I cant breathe. Again.


Before we start the show I want to tell you about a different show. You might enjoy Ted ex shorts hosted by a tow Celani Ted. Ex Shorts will immerse you in surprising. Knowledge fresh perspectives and moving stories from some of the most compelling Fedex community talks out there. Start each day with short eye-popping ideas on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you listen. Protesters Torching Minneapolis police precinct. While thousands took to the streets demanding justice for George Floyd A forty-six year old black man who died in police custody. I think what we saw here in the twin cities last night and yesterday and really all this week between the mayhem. The Malay the chaos standoff with police officers there was just this sense that the city was being overrun and was definitely scary for a lot of people block. Area that Morgan an IRA and right now is out of control for seeing demonstration in downtown that had been largely peaceful but quickly grew violent. I I was following the procession. There was a group that sort of splintered off at one point but then a series. A police cruisers swooped in and started pepper spraying the crowd to try to disperse them. And that's when things really started going a different direction. Gas Canisters now. The boys are deploying something right. There's milk being spread around. So that cared ass. I'm GonNa Stick this on Minneapolis. Police decided at some point to abandon the third precinct. They decided it was no longer safe for for. The officers are working. There is now a person who excuse me sir. There is now a person who is going and trying to get physically into the third precinct. There it was overrun People's set afire. And that's when the rest of the city started really going up flames as well as started spreading there are fires burning to the left of it at the Wide Liquor store ought communities burned down to the ground and deprived of resources like grocery stores. Pharmacies auto parts stores and things like that and communities that already struggled to attract economic development a local zone also was looted and then set on fire and autism was not alone meal. Text message from the station manager of a Spanish radio station here who who said the building. Their station is in completely burnt to the ground. And it's a historic building that had been a pillar in the community them. I'm going to be driving around town at age for closer. Look at all the damage but I was down in the longfellow neighborhood. Where where the third precinct burned down and I can't recognize that. The destruction devastation is really widespread and so it in parts of the city. It's GonNa take a long time to rebuild. I think Ricardo Lopez you're a senior reporter at the Minnesota reformer these protests were sparked after a police officer in Minneapolis killed. George Floyd an unarmed black man. Why were the police called in the first place George? Floyd was detained Monday night in south. Minneapolis over a call a forgery. This is the cell phone video from America's heartland that's inflaming passions across the country. It shows up and so for officers had arrested him and placed in handcuffs but the officer kneels on his neck and kept his neither for for several minutes. Even after floyd repeatedly said he couldn't breathe. You know this was all happening with multiple witnessed by standards who were pleading with the police to to let them up to let him go because he was struggling to breathe on the ground. Insane as much resisting arrest right now. Leading US fucking stopping breathing. Right now bro. You think that's cool that I think is what outrage a lot of people. This idea that you could have a man pleading for his life in the middle of daylight of a busy street and have multiple witnesses pleading for them to let them go that that really outrage people before the protests last night what was the reaction to this killing this tactic of a cop putting his knee on Floyd's neck. I think what is very interesting about this? Case is just the widespread in universal condemnation about the tactic shown. There I think police chiefs in cities all over the country have have already weighed in in in told even their officers that what they saw on video was was entirely wrong. I think I thought of what every good hardworking police officer quite. Frankly thanks and I was appalled as leaders in law enforcement when when we see something that we know in. Our hearts is wrong We can't remain silent and have any of the officers been arrested or charged as of just a few minutes ago getting getting notifications that Minneapolis. Police officer Dirk Shelvin. The one shown in the video kneeling. George Floyd snack has been taken into custody by by the Bureau of criminal apprehension. Good afternoon I'm Hennepin. County Attorney Mike Freeman. I'm here to announce that former. Minneapolis police officer. Derek Chavan has been charged with third degree murder. We are in the process of continuing to review the evidence. There may be subsequent charges later. And what about the other officers? Who were there when Torch Floyd was killed and didn't do anything to stop We're still waiting to hear what charges they might face you know. They've obviously been fired from their jobs. a few years ago. Minneapolis please enacted a reform. That calls for any officer. Who was witnessing a fellow officer using excessive force to intervene and if not they're just as culpable because Minneapolis. Pleased have said this week that all officers are expected to take a leadership role and so they should intervene. When they're seeing fellow officers use excessive force and obviously. This isn't the only time an unarmed black man has been killed by a police officer in the twin cities. How does this fit into the bigger picture in Minnesota? Well I think we can remember sort of the bigger I'm situations that have happened here in Minneapolis. In recent years you know going back to mark Clark and Philander Casteel and a lot of these underlying inequalities in equities have continued unaddressed Minnesota for for years and years. Obviously this is a place that see some of the widest gaps in income and held education in household wealth in home ownership in car ownership and health and education? I mean name any area in in Minnesota has one of the worst racial disparities and I think that this is a state that is that is very largely white. And it's just a very nice place to live if you're not black and that's the reality. I'm a person of color in the state and I have faced a number of incidents that I that I know are related to my race. But it's hard to escape the reality that Minnesota life is very different. If you're not white has the president weighed in at all. So president trump tweeted something that was immediately received very inflammatory by people who who especially his his language around. When the looting starts the shooting starts. And so you know the president's tweet last night did did little to to calm tensions here. I think in history of you've office looked to the leadership of the United States president to help quell unrest and and help try to heal the country. But I think that the tweet was was very poorly received. It took a dig at Minneapolis. Mayor Jacob Fry what was the There was an earlier one calling you. A radical left is a weak mayor which prompted a press conference by by the mayor who stood by himself as as he pushed back. Donald Trump's tweet weaknesses refusing to take responsibility for your own actions. Weakness is pointing your finger at somebody else. During a time of Crisis Donald Trump knows nothing about the strength of Minneapolis. We are strong as health. Is this a difficult time period? Yes but you'd better be damned sore. That were going to get through this like I said he said alone and looked pretty visibly tired and I think this morning you saw with the governor's address today. Essentially say the state is now the lead elements in keeping the city safe and the state safe to ensure that tonight our buildings do not burn. Our citizens are secure and that space that we're going to create allows us to get back to the conversation of serving justice in making sure that we're not adding to that list of unheard named This is very uncharted territory for Minnesota. The idea that entire police station were burned down at the ground is just something that had been until last night unbelievable inconceivable event but the state has a task force that has issued a number of recommendations around how to improve policing so. I think that unfortunately the death of George Floyd is going to provide a big reason why lawmakers should take a good hard look at these task force recommendations in go about implementing them. I think people are hopeful for long term. Change what that looks like. It's to artist at this point up. Next how Minneapolis has tried and struggled to reform. Its Police Department. I'm HASSENFELD FILLING IN FOR SEAN. 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Get Ten percent off your first month with Discount Code explained so why not get started today go to better help dot com slash explained. That's better H E L P dot com slash explained. Talk to a therapist online and get help. I'm musicologist nate. Sloan and I'm songwriter. Charlie harding and this week switched on pop. We finally meet our Muse unfairly. Yeah it was actually Carly Rae Jepsen. That inspired us to create our podcast and in our first conversation together we find out that she's one of the most prolific songwriters at the time. Emotion was ready. I had two hundred songs to select from and same with dedicated. My publisher says store songs and made sheets like a chipmunk from this treasure trove of song. She deliberately her albums like a musical private investigator with the balance of topic energy and style. The beautiful crazy mind you can tell from your laughter. This is a really fun episode. We breakdown songs from her acclaimed album dedicated and the recent besides released. That just came out. Subscribe to Fox's pop anywhere. You get your podcasts know Some Waksal bound. You wrote an article for the Marshall Project about how the Minneapolis Police Department has struggled to implement reforms. Well before George Floyd was killed. What reforms have they tried so I remember the days when. Minneapolis was considered an example of liberal police reform. They had police chief who is a woman who is openly gay very into working with academics on police reform and also invited. Doj to come in when she took over that in two thousand fifteen doj found That doorways to improve especially with police. Accountability was fixing their internal tracking system. Which FLAGS BACKUPS? And second was fixing something. They Call Coaching which seems pretty unique. Instead of disciplining all their officers with a long history of complaints they send them to classes on. Police policy called coach. What do we know about how effective that early warning system was the police officer? Who Killed George? Floyd ever have a warning against him. We don't know if he was ever flagged by the system. We do know that he had a long history of complaints or at least twelve that I found on city database that tracks police complaints. But we don't know if he was ever a disciplined or coached for it so to speak. I did speak to police accountability experts. Who worked with the city on implementing the recommendations from DOJ? They told me that has been stalled and a lot of pushback from the Advocacy community to start making those changes and because of the switch leadership they have a new police chief who was there during the a former persons tenure but those changes have not really been rolling out if these reforms aren't exactly working. Are there better ideas out there? I think it comes to culture and it's something that police departments are working. How do we change culture? So de-escalation classes is something that comes up a lot. Washington state recently implemented rules at all cops in Washington state. Nasty do de-escalation training every year. It's not just the policies like how do you change the hearts and minds and other than cops in departments have been doing is trying to change who they hire so instead of hiring this cop in the floyd case is an older white male who one could argue a cop's cop you have department saying no you WanNa hire bilingual. People people with tattoos young people people with graduate degrees. So there is this push in policing to say we'RE GONNA stop hiring. These sort of hyper masculine guys. And let's focus on people that better represent our community but that takes years and years to force change like that. Yeah and I guess you know. Reforms need to be put in place but also holding people accountable right. I mean this report from Minneapolis. From two thousand fifteen that you're talking about did put in this warning system and then there's just no way to know if it's working. I mean do we know if something like this is working anywhere around the country so there is a lot of work being done like. How do we hold them accountable? But cop police departments in a for not being transparent so someone like myself and other journalists accountability experts. We don't really know what goes into these tracking systems number two. They're not uniform. One City may track one thing. Another city may check another number. Three if you're flagged to Also varies from department to Department. So the issue with policing in this country is been for not a monolith. There's no one clear rule. There's no one clear best practice so once they could be working and across the line. It's failing you're saying that it's not a monolith yet we do have. The Department of Justice is the Department of Justice. Doing anything could could it do anything? There's this idea by the public that when you have DOJ come in. They're gonNA save the day I've written a lot about. Doj REFORM DOJ their police wing. If you will who works on reform police departments. It's a very small group of people who work in the Civil Rights Division. They don't have a lot of resources. They don't have a big team and it takes a lot of work to force a local police department to change so just because you call in and just because they order reforms doesn't mean they have the resources to force the police department to keep working on those reforms. So I it frustrates me when people say let's call him to you know city and state officials need to work on this issue. Stop outsourcing it to Washington. It's not work so if the Department of Justice can't solve this who can well as he pointed out in the story. My colleague on talk to Flanagan steals mother and he pointed out in his reporting the COP. Who Shot Flannel? Casteel did go through the court system. And Juries let it goes right. He was prosecuted. But so what so? That's another problem. Is that even if you have buy in from prosecutors and they're like yes we're going to indict this guy but this guy did was screwed up. Let's get let's get convicted. You have to have a group of citizens agree with that. And we've written about juries and bias. Do they believe the coffee? They don't believe the COP. I was surprised that flannel steel officer. Who took his life got off. I thought it was pretty clear. Cut with that guy did was wrong. So what is justice? In the sense of justice be more police reform which we don't know will work will justice. Be This cop is indicted and is charged is justice that they figure out a fair group of jurors to come in and decide whether or not this person should go to prison. And that's what we need to think about okay so the DOJ can't solve it and police departments can't solve it because they can't control juries. It sounds like it's almost an impossible problem right and another point on to my college miles wrote. He spoke to Keith. Ellison General of the State of Minnesota. And he actually was working on police reform and pushing legislators to vote to start making uniform. Laws across that state for de-escalation use a force training and other measures and he couldn't get legislation passed. So that's another problem might policy. This is so complicated right like it doesn't even matter. Like Minneapolis is a great example. They had police reform. Have a new attorney general. Keith Ellison a big player in the Democrat Party come in I WANNA make changes to the state. I'm the new Attorney General State. Lawmakers will screw. It's a white state eighty five percent so the people voting to make those changes also have to buy and they didn't do anything. Just don't really elements you know. I am a police ignorant. I've been writing about his longtime so I understand it but I think most people don't understand and it's so hard to change and yes burning down. The city is waking people up. But will that force policing to change? I mean we were down cities nine hundred sixty eight right after. Mlk was SAS needed and policing still pretty screwed up. So I don't know

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