Episode 144 :: Loch Kelly :: The Way of Effortless Mindfulness


you are listening to episode one forty four of present moment Fullest Revolutionary Guide for living an awakened life authors about their books and interests and we also speak with everyday practitioners the websites present moment mindfulness awareness around to the sides where my sound was coming and going and it almost felt as if my wariness went behind me and then as if psychically looking behind but then I after a couple of tries I literally relaxed like I was opening my peripheral vision awfulness practice for the first time may find it difficult maybe even exhausting work soon after the reasons not to meditate show hello and to say that I kind of stumbled into this field of being in the now most teachers about their newest findings published in peer reviewed science journals teachers about their understanding and methods as they work with students of mindfulness com has show notes for each episode along with Resource Materials Large Kelly joins us to speak about the way of effortless mind you do when you're driving a car so going from one pointed nece to kind of open and then somehow I just continued to open for a time where I actually heard as a fourteen year old on TV at sports caster said he's got eyes in the back of his head Oh and being in this world of mindfulness and a probably through sports I would say is probably if I look back I can remember but what if being present wasn't effort full but effort less and didn't require carving out additional time to work on IT dropped into my body and I was like wow okay oh this is how I feel when I'm in a flow state playing sports the toot our guest today is luck Kelly walk welcome to the podcast good to see you thanks to yeah great to be here again I'm glad I'm back in Kelly this leader in field of meditation and psychotherapy his author as award-winning shift into freedom and founder of the open hearted awareness in merrily the excuse of being too busy and perhaps when it's seen as taking an hour to out of your day to formally sit that might be true and talking about some new things together so this actually this is the new audience for you this is on present moment I know you and I have spoken oh I can intentionally do this rather than wait until it happens naturally and so I started kind of playing with this and one day and I kind of said he's got eyes in the back of his head I kind of know what he means but what does he really mean literally tried to I look from podcast that I do and wondering if you might take a few minutes and just introduce yourself to this audience whatever you feel is appropriate about your background just to fail I'm joy and happiness it's like related to meditation and so it really kind of took me early on into this world and said here kid read this and it was zen in the art of archery and so I thought Oh my God this is there's a group of people that can access this this is a real thing to learn about people value this it does you know they're saying it brings that was playing ice hockey goalie and kind of applying it one of the seniors on the ice hockey team heard me talking about it and threw me a book many people come to mind so amazing literally took me out of my adolescent chattering mind and self conscious worry and fear and as I think back I I kind of remember at one point being on a bus from school and thinking Oh this is what adults must talk about this into a feeling of wellbeing an embodiment and being in the now and just kind of being relaxed I'm at sixteen and then at seventeen during when I went to college doing a zen retreat and then my father developed brain cancer at eighteen right before I went to college and I was Kinda overweight old which kind of showed up naturally and I got to say it was delighted in reading the book to see a reference to hockey which I don't get to enjoy an owner must be like the secret thing and and as we all know this is not where the ducks talks and but it because so I kept you know I must say I kept this lot I kept coming back in different ways I ended up doing T. German I just heard a voice in my mind say I don't know if I can take this anymore and the interesting thing was I kind of ceramic way manage even opened up into this kind of big sky mind feeling this kind of open aware where present how did that grow in your life what happened next I think you know it it led me to really just be more open and it was funny acted and protected and you know I started laughing and crying and just feeling like Oh my God this is like home by grief there weren't a lot of other friends of mine who had gone through this my father then passed away soon after that looked up with my awareness if it was coming from the top of my head or Bob or something but what happened was my awareness opened up in this kind of and I was coming out of the library one night on a kind of a beautiful cold clear night and I was walking back to my door greater than myself that just felt like awareness or the world or universe or something that was subtle but opened me up and goodest direct path tradition and he was all excited and I put my hand up I said wow that was amazing who should I go study with Folkston mindfulness so from this early introduction in seeing that there was a different way of encountering the world's devout Rena w-we to be and let me be at the same time here more fully so that kind of led me to both interested in medicine and then he gave a talk about half an hour and then gave this short glimpse practice and within three minutes I felt I felt so weighted down so small solar wound and now there's this feeling of freedom and joy and and connection to something this and I felt like you know connected to everything in the universe that I felt like this burden lifted and I felt kind of Aw where I did nine months doing ten day retreats and twenty one day retreats and Inva- Pasadena Insight Meditation Nation in psychology and neuroscience and led me to graduate school and those kind of areas and then I won a fellowship to go to Sri Lanka the same way I felt at the end of a long meditation retreat except my eyes were open and I was not just calm but I was joined heartless awareness we can be mindful from there rather than from a com- attentional position or even kind of who the Dalai Lama who had just come back from France where he had a given his first talk on section which is Tibetan listen here and now so I immediately was curious about what is this and and what just happened kind of hidden by this habit of orienting to fought and creating a point of view that is referencing way to let go open or discover or immediately recognize realize this awful story in for folks who are curious about the book there are some interesting background that's included in that but I'd like to to jump forward into the from what listeners may have encountered elsewhere shore so it you know effortless mindfulness is is pretty much what I just described the premise is there's another dimension of consciousness that's already effortlessly aware that that there's already a kind of effortless ease that is not just passive but actually is a awake spacious on fought going to another thought and then going to emotion and then going to body and then creating this separate sense of self and that when we find started and associated with sitting still or closing is or retreating but awakening which is what effortless have moments or afternoons or days of this so it's it's interesting often meditation is detached mindful witness so literally is like a third type of mindfulness from a different level of mine so this so the foundations are kind of the movements of awareness but certainly just a start for those who are listening with the first one is the in a wakened life has to be because you can't just well you could stay in a cave or or monastery but it's interesting that effortless mindfulness this is done by small glimpses with is open many times during your day and then going immediately back in activity so that's the first kind of movement is rather than setting yourself apart calming and quieting retreating us and that most of us do what we love to do in our free time in order to actually Terada tradition and then what I did is I went up north to India and actually bumped into to open the awareness to discover that there's already an spacious awareness that's already installed closing your eyes you literally learn to open your awareness rather than concentrated in one point services about is about a open I'd engaged direct connection with others in the world and it's eight or what athletes call being the zone so you literally are not withdrawn and passive as some people feel is kind of the caricature of people who meditate a lot it's like sitting back and saying like would you like some tea and they say all tiers it's the same anything we'll be fine those no problem with anything that serious representation I get into discussions it off I went to Nepal and walked up this mountain to this little Hut Nugget Gumbo little area he lived in in this podcast you're aware arguments sometimes with folks who characterize contemporary mindfulness teaching is being very love effortless is our let's not look at the content let's look at the content let's turn to see what's behind the camera let's look Brooke Way of effortless mindfulness and talk a little bit about what this is what do you mean by Beffa Tlass mindfulness and how that's distinct they described Further this movement of effortless mindfulness yes yes so so then after opening awareness concentration it starts with opening and it doesn't focus on the contents of consciousness which is what four foundations of mindfulness star within you that you can be aware from there and then respond and then it's almost like being in a flow state and relieve you of that I sense that you're a solid self made out of thoughts but then the really the magic move or the first movie new spacious awareness which has been kind of a identified or attached with in contents isn't attention is based on a few different foundations. I think you articulate five in the book and if he can say a little bit about those foundations spacious dimension that you could say is wider or more vast but really in some ways it's really more subtle mongering of what mindfulness is is you're describing yeah yeah so the effortless one of the unique things as it doesn't start with pleasant and unpleasant and then mind objects so you're looking from a mindful meditation at contents coming and going which pure awareness that feels like it has no bound boundary and yet it's here and now because it's within local awareness that can move itself it's an already awake dimension of who we are that returns to kind of more and he said well actually there's one person in the Pol his name is Taco Ergen remember Shea and so I changed my plans jumped on a bus and a train almost like the space within all atoms so it literally is awake you could say the metaphor would be the quantum field the medicare open up to see who's aware of what's coming and going and literally that changes the whole game so that awareness of awareness is the first of the what I call the five foundations of effortless might see a little bit more about some other as well as equally around and interconnected and then what you realize is oh I'm not aware of that immediately and it's it's a kind of learning of a feel of how to do this because what I call local awareness which returns honest somehow this awareness aware by itself as itself of itself and so that's kind of that little surrender it by focusing first on the breath as kind of one point in this concentration but then trots since ations feelings because then itself is a fundamental shift hell mindfulness is taught a little bit more about some of the other foundations how they energy thought sound is something that's moving through so you'll hear people in in meditation states then it isn't the doer doing it it isn't the ego doing it isn't the meditate or doing it literally as a kind of free old from which particles waves appear so he goes so subtle that you're before thought and concept and there's this alert earnest and then is just a moment or minutes or a little time where it's almost like a clique oh it's aware it's describe it's a moving in it's opening it's active in engaged not navel-gazing there the evidence free as the awareness you start to feel directly no directly Oh this movement of sensation is made Oh surrender what surrenders to what so what this is is this local awareness surrenders to the already awake spacious like choice less awareness or big sky mind they'll say well I'm the sky and thoughts feelings sensations are moving and going INSCI- I'm Ted Meissner present moment is podcast with interviews conversations and roundtable discussions we speak with mind and then the next movement is is kind of the non dual move from the Buddhist perspective which is kind of different than doubt or in this way of moving through these five foundations of effortless. Mindfulness you're coming back home and at that or letting go or turning over that you hear so much in advance spiritual practices what does that mean turn it over it's sometimes talked about as non to awareness as if it's pure awareness but the non dual from Buddhism is there's an ultimate reality and a relative there and then you're aware from from there it's like oh it's bigger than me Oh it's essentially who I am withdrawn and self focused in on like have you have you attended any classes from ever spoken with on these podcasts on myself because it says thing that exists apart from anything else everything's interdependent therefore interconnected therefore emptiness awareness this movement of thought is not a second thing it's a it's a particle or wave made of the awareness and so has already been aware there's a dimension that's where so there's the effortless dimension that oh I'm not doing that it doesn't need my help to be aware through like birds or clouds so that's a meditation state that's Kinda highest deliberate. Mindfulness state and this move is literally doesn't mean void it means that literally this feeling of non duality that you feel like oh everything's interconnected in some ways that's actually what emptiness means am danced in one sense means there's no separate independent and I'm aware here and everywhere and embodied but embodied means kind of connected to everybody now you're you have this other insights now you as you feel they're not separate thoughts feelings Asian now you're doing a kind of insight yeah it doesn't necessarily have to mean this fathom long body that's right exactly and yet you're not you're not space AALTO and they're not to their non dual so from the pure awareness there's a curiosity of waiting to see whether the first movement part of me they're not not me but they're not forming into a small managing south so that's the big difference realized oh coming and going meaning they're dancing and they're not only they're not me but they are part of me so all of a sudden you start to realize is by developing and creating and and building something some set of skills or knowledge interconnected alive awake being you know sense of true nature there's a natural discovery oh the there's an effortlessness that is already the foundation of where I'm aware from I don't have to constantly trade or be distracted there's something that is aware and kind of the relative distracted mind can be distracted actually pretty much yeah follows just on what you were talking about Ted is about that kind of efforting or trying to sustain a meditation state or Mary Imagine this this perspective shift from either a meditative state is something to achieve even meditation seems to be presented that way as well you do this you do that don't do this don't do that and then it leads to a letting go and the of content there was something and you've mentioned this already as we've been having a discussion glimpses yes that's a fundamental or progress to be made something that one needs to develop skill at the there's a fundamental difference with the the concept that having to effortlessly don't move or that a glimpse is a way of shifting out of the current constellation of conscience and you're not passively in a big sky mind where you're kind of watching from a no self you're literally feeling in a bad itself imagine has an influence on how your students would receive this I'm curious how does that go do you see separable from yeah beautiful yes exactly so it's often a surprise because pretty much the way we learn most things oh you're aware of it because what was the subject is now the object the that viewer that manager that thought based to it and considered part of Hawaii and wondering if we might talk a little bit more about some of the contents of the book itself business using awareness as the glimpse her or as the tuner so awareness can open out or drop within structural feature of the book I wonder if you might say a little bit about that and maybe what some examples of the glimpses our book yeah and it's best flavor of kind of like a ocean of awareness arising as you this wave that feels like yeah I'm this way what's the big deal it's kind of it's actually a shift of identity shift of mind shift of of not knowing the gap of space not conceptual and then right into the new Not knowing that knows of effortless mindfulness is you don't deconstruct slowly you literally go from separate sense of south to the again and moved from head to heart space or from a small fathom links body too leave mouths things you know in the good sense as well as you know in a kind of addictive cents on one on one level but even just like learning how to read or write or which is the awareness based clarity the just basically alert and aware without orienting to thought awareness into a kind of true nature or you know for a moment or a minute so the reason it's a glimpse is because I think therefore I am part of me is now part of a the insight from effortless mindfulness which is connected space or in the room and then be aware of this interconnected space and so a glimpse is not a meditation state has the other habit is still strong and when you shift in then the key is not to hold on or not to go back to no this is all this is always here it's got a tuning into that it's not having to create this or and then you start to realize that it's interconnected and then you can learn to move and talk and walk just like a Oh state it's actually your optimal mind it's not a it's not going back to a baby consciousness and it's not a detached the mind for a second opinion about whether you're there because soon as you do that you're back in the other what I call operating system one separated nor glimpsing method to introduce you so it is you know upgrading or letting go of the old witness where you're disembodied very connected and engaged yeah one of the interesting things sometimes in working with students often the shift from a been striving towards this end this goal is like it's not like that in fact it has always been able to tap into because it's it's like but then it's like not a lot of bells and whistles initially or fireworks it's literally literally relief of suffering and kind of an open you know a real feeling of dimensional openness like literally like well what do you notice has to start with that glimpsing you know the first challenge is that this is kind of an advanced form of mindfulness in the Tibetan tradition I just feel so open so spacious oh interconnected so something feels that there's you usually start with deliberate mindfulness and then learn effortless mindfulness either shows up by itself or there's a kind of pointing out instruction really receiving here right now not in a separate way because there's always the oh it's I have to add additional time to do daddy one you've really self recreated the lower so there's a kind of a not knowing but then the key in this kind of where you shift shift on the subways of New York City or at work just look over your computer or look out the window way of knowing into the new way which seems at first a little there's like an old orientation then there's a disorientation than go for a walk to the water cooler outside and once you learn these that feel of Mu of business in a way that it just takes minutes and then it's completely different and then learning to to then start to talk and walk Oh that's just my rest now I have to go back top rating from small ego centred itself and I'll remember this is getting passed this idea that we're trying to stop thinking that may happen but that's really not a a goal we're going for and in really tricky for folks rapper ads are on that's not typically the the way we've been trained over the course of a lifetime so I'm curious lock in working his protective parts and tries to kind of fight it off so it's a willingness to have some consistency and yet a good time and I'll do it later come back come back or if I'm doing long meditation retreat all well next year I'll make my vacations uh not a limited self trying to fix everything and so then certainly the not making that into a meditation state as if the students what do the challenges you run into what do you see a lot of and how do you meet those sure yeah yeah and so you know doing these small glimpses even with these great benefit it just still the current operating system resists change in it's really and so it's quite remarkable and and again it's not something where you need to add additional time for an hour but it doesn't take that long and it's not that hard once you learn the principles and it takes you directly into away consciousness so that one you just back in the soup again the threat and wondering like if you have any recommendations for people who might feel stuck in so I'll have people walking off the street in an hour and a half and about eight out of ten people will say Oh my God I didn't know this was possible Dell's different traditions match well with different people so you know everyone should find something that matches even if you've started a new orientation and the new orientation is sometimes like what is that should have been the very like any habit initially you know like any good habit even like eating well going to jam to experience this which I only experience when I rock climbing once a year or something like that a certain tradition of it's not your thing if it's not working you know check out some of these people of integrity who have other body and mind and then this particular method is if you feel stuck I find that it's very good for people who find a hard time concentrating because you don't have to concentrate so often people who've just are not a good match for watcher breath watch your breath something that you have some thoughts on yes I mean you know just to say that you know there's different types of people and different meditation styles you may already separating it the rest of your life this isn't a separation this is in this is moving close to and zinc for many years and then feel like well I you know I liked us I'm distressed I feel good but what's next so this is kind of traditionally not been brought out it's really only in the past twenty years from the Tibetan tradition that the texts and the teachers have been attacked earnest moving itself from its identification or attachment to it subtler dimension you start to you know almost navigate your own you know friends through other friends of yours or you know what will work for you some people need to start with their body and move through yoga formal meditation to what is here in life it doesn't it's not to say you shouldn't do that that's great that can be very helpful that's mm text except not when you're driving but and then trying to be willing to the new normal you know and then it's also a great effortless mindfulness great for people Ben Doing deliberate and have been practice title and then they can shift and others like to do a reading I or something start with their mind others sound like own oray eating open from the rest of your life it's not in fact if that's what you do anyone trotting it out from a tool kit and then putting it away when I got through vibration of so whatever that door those doors are of find your preliminary practice to calm your in Tibetan direct practice traditions of effortless mindfulness from this Sutra Mahmoud era tradition which is actually a pre had a done what Jack Joseph and Sharon Salzberg have done in that I've taken kind of some of the getting quoting the book and what what because it's it's it's like the initial freedom there's a relief and filled in some of the gaps of the practices made them more accessible found ways to use learning styles to get the same point across the busy now we'll get to it so the glimpsing practice literally is the small glimpses of one minute to five minutes all to connect with them in ways that new interpretations that are more of a match for my cultural history the opposite is recognizing that I at least and am not from a culture that this is rooted in and unable lable and giving it out to Westerners and those of us who had the good fortune to meet some of these masters in practice and then I see in these glimpses of for auditory people to forbid people for kinesthetic people I'll do the same pointer in and what's true and precious and keep checking it out and respecting the lineages and tradition but as I say I'm from the human being lineage who Japan China and Japan than it changed when it went to north India and Tibet and then within Tibet you know they appropriated it into a clear understanding that the themes route that people need this practice in different places we don't resonate with the same kinds of practices their practice you've been talking about is really a very fundamental shift in perspective that help in this invitation wandering way and is there another way to get to the same place or is there something missing in the gap of the pointers that is why people are missing prince styles and it it's been said in even in the Tibetan tradition that this is kind of one of the best things for West what your graph then you can say don't watch breath open to the awareness that's aware of your body and the breath that's happening and it's like Oh my God different lineages so it's been changing it's been adapting it's been so why not continue to find the jewel and

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