#hottakeoftheday podcast Episode 59 w/Bud Isaacs
Entirely Glenn we're trying the new weird in person. We're GONNA, sink all this. Like my clap. So. Here we go. What is going on hot take nation it is the are W here and. We've now done about sixty one episodes of this. We used to do them in person video. Then we moved to video because zoom and this is the first in person interview that we've done during coronavirus, and I'm very very excited about this episode I am joined by Bud Isaacs who I met I don't know if you know if he remembers I met him about eight years ago through some Chad. When I started my entrepreneurial journey and all gas and we reconnected last week and you know what the conversation was so good I wanted to record it and share with everybody. So bud welcome to the show. Thank you. I don't even know where to start because we have your painting on the wall we have your book and water we have. Military badges from Vietnam, we have horse accidents and we have an entire career that we can go with. So I guess I, WanNa start with Let's go with nine, hundred, eighty five. If I remember you were Petro Lewis Timeframe beginning of your career middle your career said by the time. Yeah my career started. Back, when I was in college I rough necked. Out in the Grizzly yes. Fields and down offshore and the Anna. So. It really goes back further because I sat my dad's coupe and. Kalinka California when I was six years old and he was showing me what happens when you can blow out a string of drill pipe And there was spaghetti everywhere so. My familiarization with the. Oil and gas industry. Is Through my father who was a petroleum engineer for Chevron for forty two years and we lived in oil camps all over the world. So interesting, you mentioned Chevron Today Chevron came out announced is one of the first deals I mean certainly I deal since corona virus that they're going to buy noble. I think we talked about it that your shareholder and Chevron tight me about. The differences like you you were a young man young boy, your father worked for Chevron. You've seen Chevron all this time and you've seen the growth in ESPN. We've seen the anti fossil fuel movement. You've seen everything really right from the beginning. Well, how would you describe if were to summarize the last fifty years about how different it is for a company like Chevron from your initial memories of them to now Most Chevron was company that when you went to work for you died in that position they you know your home was there. And Living Oil camps we were. Primarily out in the field, those camps were and including in. Kalinga and taft which are. Really in the I would say a whole of the world because temperatures there would get two, hundred twenty and it's nothing but oil and gas. and. Have to memories go all the way back. We also had a third faucet which was potable water because he couldn't drink the water that came out of the TAP. And As a child. Hell I couldn't. Go to sleep without hearing one wonders pumping in the background. So, it was a very very. Interesting Wonderful Life that that led me finally to go to Colorado School of Mines and get follow what my dad did is become a petroleum engineer And as I mentioned earlier today, I look back at mines and I would prefer to have gone back to Vietnam and have to go through minds again because it was so tough intellectually on me and I'm not a very. I'm not a very smart person. I'm just practical person. So thing I think about you being six and having the experience of understanding what by blowing out on a regular and I. Think most parents have today would have a six year old and their six year old is so coddled and so protected, and so isolated from the things that you were a kid, do you have any memories sort of freedom and learning the world and learning the ropes of when you were eight or nine? No doubt running running wild cat let's put it this way. GRANDPA, gave me a twenty two and I was nine years old. And all I had to do since we're an oil camps and there was nobody that I could destroy. Or anything that I could destroy I all I do is call my dad and I could go out and plink. As long as I had the money to buy the shelves and so we learned very early and really. What I think is the start of my. Formation, to what I am today. was. We went to Jakarta was twelve years old I went to a British school. Got Caned twice because I didn't learn my lessons which taught me lesson one learn your lessons. Then when we moved to run by Sumatra which was in the middle of the jungle. Again. I had a machete. And My folks. Let me take off into the jungle and chop trees and. Collect, tropical, fish and We even had a pet cub tiger, my dad shot the man man eating tiger that had killed some people in one of the camps and. Dad was in a position that he had the two guns that the camp was allowed. So I shot my first wild-boar when I was twelfth. and. So that's always been a part of my life is that adventure and and? The education, you get a resent A. Calvert system where we had one teacher teaching, K. through eighth grade. Then when I got through eighth grade. I went to. Episcopal School and the Philippines. Called Brent and A. Again the episcopal fathers were very strict disciplinarians and so I think I learned that discipline there my dad was also commander in the navy. Prior to US going. there. And so. His parents. Ran The Salvation Army mission in San Francisco. So they were very. Humble people. And I learned that lesson from him, and then from my grandfather who was an eighth grade. Educated plummer in San Francisco. How My Cup has always been half full. I mean even when I went to Vietnam and who really lived under a shelter half. For I was, they're thirteen months and maybe twelve of those was. Out really under. Shelter half. On the ground. and. I was a survivalist and I had. Blown up, you'd say nowadays I, D, in those days, we call the minds we miss the mine. Has Back in a truck cup and gloomy across the took out both. eardrums and henceforth I, wear hearing aids and don't hear very well. So what will you living overseas and old? Were you when you I guess were you drafted into the war? No. We were over there. I came back as a sophomore in high school. Living with my uncle who was dean of engineering at City College Seven. Cisco. Then my dad got transferred back to New York and I finished up high school in Greenwich Connecticut. I wanted. To. Get. Back. West. I'd never been to Colorado never been to Colorado school mines I applied and got accepted in. Sometimes I've wondered. What I've really gotten into because it's a tough school when it's a tough school today and I'm on the Board of governors there. And we WANNA keep it that way we want to provide a product. For Industry or not. So interested in. Learning, how to? twiddle your thumbs as much as we are. And We're in the. Business just like anybody else's we want to have a product that people want and so we want our graduates. To be demanded by Industry and they command some of the best salaries in the country. So so you had graduated fully from Colorado School mines before gone over to them no I went to Colorado school mines was in ROTC. Okay. And so at that time in ROTC. We were allowed to work for a year before we had to go back to the engineering basic course. And Become A full-fledged lieutenant second. Lieutenant. and. So when I got and that's where I met my wife of fifty three years. was, seventeen I might add and I had already graduated from college worked for a year and she was just a youngster. But it's worked out. Fifty three years would says the fifty years we're proud of that. And so. When I was down Fort Bragg with St- doing. Nothing really biding my time for my commitment. Vietnam. Started and they were asking for volunteers. So volunteered to go to Vietnam because I could get jumped pay because I'm Mayer born I go get combat pay. and. Regular pay. So it was a rate, almost double, my two hundred and something dollars a month salary. And I said why not I mean if I'm going to be here might as well do it. And? It turned out they needed an officer with one hundred and first engineering officer and I happened to be in the. REPCO depot, they called it where you came into the country and they moved me up there instead of with the outfit I originally been assigned to. And my six day with the unit whose when I got blown up. And I was only out for ten days. It was just like an shot with buckshot because those days they just used bamboo and TNT basically, and we missed stat line when we were opening highway one and it caught my. My dump truck and My dump truck driver me. All. were. Wounded and back. But who in-country Medevac and so I was there ten days later. and. On that same highway. I think my first day out maybe my second day out we came under fire and I had A. Regular jeep with a radio on the back of it. And incoming around took out the tire and missed my knee by about two inches and so. I knew what I was there for can. Take no prisoners I would say. which led to what I showed you earlier that we were very. It was a beep fifty to read. Most people won't remember the lonesome from West Point Carpenter was his name captain. Carpenter he got in a valley in got in a cross fire and left. I don't know. Four, or five. Missing in Action Kia's behind. So my mission was to go in the what they did find was a regimental headquarters and. We were helicoptered in with ammonium nitrate chargers to implode those. Tunnel complexes we couldn't get into him because the gas that it had be fifty two raids so. In the. Thick of that. We saw. A valley that was not being looked at by the hundred by the infantry. And we got permission to go down and we ended up capturing six uniform north. Vietnamese one of a higher rank than mine, which was considered quite a big deal at that time. And for that, I got highly decorated and. I saw the metals and and I was just thinking back to when I was I mean you must have been twenty, twenty two. How old were you at the time? I'll be seventy nine next month at how old were you then when you were in Vietnam math wise. Fifty years. Twenty two, twenty, three somebody and I think what? I was doing it twenty two and twenty three and having gone through school and then go over there and on day six you're your bombed I mean get an like effectively. Action for ten days and then just that. And then and then you hear a and this is no disrespect to the millennials of today but but this these protests and and like how troubling things are today and yet you think about what you were facing coming out of college and just how different life was and and the you're waking up every day like literally fighting for life and death and. It goes beyond that because. I'm married the general's daughter after I got out of service. My Dad was commander in World War. Two in our family. We have eleven and a half years in Vietnam. All of. All of us are. Sound of mine nobody on drugs and pretty successful and So I have a low tolerance. For what we're seeing now. And for the victimhood. That everybody wants to. either. Be categorized as a victim or claim to be a victim. Because I, think. You know. Though diller rights means that were all given. Know we all have the same opportunity, but it's up to you to take advantage of the opportunity and. I know too many people that came from nothing both black white, yellow and green. And they have risen. To levels that are just very successful matter of fact, I have Endowed Scholarship Colorado School Mines for anybody that's veteran. When the GI bill money runs out then they go on my scholarship and. I've always believed in helping those that can get out of the fray. And need a little hand up to get over the top and I've put a couple of illegals Colorado school mines that have done that. and. It's just. It's pretty thin at the top. The trial gets very narrow at the peak. and. Some. Are another the country today Wants to give more empathy those in the bottom tier than the guys that have struggled through it. made it. So my effort and support is for helping the people that need that other hand up. So when you came back from, but before we leave you nominee, is there a story? And I know when when we were chatting last week, one of the things that really struck me was how optimistic you are like you're half a glass half full like. Earn et Cetera there must have been a time when you were feeling depressed or sad or questioning your life choices in Vietnam or do nothing. Yeah I would say the only time was when I had to look at the board after we took. A fight cam or a doubly. With Quiz O. Physically. All the stuff in school would they put post your score on? The board just to a number. So not everybody knew but I could normally find mine because it was pretty much at the bottom core tile in the talk and. That to me, there's I've mentioned before. was maybe the toughest thing. Is I. Knew I had to survive I. mean there was no alternative. Because my dad was one who said, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And while there was always a support system there that was pretty much understood and. I think. Where I was going. I do get bifurcated when I tell stories, but we're always going by. When I was a freshman in high school I did not see my folks for twelve months when I went away to school in the Philippines because in those days, you didn't fly back and forth. So I became independent pretty early I had an older brother that paved the way but. That probably has established. Why I'm as independent as I am now, I just learned that. You got to depend on yourself he can't depend on. You depend on the people that work for you and you respect and you're always going to be in the service business you're always going to serve. Either a greater God or a greater employer. And it was drummed in me very early. That the better I'm that Guy I'm serving look the better off all. Because he'll carry along so To this day I don't mind. You know. Basically if We had a big tree go down in our yard. I was out there buck and brush and cut met and throw it into the chipper. You know that just me that's the way I like to do it. So you got back from Vietnam and you weren't married to your wife at the time. No but I was struck me when I got back. They goes out of a plane load of three hundred fifty guys came back from Vietnam when I came back in the war was still on but we. Derive, Stout She was the only round i. Met The plane. and. What that I mean we'd been in the age of so. You know it was pretty nice to see this blog. Hazel died. And everybody on that plane one of that. GonNa take this one. So. So you got married and. You have three children have. Three children. Our daughter, who is fifty? Has Three daughters, and they're moving back the town. and. Our middle son was adopted because we went five years without any luck in then. Chad whom you know was born seven years to the day after my daughter was born. So thinking about the lessons you learn from your parents and the lessons that you've learned at Colorado School Mines and then in Vietnam and thinking about the way you raise your children either in the same way that your parents that are different. What what were some things will philosophies that you had as a as a parent? You'd have to ask my wife more than me because I was working. And You mentioned eighty five I'll go back a little further I came up here after working for. Chevron for one year before I went to Vietnam then working for union oil when I came back because union. I wanted to get as far away from the Orient as I could. So they promised me that I could go to Alaska. So I worked six months in. Santa Fe, Springs California, and the oil patch. They're the old oil patch than I went up to Alaska for four years. and. That may have been my toughest decision. Was To leave Alaska. I'm a hunter and fisherman and outdoorsman, and it's a paradise for sure then it was. And although my wife on the other hand wanted to get back to the world. And so. What was the question again I I was I was certainly in terms of the learnings that you had is as a in you're talking with the kid by working all the time and that's my memory of my father and my my wife's father we always working all the time. We. Started early camping. When we were in West Texas I bought a interest in a little. Ranch down on a ranch and a little. Motel ish place on the river down southern Colorado used to drive up. We took the kids from the very get go out tent camping hiking. Soon as they were old enough to hold a weapon I had them shooting. Justice last Christmas. And Durham North Carolina we took all three girls, their mother and my wife, and I went to shooting range. And they had the time of their life, you know people. Have always been around. Guns so it's natural for me. Just I'll give you the conversation earlier today with the Cherry. Hills police because we've got coyotes again in our neighborhood. And police officers central. Why don't you shoot them I said because they're not giving me a target. So. It I've always loved and. We all have. Our avocation, but we all have our. What is it? I'm missing the word but What we WANNA do and I've been very involved always in the environment and and this is pushed me to the project. We talked about earlier on Upper Colorado River which I which I really. WanNa. Talk about because. I, think it ties. I mean you have a book that's called water and you had a whole career and oil and the environmental. So natural but also the the the outdoorsman ship in the the stewardship of the environment is so integral to everything did growing up but also as an oil person also has a water person also has an environmental person I could say it's all tied together. Well. People don't. Appreciate. What it means to be born and North America. Having lived. where? On. We'd flush the toilet. You could watch it go down the drain and our house where they're open sores. And Jakarta back in Nineteen fifty-six. Coca Cola came in a big can that you took jigger a coke and a soda water that. Put in a cartridge to. Get Your Coca Cola. So I think. I've had a unique experience and living and bean I the minority. In Jakarta, there were bid just purged all Dutch. So there are no Europeans. There were just the embassy personnel for. The British embassy and for the Americans, those are the ones I knew I didn't know about other ones but. I learned to fights I learned to play with the guys in the street I used to ride my bicycle. Out Six miles from my house to the only guy that I really was close English speaking friend. But I learned to speak Indonesian at the time and survive. You know you just arrived. So I have really. I've tried to give that to my kids I've tried to say that. What you needed a on as your own. Skills Your own attitude to life and and we've been really blessed with Three. Successful our call. Children. And Our daughters coming back to town with three daughters. One's getting her masters north. Carolina in public health, she'll go on to be a doctor like. Both her mother and her father are. And then the other ones at Dartmouth. And the other one we're very proud of the other granddaughter just made the Southern All American Lacrosse team. So she's Still out there because they have turn among of all the all American. Picks and it's really a college thing. It is you talked about your upbringing and all the experiences you had, and then the teachings the you gave your kids and and then your kids were successful and then by by the bike's engine, your grandkids have. All followed that template and there's always a saying I remember and I remember when I first heard it but it's the first generation makes the money. The second generation keeps the money in the third generation blows money but you really are principal and focus so much on giving back to the community and earning things with your own hands and you you've really build it three generations of of workers and people contribute I mean. What advice would you give parents who are looking at their kids now and saying man, what can I do to be better advice I would give. Discipline. Education. And find. Which love to do. And if you can marry him. I've always been a hunter or fisherman. So, being in charge of acquisitions for Petra Louis, when I had infinite money to spend at that time to buy properties was no different. than looking at a river. Scene a fish that's feeding and try and figure out how can I get him So that's always been my. What's motivated me? and. We're very fortunate. That our daughter married a Canadian. Who is the top one of the top hand surgeons in the country he'll become back to he's back in Denver heading up the hand surgery for. and shoots. And I really think it's the parents. More than the grandparents. It raised the kids. Thought as long as we're live and the grandparents can associate with us. Even though they don't all agree with. My Conservative knows? They all think and the the one thing I tell all my college and and The youngsters we've still got Chad as eleven year old and a nine year old soon to be. Is You know you gotTa have respect. For Your elders. You GotTa do the best you can at whatever you do. But. You GotTa have some discipline and I see too many of our friends and kids around us that. Really. Haven't had that and then they. They don't set their own template, their own goals I mean I was big in the boy scouts here I was council commissioner for number years. Put On camp out here and The beauty of the boy scouts is they establish goals magnetic from the time you're a cubs scout you've got. These little whether it's Wolford whatever lion. You've got a way to move up the ladder and every time in the scouts you move up on the ladder you sit down with an elder said what your next goal isn't going to reach it. And so we have. So far all our grandkids have been big achievers in any of their whether athletics or. Whatever and? There's nothing wrong. Striving to be the best that whatever it is. The other thing I tell them all as a trade. I? Don't care what it is. It. Could be a trade. It turns out because our granddaughters have to doctors nurses parents was going to be a doctor another one by one at Dartmouth. Wants to bio research. And a little one wants to play. Lacrosse. That's. So but she's one of the best at what she does and and so. When we were, we were talking about that with when you when you think about success and you think about Warren Buffett and you think about you know the guy that came over from Vietnam who lives in danger and had nothing and now has three trucks and fifteen employees and managers, entire neighborhoods and coming from where they came from. There's nothing almost more successful than they've achieved unbelievable and I've seen growing up my my parents had had nannies for us. I don't think this comes. This is a prize to a listener that maybe a little silver spoon on me but. But, I've never seen anyone work so hard to make her kids life better than hers, and that's what I don't always see in in in my peers who grew up in. North America and the work ethic of of people who come here and who know what it's like to be in. Indonesia or the Philippines and have nothing, and then come here and have the opportunity and they day all take it. They really do. It's amazing. It's some. There's nothing holding you back but yourself. Just like the fair with covet. We unfortunately got Kovin. I. Know We're GONNA hang out eight hundred eleven of our family. And? Chad and his sister brought back from Heli scheme where they were skiing with the guy that had been in Italy now whether that's where it came from who knows. Nonetheless. We got it. We isolated. It was no worse than the flu for me. And I'm. You know. I've had three different cancers last fifteen years and I'm surviving them without any problem. And so I was a candidate. But. I was out. Buchan brush. Six days after I. I had the temperature and not went away and then it came back again. My wife on the other hand went to the hospital I. Wasn't sure she was going to come out. Never. Put on a ventilator because her oxygen levels were high but she got viral and bacterial pneumonia. And that was ten week ordeal for her. Now. She's out driving me on the golf, and so you can recover and the world's going to go on and. This henny penny. The Sky's falling scenario that we've got around us right now. is terrible because it. It's showing examples to our kids that aren't really. The ones you WanNa have and the kids aren't really that affected I. Mean there. We have to Chad's kids tested. Positive. For antibodies and never had symptom at all. and. It's going to weed out some people people that have issues are going to. It's it's a killer. Highly contagious. But we'll get through it. You know. So what would you do? You have having had it but also with just your your breadth of experience in life and and and give no one could ever say that you are not a contributor and your the kind of person that people would want to politics quite frankly because you have all this life experience and you, you can balance trade-offs if you were in charge and let's just take Colorado for now and you're you're governor police for a week. What are you doing similar or different? The you think helps. Bring things. To a head or whatever. But in Cova, but then also we both know that that the economy is GonNa have some there's a big disconnect between the market and the economy, and we're GONNA have to live with this for a long long time. I'm curious you would do. If, I were polos. Declare I'm independent and have no political issues number one. Because the politicians are playing this both directions and it's terrible. I would be respective of what we've learned. We've learned that masks do help. We've learned. Isolation. Helps but isolation kills other things. I think the biggest thing I would do is find. Any way possible to get kids back in school. And do it smart I mean. If you look at the science even though the science seems to be changing every day, we get new readouts on science. But for what I've read from what I know from my doctor. Kids. Is that. The youth are gonNA live through this. There may be a few that don't. They might not have anyway. And If we. Slow down a year in here. It's GONNA be multi years later on. and. I have suggested like to Chad Chad. That if the schools are going to do it over the Internet, not have schools. Let's go hire a teacher get three or four families have kids the same age. All pitch in to pay her or him whoever? And let them teach out of like I learned out of Calvert of a book that gives you what you have to know when you'RE A. Fourth Grade Fifth Grade Sixth Grade. Yes. They do have good books. And there are a lot of teachers, you know dislike our granddaughter at Dartmouth. She's a sophomore she's made the crew team as a freshman. They're still not sure what they're going to do, but she thinks dartmouth this gonNA come out. That on campus is just going to be for juniors and seniors. And the rest of them are going to have to. Do it over the Internet and she's not that she took statistics physics and chemistry this semester on the Internet and she says it's not a good experience. This is a kid that's scored thirty five out of thirty, six on our act's. Who likes the competition? She wants to get the A. And This past fail that they're doing in these colleges now is Really teaching the wrong participation medal. Yeah. Well, participation in your athlete, you know what? It's like. To work your butt off to be the best. Squash. Player in Canada and it takes sacrifices but. As It's a motivator for you and your life and and I think. If I were sitting in his position. I would listen to the Teacher's Union listen to the science and what they've learned in. Singapore and Taiwan and Iceland and the places that have sent kids back to school and done fine. And protect the teachers but. Let the kids be kids and learning school when you you believe so highly an education and the point that you just made and it's just the reality is those who have been more success more successful, relative more financially successful can afford to hire teachers and can afford to make different choices for their kids and so I mean I'll fully admit we have. Been Huge Sports Public School, the entire time, and as soon as we found out that they were going to potentially delay all of the things that we had our son in public school for was to learn how to engage with everybody and that he was getting taught how not get punched in the face in the school yard and other people were learning about. The things that he was aspiring and thinking about college and thinking of where he was GonNa do this and so like that interplay was so important and now that it wasn't there we're like, okay, we're gonNA, pull them from. Now we're going to put them in charter. The charter is going to be a whole bunch of like minded kids. It's online is highest education because we didn't feel like he got the right experience. DPS and so now the difference between him and someone else who should have the same opportunities going to be much. Much, different it seems to me that we're totally going backwards against all the opportunities that people are fighting for, and even what black lives matter stands for to give opportunity. But if people are in school and kids aren't interacting in learning and engaging, then it's just going to be about what your parents had and how successful your parents were. Because if your parents were successful, we will find a way for our kids to be successful that doesn't feel like that's what this is supposed to be about now and I think that the politics. Has played a big role in that and. You. Know you wonder where the common sense is? I think common sense is probably the most important. god-given trait we all have and When it's leading you to failure and repeating the failure over and over again, you don't give people you teach people. You know there's the old. Don't give them a fish, teach him to fish and catch fish, and then they can go on with it and. We've put in so many programs so many crutches along the way. At people aren't learning that, and so they follow the loudest voice and. They're getting taught I. I'm not. I don't really approve of what they're teaching in school anyway now. Because it's a very You know we're all bad. House white guys. You know I don't say I'm German American I. Don't say you don't say you're a Canadian American. You're an American man and we're all American and extremely patriotic. I've got standing in that. I come from a family I've got to in laws that are with joint operations in. Doing things that the public doesn't know about, which is good. Because they have to be done. I got another one. That's a full colonel teaching at West Point. So. We've got a lot of military in our heritage and Military teaches discipline. And in buds world if I were. Imposes position. Anybody defaced anything would be out there on the hottest day cleaning it up. I would gather up those people all of them. And, put them out. And make him clean up what they've done. If you look at the graffiti around the capital, let's look at the homelessness we on our bikes on our. down. The PLATTE. Has We got the Evans from Chatfield. You look on the other side from where we were. It's all homelessness. Then we came back in a little dry creek. There was a guy in their freebasing. With his propane torch. That's not what we want for our kids. And The only way you do it. Is. You have discipline the British you know I got caned. But after my second time I never got caned again ever. And I got through all the school that was really tough for me. So, there has to be lessons learned. And sometimes it takes. What I've said ten times now. We need we lacked discipline in this country. It is interesting to think about how ebbs and flows and I think about obviously I wasn't born in the sixties but I think about the sixties as being this sort of like an v Vietnam than peace and love and the sexual revolution and all that which then swung so hard the other way in eighties because of the AIDS virus. Everyone. Was So and then parents who I even remember being allowed to roam and go wherever I was going. Go My parents had no idea where it was very independent and now you know helicopter parents and these ebbs and flows is society but it does feel like were a lot less strict and were so afraid to offend and we're so afraid to discipline and we're so afraid to say our mind say what you really mean or overprotection. Is If they're city word yeah. We. Want the coddle. I mean I give our son credit. His kids ride from his house to his Ex's house all the places in between which is probably a six mile area and they're eleven and eight I think. He would be. The the liberal fraction who espouses all this freedom. They'd go crazy with that. Right would say he's abusing his kids. He's not abusing as kids. He's letting them find out how to cross the street, how to cope with something that's not in a regular pattern. And these were your building resiliency like you're. You know you have to know your parents are not going to solve all your issues I always used to. We have a gay middle side. And he always used to say. Dad what was your favorite time and I said the fifties everybody was out doing something and it was pretty clean what they were doing and and he says Oh that's the worst time. And so that in itself. Gives me another perspective of how different people look at different things And It's educational for me but I still stick with my conservative values because I think that's what creates people that contribute to society. More than people that hang onto society in this country of what I read is right which you can't believe anything read anymore. Is. There are more people. On the government Dole than there are people earning wages from outside the government. And it's it's like sixty forty. It's not a tiny number. Pretty soon, they're going to run out of workers. A good friend of Mine Ed mcbain he used to say. The minute you got more people writing the wagon then pulling the wagon it stops. and. That to me defines where America's going right now what I love 'cause yourself professed conservative person and again in today's Day and age it's like Oh if you're conservative Yo your they then they and you get labeled and yet as you said, if I if I heard correctly or middle son is gay and like it doesn't matter you have values and discipline and knowledge and you give back to society and you're you're involved with the Colorado school mines I mean you you just give all the time and I think people mistake that just because you have conservative values doesn't mean conservative people aren't paying attention to the world are all you know greed is good and capitalism is bad and all this. Of In there in the book oil and. Talk about the book I really. Views on. The reason that oil and water stairs because you look at the environmental good things have been done in this country. It's been fueled by people that have been successful. So the money that I can put in to cleaning up the Upper Colorado river is money I made out of extracting oil and gas or buying companies. And so. There's are the very people the ones that are successful that are actually contributing to things like. What we've done up at the. Up in, may upper Colorado. River. I mean the upper, the Colorado. River. I'll. Save feeds feeds liquid. To eighty million people in the whole south. West. And it's resource that if we don't take care of and we keep abusing. What's going to happen or are cities going to look like Montevideo, where they go from a very successful to where all these buildings are vacant and The homeless move into squatters move into your property. I've seen those places in the world have been there at scares me to death what's going on now? And so well, water was written. Because I wanted to tell my grandchildren because I'm not very good storyteller even though you've got me talking. I, I'd like to talk about myself unfortunately. I wanted them to know what we we had done and. The water in Colorado, Denver in the east the Western. Slope went eastern slope when be here if it weren't for the western Slope Water Just in northern Colorado between. Really. Colorado Springs and. Fort. Collins. They transship, and now my number's going to be a little bit wrong. But close to five, hundred, thousand acre feet of water so that we can water the population on this side that means green lawns nice trees. I look at a picture. Of, the House that I live in that, you're in right now back in twenty seven when it was built. This there wasn't a tree, it was all juiced yellow hills. We see out as you go a little further east away from the water. So the water that we bring over. Keeps. Our farm belt up around Greeley and Fort Lupton that area it keeps those lakes full it keeps the irrigators with water. And it feeds the consumers down here in Denver and Metropolitan Tri County. and. It's an issue. Here that a lot and you've obviously you've spent a long time we talked about this. You have a five hundred. That is looking at rerouting water flow and we won't get super into the details of that. But you saw an issue and and you've sort of helped mobilize an entire community around this being a good idea, public funds, private funds, trout's unlimited. At. But when people hear about the water crisis and I think that. The medically has been a real issue over the last ten years in the people. The next big issue I. Think people really worry about is water and it's even to me bigger than climate change because without water, you can't have a population in any center. Would you characterize as the biggest issue we have with water and what can we do to really mitigate it broadly for this country and and for for the world if that's not too big a an ask. Good very good question. We in my website. You cred dot us. We have a video in there that trout unlimited did were they went down in Denver. And they asked people on the street where they thought the water came from. Now I'm sure they had people that did answer the get filmed right but the ones they filmed. It comes out of the Faucet. kind of like energy. We just plug it in works. I don't know where. These just comes from God. So education again. Is probably the most important. there should be a subject taught all through. The southwest where we are watered deficient. They should be educating. School. Where your water comes from how it has to be treated. How good like Denver Water does in providing Reasonably. Priced water just like we in the energy provide for the cheapest energy in the world. People don't look beyond their nose. And Being an earth scientist. I mean, I just sent my wife out today. To get one, there's a book. Ancient. Denver I think it's called it matron science. That shows the real history. OF DENVER THE GEOLOGIC HISTORY and. It shows what bugs, what animals, what it was like during the Cretaceous in the Paleozoic and the. More recent times and how the mountains uplifted. I think. We've taken a lot of that out of school. And You know one of the most. Important education programs I ever had. was. I. Was in. Sophomore in high school and my folk sent me to a conservation camp for a week. and. We saw the bug life. We saw the animal I mean. I could show you video that I have that I've taken the last four or five mornings veil. Of a water Ouzo the dipper bird, the duper bird is the canary in the coal mine. We lost our dipper birds on our ranch property up in the Upper Colorado River. That's the first telltale to me. That when they live off the subsurface bugs, they may be terrestrial bugs but things that are on the water they swim underwater, the eat underwater. And they. are, very, amazing burt. And so I'm actually working with my video for. Cousin. To put on the video I've got the poor Zach firm up in boulder doing sort of a primer on water and Water Law because. Water rights mineral rights, and they're very hard. To breach that anywhere. But given a water, right you don't have the right to destroy the riparian area. Because so much depends on that area repairing areas, the area that's around. The water flow rate wherever you got a stream, you've got an area that's very healthy. And so Where we've been able to go to this battle is we don't want to take your water rights. They're yours you got on there just like a mineral rights, just like a royalty in our business. But, you don't have the right to destroy the land around it, and so we've met mounted excuse me I e. Effort in two thousand eleven, we have formed a five hundred, one c three with George spiritually who. Unfortunately died on me about a year after we did it, he was a developer of the Tech Center and out at inverness. Very very, bright man. But an old Colorado. His Dad was down in southern Colorado and did some of the first irrigation bringing water from the West Talk to the east slope words drier. And so he was very much. The one who got me so passionate about what can we do to return the river to what it was when I first came to? Colorado in nineteen fifty nine. And that's what the whole issue of my five. Oh One C. three is understand the science on what has caused the demise of certain species tax in the river. Understand. What's caused it. And what we can do to correct it because we all talk densify the problems. The problem we have in this country. Is Solving those problems and the social ones are the hardest ones. But this is I tried to tell by grandkids. Pick problems that you think you can solve. Don't waste your time on solvable ones because you're not going to do anything. So get the expertise. Get the mileage, the training, the education. So that, if you identify something. That you and your mind. Thank you can fix. And pursue it with all your passion and enthusiasm that defines my life. So we talked a little bit about homelessness and and. I think of it as it's a major problem for lotteries. Since we can talk about the economy, we can talk about the shutdown. We can talk about the loss of jobs. We can talk about the Fed printing money, which is like a band aid at best. But how how does one even contemplate some of these major social problems like you're talking about or or and we won't talk with the water but the social problems like homelessness how do you even contemplate? Addressing that, where do you have a whole bunch of people who have been under served by society and for one reason or the other mental illness just laziness and everything in between have sorta opted out and are now camped around the capital how does the city Denver six months from now address that and make people more productive as members of society and and how do we get a better place that one is the one I just can't get my head around. Make them work to eat. If they're gonNA move them all to the coliseum like I've heard rumored. That's fine. But then put them out there. Give them constructive jobs. So they feel good about themselves. and. That's I'm a petroleum engineer I'm not a social engineer and I really. I know how to take care of my own. But I don't know how to take care. I I mean I've indicated to you where I. Where my charity is. My charities fixing environment so Ten generations from now, they can benefit from it. Because it'll be what it was. When it was healthy and I'm not trying to take it back to. You know before the White Man came to America I'm trying to take it back to when I remember as a kid. You can't fix you know too many. The too many of the folks today. One a judge everything from today and I'll try and give you a quote. He. Who Only knows his generation? Remains a child. and. Were confronted with that today. I mean. They. Need some electrons to stimulate them. I need a stream to walk into stimulate me. or I need to go to my pond out background, need to listen to the wind in the trees to stimulate me. I don't need I. Don't really. Watch TV. Because it depresses me. Presses phase to up depressed I want to look at the bright side of everything. And as I mentioned to you. When you're down on the rug you don't have far to fall so. Go after your dream whatever it is whether it's Doing podcasts or buying oil and gas properties. Ormeau, in somebody's yard, I mean I go to Vail now and I see a whole bunch. Of what you would never have seen a few months ago guys mowing lawns. And We're we're really missing it. Is. There's no jobs. We're not kicking our kids out when in high school to get A. Job. Chad had an area should business in the eighth grade he bought Somebody's book and he did any caddie. So we had two jobs. Our daughter when she was in medical school went down to same Croton. It was A. Saint Croix. Saint Kitts. Worked in taking out monkey's brains for another doctor I mean. Now that had some opportunity because she was. At Darpa Yeah but. My Dad used to say, and you probably won't. Use this on your podcast but learn how to shovel shit with a spoon you have to. And these people need to learn that if they want to eat. They need to put him a day's work for and. That's easy for me to say, and I'm sure you every liberal out there would find. All these things bad about that. But if you're a mother and you got a child. And you've got to feed the baby, then get out and do something to feed the baby. Yeah, it is interesting that I it does seem to divide in terms of lines of of politics Republican versus liberal. But everything you're saying is as as you said, common sense and it's just not. So comet. Now we talked about your hobby and I wanted to talk about the painting. So I don't know you can I just over Bud's head, you can see painting on the wall and You painted it. Obviously, what year did you painted in? What is that one in particular tires story there to love it when I Turned seventy hours, roundup writer and my old horse die. Twenty six years old. And so. I was looking for a new horse so I could continue because I love to go up up at the ranch and gather. In a feel like a cowboy in real west and it's a lot of fun. So, I was trying out different horses and. One January day and I should have been aware because the guy that was selling was from the stop show. And I took this little Philly I'd seen her and she beautiful little three year old. and. I like to hunt. So I liked the hunt on horseback with my dog my dog finds the birds, points it I. Get off the Horse and shoot. And So I took her out on a windy January day out of the bluffs, which is out near Byers Colorado. When was blowing? Calmed her down after shooting the trailer and I took her out for maybe forty minutes and put her through everything I thought you could put her through. I was turning her around to buy her. And I don't know what happened. She got a Burr upper under saddle or something she started crow hopping. I. Think I lasted eight seconds but lost stirrup. And she started to go. How they get towards the trees and I've lost two friends that way. So I decided to bail. Well. Being, no. Parachute. I knew how to do a p. l. f. which is where you sort of land on your side. I'd had rotator cuff surgery on my right side before is trying to protect my shoulder. And you doing all this at an instant and I landed on my ribs and broke all my rib's on my right side. So. You know. It's an effort to do anything with a few ribs broken. It's really tough with all the ribs and they thought as a real candidate because I've seventy. Should. Should have made it through it. Or we went we had a trip scheduled. For. The South Pacific Tahiti. And that was five weeks after I broke my ribs. But an airplane chair was the most comfortable for me. I tried it out before. So we flew to the hedy. And everybody's out having a ball and I'm stuck in a room and. You get tired of reading. You get tired of you know we didn't have television there or relieve in good Wifi. There was a picture on the wall and I got a pencil when I start sketching. That's a seventy. And since that, this is a picture I did. Let's see. We took our granddaughter to Africa. And that's a sunset in Africa. And I take I, take a picture of something I've got a couple more in a house and I actually entered art showed this last year down in Florida. And you took it up at seventy, took it up to seventy never opposite engineer. I couldn't draw our color anything. And it just. I. Continually, go under. Chemo embolism. For recurring liver cancer and kidney cancer keep rearing their head. And I get a down time after that and. During. The fall and when things quiet down a little bit. Then I'll take them up again I've got I'll show you some other in the other room that I've done. But I never knew. This is this is one. Of An Eagle. One of my early ones. There's another one over you know I it just doodling. It's just having a I. have to keep my hands busy. You can tell. Trying. Not to be physically here but it's hard. It's taken me sixty episodes to learn how to keep my my hands to myself so that I don't bank I'm curious. I, mean you've done you've done everything and do you have any regrets? You know I go to Bible Study and I listened to a lot. We got maybe forty men and our Bible study and everybody's got. Got An event. that. They either regretted or was tough to live through. and. As I indicated earlier. I'm not very intelligent. So I don't even remember. The. Bad Events. I I. Regret Nothing. I've been faithful hardworking and husband provided wealth from my family and when the time comes I. Don't want to be premature but when it comes I'm going to say I, walk the good life and Really. Don't think I stepped on anybody maybe did but you don't know it. And being. In charge of acquisitions for Petra Lewis, and really building my career around buying things. My mind always worked find out what the other guy of wants and needs. and. If you can provide it, you can make a deal if you can't provide it just say thank you and go the next. He'll. There's lots of deals. and. So It's good to listen. Good understand because a lot of times they say things don't really mean him. But along the way. And I've done business with. Some. Very well-known people in the country not just oil. and. Always, been able to get the stock. Now it's tough in this environment when the bankers say, I've loan this. So that's where it's worth. It's worth Y X. And but we'll. We'll you know this is a good time. To be looking for opportunity. And I'll cite and example and even name the name. I knew Harold Hamm. When Harold Hamm had a high school education was driving a water hauling truck. And if I call Herald today, he'll answer the phone. And Harold Continental Resources at one time was purported to be. The man in America it's not that way now been through a lot of different things but. Herald knew more about the subject. than any of his competitors when he was gathering water, he knew which wells. Capable of more and if he could buy them at salvage value, you do it mid tournament of money. And Tournament Opportunity. So. You don't want to give up. You WanNa go out look there's opportunity around every corner. Different opportunity than maybe you're trained in are used to, but there's opportunity. You gotta find it. It's not going to hit you in the face. And so that's I don't. You know. It was a little bit hard after I broke all ribs is a little bit hard when I found out I had cancer and then I found out. Five years later I had cancer again but I. said all right. I'm Delta Hand I'M GONNA play it. And I've been able to play it pretty good. Well, we talked about Petra Lewis and when we first started chatting like really chatting last week and you were talking about. Petro Lewis Really taught you because I think if I remember at you did Jerry Lewis. Was a mentor beyond mentors. He taught me lots of things. And Jerry was just a really really good person underneath he. Followed some advice that identity agree with at the time when they finally. I mean we sold a lot properties to take care of bank debt. There was an opportunity when we bought those properties. To own those properties. Not Moving about the partnership. Some of US tried to convince him. But the sales people always prevail and they said Oh no, we can raise a hell of a lot more money by. Showing that we've got these properties and warehousing them for more partnerships. But that that was a turn. In my opinion. That caused the demise Petra Lewis. His that would have kept those properties Petra Lewis would be. A very successful independent. Till this last price thing right. I. Mean this this last one heard everybody. Yeah and. But that's GonNa Create Opportunity. So you got to look at it. I mean. I think you were with Chad the other day when we were trying to buy a property out of from the bank, the bank. Refuses to sell at that level. They may Whoa the day they may yet. But you started. So you would you have done a whole bunch of deals, Petra Lewis, and then you'd have to sell a whole bunch and that sort of made you realize then you could do it for yourself and yeah, I had a big break I was in charge of acquisitions. Before the Early eighties rolled around and. When we went through the first price, claps. The banks got anxious we owed them a billion dollars in that mark time billion dollars worth a lot. And? We hired Solomon Brothers to help us sell it but they had an out clause with Gulf because they were also trying to sell Gulf they knew that if that was much bigger fish to fry. But they've prepared our sales brochure force which helped me out. And then when they eighty-sixth us we. I was left with the selling the properties and. By May tenth we brought eight hundred million in the door. And that. was. A big big big. What's the model they call? We had partnerships we had banks we had we had. Everything had to be meshed together. Yeah. and. So I guess. Syndicate. Well. Yeah I mean, we had limited partnerships and limited partnerships ownership in the other limited partner very complicated. Yeah. A Rubik's cube that was solvable to get the money work needed to be for the bank debt. But. Then that left investor somewhat holding the bag. And By then it was the writing was pretty well on the wall that we're going to have to get rid of. That's when I decided to leave and start my own thing but. Having. Petra Lewis behind me and sort of being in charge of that. The engineering part of that I was a pretty good hot ticket at that point new everybody tell I knew herald and a lot of the other people. And so. Before eighty, six roll around everybody was laid off. I broke her deals and one of the big deals I brokered was with some people here in town and Exxon. And When I saw everybody else getting in the business. I decided that I should be. Getting my fees. In ownership positions and then I stepped up. And made the successful bid for knee when they left the rockies. All on a whim. Didn't have I had people. I knew I could go to. But I tied the deal and then I turned it over to where the money was and. Got Me going and. We Built A. Company. Based on. Those deals and In pretty smart at times never never hit the big home run, but we did a lot of singles doubles. Fortunately have no debt going into this thing so and have have really turned. Turned to buying personal royalties mineral interest because mineral interest stay there forever. And it's turned out. Obviously. Pretty pretty well. So what what is the thing looking back on on that part of your career that you're most proud of do you have a story that just store or a time that you? You just reflect back on and say I can't believe I did that Well I guess one story. was in Alaska. When I had identified I mentioned hours the engineer on the modern pop platform cook in inlet, an identifier that There was some opportunity in a completely different zone that we were looking at. Sorry about that. Good. And I presented it to my boss. And he sat me down and said when you can go tell that to your wife and she understands which talking about come back and tell me again. As a lesson learned early on. that. You don't. In our business, you don't over sell them with too much. BS or facts that don't matter. Show me where the bottom line is show me the money show me how it's GonNa work. And so that was a big lesson. Another lesson. was when we tied up. All Conoco's production big. Eight hundred. Billion dollar. Package. And I was unable to sell the idea of tight gas changing. And so we back that down. To about a quarter of the size and now was unable to. Make that point another point was. With Jerry Lewis Dwight moorhead and Mike Street Petra Lewis, I was unable to tell them. Convinced them. We didn't want to be in the partnership business we wanted to be in the oil business. Because then we had never had that problem. Because those properties would always pay off the bank debt. And then you could have survived the low time. If. You can have the debt. You know the other big thing. In. My lesson is. Leverages to it's sort. And too many people look at it. Going up. But then you still all going down and when that's what we're faced with the seventy or eighty bankruptcies in the oil business. Everybody was borrowing money. because. Everything looks good on paper. And I'll tell you Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboy fame. When I bought his first packet of production from Iran rix. So. But I've been looking all this stuff in paper and what it's worth on paper. What will you give me a cash for? And we did the deal. Yeah. But again. Too many people outsmart themselves. And I can site some other examples, other ways where I sold told people, they were crazy. And then they went ahead. Got It done. At the level that they that I didn't think was reasonable. Now looking back I was more right than they read. So in some instances, but you go through all this and so. The lessons that I've learned are. Am I turn off the news. How many are going joy My family, my dog, my properties and I'm GonNa live out as long as I can just doing what I love to do and not worry any more than I have already and I have a hard time. With. The liberal charity mentality. because. When Lyndon Johnson. Married all the young one women to the federal government. Was the start of the demise. Of what we consider. A Republic. Because all of a sudden now, we got eighty five percent of the babies are born. With android mothers, not that there's anything wrong with mothers. It's just that. It's awfully nice to have a father involved horrified other figure. We live in interesting times and I think the thing I'll remember the most about this discussion today is, is that if you only know your own generation, you really are missing. All of all of the lessons, the goddess here, and just because you didn't live through, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen and to start. To start as a six year old with with your data Chevron and learning the oil field and then Vietnam and Colorado school mines and entire career energy. Charities. Environmental. Boy Scouts. I mean you've you've done it all you've lived at all and I feel very blessed and I hope I. Hope Everyone who listened. Why play a wicked harmonica? Every time he says southern I feel. Badly about all the decisions I make. But what a fascinating fascinating person I absolutely I'm so grateful that you spend the time in an open your home in an open, your your your mind in your heart to share these stories because I, think they're they're so interesting in there. So valuable, I learned a lot. I hope everyone did too. And Look for to the next conversation. Until next time be safe be good. Have a great day. Bye.