Rock's Backpages Ep. 78: Sheryl Garratt on Rave Culture + Terry Farley Audio + The Streets
Welcome through pages podcast on Bonnie Hoskins, and I'm here with my colleagues. Mark Pringle Hi Bonnie unjust. Murison Bowie had low bony. And, we'll delighted today to welcome special. Guest Sheriff Garrett Hi Cheryl. So, glad you could join US especially in the. New Edition of your Classic Adventures in Wonderland, which will be talking about later tying him with this? We'll be hearing clips from an interview with the veteran deejay Terry Folly, and we will also be talking a little about the streets Mike Skinner. I shall we want to know everything about you'll journey from Birmingham to becoming editor of the face, rushing this book and brought up to the present day. If the earliest pieces of us, we have on auto, pay off from nine hundred ninety. One when you I think still at school and Brome is not true. No I would have been at UNI by then. I wrote friend to me when I was still at school. mackney he was quite short. Know really tweaked. Sixty nine. So, what year was what year was your first piece in? What was your first piece published? Anyway was been the enemy. No I was working for is writing a law you know as a kid and I been focusing plumbing and rocket traces them so they their paper I have my own fanzine and I was writing for temporary hoarding so writing off lot stuff usually under names like Shehzad. Would you put I to Kuni shows us. At the? Same a spencer. Coach. Enemy and Egypt to me when no you. Really, grateful for that. So, so you you. I worked for the enemy in. GUESSING AT&T one. We'll do so this. The relied review of the be, and there's this lovely piece about musical use. I think before they were even cooled musical use yet. They got signed because of that pace. They were kind of my uncle. Tony sort of put musical us together. He was one of the big reggae urging in. Birmingham and he was amazing to me like he introduced me to people like earning spare my first question to bunning Spa sexist why the women in reggae! Your? Question and he just thought China when they will take some time and. He just sat me to use me to the I threes DD MA. wrote me a great big listening list. He didn't go way logo. You don't know what you're talking about. He sat down very patiently and gave me a whole list music with great again, so grateful menu moved up to London in. It. Blah. Came up to London to come to university. So I think seventy, nine hundred eighty can't remember okay, okay and. I remember you because when I first started writing in front of me, so remember your byline that don't you think I met you in in that period, and you would have written for an emmy folk. What six three years before going to Sec-? Limit something. That's right I. write enemy throughout doing an English degree basically and he paid my way. You know I couldn't have managed in London without that really and I used to. Just the reason you never met me is I was so chronically shy. We'd only coming in the very early in the morning or very light and grand lot with wait for me to give me my album of the of the wake to review and the nuts slip back out again and I was terrified if you will. Go in and pull Morley with just turn round points of anger. She doesn't know what she's doing. You know and I will be found as a fraud and exposed by impediment easing words that belong enough slow. Everyone was terrified, but no one was honest bouncer. Thing you realise in retrospect and I was very lucky that Julie. Burchill took me under a wing very early on and gave me a lot of support and just kept going. Let becky you know s for some more, and she was just so great. Oh, that's really good to does fantastic, so you went to city limits, and then we'll fast forward a little bit I. Mean I'm sure Stacy limits was. I mean you all. Famous for war having been? Miss many things, but you were the editor of the face. For six years yet six seven years, yeah, and I was there a couple of years before that doing music clubs and production so? Quietly long while on a do you want? City limits was the best training ground cut during the music and club, and it was before word processes so tight that stuff off every single week, so I knew where every night club in London was because I tightened week in week out and I could walk into any venue in. London and I think that was really important, but I took the face which uses encyclopedia acknowledges what was going on in London plus knowing what was going on in Birmingham Manchester because I went home. A law and I got friends in Manchester. I think that's what was what I pull there. Really. The wasn't much I didn't know about what was going on in music clubs in London. AMAC's very clear from adventures in Wonderland, which which you've revised a thanks updates to some extent. It's coming out this very week. To. On the cost just before we all got together now just reached the paragraph lead Tony. Wilson's voluntarily closed ender so basically I got some what three days ago and I've got that far into the book. It's fantastic I'm so enjoying. It is so great. It's great I'm. Really enjoying it and you, it's now got a different subtitle from when you first publish it, which was nine, thousand, nine, hundred nine, when it was a decade of club coach now some type of acid house, right and the K. Club explosion and I mean it's I don't whether the definitive is appropriate. What's so great about it is? It's written by someone who is right on the inside of many of these things I. Mean You really really experienced? Stay wasn't it's not being written historically one removes. You were a participant now again. You know I'd like to say it was kind of calculated. It was total luck that I happened to be the person the face to do the first Chicago. How Story! On total lock the Frankie knuckles is one of the interviews. We really go on, so he said you, WanNa go out and took me out to all the clubs that nobody else also being to. The close down in the year after that Ron Hardy I think who was one of the great cavs stage I studied to stage. AP's with Frankie was daddy later, so it was a real experience, and also being I liked baby, you know the nine thousand nine flights to New York or available when when I was in my early twenties, so Manhattan clubs were a playground. It was possible to go for a weekend. That was that was my review money from enemy? Pursuit of two months with by me can clubbing in new. York. Being to all of those clips, being to the Paradise Garage at being two of the Alley Chicago Clubs, and I knew that able, but by Shit. Chance. I really envy you go. Part, girl or I mean. You know in retrospect song love to them. Van Fantastic Dj. Yeah, it was like watching the conductor. Conduct the orchestra. He could literally put some on and get one side of the rim, dancing, and the other side just so to sneering. Soit it switched I if I he knew exactly everyone was in the room and what they wanted. It's extraordinary things to behold. The. First piece that we're going to feature is is in. Doubt pays from the face. September, Eighty six, before you were the editor called sampling, hold the house. Sound is Chicago and it really is so wonderfully like fly on the wall and the fact that Ron Hardy. POPs up in the PC's actually there. It's such an important piece because it played its part in. Ceding really the Cobb culture that we all now. I mean so so from that to sort of the soup star deejays of the nineties there is there is a real threat that will continue, and you'll look essentially. It goes all over the place which I really like so the different shops, his covered different scenes, different people on styles of music, but essentially it is about the phenomenon of the day Jay and clubs, the extraordinary saints Turkish Snow Perry and Wonderful Liberation of Oh i. mean looking back I mean when you went Chicago that some. Could you full sane? Where will this was ultimately going to go? You know I'd love to say yes, but. I mean the pay such should records. They didn't know they were completely blocking it. They were signing anything that moved in Chicago the time. They knew that something, but they have no idea what he will and people with enough. They'd signed their lawyer to make a record and he was rapping. Oldies Chirac hose, trying to make up a new type of cooling roping and. I won't put the PR. Just when we side all these people I don't know their names. Here's some photos of them. You know they had no idea. It was just blundering. Bow and I think that's what I'm saying. The element of luck that I kind of locked into connecting with Frankie, and he was like I'll show you. What's really going on? And they took me into the Studio Moss. Jefferson with recording and took me to the clubs where the housing was really going on and I. think that was just sheer lock to kind of just connected with him at the right time. Absolutely all from Sun, widows could've out there very much from the same time. Use Their July six and he was screwed by the enemy. They wouldn't listen cover it. He did manage to sell a piece to idea. Can always. Yeah Yeah and I. Think we will region stop thinking. What are they talking? Because I said management with Mike Pickering, and in the corner of the office, smoking joints and raving about stuff and then. He released Krino T. Koi came out on deconstruction. I didn't get it. I'm ashamed sale I just didn't I didn't guess it didn't get house music. I have right under my nose, and I miss even take when it first came out. We call it like I can't remember now. It's more of a jazz rock. Than a house record, and it took a while to tight routine. Specially in London in London Manchester took root really quickly because he have the same rhythm is northern soul. I think absolutely in London. It was just another music in the make so. On. June you're going to be talking about a minute. Terrified is very funny about precisely that, but how London didn't guess it. took a surprising amount of time. He says it's partly because the established Sima so strong London. spout rare groove primarily point exactly that unexpected resistance is really strong. HOW INTERESTING! Bush the kind of VIP drug that. It's like it. It took Awad Catchall as a club drug I'd seen it as a drug that people took him back rains and stroke to each other in the cushions and it was. Not For me, I'm going back to nights. I didn't I didn't think it was an attractive thing to try told, and I think that was the key thing. When MD may came into the mix. Suddenly, we all go there. Cheryl talk briefly. If you would about just the faces row in covering Oli Saints, I mean the second piece for example is is not about how this account of going to the Third Blackpool. Soul, funk and jazz weekend. In April nineteen, ninety nine. You're writing about the things that the obviously grew out of the whole move and soul, saying so I mean the face was was very attentive to list stuff, wasn't it? Well I would say. The Opposite! This was my life and occasionally I was allowed to put it into the magazine. I went out six nights a week every week. I'd go into the habit from city limits, and that's what I did and we traveled all around the country to go two days. As and too so we can doesn't stop and occasionally I'll walk into. The face should really cover this sniff? KRIEF thing was one point Nick Logan, said he was considering closing the face at the end of the it's he. You know it would be a fantastic statement to just finish the micro seen Adrian it's hundred issue or at the end of the ages and I really strongly felt there was this big new youth culture coming through, and we should be covering it on one day. We had this chat and we're having designed discussion. We had about this and he just will have all these people, and I said well. You know the twenty thousand them dancing in a field I went to last night, and he went fine doing magazine for them. Then let's let's see how that works and Cussler Circulation the magazine Shaw And after that I, felt we permission, and by then a lot. The design team younger pat was from Manchester already bringing things like happy Mondays in the face, and saying we should be covering this and it felt like we finally covering what we were doing. Instead of trying hard to cook kids a new writing the book about the phenomenon of what we could call the indy. Don't cross. I'll go in. Don't starts to kind of. Infiltrate Indie, northern indie music can and the whole magister phenomenon unfolds from man I mean. That is an extraordinary moment, isn't it and it really made me think about how the Mondays in the roses was sort of to something in opposition to. The whole Morrissey, whole horrible. Hang the DJ exactly. So is fascinating. Reading about about that air. The third piece is looking back it the second summer of love, full the face, but in nineteen ninety-seven seven, so it's almost a decade later, and that's an interesting piece. You use such Yawkey. Mentioned the eighth or anything like that, but you argue that it wasn't as revolutionary as some claim, and you'll book in a sense is about the bigger picture of the fomin copying itself. Isn't it what what prompted the in? When did you first start thinking about writing the book? I think when I stopped going clubbing. After my son was born I had the delusion that most people have when they have their first child, but you know three months after he was born at somehow party cupboard and get back to normal life. Yeah. Yeah, you know so. I very clearly remember the first time we did go to. A club is a tough tough party. My friends in Birmingham on we left our son waste with my mom and dad dude, and we went to this all nighter by eleven o'clock me and my husband will looking at each other and going. Home. Actually we weren't gonNA. Be Dancing on anymore. The allies to change the you know also. It's about time we let. Some young people have a space on the dance floor. We had hoped district like a long time. Yes I think it was closure for me. It was like if I'm not efficient. I do five six nights a week anymore. I don't like to write about what it was like. And also knowing that I've been in the middle of the I. Think was paid tongue I said. Why haven't you written a book about this? WAS A. So totally as Terry follicles told me that we have to thank really for adventurous. His patients for the number of times. We rang at home at four in the morning. Telling Me Dole. Bumpy Lane funny, the first three times that we did it rather more than. I'm curious. Did this structure of the book kind of come naturally, or was it something that you have to kind of? Fit Together. Because Club. Coach isn't linear. and. People will say I invented this and someone else say. I invented this and they both right. Because things developing so interweaving. Music that started in Chicago. Detroit New York and until I started writing. I had no idea that Larry Levana Frankie knuckles have been childhood friends or the all the boys. With going to the clubs in Chicago and New York I didn't know how interlinked were and then you're trying to weave in the influence that big the hat on that Ananth, the whole richest history that started in across with all night as in the northern soul scene, so you interweaving all these different strands, the right guy in Seoul sound systems in London were really important warehouse parties. On all these disparate strands, and it was actually it was much easier from eighty eight to ninety, because he became a much more linear stories, Yup. But even then you things like the Blackburn Race Which? Took completely independent of the stuff. Right using so it was hard, and I still think you read it, and it's like it's packed full of names and facts, and I hope five interweave working the story I found it very remarkably straightforward. Read given the fact that is exactly what you've just described I really liked the way you first of all sort of like trace some the theory roots van, but also Dave Kussin partisan songs thankful. Establishes, sort of either disco and those. Routes but then it. It is very clear I love the way it subsides beathard how? These English kids escaping from Thatcher's Britain living on next to nothing. What shopping a beef! And discover this entirely different way of doing things and and the drug which went with it, and that's what's happened. They come back to England. What November. Eighty seven and shoe opens just. A couple of months later a month later and the whole thing so exposed. An No I think you've you've really handled a tricky material really well and it certainly from my point if you could some of people in my friends. Come, back can go. What on Earth does happen to? You know these new left with quite nice haircut. Submit Tony Tiles. Right buckle tie dye tee shots and. I, we would just aghast. The hell is happening here and then I went to. A couple of par is up and it was like. No, I mean I'm definitely. Off! Shock the kind of criminal elements that infiltrate these things on the damage that was done. It? Did ton pretty dogs not least around the house. The end might go i. mean it's really sobering literally to to sort of revisit some of the stuff that happened at that time show one of the important things to say about the Hacienda because it's closed and they've got nothing to lose. They will be brutally honest. There was lots of other going on where promoters asked me to take things out of the book because it goes real problems so the one by to say to me when I sang. Tim some stuff to read, it was like yet. You've been really clever here, but we'll get one of US killed so all you know. With the Hacienda close close for good, you could tell that story and the people inside were willing to tell that story, but you know it happened to an awful lot of other promoters. Manchester thing many just hat cruise when reading about kids, who innocently selling a to the Powell's ending up in the alleyway behind with guns in their mouths i. mean it's it's. It's pretty shocking exactly that but I mean it's also very timely publication of the book right now. Sheryl given everything we've read in the last couple of weeks about illegal raves Corentin race. You wrote a piece for the Guardian loss Saturday, and then following not three or four days later. Later? It was this pace via Kyle, if I'm pronouncing the name right, which is disturbing. So what is your take on the summa? That's coming I. Mean You. Are you concerned? You'll paces obviously sympathetic. You understand that young people are concerned cabin fever crazy, so how how you looking at it right now? I think this has been building a couple of years. I've been hearing about on for a couple of years on. You know there's been an unprecedented at. Twenty percents of our nightclubs closed in two thousand eighteen for some. They carried on closing the so few places for people to play now for people to gather and play you know I. Sixty Centers of just become luxury flats. Religious fell to them, you know. This. And People need to be able to gather on. They need faces together because they've been out, you know these parties have been happening in woodlands and fields, and there's no even abandoned warehouses like we had because I now luxury apartment, so I have huge sympathy for it, and of course huge FIA as well because the virus hasn't gone away, but I can totally totally see why people want gathering dance. You know it's. It's part of human nature. It's tribal thing because by the earliest cave paintings show pictures of people dancing and some of them forty thousand years old. So I will not going to kind of get out of young people now, and after this period of isolation, you know I met some friends on the beach a couple of weeks ago for the first time, and we only cried news eight of Tunisia's apart and we've been talking. Throughout but it people need people. She said San Antonio what Song? And I do think they have this thing in this country. Where was really suspicious of people enjoying themselves? We always think slightly suspect to needs to be sat on. Changing. And we changed It doesn't walk. Can eventually we find a way of accommodating it and he would be so much better if we were sitting down now and think he will. This is obviously going to happen. How can we accommodated? Make it safe as possible. Instead of guiding light, we will take the full force of the lower onto these kids. It's like when you got whatsapp to spread to arrive. Is How on earth you gonNA stop. I, mean they couldn't stop swoon. Those mobile phones on phone banks. In. To Stop it now this close social networks, one of the carts remark synthetic. You talked him coextensive studies senior policeman in the south of England named by. Then yeah, that's right. I ended up really liking it when he was talking about. The edge of this party and he'd find himself nodding heads the GROOVE. Which? Is Funny. Shop, the place about the eighty-nine writes this you know. They went in expecting to find this kind of unruly mob, and what they found whether own kids with big smiles on their faces dancing in. And it was difficult to so to demonize them when she met them there early tabloid headlines about biting the heads of pigeons and they should. and. Then he went limit. It was a light load. Kids with their own ride each other smiling. Yeah, yeah, I remember that from the police she rushed towards them to try and get into the party, and you big grins on their faces, and they'd be standing there, and then they couldn't help themselves. Start Smiling Pissy was funding. Yeah actually rights and know that it's not the raves happening now during the lockdown then not random in the sense that it's been an ongoing thing over the last few years, whereas all the clubs have been shut down. By One and the licensing laws of changed to make an increasing impossible to open anything past eleven o'clock when the good people want to go to sleep or something, it does make it extremely difficult to as you say got enjoy yourself, and it's not just. Oh, now we're locked up. We're going to do these things it's well. We're doing these things before, and now that's literally the only outlet. The people have absolutely. Go out and so I think it's not surprising really. We need to be finding spaces where people can play in the middle of our city centers and we need to make that a priority. We can't turn everything into luxury apartments. Late developing Raver I spent quite a few years going to a lot of very sort of underground, partisan, curious of warehouse space, and so forth run hackney an they'll closed one by one mostly because a block of fats gone up next to people living in the PUCK and fats. Up Yet. The people were buying this flats to be in that post town bugs. In the first place, this is the paradox. The very physically happens. Is the area that you spent a million pounds to buy their penthouse. Yes, absolutely. The Wall. With. Probably a good moment to head the first of. Terry Fawley. Let me just briefly introduce the interviews bill brewster in front. In Student Terry Two thousand five, I'm terrified. US pretty interesting because he he's A. He's a classic sort of old fashioned soul. Boy is a couple of years younger than me. He was born into. What's nothing Dale? So that ended nothing hill? Re Housed Slough. He goes right back to his youth. When you still in listening Dale, they could hear Blues Parties Reggae. Blues Parties Down The road from where they lived so on so forth he grew up. That's coach around. Then the classic figure of people moved place like Slough. Looking for a scene looking for something. As teenagers they can get into and desperately wanting to be back in London, desperate won't be back and undertake. Club crackers which. You know very well Cheryl. Yeah, which was a rare thing for? Club is predominantly black club with a significant gasps. Who says well, so? Let's let's Simpson talking about practice. Case was that. The main of Our. It's like wow, these issues is just. And true on people nowadays united feel. Comfortable Jarring. Lines of the united allows people that ruins. Sayings of and it was not. It was a failing forward in there certainly was by. On galavision. Clubs but. That I. For that generation people. Before it was round of a big role. Young kids. I mean he's backtracking. The good dances of the black kids. There's a white kid you'd stand to one side. You Stand Round Wolves Room, nodding your head dancing modesty that you didn't tag onto the middle of the slow, because hide combative, really really interesting from a toy. He talks about them coming out of that the soul dares and weekenders Cheryl you just talk about in fact, your lives must be quite paralleled some extent east for much talking about some the late seventies early eighties Brad groove. And then I hearing house, and being sort of you know fairly baffled under. The next bond straight away. Just what we're talking about earlier was about how house didn't really fit him in in London the under Stuff. Laura. Have as like why. Now by that was. When. The songs pigs only. Minorities. And I think he's just. Songs trying to get a home. With none. And he replied Hoffner Avenue. Wasn't on Ebay. She saw. We had. Portrayed. SOUTHERN DOT com around and. And people just. Don To demonstrate. Didn't go with happy with. Chancellor maximum of it. Seventies. Seventies Moose and John Record next. And you can find myself, and you can fly the fact, and then you can play some new record that was. Coming out with America's funny but. A house of niche invite. This didn't. Think Kale's. Words. On Sunday. That's interesting. Because Cheryl USOV say different different. Clean your. Early Days that you felt that people could playhouse amongst sort of other funky stuff I think remember the club, Siva. Going to work with meets gay clubs, so places like asylum and pyramid people like Martin more and pulling faith I would definitely put in house into the mix and I think because sort of felt like a more grownup cousins high-energy, a gay crowd did now have to dance to it, so know on the floor, heaven or at at the jungle. BUSBY's definitely houses in the makes an people knew how to dance to it. Really flown of many strands mixed up with all the all the music Terry's talking about their show, while his experience was like more being room for the people used to row grooving under house team going into. All weekend there was real hostility, India definitely. anti-smoking about yet anyway, so he talks about I taking his I e discovering showroom. He says he went down. Probably likes to the third or fourth promotion of. Being Absent rivers by shaking, these guys coming back from Visa Danny, rampling in particular, and we will play it again to the podcast, which is so funny, married talks about. Ramblings acid house dogs, which was like is on the scene before he talks about him and starting boyzone I'd also how creaky this scene could be, and then he goes on through the the end of it so long interview over two hours long talks. He and bill in front discussed the emerging superstar deejay, but also houses longevity house music survived far longer than. Anyone expected still still around today you know. I loved it I really enjoyed the since. He's talking to billy. Wright can build them frank. Don't you don't Cheryl? They know their stuff when it comes to the questions are good and I, it's great stuff. It's very rare. But what I love is I said stop. It's like his journey from being a classic soul boy being house. HEDDON DJ and that that's fifteen year journey. It's really interesting, and you could almost do book. People's conversion experiences because the. Road to Damascus the. To buy that Terry talks about it. And I found that every interview I did for the Book I. Say so. What was your first time and everyone could describe exactly what are wearing when they. And what they are wearing when they left, which was very ran in the same thing you know. A friend of mine was a buyer of Brown's very fashion. Her first time show she went I. think Initial Pogo J. Suit. Reference books are short and. Nervousness, but people take undressing you in the club. I didn't understand it. You know the I have never. Everybody each take Jackie off. Weeks later there was. In the crowd peeling someone else's yeah. It's fantastic. It's. It's great that we. Talk about and also you talk to you because the whole thing's much ties brilliantly together since. Through. To really like aspect of the audience. Review that what you're saying that it is his kind of journey talks about growing up and then getting into of. I think it's really interesting that it was very much, not that everyone had the same journey, but the everyone has a kind of as you're saying sort of. Metamorphosis from one from one. To another, I, it does really bring the whole story to life as a not just a historical thing, but movement and among. Sorry sort of Carol after. Not. Houses? So that's why it's lasted so long I think because everyone slows conversion experiences. Later the than us but I don't. Really Watch your tiny still brilliant and once again and you know that's something I remember Pete. Tone sight to the you know every year I'm a year older, but the audience is exactly the same age because there's always new people. This is exciting a new. The pleasure I'd got going to billin francs. Lowlife, parties, which were kind of like old fashioned on the ground parties age ranges from white. Seventeen to sixty five story got all these generations of people who different times life discovered dance, music, and one room to be playing. The can bring disgrace on the other room would be placed proper hardcore house music, and you could fit from one to the other and. Unjust the. Experience I'm really glad I got at late better. Late than never in a? Number. experienced. Ice Nephews to dance because I think I got I danced really badly one night as Slipped around singular slow. No one doubts is very well. No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's the act the act of being in that room in that community. That really is a comedian. You know. I'm hearing a very very good Dj. Just take you higher and higher and higher and higher. Yeah well, I'm a total introvert, and I think that's why I've always been comfortable in clubs because she just go into the crowd and disappear. It's not about you. It's about being part of something bigger than you and I've talked about clubs. Is the point. Isn't it really I? Mean it's it's whereas culture so predicated on the staring up these gold silver stage. This is the complete inversion of thought and the freedom of thought on the on the sort of Democrats that joy of it really. STARTED TO SHIFT May, I remember ninety seven going up to gate crush with judge stools on coming out. Same Star is set, and he came on, and all the lights came on, and everyone turned towards the stage. Yeah, came and I was like Oh. This isn't my Kinda club a tool. Not Not, not denigrate Enga- crusher told, but it really did for like you were going to watch an act not to be and. In clubs choose to you are they are the audience where the stars not the DJ I'm. That's reached its peak in America with the Holy, movement the ultra superstar deejay where they're based like stadium rocker the. Dance Music, which is just depressing I. Mean You know I love it when I love seeing? I mean one of my favorite deejays. DJ, COSMO colleen, Murphy. WHO's they've Mancuso's representative on earth. WHO's of about guests on the PODCAST few months? and. She's just sensational. Watching her you dont fabulous teams is playing. But. Yes, you can. You can appreciate the quality of a good, DJ. What's interesting about your book and that she didn't tell Terry. Fox in the interview is how late people started mixing records in this country the idea of Creating. A seamless mix was a recent late eighties. Phenomenon wasn't people simply didn't do that before play pulled. That was fascinating. No idea so the seemed that have been going on all the time but not. So scratchy signs of needles being taken out. In the soul weekenders. The teachers would get on the mic between. You know we'd have to listen to them. Talk before we could. Fall is very funny about Georgia power the. Crackers. and. He was a real on the MIC man. It's. Three. And? He scathing about his dress. Sense as well as. One of these are funds foster. Listening to the fall owned reading. Your book is just the wonderful kind of salt, real snow, bringing this of the codes that you I mean I think always found it very intimidating when I was in my twenties I wasn't not club because I was just forty self-conscious and always felt like I'm getting wrong I'm getting something wrong. Looking at me and saying this. Never stopped, but I always felt I in clubs because I didn't feel I belong anywhere else. Really you know it's like I'm never been stylish, but I found the boyzone really intimidating until I got to know them. They would go. You've got the wrong shoes on. You can't come in surfing. Folly is actually very fussy about, and he talks about his own snobbery about way on. People addressed themselves. But in a way, that's a classing, but I mean twenty one reasons I didn't get coming back in the day is that? Is a substantially working class thing which comes out of the roots and things like Maude. All those sorts of things where the notion of how you dress was important in in a way that it wasn't that saved. Let's say Bonnie capsized sources like and the hippie periods of people where A. I remember what I was at school. The skinheads were just evolving after the multiple nights sixty, eight, sixty nine. And very particular they had to wear this jacket. These shoes this sort of stuff and that mud culture extended right through. DANZ culture. I think particular. Sort of working class thing about appearance's about scenes, sewn samples, and especially if you'll come someone like slough where you got from nothing else to do, I think it's. Important that. I was so stop taking drugs, and when I was twenty four years old so when I'd go to clubs in the mid eighties, I felt so of crippled by self consciousness in a way that maybe I wouldn't now, maybe he's to. Found it unbearable. Are could not so Lewis. self-consciousness you know, maybe we don't go out and you should. Go to. Raise. Them one together now. Thank. Thank you so much for joining us to talk about this. Sub and anyone who's listening, go out and buy Charles Fabulous Book Adventures in Wonderland to show. We do love a segue on the Rockstar. Pages podcast so the best that we can do this week and moving into a brief discussion of Mr Mike Skinner. To note that his track weak become heroes, own original material is I think one of the most useful so allergies full derive Air I. Don't know if you know that track Charlotte. Do you do I mean? It's interesting Mike's becoming? With clients because I not coach creates more more, you know. He's named coming up again as an influence and I'm so glad that people are starting to knowledge his par in things. Yes other body when we were first starting rocks pages, and we'd been lent of today's Steve. Crap Shannon and that I'll just come out and we listen to a lot and. It shouldn't have been something out of love and I actually adore that. How because it spoke for London? I recognize it spoke of the sort of people were around where I was and the summit to life without him. I think he's just such an interesting guide. His attendance is weird, talked about music. Just sorta like sort of grind. WILL PRO grow? And yet there's a real tennis took to him and he did really. I totally agree with you, yeah! You're you're? Are you Cheryl. Yeah. Original apartment would say it's one of my favorite records. Know my favorite homes just period. I think it's extraordinary and you know he's done lots of good things since then was allow computer blues was pretty good. Those new like mix tape album coming out this week. Hence we're talking about. I'm we've got three? We've got a clip of the Audio interview with Mike Skinner from twenty to the original part materials just come out and govern. Maltin is talking to him somewhat. Let's just hair, not little clip. Just let. The real. Area, has he? got. Is Just just glamorize? Might exciting. What your life! Just as good as. Any Just as exciting. Anyway grail. We got these. Homegrown In. Videos televisions sixty. Yes, so we have that interview featured for free on the homepage. This way can. It's just. It's love listening to him. Manhasset hasn't come to this his I. think being a hit at this point and he just. He talks to to to govern about Oh. Just all kinds of interesting things, and we've also got a pace by tug manning from jokey slot, also at that time, March, twenty two, and then jumping forward to the second album ground, come for free April, twenty four spend Thompson, talking to Mike Skinner for the Observer. He's just. He's just really really interesting. Also because he wasn't born in Birmingham, but but he grew up in Birmingham. You can still hear. From a Twang in. there. I mean, do you? Do you feel any like kinship? Just with him? For that reason? Yeah, I mean I I think one of the things about my home cities. We really good at mixing stuff up. It feels quite natural to us and I think he was another. Example of that is someone who was quite happy to mush on rose on, and also a bit more vulnerable as you say didn't feel the hat to so of any light, the kind of my own that was on offer from American rappers and I think again in Birmingham of space to experiment. I think that you don't necessarily get in London. Yeah I mean because there's not I dial boom. This does that song. It's too late which is. Really is a young man willing to be a emotionally vulnerable and then dry. Your eyes on a thinks on the second album you know I mean these are pretty soppy sophie so. You know. What does he call rap project? I think he's his name for the streets you know He. He Kuma attention while later. When did this conversation with the philosopher? John Gray, which is still. While you know from original part material to conversation with with. Bookstore dogs. It's just a really intellectually curious going. I did think competes blues was was really good I think a good things on the other albums, but he's still he still interesting. He mentioned Tang in that. Interview with Gavin. Just wanted to. Own Pass on the I watched the way tying documentary on sky documentaries I. Don't know if you've seen Cheryl you saying it. It's really good, actually annecy They were an influence to some degree on him, but I really recommend it. I think it debuted on American TV. SHOWTIME HBO Lost Give It's finally come here. It's in two parts, so it's two hours. If you've got a chance to see it, it's. Down I. Mean What what Fascinating Group of characters. And some of them have really charming. Just, not rebel. Our encounter with him in San Francisco. Do, I will never forget. Searches through this is the first time mark I ever went to America. On pages business and we were the San Francisco unless something he remembered I was aware that the Rizza was was sitting across from the white thing lounge, and then I realized that there will. I think he struck up a conversation with you gold we'll. He claimed to have met me. No you. Thinks Oh. Like. I know, you know. It was very funny anyway. That was a tangent tangent. He's called of Mikes and men. The thing I like about the streets and Mike Skinner. He lose to talks about in that interview. Clip is about how realness isn't real mess. It's just being genuine and an and it varies from context to context, and I think a lot of people don't get by when you know British rockers who here American rap. Rap while I've got to do the English version of that. That's not that's not the case. Is that go to do the thing that's relevant to your own context? And then then it'll make sense. It'll be authentic other than like it cannot be and I think that's one of the things that always shine through with with his stuff is that it is just just what he thinks and it's genuine. I comrades with interesting people this at least one track on this new mix tape album. He's done with time. Paula who we've talked a bit about on the podcast, not so where the dust penalties falsifying statistics weeks, but they the album, which has a long nine. Goal remember now is out this week, so that's that's the streets. Let's get to the Negro. Shooting reminds me and my thirsty plot unique. Dana Feeling Tony points to the sky. Feel free. Polo Lico. For behind me, swimming the tape say Coalfield Suelas. Smiles all easy. Lay from Sean Story. This is when we talk about new new pieces in the library. We say Cheryl please just stick around and jump in the mood takes, you feel you wanna say something about any of the mall and Jasper GonNa, Mention just just pitch in. We'll first pieces Hugh Nolan disc, music teco twenty fourth June nine, hundred, sixty, seven and. And he goes down to you. Folks ufo The hippest Hippie Club in London's especially a brief pulse, and he says what other clubs give constant light shows far out movies ragent from avant-garde American to vintage Lugosi horror I've got jazz groups, the latest sounds and pop straight six, freaking out having their addresses cutoff and the author of the original suzy cream cheese as Your presentation. Of? Take your jacket off. It's fantastic because Mitt firemen. The late McFarland is one of our Isis, the dolman that you back then moving fourteen, hundred sixty nine. Times George Harrison's by Ritchie Yorke. Says it's pretty interesting. Firstly he he's asked about why the Beatles of stopped playing live, and says you know we formed the whole time, probably in my opinion, anyway we've reached our peak in Hamburg, so he reckons the best is the life ban when they were playing in Hamburg before they were making records, and he says when we came back to England last time per gig. We regarded as a new thing, but already were was the past brought back. It's funny when you think about it. And then he says just bring up. The current is in a way. Revolution number nine was alright if it wasn't particular. Beatles source of thing. Can sometimes I feel like a spy? Just beetle? When there's a much greater jobs done in the world, it's it's a very. Short, Harrison is. Articulate and quite interesting man. My favorite Basil I was. Always, been my favorite. Cheryl favorite people. My cousins made me choose between the Beatles and the stones very early on I was about six. To be recognized FELICIA. To fight with. The, it was like I, had to choose, and I chose the stones actually. Yeah me, too. I think mark and I will say this. I chose the Beatles until. February may nine hundred sixty. Eight of the stones came on top of the POPs Promo video with face paint on doing jumping Jack Flash then I just moved the other side that that single things. I choose the Beatles. Sorry chaps all right. Of Yoko Ono and she does this thing when you go into a house where she leaves you in the room with the white piano, and she came back, and I was in the hall, looking at her paintings, and she was like, but the piano and I was like. I really have come to interview you and she was just so. What meaning? You know she couldn't believe I wasn't really sure to to look at the piano. Touch of the places where. Argo be far more interested in her work than his actually, yes. Along that generation where the Beatles really didn't mean that much t rex was my first great love music after device it rollers course. Have you on another talented. Okay nine hundred seventy three. This is Lillian. Russell The New York Sunday News into getting on the phone. All Green and Green Kentucky seducer on the phone. Just falls in love with him and he he's he's great. Dahlan, there are no tricks to life special formula. I'm not something you pick up and wine tight. On WHO TOMLIN PAYMENT! I, look in the mirror as I talked to you and I. See the face of a command some really good. Just got the lately Robson on board. Thanks to her niece. I'm finding her writing revelation. She's such a good writer. Talk. Bill! Into these buck owens the times and eighty nine. He's talking about how much he hated. Way Country Music. So sick of what music turned into I, tried to compromise to be quite blunt. It made me gag. Of course was was you would have known imagine through the face Cheryl but Before Michael Slow Very. It was my flatmate so over. At University. I lifted a flat with steep, saying Oh why David. Nineteen when of course you did did the Seinfield delivered with with sue steelers. The whole collusion gang, did you did you wrote for collusion? That's right. That's right. Olis' pieces. was visited collusion. We David guest on the podcast and he was just fabulous guest. I've met him a couple of times. Because unpolished southeast, London improvised music scene in bumps, and he's such a. he's such a good manner. You know we're we're. We're Real Fan David. He introduced me to so much music I bet well the thing is, he's so broad, minded you, we. We asked him what you'd listen. He's all is listening to seventy soul. Next piece. It's actually a reader's letter. The reader consulting be Neil kulkarni under a pseudonym to berate me. Make and this got him his GIG rising for me. Less, it was so good that. They, said we've got to hide his my. Gripe. Neal's talking about how they treat black knees really poorly in analysis maker in in the early nineties, he says on the one hand Weizer allowed any a positive language, the beach of words themselves blasts communities words in a way that renders them transparent to that simple polemical meaning. Since great pop poets are Buckley Passes Drake. Chilton, not green haze may feel Robinson. Whitfield can talk about the poetry of your markers. Alexa Kristin Hushes, but not your eyes tease all. Blacks aren't allowed to have the same hangups, the same depth value, nation, loneliness and feelings white. It's fantastic lesser basically. Neil got going down. The Jamaican consequence laws pieces on getting another recent addition to our writing team Chris Great. crissy's did a huge piece on the Spice Girl to rolling stone in ninety seven other. Great I love Chris Rising. He's very funny, can write his big reports. Let me see Jerry says I. Think Anybody who has a negative or positive view Nas. That's fine. That's freedom of speech. What creates democracy and Victoria? Conversely Poss- spices. My mom always said to me when you're older member taking thongs today and they just don't. Anyway. It's really great speaks for eight thousand workers really worth reading. That's mile up Jasper. I'll just mention a couple of things. It's running out of time I in which mostly because it's very funny. The aforementioned Ian Penman. Absolutely tearing to shreds a couple of tribute albums released in two thousand. He was asked review for the wire. BE ALBUM TO TIM. Buckley and tribute to the songs of Brian, Wilson, and the Beach Boys Brian Because Barklay just got a nine checking in that call coney latter, didn't they? Yeah, great segue. We have a good segue on the. PODCAST, but it's just a very funny piece because. Is there any point in anyone trying to recast the less space sale of Tim Buckley as singer Buckley belongs to the tunnel, so aren't these little individual setting both themselves and us. Not doing buys these to things up for inevitable disappointment. A couple of these are all right. The rest is utterly negligible. A hint of on mysterious Museau in the Phantom. The compilation shows only how musically well read and poetically blue vamp Buckley was and how rational empty most today's comparable musicians are that tunings line reading productions here. All flattened flavourless as the cheap beer. They likely exist on. POINTING OUT! We are also posting this week and Live Review Tim Buckley in San Francisco Sixty eight by Philip. elwood's The San Francisco Examiner, so you've got at either and. I suspect I have a feeling that that boxy trivia arm was essentially the brainchild of a hub. Cohen Tim's notorious manager or consultant. Tom White, so they basically because they on the publishing and. Three songs they they got all these artists to cover and hope just to make some quick money out of out of boxing fans, and yeah, this is pretty self idea. Well, if the Buckley tribute at least has a long AP's worth of semi, divine music, the Brian. Wilson is totally bereft of point over. The next up I. Just wanted to mention for you mark. Fun Interview with James Blood Ulmer thousand and three John Swinton talks to him for offbeat magazine. Jones asked him if he's still in touch with ornette Coleman whether. Following what what is doing. Goes, you mean the music. He's playing homologue six. That's what he's doing. But every show is different, says says Johnston. No. Every show is homoerotic Ornette Coleman. Shows is homilies. Don't play no different. Coleman Plays Coleman. He's like Miles Davis Miles. Davis don't care who the fuck paid them. He Played Miles Davis. I'm the same way I. Don't give a shit. The last thing automation is an interview with Public Service. Broadcasting sort of soundscape. Group recent is funny J. Will Goose Esquire, which is obviously a pseudonym and founding member of of public service. Broadcasting says I thought it was one of the worst. Most pretentious ideas ever had which he must have had a lot of giving equal themselves, Jay, goose esquire, but actually rather like public service broadcasting. I saw the problem that they did last year, and it was great. They had a of replica sputnik spacecraft that came up on stage because they were doing that that race for space album, and it was a really fabulous show so I think I'll leave it there because we are out of time. Can I just squeeze in? The end here, a funny live review Bernie space playing. During the Pride Festival in Brighton two years ago and Stephen. Dalton is unconvinced by her. By Hustle, X. Rated Act. He says off the pole dancing through I'm a slave. Four year spins pull the beaming mile reveller from the crowd for some light. Be Dsm coast during freak. Show the world's least convincing dominatrix. She's more. She's more ammon. Ask Them. That's good. So I think that brings us to the end of the podcast. It's been such a trait. Speaking with you show. Thank you so much joining. It's been pretty plug for adventure in Wonderland. She's out this week as an a book, book and print and print. Your kindle you can buy has fantastic. You cover which you just sent through yesterday. Cheryl please please go and buy that and Cheryl. Mojave called the basis. Caroline Sullivan and The coast of Tom Payson. We added this. With Tom Pike not long ago. If the hood on pages Cheryl, you must. It's very bizarre isn't a? Plane Guilt thanks. Anyway, so that's US done to. We will be back in two weeks with Nov, Loyd Grossman not talk about Spaghetti sources, but his early days as A rock critic in Boston in the late sixties Boston. Joyous. Yeah there you go. Anyway. Thanks for joining us and thank you again. Cheryl yeah. We got to go with Donny Ramp Ling's acid house starts as described. Terry, Farley. See thanks. Bye. Bye. Is Time Yeah. Don's. That is east owns. One of these records. Lynn. JESSOP. would. Regularly. Clean village crafts. SMART. SMART. Action Now! Could. Show in Shallan in people have been in the late one. It was just fucking hell. And suddenly. It a shootout and sheriff paperwork. Should boxy comes fiction. fucking country. I'm sure he started from. Some guy. Lights inspired. Stove yes! was. On. Tomatoes! Kind homeroom. That was Terri Farley conversation with Bill Brewster and frank. Broughton in two thousand and five, concluding this week's rock back pages podcast many thanks to special guests. Cheryl Garrett funded ventures in wonderland on Amazon and visit how Website Cheryl Garrett Dot com, the host Shabani askins and Mark Pringle. There was co hosted and produced by Jasper. Murison Bowie the rocks back pages. PODCAST is part of the Pantheon podcast network. You can find thousands of articles as well as hundreds of full length interviews rugs back pages dot Com. How about some of I got Jasper. Second where? Ten seconds. Stopping ten.