Prototype Series - Quarterbacks


now move the sticks with daniel jeremiah and bucky brooks all right block i'm fired up for this episode today focusing on the most important position forget football in all of sports the quarterback position and we have got some phenomenal guest lined up today we have outstanding gas we have hall of famer kurt warner joining us david car the former number one overall pick in my coach coach mike holmgren the super bowl winner who is also meant to what eight a lot of top level quarterback we have really a bonanza when it comes to quarterback knowledge i can't wait to share some insight did they shared with us on this podcast and if you're just checking out the prototype sears we already have one episode this up a that is the running back position you could find that nfl dot com slash podcast to your favorite podcast app and you can check us out there on twitter find us on twitter a move the sticks bookie at bucky brooks will be constantly feeding information where you could find the next episodes of this series in the prototype serious were taking one position per episode were talking to great gas a bucket myself also going through telling you what we look at when we evaluate the position in the book we wrap up after initial discussion talking to all these guests we try and come up with who we believe is the prototype at the position in today's nfl so a lot of ground to cover these episodes lot of ground to cover and i'm excited man let's just get right to it brady takes the shotgun snap the jets with the ball that like brady pressured rolls to his right john dorsey three drops back throws sector first you're lucky if he set out of the gun drop this simon the market's gonna baseball attorneys way out of trouble the left side looking looking in the end zone buyers touchdown toss the homes clean pocket throwing lawyer wants to touch the so let's jump in here looking at the quarterback position i say we start off at the top a we were looking for in a the most important attribute we could go through a list of things were looking for kind of are many checklist but if we're gonna start just one buck where do you start first thing for me is football intelligence a we talk about the quarterback position being the most important in all of sports what is allowed the process when you're the quarterback you having to deal with so much information that is that you're dispose you gotta take in the play call you gotta said the protection you gotta know what the play is you have to know who is moving if there's any emotion involved you have to know the concepts you have to be adjustments based on the defensive front end the coverage and you have to do all of that while game is moving at a million miles an hour i just believe that you have to have a special kind of intelligence to be able to play the position in no matter how talented you are if you're not right from the neck up it is hard to play well in the national football league at that position without a level of football intelligence nuts a good way to look at it i i did a study and i've referenced it previously but i did a study when i was with the baltimore ravens went back and looked at all the hall of fame quarterback now obviously this is different areas the game has morphed and changed and involved but i tried to find you know what they all had in common in what i noticed in discovered was all different sizes some guys with huge arm some guys didn't have big arm strength some guys were i mean even some guys were extremely accurate some guys at work as accurate 'em but one thing that they all had in common book which poise a that was the defining trait that i had in each and every one of them and how china defined poise give me a little bit difficult in the scouting process but the way i describe it i showed a clip of tom brady playing in the snow and there was a rush coming around him there's no all over the ground his head was always up eyes were always up calmly sliding shuffling in moving within the pocket get an delivering the ball where it needed to go on time in the perfect spot in amidst all the chaos because the game is a cluttered game it's a cluttered pocket you have to be able to function what in all that craziness and not just with the people around you but also you're in opposing stadiums you've got whether you've got all different scenarios guys hey guy runs the wrong rout what kind of poise you have a third and seven do you have the poison the communist to be able to be able to reach the defense and make the correct decision that's how i define the word poison and it's kind of one of those things you know when you see it fucking every great quarterback has every quarterback does have the boys i i kinda equated to being able to play in it with a quiet mine in the mist of chaos so everything around the may be going a hundred miles an hour but they're able to kind of play on their own speed and they're not rattled by what is going on situation and circumstance doesn't change the way they play i think the final trade for me when i'm looking at quarterback we talked about football intelligence you talked about poise but then i believe it comes down to accuracy in decision making can you put the ball in the right spot when it needs to be there and can you make good decisions you have a where we talked about you have the teams fate in your hand when you're the quarterback because you're the guy the touch the ball on every down so what you do with it really really matter so you're judgment the decisions that you make with the ball really determines whether the team wins or loses that's a lot of responsibility so taking care of the ball being a great decision maker in being able to throw the ball exactly what you want it i believe the quarterbacks have to be able to do those couple of things to be successful in the league my big three i start with poise decision making accuracy will get a chance to discuss that a little bit later on with david carr also now you're gonna enjoy our conversation with mike holmgren coach mike gives you a affectionately call him a block nobody knows more about the quarterback position is had more success over the years then mike holmgren you're gonna enjoy that conversation but first up it's are conversation with the hall of famer kurt warner in a trust me buck the folks they're gonna enjoy this because kurt offers tremendous insight and what makes a great quarterback and how do identify the flight recorder warner factor throw rainbow the far sideline lebanese saint louis rams are champion of the world my first question for you a right out the shoot here is a you took their last nap in two thousand nine and where we are in two thousand eighteen a lot of things have changed at the quarterback position but i wanna start with what is the same what what what's the value then there continues to be extremely value today well i mean i think the game from the standpoint of what you're asking a quarterback to do an what's most important how do you play in the big moment how do you play third down situations in the red zone when the game is on the line all those things will never change it's the most important position in sports the most important position in are games at those things will never change i think how you get to those points a has changed quite a bit you know so much more throwing at the line of scrimmage so much more run pass option so much more wide receiver screen i mean you've got receivers sievers a you know back when i played that if they got six or seven targets the game that was a great game i mean now if you do get anything short of twelve or thirteen targets because half of the line of scrimmage and i think that's where the game is change there's so many more balls being thrown within five yards of the line of scrimmage but i still think what makes a great quarterback what makes a difference maker what what makes a franchise guy stays the same and that's how you play in critical moments throughout the course of a game you know you're talking about critical moments in how you perform in big moments i think that speaks to a player's a mental toughness when you're looking at quarterback how are you able to judge or evaluate quarterbacks mental toughness 'em well i mean i think there's there's numerous different things you know we just kind of mentioned it there you're right thi ability win the game is on the line ability when you're you're late in downs or you're late in the game and you find yourself down how do you play in those moments i think the other thing when you look at mental toughness is a v ability to bounce back from a mistake you know there's certain guys that make a mistake and then they play afraid of making another mistake there's other great quarterbacks and make a mistake and just say i'm not gonna make another one but i'm not gonna let it changed the way i play the game and i think a great example is a you look back to that monday night game between the rams and the chiefs 'em last year annual fifty whatever the fifty whatever a patrick mahomes throws numerous interceptions exceptions in a lot of times i think people watch that and go oh my gosh he is through another one it's like stop stop waiting and start throwing it around then i look at that and i go that's the kind of guy one you know they're gonna have games when they throw five and six interceptions but they're not afraid to throw five or six interceptions they're not gonna stop swinging just because they've minister because they're having an off game and i think that's a big part of the mental toughness that no matter what has gone wrong up to this point i could still make the next i will still find a way to get the job done and get are team in position to win i think that's a big factor when you're talking about mental toughness and i love that i love that whole answer there i wanna go in the scouting process we after not only you're you're what you see on the field is trying to talk to you sources when you go in school and you're trying to learn about these players and one of the parts of the report you gotta put their athletic background and i know you loved hoop i know you're a great basketball player in just kind of looking at this thing and doing a little research matt ryan sam donald tony romo ben rothlisberger andrew luck these guys were all phenomenal basketball players so if you're trying to find a correlation and what carries over from the quarterback position now what did they take from the basketball court what is that connection well i mean i think so much of the position is understanding guys around you you understanding what you're seeing understanding movement 'em so that to me is part of why love playing basketball because it's not so much the physical side of it you know can i jump higher cannot shoot better than any other guy but can i save them you know when i watch a defender and how they're playing do i know how come off a screen or where i need the go to get the ball and so i think there's that spatial awareness that is so important for quarterback is trying to see as many people owned the playing field at one time understanding slight movement and understanding the kind of movement you know i talked to you i coach young quarterbacks coach in high school and i'm always talking to them about what it means to rita guy in what it means for hey guys it'd be opening oftentimes when you're talking high school guys they simply see the corner out there and they go well the corner was in position an i always try to take it to the next level okay where were the hips of the corner did this on the corner turn back to the line of scrimmage because if they did he's got no chance attorney get the throw behind him escapes rovan now you gotta take the throw underneath because he's in a position to fall back and so i think anything you could do athletically to learn about spatial awareness and we're guys are and how their position affects what they can and cannot do a can help any player at any position but specifically a quarterback an you know that was one of the things that that i always loved about basketball is figuring out where everybody was and how they were moving i think the other thing is you know a lot of people look at me in and they'll look and say that guy say non athlete you know the he has no athletic ability can i look at athletic ability a lot different than a lot of people maybe that's because i'm slow and i can't job but i look at it from the standpoint that it's their ability to control your body in certain spaces to do what do you wanna do in you you mentioned some guys like tony romo 'em tony romo was a great athlete for quarterback he had the ability to to move and manipulate the pocket in by time you know and understand how to move a to create a little bit of separation and then they ability to make throws in different positions and you know when you play basketball it's not always you know like in even if you don't get the always dropback five steps and have a perfect pocket step into you're throwing make it you know when you're playing basketball it's not always oh wide open up standing outside the three point line and i could just shoot a three after have the ability to maneuver your body and make throws from different positions and i think any other sport where you have to do that i think it's why you know cuyler murray in a patrick mahomes things are so good at making those off schedule off balance those 'cause they play baseball you play baseball how often do you catch the ball and be able to take you're crow hopping throw it most times you run into you're laughing at the back in you bodies out of position and so they ability to learn how to control your body and make throws in different positions or do anything athletic in different positions i think it's very key and it's something that that you learn a lot when you're playing basketball you know you speak to the importance of having f lettuces them at the position and they were talking about movement skills and the like but we've seen an influx of these super athletes that are kind of kind of coming into the league playing the quarterback position is different in a quarterback that we've traditionally sane when you look at do a threat throwers or playmakers like lamar jackson electric collar murray was the biggest adjustment that those guys have to make to being able to play the game successfully in the nfl i think the biggest justin i see with a lot of these athletic quarterback says they've gotten so far you know when i was playing you know you're athleticism would take you to you know maybe junior senior in high school maybe freshmen in college and then at some point it was like okay that's gone now you gotta play quarterback these guys are such great athletes they get farther and farther and farther sometimes all the way to the nfl simply based on athletic ability in they don't learn how to play the quarterback position the nuances of the quarterback position until much later and sometimes once they get into the nfl so i believe the biggest transition as i watch a lot of these great athletes in playmakers play the position its ability to understand what they're seeing in getting the ball out on time time consistently you know it's the things that are we say and he gets any nfl level you have to be able to and you mentioned it earlier book you gotta be able to make the playoffs you know you gotta be able to see in make the throws that you're supposed to make nearly every single time in that could be a simple slant ralph but it's about throwing it on time it's about thrown against the right coverage and what i often see with a lot of these athletes is there a little bit behind in seeing anticipating and making those quick decisions because i think they've always relied on i could take a little bit longer make sure i see it if it doesn't happen then i could just create but they miss a lot of easy things and things that can make the game or the situation easier for them because they're a little bit behind timing wise is probably the biggest thing i see from just playing the quarterback position for a lot of these young athletes that leads me perfectly to the next the next question here kurt first of all and just throw out some numbers here and how the game's changed i'm gonna let you listen to a little clip from a former teammate coach of yours and i wanna get you're a reaction to it but we always talk about on the podcast the difference between a ball placement completion percentage can be two totally different things and i give me an example you're last year in two thousand nine you completed sixty six point one percent of their passes is eight quarterbacks in the nfl completed sixty five percent or greater this last year in two thousand eighteen nineteen quarterbacks completed sixty five percent or greater if we go to the college game in two thousand nine fourteen quarterbacks over sixty five percent in two thousand eighteen twenty four quarterbacks over sixty five percent so i don't know the people are getting a more accurate i think the throws you're getting a little easier but you touched on anticipation and importance of it and i want you to listen to a former teammate here as well is he former coaches torry hold it mike martz talking about kurt warner when it comes to anticipation timing inaccuracy around with that twenty two yards in the balls to be thrown two yard inside the numbers dropped back encloses a in a ball thrown two yards inside the numbers just guy why you don't see guys he's five yards from his breaking point shows you turn the ball hit him right in the chest it's a mess through i've ever seen in football the best i've ever seen by anybody i know the exact throw the mike martz is talking about their a there was a blitz buddy other team the guy was coming scott free 'em and it was the beginning around you know people say the began the twenty two yard in twenty twenty two yard in the tory was talking about with the house built my house a weed through that from every direction to everybody on the football field 'em but you talk about that timing is mike martz with a stickler of here's you're drop it's a quick hitch let the ball go i was fortunate to have guys like guys ican tori that were so good at being exactly where they were supposed to be when they were supposed to be there that we developed crazy sense of timing so that play mike was talking about linebacker coming free i knew he was coming free in a lot of signs in those situations you kinda gotta dump it off to the flat or the quick hot not a twenty two yard in rout a but i just knew that i know i think's it's gonna be there on hold until the last second i put a little more lost on it then then i normally did so they hit and all i did was way the here 'cause i knew it was either gonna be a big blue or a screen because the ball was going right at the safe and sure enough i think does what he always does any hits his mark and he comes breaking in in a and makes the catch and gives us a big play in the crowd goes nuts but you know is what we were built on it was what we were all about and i was so fortunate that i got myself into that dolphins you know a lot of people ask how did you have so much success early will be all fence and what mike martz did any idea but timing in anticipation it just fit my skill set you know i could have been in a lot of different offices that didn't fit me quite as well but what we did and what mike harped on what the guys we had around us 'em it just fits my skill set it and you know he's prided myself on being able to anticipate and you're talking about that spatial awareness knowing where guys can get to end where they can't get to where the whole in the defense is so why could let the ball go as early as i needed to knowing that there was no defender able to get to that point you know church in sticking with the theme in talking about anticipation a if you could pick a trait for quarterback quarterback would you rather have a guy with a strong arm or guy who is able to throw within just a patient oh yeah it's not even a question i i don't even consider arm strength in really anything you know there there's one factor when arm strength and i believe you have to be able to make certain throws off schedule with their feet not in place to become great at the nfl level so you have to have a certain level of arm strength but without question bucky it's anticipation inaccuracy because it doesn't matter how strong arm is if you know windows throw it in where the throw it in more importantly where the defense can't get to a you're always going to be more successful than if you have to wait another second see come open and and then try to rip it you're gonna have more problems that way no matter how strange stronger arm is a then if you have the ability to see things ahead of time anticipate a throw so in thinking about that when we look at these quarterbacks that are coming out of college and we're breaking them down and we're talking about guys up certain things they can improve on when they get to the pros can you improve you insist the patient in time it or is that something that you just either you have it or you don't have it i yeah that's always a hard one when you're a guy that has it's a it's hard to say i did i learn it did i always have a sense of that again i think a lot of times it has to do with playing a lot of sports and being in a lot of different situation being able to anticipate a lot of different things but i do believe there's ways to work on it but a lot of it comes down to trust as much as anything trusting what you see you know trusting what you know in terms of the movement of a defense trusting the guys that you were throwing too i think a a lot of situations you don't get the throw the bang eight a hundred times and so you gotta know when that guy hits his fourth outside foot he is gonna stick it and he is gonna go to a certain point so i could hit my staff and i could let the ball go and and so a lot of that anticipation comes down to can you be with the same guys run the same plays against the same looks enough that you could build from where you're at right now some guys i believe just have an extra sense of anticipation but i do believe there's ways to do it but it takes a whole bunch of trust and i think the more chance you get the b with guys for a longer period of time the better chance you have of developing a little more anticipation with those types of players i wanna stay on this subject i know were were going long on this aspect of the position but there's nothing more important when you're talking about anticipation timing and accuracy in kurt you know now that you you go on the recor talking about these college quarterbacks as we do and i'm sure you hear from a lot of same folks on social media that we hear about but but look at his stats look at his completion percentage we talk about not scouting the box score but can you explain the folks that could hear from hall of famer the difference between completions in ball placement yeah no question i mean to me you could talk about completions where you talk about accuracy in timmy accuracy was always be ability the put the ball exactly where it needed to be free rizzi receiver to make the catch it and sometimes that was you got tight coverage on the inside shoulder can i put it on the outside shoulder so we get a four yard completion instead of that guy knocking down or if you know a guy running a shallow rather that's a four yard rout do i put it one step in front of him so we can make the catch an attorney continue to go somewhere with it some time it's there's a fender running out in front of him so i gotta put it on their back shoulder a you know it's those kinds of things when i think about accuracy and you're right a lot of people will look at numbers and say well he completed this percentage of his passes and i'm always watching games going man because that guy i've got an extra three yards four yards five yards if that ball was in better position i don't think there's anybody better in the league and obviously the stats speak to that too is drew brees when you watch him play his ability to control the football even on deeper throws in that really becomes timmy the the biggest thing is that far they get down the field the tougher it is to be accurate as we talk about the put it on a bad shoulder they keep one foot in front of you know we used to talk about you know twentythree yard in throws you wanna put it right on their face mask so they didn't have to extend they didn't have to go low it was right on their face mask so we could protect them if a safety was hitting them or linebacker was falling back 'em but yeah that that to me is the differences you could talk all you want about completion percentage timmy it's about are you putting your receiver in a position to protect himself to make sure she could make the catch the keep but away from the vendor or maybe more importantly v ability to run after catch we talk about receivers all the time and their ability to run after catch a big part of that in my opinion is the quarterback but they have playing with them that puts them in position tonight after losing step and not have to slow down to be able to catch things in stride and make guys miss and make plays after the catch you know you have the opportunity to play a lot of football before you get to the national football league and had a chance to really make it a plan any arena throwing the ball around the yard when you were collegian when you look at these quarterbacks that are coming into the league how important is it to have a reza made it does have a number of throws that allows you to really evaluate what they are as passers so you could reject what they will be at the next level i don't think there's any question that the more throws the more you have to evaluate the more situations a quarterback has been in a the better chance you have to evaluate them yes but but i think the better better handle you have on what kind of quarterback you're gonna get an a you know it's one of the hard things about evaluating these college guys you know very well i mean i want some of these college quarterbacks and i don't watch much of their tape as you guys do but i go through three or four games games where i'll see him throw bubble screens and go round and i'm thinking to myself and i don't know how to tell you how this is gonna project to the next level i mean it's person could be great anthony scrambled arable don't forget those ceram yeah right exactly so it's it's so hard because so much is predicated before the ball is even snapped in yeah of course at every level you know there's a level of pre snap reads and understanding where you're gonna go and where you're matchups are but it's at such a high level in college so much is determined beforehand that it really is hard for me to really kinda see forwarding okay when we put him into the nfl offense an you know you can't just base it off of my guys better than your guy or you know i got two guys out there will make that work and you actually after reads stuff a it is very difficult i give an example baker mayfield fermi was very difficult to scout two years ago 'em and you saw a lot more kinds of throws from baker so you knew he could throw the football a a lot of different ways but they had such a gadget all fence where you know lots of fakes over here and then a guy who's running wide open down the other side line and he throws then he gets a big touchdown and you're like well that's great but i don't know what that means i think everybody in the nfl could make that throw for touchdown what's it gonna be like when there's a guy on his back shoulder and you gotta make that throw you know or is getting pressure 'cause they can't stand in a huge pocket like a keiler murray did this year and he's got a standing there and deliver throwing so those things are hard to calculate when you have teams better better than most of the teams if they play their schemes better than most of the teams if they play and how is that gonna project when everything gets a little bit tighter in now you've got to just be a better football player in those you know little nuances over those small windows and you can't always project that it takes a little bit of time to see what they're gonna be at the nfl level no doubt kurt we've talked about we were looking for on the field now obviously a huge component is is what the makeup is like four players and leadership is a is a huge aspect of that in on the scouting side you're constantly trying to dig and talk to coaches and teammates to learn about them as leaders which kind of leads me into a little another sound bite here from one of your former teammates larry fitzgerald talking about situation he had which you and i want you to pick it up out of despite an end just kinda riff on the importance of leadership at the position depending on your personality he knows how to cute so if you're a guy they can't deal with being criticized and he's not gonna do what he's gonna parents you wanna but if you're a guy that needs to be jumped on they'll do that even though we jump on me so matter what the plan against seattle seahawks coastal one of yours i warned you get two hundred yards like her immediate about six more your caesars windsor it looked at me said in china will lose games or there's only one shoe a out i'll i'll never forget a that moment it's a veto 'cause you know i come here that arizona in you know it was about changing the culture about changing what we believe in what we were trying to accomplish and what was most important 'em an you know is a time period win seattle was pretty good with matt hasselbeck in kind of owned or division and we were trying to to take that next step in become that team a you know that would you know kind of own the division for awhile and so we're up in seattle a we're beat him late in the game in a yeah i remember you know one of the coaches came over to me first and said hey you know larry's he's close to a hundred yards in you know once again another ball over a hundred in i couldn't believe it i'm like here we are trying to just change this thing and get a win in in larry once they get two hundred yards so i became a little piece of my mind a whip and as i said it wasn't so much the point of yeah i didn't care if we got a hundred yards that in carefully through its delivery one more time it was simply just the mindset at that point in the game is that i want guys to forget about v individual at that point and you wanna think about what do we need to do to finish this game in get where were trying to go in and you know there's no better opportunities as a leader and then when one of your other leaders like larry i mean everybody looked up to larry and rightfully so the he plays the game the way he carries himself the face of the franchise in arizona but that was one of those opportunities that i saw when i was there and it's like oh this is perfect you know no vents the larry 'cause i know where it's gonna go out and do his job and is not necessarily a selfish office player but with a great opportunity to go okay let's use larry as an example so every young guy standing on the bench you know everybody that here's this story knows okay this is more about it doesn't matter if you're larry fitzgerald or fourth guy on the depth chart as a wide receiver it's not about the individual ever it's about what we're trying to accomplish is a team and i thought lyria mentioned something else early in that that soundbite when he said it's understanding how to talk to different people timmy leadership is not okay it's it's cookie cutter well this is how i leave this is what i'm going to do in each and every situation i don't think that's the case when you've got fifty two other guys in the locker room and everybody comes from a different place and everybody is motivated a different way leadership becomes about getting to know all of those individuals and what makes them tick how you're gonna get the best out of that individual and it might not be the same and you know what i realized about larry larry hated to be called out in front of his teammates yeah that was the one thing you know you wanna be that model guy always you know did the things the right way and so i always knew with larry that if i wanted him to change something that never do it again call amount of meeting column out in front of the young guys in and he hated it but what i knew he was gonna go fix it because he didn't wanna get a you know i kinda cold out that same way and then i had other receivers and other guys that i played with that you almost had the make every idea seemed like it was their idea you know go have a conversation where the put your arm around him and then eventually they would give you one of them they wanted them to get to and it was like oh man that is a great idea why don't you go do that from now on but they took ownership of it and when they took ownership of it you know they they were gonna go out and do that to the best of their ability in so that is a big part of leadership in my opinion especially in a locker room is figuring out what makes all these different guys pick and then pushing whatever that button is to make sure you get the best out of her final question for me i think you're the perfect person the answer this when you look at quarterback in the nfl landscape please explain to me what is the differences between a system quarterback in a franchise quarterback 'em well i mean first of all a i think all quarterbacks are system quarterback you know i mentioned it earlier that i got into the system with mike martz that just fit me to see you know i went to new york and you guys will know as well as anybody everybody thought it was awful lot like this guy can't play anymore but i found myself in a system that just didn't fit what i did now we found ways to win and make plays here and there but just didn't fit my skill set it in you know i often say this how many great quarterbacks do you know that if played and had great success in multiple systems i mean you could maybe count on one hand and a lot of a a lot of you would vary and go well maybe in a different place but they still ran the same type of system in that different place in it just doesn't happen because great quarterbacks are great because they find a system that place to their strengths and so that's why i believe all quarterbacks are a system quarterback is that you know you could give me a play in the west coast alvie could give three quarterbacks a place in the west coast offense in one quarterback would love it the next guy goes it's okay i could use it and then third guy go i hate that play i don't wanna run that play ever and it's a great way for the right guy but you have to find what fits you and so so i would start by saying i think all franchise quarterbacks are system quarterback back they they they play better with in a particular system and if they could find that system in stay in it you're going to see greatness you know drew brees tom brady i mean the list can go along with these guys stayed in one place for a long time they developed a system around themselves in that's why they were able to be great i mean i would never create a system or wanna stay in a system that didn't play to my strengths and you'd be swimming upstream all the time but then you know we all know there's also some quarterbacks that are franchise guys are guys that can carry the team with their right arm that could benefit from being in a great system being around great players having great coaches at put them in positions to succeed but never get to that point of being franchise type guy but i'm a firm believer that every quarterback is a system quarterback every great quarterback finds themselves great because they're surrounded by great players great coaches but they're in a system that fits what they do kurt last question for me we have we have a lot of decision makers around the nfl general managers a personnel director is a lot of scouts as well a lot of people that look to the shoulder aspiring scouts and wanna go in that field so if you're gonna give all these evaluators at the position you played at a hall of fame level if you could just giving one piece of advice when evaluating this position what would it be yeah i mean you guys know it's so hard to give one piece of advice for this position a but if i if i was giving them i mean one piece of i'm gonna give it to abide by the first one is always going to be how do they play in the moment how do they play in the biggest moment because to me of all the traits you want in a quarterback the biggest one is we need when we need him to make that throw for that play or that drive in that moment kenny do it in not everybody can do that so that's the first thing i would look at it look at those moments in games in their career and how did they play in the moment and then the second thing is i think it all comes down to decision making in decision making can be twofold for me it can be you know touchdowns interceptions as we see the the russell wilson aaron rodgers and how well they protect the football so they very seldom put their team in harm's way but i think this is you're making is also be ability to see and make the labs ability to make those throws they're supposed to make almost every time 'cause if you get a quarterback that can do that and could protect the football for you you're gonna be in a lot of games with opportunities to win you couple that with quarterbacks play well in the moment and then you're gonna have a chance me a championship team you're in you're out oh i have one question before you run one of the things i was thinking of were were were always just for my own personal sake but we're always trying to when you're talking to coaches and try and find out these you know as a kid loves you put in the time as he is he doing all these extra work 'em most guys you played was would you would you produce a notebook like when they're when you're watching tape throughout the week would you keep track of that particular no because one of the things i'm thinking of is a quarterback tells you hey i love the process and all that stuff okay well you're coming out here once you bring you know put you kept during the year i'd like to just look you know you kept yeah i i didn't necessarily have no books but like for me the way that i prepared every week was i mean we had or or game plan so i would have my doubts on my game plan but then i drew up every single play that was ever put in the game plan on my own you know someone they were the first and second down stuff i would draw up every play i mean sometimes be a hunter plays that withdrawal up you know i'd ride in my house i ride in my notes i'd ride in what i was doing on every covered so i always had notes 'em you know everything within are often say and that's what i i always find it fascinating when people say do you enjoy the process you because to me there's so many different things that go into that what does that mean like i didn't enjoy going out and dropping back a hundred times you know i i didn't enjoy that part of it you know and they all season of when i was a pro i very seldom picked up a football you know so i wasn't out there because the one thing i knew is i know how to throw a football i'm not gonna forget how to be accurate with the football so what i did is i went and played basketball or i went and worked my feet and i did the things that i wasn't necessarily good at in the off season so i think enjoying the process convene so many different things you know 'cause they all season to the process but i enjoyed once he gets his nose like give me in a room and let's talk about the wise and how you run stuff and who attacking and why were attacking that's what i love the hardest thing was how do you enjoy that process in the off season what do you do you know especially when you can't sit down with coaches in you can't go through stuff because so much of that process process has to be maybe on a board but on a field right with other guys i can't just simulator what i'm gonna see by foot and two receivers out there and calling out of her particular out in so that's the one thing i i think a good way to do that though the real quick what one thing is like if we're just trying to when you're talking to these kids right you're trying to learn about them i think what you're hitting on those a good point in terms of what is you're walk us through you're weekly process of of how you're getting ready fern opponent may mean you're not producer notes but just kind of tell me on one day i'm focused on this in and i'm gonna just in terms of how they prepare for the week because everybody's gonna say oh you know i i love it i'm passionate about it i take it seriously but there's there's gotta be a way we could try and find find out more get more information there yeah i'm but i think that's a great you know great way they go about it is what it is you're process because again you know you get guys that do it differently you know you'll ask people how much tape you watch and i always find that has a sticky subject because you know you hear all about peyton manning and how much tape he watches and how good he is before the snap then i remember early on in my career that i was watching you know table and the saints defense in i remember or you know watching a corner in you know team before me they threw a slant in the corner jumped the slant and picked it off you know and i remember that watching tape so i went in the game we call the slant and i drop back and throw this land and i get on my back foot and i hesitate and going okay so you're gonna jump this one and he didn't jump it i missed the slant because i was late because i watched the tape and i go well he did this last time i better be leery in so i became a guy that i watch tape i watched enough tape but i watch tape to get a sense of what the scheme was but i never want it to you based anything i will go you know one of the trust my eyes so everytime i got into a game it was never why some do this on tape or i expect them to do this i was the guy that wants to react and see and trust what i saw in and be able to anticipate off of that so i became a guy if you're talking about how much did you watch i would probably be a guy that said i didn't watch that much tape you know now again it's all relative i watched enough to get what i need like if you ask a guy that everybody's gonna say well i watch a lot of say well okay what exactly does that mean what do you watch for an you know another to go the next step is i i work with brock osweiler and we would come in and watch tape an we would watch tape in you know we talk about whatever and then all of a sudden bronx going up on the board and he goes well here i might do this and i might remaking it might change of protection and go over here and then i or i may go and i'm just like brock quit trying to be peyton manning you know he got so caught up in the process that he couldn't just go play because he was over thinking everything and it didn't play to a strange so he was watching too much tape for what he was as a player and handcuffed him out to be the player that he was and so again i i think it's fascinating because you have to figure out who the player is an as you said what strikes in those strange what do you do on a weekly basis to allow you to be successful on the field because you know what somebody does might be completely different than what i do but it was based on me knowing what i needed it you know other guys might not be as good as throwers is i was so they gotta go out there and they gotta work and they gotta throw more out than i did in off season mine was more making sure that my feet were better and i had a better feel in the pocket and had that pocket awareness that spatial awareness so i think they're great questions and you know maybe the biggest one is tell me who you are as a quarterback and how that relates to how you have to prepare that may be different than somebody else because knowing who you are as a player i think it's three fourths of the battle of knowing hotter go through the process that's fantastic makes a lot of that is awesome i love the mayor's fun guys anytime they want me i love talking ball block look you can't say kurt warner enough forgiving us a time today to to really dive in deep at the quarterback position and i don't even know where to start buckeye i think we both have pages full and notes of things we learned from that conversation yet it learned a ton from the hall of famer i i think his his points on a throwing with anticipation of resonate because so much of what we talked about in the run up to the draft and when we're evaluating quarterbacks aken you thought got open can you anticipate if you don't have outstanding arm talent kinney road west touched timing in anticipation so dear kurt explaining explain what it really is i think it should allow our listeners and everyone to kind of understand when i'm watching the game and i see a quarterback let the ball go well before the receivers that is break that's the kind of anticipation that you expect from franchise quarterbacks i love the connection in between basketball the way he saw are typically put it about justice spatial awareness we've talked a clay helton you sc coach about that before he's had a lot of success with point guards in high school sam donald being one of them and making that transition i think that's a great correlation between the hardwood as well as the grass there a at the quarterback position and the other thing that i took away buck is you know he he talked about his advice you would give value waiters and he talked about the fact of the big moments be important to the big moments and i feel like that's a point that you've consistently only harper gone on the move the sticks podcast for years about how do they play on the big stage that carries more weight it does kitty weighed in in we've talked about we talked about it a off line but when you think about like sam donald and somebody other quarterbacks but really were sam darnold a those big moments how did they play on the biggest and brightest stage is how they perform when everyone knows the ball in their hands the game is riding on the quarterback can the quarterback make plays and i'm a firm believer that look you're creatures of habit if you get used to making those plays at the lower levels you make those plays junior sent to the upper levels it's not a coincidence i think when we look at tom brady tom brady is so comfortable in those moments because he has done it time and time again throughout his career and so you know when he gets the ball in a few minutes situation in the playoff odds are that he's going to find a way to get the team into the end zone he's gonna make the right play he's going to be the catalyst to win a i just believe you have to see how gas performing the big stage because ultimately that's what they're gonna do in the big stage when they had the opportunity newly absolutely i i was really i again i just learning throughout this whole process what i love about this prototype series is were learning hopefully along with the listeners here as we go along still we're gonna talk to the bucky one of your former coaches there mike holmgren who knows a qb position as well as anyone but up next it's a quarterback it card david carr was the first overall pick and he owns recor it i don't know if many people know this you're gonna learn this when this conversation and he owns in nfl recor did i believe will never be broken a day first of all thank you so much for taking some time with us today i i guess i wanna go back to a to your process a leading up into the draft in when we're looking at from evaluated standpoint let's flip it and look at it from a player's standpoint k a what did you feel like maybe going into you're final year the fresno state that you need to show in order to prove that you're worthy of being the first overall pick or even a first round pick well it's interesting because as i think what i was trying to show and what they actually wanna see you're probably two different things you know like when you're when you're a college kid you you feel like it's all about the physical it's all about how hard i can throw the ball how much can i lift how fast can i run and you get caught up in that because that's what you that's what you are naturally just thrown into after last game as okay we gotta get ready to run fast in a straight line it who cares like you watch tom brady run and don't care yes so i i i didn't i didn't like i didn't really learn what was necessary until several you know really i mean several months later on in the nfl i figure out okay this it doesn't really matter on my forty was today they'll make the right decisions right to throw the ball row supposed to accurately on time so i think think that's the dilemma that they all have to kind of struggle with and i remember training with derek before his a drip before the draft him for all his workouts and i'm like this stuff is all great and we had a trainer we had one of my good buddies is training and run it in and going through all the drills i was like i gotta get you ready to play a football game like a a real nfl football game so it's it's what do you know about the dolphins what what can you decipher from what they're showing you and how could you make the appropriate decisions and throw the ball accurately on time and so in practice we would push not just completions but you know they were just out there with me and him and sort of receivers throw it is early as you possibly can like really push the envelope with timing right in and that's gonna help you i used to get caught up in i'll just wait a little bit longer throw harder right it's like it doesn't help you know when you're facing proble corners that's the curse of a strong arm it really is and you see guys all around the league now they still do like josh allen i don't know if we'll ever have to worry about anticipation you just wait let's see oh yeah yeah fire so i mean it's a it's it's just it's ongoing process fun you know but but in going through that and then making you wait year rookie season you were guy there was a starter from the jump how difficult and challenging is it to go from playing in the college game to now starting right away in the national football league it's incredibly hard you know they're they're they've done a better job i think for the most part in college and college and nfl are kind of the lines were being blurred now as far as often subsystem so i remember when i came out we ran kind of i guess you would call a west post office but i did and all i really knew what the defense is wearing a different color shirt like i didn't really know anything else i i knew where my progression was and i knew what coverages were but i don't know really what rouch be certain leverage is and why guys play certain techniques nissan on the defensive side of the ball was i what's hot like okay they brought to you guys went back can't block both of well it was all built in you know just by time and or will go seven men protection and pick all that up but when you show up in the nfl is i went from that to a kind of a running shoot style offense with chris palmer kind of like kevin kevin gilbride when they ran in new york so something very similar that where i was in charge of all the protections and men you could tell seventy six sacks later we didn't know we were doing like i'm trying to set up there's last kinda decipher where kansas city is coming from and they got four guys over here and five guys over here and then six come from this side and i'm like i had no idea what was going on so that was a that was the biggest thing is just understanding what i was looking at where to go with the ball and try to make it all kind of happened so now i think they've done a better job you know where there are more types of systems like we just kind of walk in and it's kind of it's made it's based ready made it's ready for the quarterback going there rip through his progressions uptempo you know there's some things i kind of wish i played played ten years ago or not ten years ago but ten years later so i could kind of be involved in that zone reed stuff i mean that's that's fun rpo's like i always liked to do that stuff but i was kind of a little bit before that i know just you got a chance in your new role here with us in nfl media got a chance to watch some of these college kids and keeping up with the college game in talking a lot of these guys they're coming through the draft process most college offenses right now the way it's structured is it's based off whether they see a too high safety looker single high safety look independent on which one they get it closes half the field there only working on half the field we we don't see guys really progressed through the entire field how long does it take in you're in your experience to be able to open up an entire field and be able to left right and get the number three maybe even further in the progression i don't i think i felt comfortable doing that until like year three year four 'em now that i think about it and we we even did some of that stuff early on where we tried to go full field reid i really couldn't handle it when i was in first in houston i mean it was so much to look at first of all just try and figure out what coverage they were in you know so like you say middle open middle closed two safeties one safety but middle open can be a world of different coverages right middle closed maybe it narrows it down a little bit more 'em but yeah so we would sit on the sideline i remember saying was a cover to for the two man's zone like this guy kinda and we only had two pictures with the pre snap pictures in the middle of i dunno i dunno when he's screaming and i'm like i don't believe you so it was just a difficult pull right that part is hard so if you can go to where you know and you start off with either just true progression where you're just going straight across the board right to left her left the rider harry reid it that's good young guys but it it it requires more of the play caller to design sign you know a shift and motions and put guys in demand spots right yeah he's got a kind of create for the quarterback or you could just lined up and say okay middle middle close and that'll get you so far i mean you could you could run and often that way when you start getting into the the disguises in guys move in late remember we played minnesota in minnesota would just sit in a too high shell until the snap and they would just subtly move and then even like baltimore with ed reed ed reed would sit and cover for that what you mean you know i mean these guys were fantastic you got it and he would kind of give you the illusion hit drop back like he's in to what he's not really into he just wants you to think that is exactly what he wants to think that you're into see throw a slant hits him in the chest you know like how did that happen you know there's there's some subtleties it's if you ask quarterback to look at the defense and really decipher what's going on you better make sure he's got a good feel for it otherwise it's gonna be some indecision you point to some you point out something that i i believe it's been the biggest thing in terms of helping these young quarterbacks get jumpstarted quarterback coach's office coordinators are now more than ever willing to adapt in kind of tweak their system to make the quarterback comfortable if you had an opportunity to play in today's game how big of an advantage is to have that kind of coaching where they're not asking learn just complex system they're basically taking your calls his playbook encounter modernizing it yeah you get ready for the nfl well it was great i mean i remember even when i went in houston there there were still conversations with chris and with dom here what do you like what you feel comfortable with and we watch my film would pull a couple of plays that we ran and they tried implemented but didn't really fit in what they did you know so it was kind of like it didn't match right so we do a little bit of that we're really good quick game stuff like i get the ball in my hands pretty good 'cause i did a lot of that in fresno but anytime we start going drop back and now we're making wide receivers make decisions fifteen yards down the field and whether they're gonna break into the post turned back out and pitch to them like that stuff started getting really complicated but yeah the more you can like i love when when coaches go out and like so for instance and arizona they're reaching out to the oklahoma staff right in cleveland all right what is baker do well you go back and you talk to their coaches and you get it it it just makes you feel comfortable they even named a couple of plays the same then i ran it in fresno so when i was in the huddle i'd i'd call the same i feel comfortable run i run it a thousand times so that helped that stuff helping the more you could do that the better i mean it now because the fences in college in nfl her are so similar you could do a lot more of that so it makes these young guys able to be able to go out there on the field earlier and have success i'll ask you about this one day you know we're going to be evaluation process i have my three kind of you have you're non negotiable in in these the three that i look for and then i've kind of aturday fourth and fifth as a qualifier here to see if you could fill a gap for me here in terms of what it would take to be successful at the next level i start with the big three firm you're accuracy a decision making and poise like i you gotta have those three things accuracy decision making and poise that's the foundation and and then i talk about having enough arm like i don't need you have you gotta have enough you can't have a picture up there you gotta be able to be able to fit balls and window so enough farm and then i also said enough athleticism i don't need you to be a world class athlete just like tom tom has enough athletic ability be able to sidestep slide and make a freak i miss it every now and then i don't need somebody or everytime you get a free russia you're dead yeah so those are the five areas that i look at eight what do you think about those five and then be working again some gaps ice things really good i was a i was thinking about that when i was coming in here i know you guys this podcast we were talking about some quarterbacks stuff and interestingly enough you're first three are very similar to what i've always kind of believe me when i got to new york we're able to win a super bowl with eli a mike sullivan was a day office coordinator the night before we play the patriots he handed us are packet and it was something he always talked about but on the front page of it was obviously the super bowl logo and all this stuff but it said leadership decision making inaccuracy and so i guess leadership employs could be kinda similar and that's it that kinda can go either way but for me the leadership thing could be how you prepare how you take ownership of you're all fence all sorts of intangible things right in that kind of encompasses the boys do like you can't just be out there and you're the leader and you're losing your mind in clutch situations or making bad decisions like icy experience quarterbacks all the time and tom coffin with huge on decision making or sorry on on just knowing situations and they make i mean hitting your vets just not knowing the clock not knowing when the burn burn a timeout not letting the i mean it's just crazy stuff that i see all the time that still happens in today's game so this first year actually really good the decision making inaccuracy i think that's that's not negotiable that's a hundred percent you have to make the right decisions you have to throw the football you gotta no window throw the football and then you gotta be accurate like you don't as hard as you want if it hits she leaders on the sidelines say who cares right i mean you gotta be able to put it where you wanna put it and then those other two as far as having enough farmer enough athleticism tom brady's is good as i've ever seen it moving in the pocket subtly like finding a way to remain a passer and keep his eyes down the field you could have a free i've seen free runners that guy a lot and he just make some miss and makes it through so i mean that's enough athleticism for me and then having enough arm that's always the nice thing because you and i talked indifferent quarterbacks in the winter i talked to derrick it's nice to have that canon in your back pocket but don't feel like you have to be utilizing right if that's every year strengthen you feel like i'm just gonna lean on that unless you're throwing a hundred yards and you're josh allen and you're pat mahomes and you kind of rely on that the majority of the time okay i get that but if it's not that you gotta you gotta be smart got nowhere throwing the football it's nice to have that extra juice when you need it maybe you're a little late or you see something a little late and you gotta put a little extra fire on it throw down lower you know put it on her yards down the field from somebody so that that's pretty good man job good job when her dj yeah so you gotta check you've been like look you were super athletic probably more athletic than people give credit for you talked about prepping in getting ready to run fast when you're getting ready for the pre draft however we're looking at all these dual threat quarterback that are making their way into the league and so if you were a team building you add the take on one of these dual threat quarterbacks how do you work with them what would you tell them what is a dual threat quarterback need to be able to do to be a franchise quarterback in this league well i think that you know that that kind of talks into thia all the stuff that we just talked about i think you can't get away from that stuff that stuff's what wins championships ships 'em but if you have the extra little bit athletic ability you have the extra arm talent kind of like patrick mahomes that's where you win mvp in throw fifty touchdowns but he has all the other stuff like an end he's done a good job of kind of you have so much talent there and he's he's not really tried to suffocate him he's not said okay you gotta do this this and this you gotta really raining all this stuff is kind of letting be free so if you have a guy like that you could kind of letting go a little bit 'em buddy make some plays letting be creative i remember having a conversation with gary kubiak about the same thing and and we were like three or four games into my first year with him and he sat me down and he's like i think i'm holding you back a little bit i think were were trying to become too robotic like we need to be a little more free you make some plays and i'd always really before that kind of ran around made a couple of plays nuts when you looked looked at it as a lot of are often it's we were able to be successful doing things like that so you don't wanna ever take that away from a guy that's talented and athletic like the cuyler murray lamar jackson like let them be who they are let them still be explosive dynamic players but give him a structured oftens with some rules in some timing aspects where they know what the capabilities are inside the dolphins but they could always kinda go to that next next level and they have to we talking scouting about you know you got you wanna have geyser passionate energetic guys love what they're doing that quarterback position i mean you're a great person to ask this question is is just the overall commitment i think people any outside think they have an idea of what goes into getting yourself ready to play on a sunday and i believe have no idea all the work entailed and so we talked to these kids when they're coming to the draft process and were trying to find out do you love it are you passionate about it because i mean tell me have you ever been about anybody that's been successful deposition that doesn't have eleven a passionate put in the type of work you now i really have and i say i've seen the opposite i've seen guys don't make it two years without without that you have to be able to you have to be able to want to grind in it has to be fun there has to be the thing that you think about it three o'clock in the morning like okay i'm gonna housing and defeat discovers like the defense gave me a fit yesterday no thc is there how how am i gonna defeat that so you go into the lab you go back into the you know in the end of the film room and you kinda just start breaking it down because you love doing it i mean that's that's it and talk to tom coffin when i first walked in new york first thing he said to me we sat down in his office good to see you i've known it for a long time and he goes how much is it mean to you do you love it right in the house you're seven at that point like yeah it wouldn't be too hard i have a family at home is way too difficult but you know i look at my brother and he's not were on vacation and he's waking up at five o'clock in the morning to get a little film study in workout because that's what he loves to do this kid's wake up and then it's all it's all family time but yet you watch tom brady in full pads on the beach somewhere where he doesn't have to be in full pads on the beach somewhere the helmet on running sprints but he's doing that because it means a lot it's important to him and that's the only way you're gonna be successful especially in this in this league especially at that position is just you got defensive coordinators that that's all they do is sit up and try and figure out how they're gonna stop you they do that literally all they have no live they sleep any office they just wanna see how they conduct tom brady how they gonna make sure antonio brown is run over the top of when they play the raiders like that's all they think about so you have to kind of match that intensity match that focus david one one trade that stands out to me that we haven't talked about but i believe it's essentially being a guy that not only the franchise quarterback but wins at the highest level confidence of the best quarterbacks that we've ever been around have kind of an unwavering belief in yourself and they believe the get it done when you're young quarterback and you've been thrown out there to the wolves and you're struggling how how hard is it to maintain their confidence so it doesn't kind of cave in on you and you kind of see it on the other side it's extremely difficult because this is the most humility i mean humbling league that there is in all of sports i mean you think you gotta figure it out all these guys they everybody thinks they can play quarterback in nfl especially eli's i talked to a fourteen year old kid at this usa today sling it throws a hundred yards you think he's ready he thinks he's ready start talking about cover a couple of years ago you'll love it it's a it's a blast but yeah it's it's a very humbling league and it is it demands i remember sitting there my first year in houston and i had given absolutely everything that i had physically mentally i was exhausted were like week seven array and i'm like i got i have i don't know what else psyching do right and we still want winning football games it's extremely difficult i've played every sport there is i went snowboarding when my wife first time went right down the hill she's like oh you're just a great athlete i'm like as is easy compared to what my normal job is this is the hardest thing though you're ever gonna try to do even guys that are doing everything they can i still got the pieces around you gotta have it all work together you gotta have the right head coach i mean it's just extremely difficult but man it's it's it's a blast minutes how we love it well you've given us so much time we do appreciate i just wanna compliment john one thing here because as i go through and look through all the notes and in all you're numbers at seventy six sacks okay whatever seventy six sex and we still standing and what i'm seeing twelve of their own fumbles broke right twelve i felt recor i don't wanna bring that up but i mean start asking the country's that's that's what i do i how do you even know where the ball is you get it off you start doing that you ever seen catchers when they dig one out of the dirt and they initially looking around panic i always had look at our our was yet albert hanes worth one time i took the snap and i went to pull away from centered he grabbed my left wrist like literally beat the ball drops out like underneath me literally sit down on top of it i'm like perfect 'perfect second down that is fantastic yeah when that july imagine it practice what they wanna do the cover up drills when they get in a fetal position goes on like dude i've i've got enough ryan recor and older here bro let me just sitting in that'd be great you a guy but great to hear from a from david obviously you're the first overall pick you've gone through the process easy great person to talk to and a really somebody put it in an impossible situation there with an expansion franchise with the houston texans but my big take away block is the challenge we face it scouts face is is how do you scouting tangible man that is a that's a tough one you know it it it's it's really tough because you you don't have an opportunity to really get to know the quarterback the way that you would want to knowing how big his role is when it comes to the fate of the franchise but you're like the same as much as you can we've always talked about this the number one rule is scatter when it the quarterback you have to see him live and a lot of people think that you need to go see him live to see their arm on display to get a real life view of how how they spin it but i like to go to games lie because i wanna stand on the sideline and i wanna see how they interact wreck with their teammates whether they like when they have a bad plays go against them how they win one of their teammates may drop a pass office of lyman blows a block do they encourage them how do they respond to that i also wanna see what other interactions like with the coaches with the coordinator how often are they having a dialogue especially at the office coordinator is on the field i am trying to get a better sense of the player by being around him get a sense of how he manages in controls the team and his teammates more so anything that he doesn't feel i wanna see that but really i am trying to determining assess be intangible quality that he's going to bring to the team will be selected let me give you two examples here and i've mentioned the j p lost one before i remember going watch him play against navy in a this is somebody the end up going in the first round of the buffalo bills but 'em in character wise everything was fine there it was just i want to go to alive game missio interact with his teammates in a there is no virtually no interaction there will be more was running back on that team a good player a draft pick their offer the pittsburgh steelers but go into that live game in it maybe i caught him on a bad day i don't know but all i know is that turned me off and i was out i bailed on him i i have a huge great on begin again with but he had a really low grade for me i go into the process and i'll give you more recent example 'em have mentioned this one before but i was going to watch paxton lynch and his bowl game i believe will play in auburn a which they're outmatched there in memphis but i wanna see see okay as as you're taking a beating their you're not you're not playing great the team's not doing well are you rally in your teammates i went down a it was a it was in a it's like a chain link fence down there on the sideline so i walked down i'm not wearing any you know nfl network you're nobody knows who so i just mere along the sideline for the entire game and again i wanna see okay let's rally the troops kind of be that not in the rope can you be somebody when things are sliding can you stop the slide can you try and get everybody going and there was just there was nothing i wanna see some interaction with different guys and you try to give everybody together and let's trend rally the troops see any of it now in hindsight i should have dropped him even further than i did i think i ended up having him somewhere in the twenties or something like that but there were a lot people talking about him potentially being a top five top ten pick a in that impacted migrate going to see him live impacted migrate and that's what to speak to your point it's important what these quarterbacks get out there and see even see them at alive game you have to see alive game you have to get a feel for who they are and how they handle situations and sometimes you can't get that when you're watching tape or you looking at them on tv a you wanna be around you only get a feel for who they are and also sometimes we talk to coaches coaches don't give you all of the information that you need right away but i think having that that first hand look being right there being able to see them being in foot binoculars on being able to stand beside them in the game gives you a real sense of who they are because i don't think you can't fake it when you around somebody and they don't necessarily know that you're looking at them and really observing they're there every action yeah no doubt well that was a fun conversation there with david car in that leads us to are are final conversation her final guest of the episode bucky somebody you know extremely well i gotta go down in history one of the greater coaches we've had in the national football league ears are conversation with mike holmgren this this is named after morning you playing green bay any other any other boyer me or you know coach there is a lot of fascination fascination with the quarterback and you talked about a veteran quarterback jumping in but let's talk about young quarterbacks in water the i guess two or three trays that you look for in young quarterbacks they were making mike holmgren interested in developing their quarterback to eventually maybe you're darn well you know what it's in again i i i'm old so it's a it's change just a little bit in the scouting part about you were you know you excellent scout a that authorizes in college now are a little different than they were a few years ago an so you get young quarterback tyler murray who is special or russell wilson or guys that aren't is the prototypical size for a quarterback but they do amazing things on the field and if you wanna run that type of all fence that they used his his mobility gets them out of the pocket those types of things week and see then you go ahead and take that guy 'cause they're special but not everybody can do that these guys are special special player so i always looked at one the first thing you gotta throw the ball he's gotta be able to complete passes be accurate and make all the throws that's the first thing second thing was his movement doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be his running ability but his movement in the pocket and their ability to avoid wade and then also did get a first down if necessary answered and this may be more important but it's tough to judge it just his mental toughness and how he's gonna deal with adversity how he's gonna be a leader with his team all those types of things things are a little more subjective and that's what those minicamp you're talking about before you get a better feel the longer you're around him you get a better feel but you have to make that decision early in hope you're right you're right all the time but those are those those are three things that we've always looking at heart coach one of the things we always talk about in in the scouting were always talk about different types of leaders in the local leaders you have the leads by example is is it possible to be an elite player in in the national football league at the quarterback position without being vocal leader is that even possible i think it is i think it is but that again that that's a special special gift a you know one of my mentor is in one of the guys i looked up to just passed away recently bart starr andy and i would say you know he he was not one of those boisterous voelkel leaders that you might think of you know he was but he was leader and they all played hard for him and they knew he was the boss an indiana but that was a gift a it's not it's more subtle but then that if you're not a vocal leader in and they don't see the fire you gotta show at sometimes times and they showed in different ways and but you know this in the locker room you know the players know the players know if if a player is not necessarily a vocal an obvious to the fans the players know in the locker room he leads in a different way perhaps you know i'd steve young joe montana far of those guys matt hasselbeck marked with those guys they were all different somewhere little louder somewhere a little funnier like fire but they play his teammates they end joe montana was special but he was kind of a little bit more on the quiet side the his teammates they their teammates would do anything they they go to the wall for because they had that gift so i don't think you have to be necessarily boisterous you know to be a leader in fact i know you don't have to me because i coach guys at work but they were definitely leaders of the football team i've got one more quarterback question for you here coach if if you look at the landscape bright now in the nfl in somebody's as somebody that played the position in somebody who enjoys coaching the position is there one guy out there you look at and say man i i would love to have the opportunity to coach that young man well i'm gonna stay pretty obvious here and you know what i'm gonna say is mahomes play in a you know he reminds me a little bit of farm and then the fact that he he'll start doing stuff and you know the old saying no no you're the silent oh yeah and it works out okay so he's fun to watch he sounds i i don't know and but you know he's fortunate to be with andy i think that's one thing and then he's he seems like a great young man you guys calling on better night a coach now i've been i've been on the sideline when you've had some of those epic a interactions with brett for are you sure that you could deal with somebody be a off the cuff sandlot stuff that pat mahomes brings i know that you said oh i would love to coach but i remember back in the day brett would drive you crazy sometimes there's somebody impromptu plays and he will make on the field now bucky when i agree to this promise me you wouldn't bring up any of those crazy moments i don't want people i don't want my human you know one thing i will say this to that that a brett and i've said this openly so i'm not telling you anything i haven't said before but yeah he was challenging and we went through some tough love situations there's no question about that but he i had more fun coaching him then then anybody honestly he was a he so enjoyed playing the game and you can have moments you get after a little bit but then ultimately you knew that god this guy's this he's special and now i gotta do i gotta get the best out of him and that's what coaches look for you know you get a player that's just special special and then you go boy now i get to roll up my suasion and go to work and try and help this little bit you know coach so much has been made about quarterback development and i know being with you in green bay in seattle you really took pride in developing the quarterbacks in your season in the summer was a big part of that that has changed a little bit but what can a head coach due to really develop a young quarterback and even a starting quarterback over there all season to get ready to go at a max potential when you get into the regular season well you know a buck to you had you had to make sure that that young quarterback trusted you first of all in believed that by picking hammer choosing him that you thought he could do the job now having said that then it was his responsibility then worked very very hard you know we always try to a when i was coaching pick a quarterback a in those days you could we had three i always had three not too now today teams had just have to but i had three and i draft one in the fifth or sixth round perhaps and just let him learn and let him develop an you know historically those guys a lot of those guys went on to be pretty good players you know matt hasselbeck a a you know mark a meal his name is margaret albert ellen l now in you know in green bay knowing what's gonna replace far but i still wanna bring in a guy in training and then maybe it'd be a backup but then he went on to other teams so it was fun for me i was a quarterback coach you know i wasn't assistant as with the forty niners i start as a quarterback coach i played the position it was fun for me to develop those guys and famine grow and so that's a week that you do in the off season and that's what you did in the summer man it's always a pleasure when they get a chance to you coach mike talk about quarterbacks 'em having play for him for three years and green bay worked for him up in seattle a he really understands the quarterback position he takes a lot of pride in a not only evaluating quarterbacks but really trying to develop them in some of the quarterback that he has been around the steve young joe montana's the guy these in fact the brett farr matt hasselbeck trent dilfer was also a part of a run in seattle he just does a great job of getting guys ready to play in teaching them how to play the right way and so for him to be able to share some of that stuff was really enlightening but i think the conversation in the way he lit up with pat mahomes i believe coach mike if you had an opportunity coast number because he is eerily similar the number four up in green bay an some irony a on the show today because you've got kurt warner who spent some time there with mike holmgren a brief moment there with the green bay packers before he was cut a mike holmgren might wanna have that one back fine brett farve were fine going forward but kurt went under heavy hall of fame career but just goes again the show you some guys heavy unac at the position for being able to identify and develop talent you look at the long run of quarterbacks he's had from san francisco the green beta seattle success they had a throwing the football obviously nobody better talked to the coach homegrown about the position it is so crazy i think you were driving crazy because for the longest time in green bay we would not used a shotgun formation because he felt like the shotgun disrupted the rhythm of the passing game of the west coast offense and so the change in kind of come speed a little bit with some of the things that guy's doing in the league now but he certainly knows the quarterback position better than most no doubt well that was a that was a fun episode that maybe the most enjoyable movie six episode that we've done i i i am a i'm a sucker for the quarterback back position it's a it's right there in my wheelhouse always trying to learn and grow in any evaluation of the position in in buckeye i feel like we learned a lot in this one we did learn a lot in dc i'm i'm gonna tell you i'm i'm biased because heaven had the opportunity to play for two hall of fame quarterback back then jim kelly and brett farr played with another one mvp candidate mvp winter rich gannon a they all the different and i think what i learned from the podcast look they could come in all different styles and flavors but the core traits they have to have those and i think what we were able to glean from this podcast you know what those traits are you have to have the intelligence you have to have the leadership the accuracy the anticipation you have to be a guy and i think if anything i'm gonna take that away and i hopefully it'll make me a bit evaluated when we're looking at these other guys that is the next generation of quarterbacks are we need to we need to go on record here without prototype because it is the prototype series again learning a lot but also taking all that information of what it takes to be successful when you look at the current crop of quarterbacks block and yet the say one guy hits the prototype man that is like this tough dj because like once again we we still have not talked about how they come in different things i look i think the new school prototype type will be the pat mahomes site in terms of the guy who has the athleticism but has the big time arm talent the guy that could raise the bad place and get it done i think he'll be the new school prototype of the position just because he he is so remarkable in terms of what he's able to do but the ball how he's able to kind of just make these impromptu improvisational place however he is still able to stay on schedule now we're talking about someone that continues to be the standard i think the prototype is really tom brady the ultimate winner the guy they condemn it from the pocket it may not be the most talented guy but he got it consistently finds a way to get his team to the winner's circle at the end of the day it's not about the yards is about the rings tom brady remains the standard i think he's the prototype of the position yeah i mean look there's you've got aaron rodgers a you know we've we've seen a a ben rothlisberger heavy long stretch drew brees obviously doesn't have the prototypical size but to me if were looking at the prototype i i think it's between two guys and you mentioned pat mahomes who does everything you could ever imagine a on the football field timmy though i would still for me personally if i'm trying to go scout and look what i'm looking for what i'm trying to find i'm still trying to find andrew luck it's the highest quarterback rating and i've ever given since i starting in two thousand three and i'm gonna stick with that in in what he is because i have the size the physicality the arm strength athletic ability intelligence i don't know a skill that andrew luck doesn't possess and i would say maybe the you know the difference what's the difference between him and pat mahomes i think at this point just because andrew luck slow further along i think on schedule andrew luck is eight is a little more advanced advanced now pat off schedule is unique in what he can do special i think it's a conversation between those two but for me i still have andrew luck is the prototype it's funny because it's one of the young named it i would throw in there as the prototype and i know he's been injured a little bit but i still believe carson wentz is really more like a prototype anything else because when you look at carson wentz a athletically he could do whatever you wanna do in terms of quarterback run game he could throw inside the pocket outside the pocket he's a terrific leader he's tough in he's a guy that absolutely loves the grunt in the process we obviously know that because you know people that have tied very close to him i think he is a prototype and i think if he has an opportunity to play a full season twenty nine team i think that conversation becomes probably a three headed monster with pat mahomes carson wentz an andrew luck because each of those guys plays the game a little differently but they all have the court trays that you're looking for yeah it's a it's exciting we have a lot of good young quarterbacks in the nfl and but tasked with trying to find the next wave of guys in the college game that's something we're gonna focus here on the move the sticks podcast as we do throughout the year remember you could check out are running back episode if you've missed that one if you enjoyed the quarterback when trust me you're gonna wanna stay tuned for the entire series but the running back show is already up you'll find that nfl dot com slash podcasts or your favorite podcast app and we have wide receivers they're coming next week bucking trust me you're not gonna wanna miss this one it's a it's a fascinating conversation especially i think you're gonna enjoy our chat with thomas dmitrov on the subject absolutely manda playmakers we we talk about the marquee positions in football we could talk about quarterbacks and we'll talk about pass rushes but man the pass catcher slash playmakers they've certainly kind of risen up the marquee absolutely anchorage everybody that's listening download subscribe review we appreciate all those tell a friend this is a this is a fun series not a lot going on in the football world right now but this series is got me energized and then pumped up it's

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