Big Black Hole Announcement
The fifteen seconds guidance journal Chan nine technician sequence spence nets three to one space bill. Good hello once again. Thank you for joining us on the Space Nets podcast episode two hundred one and thank you to all those people who sent his good wishes about achieving two hundred episodes. The three of you must've listened intently to know that it was as two hundred decide. We we do appreciate the feedback. A few people on various platforms. Santa's some NAS notes joining me as always is professor Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge. Hello Fred I under how you going good to your strident voice again. Thank you sir. Yes good to hear yours too and I hope you will still still in Oscillation assume. Yeah that's right but going well just working from home Carrying on carrying on as you do yes absolutely true and I went. We're starting to say the the rules being relaxed in New South Wales so people are starting to venture out. I think most people being very cautious but a lot of people taking advantage of the opportunity to visit family and friends on a very very limited basis and maintain social distancing et CETERA. But it looks like Whatever we've done to curtail spread of this disease has worked very well in Australia. Which is You know you got to tip you to the authorities. I now. It was a hard sale but most people have taken notice and we've with good selves down to less than a thousand active cases in the country. Now which is just fantastic. Indeed and fingers crossed. That will keep going in that direction. You know thoughts are always with people in other parts of the world where things aren't going anywhere near as well yeah. I was looking at the statistics in the United States. Today and Yeah I'm gobsmacked to be honest I don't WanNa dwell on that but G Some of those States in America really in a bad way at the moment But it's different for every country different rules. Different systems different capabilities seem to really be a factor as well but Here we are doing what we can to try and stem the todd. Now Fred we're going to talk about a quite a few exciting Situations that have arisen One of which We've only been able to talk about now. Because it's been the subject of an embargo and that's the European Southern Observatory's major announcement about blackhall. Now you and I can talk about this Because it's post embargo but this this has been sort of kept top secret wrought up to Wednesday. Not which is been Rather extraordinary and Other Fascinating Yan has to do with the ice moon of Europa which orbits Jupiter and we had a per about they twenty years ago taking Self fees of of your riper in Jupiter and everything else that sort of flights around at the twenty year old data. But now we've been able to use up-to-date technology to take another look at it and I'm guessing they've found some interesting things speaking of Europa. We've had a question from Adrian Crawford has asked a specific question about Europa. So that'll dove tile will and. Monique wants to talk about mining on the moon. The moon spending the news this week. seventy different countries. Certainly want to go back there Trouble with the Moon is nobody owns it and so this is going to turn into a scrum. Reckon so I will allow. We'll look at all those issues today on the spice knots podcast but I this very exciting announcement by the Euro European Southern Observatory about a blackhall. Which as I understand it turns out to be the nearest one to earth and it's not cemeteries I exactly. That's right so I'll say the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. That's twenty five ish thousand light years away. I you know. We sit in the direction of the Constellation Secretaries But it's behind all the Dustin Merck out there but can be detected by radio ways which is why called Sagittarius Star. That's the name of the radio source so this is a different story altogether and it kind of has echoes Andrew. If something we were talking about probably about three or four weeks ago the idea that there might be many black holes out there which don't reveal themselves by anything other than the way they disturb the orbit of Sta's nearby they don't even Chretien disc of swelling materialists plumbing plummeting into them and causing rays and radio waves to miss it. Just quiet Perhaps the technical word black hole sitting there doing nothing but minding their own business but actually having gravitationally effect nearby stars and that is exactly. Excuse me that's exactly what this story is about. It comes from the European Southern Observatory and actually this discovery was not made with one of the John. Eight point two meter telescopes of the the elti. The very large telescope. It's actually one of the smaller ones. A two point to me to tell the scope Lucia which is one of the two main observatory sites at the European Southern Observatory runs in Chile. So strongly was using that telescope. Have been analyzing the motions of a star system which is only a thousand light years away. It's basically a galactic would And you know easy easy to see in fact. This style system can be seen with the naked eye. It's in the Southern Hemisphere Constellation of Telescope. Him The telescope. Which is so. I think it's Scientists in the Czech Republic and the Observatory. Self who've done this this work and the really nice part of the story is the came as a surprise to to the to the investigators. One of the scientists says we were totally surprised when we realized that this is the first Stella System with a black hole that can be seen with the unaided eye on nuts. Yeah that's big news. So what we go he. We've got the STA Whose NAME IS HR. Six eight one nine very elegant name really for it but It's a double style. Okay so that means do a binary system once overseeing another and this program that they scientists working on was a study of double star systems but what they were amazed to find was that the observations demonstrated that this was not just a double style. Not just a binary pag going around their common center of gravity that that is something else in the system and basically one of the two visible styles will be an object that he's not saying every forty days Naturally the second stop at a much greater distance from from this in a pair. So what you? What you've got is a year. We've got this two stars. One of which is orbiting the but the one of them is actually orbiting. Something else as well. That's the invisible so a Another of the CO authors Dietrich Mada who's at So he says the observations needed to determine the period of forty days had to be spread over several months. This was only possible. Thanks TO EASE. Those pioneering service observe escape do which absorb observations in my south on behalf of the scientists meeting. That's a mode of operation that actually many a straw is how country and Australia have used since Three years ago A strategic partner of the European Southern Observatory so not a service mode observing that if you need observations over a long period of time you go and spend two sitting in Zia in northern Chile so yet the local stuff that to do the observations for you. And that's how they said seventy brought that out so the the the the bottom line Andrew is once again. Here's a quote from one of the co-authors invisible object with a massive at least four times that of the sun which is what this had to be It can only be a black hole become anything else and so that is the smoking gun. They always this The new era the style to the black hole of this spinning around once every forty days around something four times as massive as the south has to be a black hole is the nearest and the conclusion is a really interesting one because Let me read the from the ace of a press release if Andrew Strong Have spotted only a couple of dozen black holes in our galaxy today nearly all of which strongly interact with their environment make their presence known by releasing powerful X rays but scientists estimate the over the Milky Wise lifetime many more stars collapsed into black holes as they ended their lives the discovery of a silent invisible black hole in. Hr six eight one nine provides clues about where the many hidden black holes in the Milky Way might be the must be hundreds of millions of black holes out there but we know about the only very few knowing what to look for should put in a better position to find them this. This isn't sorry. Go just to say might be the tip of a very exciting iceberg. This could be the first of many that found by this technique so this is not only the discovery of the nearest black hole to earth. It's also the discovery of a way of finding them. Because of the way we found this one is that what the side. That's exactly right. That's the facts are gone. That's a giant leap. Forward really is a giant leap forward. I mean we actually talks about something similar to this probably four or five months ago. A another similar discovery. But I think this one is the one that really clinches it that we've got this way of discovering black holes by looking closely at the way stars excuse me stars in Binary Systems actually orbit. It's a very powerful technique and I think. Unlv told me about two more over the years. Yes I surprised. They've only found a dozen or so in our immediate vicinity over the years but as we have discussed these things are very elusive but it Naseem sit. They've revealed to us away of of now. Finding them in we we may be finding them in their hundreds of thousands in into the future We also talked in the past about The size of Blackhall's I think you did allude to the size of this one but just Give us a reminder. How how big is this? Did you say Yeah full-time Semester? Of the Sung Sung and that sort of sit in the black hole sizing chart it is Andrew under member. Where you have this I. It is a standard black hole that we haven't really had a definition for them. We know the trade in the world of astronomy. We referred to the Stella mass black holes because his the same as a style. And you know you again if talked about this before we find black holes in basically two different categories stellar mass black holes. The kind of like this may be up to ten or twenty times the most of the sun a the supermassive black holes it up to ten or twenty billion times the mass of the sun so a very little in between and finding new objects in between these another of the challenges what you might call intermediate mass black holes because they must be out there and we we think that they look principally in the sentence of globular clusters those things that it probably the remnants of galaxies that have been gobbled up by bigger galaxies like the Milky Way so there is a picture building up about giving astronomers method of finding stellar mass black holes. The not active that. They're not emitting xrays because of the accretion disks that's a really powerful step forward and it comes about once again because of the scientists of spectroscopy you're looking for that Dukla. Wobble they the thing that reveals planets around stars the idea that a planet pulls star slightly backwards and forwards and reveals the presence of the planet. The diplo level technique may new since nineteen ninety five but the This is an extension of that in a way kind of doppler technique but for things much bigger than planets for black holes so it's a very powerful finding them yet we we oughta one submit a paper or a An application or whatever it is we do to whoever is in charge of naming objects and suggests that these be called standard mass black holes. We ought to do. What do we know astronomer? Who's got context might to do that? Fred yes I was. It's going to suggest that this would be the International Astronomical Union wouldn't we'd have to. Ya and they would say well very nice but we've already got the name for them. We Call Them. Stella's black holes and tell you much I think as far as spice Nazis come that standard black holes Andrew. We'll call them a standard blackhall from here on if we were to do so. That varies from country to country. This is fabulous new. So it'd be a heck of a lot more to learn and this is probably some chains dragging for a little while Finding a A standard blackhall so close to Earth. And did you say it was Observable with the naked I was that what I heard. Yeah that's right. It's a visible to the naked. I am I don't have a note to the Magnitude which is a technical term used for the brightness of Stars Eight You know probably about fifth or sixth magnitude which is roundabout the You know the limits of visibility with the naked eye maybe fifth magnitude So would be a good candidate for a fighter. Graph are yeah. They'll be many of them. But of course all it shows up in a photograph is a single point of lies Because e you don't see any of this structure the binary star trove it because that's only revealed by the fact that you can watch the way the styles move around with a spectograph Checking registered losses as we call it so you know the this stop it will be any image taken of that part of the sky with with modern digital cameras It'll be it'll be quite bright because he's a naked eye star but he won't show anything different about it To to to the casual Luca. It's only when he saw analyzing the motion of the component styles that you realize that there is something very very special jump in this. Yeah we're Eighties Josse Excite. When non remember that Raw Dan? It's a wonderful discovery show. We'll get to talk about it again real soon. You're listening to space nuts with your host Andrew Dunkley and the good professor Fred Watson space nuts once again shouting out to patrons who support Spice Nuts podcast with a few dollars a month into the kitty. We appreciate your support and we greatly encourage it too but it's not mandatory but if you would like to investigate the possibility of being a patron you can do so on the Patriot. Website Heidari on dot com slash spice nuts. And if you think that's something you'd like to do great if not. That's fine too. We not going to hold a gun to your head or Stella Mess Blackhall or anything like that Betray trae on or standard like L. Patriots dot com slash space nuts. And we would like to thank those of you. Who ARE CHIPPING IN TO TO CAPE. This podcast alive and well. We greatly appreciate your support. Now Fred let's move onto the next topic of interest in this. One is very interesting too because this dates back twenty years when Galileo was hanging around Jupiter touring the fat taking a few peaks and they did take photographs of Europa the ice moon but he we had twenty years or thereabouts and bring analyzed some of the dot because you know the photographic technology Today's much more advanced and I'm guessing while La they've come up with a little bit more detail about this amazing little world indeed that so. This is not accidental. You know it's not just people saying oh we're going to have another look those from from from. Galileo this is all about preparing for the next mission to Jupiter Jupiter moons. There is one called Europa. A clipper which I think is now approved a check that within the next few years there's another mission called juice that you could try see moons probe which I think he's also a on the still love the night that one right Rossi Moods so these missions that will give us much more detail about the moons and of course as as as well known in the relates. The question that we're going to talk about in a few minutes Europa is one of the moons of the Outer Solar System that has the structure without a rocky call liquid water ocean over the top of it and then over the top of that a solid ice crossed European is special in. The ice crust is probably one of the youngest surfaces in the entire solar system. Fates estimated to be between forty ninety million years old. Now let sounds like a long time but That for planetary surface of the surface of a worldwide Europe is very young the cratered surface of the moon for example the southern hemisphere at the move which is heavily cratered is more like three to four while more like three point. Eight to four point four point two billion years old it dates from Italian when objects were hurling through the solar system pushing into everything. What is called the light headed bombardment? So the surface of Europa is not at all in fact there is there are no discernible crisis on it. But what there are is the markings. And the the classic. A Galileo spacecraft images from nineteen ninety-eight show these basically the show a surface that is crisscrossed by Brownish markings many of them very linnea and those markings in the original images. It's not really possible to distinguish what you're saying. They just look like Brown markings now. That Brown A still to be what happens when you've got a briny liquid likely almost like seawater filtering through the ocean beneath and then being radiated by the Sun's radiation experiments done a few years ago that showed if you've if you've got water that's rich in salts and minerals anew irradiated with Algebra lies and the kind of particle bombardment we get from the CELANI tons Brown Just like these the streets so the those original images didn't really show much detail and that's why this is such a great story because these what we're talking about today is a re re analysis of those images by a team Actually at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory led by. I think Planetary Geologists Cynthia Phillips and that is a fantastic project to bring modern computer algorithms to ban on images that we looked at and said great fantastic stuff and then put away for twenty two years and what they've done. They've shown that the terrain on euro per is not just an ice covering with a few black Brown streaks. It's gotten all variations in so The resolutions squat fine revealing things as small as a four hundred and sixty meters across Thereabouts and they are. The detail is now. I think quite staggering is on the Jet Propulsion Laboratory Website there are some of the reprocessed images and there are three different kinds of terrain that have been identified which was really recognized before and I guess the first as what's called the chaos terrain and that sort of tells it like it is It's like just lumps of solid material often colored Brown with which looks just like you've taken a liquid filled. Take a glass bowl. Fill it with ice crystals which kind of an input in the fridge. So they'll partly for he's over and then the stereo up so these these sorry ice cubes rather than ice crystals that they all tumble all around. We've seen something similar. Andrew on on the Dwarf Planet Pluto Light at the EDGE OF SPUTNIK PLATINUM. Does this exactly the same terrain and the mission scientists for the new? Europa projects think this countless chaos terrain on Europa comes about because exactly that that the surface is being fractured a remembering the title forces from the planet itself that pushing and pulling the service and the stuff breaking up into relatively small chunks which are then tipped around just like these ice cubes and giving this Essentially what's called chaos terrain to more different features have been recognized both really interesting on similar in that both long linear features maybe a few kilometers wide few tens of meters high the ridges anyway a few tens of meters high but but thousands of kilometres lung so the two different things on ridges which is where what. I've just explained you've got a long ridge of material Just a few tens of meters there were talking about a hundred meters or so high which a probably brought about when to kind of plight device compressed together and so you get a pushing up of the materials they collide remembering the surface is kind of emotional time dotcom with what they banned rock bands or anything like that but far different color. These are the opposite. These look as though there where two have ice of stretched apart a nicest grown in between them. Because what you've got is a broad region Ten kilometers wide which is very very smooth with the kind of Ridge. The Salad of it so hard to explain these two to these in words. But it's worth having a look at the pictures the A- The the the reprocessed images of Europa which is the buzzwords put into the jet propulsion laboratories website Jpl Go Okay. How big is you riper? It is bigger than me. If I remember rightly it's not the biggest of the Galileo don't have the number of kilometers Off the top of my head. It's very easy to find. The biggest of Galileo's of the moons of Jupiter the biggest moon in the solar system is Johnny made But the but Galileo himself not the space craft the astronomer discovered these full lodge moons Ganymede Europa Kelly stone and you'll is smallest. Ganymede is the biggest so that you are euro Presbyterian Ganymede and the beauty of them. Is that If you've got half decent Pair of binoculars or a half decent telescope you can you can actually say these From your backyard. I think I remember Years and years ago being able to do that because account remember the circumstances but Jupiter must have been in a good position for us to observe and Got Some amazing photos of Of the moons orbiting Jupiter with the NYC at all and. That's just such an amazing thing to be able to save from such vast distance the Coming up To be very favorable now for observing with small telescopes and Benach culas. It's rising lighting evening on the old sort of rise earlier until eventually it's what we call a position where in the sky all night and it's kind of closest but yet binoculars just about show Jupiter Higher Power and which is ten power magnification thereabouts. The problem with those is holding them head to he fix something but they would potentially show you the moons of Jupiter A small telescope is much better an especially face fixed on ella standoff something then you can see you can really see a from tonight. The way these moons change position which of course his what. Galileo Notice Stellian sixteen ten and technocrat among the pigeons because it was clear that not everything rotated around the earth. Yes and didn't he get into trouble for that one? You've got into trouble yet. Okay so we we've reanalysed the daughter and we've might always discoveries and we've got much more data Alabama Europa. I think it would probably be a good idea to just dove tail straight into the question. We have about Iran for Mallusk right Adrian Crawford Adrian Rights Hello Space. I headed question. I didn't now if you want to answer now. We don't want to answer. Anyone is an ocean planet possible. Well we actually tackled that Waco. So we've we've answered the question and I think I remember you saying that the earth was in fact an ocean planet one stage But then he goes on to us. Is it possible that there is ocean life on Europa Jupiter's moon? I was just curious if you guys knew the answer to my questions Just want to say that I really enjoy listening to your podcast. You continue on your own with your awesome work thank you. It's lovely of you to say So Yeah Fred do you. Do you think you right by. I think has been identified as a very potential Candidate for containing life as has enceladus. I think that's right so Yeah I think the answer to the question is yes spit on think. We oughta were elaborated more on that. Yet you're EXC great question and you're absolutely right undoing this perhaps One Euro per is certainly out there among the top two or three candidates for finding living organisms elsewhere in the solar system. The problem is out. You find them. Because if you've got a global ocean with a global ice layer on top which might be twenty thirty kilometers sake. You do have to worry about how you might probed down to find out what's going on first thing you do. Is You rent a space stroller? Selling eight that maybe. A space icebreaker probably the ethical questions. You don't really WanNa go and smash up the Ice Cream Europa. The European pretty. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly. Has shown evidence of plumes of ice coming from the surface. Exactly as we've seen with enceladus the the moon of Jupiter and of course the Cassini spacecraft flew through told us what's in it Revealed all kinds of very intriguing things molecular hydrogen which suggests that the The water has been in contact with geothermal vents at the bottom of this ocean The you know the minerals in it all kinds of organic materials all of which suggests that certainly for enceladus that may be processes in place that would give rise still living organisms in the bottom of the ocean a bit like the the the hydrothermal vents here on Earth. And knowing that you positive very similar structure to tell this is actually near to the sun sets a little bit woma although the surface is still in the minus subject and fifties sixties. The at the does suggest that may be The there is potential Finding living organisms in the oceans of erode and one way of doing that will be to do Kinda what Cassini has done on a Saturday to send a spacecraft or not I think the The Europa Clipper I think is designed to do. They still orbit the Moon. Europa and actually fly through plumes of material being released from Europa's oppose and analyzed that because what you've got there excuse me said free sample of the ocean frozen. It's just ice crystals but if you can analyse those ice crystals you can find out all kinds of things about the environment. They came from a lot of money on on an icebreaker which exactly although remembering my conversation with them Linda Spilka who's the WHO's the Cassini mission scientists. I talked to her last year because she was over to give some talks towards the end of the year She's working on something called. Ales. Which is an enceladus. I'm not sure what it stands for. But it's basically a thing shaped like a snake which is robotic and drop it on the surface of enceladus and he finds its way down. The cracks in enceladus is and has a look in the ocean of relatives to see. What Staubach. Maybe you could do something with Roper. Similar pull it. Yeah so the. I think one of the reasons why people are concentrating on Europa. The moment is much nearer than enceladus. It's a much quicker journey to get from to Jupiter than is to get from us to sunset in so will we might find results coming soon. A- Although of course there are plans to revisit to enceladus in have better as to what's going on to okay it is interesting A you confident that they could be lost in the waters of of Europa. Excuse me I think I've done. I've done this to you. Two weeks running there. Okay Look I. I think there's a really good chance that we'll find stuff. That might be quite different from what we what we have here on earth but would still be classified as living organisms. I think he's unlikely that we will find Fisher creams shrimp. Nothing approach for dinner. Wants and the but the idea of microbial life. My guess is that we're going to find within the next decade that yes microbial. Life does exist elsewhere in the universe simply because all the all the signs point to that. But we haven't found it yet. Yam said the drake equation will change if we find life on another world beyond our own so just in case someone bring that back up again win wins. Europa clipper due to get the. I don't know and I don't know whether they can go to lunch date yet. They need to check up on. Let me see if I can do that now. Andrew just to give an answer to your question I would look into it as well and NAM. But let's let's take that on notice and took for future date or but yes I in. The potential does exist for life on Europa the moon of Jupiter and potentially enceladus as well and just as a final sort of statement on this Fred Are there any other life candidates in solar system while the other one apart from the two week mentioned the other really strong candidate is tighten the king? He was going to say that. The the biggest moon of Saturn the only moon in the whole solar system with a thick atmosphere this curious landscape of lakes and seas made of liquid natural gas with rocks water ice but once again the reason ocean underneath that motorise so The the the better off without the could find anything talented. He could find microbial life that lives at minus ninety Celsius in a lake of a liquid natural gas the breeze hydrogen elites sexually. That's one of the things that's been proposed. That will be extraordinary. Just extraordinary vice life-form form. Yeah and again. We wanted to do Potentially some sort of test to say if it exists in the same plane as law phone oath or if it's a totally independent and self evolving entity that that's you know. Let's go to leaps ahead. We've already discovered loft beyond earth. Is it the same as life on earth? Has He got the genetic exactly? That's the next big question but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves but thank you thank you for the question potentially yes is the answer On both points we. We answered you question about water planets last week. You're listening to the space. And that's podcast with Andrew Dunkley and Fred. What's and now? Let's take a little break and find out more about our sponsor express. Vpn writer number one by Tech Writer. This is the one I use. I've been using it for a couple years. And I love it when I joined expressive. Apn now brand new new to the market. 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Every wakened not think this somewhere ran a thousand people in both groups which is just fantastic. And if you're a youtube follow we are there. We are on instagram. And of course we've got our website at bites the it said dot com slash spice. Nuts way you can not catch up on episodes as well you can also go to the space nuts shop which is getting more and more goodies into the Into the shelves. So yeah you can take a look at all of that And of course that's That's one of the several platforms where you can post questions to us as well. Now we have a question. He Fred from money in Sydney who is asking about the Moon I have a question that was actually put in discussion about the mining of the moon. If we're planning on of the moon will the amounts of white being brought back into ask all a system? I E effect the massive planet. Because of we are accumulating white that wasn't already found on the planet Bay have some kind of effect on the rotational position of our planet. And see how would they even think about bringing These mind goods back down to Earth as it is caught Already quite a dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere Thanks for your wonderful podcast. I've seven episodes left before I'm completely caught up and I plan to start again. That's right Walsum. You might want to tell us what happened. But that's That's manekshaw three part question about mining on the moon. Now we have touched on this before and the moon is in the news this week because there seems to be a new space race to get back there and that involves the United States and China and India and Japan think can't think of the plies involved because the moon is being looked at as the platform for MAS mission But the discussions surrounding the moon in terms of a potential mining. Exploits have certainly been around. Haven't defrayed the have and it's interesting to reflect. You might find useful. Let's through Monique's questions because that's the that. Let's talk about these things. So if he planning mining on the moon what he what you GonNa look for and the one that I suppose is high up in the popular. Imagination is the idea of mining helium. Three which is an Isotope pavilion does not much on the moon. But there's virtually none of it here on earth But it could. This is not yet been proven but the could form the basis of clean nuclear energy It would allow you to do something cold. Nuclear Fusion in amount of that doesn't release dangerous radiation so he could have a desktop nuclear reactor. That's the that certainly the dream of science fiction easiest think there's some physics behind to supported as well Helium three mining. If that does happen would be. It would have to come back to us Because that's what you want to use it. But the the amounts of being would be being mined microscopic compared with either the mass of the moon all the massive earth. That will be true. Anything that you were that you were taking on the bone because we humans yet we can make big holes in the in the ground some of which are very ugly indeed but ends of the dimensions of the planet or satellite like the Moon. They make no difference to the physical promises that the more likely to affect the atmosphere You know with things like fossil fuel burning and things of that so that's definitely a globally fact but the the rotation of the planet he told it and things of that sort have a has no effect until So that actually covers the first two of of leaks of questions. Yeah I suppose you'd have to bring back a massive amount of material like a huge percentage of the moon's mass would have to be removed and put on earth to make any difference. I would imagine yeah. Us physically physically impossible. Yeah in terms of any kind of conventional so the space fly. That's absolutely right. So what's more likely to happen? Is that what you mind on? The moon us on the move whether that's minerals for fabrication maybe fiber cash of spacecraft pots. This is one of the things that people envisage with asteroid mining that if you find a metal at metals on on an asteroid Then you can basically use those in space to build spacecraft which what would stay in space. You don't have to take things back to make them and then put the buck into space and like I like science fiction. I envisage a time where mega spice craft account to be built in orbit. An I think I'd agree with that. I think that's out. Show future in space. In fact I am a great believer in large rotating self gravitating spacecraft for long term habituation by humans. I think much better than taking the mouse. For example an actually. A bit more controllable. Different Story The the other thing though at until the kind of covers off the final one of these questions. How would they even think about bringing this mind? Goods back to Earth is over the dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere. Absolutely right so most of you use are either in space or on the moon but maybe the the more significant resorts that's on the moon is actually water allies Because that is itself a very very valuable commodity in space on water we know is existing hydrated rocks on the moon but also in the moon's polls crisis which never ever see the sun and are known to have reserves of simply is in the bottom of them. Now if you could Use that ice. Ah To make water which is very simple process. You've got laid in need solar radiation of course but but you can also electrolytes it. You can decompose it. Into oxygen and hydrogen atoms which gives you rocket fuel so ice is a very valuable commodity for the idea of further exploration of the solar system because the moon's gravity is much less than the earth. If you can get the water from the moon turned into rocket fuel you don't have to lift it off the surface that makes things much much easier for journeys domas for perhaps Future spacecraft to the asteroid belt and beyond so at that you know it is a real possibility and I think maybe twenty thirty years. We'll be saying Water extraction from the polls of the move that water be used to propel us to the outer regions of the solar system using Chris you don't have to go to the to get rocket fuel of good liquor cabinet and everybody's welcome different kinds of rocket fuel and once. Oh once social distances. We'll all be indeed manege. Thank you for the question. She she was a bit worried that it would sound dumb but now opens up so much dialogue and I suppose One thing I did mention that her question prompted in my mind is Is ownership among. You can't just go out there and start digging halls really. No one owns the moon in this these treaties in place to this particularly things but There are question marks at the moment because of the of the rice back to the moon for all as raisins although those being dealt with Andrew. So you're absolutely right that no nobody can own them. embodied in the Outer Space Treaty of Nineteen Sixty seven and nineteen seventy S A addenda. But the that has been recent legislation passed suddenly in the USA. I think in the UK and also looks looks and book which basically says that if you go to the moon dig up something and bring it back then. It's yours even though you can't stand claim you can't say well this bit of the Moon's mine you but if you go bring stuff back than that belongs to you and said pragmatic outcome based on. I guess the main mainly the experience of of NASA bringing back three hundred three hundred eighty kilograms of rocks and soil from the moon in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. It's not a new concept Fred because that was exactly how the gold rush worked. Yeah that's right. Yes and so in a sense that kind of spock's spice rice because linked to any of it but you can bring stuff back from his guts and get there and the semi's true story does well. Would you know you'd have the sense of deal with an asteroid fascinating all right? Thank you greg question. I do have one more question without notice. Red and LO and behold. You're going to be shocked but I can answer this one myself. Terrific care this. This one came from twitter while listening to episode two hundred deny hero Willie Wag tile at the start of the program. Yes you did. You did indeed and for those who are saying what the hell is a Willie Tyler. It's a small black and white Astrid in ninety bird it's an injectable and has a long slender rigid tile which wags and it's designed to stir up insects so it wags its tile and then spins around and catches the insects and that's why we call it a Willie Wag tile IDA now it's biological name was zoological time It's probably something much more complicated than Willie. Wag Tile but. Yeah they're lovely burden. I have this very nice sort of little twitter. And it's quite piecing and yes. Mr Offense or Fred's. I think it was picked up the wet towel in step aside. The out hangs around my study window. She's very very territorial. Which reminds me the other day last fraud. I was standing at the front of my place and I saw what I thought were five flying high in the sky and as they got closer to me. I realized that will five wedge tailed. Eagles never often see eagles in groups of more than two so they were five of them but my neighborhood magpies saw them to and he went after the any caught the tail end and then the funny thing was he came back. Oh proud of himself. Did a victory sweep believe it or not afraid but as he landed on the Lamppost at the front of my House. He got attacked by peewee. Just stood there gobsmacked watching all these birds go at each other. It was just remarkable night. Jared it's did fantastic and just a postscript rip era free. I think he's the worst. That is Willie whitetail. I would've thought swag tell us would be happy with that just for just frayed. We're going to wrap it up. Thank you fred so much. It's been great fun as always still can't do we'll speak again soon. We will indeed Fred. What's an astronomer at lodge part of the Spice? Not Tame as I you and thank you so much for listening and we do enjoy your Your comments and your questions any input at all On whatever platform And we do look forward to your company again from May Andrew Dunkley signing up. We'll see next week on another edition of the space podcast to despise podcast available at Apple. Podcasts Google podcasts. Spotify iheartradio your favorite. House plan also demand at God still? This is not quality podcast production from DOT com.