Is it society's fault if you become a criminal?
This is an ABC podcast. Hey it's molly hia today. We're going to hear about a famous criminal from Australia's post see if you can guess who we meet. He wears a big bucket. Might out of town on his head with a little rectangle every office that he can say at thinking or who it is. I mean medal. Buckets have never really been high fashion headgear a half day. One another hints. He had a large gang of all the people like him and he was Salida. Can you guess it's the Bush Ranger Ned Kelly? He was first arrested at age fourteen and was later hanged for his crimes. Today on short and curly we WANNA think about how and why people get into. Crime isn't old their own fault or not on with the show Ned. Kelly was an outlaw. A naughty boy he wronged and stole but I say he wasn't a wicked man. Even though that's how I voted five six seven eight. It was the nets fault he was born to be society forced into be bad guy on had nothing. No money all lock so he was made to live. Criminal Me. Why are you sitting by five playing guitar? We'll see why did you let a fire inside the podcast studio? Hey Carl I'm just having a little sing along nine. That was a song I wrote about Ned Kelly. The famous Australian Bush Ranger out law and criminal here. I Ned Kelly. But he was awful. Did I hear you say or rather sing that? It wasn't Ned Kelly's felt that he committed crimes. It absolutely wasn't nick. Kelly only did that stop because well the police were robbed and his family was full and he only killed in self-defence porn just wanted justice and the sharing of well and bad guys to get come up and okay the only one who can sing a song. Molly drop me a bait boom well. My name is Carl and I like science. That's enough whatever what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it matters. How Bad Ned? Kelly's life was or how the police treated him. There's never any need to assault and murder. He was the one who did all that stuff. You go blaming it on society and what not well I say I can double well today on short and curly. Can you blame society to how you live to doubt with ned? Kelly just a bad dude. Are we allowed to be cheeky? If there's no other choice almost we always try to be good new today. You thought. Y'All listening to short unkind Curly Ping Jordan Garelli. Let's put an ad Kelly aside for a minute and just think about why people become criminals like. Do you actually decide to become a criminal? Why don't we ask out brains? Trust I think they don't like choose to at the stock but then something happens and they just become one. Maybe it's also to do with like the people they grow up with in like how what type of tempo stuff have if they like like attain a judge. Sometimes your brain like does something where you like. Forget about other people's feelings and then you just to stop yourself. No often casseus like a thing that happens. I need money or something and I do it and then I think it was easy so do it again and again and they get more criminal and sometimes are destroyed for the thrill. 'cause like I get bored and by market looked into because some months keeps harassing them for not doing it. I think to be criminal. It's all about how you being raised. Ohio being brought up all say like you being bullied and stuff in new. WanNa try and do something worse when people come crippled not usually thought she's somebody else for and then it's like a line of people default and it doesn't really start anywhere so it's sorta therefore so their phone and what about you. Let's pause for thinking question but you can stop and get into a huge fight with your family and friends and cry and scream over an important philosophical question. You could just have a common interesting conversation where you learn from each other and grow as people right molly. I guess you could do so. Take a moment to think about this. You think people choose to become criminals. Hit pause now makes me really worried about this by that. You've lived in the middle of this small room call. It's cold setting a scene. Well speaking of setting a same. I want us to imagine back to win Ned. Kelly was a young man in the late eighteen hundreds or as I like to call them the late. Eighteen hundreds cheering this time. The Irish said Liz will often traded as second class citizens by the English settlers and targeted a lump by the police and guess who was Irish. Ned Kelly and his family. He went to prison a few times and eventually formed gang of outlaws and in eighteen eighty. He and his gang had a shootout with the police and he was captured. Admit the grizzlies. He was hanged also call. You left out the pot way. He was born really poll and his family was regularly bullied by the police because they were criminals and his dad died and then his mom went to prison possibly for something. That wasn't her fault so ned. Kelly tried to avenge her. Molly stop justifying everything. Ned Kelly Dude Saws a love Ned. Kelly. It's becoming obvious. And it's a little weird. I just think you're being way too hot on the guy. Put yourself in his shoes for a second. I can't I would never do any of the stuff ned Kelly. Oh we get it. You saw righteous well fine can you? At least imagine your a member of his gang. Its Eighteenth Seventy Nine. And you'll riding your voice alongside ned and the rest of the Kelly Gang Fuster Halsey. You'll leaving Gerald ary where you just carried out a huge raid on the town. You robbed the Bank of New South. Wales held more than thirty residents hostage and locked policeman in their own cell after a long day's riding the Kelly gang pulls up at a pub in the nearby town and decide to go in for Abreu and a Rieger Arabe Group. If you will I will in the POB you may to wise looking bartender named Matthias bid what can I get you stranger? Hey Chai we've got rob who you decide to show. Messiahs y'all lows and Concern Matthias. Mike Gang leader Ned. Kelly is making us do a lot of bad stuff. But he says it's okay because society has really twisted our arms into it Tell me more well. Nets is that we've basically got no choice but to be outlaws because the police have always treated people like us. I'M FAIRLY. It's true that society can make it easier or harder to make certain choices for example. If pretty much everyone in school plays a certain sport like nipple. He can make it much harder for you to decide that you want to try something. Different like say bobsledding right. Because your whole school tells you that you have to play nipple or they'll expel you forever. No not exactly what? What school did you go to count? You know what never mind. It's not just that everyone's telling you have to play netball you life just doesn't allow you any chances to try something like bobsledding right. So named Kelly had three things working against him. He was born into a family where crime was a part of their life. He lived in a society with the police expected him to be a criminal because his dad was and he was Irish which was a hard thing to be back in those days so he probably couldn't see any other choice. It's not just about seeing the choices. It's about actually having other choices. Ned was arrested at age fourteen and that meant the people who knew him and hung out with imprison will probably also involved in criminal activities and having been arrested. What have been hard for him to find other work. Plus once you've been arrested you more likely to be suspected for future crimes. Hey why is the piano player stopped playing my dear friends? Play a choon. Will you an old Lebron goody thanks Matthias that's what I'm here fault as you are and also to poor drink I see? It's kind of a two pronged job. This whole bartending thing. Imagine I love it? I've got a wife and kids so I'm just going to have to cut you off there Basho's guitar. Thank you piano player and thank you Matthias. What do the rest of you listening think about all of this. Maybe you should pause the show and have a mall or chat over another thinking question. There are all kinds of people who have the power to punish others. Police judges school principal. Even your teacher. Do you think the punishment those people give is always fair ause now back in the studio. Why the five. Maybe a bit too close to the file. Cards starting to see through an outlaws is just how easily misfortune can find and that this Malta crime then crossing moral line. Sometimes the guys in charge adjust by US. I was so deep in imagining I was in Ned. Kelly's crew I lost touch with the real world. Call it's been twenty years wife. No I'm I'm joking. Also what why is no wife but this show in about my love life? It's about Ned Kelly. And whether it was societies foltz on neds fault for how his life turned out his out. Brains trust well. If they treated him badly food whose whole life he might be might be headed blame society because they want main fair on him or nice to him he did cube a full but society also hated him for nervous. And so there's usually a chain of events to woods a crime but some in some of those events they. The person usually has a choice and they might be wrong choice. So it's still that person's fault it was society's fault to begin with but he could have just kept on running away. He didn't have to kill some people. That wasn't society's fault that I didn't make him kill those people. That was his choice. Well people back then. Were very harsh and judgmental an Iraqi. And he wouldn't have had the opportunity have a better life. I think Ned Kelly could have been a bit more of a pace will protests like the suffragettes or something instead of taking out his anger by killing other people. We all have the right to say nor he just chose the option because it was easy for him. It might have been society's fault but the police just couldn't let him go running around robbing people and murdering people see most of our brains. Trust THINK NED. Kelly had more control of his choices than you do. Come Cow Kakaako her call. I'm not making this big argument defending Ned Kelly just to annoy you because you do a lot of things just to annoy me. Oh absolutely but not this. I'm saying this because it's what Ned Kelly really believed. He wrote this enormous eight thousand word. Letter called the jewelry letter where he justifies all his crimes and lays into the police. Early hot. How that's a lot of words in a letter and I have the original copy right Kia. Shouldn't it be in a museum? It was how did you know what one thing at a time. Read me the best. Bits William with pleasure on page forty two. He justifies the murder of three particular policeman. Saying her. This cannot be called willful murder for. I was compelled to shoot them or loy down and let them shoot me so in that case he was saying that he only killed those policemen because they were going to kill him exactly. But don't you think it's all kind of gross? He could have written a letter apologizing for everything saying how sorry he was killing police. Who by the way are also human beings? I get what you mean call but just think for a second you have had such a lovely adorable life right. I mean I've had my ups and downs like I never did become pokemon master but you weren't born Pol or targeted by police where you know. I was not your just a nice well educated white Australian male who loves cats and science. How could you possibly know what you'd do if you were actually in Ned Kelly situation? I guess I don't know well I'm sending you back to the eighteen hundreds go rejoin the Kelly gang and get Samantha's warn the pubs really full. Now people pretty tense in here. Drinking ones go guns and my Gosh you have such excellent beads or at five. Rum's over there you do. If you'RE GONNA shoot take it outside and someone get out of here. Smashed One more glass and you're out the door and you not back for a week. Matthias veered into Peyton. Who'll up with school son? I'm starting to think that Ned Kelly probably didn't have much chance that he was ever going to be able to lead a non-criminal life but I still have a really strong feeling that people should be held responsible for their choices especially when those choices hurt other people. So how do we balance these out? Honestly it's really hard. Our whole law and criminal. Justice system is built on the idea that you make choices and we can punish you if you made a bad choice and we can do that because you offer free but when you look at the way that people's lives go in the world sometimes. It doesn't look like they're really that free socially they've got really limited options but everybody has difficulties in their lives. Everyone has times when it would be easier to do the wrong thing but we still blame them for doing something bad. So isn't Ned Kelly. Just making a bunch of excuses. He might be lots of the time. We have more options than we think we might say. I had no choice but actually there were lots of other options. We didn't consider but there are times when all of the options just suck if Ned Kelly was right if he's other options with things like starving to death because you can't get a job or letting the police keep harassing you because of your race because of who you hang out with all because of things you did in the past. Can we really say that? He should have chosen any of those things instead of becoming a Bush ranger. Thanks Matthias. You're an excellent confidant. Thank you. I'm a good to write a ten out of ten because there are. There are two roles to being about cable. I you have to give all the drinks to people who need them. How and then the the other part is kind of getting to know people and talking them through their problem. Cao Cao seriously man. Get Out of here back to being called. Oh my God. The Fi you live in the studio has really gotten out of control. Yeah so could you just like deal with it while I sing a little song? Because they'll just put it out with my best. Thank you at the little call. Didn't understand just wanted. Kelly did what he did by looking for. Nets is and looking at the law. He gets it just a little big. It wasn't leads fall that he was gone into travel. That circumstances word on his side but should he have killed was no other way for you to did And decide you. Will I have a question for you? How the participants don't bother knockin? Okay I'll ask the question if you were in Ned Kelly situation. You were a young Irish guy in Australia in the late eighteen hundreds do you think you would have become a Bush ranger caused now. Well thanks so much to Al Brains. Trust from two schools today Moolah state school on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland. They were Kobe. Eva Isak and Fred and from lansdowne primary school in West. Hobart Tasmania and they were lillies. Stella Silas Ruby Elena Sessia and Kelly and the amazing members of our short and Kelly gang he produced a Kyla Sloven Executive Producer. Justin Kelly and the head of Audio Studios Kelly Ridden and today's studio engineer. Bella trippy honor. Hey Cal one to imagine ourselves back to the POB for a nice vic- drink with balk eight matthias sounds delightful and rustic. Yes let's do it. Oh what's going on shootout? It's Ned Kelly's final shootout with the police. Would you do that? That's not relaxing. Sorry I found control this imagination baby with down. The cops are here. There's loads of them. He got his hammer on. And he's getting arose. Shooting back dropping stuck right in the middle of bullets at least imagine a some guns. These just bananas. I'm getting five with the Kelly. Gang will someone who has always respected the institutions of society. I'm going to join the side of the law. Then I'll see you in hell. Carl this this has been an ABC. Podcast check out the ABC kids. Listen it's full of educational and entertaining order programs. Call that's disgusting. I'm sorry but you need some self control to change your diet. There wasn't me beliefs. Swear I didn't fight and if it wasn't you that made that very suspiciously foty noise. Who did not who molly what what exactly. What do you mean? Well that very airy sound you just heard came from a new podcast. I've been listening to full noisy by nature. Listening to a podcast. That's all about five. That is a great idea molly but no noisy Bhai. Nature is a new show from. Abc Science and ABC kids. Listen that's all about the unusual weird and wonderful sounds that Australian nature makes including fluffing elephants seals. What this beautiful sound is made by. An elephant sailed breathing not fighting breathing. How cool is that? I would say it's more unfortunate in cool. Well Anyway. If you're a nature lover and a sound love like me. You should check out noisy by nature or recommended to younger siblings available. Wherever you get your podcasts okay. Let's try and make that elephant seal sailed no. I'm not doing that. This has been an ABC podcast check out the ABC kids. Listen Up. It's full of educational and entertaining order programs.