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Crisis on Infinite Earths: Parts 4 & 5


Yeah hello again. Everyone welcome come back to the Phantom Zone podcast. I wanted to co host Charles skaggs back in the phantom zone once again ready. Ready to talk are parts four and five of crisis on infinite earths the CW era verse. Crossover and I'm joined of course by my wonderful FOCO host Jesse Jackson. How're you doing? Jesse I am great Charles Ready to kind of wrap this up. It's been a the Fun Crossover that's we've been waiting for a long time and so I'm really looking forward to talking to you about it but you could not talk crisis. No just you and I know because if you remember just a few episodes ago at episode one seventy two we were joined once again by are wonderful friend from Milan. Italy Joining us all the way. Thanks to the magic of the interwebs Of course you know him from the Oh you whiskey and cigarette show and the wonderful happiness in darkness. podcast where both Jesse and I have been kind enough enough or at least nick was kind enough to invite us on there to talk comic book movies so Please welcome once again back to the Phantom Zone DJ. Nick Hey guys will thank you so much for having me back and yes indeed. I wonder if we'll be talking to you again. I believe it's the first time they guys get to talk to each other. In Twenty Twenty Zeke. Yes yes it is so it is yes happy new year indeed. Happy Belated New Year. Yes thank you so much. y'All sites wonderful to be hits. They welcome to the Roaring Twenty S. Nick thank you all right. So so here are big episode. One seventy five live. We are GONNA talk of course crisis on infinite earths parts foreign five The final two parts of the big five episode. CW Era Verse Crossover that ended back in December With a nice little cliffhanger and here we are finally a month later we get to talk about it and which of course took place place on with Arrow Episode Eight of the eighth season and There was part four and then of course picking ending during the The story line with a special episode of legends of Tomorrow Right before the fifth season starts so it's essentially like episodes zero of season five where we talked crisis on infinite earths part five and before we get started. I WANNA kinda get everybody's general general feel for these final two parts Jesse kind of know your thoughts on this but But let's let's go with you I and Just kind of give us a general your general reaction to these final two chapters so Charles and I have talked tweet recorded a An earlier we did a doctor. Who podcast tonight shared with them? That was a little disappointed in the episodes. I re watched them today. Ah Yes I'm like them a little bit more good but but still I think the I think that the last two episodes suffered and they were not as good as the first three. Okay Nick how about you what are your. What's is your general? Take on the last two chapters. Well it's interesting that the Jesse said that because I'm kind of I kind of feel the same way as it was nice. It was a nice ending but a little bit underwhelming at the same time. I mean I think there were quite a few threads left bare as it were and I think you know we have this great great buildup doubled up to something that seemed like. It's incredibly epic and I think it fell slightly flat. I loved it I enjoyed it and I'm looking inside. Didn't enjoy but at the same same time I would have expected something a little bit more seeing. How positive the PR? The pro. The prayed wasn't a thirsty episodes. Right right yeah I mean I I get where you guys are coming from totally feel that for me. Personally I think the show I think the final two parts suffered it from having that that month long gap I think I think It kind of like took away from the momentum that gap. I get why they did because they kind of wanted to have a little bit of a cliffhanger and obviously if you read monthly comic books you know you're kind of used to that having to wait wait a month to find out what happens next but I think the momentum suffered as a result and I think the decision to end it with a legends of tomorrow. Ro episode which if you watch legends of tomorrow you know that show can be slightly bunkers so we say and so oh. I don't think it quite ended on the note it would have had this been say supergirl or the flash for a final chapter. Yeah I have a question yet. Rosedale did so did. That's my opinion go. I think that's good but is was there one committee that wrote all five episodes or did each riding staff right the individual individual episodes because In fact in my mind they did not feel that different so I did not just because it was a a legends episode. I didn't feel like it was a little different except for the stupid. You know Viva walking around Really Know L.. Who Hates Bebo? Come on man yeah. Well it's not like I'm you know. Criticizing Canine No. No no because then we would have to throw down yes it would be alone Charles. I've got back you up. Nobody this is take my wife and my wife Lori would just take you down in a heart she did she. Did you know people call you out for that all right. Yeah I wonder was was it. You know if you noticed that same writers. It was kind of the you know the staff writers writing each episode now. Supposedly there was writer's room overseen by Argon. hyme okay was kind of like shepherding. The event But but if you kind of notice ero isn't exactly known for its writing and especially in the later seasons you know like after say season three the onward The writing has been. Shall we say pretty poor and a lot of times. You know every so often we get a great episode and I'm not going to discount that but generally generally The writing has been substandard and I think Guggenheim has been part of that and so so he co wrote. S- Co writes part four. Four but LEGISLA. Tomorrow you know show that you know it. It's more quirky key. It's beat it doesn't take itself as seriously as the others other air over shows so consequently in and I think that that was carried through where you got with things like the giant Biba. And we'll talk about that when we talk about the legends episode. Because we're going to break down each episode but but I think There was a little too much of that legends. Feel and. I don't think it was nearly as epic as it could could've been In the legends chapter in my opinion not that it was bad but it could have been a lot better in my opinion. But then we'll talk about that so we'll get everybody's take because I'm sure everybody's got their own thoughts about this as we run this down so So without any further do then why don't we go ahead and start. You're talking about ero episode. Eight of season eight crisis on infinite earths part for that air it of course on January fourteenth twenty not twenty so trying to get used to saying twenty twenty and my podcasts written. By and this was I thought was rather rather awesome written by Marv Wolfman and Marc Guggenheim now. Of course MARV Wolfman the writer of crisis on infinite earths plotting thing that of course with George Perez and his his artistic co-creator on that series but How cool was it to have crisis on infinite? Earths Marv Wolfman c'mon writing a chapter of the crisis on infinite. Earths air overs. Crossover pretty cool. I thought I yeah I it was nice and was nice for that cameo. We'll talk I was looking for George Indeed So but I'm focusing on the niceness of it not I would have awesome like the scene. You know George Cameo. I would've liked to seen George Perez get a cameo as well. George had some medical issues if If you're familiar with him at all these days So I'm I'm guessing that's probably why we didn't see him on screen but probably makes. Yeah so maybe. He just didn't feel up to appearing or something sure he was asked. I would have been very surprised because they know he and mark get along so I don't think there's any bad blood there as as far as I know anyway not at all so so that's probably why my guess anyway so this up so directed by Glenn Winter directed a lot of the big budget episodes For the Arrow verse and This one I've obviously where you have Oliver is the specter throwing down with the Anti Monitor. No exception and Getting love to get everybody's thoughts about this. So Gentlemen Let's start. Start with Nick. I Nicolai any initial thoughts about part four before I start throwing out some topics to tie. Think of AVISTA. These two loss to episodes in this was the better one for sure I didn't I I do. I do have some nitpicks on this which I'm sure we will discuss discuss. But all in all if I were to compare the these DOS to absence. This was the better of the two hawks. Yeah I agree with that. And just how about you initial thoughts about this work. I think it's slightly better. I think The the ending of number five Kinda helps offspring it up a little bit right so It is a big episode because we need this. We get the death of a major character in this episode. I mean how many how many more times Rian have Oliver Dye. Well I mean that's I mean presumably. This'll be because there's only a two more episodes of Arrow you know what I'm saying. We've had the big death in episode one right and now we're having a second death and I'm supposed to okay. You can only go to the wall so many times. I think that's one of the reasons why I like. Okay that's you're you're you're cheating all right. If we were supposed to be sad that he died aide then Why are we now? Oh He's comeback as a spectrum now he's died again. I just think that was not well. Served well If you remember when we talked our our first parts one two and three. I threw out the idea that hey I was gonna come back with the specter because he has to throw down with the Anti Time Monitor he has to be the one to take him down. And that's that's what happens is you didn't like to fight not worth anything. Yeah okay okay all right all right so We kind of start this episode off with the origin. A little bit of the The Monitor we can get a little story here. We get An actress named Melanie Murkowski as ex Novo presumably ably his wife and who is a fellow scientists and essentially if you read the original crisis on infinite earths comic you know that there's a a character named krona. Who is a major part of that where we see krona? He was a scientist experimenting. Going reaching all the way back to the dawn of time. And it's that act which kind of unleashes the anti monitor the Anti Monitor Anti Matter Universe. So in the era overs continuity we have the monitor essentially his creation which also creates the Anti Monitor is there is is the cause of this instead of krona? And so nick. What any thoughts about what you thought about the origin for the Monitor? Well I will have to say that as soon as I'm sure just like you guys who know the comics as soon as I heard the word. Multi billion. Yen's a huge coal whole green lantern heartstrings. Right knowing of course that is the race of the at the gardens of the universe. Not Shooting I was hoping to see some of our little blue friends but I guess you you know. Obviously they probably evolved and became the new blue men later. Yes but I was an interesting origin for. It's not like the fact they did introduce the concept of off the mouth Then maybe give some leeway for the Green Lantern TV series which apparently should be coming out in H on. HBO Friday retire this year when you cut win future so I really really liked that. I liked by Kobe. They did introduce this concept to us. It was a it was a nice introduction. I think it was the relationship between the two. I thought was nice but I think it was a little bit rushed. We'd like okay. Look you before. He became became the monitoring. He had a wife and he was married and he was happy in Wisconsin but it was kind of very very quick paced and we didn't really get too much time to spend with bed at at the same time so it was was nice but it could have been maybe built upon a little bit more oil. Don't even put a character like that and just say he was a scientist. He was working on this stuff. Stop in and then he became the monitor the end up creating the anti us. I think her character was a little bit superfluous on in narrative. Speaking so so so even though. It kind of gave us the backstory for the Monitor. You would have been willing to sacrifice that to focus on other things I would have. Yes because I feel feel that when you you putting stuff like this in you could have done other. You know something to make story even more competitive the origin of the character. But you know. Maybe you quick flashback or something executive there was this guy and he was in exploring space and stuff we happens happens to open the gateway to he was at the door to time in the end up opening gateway to the Anti Matter Universe and thus creating the team on its something kind of more snappy to to get us to where we are. I'm sure everybody waiting a month for this new episode friends who I think we should. We definitely WanNa get the good stuff as soon as possible. Right right that makes sense to me perfectly so Just any thoughts about the origin of the Monitor. So I am so so glad you went there nick because originally when you're talking about the background story I was going I I just I'm just GonNa be comfy grumpy this time like you kind of got in that. I didn't care we didn't need that. I feel like it was a waste of time. It was like Oh we have have to give this origin because it's important in the comic. No it's not we don't need to know that okay there. You know. There's a problem with time. We don't have to have the reason reason I I just feel like it was. Do you think they would have got crap from fans if they hadn't included you're GONNA get crap no matter what they do and so this in and that's what it feels like. Well we're going to do this just because we know we're going to get crab that no one. Okay explain to that because you know. Ah I would've rather take that six minutes and I timed it. I was watching it and I went. Okay I can see just the Stop Watch going on the DVR. It shows how far it is. Yes and you go I would rather that five or six minutes showing other worlds. That were back you know like at the very end of this episode. We get seeing what the world's that they they left it very unclear. You're on what exists in the multi verse in what doesn't get you know why doesn't happen until par-five but yeah yeah I've got the no hard four worlds right at the very into four. You see all the different worlds. That's that's par five. Okay Trust me on this. Trust me on this. That's that's kind of how they N.. Things by showing you the different worlds. Yeah this is true. Yeah all right okay so but it doesn't matter near neither here nor there so So yeah that I I get your point I get it and so it's just what yeah it's one of the things that You know could have been time spent better on other things. Thanks so what both of you are saying. Yeah I think so okay. And that's fair. I think that's a fair point all right with it. Did you feel like you needed that because it because as I feel like you like these two episodes a lot more than I did well and that's good. I'm really glad I did. You know you and I've talked about this right. You and I are never going to be unhappy that someone really loved something. Yes you know. That doesn't affect us So if you liked it more. I'm so happy for you. Okay well yeah I mean I enjoyed it because I kinda taken into consideration. Well okay. It's the the TV version it's the CW TV version of crisis. It's not going to be perfect. It's not gonNA be like I want it to be and so I kind of give it a little more more slack as a result I I guess I didn't need it to be perfect and I didn't need it. I just needed it to be better than it was. I needed it to be good. Okay and not just don't feel like it was good. Okay all right. That's fair perfectly entitled to your opinion all right so we catch Gotcha with our paragon. who were kind of left Hanging out at vanishing point at the as the cliffhanger of part three and on in essentially they're kind of spinning their wheels Ryan Choi who is essentially our human perspective in this is is writing letters to his vanish. Wife about how they're all dealing with things and he's like grown out a beard we find out. It's been a month since they're hanging out I gotta wonder who's been doing their laundry because they've been wearing the same costumes for a month apparently and Finally Bury shows up and apparently he's it's You know. Apparently he's been gone for months but for him. It was like like seconds and because he kept trying to go into the speed force with no luck and so they were kind of left. They're still spinning their wheels. A little bit and and finally Oliver shows up as the spectre and he kinda reveals that the speed force's. Hey that's the key to saving everybody. And everybody Kinda reacts to seeing Oliver as the spectre so any thoughts from anybody about out Oliver showing up the specter. I Know Jesse you know you're probably seemed like you had a problem with it. Considering that he died you know already previously previously. Oh no I'd like to miss the Specter I that was a really nice twist you know It was green lantern in a in the past. Yeah no couch role would how Jordan died. Yes so I thought this was a really nice way And I actually thought that I thought what you should do is keep him alive and then have him either. Die Or continue to be the spectra in the next two episodes of errol that we're GONNA see. I don't think they needed to wrap this up the way they did in in crisis so I have no problem with him being the specter. And I like everything about that and going back and seeing it and the whole touching touching berry on the forehead and like booth. Now you've got extra powers all that's super. Yeah the execution though of the very ending I was like I just. It didn't leave me if they wanted me to be sad. It didn't work for me. Okay all right. Connect any thoughts on seeing Oliver's the specter. Well I'm a huge fan of the specter so I was very happy to see. I think they did a good job when it came to uh Stephen the male played this particular Character because it needs a certain Gravitas to it and we know that sometimes Stephen Lamelo oh you know his acting can you know it kind of is hit and miss but I think in this case he rating nailed it because it was very straight it was the way you'd want the specter to be around. It was really really cool. Well I go in general when you're talking about describing the whole scene of our heroes kind of being the wheels spinning and stuff from their kind of just waiting around. I kind of got a beginning of end game in the worst kind of beating. You know it's like the aftermath of what just happened and everybody's super depressed and stuff and I think there are lots of similarities between this and endgame it especially the role that some stephen a melon and all plays in this because Tony Stock then ends up being the committing the alternate sacrifice to save the rest to save everybody so I think that was over that. I'm not saying this Saturday that they were trying to copy what was happening in endgame but it was I. I had that probably bias having no in game still my mind but other than that I love the atmosphere and I was a big fan of of the specter. What about you Charles caused do like it? I always loved the Specter. I thought he was. He's been a very cool character. He was you know Co created by Jerry Siegel who co created Superman so he now. It's a character. There's been around a long long time very powerful character. And when he's written he can be a very cool character and the familiar with of course with with how Jordan becoming the specter during the whole day of judgment miniseries and that kind of like follow up spectre after series that lasted a couple years with with house the Specter before they decided. Okay well you need to back lantern and to kind of redeem him a little bit after that whole para lacks thing so so it was a nice twist to have oliver do that here in and discontinuity and you know like when I talked about it before that It makes perfect sense because Oliver since this is kind of his final saga And the plan from what I understand was that it was always Oliver was going to die in crisis that was the plan and so You know with the with the Arrow show there's still a couple of episodes left The next episode is supposed to be like the green air on the canaries back door pilot. So that doesn't really count and I'm sure the final episode. It's going to be more of a kind of epilogue to the series as we kind of right out the remaining characters and probably you'll get a voice over or something from Stephen Mel so essentially this is his final story. This is how he wraps up. And you know crisis the original comic was the kind that that you know. Had Two big desks with supergirl and the flash and so here we get Arrow Green Arrow but he comes back just briefly as the spectre just to take out the NFL monitor before he dies again and I thought like you said Nick I think Stephen. A male stepped up He kind of gave the specter a little bit more of a different personality than he gave Oliver Queen. I thought you know that he's more cosmic we cosmic Louis aware. Then of course Oliver would be so he's he's probably has a more obviously a more different approach but still felt like Stephen and Mel. Because hey it's the same actor doing it right and so you know it just it kind of It it it makes sense and In any kind of drive things forward because we're driving toward that that big spectrum versus Anti Monitor air clash in this episode. All right so Next topic I want to talk about just really quickly. You know we have we pick up from here They come up with a plan to find Mar Nobu and essentially the team Kinda splits up We have Half the team going tumultous To try to stop more new from becoming the monitor and you know creating the anti monitor the process and the rest Trying to We have berry trying to run around the speed forest trying to to bring everyone together and so we kind of find we find that characters are being held together there by the spectre and just like in the comics and we have some nice little scenes and we have at this great scene where berry literally runs into another flash so we kind of have a flash of two worlds thing and that's a big one is a big cameo where we get Grant Guston's flash meeting. Ezra Miller is flash from Justice League. So go with Nick. I because I know he's my fellow L.. A. Flash Fan and nick. Wh What did you think of grant Guston's flash meeting those flash to be honest. This was really really happy. I mean I know that when we had actually talked about as Ramallah being the flashing happiness. And you'd be a positive. That's Charles. I liked liked this this this flash but at the same time I was thinking to myself. He is Hummus surprised when he when the name flashes uttered. So we're thinking and he has the costume so are the hasn't given himself a name yet right all. He doesn't go on but the two worked so well together. And here I think is where also also Ezra Miller is more comedic side which was rather berated than disliked in the Justice League. Movie shines which makes sense because he you can be funny. It's like oh you want to sell bro. I didn't know that this was caused play or the kind of thing it was. It was great fun it was like if I could. They you know noted there was a nod to the DC while saying we also acknowledging these you exists and to get as Romila. You have to think that they really have to make. Plus we stretch the budget to have him come on and make an appearance you know as we may be used to seeing him on the big screen on TV that much anymore. So I love. I absolutely loved it. I think to act as must have had a blast as well. Yeah from what I understand. They had they made sure grant was cool with the idea of the cameo before they did. Hit it. And but Yeah it seems like they got along pretty well. At least it came off that way and the scene so Jesse. What were your thoughts about that that that crossover so I'm about to lose my DC badge? Because I did not recognize who it was I I was like doc is I guess this is supposed to be someone we know. Yes You know I haven't Bree Watch Justice League probably you know probably out. Yeah so from your mind just like And and so I didn't recognize them. It wasn't until afterwards when I was reading eating in everyone was talking about. Oh that was the coolest cameo ever and I'm like Oh oh that's who it was and so When I watched it again today Appreciate now more. I didn't I mean I guess it's cool that the DC universe send films is met the TV but it just is too. It's it's too Meta it it just doesn't I mean I mean I don't know I think it would have worked better. Maybe when we were doing the other cameos like in the first three episodes Yeah so I was not impressed west at all it just it. It isn't something that I would. Oh that's so slick it was like okay. I guess that was nice and and I also this is going to sound horrible. I mean how big of a guy actor is this guy I mean. He's played the flash and the jubilee but I mean it isn't isn't like it's you know and you know and also the fantastic beasts movie better piece movies. Yeah but he's not the huge name no but But you know it's it's kind of it's kind of Nice that this is the first real crossover between the DC EU. Do anything else really. And so they ought to be like an act of God at Warner Brothers to make this happen and so it's from a from a you know of someone who's been watching this stuff. It feels like at least to me. It feels like a big deal once again. I am thrilled. It's a big deal that you guys that makes me very well and I and I like the fact that you know there was there was a fun little. That's one of my quotes Or you know you've got the two flashes comparing their costumes and I thought that was find. especially it's kind of like a little bit dig on as reflect Ezra's flash costume being this clunky armor compared compared to grants comfy costume and and I thought that was rather fun. So I'm glad I was. I appreciate that Ezra was willing to do it. I'm glad that grant was willing to do it and It's just a fun little nod for fans. I thought all right. So we catch up supergirl finds LEX and who's apparently reveals her. Uh Hey surprise. I've been working on universal domination plan and I've got powers because hey awesome and there's a nice little throw down a very quick and then We have Berry still working around his way looking looking for people he shows up you know he kind of crosses into the else world's crossover for a little bit which was kind of Nice because he's there at scene that he didn't have have a party in in that one and that was Kinda Nice watching. You Know Superman Catch Lois and all that and so that was good Any thoughts about You know the various You know the little any Any thoughts about the various little. MM speed force reminding everybody catching up with the way things are in this kind of spectator verse. So I'm going to bring up something that I hope doesn't come across as Jerky okay but too late. Maybe there's been a historically historically Kalihi. Yes when we discuss shows yes you do not go through the plot by plot you go through themes yeah because there are things to discuss us yes there are no themes in this episode. There is no topics. So you're having to go plot by plot which I think is a very the reason and why this is not a good episode. It is not got enough depth. I talk about an overall theme instead. You're having to kind of go through the stories and I think that's a sign of why this is week. Okay well I think because there's just so many characters and so many things going on and maybe Eh. Yeah I mean. That's that's the way I think I had their approach. We I mean we could break this down into like okay No no you're leading. I'm just saying that like I said I went in wanting to love it. It's just it's not bad I certainly. It's it's not gods monsters you know my love yes exactly all right all right go on doctor who okay. Now I'm afraid to continue on all right as they go trepidation reputation Asli into the good night. Let's see so We kinda get the spectra giving everybody a pep talk and and this leads us of course to the big battle so Oliver vs Oliver Specter. Wherever you want to call him versus the the Anti Monitor anybody any thoughts about that big battle okay? Well at the battle of the battle for reality itself well Charles House if I if I made the first thing I wanted to actually say was. You've mentioned the about some team that we got with John. Criers next looser. And I would just like this. Make a small mentioned saying that I think in these two episodes Joan cry to me is one of the. MVP's of these episodes. Because I think he's he's fantastic. He really is a great next bear in mind. I'm fresh off Batman v Superman. Sir Jesse Eisenberg's lex luther up so it was actually wonderful to see this kind of lex luther. Because I've had my problems with Jesse Eisenberg gots another story but join you and everybody else but John Cryan. I think it's definitely the MVP in this in these two episodes when it came to the battle. I two words to brief. That's what I think is was was my the problem with it. In the sense I felt the answering onto was dispatched to easily gronk. Even in the comex he gets the defeated and then he comes back so I figured that was what they were going to do with this series too but it just seems to quick fade to happen. As soon as the bats will happen. I was so excited in seeing super. Go flying hang off the flash rushing erasing. This is what I would like to someday. See the Justice League film. This is how a battle should be. But the the battle between tweeting them The Specter and the Anti Monitor. Yeah it was good but other study was way too quick. And we'll so what's with people just staring and making taking something happened in seeing nothing that we understand what is going on. Let's put our powers together. You know kind of thing. They just standing in line staring and something happens. You're like what was that. I stare at stuff. But that doesn't happen to me so it does my big gripe with that was funded like I said. I think it was just was to brief Either on Jesse has things happens to. I'm sure it I'm sure it is go for it. Yeah I didn't think it was That impressive mm-hmm you know we're fighting. It looks like bad spirits from you. Know Harry Potter's world. What did this call the shadow demon? Yeah Yeah what did they the mentors. Yeah I just wasn't impressed with it I read but those are from Christ the crisis comic book so once again boy. You don't put them. The world's our fans are gonNA. Joe Are going to be unhappy if if you're gonNA adapt crisis at the F.. Crisis Yeah I just I just. Didn't I wasn't impressed with it And I I do get if I did think it was the funny. I hadn't thought of this still nick said it but yes all our heroes stood on the hillside and saying I'd like to By the world and they're like teach the world there's a timely reference. Yes They I mean they're all just like we're all going going to think positive thoughts even right the most evil of Super Villains That was a good line races. So that's what it feels like to be a hero Yeah Yeah you know it was just you. I'm going to hush up now and let you guys talk because I'm just GonNa keep going me okay. Well thanks to Mr Excitement there for that all right I get it I you know the battle. I agree that could have been a lot better. I think I think if you're gonNA take anything away you should have taken away from early on in the episode where the heroes these are doing like Nixon and I thought it was a very astute observation doing that whole end game reset where we're all Kinda mopey. We feeling hopeless and yeah I think I would have taken at least a good five minutes away from that and redirected it toward this fight and maybe by this point. The budget was starting to run out. I don't know So maybe they kind of had to rush through this a little bit but But I think it would have been to have more impact and and I think again. This is Guggenheim. I have problems with his writing If he you know we've talked about when caroline and I were doing the Phantom Zone podcast we used to talk about many an Arrow episode. That could have been executed better and this is probably one of those that could have been executed better but ultimately we get the result that we were looking for for it opens up and essentially what we have is a DC rebirth and which is something that should be familiar to a lot of modern fans and and the universe gets reborn and Oliver in the process is the spark for that and he gives his is life to kind of jump. Start the new. DC Air overs universe multi-diverse and dies at last one one final time and he dies in an episode so instead of dying in say you know bat woman or they did before so he's so he's actually finally pay off to the Arrow viewers Jesse raises. And as or like you getting being married when it's not your when you're right yes talk you. I remember I was very frustrated with this. No I Like why can't bury an Irish get married in their own flash episode. Why yes? It is without Felicity jumping all over it. Yeah I I do think that's It is nice that they're going to give him an ending Dean And like I said I wasn't overly emotional with it though. I do like it but it does seem I am glad they talk about it. And I think it's it's in the next episode where the Aero crew are all upset. They were there at the ending. They find out what has so. We'll talk about that and I think that was a fee. I think that was I think that was is sharing some frustrations that fans may have And actually being true the characters I think diggle would have been happy happy. He would have been unhappy. He would have been. I should have been there. I should have been a decide. Even if I didn't make a difference you know my brother shouldn't have to die alone so we'll talk next episode but yeah yeah it was But you know he helps save the day and you know and that's that's cool. Yeah You you know and we know this might have been how stephen a male wanted to go out to. Yes so we have to kind of take that into account I think because As far as they know he wasn't unhappy with the way his character died. These there hasn't been any reports that he was unhappy. All right anything else about this part for from anybody he say's that maybe Oz Rick Chow's character could have been used to deal with better because you really like you didn't know what the heck he was doing and I was. I was like what are you doing here. Man I mean they gave them to do in the next episode but this one it just made no sense to have him here to be honest. They didn't they didn't know what to do with Kim. Yeah this like again Guggenheim. And maybe both men I don't know but But Yeah I didn't know what to do with him in this in this for this episode at least Favorite quotes anybody favorite quotes. They'd like to share on part four. I have a couple. Okay go for it. The what a minute I thought was very funny. Is Ryan saying lex. pull the Luther on that was good. Yeah go ahead. Oh all right I've got one. Obviously I had to do this one. the big Exchange between the DC extended universe flash and the air overs flash. Where they're comparing their costumes? And let's see I just for the sake of of to make it a little easier. I'll just say a miller. Flash says I like your outfit it seems comfy and the guston flash replies yours is pretty cool and Miller flash says smooth like he's touching he's starting to touch Britt and he's caressing car or something and and then guston's flash says yeah. He's looking at it over at Miller's costume at the armories stories like seems safe like keep kind of comparing and you're like admiring the others and then and then finally Miller says yeah it's yours is breathable. It's breathable yes so so. I thought that was rather cute. Because they're kind of doing this at the same time so it's a little hard for me to do that but but this kind of back and forth and I just it was kind ed nice to see the two berries Interacting at never gets old to make no. I thought that was really well done. I agree Especially especially when I knew who it was. You know it's like yeah that was great Another good one. y'All go ahead go ahead go. Another one is an and I actually I thought Ryan heads of good lines in considering how chaotic and how full the cast is it. Pretty well but he's you know he's doing the narration and Narc Knock Grist Social Patterson Evil Genius there are ways to describe lex Luther and then you hear lex luther out loud idiot. Why couldn't I be trapped at the edge of attorney with someone possessing assessing more than two hundred points and Ryan goes? But I find you spag be the most descriptive I want a lot. There was good nick. Can he quotes. You'd like to share. Well I did mention Joan cry earlier being the MVP and he had some wonderful lines. I think in this case in point the brave and the ball in the the board I think that was good. I loved it and also when now Chow's character comes in and goes you ruined the perfect bad guy plan. That was just the way he delivers the lines. I think is wonderful because they could seem very cheesy but just the way John Cryan delivers he's lines one right. Yeah I I still can't get over the fact that lex luther like nephew lenny. From Superman for the quest for peace has turned out to be the best onscreen LEX Luther. We've gotten so far. You know when he was on that after show this Kevin Smith and everything he he really came across how much he was excited to do. This and I agree. He has been really good and I'm probably wanted to redeem himself for Lenny. Yeah Yeah I've got one more before it. And and I'm there's a Oliver's big line. I hope you have that. So I'm GonNa do another one for you but once again Ryan I don't know about hope but you're definitely the paragon of pep talks and years of practice of one of the things I love about this series. He's and in this episode of just period is the optimism they show with supergirl. And that's it's a very it's very true to the spirit of Superman and super girl comics so I really like that. Yeah Yeah I think so. I'm going to end with a Oliver Queen Quote Nobody else has any others. They WANNA share but I'M GONNA Oliver says dying dying is easy. The dead are at peace the real heroes are the ones who have to keep going great and I thought that was a great quote. I do too you and I I loved how they re they re Berkeley on. Yes uh-huh yeah as as Oliver's actually dying Charles we're GONNA I'm GonNa let you give your rating. I okay okay. I'M GONNA give this one probably being very generous by the sound kind of it. I'm giving this one eight and a half out of ten Green Arrow's love and honor in honor of Oliver Queen. Good alright all right nick. I'm going to give this a six and a half out of ten Anti monitors. Oh okay yeah I thought my seven out of ten pages of of the book of destiny was going to be the low score so Yeah okay. Knicks the Knicks Knicks. He's he's European. So European judges are always talking for forever. Yes absolutely I also wanted to say though. My point five is given to the fact that I think it's just knee but the tuned lex whistles. Isn't that the same tune. That's LEX. lex Luther whistles in the quest piece yes it is nice not very slight very slight joke. Yes I Eddie catch that yes. All right Okay so let's move on Legislative tomorrow episodes zero of season season five crisis on infinite earths part five which also aired on January twenty. Excuse Me January fourteenth twenty twenty written by Shimazu and Yuba Mohammed directed by Gregory Smith and This one we have a few guests we've got of course MARV Wolfman s himself and which was a integrate cameo. We have to talk about that Cress Williams is black. Lightning being Rena hardesty as whether which role. Harare as Sargon the sorcerer and of course Benjamin Diskin doing the Voice of Bibo Abo- Bebo hugs all right so All right so Any general thoughts about the the final chapter of crisis. Go ahead Jesse. Okay okay. I like this one better okay. Partly because of the ending There there there is there is nothing there is that was just a cool ending ending I like Kinda how everything set up. And the whole The legends did not get a lot to do but but when they had them and kind of their self of aware joking about crossovers was funny. You know the whole did they kidnapped you. That's what they do. And you know like in cates like yeah I was the Newbie last time You know it was just it it. This was was. I thought a a better episode and maybe because they weren't trying to do necessarily a the battle addle to end all battles or stuff this one. I just thought it was a little better. Yeah that's that's fair Nick any general thoughts about this episode before he gets talking in Alamar details well just to give is very briefly. I did not like this episode as much as I like the first one and I will then go further into I detail. There were a few things that I really low rating things out of. That was very very happy with things I was like. Why are you doing in this? I mean please. Can we do something. That's here. I mean I have to say I was very tough when this episode. 'cause I love this stuff so much and sometimes you have to be a tough parents with the kids that you love because you want them to do well and sometimes you know I think it was very tough love on my part so sit for you all right nothing wrong with that. So I'm going to say I didn't like it as much and I will I will. I will show my writing as they say. Okay all right. That's fair that's right so let me tell you kind of set the table for this one really quickly. This is essentially the episode. Where we kind of see the fallout from part four and we were? We've woken up. It's a brand new earth and as we find out through the course of this episode. We're on what's we're not on earth one on anymore. We're on earth prime and just like a lot of us had predicted before crisis started. This was going to be crisis was is going to be used as the way to kind of merge the aero or aero verse Earth's so that the key characters would be on the same earth so they wouldn't have to do any like dimension hopping or you know using vibe or something to to interact with one another. They're all on the same earth and and every city you've got national city now in the same earth you've got free Lynn now on the same earth and we kind of pick up with that and the fallout from that because this new earth things are a little different. It's not the same old to kind of kind of it kind of rebirth in a in a rebirth way Where we kind of relaunch in in some things are different To set up some future storylines down the road on each individual series. First and foremost must we get we find out that. Hey on this version of earth prime lex luther is not a fugitive criminal. In fact. He's he's more like the lex that we know from. Say the John Byrne Era Superman where he's the very successful businessman this man who has a very public persona and is on the surface as well liked but of course we know he's secretly up to no good good and it's going to be up to the heroes to try to bring him down and I'm sure that's gotta be the main focus on supergirl and probably Superman and lois as we go forward. So any thoughts about lex luther The new LEX Luther I love hoped continuity. I loved it very much. I mean it made me think of kind of the Superman story. becomes presence of the United States and And so I I really love that you know I think it kind of also had the audience guessing a little bit as there. Was this old down to him. All did did Oliver live a wants to give him a fresh start to make him into a good guy. So you don't know until you get that wink from John Cry. I think like Aw. Aw It's you know. He must have rewritten himself. In some way will he must have had a hand in in changing himself and I thought it was wonderful in ooh Melissa. Benoist did a really good job in this. I think in her reaction to this in shock. and where everybody's like. She used to horrified by all this exactly. Like he's such such a great guy you know her in him and Lena two of your biggest supporters in stopping. She's just can't hack it and you don't you just as going crazy and deaf. Yes I love that and yes I was. I was a big fan of this. You loving the comics. The fact the coast areas that situation the comics do show. I was definitely very happy camper in this escapes. Can I kind of wonder what happened with Lena. That's Yucky. We'll find that out. Jesse how about you. What's your thoughts on new Luther? I love of the new Luther. I love the kind of weak The idea that everyone thinks he's a good guy and they admire him And that you know Cara remembers that. No I am very curious to see what they're going to do because One of the big story lines and Super Bowl. This season has been a lena being unhappy with them. So I think that is something. I'm looking forward to seeing But yeah I mean I don't and I agree with you. Nick You I know is this you know this is somehow him having that book of destiny has been able to let him. You know manipulate things and do that. So we'll see what happens. But I thought that was a nice twist and Kinda gives you as Ryder going forward. Something Fun to play with and it appears Jon. Cryer is is enjoying playing luthor. And he's like. Hey you know you guys want me to guest star and beyond this TV show. I'm I'm thrilled to be at which we're GONNA obviously see more of LEX. And he looks like he's going to be more brought into not just like a guest star. Status is going to be like he's going to be in the forefront for a while. Yeah and I like the idea you you know especially you're setting things up because we are going to have a a lois and Clark season episodes who though I think it's important to have You I need. You need lex in as a role in that. Yeah yeah and maybe. Maybe they're going to be using him to set up superman. Lois Esi okay but but Yeah and then one of the things we find out is that all the paragon apparently are they remember what things were like before our and that includes lax because he was one of the paragon aunts and so So lex remembers Earth. You know the multi verse before and I'm sure he's going to be using that to his advantage. Somehow yes absolutely. We'll see all right Next week at this wonderful cameo by Marv Wolfman as I I just comes up to supergirl and the flash learned that. Hey we live on the same earth now and you know he shows up as this autograph honor and that was a fun little cameo. I thought any any thoughts about MARV Wolfman Cameo as kind of had a purpose at least let everybody know. Let them know that they're on the same earth now. Yeah I thought it was a really well. I thought how perfect that The writer of the original national crisis and so much of of this mythos has been based on a lot of his work one of the icons John's of modern. DC writing Is it was great to see him and As a longtime T- we knew teen Titan Fan. I also I also thought and this is just for you and I- Charles Leah would have been going you're burnt-out you suck. She would've been yelling at the TV service. Yes yeah unfortunately. Our late Lindley elite friend. Elliot Ezio back back in the day back in the ninety s when we're all part of the Titan Talk APPA Amateur Press Association Fan Group and Yeah we we. We had a few interesting thoughts about MARV. Wolfman is writing back then and this is of course during the nineties during the eighties when he was with George Perez and so But you know it's it's Kinda you know. He's older now. So it's Kinda hard to hold grudges right. Yeah hold yeah no I really nice and especially now that you remind me fighting probably some health reasons Yes absolutely I would've loved it but at least Marvez able to yes absolutely. I agree so so yeah I would have been great if we had both but uh-huh understandable if there's medical reasons why George Pres- wasn't there I Nick any thoughts about Marsk Cameo on a huge fan of mob Wolfman is writing and he's created some of my all time favorite characters both in Mauve landing. The Caesar was wonderful to see him. I thought it was very the cool that they brought him in and said you know this is this is just the guy who created just a few characters were slight lead show in the comic. We'll so that was nice. They gave him his do and I certainly hope that when we get the new blades film they will do the same thing because marvel for those also creating blades. WHO's one of my this and I hope we might get to see him in the new blades films? welk's it'd be really really cool. That would be the thought because especially now that yeah the marvels got control blade. which is Great Now I thought this one I love the scene but I thought it was a kind of a missed the opportunity to not have mark going to both flash and supergirl. Didn't I kill both of you. Missed opportunity I agreements jogye. Yeah just like aren't you dead. I thought it was all right all right. So let's move on so We kind of pick up catching up all across We catch up in central city. We we catch up with team ero and T- marrow You know the essentially. We've got Sarah going around telling people along with John Jones Barsha manhunter filling people in telepathically and T Mero finds out that Oliver's dead and diggle especially does not take eh very. Well so what did everybody make of that. Jesse you want to go first on this. Yeah I The repercussions this felt more like an Arrow episodes in a legends of tomorrow and so I'm sure we will get more in the next two who episodes a barrel discussions but I thought Despite me not being emotionally moved by Oliver's is death I still like how they they talked about it and they respected and You know diggle has been such a great character from my perspective of from the very beginning when he was Oliver's bodyguard in how they figured it out and how they've worked worked together and when you know once it started with one there were two and then with felicity I I I was a little sad. That the real world interval wind and the actress who plays felicity is you you know has already left the show. So we didn't get. They talked about her but Sierra I I was a little sad about that but overall there's just nothing not to like like about that. Yeah I'm guessing. We're going to find out her reaction to Oliver's in the in the Your final episode guessing guessing. We'll we'll get. We'll get her reaction that all right and then nick any thoughts about About T- tomorrow's reaction to Oliver's death. I I thought it was actually beautiful. Women the actors literally acted their hearts out on this. And it'll be take. The emotion was so tangible and I loved it from everybody I am also huge fan of of jungle and I sincerely hope he will be where he will become green nonsense eventually. Because I'm so so so hoping because he's just was hoping for that. I was hoping for that crisis. Personally me too because it was seemed. Seems like they've been teasing us. Jon Stewart's Jones runs Kinda thing right But yes I I love. I love these guys I having you know. We've we've literally spent years with these characters and so they are part of our about shall we say. I don't think I say this exaggerates rates as part of our extended family almost zero so as I raise for felt for them you know from Diana to renate to everybody it was wonderful and you could. That's how they were really really sad and I think maybe also in the back of their minds they also thinking you know. This journey is coming to an end for US actors too. Because you you know it's it's Arrow is going to be ending and so some of these characters might not see again some. We might not but I think that was thinking that too that the is was there a coming a journey coming to a close so it was it was very bittersweet leather was one of the highlights of this episode. I thought I thought David Ramsay especially did a great job as diggle his reaction to finding out about our. Oh yes yeah I agree absolutely and hopefully. We'll get a bit a little bit more of that. That in the final episode. All right we get we Next thing that happens we get a giant Bibo attacking the city Where things take a very legends of TOMORROW TURN TURNS OUT? It's just a diversion for Sargon. The sorcerer robbing a bank and he gets quickly taken down I WANNA. I don't know if we need to spend any time on that. I just WANNA say as much I'm I was harassing that. Yes either there is something beautiful about that about a giant star. The rampaging down the main street I laughed so hard the first time they did it on legends and then yeah I feel like I couldn't believe they did it again. I was happy to see Sargon. You know the you you know that from the Golden Age and although he's a villain here yeah but You know in the comics so obviously a hero about this but yeah by far one of my favorite things about legends is. Roy has become the Jayne Cobb character on this and mcmurray wave anyway m being being very prolific where he is ended up being a romance novelist romance. Just there's nothing about that I don't love I just smile at that. Never gets old and to see him science it s Rebecca Silver. I that is actually one of my quotes his plume. Yeah absolutely all right nick and he thought about Bebo for move on well I I just felt it. Will I think you know how how myself how I feel and how you felt about this. I was kind of the whole so thing and they could have done something else instead of giving me by spos- agree being being allegience episode. They had to say oh you just what's remind mind you. This is a legend. I guess what we get Bebo and I was like what I mean. I hate to be so mean because I really love this guy. They're wondering you know upset any listeners. Businesses will make them think either. Love this stuff but I was ready kind of. I thought it was released. It was whether it's filler tracks on the album. That was my my thoughts but yes with it comes to dominic purcell. I mean I love the man to bits. He's always been my favorite legends and I was so glad he was there. Because you get so many chuck was he was the good good parts of the comedic. She we say parts that we got in this episode because Bebo we could have done without because done something else because it doesn't lead anywhere. That's that's what kinds of irradiated me. I love giant Bebo. But we didn't need to see giant Boeing this focus on the crisis. Well it's almost like they almost like. Yeah they were they were like. Hey we want everybody to get a good taste of legends. So they'll stick around for our season and I get as opposed to telling the crisis and I'm I'M GONNA I don't mean this in a bad way but I with you know. The rumor right back in. The day was when the Beatles recorded recorded albums like and we have to give Harrison George a song. You know it's like and George Harrison is a very talented songwriter. And you show all four of them. How successful they work? But it's the idea well to legend so we gotta do something silly elite instead of Okay let's just you because you had that in the vibe of the people well oil it's a crossover see you had that feel. You didn't need that nece necessarily I. I think yeah. And so and so so So we kind of pick back up with a crisis thing because hey turns out. Surprise the Anti Monitor's not dead after all and we kind of had to do our little mosh is to the crisis. Infant Earth number twelve. Cover where you had. All the superheros attacking the giant Anti Monitor. And so. That's what happens here. And you know. So he grows all giant norm giant-sized and There's a little bit of a throwdown. It's over pretty quickly as Ryan Choi. This is where Ryan finally steps up. He comes up with this plan. Like Hey we'll just shrink him into the Mike Reverse and that's how we'll deal with them because he'll be really really tiny and so the the plan goes off they are able trip down. Everything's good it's all done. John even with the shadow demons they go away. Everything's good and then we've kinda picked back up more with the after effects. Yeah so so. So so so this final climactic fight almost felt to me like an afterthought yeah I really right here with you. Yes Go L.. Had Net nick knight thoughts. Before we go to Jesse. If you gotta I would you know the word afterthought is the perfect word. It's Lhamo juiced juiced as the French would say because it is it is such an office. I mean supposed to this supposed to be like the the biggest by the ever lived. You know Brian Right dispatched like a bit of the week. You know it was just like what you building to destroy of world. What were you gonNA say Charles? Now I disagreeing with you. You know I mean this is like I said it's like the foul of DC also and yet he's he's they beat him so hello easily and it's like Yeah Ville the week raid. That's the VIBE. The I galt. And you'd think that the stakes would be a little bit high. Instead of everybody kind of rushing around him in kind of beating him and stuff you think they would take some sort of a beating yet. They don't just kind of Russia's saying what can we do. What can we do kind of thing? And you don't feel the the stakes are high. There's not really much tension even when they come up with with the bomb to To miniaturize and it just seems over just way too quickly. I just know energy as it were known sweepstakes that was my main gripe with this you just kind of going on that happened. Yeah exactly yeah and and and I don't know maybe it has been a long time since I've read crisis. So maybe that was supposed to happen. That they thought they defeated defeated him and then they didn't. That's what happened but it just once again. I don't think it would be better served if you take these is two episodes muster round where you get one final battle in episode five. They've like probably at the halfway point. You this massive battle you defeat him. You do the Shrink Ray. I mean who doesn't love Berry going. Okay here's the instructions like this. I guess that was great. And then you know okay. We've done that. Defeat them and then do you wrap up so I agree with you guys. I just don't think it was that it wasn't it. It doesn't flow as well and I think that's one of my. You know like we. We have oh we have to have two battles with the Anti Monitor and neither one of them. I thought were that impressive. Yeah and again. That's I think partially because it's a CW Arabic's budget so you're the candy. Ambition kind of exceeds the production capabilities. Ladies Charles for me character is what drives this thing and so there is a way to do this better. Yeah there are originally game of thrones was GonNa talk about they were Never GonNa show the battles so there is better writing you can do to you deal with your strengths and kind of downplay your challenges so figures figures crossed. HBO Does a crisis on Infinite series. Like they did watch there we go. Yes because that's that's the crisis that we all want need and deserve. I think amen all right all right. So let's see so we get more after-effects. The president addresses the nation does a nice little tribute to Oliver. So he's so he's publicly publicly redeemed in the eyes at last and I thought that was really. Well done I I was wondering who the actress was. I kept thinking this and and I had to look her up. She's she's been in a couple of things on nothing like it wasn't a cameo cameo she certainly could have been a cameo and I was kinda hoping that it would have been I would have liked to have some kind of cameo. I think that was a role that was dying for someone of significance to be the president would have been nice at least from my point maybe whatever scheduling didn't work out out so they gotta fill in actress. Yes she did a really good job as president so yeah that was very nice. Little touching We find out that the dig holes. I have two kids again. So Baby Sarah exists in this new New Earth Prime We have have lowest telling Clark to get home to their sons plural. And I'm kind of wondering what's up with that because we kind of figured. Well John Kent. The current super boy was one of them. So who's the other most so John is your bus. I would guess Jonathan Anything can't and then Jordan Jor el so we'll find we'll find Yes I and I wonder so. We have super sons. Oh yes which and I always. My mind goes to. How does that do that? How do you not remember? And then how do you remember that. And I can't remember what. Move Your what novel I wrote about. That said they explained that you you could remember both timelines kind of in your mind. Depending on which one you focused on and then sooner or later you just get used to the current currents You know story so John will always remember now that he has the two children that CAL will remember. They've got the two sons and so I'm excited because they weren't part of the One of the Paragon so ever as far as they're concerned this is all this is the way things have always been so then why I did because I think that was an error that that Lowest telling Superman and him seeing surprised by that I think that was an Arab because he wasn't one of the paragon remember so so so maybe that was like some of the rewrites. They didn't catch that. I'm guessing okay. All right and then and then we finally get this big nice little voice over from Oliver. Wear he's introducing explaining new multi verse and we. This is where we get to see all the new earth's and so we kinda focus. Now do the rundown here so we get we focus on earth to which is where star girl role so we have the justice society on Earth to at long last so they fix that problem. And that's obviously going to be explored on the star girl series. That's coming out so let me. There's not much to add but I just want to fan boy a minute. How cool was it to see the long shots of the different? You know the the the Justice Society character very well. We're GONNA see them on star girl too but how cool was that. It was like yeah. You may not be excited about star grow but You know it's got the JC. And I start. I think that gives me a reason to be excited because I'm a big Jay Z.. We we find out the titans are on earth nine so which is the they kind of establish that in part one but now they kind of reestablished apparently the green lanterns are now on earth twelve because we got a shot of Ohio. So I'm sure nick was pretty geeking out about out that I was so happy. And also have the guts to recognize the Green Lantern Film. Very do that. He actually used footage from in the film on the asset. So that was good Swamp thing turns out he's on Earth nineteen but hey is series cancelled so sex to be swamp thing Do Patrol they kind of established that the doom patrol and titans are now on separate earth so presumably. That's why I know in titans beast. Boy has his flashback. To the doom patrol we got to see the original Bruno by sheer chief as opposed to the Timothy Dalton. Chief so the so. There's there's a different doom patrol on earth nine apparently then on earth twenty one and then of course Earth Ninety six. We find out that hey brandon. routh Superman Is Back in this time. He his kingdom come. Superman has been redeemed. He's now rocking the red and yellow chest emblem as opposed to the red and in black. So that's kind of cool. And they did a wonderful. Oh my gosh to Christopher Reeve flying over the earth and and and resetting that so I thought that was nice. The only thing missing was him like a Lotta Times he would salute or something but yes the the ways. That was so smile. Did they play the John Williams Superman now the in my mind I heard it right. uh-huh maybe they did a little bit. Superman returns okay. Yes yes grand returns did react the at they reuse the William Score for that so all right In if we find that earth prime and on earth prime the heroes get together in very familiar hanger and save their final goodbye to Oliver and they have nice little Oliver Shrine. And he's got his glass costume in a glass case that that I'm sure Kate Kane. She looted the bat cave and got one of those glass cases that Bruce always has us for cost costumes for dead heroes and use that in a in an berry reveals. Hey we've got a table and this is a place where we can hang out out and and if there's ever another crisis like this and we even have a seat at the table for Green Arrow in a very retouching little tribute and What everybody thinks of that big moment kind of the they don't call the Justice League but essentially it's the first Justice League? So what did they make everybody make of that. Go ahead okay. I was going to be polite. I loved it Charles. Charles I mean it. All five hours are worse. All the things. I'm unhappy with to get that. Pay Off okay so even though there are things you didn't like and that was a good enough. Pay All the things that I really really liked. ACHED is I'm going why. This is the first time I watched it. I'm going. Why are they setting distribute attribute in this old abandoned warehouse? I I knew why yeah and I didn't and I'm like I watched the flash regularly like a like a religious i. Oh I do too but I mean I still like this just seems dumb and then to have Chris Williams Just his Chris. Chris Williams black lightning. He didn't get to do much during crisis but thankfully he's there he's gotta see at the table and hey he's got a TV show. So I love that scene where he just. I didn't know many. He silently kind of you know takes his fist. And pats you know Area on the shoulder like man. I got you man I got you and then the whole. How often does off good this? This happened like more than you think you know Kate doing. And I was the rookie last time. And to see all of them have their her chairs with their emblems and they're all included and And I and Sarah is there and you're like okay. Everyone has a place and Superman is just smiling being an thrill it just is a great so we have both Superman and super girl in this Justice League. Yeah and I I just loved it. I was so so so happy with it. I've gushed enough nick. Nick Nick how about you. What is your thoughts on this big moment? Well I have a lot to say about how this before. I do what they want to say. was I have a feeling that. They decided to cost. Eileen as the president because it was tied to Smallville because because she was Long Lang Stepmother in small bill. So I think that's why they chose or as good because of the absence. In absence of Tom. Welling and the other smallville highs I think they wanted someone from smallville Senate went with high suppose salons adoptive stepmother. Hamson that Said said I love this scene so much this is this is the scene. I think redeemed the episode. Fool me because I was kinda member. We will miss all waiting for us to kind auto get everybody together having sit at the table seeing all your heroes side by side kind of thing was beautiful and heck I gotta get myself one of those Chaz because because they ask they look gorgeous and actually pretty comfy too so I think I'm actually if they ever sell them I'm actually making because they're just beautiful and there was such a wonderful will hot will mean seen so absent this two bits all right all right and then I I thought it was great You know it's obviously this big moments it's Kinda Nice. You know I would have yes. It would have been nice if they had said okay. We're going to call ourselves the Justice League or something or at least we should show said he. You know we need name. Maybe maybe but hopefully we'll get that at some point You if not you know we don't but you know it's still. It was cool to see them there. I and I and I was glad that that you know we get to see you know characters like you know with white canary gets at the table. Even though she's usually travelling time cross this time with the legends and You know and and it was great having black lightning there and You know just it was just this great moment and then they go to the exterior and of course it looks a lot. Because that's star labs facility. There was the joke because it was like look a lot like super friends headquarters in the hall of Justice and so they start playing the super friends theme music and then they cut to and this is where. I thought they shouldn't have done this. They do this little nod to setting the table up revealing that. Oh you no I hear something. What is that in the roof or whatever and they hint that? Oh it's Khaliq balloon and I'm thinking and I'm thinking why did did you end with that. Yeah why didn't you just end with the table. And just pullback from that or you know with the exterior and then have this dramatic build up and in there but no because this is a legends episode we have to make it wacky and so they dig leak. I you know I had not thought about it being a legend episode. That's that's why they did that. I just thought it was a really bad decision I took away from the big moon. I agree with you. I thought and I really as you saw. Aw I'm applauding Charles's he's talking. I think I agree with you. If if we're rewriting often you know how much I love you I agree with you if you what would been perfect is you everyone swallow you cut to the outside you see. It's the super friends. It looks like friends and you hear Berry or Cara or someone say well. Are we going to call ourselves anything and then cut then if you wanted to play the Super Friends Music Music Yeah. I'm okay with that but you didn't need the silly joke about the space monkey. Yes you need that low nick. Any thoughts about glee. I agree with that too. I think bleak there was no point rating putting in but I suppose we as you guys were rightfully saying is alleged tomorrow episodes so they wanted to put in comedic elements. I mean heck. They could've done a captain America in this case and go what about justice boom and then you're kind of black green and credit right in all seated one of them is about to pronounce the Word Justice. And then you go you go to end credits that would Michael. How about and then cut to the cut to black? Yeah I think that would be much because like you said it ruined the perfect moments and own right. Pick on an epic notes. Don't give us the you can give us D.C. Another all the time. But this instance if I had been in the writer's room I would smack somebody and say no. We're not doing that. Take that off too. That's it's dumb. Take it off just end on a great strong note. Exactly that's me. That's what I would all right fair lines. I know we're running long so Everybody got any favorite lines. They want to talk about I just have a couple so go through both of them in that way you can go And just when the the MIC is at the book signing and who should I make this out to. I'm such a huge fan. Rebecca I mean what should I call you Rebecca's fine you know and then once again because I love Roy where are you from sparkles. Don't call me sparkles and this is black lightning. I'm from Free Lynn. Martin came and got him my head towed. y'All marsh marsh got in my head told your toge our all caught up. It's been a Weird Day and killer frost. That's an understatement. See There Chris enough of that so that it felt like a legends without having to do the extreme so those are the two I wrote that I just loved. Okay Nick and I'm going to couple that with once again with with Dominic going out against Bibo saying he ruined my book signing off. Ah those good just had me I was. I was just in stitches without well. That's that's probably that was the one that stood out most to be in this one anyway. That's that's great. That's great like when he went furball. I love that man. He's wonderful. Yeah yeah he's great dumper cells fantastic. I I like Sarah Talking With Rene Ramirez. You know while dog and Berry where Sarah's going how the hell did be bogut here and Rene Okay says isn't the more pressing question of why there is a giant Bebo walking down the street and Sarah says well this wouldn't be the first time it's a long story story and Berry says that's right. You know while he told us about the time you guys use those totems to turn yourself into a giant Bibo to fight a time demon and then Syra Kinda paused pause for a moment. Goes I guess. It's not a long story so I know that's a cliche. Yes but it always cracks me up when someone does that. And I'm sure there's a writer A A coach or a writer teacher that says do not go to that cliche. But when it's done right I just love that. That's a really long story blink. Okay maybe not that long. Yes Then Sarah Innate talking with Asia Where Sarah says? Yeah we've been busy. Saving multi-diverse goes you got Shanghaied into another crossover didn't you while in Sarah says Yeah Kinda in Asia goes WHOA WHOA. Did they kidnap. You and nate says this is a classical crossover move. We tell them we're too busy. They commit a felony guess and then of course Oliver Saying in the beginning there there was only one single black infinitude then the infinitude found release and then finally the darkness broke filling it with life with the multi-diverse every existence multiplied applied by the possibility by possibility and spread out before space and time an infinite measure civilizations rose and fell and rose again to cross realities grasping is being expanse life. A precious gift persevering in the face of every obstacle until finally the age of heroes was born. Love it nice night. Sorry I slip into that super friends theme music all right. I'm singing goes thank you for them. I think everybody missed my senior. been saying no no no my horrible saying all right so Everybody what you're ready for this one and Jesse I'M GONNA go with you. I this time so I like this a little bit more so I'm going to give it eight out of ten Superman Superman flyovers. Nice and Nick. How about you? I'm going to give this a seven out of ten justice. Chaz also we we cause you thought you said you didn't like it as much so discussing with US rating. I was going over the episode again again. I think maybe I was in the in in a bad mindset. I because of Bebo but now we talk you into it didn't we. Yeah exactly you're talking to tell you I cannot tell you nick. How often Charles's convince me either? Sometimes Times make me not like it as much usually. It's I like it more after talking to Charles. The man can sell ice to Eskimos. Yes okay so so what you're saying is I'm a used car sale now but I think also once again you can talking with folks in with you to particularly it you you kind of take the good with the baton so yes I mean I have to admit I was just going to a passing grade six hundred ten but thinking about the good stuff as well was over. Yeah I guess I can raise your raise up to that so yes head. Seven out of ten. It kind of sword stuck the landing they did they did with any of the. Do they set up the new circumstances. And we'll see how things payoff from all right so I and I give it eight out of ten new earth in the multi-diverse I so So we have a brand new multi verse and We'll see where it goes from here. All right all right so Fan of Fan Mail. Of course we don't have any because hey we've been kind of off and doing other stuff So let's talk about like If you WANNA reach us here at the Phantom Zone podcast We can reach us You can drop US line. FM Zone cast based on twitter. Or you can reach us on facebook fan of Zone podcast instagram at Phantom Zone podcast Please do that would be great. We'd love to hear from Um you got any thoughts about crisis and we'd love to hear from you on that Jesse. Where can they reach you any to us so you can hear me every week? Talk about doctor. Who with a certain charming coast? Charles skaggs where yes next up everywhere where we talk all about the doctor and the newest season you can hear us In the past we have If you're just finding the titans titans on DC universe direct We have tightened talk. Where Charles and I have covered both seasons the titans and the doom patrol and a certain guest star my friend? Dj Nick Joined US on a couple of for into yes indeed and then You can hear me talk music sick. And all things springsteen onset listening Bruce Bruce Springsteen podcast You can find twitter at Jesse Jackson. DFW Charles tells or no. Let's go nick I yeah. Let's let's go Katori guest host here so nick how about you. Where can they reach you onto webs? Thank you very much well when it comes to to me To about the musical stuff you'll fans of country music. You can find a whiskey in cigarettes. Show DOT com. That's that's why you can see you. Can this previous episodes we are we are radio. Show is every Sunday from eleven. Am to three PM Eastern Standard Time. So be sure to check out your fans a country if you know your fans of course. I'm I'm sure you are of superheroes and stuff this is out there. We also have the happiness dot Louis. podcast where we cover superhero movies from mobile. DC dacles image image at all and when it comes to that you can either go to Anka Dot FM slash happiness in documents to the previous episodes. All you can follow us on twitter at high Dhaka's installed or instagram on the index and of course facebook where we are on the happiness in darkness. What you chose well? Obviously everybody definitely check out happiness in darkness especially since Jesse Knight and to show up there from time to time like our upcoming of injuries. Discussion that we're doing on this coming week week. So as for me of course at Charles skaggs on twitter at trust gags on Instagram facebook course Charles skaggs inherited Ohio and my blog. Geeky things hot damn good coffee in hot. We're talking about all the stuff we talk about here on the fan zone. PODCAST all kinds of comic book. Sign News News my other podcast for Southgate Media Group including the forementioned next up everywhere. The doctor who podcast and Titan talk the titans podcast and also ghost with the twin peaks. PODCASTS DO is browse Friend of the show who also the wife of cards. Chris Brown's where we talk about all things twin peaks David Lynch et Cetera et Cetera. And everybody thank you so much for listening to our crisis discussion. We had a ball. It was very nice to have this part two on our first big one hundred seventy fifth episode of the Phantom Zone Jesse and I have. I have no idea where we're going to be doing next for the fan zone. We're kind of waiting. I know I sent this list to Jesse like all these cool shows coming up off like so if there's anything you WANNA talk about. I thought I'd throw that out there. We'll see what he nibbles on if any of them and if not you know We'll see you around we. Obviously we're going to be on. You know or other podcasts. Next up everywhere. We're GONNA tighten talk. We'll start back up with doom patrol when the doom patrol season two comes out and of course I'm on ghost would but injustice onset lasting bruce so in the meantime you can catch us there But hopefully we'll be back doing something in the Phantom Adams Zone sometime in the future but until then thank you everybody for listening We had a great year and great star. Twenty twenty and Just any final thoughts before we sign off. No I I agree You Know Nick. Thank you so much for joining us. That made it a wonderful. Yeah so much fun yes there is a lot of good. TV coming up in Twenty Twenty Charleston. I just have to determine what we want to watch and we're also discussing do we. Do We rebrand the show. So that it's a little bit easier for people to find So yeah we're coming up with a new or come up with a new show. Yeah so So yeah I mean there's I know I wanNA talk about star girl. We're GONNA have to talk about boy season to You know so I have not watched the umbrella academy first season. You have to do us good stuff for us to do that. We're going to look at down the road so please keep Keep subscribe to the feed. Keep following us on our social media's You know we you will be able to find us and we will let you know and and everybody Tell your friends and then the if not in the meantime you can go back and check back past episodes. Nick thank you again so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Hope you have fun. I had a blast as always thank you so much for having me guys. You know anytime. I'm you know I'm always up for anything when it comes to the two of you. So thank you so much and I will definitely echo your thoughts saying to. This is definitely check out. These two wonderful wonderful wonderful people Charleston Jesse passionate and they always do a wonderful job surf. You want a serious podcast with a lot of fun and a lot of hot check out these these two and everything they do because it Stephanie went through time it's hours of wonderful listening. Thank you take your check in the mail sir. Thank you again. Everybody for listening and we'll see you next time whenever that is right here on the fan zone podcast last goodbye everybody. Aw Aw aw.

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