Hour 1: 6/23/20
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Lot Lot happening more bad news from around the SEC. covid Florida, reporting double digit positive tests today as we continue on, and we hope those numbers ultimately will change so far. They don't seem to be We'll talk a little bit about one program. That had a hard time getting off the ground, and that's Kansas State and a couple of minutes. We were talking to a reporter who delved a pretty deep. Into into the program that has already shut down. They'll come back hopefully in a couple of days after they regroup, but it has been a really weird couple of weeks, and we'll talk to a number of people about that. We look forward to hearing from you, and you can get in now. At Eight, five, five, two, four, two, seven, two, eight, five, in no also talked to the mayor of Tuscaloosa Alabama. He Walt Mattox and he said. I. would be cataclysmic. If Alabama football did not get off the ground this fall of course. I think you could probably repeat that in places all across the country. It is that important and we're going to talk about. What about Colin Hill? That's the story we. We touched on yesterday. Before we got off the ground, and before we got off the show, he is the. Running back in the country, the lead player for Mike. Leach and he's tweeted yesterday that he will not play this year if Mississippi does not take down the flag, which bears the confederate stars and bars on it, and this is a story that's been going on for a couple of days. already We've seen the commissioner of the SEC as well as. The head of the NCWA say they will not take either conference or Conference or National Championships to that state until the flag has come down the governor Tate Rees. has offered an alternative but apparently the player in question. Colin Hill not going along with that. We had the governor on a couple of weeks ago. One of the four hundred four governors all Republican by the way that we have had on this program in recent weeks on I take. earlier today Stephen a Smith, Stephen and Color just savaged the state of Mississippi In relation to their refusal to take away or take down the flag remember we talked to Akari showers about the other day as what we really want to hear from you because. Everyone's talking about what people in district. Should not be doing. Like to hear from people in this society. Talk about it I. think that's the most important thing you can do, so we will hear from you and again if you WANNA get in I. recommend getting a call now. Eight, five, five, two, four, two, seven, two, eight, five. That's eight, five, two, four, two, seven, two, eight five. I. It's it's. It's always interesting when people are country trying to. Shed shouldn't do. Not. Believe is the only state that's is in a position. and which troubling to me, is that living? My Life. Knowing the struggled. Just taking the stigma. AGEISM that has existed in the hard work that many people have done to try to overcome that. A lot of it seems to be going down the drain right now. especially with the way, the national media portrays it. It was interesting Stephen Ames. told the story. This wasn't a story in the sixties or Seventies. He told a story that occurred. six years ago. He said he was. He had a speech in Memphis was down. In thank you. I can't remember what circuit US either in Memphis and had to get to New Orleans and there was no other way to go, but Dr. and he said only concern driving through the state of Mississippi especially when he went into a convenience store. I was surprised by the story, but I'm not going to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't experience he. That's what he experienced also. Still nothing from NASCAR or the or the Justice Department on the investigation into Bubba Wallace. It's almost been two days now. Nearly forty eight hours since that race was rained out, and probably about forty hours maybe a little bit less than that. Since the announcement came down of the news in the garage and we don't know anything yet, it seems. Like we should be hearing something by now, but we are not anyway. Number s today as well love to hear from you, and this is a good time to get in. Would love gets especially MISSISSIPPIANS. Your reaction to what is being turned it around the country and we start with seth in Jackson Mississippi. Hyperbolic coming up. Hey great to have you on. Thank men I just I kind of want to let the country now you know as a Mississippi and going on. Don't touch thirty now. this has been an issue going all the way back to you know the early two thousand. You know it it. It's been in the legislature. Many times Thank you it was it was. Turned down shut down the last time they voted on it, but coming from a guy who you know has has some pretty strong southern heritage with having Greg grandfather who fought? For the confederacy and actually died at the battles lookout mountain. with the Mississippi Did you first regiment? anyway I. Think it's time for. you know work with with primarily at African Americans and you know they. Were all people. You Know God teaches us to love each other. Not feel like we need to. Honor that. but it's. Definitely time for a change. Well. Thank you for sharing that. like to hear I think that's an interesting way to begin the show. Casey's in Birmingham. I'm GONNA mention this, but you brought up at the flag, but I'm thinking you know. Maybe they need a change, but I'm thinking. I live here in Alabama. People of Mississippi should decide. People like Steven and everybody else how to stay out of their damn business. People in Mississippi could give a rat's say what they do in New York, flag, they flaws. And they ought to stay on Mississippi's business. Let Mississippi people decide on Mississippi flags, and I don't know. If I could just Eh. I don't want to argue but I need to just add one thing to that Sure this this isn't. This isn't a battle between Stephen, a Smith in the state of Mississippi The Commissioner of the southeastern conference started this on Thursday night I and. That's why this that's why. This is an issue and then one of the. someone who who was born in Mississippi in plays, football, Mississippi Cowan Hill, turned into a bigger store yesterday so I. Mean I, I just you know. Sports networks just don't go meeting to PICK ON MISSISSIPPI Can't they say notice on these athletes demands? I mean like wh you know used to be. Now. Her like becoming like big babies. They've got to get a yes every time. They have a problem. I just don't know where it's a slippery slope It seems like to me if you start giving in to every demand where you stop. Well I mean. It's not like Cowan Hill is asking for a private jet and an penthouse apartment. Always doing saying I think the state should take the flag down, or I'm not going to play I mean he's not It's really that simple. What are they gonNA leave it up to him. As on the new flag I mean his. He got to sign off on this thing. I don't think he wants to sign off on it. I just think the state of Mississippi could probably come up with. A flag that does not Herald. The confederacy thing is pretty simple. Every other state of the union figured out as about the NASCAR thing like you said about forty hours. You're right about forty hours. That's what I was thinking and no picture up and there's. Nobody has been arrested and that's Kars usually on top of anybody that gets in that garage this tech. You can't touch the car and you can't do this and you can't do that. Don't you find that a little bit strange? Yeah, Yeah! That's why I brought it up yes casey. Something mean I'm not trying to manage the investigation, but something's not right. But if it comes out that this is a made up story, the people that have a mainstream. Maybe that jumped on this and jump to are they gonNA backpedal and issue any apologies. No No. No. I don't think so. No I don't either and. Sir last question the last two days you've, and I've only been to two or three NASCAR races my life, I'll watch it, but I've only been to tour three at Talladega first. One was in seventy eight. And it was crazy in the end seals the last two times the sentence dance, but you've on Napalm on Nascar the last two days, but Can't you've been on the air longtime I've never heard you really call out Nascar all this kind of unfolded. Why is that have and maybe? I happen to dig up an article. I wrote in nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty eight. That's in a collection of my articles. In a book I'll. I won't bore you by reading it but I called NASCAR for being racist in that article talked about it in the ensuing days I really don't cover NASCAR anymore so I quit talking about it, but. I appreciate you. Bring that out and I think. It's a question. I would ask a lot of people who are outraged right now, but. There are very few times and I'm going to come back at you with with. Hey I did then but my record on NASCAR racism. Is. is pretty. Pretty solid but I appreciate your call. Hey, we're up against a break much more to come. You're listening to the Paul. Finebaum. Show podcast. We walk back in Really glad you are here. On a Tuesday afternoon. We have a lot to do and we're going to talk to a number of people. Covert or reports continued to rise around the country and you know. It really is somewhat. It's not difficult to explain it's easy to explain considering how many young players are not only. Around other people, but they're going out and one of the most interesting cases has been Kansas State, and we're going to talk about that in just a few minutes about how the head to completely shut down their entire. Let's grab some calls before we do that and Ralph is in New York. Hey Ralph. How you doing Paul Great Show? Executive Time Fan yeah. I WanNa talk a little bit about the whole episode with Mike Gundy, and then I wanna he get thoughts afterwards I. Don't think that the there's been fair coverage and about the whole incident. Let me explain right away. Everyone took it for face value. Would Chaba Hubbard from Oklahoma? State said he had heard on on scene online. If you will, and the truth of the matter is O., A. N. is, it's a right wing station as has mentioned, but the woman who is the Anchor Liz Wheeler is very upright. Upright religious good person and she was talking about what she was saying. She did not say that black lives do not matter that the black population of the country does an isn't worth anything. She was talking about the way that the movement black lives matter goes about doing things and disagreeing with some of their methods, and this has been take I believe were basically trying to say what's gone gone on as I think it was taken out of context, that's number one and therefore the fact that you know Mike Gundy war, Renault A. N. T. Shirt I, don't. Don't believe that there's anything really it's not like. He was wearing a shirt. Just because there's a big difference between someone saying that black lives of our country do not matter as opposed if someone is, against has a different point of view of an organization that does not make them a racist and I think trump. Hubbard reacted and there was actually an edited version of what lives Wheeler said that made it sound as if she was saying black lives don't matter. That's not what she was saying. She was talking specifically about the organization, and that being said I think this whole. Whole thing got blown out of proportion, and I think also. The young man went about it. The wrong way I think he should have I ascertained what was actually said, and from the middle, so I'd like to just say I've seen from other sports cast. It's not like anyone looked up, or it would just take a minute to go online and see what lives wheeler actually said and I I took the time to look, and she did not believe me. She did not say anything against you. Know are black population in this country. I just wanted to get your thoughts. Well I did go back. And look at it, and and you're right. Some of the some of the remarks were edited. However. However They I think what she was trying to say. We can no reason to quibble about this, but. I? I think she she didn't. She tried to say that she wasn't calling black lives matter. Organization Afar she was calling the movement Afar and it. It is interesting though. Ralph that that Mike Gundy spend a lot of time two days later, explaining how how wrong he was, about black lives may exceed me about and all that I in a sense. You're right the T shirt. itself was blown, too. Many I think a lot of talk, show hosts and people in social media. Tried to claim. That those who were after Gundy were doing it because of a t shirt that was really not the case I felt the wrath of a lot of people, but that's okay. I mean people can say whatever they want about me. That's great. Tr travel is up next and Mississippi. Hey trail. I. How you doing? Thanks for taking my call. Thank you very much. Yeah I I appreciate what you said on, I, take this on. I think he will one hundred percent correct with your statement. and. About an issue here and also I spend will carling hill on his State. And I remember back in the in the late nineties early two thousand friend that I knew they refuse to place for Mississippi State or Ole Miss. Because of the state flag and also. especially for Ole Miss Because of the the mascot, the head at the time, and also the school song. And they went outside the state and got scholarship and play there. And I think if they go back to that. They will have to do something about the stay flat. You know you don't supporting to me though I mean. Here's a university state that. The did hire Sylvester croom in two thousand and three. and it took a lot of guts to do that, but I think that conversation and I really got a little bit out of hand. I mean I i. don't know what you thought. I found Steven A. could read the New York phone book and make it entertaining, but his his drive from Memphis through New Orleans Mississippi was quite a rollicking ride. You would have to admit. There was a lot of truth what he said. You know that better than I do. Right yeah, this is of truth is understand Stephen I of viewpoint, he's an entertainer I I in my opinion and he. He gone to You know. Express yourself in a way that he know how now I don't agree with everything. They said but something. I can't agree just by growing up in the state, but. bottom line is this. We should have a stay flat. They represent every Mississippi absolutely the some. Invest in my my argument was I. Don't want to see Colin. Hill not play football. Of course not but I would I. I'll ask suggested. Was You know let's not let's not. Let's not spend our time talking about the past Mississippi. You and I both know. Considerably better place than it's ever been, but as long as that flag is flying, it is going to open the state for criticism and by the way it wasn't worth it today. And I know the governor there a little bit, and he's a smart guy and just take the stupid flag down. That's all I'm saying. Yeah I agree and I appreciate it on, thank you well. Thank you a really nice of you to call We are continuing with more calls in. Dan is in North Carolina Hello Dan. Yes sir. Thanks for taking my call. we have you know we have these monuments. We have these flags. We have these things and people say we take these down. We erase history. History exists regardless of what we do for these monuments and flax. It's what we honor in history that is what is important, and what is offensive about these things that we are choosing to honor the confederate flag to me. You can say it means. You know the confederacy. The you know the slavery. You know you could say that to me as in my lifetime, it means white opposition to integration is what it means to me. Does it mean different things to different people? Sure, but you know I'm just telling you what it means to me and what it means to different people and taking those things away does not mean that history is gone. It means that we are choosing not to honor those things. Those things are not honorable. We should. We should not. Be. We should not have monuments. We should not have people flying flags you know in the state of Mississippi or wherever NASCAR tracks where they are honoring, you know. What to me is white opposition to integration. What other people is You know the history of slavery it it. You know I've I've heard other people I've lived in North Carolina for a long time that people saying what it means to them. It's a southern heritage. It's it's all these things. Well. All those things to me mean. You don't respect black people. You want to put black people in their place and it is. It's offensive to me. And I you know I would I would I would be happy if I never saw any of those symbols again. Yeah I appreciate you, saying that I've heard both sides of it. you know when I lived in Alabama and I. Try you try to be sympathetic because you don't want to. Disparage somebody because you know their family I mean they're family fought for what they believe in. That's that's the history of the world. Okay, I may not believe in it, and you may not believe in it, but that's what they believed in, and I've always heard them. southerners tried to say they're honoring their whatever but. There comes a point when you just have to. You have to move on. There's nobody alive. That was in the civil war. I mean I'm sorry if your family got wiped out at. VICKSBURG or Shilo or But I'm my family's been wiped out to It's time to move on with our lives hurting the people that are trying to make something out of their lives. Hey, thank you for the call. Really appreciate it up against a break much more to come. You're listening to the Paul Finebaum show podcast. and. We welcome you back here Tuesday afternoon. Great to have all of you with us and also really nice to welcome. Mac Ulsan to the program from the athletic There's so much going on right now especially. With players and covert Maxima deep dived into one program. thought they had some of the answers and found out. There in the same boat as everyone else, and then they reacted to it Max. Thanks for the time grey tabby on. Good afternoon Paul. So. MILLION PLACES TO GO. Let's start with Kansas State. really intrigued by your story. Here's a school that you really. Really really POPs up on the radar screen, fairly quiet and suddenly the things down for for a while. What would take us through the story? Yeah so you know Kansas State, everyone I talked to you know felt the candidate had a good plan. Good thorough plan for forgetting their football team back to campus safely back into football workouts and they brought in a group of more than ninety players, initially mostly their veteran players tested all of them, and they had zero positive test for for covid nineteen, and then they brought in a smaller group of players more of their you know freshmen and transfers, and a a some of those guys basically got tested on Friday. And didn't get the results back until Monday and over that weekend they were out with a large group of players added a few parties around town and you know Lake Party House party nothing too crazy, but they get back on Monday and to the players. Find out that they've tested positive. You know. They were asymptomatic, so they had. No idea that something was wrong or that they had it or anything, and of course, because of that it spread through the team and you had a few more players test positive, and then through contact tracing they figure out they need to test more than fifty players on the team again and and got six or seven positives out of that, and felt that once I got to fourteen and going from zero to fourteen, and and really a matter of a few days as they needed to shut things down and really reset here for two weeks and try to get back to zero. Max Interestingly was anyone else was anyone else? affected other than just the players. no, no, at least as far as we know, no staffers affect anything like that, and now they are going to a gene Taylor. Deedee told me that they are going to retest. Their coaches and staff has been around those players. This week, but that that's certainly part of the issue and luckily. They're not just. Doing this out of concern for their football team in their football season, but you know they've also seen a spike in positive tests in the county that they're in, and it's a small community. Manhattan Kansas so. They have to be concerned about you know. Are they sending Clare's out into the public? Who who would read this? Again we're we're still in the early days of of return to to work out so I mean these are all voluntary workouts and I'm just interested as you reported this story and talk to people Does it give you a sense at all? Where we are other than the numbers keep going up. Yeah you know it's interesting. I think we saw with Lsu and Clinton and case. Say these programs when you see the headlines. Last week about the number positive tests, how you see a lot of people sort of reflexively freak out and say there's no way there's going to be a season, but I mean to me in talking to talking to post this story and around the country think the senses what they expected positives now. They didn't expect pases in the way that Kansas State got them. Or some of the ways that maybe Lsu, Delasin, but part of this process is trial and error unfortunately, and you have to learn how to you know you have to learn how to establish and improve your protocols is go through this. You know when when a player test positive needs to isolate. How long did they do that before they recovered? You know when you do. Contact tracing after that and and have players. Corentin Kerala you know. How long do you have to do that and so I? Think part of this process. Is You know the case they didn't. Freak out I, mean they? They understood they need to things down and reevaluate their their protocols, but. Honestly Paul like we know there's not going to be a vaccine here in the next few weeks, so you have to learn how to manage this stuff and and figure out. How is this going to work in September? Yeah Anthony out she that a as possible we could see a vaccine by the end of the year. That's not going to help college football, maybe Maybe Baseball As you watch this unfold. Max and we're all trying to figure it out What do you here You certainly talked a lot of different people I is there. Is there growing skepticism, or is this something that you worked through and hope to rectify by the time camp opens here in a couple of weeks. Yeah I. Mean Look I think. Especially in the case of Kansas State? It's like this is a setback and you can't have. Too many more stoppages if you're GONNA. Try to prepare to to be ready to play even obviously, but you know certainly like the some of the pessimism skepticism that's come up in the past. I get it. It's warranted in some ways because. Remember we're. We're going through this trial. Run here with no other students on campus. So you know this is sort of like. The state bubble attempted this to try and get this right, and and they're still going to be you know mistakes made with this process, but man it's. It's hard to say because there's just so much. That's going to improve including just. Even testing, you know I mean I think there needs to be cheaper testing more access to testing. With more accurate results, I mean lots of basically there's still a lot that has to continue to kind of evolve here in the next few months forever and I feel like this. This season can go on in a way that if you feel like is similar enough to what we're used to. It seems pretty obvious. Max that there is a deep resolve to to get to the college football season. I understand that and why wouldn't you understand it but Have, you heard any of the. Contingency plans floating around I? Mean they're? They seem to be everywhere, but nobody is obviously showing them to people like you and but Y-. If if it doesn't go perfectly what what happens then. Yeah that I. I, I honestly I think we both wished that we we had some firm answers on that stuff and I think a lot of people are sort of waiting to hear you know what what guidelines are these conferences going to establish? Especially the five leagues I from talking to eighty and folks that schools. They're wondering what they're. League's going to tell them in terms of what the standards are at wh-. The backup plans are and you know look you got. It needs to be pretty clearly established because we saw how chaotic it was march, when suddenly the rigo bear deal happens and and all these conference. Conference Tournament and then tournament, and all the spring events all SORTA get canceled in one day right so you have to have some some plans in place so that you know with as much information as we gather here I know it's hard to make those decisions today, but yeah I think we're all looking forward to hearing what these leagues have to say about any additional. You really hope that they're collaborating with each other and getting on the same page of these things because I think that would be one of the more you know. Chaotic outcomes of all this is this leagues are all kind of different plant. In. When you talk to people Three weeks ago, everyone seemed really confident and story. We're talking about with you is clearly one of the most. Negative. Do, you feel the the case. The case state story the Clemson Lsu Florida confirmed today that they're in double digits other schools are you and I? Both know were in double digits, but they're not. They're not announcing it. Does this Does this portend anything, or is it just Is it still lay June and Decisions like this. Really don't need to be made for a few weeks. Well honestly, I I think that's part of it. I think it. It's interesting that the schools like Lsu and Clemson and K. State that that are transparent about this stuff and come out. And say here's exactly what we're dealing with. kind of get like the most negative attention for this stuff. Because as you both know, there's so many programs that are refusing to disclose what they're dealing with right now, whether whether it's better or worse, we just don't know so you like. You hope they're sharing that information with each other and you hope that these leagues have a good sense of what they're dealing with right now. Because that's that's hard for any of us to sort of report on this and to know what direction this is heading. You've still got a lot of schools who feel. That, it's their right, citing hip or whatever else that they can't disclose. They're dealing with and I think that information is really important right now. for everybody to have a good sense of of just the severity of this and what? What, what things need to change? And if this returned to campus plan is actually working so far. Max? Great piece in the Athletic Maxa one of these days we'll talk football hopefully soon. Thank you very much for coming on. Great thank you. You Bet. Great to have you on. We'll continue with more phone calls in reaction to all this after this. You're listening to the Paul Finebaum show podcast. Is your money not sure what to do with itself? Right now? At ally, they'll help it save for the future with their smart savings tools. Bucket your money for the things that matter most analyze you're spending and save automatically all on top of a competitive rate for all things money. You deserve an ally. Visit A. L.. L. Y. dot com slash savings for more INFO ally. Do it right ally bank member FDIC! We welcome. You back. continuing on and let's. Check out cabinet in Vicksburg Mississippi Hello Kevin. Hi, Paul. How's it going? It's great. Thank you, okay. I'll just call them and say oh. I do support the movement to change the flag because I've been missing my whole life on forty four years old I drive trucks but I think. The main thing I think it needs to be moved as you know, basically because of the racist by. And mainly because of economic value, a lot of people even before these protests happened won't bring a job to states like Mississippi. Arkansas high paying jobs for two main companies won't come because of the issues with the flags, and I think it needs to be moved. Because now I'm not gonNA knock anybody's heritage and say what they. Feel like their grandparents eat into seal awarded great grandparents, but maybe some of these people ought to think about the grandchildren or their great grandchildren, because there's no jobs here. What grandchildren and great grandchildren they're going to do. And I think it needs to be moved because economic value and spoils, the sports go with somebody who's players sitting out if you look at it, even black, not only black players, but even some of the white players won't come to old Miss Mississippi state because of what the flag represents what they coach represents. We have a lot of five star player in four star. Players will go out and go to another school to get a scholarship. And two or three years to play when it could be a starter admits to be an old miss, but they won't do because of their coach. and. That's all ahead on all. Thank you for. That is a great point. Thank. You Kevin really appreciate that. Let's talk to Dustin next. Who is in Mississippi Hello. Hey how's it going Paul? That's great. Thank you. yeah, I don't know man I get. Kevin's come from I I really do agree with him, but. It also is a part of history and a lot of people. Don't see it as racism. You know what I mean. Yeah I, mean I get that you know it had to do with slavery and everything, but that's not what the whole civil war was about. You know what I mean. I'm to the point now where? I'm going to leave the civil war to the historians. Again! Doesn't really matter to me anymore. I know that sounds cavalier, but it didn't really affect me so I'm moving on. And I hate to see the guys from Mississippi state sitting out. You know what I mean I want them to get a chance and everything, but I completely understand where they're coming from, but I think everybody just needs learn how to get along man regardless no matter how bad or indifferent. was everybody's just we all gotta live here, you know. I understand that, but let me ask you this I. If. I mean Mississippi I I grew up. Twelve miles from the border so I'm I'm fairly familiar with the state If you put something else on that flag in prospered from it, what would be what would be the damage? No damage I don't see any damage because of it, it's just I mean a lot of people I guess growing with it and everything. It just means more to almost like you're taking. Mississippi away from I mean I know it's just a flag, but it's just like you're taking the history out of Mississippi kind. I guess. But I mean I I. I do agree with what Kevin said 'cause I mean you know there's no opportunity here you know anything. Help change to gain more opportunity with the thing that bothers me and I related the story. I'm on a show today. That scene by a lot of people with. Steven A. and Max! Kellerman and you know they're both ripping into the state I. I want to say guys. Have you ever been to the State Stephen tells a story about his one encounter and my point being. A lot of damage is done when people do what they did and if this flag was. Had A magnolia I. Don't whatever Mississippi Represents. The state wouldn't have been hit that hard and that that to me is the issue at some point, you just simply have to determine. It's not worth it any longer. Thanks for the call. David is up next Hey David. Hi Paul. Thanks for taking my call today I am doing great. Thank you. I am a long time listener and I. Talked to some of the guys who filled in for you but I've never had an opportunity to talk to you so I'm. Well I'm really happy. We made this happen. I I want to preface what I'm on say by. Every essay that I wrote when I was in high school anytime I had to write essays or stories I wrote about Martin Luther King Junior. My favorite day of the year. Of your show, it's Martin Luther King's birthday when we always get to hear what I call the call. Right now, this is an thank you for saying that. That you reply, but you might a statement early. You said that you said to caller that no one alive today. Phone the civil war right. Correct. No one, alive today on slaves either. That is also correct. you know the fact is that we are all that there is no black man, no Hispanic man, no red man, what we're all the same. We're all created equally in the image of God and I'm bud top a positive. You could take my blood and give it to a black man to say positive and Steiner's life You could take a Hispanic man. WHO's eight positive? Give it to me and sustain. My Life made me. And I really believe we cannot change history going forward by rewriting history. That's already happening. You know even. Let me. Let me say I don't WanNa leave your thoughts because we're unfortunately at the end of the hour. Really. Glad, we were able to talk. I think he made a very poignant. Point here and I hope we can continue this with a little more time in the future. Thank you very very much. We're up against a break. You want to give us a ring. It's eight, five, five, two, four, two, seven, two, eight five, and we're back with three more hours ago.