When Our Stories Move the Culture


Hi Elise Linen here co host with Gwyneth of the podcast today I'm talking to a true begin kindness as I like to call her her name is Catt Sadler she's the next guest and our special series that were hosting in partnership with Banana Republic called Women on top you know it's like all of that I think took more of a toll than I realized until I left okay twist to see it all and to shop Banana Republics Ball collection had two banana republic dot com slash goop culture changers creatives founders and CEOS scientists doctors healers and seekers here to start conversations because simply asking full stop believing that somebody's got your back or Super Men's coming we turn to ourselves and that's where you become empowered courageous all right over to a lease Catt Sadler is an award winning journalist mother and champion of wage equality she also has her own podcast tissot patient attracts positive things I'm GonNa Paltrow this is the Goop podcast bringing together thought leaders surplus clothing and the rest is history when we talked to the team at Banana Republic about partnering up on a special podcast series their vision revolved around the I mean let it go the Mayo soul is like it's unbound it's limitless but we will use words to limit ourselves when p started goop it's also the space which Banana Republic was founded back in nineteen seventy eight when to California creatives with adventure spirits began up cycling military questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world today is no exception I'll let a lease fill you in on her extraordinary guest actually really like watching E. 'cause I liked you shush now you've like you brought a certain kindness room boss how she takes care of herself and manages the inevitable anxiety that creeps up and we talk about how important it is for us women to build a community for ourselves and it's her from her former work on e. a career she chose to leave because of a wage gap issue today we're talking about her courage when she decided to depart and how she became don't hold anything tightly just wish for want it let it come from the intention of real truth for you act as much as possible I did not realize how tired I was I did not know I was so used to just getting up and going and the light goes on and idea living a life no boundaries this is the inspiration behind their clothing today it drives how they source premium materials from around the world the ways they choose to end AK- which I was honored to be on a couple of weeks ago cat is a dynamic personality and pretty much lights up any room she walks into I'm a big fan you might recognize chew spokesperson around the gender wage gap she shares her fears were how she overcame them and just how she's been doing since we talk about what it meant for cat to them become or maybe all of the most interesting businesses were born out of curiosity a desire to explore to ask questions and cherry answers this is the space that Gwyneth was in when she to celebrity reporting that made it feel not so naughty to watch such an interesting assessment eight with designs and how they think about infusing style with substance this is all underplay in their fall collection which combines iconic banana republic styles with the monitor somewhat struggled with this idea that oh my gosh I'm not changing the world I'm just doing entertainment news and I'm reporting on all the happening get to my chat with Catt Sadler I was talking about you earlier today you were yet to the mark that you were coming and like you know I used mom could put it in two words thank you I take that as a huge compliment thank you it's so funny that you say that because I think I always you know even though I'm sure you're like why am I standing on this red carpet I WANNA die but definitely red carpets those are hard yeah there are a lot of amazing things and one of the things that kind of fueled me every day is just like you just don't know I just I would like try to like Basque myself in a certain in the kind of impetus for just getting up doing what I did sometimes yeah no and it felt you have your very curious person and I think that that you telegraphed that things about that job and being an entertainment journalist but you lose all your dignity the people who are so tired of being harassed right yes and no I mean I think yes sometimes that was the assignment light and just be a good energy and then I'd randomly from someone halfway across the world getting e unlike Switzerland that would just be like you made a difference in my day doc down at New York fashion week on the catwalk like with people trying to mob Kylie Jenner and who could stick the microphone in somebody's face somehow I I managed to circumvent that a little bit more of that when I was in local news out of very like much lower level girl is accused of murdering her baby or something horrific and then I'd have to go knock on the door of her family and like try to get a soundbite like that was willing and through divorce through anything and everything I was going through you have to discontinue ha you know and if you look good and and you have to be willing for people to tell you look like shed and then the well when I was covering general assignment stuff because that was like romantic yeah it was like you know this girl is like the sixteen year old having equal pay for more work it wasn't even equal work it's funny point that out it I still feel a certain Mike guilt about like pointing stuff out like that I and it's yeah yeah I that I can imagine having to ask and having to harass and ask and really pretty much in studio the majority of the time I didn't have to do too much in people's faces of that style's a feel like who you are sort of a beacon of kindness and so i WanNa really nice thing to say are and I have my in December of two thousand seventeen wow so yeah yeah and it was like a month before yes so he met when you were sort of you'd knew that you are not horrifying and then but by the time you know you're on national TV that the beauty is that because I was hosting a show called the daily ten first and then it had like this brightness to you and you don't know what but thank you and I'd be like what really young so is as weird as that seems that sometimes that was my contract and I'm so proud of you for not thank you I really awesome no regrets let me tell you and you and Gwen older in that they might agree no but I I we met I don't know maybe eighteen months ago when did you leave e I loved I wouldn't have sought the support encouragement or just the ears of people that I looked up to mentors of mine and so you know what got me in that room with you girls so nice because I was really at this point where I was not desperate but I think sometimes really like a certain curry some of finger and walked out were you what was what were your immediate sensations like then and days and weeks later that is actually true especially within that last year I was doing an interview the other day and the people like yeah you work the same hours you were there the same amount of time in the back of my head and sisterhood moments were it was very comforting oh well it was lovely to me you and it's been nice to see you in the modern sense and I sort of feel like well the my very last day and mind you this was twelve years after being there so it is funny because I remember I seen people come and go all those years on air p person so and I know you love your co worker so but now I think yeah I guess it was a month before and you're debating whether you were going to take it and sign partner while you're in bed with someone else there are no rewards for that there are no reward you're wasting your time you just Kinda clog up I couldn't threaten them that well if you don't pay me I'm GonNa go tell the world you know it was a very like sensitive issue so my last day I told the the disparity and the unfairness and it was also almost a slightly litigious thing where I couldn't like blackmail them a war I'm just kidding but it's slightly abusive clearly and it can be so it's so hard I mean I I I never would have kept cruising and being that girl that I'm good at my job I think and work hard and keep my head down but I was so frustrated one of those big energy people were if you're like it's like the whole and this is I'm sure so not like the actual expert like Funk hsi-wei like approach but it's like if you have that ages born out of just being so pissed off like I you know I used to anger was a bad emotion like we as women you know don't don't get angry and angry is just an e you know what I knew and not being able to really share that with anyone it was kind of like still this very unspoken thing even though my team and my agents articulated going on air and trying to be grateful but at the same time just so pissed off is highly emotional I remember like going to my dressing room after it was like the last couldn't say why was leaving so it was that was very difficult emotionally to know I was like knowing what I knew knowing that I was leaving for the reasons I was leaving certainly did this and I know my friends have where you're just like but I'll stay until something better comes but the reality is like no you're not going to meet your next romantic clock of me saying thanks everybody till like six o'clock us weekly or someone had said she left over a pay disparity issues so then I immediately posted to almost like when you're in a relationship and you know it's bad but it's comfortable and then you know pays your rent even though wish he'd pay my rent I've never had that Z.. Emotion and nothing comes from that but I was so angry at that point I felt so kind of taken advantage of that it spawned me into doing things and reaching out to people about how to tell my story or if I would even tell my story I wrote that on my blog but worded already leaked like somehow between like four hey I was like you know it was a really unfortunate situation but to just have even just your support in your ears it felt very much like one of those girl like girly clutter and if it's all clogged up then you're just going to be stagnant you have two free that up in order for the other things to come into your life for sure yeah so when you symbolically sort of gave it goodbye after five days a week for twelve years and just kind of collapsing literally by myself closing the door and just like collapsing and just kind of crying because I was like thousands the viewers on the morning live show that I was on and then also on e. news that night you know just goodbye and thank you for watching and it's been such a great run but well actually go there at seven and he got there at eleven you know in the last year anyway but I try not to be too tired because you are a nice kind advocation for not if not matching the not least if not surpassing than matching surpassing that's really funny at least maybe but in line with what most people get incrementally year after year and I just said to them point blank it was the president of the network at the time the the person overseeing the news division as a whole to men and I just said I just got no like what is it is he doubly good yeah and I know it's it's clearly a pernicious problem and we have a major wage gap and it's hard because everyone wants to factor in bowl and I remember like you know Juliana had left at one point and my coast terrence Jenkins a left on one point and I remember always watching these goodbye farewell parties and thinking too a hard but then I had planned and I had already written my reasons for leaving on my blog and after a lot of thought ends I mean the different lenses to me it's like it's been this way it's a systematic discriminatory pervasive it is I am is he good at his job as he just what is it and they just said or just looking through a different Lens and then there reason you know it was I finally got face to face like after kind of the decision had been made and I decided to leave in is but he didn't always so it was you know excuse after maybe another excuse they brought up the fact that I had a long that they allowed me to do they were after a lot of back and forth they were at their Max of what they were GonNa pay me which in their eyes was a substantial incremental kind of not substantial whether or not they like even vert lead think of it like that that's in my eyes what was happening yeah no I mean I think that that's that seems like a fair assumption any subjective qualities like oh I he's more familiar to me because I am also like a white male sis borne until about ten days after I left so time's up wasn't even a thing when I wrote my little blog on my website so I didn't know that you've thing that happens in corporations where if you're if you're a guy and you're part of the boys club and you're out golfing it's just like he's seen as more valuable that's just how it's been because he's a dude and I was so just like fed up I was like screw it I'm emailing with you know and I had not maybe been in that position I wouldn't have said bird heterosexual dude right and these things play out and they obviously have major repercussions for women and people have called my blog I wasn't gonNA push it to the next day I was just going to give that day that day so then I put up my kind of letter to the world right then what was there just learned particularly women of color absolutely did you in that moment feel was there part of you that was just relieved like you knew you needed to go at some point and of like well you you don't need the money your families but I think obviously people are missing the wider picture that this happens at every and every of that yeah that license right so that was a tough meaning but it was just so crystal clear as like there is no within by the way the differently ear 'cause that that whole narrative in my head which was like how will it infrastructure you when I knew that it was my time to say goodbye I was like so this was remember them saying things like but he's done red carpet like a cup by the way there were how many read like award show red carpets there's three a year right or an I do those two I don't you won't even notice a really care that was honestly just for me to kind of just reconcile everything that had happened share my truth while not he was because otherwise no one held accountable and I think the more people even understand aware of the fact that the parody the pay parody it continues industry at every level we need incredibly visible women to step forward and and get into the fray as well apparent to me I got a lot of really good like universal energy really leading up to my last day so even though it was really hard for me I think I was of myself I wonder what mine is GonNa look like I'm not going to be a forever no matter what anyway but I wonder what it'll be like and the did cut to my final day Dan which I think is kind of a righteous and awkward but a righteous thing to do I know salesforce spent many many millions of dollars to feel like a universal intervention that's a wonderful question looking back yes shortly after definitely us I'm trying to decide win that became like there's you know when actresses and people like you who are highly visible speak out about this stuff sometimes people have sort of a not an aversion or there's an anger quite authoritatively that women are just as insistent about asking for raises they speak up they push and yet we are are important battle for women because it's there too many of us I think to who are like oh I'm just happy to be here and I don't really know my value and who outside of my job that had to bring me money right so like she they've more work on the side was in boy was I no transparency into compensation there are few few major companies that have the publicize all of their pay data more salary information on me looking back to never even asked the question yeah I didn't know I didn't ask although I will say in your defense that the research suggests and and points of this and the transparency pieces huge I think for sure and I mean even in a short time now since I left I first ensuring that there were no that there was no pay inequality throughout their company and raise people up and when you say righteous do you think it's like congratulatory represented and more and more women opt out for various reasons including lack of pay parody and so I think that it this was always going to be my story because I couldn't quite figure out when I leave her wide lever how will go down and how my departure would look and I and so there was a bit of an Aha because they related so much and they're like well holy shit she just she took that leap how many of us want to maybe do that totally idea and I was it Henry and Heidi test case I can't remember the names at Harvard Business School but it's a Ken Rosen and Heidi Rosen and they presented it was like a v I mean economy went like wildfire and that's when I was really like Oh boy this isn't just me obviously this is not a singular story this is so many women's stories because people cared so much alike or who would announce that this was gonna be like this but immediately I mean that's the other kind of wild thing because time's up wasn't even want it all like Oh let's just throw a network under the bus it was just like this was my story and I'm going to share this story but then see raise and half of the students got the name Heidi and half of the students got the name Henry and same pitch different job responsibilities or something very vague like the whole Internet on twitter like just rush defense I'm pretty sure as alert seven most nights it's like thirty I think or or Forbes just came out with one hundred most innovative people and business guess how many were women that it's were where so much there are you look at the fortune five hundred and they're so few CEO's that are females. I mean it's crazy happen in part because it's veiled right like the only reason they get away no is because you work in a world of agents but for most people at companies there's I don't WanNa know depressing five one oh one I mean and there's been an outrage and across the Internet and Forbes we don't are often overlooked we were that by pushing there's a there's a slam down the men's perception of being you know it's the it's like the I'll tell you a little more about that before we get to our conversation some of the most interesting businesses I came to my defense and that was really that was gratifying. She's because just in the pudding yeah they lost a viewer and me was taboo like it even on a mammy by the way there's always the onus on us as individuals also to a degree and I'm like well shame buying things at least in my situation was that because it is a public story and because I by definition Emma public figure having been on television the woman was an ego maniac and you know the part were missing is that they part because the day part I guarantee you is when when the network did kind of give their justification which was something to the effect of well she's focused on mornings and now and he's night and you know enough how can I give to you or why would I even suggest that you follow in my footsteps when this is what's waiting don't need a systemic Crete's competitiveness that's that's unfair and this sort of like tokenism are to or not only like if I don't Jordy Man Yeah Base right I don't sell the mix that's what we have to you think yes because I think part of the programming that's that's happened for women is that I'm pretty sure like I was going through my phone just recently trying to get the ten thousand videos off of my iphone and I was like Oh there wasn't night this happened I mean it's disgusting right so but this is it happens up and down but what happens I think to women as you look at the leadership of these companies and you don't see yourself same everything was a dental except for the name and the women they did not like the woman and the man they thought was assured and self confidence all and embarrassed that I still don't know that still leads scratch or at least in my personal experience that that to this day I will say I mean one of the most Grad it was just going like I didn't even at the time look but I still have those videos on my phone I was like yeah I'm pretty sure that was like I was there at seven stiller to like but the viewer issue that happened just a total overall I think transparency is probably the only way and accountability it's important that the people at the network are accountable like we're doing this the right way and they do for pr reasons or a good good I mean and like like a good like this these are I mentioned a few weeks ago on the podcast that curiosity is my favorite state of being I try to carry that attitude with me every day and it's certainly easier uh we'll get back to Catt Sadler and just a second Time you can check out google dot com slash the podcast Yeah Oh back then yeah I think I always had I you know it's it's it sounds pretty like cliche but I was that like slash in Goup help back to my chat with Catt Sadler so going and today the inspiration for their clothing designing for life in motion or as they put it living a life of possibilities with no boundaries there fall collection ordinary practitioners teachers and culture changes leading classes and workshops we'll be covering a lot of ground physically and metaphorically will learn about intimacy the power of connects an an republic to get their fall collection had two banana republic dot com slash goop. It's that time of the year again loop through our special podcast series women on top I hope you'll listen to every episode these are the women who lead with power grace and curiosity who I think define what it means freed and psychiatrists will sue who are teaching a joint workshop on manifesting your Authentic Self Wall Street legend Sally Croatia will be leading a masterclass on money curiosity their founding story starts with a California couple who was looking for an adventure fun fact Banana Republic began as a safari inspired clothing company incidentally my favorite pastime and because it's goop you can also expect B twelve shots Galore amazing food and drinks and some surprises along the way if you've been to an needs to break boundaries and maybe most importantly poor working hard so that others to can live a life of possibilities so keep listening and keep shopping with our friends Shen fasting tools for reducing stress and how to quiet our inner critics we'll be joined by some of the people I admire most like psychotherapist and psychological astrologer Jennifer cousins I was directing videos and I was you know leading the play and we're always playing make believe and then when like home video cameras came out I'm really aging myself but in the Judy White is teaching a workshop on what dreams really mean vaulter Longo is giving us his longevity secrets and you'll get bounce on mini trampoline with more in roxborough which is all town girl who always had the itch of some description I mean I wasn't here only creative I actually I was in my family with help before I hope you'll be back and if this is your first time I can't wait to meet you the summit is on Saturday November sixteen and you can get tickets now a goop dot com it's like conic banana republic styled for now so there are utility inspired styles made from premium materials think your favorite dresses and pants updated an animal prints what would that have been like the eighties and I was like a world opened up to me and I just

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