hall of Fame Induction Ceremony but <hes> it's a really physical sport and beyond and rescue great Indian Wells and it looks like we're GonNa win a new champion this Canadian teenager and then she has did. I don't think there's an ulterior motive other than protecting kids and it's a tunnel protecting the tour and the brand is not great for the sport or for the W._T._a. When Jennifer Capriati huge jump and for me that when he talked about burnout and everything I think the one thing that sort of hit and I only Osaka and she she was in a much different space shared with kind of was that all of a sudden it was sponsors and media and all this stuff that comes along with the ride and I tweak or you have a little pain and I have the ability to do this mazing. I'm so young I'm just gonNA keep going going going and all of a sudden shoulder injury or whatever whatever I shoulder injury and hasn't been the same player since <hes>. It's almost like the sort of his blinding right. The success is like you you keep pushing and you have a little ooh oppose that and put themselves in in her shoes. I get to meet the big variable nuts and I think it's something that's great for tennis. I think this is a really positive trend but I think the fact that we don't need these teenage fiefdoms anymore and you can have appeared me. Madison keys had some ups and downs. We were talking before with Patrick. Djokovic had a basically a two year a year sabbatical where he wasn't nearly the player that he was and he recovered from that and he's still only in his early thirties and he's he's often running so I think that <hes> and it doesn't take that long before any of that allure wears off and it becomes a burden and you know you you can train you can hit a million for hands and you can work on your overhead. This whole element of burnout. I think is really it's <hes> diminish a bit when these careers go into their thirties but <hes> anyway we'll we'll see how cocoa goff so it's interesting <hes> it was interesting for me to read <hes> to read that from her and and see how someone like. Cocoa Gov being so young and carefree and she comes in she does all the stuff can actually really does affect the rest of the players have been McKee's not that old not that you know has has <hes> it can be really exhausting and you know I mean we're we're in the media. We bear some responsibility as well. I I feel very torn about this cocoa. Goth I mean at some level. It's dishonest. We've all seen this movie and you come out in a Chinese exciting in the first time you ride in the back of a limo. It's really cool in the first time. You're in a green room of a morning show. It's really cool and honest not to talk about her skills and her accomplishments she qualified and then one another three main draw matches. I mean it would it would be malpractice not to talk excitedly about her and at the same time we need to give her some space and we need to see how this pans out and she had a very nice woman but then she played a step up read through thin the commitments and I think it's a combination. I just think mentally that's a huge yeah. That's as as bearing as a as a physical Ryan. We've balance the fact that there's very exciting clearly very talented teenage player but also remiss lumps even said it really well like she's a talented kid but she's still a kid and head but there's really no preparation for that moment when you're agents telling you you've you've got to <hes> they'll they'll send a private plane but you've got to be at the photo shoot and Martinique Mattison keys talked about coke off and she said that it made her reflect back on on her career and reignited something in her to look back and played a quality opponent Mahala and looked like a sixteen year old playing against the Wimbledon champion that there was still room and I think that <hes> we all need to sort of what did she obviously qualified in DC. <hes> as we record this she's about to take the court she did win a first round and W <hes> but we'll see so the grateful for what she has but also <hes> you know she said I lost it a little bit like when you're when you're doing something for so long you kind of lose that that passionate away and <hes> that's I. I think that really resonated with me so <hes> anyway my my point is I suspect these rules could be challenged and they they do seem counter to <unk> anyway. That's another story line to follow this summer and <hes> I wanNA thank Patrick for coming in. We'll pay for his parking. <hes> thanks Jamie for <hes> for certain free market <hes> American way but I think they're there for the right reasons and we respect them. I <hes> I read something interesting yesterday. <hes> Washington Post ever that injury is so I mean I think it's it's definitely possible. I think your points we'll take him about ASAKA. I worry about the physical as well as the burnout and being spread at age. I was blank or you know the Williams sisters already had put together hall of fame credentials with Coco Gulf was bored. I think everybody sort of you know. Tran transpose been on tour for a long time but she's not that old <hes> so I don't know I thought it was yeah I say everyone I think everyone would play this game with Coco Goth of boy when I was that extending that up always good to have an in studio guest and I'm on the road next week but we'll figure something out sounds all right. Thanks everyone for listening. Thanks the Patrick for coming down. Thanks Jamie for her expert producing in her <hes> her and we'll have another guest next week. How would we group.