Episode 25 Tapestry

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

In today's episode of Board Game IMPAC Pack. Josh and I do a deep dive into tapestry by Stone Meyer Games. Welcome to board game impact. If you is your first time joining board game impact. I want to say welcome so what we seek to do. Here is to combine our love of Board Games and his hobby. That's given us so many great things as well as our passionate and background for full-time jobs. which is we both work in the field of education and we both apply licensed research lenses and like breakdown experiences for students and so we combine those shoes? That where. You're going to get the most out of this. My Name is Bruce Brown and I am of course joined by our co host. Host of this is Josh Isringhausen. Yeah so the two of us. I'm here in Texas Joshua's Josh's in Colorado and listeners. Have you listened to the last episode. We went through kind of this newer format which is actually not something new so if you've been a listener to the show for a while this is like back to our roots. This is where the show started. This is what the show started about. This is why Josh and I had a late night. Conversation the night of his wedding over a couple of drinks to you like let's get back to what we wanted to do with this which is like really talk about some games in depth. Don't get US wrong. We love also sharing what things were having and going on but we also WanNa go go deep on some games. House is GonNa work. Josh and I both picked a game. And so we've got one one game for tonight and then or today whenever you're listening to this and this is a deep dive so we're GONNA be breaking down this game into different areas going over the overview review so some stuff about the game the how to play interesting notes about the components talking about the artist talking about the designer the publisher what maybe as well as some of the table present stuff as well as even like what people are saying about this and pulling out some BG posts and stuff so this should be super meaningful. Then we'll wrap up with like our our personal closing thoughts so you won't get our personal closing thoughts until the end but we're going to lay out the picture so that way you can make up your own informed choices but then also see okay. How does that line up with both Josh and Bruce Josh would you mind doing the honours of sharing what game? We're going to do a deep dive of because this is a really controversial one but also like really exciting one right now bruce. This is a game that as as we record this as currently sitting at number three on the hotness on bg it is. I think been in the top ten tain on a hotness of BG for well since it was announced and this game is tapestry designed and by Jamie Steg Meyer of stone. Meyer Games listeners. Who have been around for a while will recognize thank Meyer and sandstone? Meyer Games as a frequent topic of discussion on this show as I speak for myself and I think bruises well Jamie is one one of my favorite designers of all times So very very excited to have a conversation about this game. It's been something something I've wanted to talk about for quite some time and it's a listeners. This is the main game. We're talking about so we may refer to some other games in this Because of course there are some comparisons and things like that or other games by this designer or artist etc.. But really just focusing in on tapestries. It should be super exciting waiting for you all and so when we do this we so when we do games we've been playing recently. We may have played that game a bunch of times right these games they do for the deep dive or games that either of us has played a bunch of times that being said some of these times it might be where only one person has really played it but the other person is essentially coming in essentially as an interviewer and looking up in doing the research on BG and asking informed questions or sharing perspectives. And then having really a discussion about unpacking that game this game though we have both played a number of times and I know I've played it at a bunch of player counts and so this is one of the things of this is a two for but it should be a lot of fun. So let's just jump right in stone. When Meier Games a description of the of the game so it says in tapestry you'll start from nothing and advance on any one of four advancement tracks science technology? The exploration and military to earn progressively Benner benefits. Make sensitive advancing in those things. Sorry Madman commentary there. You can focus on a specific track or or take a more balanced approach and you'll improve your income build your capital city leverage your asymmetric capabilities. Earn victory points engaging tapestry cards which well then tell the story of your civilization so tapestry is a that was the end of quote. The tapestry is a civilization game quote unquote Dig into that here in a minute. But is a civilization game that Jamie Sacramento says. He's been working on for the past five years and is finally coming out with it but Josh Sean. Tell me about the wind conditions for this absolutely so wing condition so at the end of the at the end of the day. This game is a little euro e- especially as it relates to your traditional civilization game your wing conditioned really is score the most points as in most euro games. You are going to score your points as you complete. You'll you'll play score them throughout the game but mainly your points will come from as you complete eras of your civilization and once every player has completed their their fifth era completed what is called your fifth income. So your first turn taking an income. Your last turn is taking an income allowing you to complete four eras of the game win. Your fourth era is completed. Your game is over and the person who has scored the best is the winner. Sure and so. Thank you for that Josh. So clarification there for the listeners. And going into the how to play you. Might You could legitimately finish this game in four turns where somebody else has a lot more turns or chooses to advance a different net to move move to the next era. Different Times you choose usually when you run out of resources when to move to your last era your next era. So how do you play on your turn. You get one. One of essentially two choices. One is advance on a track. The other one is take income. Those are your choices. Now within in the advancing unattractive that's where everything really comes out but how to play as you really just take one of two choices and if you're doing the choice anything to do with the board then you're going to spend resources if you're taking income you get resources but what you're essentially trying to do is figure out. How can you layer your actions in a way where they're gonNA synergy is and give you the things that you need need for later as well as how do you manage your resources so you can do the most with the limited resources you have? There's there's two other types of things in the game and that is your civilization card so you start the game with a number of civilization guards pick one and those are the AC metric aspects aspects. Come in each of those has their own special powers that can be wildly different Then you have this other part called tapestry cards which is is a card that you would play whenever you advance the next era or based on some other card interaction of the game and so with that those things can vary vary wildly in what they do from Nice little bonuses for doing things or a one time bonus or ongoing effect etc or some extra actions you actually have to take which is really cool. So there's a lot of variability in terms of the civilizations and how they'll interact Iraq with all the cards but in the end remember how to play is really you make one of two choices. That's really where it is. So yeah so josh. Why don't you talk do us about how this is like you and I both did? Air quotes about when we said civilization game. Sure so this game and we'll get into a little bit more about the reception of the game as a whole later on but let this game had a lot of people scratching their heads when it first came out and that was because Jamie Steg Meyer did a really really good job of marketing this any marketed. It as a civilization game. I think that was probably probably in error. I think that this is a civilization influence game just real quick. What do you mean when someone says civilization game was I mean to you so a civilization game in my mind is related to the game I I think the epitome of a civilization game on my mind is Sydney mirrors civilization on the computer civilisation? You are as in this game advancing through military technology culture. You know exploration Largely with the wind conditions though of being military you conquer the world the culture you win over everyone else's You you surpass everyone one so far culturally that they all just by in this game. You don't really do any of those things You you advance on all of those tracks which are tied to your traditional wind conditions in civilization game. Your you are researching researching technology You are advancing your civilization on their presence on the board you. Aw are Trying to influence other people to your kind of whims but none of those are your wind conditions. Those are just ways in which you score points And at the end of the day this is really more of a euro game than what what I would consider a civilization game It has that theme of civilization But that is not the the core mechanic of the game. It is very very and I think you kind of talked about this a little bit and gave it a very good work. It is very abstracted. Extracted Your idea of military. You talked about toppling. Other people's outposts You're military advancement is placing. These little tokens that are outposts onto the board and whenever you fight another player you don't really fight you. Just knock doc peace over and you put your piece down and they can't retaliate against you with the exception of playing a trap trump card But that's you know medium In terms of actual interaction No one else can come in and knock you off of that space. Only two people or two ponds can occupy a space at any given point in time time so it it doesn't really have a lot of the feel of a civilization tation game outside of the FEM- now I don't consider that a knock on the game. There are certainly people who do I think think it was probably incorrectly marketed. I think there was a a disconnect between the marketing strategy for this game and the actuality of the game I don't think this selling this as a civilization game was the best choice that Stone Meyer Games has ever made but I wouldn't I wouldn't consider this civilization game as much as I would the euro game with a civilization theme. Yeah I think that's all said and I agree with you that the wording might not be the the most accurate more like honestly civilization building or and. I'm not even coming up with the right thing here. But because it is that abstracted but it is like light and soft around the edges and super approachable for people within the track themselves. So when you think when I think of a civilization in game I also think of yeah building things in my city and you get to do that. There's actually the sweet thing if you're the first person to go into the next age of a one of those tech track not tetris but the different pieces so that exploration or science etc you get these really sweet hypoplastic a plastic rubber things that are fully painted that you get to build into your little capital city and yes we're GonNa talk more about the components and minute but you got to to have these things and you're literally building a little city bear also like exploring this board but for me I think for it to be a sieve game. The fact act the victory conditions have nothing to do with how my civilization did on any of those tracks speaks volumes to me so if I make get to space and that's not a finishing thing if I am super advanced in terms of my technology or by our science or warfare and we've quote unquote conquered the board. But you can't really do. I think that would do it for me. I honestly think for this game for the civilization aspect. You're just kind of building it but you never arrive at it just to put it out there so when you're doing these different things so on the military track act there's a spot where it's like. Oh you have tanks and so. That's just what that militaristic thing of toppling. Somebody overs called where later that might be called you. You have drones and you can do a drone strike which is just toppling the other thing over so they have all these terms on top of them however they have nothing really to do with the action They just exist. But if it were an actual civilization civilization game like I would actually build tanks I would. We build drones for my drone Air Force Base etc.. So super abstracted like those things are there but there there. I don't know I don't know that I would miss them if they weren't there now. I wouldn't just be called anything else that has to do with a warfare S. thing or whatever the thing relates to and I completely get it Yeah Yeah I would I would say you know probably one of the Challenges to the I guess a barrier to this game and it's it is honestly one of the reasons why and I'll just come out and say this listeners. I think is fantastic game design. I really really love this game. Despite all of the things that we are saying right right now that may sound negative. I think this is a phenomenal game. I just think that the marketing was not what it should have been and I want. Yeah and I just WanNa it just echo and then I want you to think I echo that I think it's a really good game. I just don't want you to think it's something that it's not and so we're trying to initially do our PSA before going into everything else yes one hundred percent. I think that we are trying. This is in part correcting acting. The era that was made in the marketing of what this game was going to be which this game was sold to a lot of people as a civilization civilization game that could be played in under two hours with a four page rulebook. And if I'm being perfectly honest I don't think that is possible. Yeah I don't think you can really capture the essence of what a civilization civilization game is with a four page rulebook Civilization Games are designed to be intricate and detailed old and complex. And all of these things that building civilization are and and you can't boil that down to a four page rulebook. Yeah I agree I appreciate what they tried to do. And I'm going to put out the challenge of like if you could design one go. Oh for great Please do take stab. But it's almost like we were talking in the last episode. Go listen to that listeners. And we were talking about your experience with Lisboa and like of Atala Serta game where it has that like meaty crunchy and there's a lot going on. That's what I associate with civilization. It's going to take up a lot brainpower because guess what I'm running country right but let's dig in some other things so the art on this is great. It's pretty much beautiful full. I love the colors. They did with it. Josh you brought up a great point about the artist that I think you should share absolutely. You're you're you're one hundred percent correct I think the art on this is just phenomenal And the artist on this game started to me two seconds. It is Andrew Bosley With Ron Brown Sculpted some minis. We'll talk about those here in a second but the actual artwork art work That is on your player boards on the you know the world map and on your civilization cards all of that. That is all done by Andrew. Bosley and Andrew Bosley is known most for his work with ever dealt which which is a really really phenomenal game? One that I absolutely love. I just backed the expansions on kickstarter and and really really I love that game Ever Dell has some phenomenal artwork and tapestry. He did not disappoint here as well. something thing. I thought found very interesting. Though is that there is also a little bit of a mechanical similarity between ever Dell and tapestry in that in ever del you moved through seasons and not everyone season ends at the same time. And not everyone waits for you. Don't wait for everyone to catch up to you Just like in tapestry. Not everyone's era ins at the same time time some people and you can think about this in real world. Context of not every civilization reached the bronze era at the same time not every civilization reached the iron era at the same time that didn't stop the progression of other civilizations and it just you're moving on to another kind of era in time And so that I you think the beam and the mechanics really did link well together It is certainly borrowed from another game. And something interesting that I find tapestry. Is that a lot of mechanics are borrowed from other games and put into this really unique game system that utilizes a lot of different mechanics that make for such an interesting gameplay in play But as Bruce mentioned the artwork in this is is just fantastic. Yeah so just brought up a good point about those mechanics before moving on to more of the art stuff and components. I think I need to Lena Noise at and that is I think that when you look at tapestry it actually it weaves together a bunch of different types of mechanics and elegant fashion without a doubt. I I feel like tapestry. Absolutely does that weaves them into this nice tapestry of things that are going on and I don't know if that's also what he was alluding to with that besides just the cards but I think that is absolutely there and I think I did not want to miss that because that was very well said so Kudos on that so the table presence with this. We've already talked a lot about the art A little bit about the art. So there's also like different animations on some of the cards that are all really great these civilization cards. y'All the art on them is is like phenomenal. I sometimes feel that I am actually looking at what would look like at the start of that civilization or would I can picture picture for that. So the futurists science person looking off into the distance with rockets going off behind them the military militaristic one is where they're like on it writing tank. The the mystics are like looking over this cauldron type thing the there's another one where like gallivanting in a forest and it's like that make accents or the entertainers or more like a Geisha style. So it's thought that was really cool. this thing will super pop at your game night. It'll take up like the entire table in order to fit everything on. We could not just have it where it was like parallel to us. We had to have it at an angle so three till the tilted the board so as a forty five degree angle to us so that way we could fit in our player boards awards. Because you're going to have your player board you're going to have your civilization cards next and then you're going to have your capital city to the right of that so so you're gonNA take up a lot of real estate because you're also going to put cards around that but on top of that I talked before about the different types of buildings you can get and you actually have have little rubber or plastic miniatures. That are different colors for each of those. You've got a bunch of already on your player board and you're going to be moving them hopefully to your capital city and then you've got these phenomenally gorgeous little miniatures that are fully painted. There's three for one three for each of the tracks and then a whole bunch of them may like seven or so that are tied to specific perfect technology. Cards for if you're able to level up your technology to certain levels you get access to those buildings and you're the only one that could build that building the components in this or like out of the park. Honestly that's part of why this game does come with a sort of hefty price tag I believe the MS Sarpi is one hundred dollars and then if you were to preorder this game through Stone Myers website which is which was the first like ten thousand copies which sold out out in like six hours. I want to say they were selling them at twenty percent off so you got them for eighty but like this thing will absolutely stand out at your Game Day. It doesn't really take up a lot to set it up though which is great because usually when there's a lot of components takes forever to set stuff up you can fit it all back in the box locks really easy but also set it up real fast so yeah yeah and I just WanNa get a quick word here on those miniaturist I. I think they're gorgeous. I think they're fantastic. They're very very well done I mentioned the the there are two artists on this game. Andrew Bosley did the actual art but those miniatures were designed by a I wanNA say New Zealand Artists Rahm Bronze Brown and so I just wanted to give credit where credit is due because those miniatures really are a key component to this game and we talked a little little bit about how. There's a lot of borrowing from other game designers and game mechanics Bruce talked a little bit about your city board word being this kind of Tetris area. Where you're building these buildings which very much in and Jamie stag Meyer talks about at this extensively that that is directly from a Feast Borodin A A game that we've talked about in the past I believe At as an influence end something that he really wanted to incorporate in a game in saw this idea for this tatra seeing of a civilization city trying to stay within the confines of the geography in which that city is being built built As as a very big motivation for this Bruce I also wanted to jump back briefly to You mentioned the the idea behind the game. I think it is interesting that you talked about this being a tapestry of of mechanics mechanics But but one of the things that was interesting about the launch of this game was Jamie's design diary as he called it which was a regular posting on his social media as well as on the website about kind of what this game was which led to a lot of hype and and and I think we'll come to talking about that shortly but He mentioned why tapestry is the name of this game and he talked about the influence of of Going to an museum and seeing these gorgeous tapestries like actual tapestries depicting the history. Three of these families and houses in the Medieval era And so he wanted to incorporate that idea of telling a story through artwork into this game design of explaining and showing knowing how your civilization expanded over the course of time through the taps Ricard's through these visual Israel representations of the type of civilization. You would utilize and I thought that was a really really elegant way to incorporate operate personal passion with game design. I love that and honestly I mean Jamie's really great about connecting with the listeners. He does Weekly livestream at ten. Am Central Standard Time every single week and so it doesn't surprise me that he shared some personal things because he even sharing about like his dating life right now and like having serious relationship while running a game company. But I think that's beautiful where that inspiration comes from. 'cause I remember growing up in New York and going down onto different museums and things like that and now that stood out with me but I didn't realize that about this. I missed that designer. Thanks for sharing that. I think that's really cool. Yeah absolutely so something important to bring up though is like what it brought out in other players myself and then we'll get into into some of that hype staff and other things of note before we go into what some other people are saying So what brought out in some others is like this sense of. I like when they're first learning it like. Oh there's all these symbols and stuff because it gets rid of tax does a four page rulebook and really focuses says in on using these symbols to explain what the thing is right. It's not text based it's Symbo based and there's not a lot of symbols but you have to learn it and then once you learn it like your golden and it's not that much honestly is really not but how the flow of the game works is a new thing and some new mechanics if you've never played l.. Then then you're not going to be potentially used to this whole thing of oh I could be in this age while you're in a different era right. I can be in this era while you're in a different era or or I'm finishing and you still have ten more turns that happened. Sometimes I was is the person with more turns than the other person or I was the first person advancing into a different era. which gets you actually more resources for being the first one and it's not just like oh you're there I you have less of a game? No you actually get extra resources for getting in their first but when it brought out for me though is I did feel with the military like I wanted to be able to fight back and so I couldn't always couldn't usually do that. I never personally ever drew. Its trump card in any of my plays. I don't know how that's happened. I've never gotten a trap APP card period but that's just luck of the draw so there's also to with when you have that many cards and and so with this. I feel that I have done the each time I've played. I feel like I've made good choices. I've been proud of the board. I made that I made And like confident what I did. And sometimes I was left scratching my head of like I don't know how you are still so going going And I'm trying. I was a game that had me thinking of like. How could I have done that better? And sometimes draw blanks and sometimes like Oh. I could have leaned in on these parts. It's definitely had me thinking about it. Of what could I have improved but also feeling proud of what I did accomplish if that makes sense absolutely You know something. I think that is very interesting about this game. Something that I've seen is the you know I I played this most recently Just a couple of days ago and when we were playing me and one other person in their game ended pretty relatively quickly and we sat there and we were thoroughly convinced looking at the rest rested. Track that that we were going to win and by say we because we ended up scoring exactly the same points and retied on the tiebreaker. In which case you share the victory so we were thoroughly convinced we were sharing victory We actually left left the room to go grab a drink and came back five ten minutes later and found that the player who had taken the longest had surpassed us by a good twenty points. that you know. They had scored about one hundred points in one era Yep so there's some really really interesting swings in terms of points and how you score in those types of things I I think that's really neat and really interesting. You Know I. I like the fact that at no point in this game can can one person say that they are completely out of it twice now. I have played this game where someone who was way behind going into into their fourth era came back and won the game because they they were able to build the engine in a way that you know. They didn't score a lot of points early on but they were setting themselves up for huge points late game and and that's a good point so but the key to that is like you can't. This is not a game where you're going to be able to plan out. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to to do this. You can. Sometimes you can have a general idea but you have to be willing and okay with doing something different. You're not going to be able to do everything deal with it. You're not going to be able to win by really advancing equally on all the tracks like it's not how you media you have to specialize but you also have to do diligence and so there's a give and take a risk and reward and so sometimes someone else is going to do something that's GonNa throw off your plans so this is not solo. Solitaire does not this game. This game does have player interaction through the actions. You're taking by them getting some benefits before for you or if they're the first one to go into an age then they're going to get that landmark. There's only one of them so too bad. And so that's just you really have to be willing to adapt and so with all of that. Kind of let's dig into some of the hype and also that that swinging certainly talked about how there was a window so stack Meyer somewhere. Games did a window for four days of when they were going to do a preorder for this at the beginning of September. The game sold out in a couple hours and there was a total of ten thousand copies and so then it was this whole question of is there. More Games are going to be up for In this window preorder window but there weren't because Jamie had allocated out he allocated ten thousand games for the preorder up to the other. The ones were already on their way to different distributors to go out to friendly local game stores and things like that or online retailers or his own sale place place and so he was in this quandary of. Oh we said we're going to have this four day window but now it's sold out. What do we do but obviously as you can imagine? Ten thousand copies selling out in a couple of hours like that is seriously some hype that led into that and then that's going to come from that video that I'm going to encourage you to watch. We have an already so Rodney Smith who is powered by Board Game Geek So He's the guy from watch played. He's a wonderful human. Get get to play games with them at conventions and stuff. He does a lot of great things for the hobby. Go support him. Check him out but he made a video where he talked about hype and it was particularly about out this game and talking about hype as well as what. It means to be overpowered so he talked about this game in the height but then he also went into. It's you over powered because that is a big part of what some people say about this game and the swinging is quote unquote. That comes with this so I encourage you to go. Watch those videos over on his channel on watch it played But Yeah so real quick Burgundy grace this as a seven point six ten the weight on. BG is a two you point five out of five so medium weight. The player count is from one to five. You can do a solo with Automa- TAMASEK which used to of cards there it's interesting and then. BG says the ideal player count is three people You bring up something real quick Josh In our show notes about that player count though yes so I was just reading through our there are player counts here in our show notes. Here in Brusett mentioned are put in here is a one to six game which is an easy easy mistake to make As you look at the game board there are six starting players spots But the base game comes with I five players if you have been around board games were aware of side. Whenever it came came out you will see a little bit of pattern here with stone? Meyer Games specifically games designed by Jamie Steg Meyer himself and that is He has a tendency to design a game with an expansion in the works already I would guess that there's an expansion coming for this at some point which will add a six player which is why you have those six starting locations. He actually so in his monthly update to his subscribers on just from Sonar Games literally lists a tapestry expansion and it's progress of in development but it doesn't say what that means One quick note about the player count though so is whenever I see a game is okay with two people. I always want to make sure so for me. I don't necessarily like playing when there is a dummy player. When you have to play three three players there is a dummy player when you are playing three players this but the only thing it does is moves so they have one cube on each of those four tracks? It moves them up one spot on that track so it can take away those landmarks. That's that's but getting into over going a little long time but there's a couple things things we talk about real quick and then our final thoughts so are but my buddy Conrad you know. Conrad so Conrad Brad is getting his PhD in mathematics. and He's played this game a couple of dozen times already because they'll play it solo a bunch but one of the things. Konrad things did and talk to me about is he said okay. Well given the luck element of this game. What is the range of scores? That is possible if I were to get the most ideal hand at the right times. So he laid out all of the tapestry cards after he picked his civilization as well as all of the technology cards so obviously he broke the game to do this but he scored five hundred and fifty points so he ever at every stage where could draw card. He drew the card. He wanted to which she's technically possible. Given the random ization elements but most likely not going to happen and he was playing against the Solo player so he was playing against someone else quote unquote but he said essentially what it boils down to is. Your score is most likely if you know what you're doing you're going to get between one hundred and fifty in two hundred and fifty points if you have a good luck of the draw or know how to play them in the right order to leverage things based on other factors in the game you can then have a two hundred to three hundred point swing where you can based on this card you can get up to three hundred something or even as high as five hundred and so just knowing that based on how what card you get and how you play them you could have that kind of swing which I thought is super interesting and then like I was proud of him for doing this leaning into this kind of curious your thoughts. Because I hadn't talked to you about that no And this is This brings up two points to this game that I actually did want to point out one This is my first time playing stone. Meyer game so low every stone. Meyer game has the Automa- built into it This is the first game that I've actually played with that Automa- and I this could have been released as a solo game and I would have enjoyed it. I'm really really really like the Solo Player of this and it actually leads me towards thinking that this might be okay at two players because as you also use that shadow variant When you play solo in terms of the sweeneys I've seen a lot of Posts in the facebook group for this game about people scoring three hundred four hundred points in a game. I have yet to see anyone. Anyone break one hundred fifty and so it's interesting to me that you say that a good score is between one hundred and fifty two hundred fifty. I believe review. I look back on every game that I've played and thank Oh. There were some choices that I could have made better at different points but the idea of getting to three hundred points is mind. Boggling you would need in my opinion be very lucky looking or Berry Berry Berry good at this game and I get it. There are and I wanted to mention this very briefly. We a lot of the negative reviews towards this game have said that it is broken or unbalanced and I will again refer for listeners to Rodney Spit. Rodney Smith video on balance in a game because I think it is very poignant very very accurate and he says everything that I think I could say as it relates to balance in a game I haven't played this game enough to know whether it's balanced or not. But there are definitely civilizations that are easier. Yes Dan other. Yes yes yes. Yes there are civilizations and the last time I played this I was playing with some new people and so there were seven civilizations that I just took them out. I didn't make them options for players to even potentially look at or choose because I knew that those civilizations are not going to be good for a first time player and I just played with the most simple basic civilizations wins that I could find And everyone ended that game within twenty points of one another because everyone was at a relatively equal playing ground in terms of their experience with the game and the civilizations that they were dealt So yeah yeah I I just wanted to kind of point that is that the piece to this game and so on that note so in Ronnie Rodney's video and again I'm highly recommend I'm going to put that in the show notes so just click in the podcast APP and you can go watch the video the balance so Rodney taught this game. I think something like twelve times. Twelve different groups of people on the cruise and he analyzes what that was is like and what people's perceptions of things were in the game but then also talks about the fact of how some people talk about terror forming Mars and so depend like there's one player talks like Oh when we play. We really don't do stuff on Mars. We really focus on her engines. And then we get to Mars later and do that stuff or there's other it's like the same player then went to another group and it was like Whoa. WHOA WHOA? You're all going really fast. Try and Connell. Colonize Mars entire forming Mars. And that's not how my group usually plays so depending on how your group usually plays can factor a lot into this and just point that out so I think it's GonNa be really good. Just let's pull in some quick not go through all of them some quick notes from some BG posts that we saw so this one is from Meco whose m sorry M. S. A.. Our eye on. BG that this game is unfairly wrong long with five players. I would advise against playing the game of five players especially your first time if if you do expect the game to take three or more hours. If you really want to do that I agree with this. I would really recommend playing this game three or four players. Personally yeah I I will say I. Yeah I don't think three hours is an unreasonably ably longtime to play a game agreed personally But there are people who certainly do think that way but I do think that this game is not a game that is worth worth playing The enjoyment dies out when you're playing for close to three hours I disagree with BG BG's says three players is the ideal I think four is the ideal view. The open board It gives you the opportunity to do more expansion so I like the four player count better than the three. That's just me personally. I would agree. I don't think five players is the proper count for this especially your first time. And then if that's more your thing for your game group go for it but like four players words out for me too so then we've got a Koala Guy Four forty five sixty six as Sean He goes he writes D.. Have a worthless happens regard in my hand. Find a way to get a better one. Did you draw another bad tapestry. Guard find a way to get another one. Do you have a handful of tapestry guards. Well then you better make sure the military track of the science tracker priority so you can discard them for points before the game ends. Change your the plans buddy. That's his words echoed one hundred percent Most of the complaints I've seen about this game are are related to the tapestry cards or the civilization cars in. IRA talked about how to mitigate that But the temperature cards there are ways to get new tapestry cards. There are ways to and and realistically there are no bad tapestry. Cards they're just tapestry cards. That are bad for your specific situation. Correct find yourself a new one or you know change your strategy to accommodate the tapestry card that you have you know I had a i. I was just playing with a somebody who who did that. They they had a handful of tapestry. Cards thought all of them were terrible. And then in the last round because of the tapestry card they played they were able to score over a hundred points. Wow Oh wow because they the situation there and processed. How can I adapt to the situation situation? I'm put in and I think that's where the theme in this game strives no civilization succeeds through stagnation. Yeah but you have to adapt and that is what this game. I think. Challenge Challenges you to do is change your plans adapt to the situation. You're in Yep and honestly there's life I'm just going to call that the last one we have from. BG So we got Pixel Missile Crow. Crow says it's a pretty light game and if you're looking for a brain bender like guy a project or black angel Then keep looking but that lightness means is going to be easy to understand and easy to play. Quick it's not gonNA start a fire in your board game and group like side did for our group but we like it just fine fine. Yeah I I I somewhat agree somewhat disagree I I somewhat agree in that. It is not guy a project it is not black angel ex not a heavy euro game the complexity. Here you're you're talking about middling I actually think BG Raith this overly complex it's a four page rulebook. There's not that much to know. The complexity comes from the decisions that you make. The complexity comes from being able to adapt APD your strategy mid game because of the situation you find yourself in that is what makes this game. I think a little bit more more interesting a little bit more fun It's not the best designed game in the world. It is not side I think personally for me is one of the best designed games ever. It's not but it is a good game. It is easy easy to teach. I think on average it takes me ten minutes fifteen tops to teach this game an hour and a half to two hours to play in an and it it fits that knee Shberi. Well it is a midland mid weight mid length game that I think is pretty good and has some really great interesting decisions to make and I actually think one hundred right in terms of the rating might be low but I think they're accounting for that complexity of layering of the cards within that rating But also like something about this. I didn't necessarily cover was so although yes you're playing against other players. They're not going to take away your actions except for takeaway landmarks. So you're constantly engaged in trying to figure out out your plans and you got the ability that But I also think and touching on your point and I couldn't agree more like this. These are different games like guy. Projects is a different game from from black angel etc.. We've you like guy a project you might not like black angel because they're different games and so same thing goes within this and other games so it by itself is really trying what we're trying to go with but did want to just bring this one up since it was there So this all being said Josh. It's time for wants to go into our final thoughts closing thoughts here. I I I like this game a lot it is is pretty consistently in my game bag. It is right now. Really the only game that is making it to my solo table uh-huh there I could go onto a tangent about my solo games but this episode about that sure Tom This is a good game and it is a game that I. I don't know that I've had a rate experience playing bass off of the people I've played with and I'm trying not to discount the game for that but the reason why. Hey I like this game is because every time I've played I leave the table and find myself three Eh for five days later still thinking about that game still processing. What did I do that? I could have done better. How how could I have fixed this problem for myself? Could I have adapted in a better way and that I think is why I like this game is I have not left the table thinking I got screwed because of luck I've left the table thinking my luck wasn't great but I could have adapted better. I could have done better and so how do I improved for the future is this. Do I think this game deserves to be at the top of anyone's He's twenty nineteen game of the years. No Wingspan is by the same publisher. Wingspan Tops Twenty nineteen game of the year. It's phenomenal this isn't that but it's good. It's interesting and I think he gets. It gets a lot more flack than it deserves. Because of some of the things we talked about in terms of the marketing in terms of the swing swing is in terms of the people not wanting to adapt to a given situation. So that's really well said To talk on some things that you didn't talk on but also not just have our listeners here to the same thing again so for me. Is this the game I own own. No is this game I will plan to buy no. Is this a game that will also context other people people in my game group who I play games with all the time. have it in like Josh. Are Keeping it in the game bags and bringing it out so I don't have a need to go by but I also don't feel feel a need to have to own it myself because I know I'm going to be able to play it if I really want to. But at the same time I'm not gonNA turn down an opportunity to play it when and somebody asked like. Hey let's play tapestry going to yeah absolutely do that now. As far as the game goes at the end of that have I been thinking. Well I got screwed screwed because I didn't get such a card or things like that. No same way as Josh like. That's not what I'm thinking what I'm thinking in those moments and I've sat there and said head and like processed is what could I have done. I WanNa understand what choices you made better so I can be better moving coming forward and I actually sat at the table because I finished and somebody else had like four more turns and so the rest of us kind of talk through. What kind of choices choices did they make leading to this point? And how were they able to do those things and so really. It comes down to being able to take in information and adapt on the fly but also plan your stuff out manager resources but also like this is a game and this is the thing for me I table presents does have an impact for me and theme coming out. There's not much theme but being able to have my little capital city and be proud of the little thing I built is really cool to me. and I'll like having thing that sense of accomplishment or being able to take a photo and things like that and so if you like that kind of thing you definitely should probably try and play this that all being said if if you are interested in buying this absolutely one hundred percent do not overpay for this game do not pay for anything but MS RPM or or less just in case you're getting it from somebody else. This game is currently out of print. There's another print coming. So just wait and you'll get it because I still see the similar to wingspan. When that came out people overpaying even to buy used copies of this game paying more than Ms Rpm? Don't do that you you do not need to do that. Get yourself brand spanking new copy. y'All be fine. Just just give it give it a little bit. I'm going Stone Myers website you you can pre-order it as well. Just go on there do that. I just hate when Some people in her hobby are just unknown. Just like Oh it's out of print so I have to overpay. It's like unannounced like you're going to be able to like don't worry just yeah you'll be fine and just a quick note on here if you are interested you know as record this The reprinting is will be released and actually it's not even the reprinting technically this is the official printing. Yeah everything that we have up to now is the preorder The official release of this game is November fifteenth. You're sure is right around the corner do not overpay for a game that will be released in a couple of days. Just were is probably already on the shelves. Yeah Yeah Yeah just give it give it some time. I go into percent. Good Call Josh. So yes so. Do I enjoy tapestry. Yes I do I had meaningful meaningful choices. It made some really fun exchanges with my friends. So yeah is it a civilization game. No doesn't need to be a civilization game. No it doesn't it just needs to be tapestry and just thinking got all this blowback is honestly I really think from like you said It's not a civilization game. It's a sieve theme to game and so from that if that interests you at all go check it out a lot of people have it of go. Check that all out but any kind of closing thoughts besides the game just for our listeners. Josh No You know I think we've pretty much hit everything everything here. It's it's an interesting game it's worth playing if not purchasing. I think Bruce was right on that. Is that if you can find someone someone to play it and in most that I would recommend this in most games I think one of my biggest regrets and a lot of games that I don't enjoy is that I purchase them without trying them. Try Game and find out how much you like it before you go and spend a bunch of money on it same thing with tapestry check it out if it sounds like something that might interest you. I really enjoy it and yeah you know the point of this game. This hobby is to have fun and find the things that you enjoy and challenge yourself to enjoy new things but but don't overspend on something that just because of everyone else enjoying it or everyone else liking. Find the things things that you like and and pay what you think they're worth and hopefully that will have a positive impact on your life. That was beautifully stated Josh. So with all that. We're going to bring this episode to a close. We hope that you like this kind of new format of having an episode directed just towards a single game. Actually it's an old model that we're finally bringing back but thank you so much for listening to board game impact again if this is your first time listening Zinger. If you haven't done this ready make sure it hit that. Subscribe Button so that way. You can hear more often about the game experiences that we're having and so that we can help you make unique an awesome impact packs and positive impact on your gaming group yourselves if you have any questions or if you want to like submit something for us to talk about or if you have some comments or things that you see 'em bg or else wise. Please email them to us at board game. IMPACT DOT com. Please make sure to tell a friend about more game impacts we can continue to grow that being said while you're over were there to subscribe. Please do to leave a comment because we I do read through all those comments as it really does help out the show and thank you so much to all those who have already done that But honestly with all of this just go out there make fun choices. Go out have fun. But most importantly also have a positive impact on

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