JONBENT: The Case Against The Ramseys
Israeli I wanNA tell you that this air here are your video recorded of volunteered statement. You're free to go over to stop this interview any time to wherever you hearing growing by now. That was a clip from patsy. Ramsey's please interview in the late. Ninety s this is John Ramsey. Today we were told us later by the district attorney was to release a lot of information to the media that was was suspicious. Made US look guilty. Tension guilty and the media would bring intense pressure on passing. I one of us at crack back during the confess as to be solved that was their whole strategy that was the only strategy yet and so the media of course ran with it. Big Time and convinced convinced seventy percent of the world that we were guilty of Maria child then the police recalling. Oh we can't bring a case because we don't have any evidence so so they kind of got back into core like Dang you know we. We thought one of them was going to confess that we solve the crime. We could've gone on TV and Indianapolis Welcome to part two of the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final suspects. I'm your host Danielle Robea We do have a group here now on the ground knocking on doors and talking to people who know what happened. who were there? Were involved to have records. This is Jon Benet Ramsey expert Jamison in. Hopefully we can do something to get this investigation. Gatien advanced no matter how it takes if we have to do. If we can get the COPS to help us. That would be wonderful if we could convince somebody to step in. Take the case away from the police department. Give it to a cold-case group or the District Attorney's office again. That would be wonderful but we're determined to every effort we can get in this advanced before they can begin to work on formerly detective. Smith suspect list. We need to address the elephant in the room. From the moment John Ramsay discovered the body of his daughter in the cellar of their family. Home he and wife Patsy had become prime mm-hmm suspects in her murder. As far as the boulder police were concerned one or both of them did it period and thanks to increasingly rabid media interest crest and a million online conspiracy theorists that view became shared around the world. was there ever any evidence to back up this theory in this episode. We're going to discuss the case against the RAMSEYS. This is detective. Robert Whitson talking about the Boulder Police Department. There's something called confirmation bias and when you have that you don't want to hear anything that's contrary to year theory once you've made up to your mind you don't want to hear anything that would be contrary to that so I think that's what was occurring now of course they'll deny that according to figures from the US Department of Justice seventy four percent of all murder victims in America. No they're killer and over over one in five victims are killed by a member of their own family for the boulder. PD The initial. Focus of their investigation was naturally jonbenet's parents John and patsy eighty former sheriff's investigator. John San Augustine explains from the onset of this investigation. The Boulder Police Department has focus the Ramsey family. So you know what we're dealing with right now. Even twenty years later is a situation where because of their lack of objectiveness really in this case lack of really pursuing the the the truth and only focusing on the family they have not allow themselves to look at other potential suspects local news reporter Paulo Woodward also remembers cops refusing to keep an open mind on the case stars I know will the only suspects they really pursued or John and Patsy Ramsey. They have said that they pursued others. Looks at others from the information that I have an examining that investigation. They were locked onto the family by the first day and they didn't change their focus. Still they are suspects of the Boulder Police Department at Saint. John's DNA did not match patsy in John's handwriting did not match to the ransom note yet. They still were suspects of the Boulder Police Department. Those are two pretty definitive pieces of evidence that exclude the family. They were not excluded older. PD may have wanted to believe. The ramseys were guilty but they had no actual proof John or patsy were involved loved and his days to weeks and with the public demanding justice many close to the case say. The police began to manipulate the huge media interest to try to further their own cause errors of the case that initially happened at the crime scene or compounded rounded boulder police leaky misinformation on purpose and being picked up by rookie media reporters and run the first wake the leaks. Were Bing's just outright untruths like patsy. Ramsey wouldn't take a DNA test while she had that came from Boulder. Hold it please from police spokesperson. It was again very wrong a travesty. I just don't know why it will decrease that Robert Woodson was the on call detective supervisor in Boulder in nineteen ninety six and one of the first officers on the scene. He was a part the case from the start. There started to be news leaks within the media so obviously somebody it one or more people were giving the news media information up. Some of it was accurate. Some of it was inaccurate. And we didn't know who was doing doing that. So based on that police department decided to really limit access as far as you know who could have any access to the information information which I clearly understand why that was done unfortunately that then enders an investigation. Because sometimes the APP somebody one detected may have a piece of information that fits with a piece of information that another person has and if you don't on have that communication if it gets basically locked down then it may fall through the cracks in the system. So what happened at that. Point is just a few people became the what I would call the ongoing investigative team and they were the people that had had access to the information for the first four years. After this murder occurred. I was told by detectives that were working at who you did not give any specifics. They just told me the ramseys definitely were involved. That was definitely their focus with the ramseys were involved. And that's what I believe leap for the first four years I think they had group think going on and it was almost like tunnel vision. They were focused on on Patsy Ramsey that became the focus of this investigation. 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Boulder Police Department has this investigation while in hand the investigation is in shambles her child beauty pageant pictures and we had no idea that this is going on had been leaked and sold to the media the photographers who took them and it was just audit control. Chaos like with the OJ Simpson case where people were making money people in the media or purported to be in the media were making money having an opinion on the OJ Simpson case. That's what happened on the Ramsey case and there were people who said the RAMSEYS did it. They were public broadcasting broadcasting this or writing it and there were people who were saying an intruder did it but by far the ramseys did it. Case was the one that was the most advanced. That's where people were the most shrill and that's where ratings up because the viewers and listeners were interested that's where people made their money and so they stuck with the ramseys did it. It was really awful. The way the media just I did not do their jobs and made a decision that they were for one or for the other and it was wrong. Very wrong former sheriff's investigator Peter Johnson Augustine when law enforcement you who's not involving homicide investigations on a regular basis is conducting a murder investigation. Uh You can understand. There's there's probably GonNa be some mistakes because they don't do it. They don't do with any level of regularity. They don't understand the dynamics of a homicide case nobody. Nobody can say that. Somebody who's investigated narcotics her. Somebody's investigated burglaries armed. Robberies is the guy or the Gal you you want to go to to investigate a case like this involving the murder of a six year old little girl just can't it can't put that in the hands of an inexperienced individual. You need to have somebody with some familiarity with homicide in how. It's Alan investigation like that. You know how how involved it is and why it's so important. According to do a proper investigation gathering facts what you're about to hear are extracts from a long buried police interview with Patsy Z.. Ramsey an interview. She undertook voluntarily. If you the consider Jon Balka somewhere Germany's not thought there crushed. Never ask me as the is. I'm not saying that he thought about this brander expired or something for months to carry this out. I'm said did you ever for a second thing nine. Maybe there was an accident are there could could. John have accidentally pushed struck John Eventually. In September nineteen ninety ninety eight a grand jury was convened to consider indicting the Ramseys for charges relating to the case we have tracked down a member of that jury. Jonathan Webb I lived in Boulder Colorado in the late nineties. I was a graduate student at the University of Colorado auto and then I was in his up. Potential Juror. The process of of a grand jury is where the prosecutor presents the information. There is no defense lawyers or personnel. There it's simply the prosecutor presenting the evidence us as they have found it. We were allowed to take notes. Ask questions of the witnesses and we saw a lot of information from and everything from individuals that were related to the case to handwriting. Experts to medical experts birt's doing autopsy etcetera. The one thing that really I've never forgotten is the testimony from Pediatric Edgar Forensic pathologist from the University of Miami and the shots of the we saw video and a lot of testimony Simoni and the manner in which someone dies With the type of injuries that Jon Benet had and time on course what is something that will never leave me in one thousand nine hundred nine. After a year of hearing testimony and being presented with evidence from the boulder police the grand jury returned with. What's called a true bill to charge the Ramseys with placing Jon Benet at risk in a way that led to her death breath in layman's terms? Kind of glorified child negligence not murder not manslaughter. Following that Boulder County A.. Alex Alex Hunter announced. He would not be prosecuting. The ramseys on any charges declaring that he did not believe that in a trial he could prove guilty beyond reasonable doubt based upon the evidence that we saw we were told the decision is a preponderance of the evidence or a grand jury which which means over fifty percent fifty point one percent or more that. You think someone might have done it then you vote to indict. That is not beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence that I saw I if I sat on a regular jury. I would've never convicted anyway anyway because it wasn't to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. So I think the. Da made the correct decision. And I was fine with it. I'm fine with the fact that it's still unsolved murder. I don't want that to be misinterpreted but I simply don't believe the evidence was there to convict anyone. It would have been wasted Chase that based upon the evidence at the time Alex Hunter made an announcement on a beautiful mutiple they in boulder and it was chaotic and there were people all over the place live trucks all over the place that was in that era. She walked down the stairs of the district attorney building and walked into a park reporting had been set up an Alex Hunter after the district. Attorney said there will not be charges filed in the Jon Benet Ramsey case and a world exploded because that it's not fat factory. Have you somebody responsible. After the Boulder District Attorney announced he would not be filing charges bowler place then continued to try to find ways to find John and Patsy Ramsey guilty the boulder police department have I said all along. Hey we looked at other people other than the ramseys but their focus remained on the Ramsey unable to proved the ramseys were guilty by means of actual detective work. The police even resorted to underhanded tactics as this Fox News report from nineteen ninety nine shows. I'm John and Patsy Ramsey at home but not entirely at peace the death their daughter haunting them everywhere and they found out there appears to be no refuge or sanctuary. John and Patsy Ramsey had planned to talk to us at Jonbenet's grave site but when they found out that the boulder police had bugged this area near their daughters water's resting place during the investigation. They were too offended to come here. They should have some dignity just disappointing hurt The BOULDER PD may have have been sticking to their theory but for other investigators. The evidence that Jon Benet parents were responsible for her. Death simply didn't stack up. Chief among them was was lead detective loose man who was so convinced of their innocence. He continued investigating the case right up until his death in two thousand ten amongst those who worked with him was John San Agustin so when Leland I began looking at the evidence in this case some of the things that stood out regarding a possible and shooter I think the number one thing was that there was a window that was broken in the basement area. There was a scuff mark along the back part of the wall. There as you're coming you know just just below that window that was broken and partially open and it was also a suitcase that that was perpendicular to that wall. What was interesting about the suitcase? Was that the suitcase was partially opened and there was a piece of glass on on top of that. CK's indicating that possibly somebody said either entered there or possibly tried to leave their now. What's also important about the suitcase is that inside of that was a day and a Dr Seuss Book of which the fibers of which Jon Benet was wearing the morning? She's discovered by her dad. Those fibers or also found inside of the suitcase indicating a possibly. I believe Jon Benet was placed in Saturday. CK's other evidence that shows at possibly there was an intruder. Was that there were marks on Jon. benet dower noted at autopsy. More specifically that there were two stun-gun marks found on her face and on her back back which both injuries were very similar. What we found out Dr Dober- San was that those injuries or consistent with the stun gun? Ah Here's former boulder. Detective Robert Whitson after I retired. I met loose-knit Lou Lou was a detective who had worked over two hundred homicide with ninety percent clearance rate and he had been brought brought in by the District Attorney's office as a senior investigator. For the Ramsey case and Lou became the primary a person to promote what we call the intruder theory. Which is somebody broke into the house and committed this murder? It wasn't somebody within the Ramseys Family Lou and in and out of the window showed how easy it was to get in there. We know the window was easily accessible. Because Mr Angie at rock himself out I can August and broke that window. I went in to get into the House and never repaired. Apparently there was the suitcase that was placed right below the window. It appears to us that the person who was kidnapping her actually was gonna put her in a suitcase and tried to push up through the window to exit. But it couldn't do that because there was just not enough room to push her condenser him to get up inside. The whole thing does not make sense. So it's Christmas night to God fearing parents right are gonNA kill their daughter but what they're gonNA do is they're going to doctor from a room stun gun her twice right sexually assault or with a paintbrush strangle her. You know the manner of death is homicide. Aside cause of death was strangulation but more importantly after all that happens. There's also a blow to her head which covers to acceptable lobes equivalent of a seventy mile on our car crash. So I mean why would mom and dad and then oh by the way. They're gonNA write a ransom note and they're gonNA call the police even though the ransom no says don't call them then going to place her in a room of which just pure luck. None of the officers opened that door right and then a detective comes and tells John Ramsey which will never happen. Hey John go look for things out of the ordinary mobile. He goes down to a door that it was never open by law enforcement. That did two searches of that home and John Ramsey comes across his daughter. I mean the whole thing. You couldn't line up all the stars and moons the right way to get that scenario the play out the other thing is where did all this evidence go to never found the source of the duct tape never found the source of the white cord. The ramseys Ramsey's nobody can say that the ramseys owned a stun gun. You also have the high-tech footprint that was found and the storage room where Jonbenet's body was found. No source for that. Nobody in the Ramsey family had an issues like that bats supposedly none of the police officers or anybody that went there as she was like that. Or they're missing pages from the note pad those. Those were never found there. Was this beaver hair. That was found on Jon. Benet that Lou went through the whole house trying to find their a beaver Harris because they said well. That's Ramsey supposedly has a pair of boots beaver here on ever found any other lever hairs. So there're there were a lot of other fibers and hairs that have never been associated with anybody and then of course you had the DNA the male L. D. N. A.. That was found that we still don't know who's DNA that is in nineteen ninety eight John Ramsey easy frustrated by an investigation seemingly hell-bent on only pursuing he and Patsy wrote to district attorney Alex Hunter through his attorney Brian Morgan and once again reaffirming his willingness despite everything to do whatever it took to find his daughter's killer on December twenty sixth two thousand to in six years to the day after Jonbenet's murder. Mary lacy who had succeeded. Alex Hunter as Boulder County District Attorney. Took over the case within months she to subscribe to lose smits theory that an intruder was most likely responsible for Jon. Benet death and in July two thousand eight. She announced that the Ramseys were excluded a suspects and publicly exonerated them. Here's reporter Paula Woodward Mary Lacy Came Throng on a sex crimes background. That was her area of expertise. Those cases that she studied for years in trying to resolve the geometry Ramsey eighty murder. She looked at with her estimators things. That had not been tested for DNA in the Jon Benet Ramsey case in one of the things she found was a pair of long johns the long johns were sent to the same testing latte the first DNA a from her panties and her fingernails was identified in nineteen. Ninety seven. Anna was identified in the waistband up those long johns does that matched DNA that had been tested in nineteen ninety seven. It was a huge development. Mary lacy then went on to exonerate the Ramseys in a letter that received a lot of criticism. She said the reason Jason that she exonerated the Ramseys after her second. DNA testing match. The first was because the case was on a road road to try to convict the Ramseys and involved the death penalty and she didn't think they were guilty and she felt someone. Commissioner with authority even knows very unusual and highly criticized move should exonerate them. So should give tragically. Patsy Ramsey never lived to receive that exoneration in two thousand and two the ovarian cancer she had. I been diagnosed with in nineteen ninety three returned and she died in two thousand six at age forty nine. She is now buried next to her daughter here. She is speaking into investigators in nineteen ninety eight after the job. A Lot. More pressure for shooting shooting. Investigation the media whether Avenue interview. What what it's going to be aware if there is this gotta wear into the soul search for cope with it? I kind of thought myself. Get too tired contend fall in craw online depressed so I try to manage my health risks. Well Joe we have taken out the under the paper. Not just can't care because recent times that I had inadvertently themes of they learn new thing Ed Collins. I can't that was just like me in John. Ci Out because it's harmful you're watching the former detectives John San Agustin and Robert Whitson also believe that progress can still be made despite the mistakes of the past as we look at this case again. We look at the two theories whether or not there was an intruder who did this. The family and I will tell you that there are a number of investigators who have well over a couple hundred years of experience in and investigations. Who all say that? The murder of Jon Benet Ramsey was not done by the family but by intruders or an engineer. The problem is the Boulder Police Department. Still to this day will not come out and give any information on spend twenty three years I think at this point we need to come out and let people know what have you done. Have you looked at other people. Have you not looked at that other people. What are you doing still today? There are still a number of leads that have never been followed up by law enforcement is my understanding that approximately three thousand leads came into the Boulder Police Department and the onset of this investigation of which still still a number of them have never been followed. My understanding is there were are both fibers. Animal hairs that were never sourced so I had a source of ad here from the suspect. was that ever tested. I don't know they're not seeing anything anything. I was told that one of the neighbors two of the RAMSEYS and reported about a month before John. Benes murder order that there was somebody leaving cigarette butts in their backyard and I was told. Supposedly an officer responded and collected one of those cigarette butts. Now keep in mind this is prior to DNA. So it may have come into propping opinion evidence and because there was no DNA available you know discarded up like it was cap for a while the question is was that DNA from a cigarette butt ever test because we know in the asked that has been one of the methods of operation of sexist suspects where they will be in the area washing doing kind of surveillance of place that they wanNA break into and be out there smoking while they're you're watching the subject song and former grand jury member. Jonathan Webb agrees that DNA will be the key to finally securing justice for Jon. Benet the advances of analytical technology spend Jordan Attic and if money's was educated and the evidence was preserved my belief is and local technology could solve this crime. You'd have to have a dog detective. WHO's dedicated and focused funded well and given the best analytical tools and allowed to do his or her or work and if that is the case I think it would be solved next time on the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects ax discrediting the case against the RAMSEYS? The few people who are left in the Boulder Police Department still believed that John and or patsy Ramsey murdered their daughter. All of the jurors believed that the truth theory didn't hold water. It was almost like tunnel vision Asian. They were focused on Azi Ramsey and long buried recordings of police interviews with John Patsy and Burke Ramsey Z.. Here you know when when can rush the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is hosted by me. Danielle Rowe Bay executive produced just by Dylan Howard and Matt sprouts and is a production of broaden water studios and endeavor audio executive producers also include. Tom Freestone Doug Long Genie. Susan Bennett James Robertson and Andy Tillett. The series is written by Dominic reporting by Doug Montero the series is mixed and engineered by Sean on craft and Sam Ada. There is so much more to this story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything I can assure you subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects wherever you get podcasts. If you have any information that could help our investigators and the ramseys identify jonbenet's killer. Please help us at tips at justice for Jon. BENET DOT COM.