571: Supergirl S4E21 Review: "Red Dawn"
Thanks. Welcome to the super girl, super cast a part of the comparable network of podcasts. I'm Tricia Mattson. And I'm David Shaw, and I'm Deanna Chapman, and we are going to be discussing season, four episode twenty one of supergirl red dawn of leave the penultimate episode. David, can you give us the recap Alec Stewart's? Remembering cars at entity after falling asleep Netflixing with Kelly car isn't captured long before red attacks her, but Kara escapes, the show redefines triangulate defined reds home Alex's mum calls and is now reds hostage. Supergirl fights, red and gets killed. Luckily, supergirl leeches, the forest plants to reanimate herself. Also, Alex, remember supergirl is Lena buys a prison so she can burrow Lillian to extract our now, from James after poisons and truths Lillian agrees to help Jimmy. But for now. They'll just pump him up with more hornell Lena and James look for lex while following Ben Ben finds out that he's just Lexus pawn, and then kills Otis before. James Lena can get answers brainy dreamer and John look for missing aliens. They look gambit their way into being captured unfortunately brains torture reboots into an emotionless state. He sends dreamer John off to get transmitted to who knows where. Oh, and lex is apparently killed red and fought off the cabins. A lot happened to yes, quite a lot happen. I was not expecting them to introduce a new super villain at this point. Brainy becoming brainiac five. It's a good question as to what that's going to be because they could make him a bad guy for one more episode, and then they help them or they can make having him, get better part of next season, or they can have him be the big Batty for next season. Lots of options. I think that is one thing that they might leave us off with a cliffhanger for it in the next episode because there are so many other things that they have to wrap up. I feel like with the season and with one episode left, you know, based on everything that happened in this episode they still have a lot to do superhero needs to recover red daughters out for the count right now. And I don't really know how they are going to pack everything into a finale. Without leaving a few things as loose ends to pick up in season five which will have a lot to do to because of what events leading up to. I was going to say that noth- very much got sorted out in this episode. But that's not really true. For the most part, all the changes is Alex remembering who super is so that loose end is now finally done, but then they have this thing's starting in the penultimate, episode of brainy becoming bringing five and just adding one more loose end to sorta in the last episode. But then I remember at the very end of the episode, they do clear off an enormous amount of plots, if they actually are saying, rids been killed, and all the cabins have been defeated and all of that is gone, which I was going are you really wrapping up that quickly? Yeah. I was shocked that they did. Well, I don't know if red is really dead or not. But it does seem that the. Crasner invasion which we were all wondering how they could handle in, you know, just the last couple of episodes. So they did it off scream. Entirely offscreen that really cheap way of doing it. Yes. And yes, it's very hard apparently to keep a super girl dead. Who knows what red state actually, as I certainly hope she's not dead. That would be so sad to take that character and dual that work with her and just have killed off screen, I find it very hard to believe that they would throw away all that character building like that. All the unresolved loose threads, slick Mickael and, you know, the basic realization that to that red parents still has to make that, you know, when she when she came to life saying the word Alex, she was not talking about, lex Luther she was talking about our Alex danvers. Yes. So that would be extremely disappointing if that were it, although I guess, maybe she could be in cold storage, and we wouldn't see her again until next season sometime. Well, if she's not dead. She certainly knows that she was betrayed now. Yeah. One would hope that would be more obvious to her. Yeah. Even if lex didn't tell her what was going on even if he had her somewhere watching. She knows that the crows Nian invasion, was all just a big setup for lex to make himself a hero. It's unclear to me of him making himself, a hero that way really does much good in the public's eye. Does that really make lex? Now, a good guy. This plan is just weak. Well, the thing is, if there had been a bigger buildup for the custody, invasion and Americans were worried about being invaded and stuff that would be more effective for whoever ends the invasion to become a hero. But for it to be the same news bite that, by the way, this little country with invading us. Oh, by the way, lex Luther lead. Notorious criminal mastermind saved us. I don't think it's going to have the same impact in the American, I it's not the fear that everyone's been fearing all season right? I feel like the general public would have to consist of a lot of eve Tesna cours for them to really believe that lex is a good guy. Well to be fair, the general public does probably contain a lot of eve test markers these days. True. So many all of them. So we walk through the episode a little bit. Yeah. Let's do that to Alex is telling Kelly that she dreamed of her sister who was adopted and she says it's weird the last time she felt like this. She was being questioned at the DEA. So Alex, if we're going chronologically do you want to go scene by scene? We don't need to go that level of detail. I think it is. Nice seeing the teen car and Alex again, I think these two actors do a really good job with the two characters. It is a believable thing that we're seeing we saw them in the past episode before, and we're seeing them again now but we know is the past because they're carrying on an ipod. So they've made it very clear. I think they did a fair job of chatting and yet being the same characters. So that was a setup for later memories. But going next we pick up the thread with. Oh, yeah. The president Ted reporter Curragh danvers black bagged, and she is taken to some room and an agent is questioning her and she's saying you can't do this. This is America. And besides kept copies, despite telling the president that I didn't keep any Cuffy's. But it does her no good. Because the. They say that they scrubbed the cat coast. Servers hope that means they just took those files out and didn't entirely crash all of cat co you never know. But. Never know. Anyway. Corre breaks loose, and then read daughter in a brunette wig for some reason, opens up a briefcase full of kryptonite and Correia is down for the count the Buna it wig. I liked I still quite like the acting for red. I still think using kryptonite is a bit questionable when it affects both of them. If perhaps not equally bad weapon of choice at the same time, though, what else is she going to use then you should send someone else? Crippen. Yeah. I wonder if Lexus aware that this is going on, because you'd think that looks would have figured out some other way to do that. I think Lek center. Okay. I was just wondering, because red daughter has so much unresolved stuff with supergirl. And she does I quite liked the reverse on the villain monologue where Cora is trying to emphasize that they share blood and jeans. And a red daughter says I see this is the part will you say, we are not so different. You and I. So I, I liked her balancing that back onto our that was fun. Anyway. She rejects cores assertion that Lexus evil. Licks just did what he had to do to protect the world and reducer, you know, why don't you just kill me since Kara Henrik daughter says, I want you to admit that you were wrong and America is corrupt, and then Kara has her hero moment, where yes, she's sitting there with a lump of glowing green kryptonite in her left, but she says she's been learning how to you know, she's been minist- with kryptonite for fifteen years, and, you know, so she is able to overcome this send away. I'm pretty sure we've seen every single occurrence that cars actually had to fit after tonight. It's not been that many. It's not like people walk around the town kryptonite on their backs all this high on making your feel week. I don't know. I like the scene. It is a good hero moment. And it does make some sense. The car at least has some experience sort of fighting off the effects of kryptonite it still works. And she doesn't try to do a lot just tries to escape and that's fine. Right. I approved of her just escaping on regrouping. So she goes to John Jones says that, you know, lex wants me dead to Alex's endanger. So have to tell her about my secret identity after all, John, John says you can't I closed off the neural pathways and she's already healed from that. And you know, telling her, we'll just traumatize earlier. And maybe give us flip personality, blah, blah, blah was this scene needed at all? It wasn't actually had the thought when he said, maybe if she dreams it a remembers it on her own, and I was thinking, hey, this would be a really cool way to go back to dreamer using dream powers instead of channeling it into neural whips or whatever, because, you know, maybe dreamer could help Alex. With her dreams and help her remember stuff somehow. But no, they completely dropped that and didn't do anything with it. I would say that was probably the most unnecessary scene in this episode. And you know there weren't too many unnecessary seen. So that's not necessarily a big knock on this episode because I actually enjoyed this quite a bit. But it was just like wait. We just see Alex starting to figure things out, you know, like, do we need to be told this? It almost feels like a continuity air. They're telling us about this after they've already introduced it happening as we've already seen that. It's okay later on. We're gonna get to more continuity auditees in this episode. I quit like this episode a lot more than the last episode agreed. But the ordering of some of the activities seem a little strange going to another unnecessary scene, where Lena hood bought in prison, as you say. Great, great public private prison. Partnerships. See, so that she could get Lena to surrogate Liliam to fix James and maybe been Lockwood to for her. We didn't really need this in that. I'm sure Lena. Could've whipped it up. Whipped up the cure herself. And I'm very frustrated that they said that lex could do it, but Lena couldn't for some mental block reason, or something like that. But I did enjoy as always the interplay between Lillian and Lena, Lena puts a truth seeker Ilian thing on her so that she has to tell the truth, and Lillian finally admits that she loves Lena. Meanwhile, Lena who is not taken a truth seeker. Anything tells Lillian that she's injected her with a neuro toxin, and unless she does will enough to get the antidote. She'll die. Oh. And at the end of Lillian says, oh, I know you didn't really give me a neuro toxin and Lena's Trink this, you'd better drink this. She gave her the neuro toxin. So even though I don't like d you know, lowering Lena's capabilities, she should have been able to fix this on our own even though that I still just enjoyed having Lena back for a guest appearance. I mean having Lillian back, having Lillian back was worth, even though I do agree with you. That having Lena fail at this is kind of necessary. My favorite line was leeann screaming out couldn't you just waterboard. Me like a normal person. Normal. I like the fact the show is going to have Lillian love her. Even if it is, her somewhat warped view of love. Yeah, exactly. She might actually mean it, but it might not mean the same thing for normal people if she thinks normal people waterboard. People. My challenge with the scene is going back to the ordering of it. Because at this point is there actually any evidence that the Har Nell is bad for James. I'm not entirely sure. I mean he's been having flashbacks but he'll in pain, but that could just as well. Just be from the mental trauma that he's head. I got the impression that after the mind palace work he had kind of stabilized with our Nell, and they hadn't decided until this episode that Ono Harno is actually going to probably eat Ben James up, and they're going to have to extract them, but I don't know if they actually give the impression about that earlier before it was, like, maybe James is going to be powered ongoing, and I was like, well, okay, maybe they'll have to rule that back. I think they did a better job of showing how it was affecting Ben negatively than they did with James, and I don't know if that's just because, you know, James is a bigger guy. So maybe it didn't hit him the same way at hit Ben. But yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, do you really know what you're doing with any of this stuff, Welby known Lillian should James got some kind of refined? Version of the Heron hill, and Ben just straight up original fuel formula or whatever. But just seems strange to me that there was this assumption of needing to do it. And at the end of the episode, we get that, yes. Something is going to be needed. There wasn't really any evidence of at the point where Lena was like getting lily and just seem to strange. Yeah. It was James may be still getting those like nasty headaches seemed to be getting. I don't think we saw them. Okay. I have no idea then. So Lena for some reason, confronts been Lockwood on her own and till him about the president working with licks and you know, she's trying to get bin to tell her about lex and lex, I mean been saying, I don't know anything about this. What are you talking about? But she convinces him that yes he's been working for lex all along. And he he denies it, but then she seals season burning Roper out of the parking lot. And she and James, follow him, it was curious to me. Why James just stayed in the car if he was there. It's like why would you let go up to this crazy guy by yourself? Yeah. Crazy superpower guy even worse now maybe having James around another superpower guy would make it more likely that there would be a fight with bin, but then is just, you know wrapped too loose. Around the handle these days, I would not, you know, I don't think Lena should've met her life on. Going up to talk to me. Yeah, it worked out. Okay. I guess. All by Lena was judging the risks and made the call. Good point. Okay. Okay. And I think we get onto John and Brian dreamer. So many things I enjoyed brains knife to in saying that, you know, I have to tell her how I love tell her that I love her because if I tell her that I love her then that will relieve the pressure and I'll be able to get back to normal functioning. Even better as the next line is I need to get this out of my system before all the punching and exploding starts. Some great logic right there. Fortunately, the logic just gets worse. And then it gets emotionless the plan of the Wookey gambit, which is a fine, fine phrase, and it's funny having this interplay about Star Wars. It's all fine. Having John there to do the Wookey Gamba was a bad idea. But having the dependency on the imaging do sir for the rookie camp. It was obviously going to fail right? It was a terrible terrible. The DO and the agents of liberty everybody knows about image inducers. They, they, it's been a major plot point for months. It's disappointing that they tried such a stupid version of the plan. Yeah. So they get caught. Of course, of course, won't be any fun if they didn't brainy dream or do do because they had the said, no, we're not going to do that. And John went off to scout. And then NIA saw the little girl from her dream, and they decided for some reason that, that meant they had to go right in right than in there without consulting. John on it. Which still makes no sense. None of it. Oh. So they, they separate brainy. Andrea Mer and put rainy in a chair. And I think they're doing a combination of electrical shock and, and just, you know, punching him in the head knock something loose knocked. Looses ancestoral. Either evil overlord racial memories or something. And then he I don't know if he kills everyone or just knocks everyone in conscious. But I was watching carefully the second time as think he picked up a gun at some point hit someone with it. So for whatever reason they didn't have him kill anyone. I mean maybe they're being put into comas and they know wake up, but who knows that's normal, right? I mean you hit somebody in the head with a foot long wrench. Exactly. I think they decided to not have him. Kill me. One might just be the show style. But it's unclear whether Bruni act now that he's sort of kicked back to being a more true, emotionless Bernie MAC, five instead of brainy whether he's a bad person, or just an immoral person, and we don't quite know the motivation versus his style yet. True. But if he doesn't have motions in loyalties, I'm not sure even if he is still on team, protect alliens side who knows how long he will stay there, if they could do anything with brainiac five they want to now. Yeah, I did like say a Jones comes in and says, what happened and Verney says I am pre. Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, okay was this, a full system reboot? Was it just a hard reset, like, in terms of just, you know, like resetting your phone or computers? It's like okay, how much of the brainy that we've come to know, over these last, however many episodes that he has been in is still there. Or is it just everything is completely wiped, and it's just all of the history that he has because he remembers everything. But if he remembers everything you think he would remember all of the stuff that happened before the reboot. My impression was they just turned off his emotions and freed up his full powers, and that was it like I was wondering is he actually going to be a true brainiac, and he's going to just try and eat the planet or something like that. I don't know if that's where it is, or if he's going to now try and contact his home world in the past which could involve brainiac coming meditating earth. If he does that, which they could do that, if they want it. So this lots of options, I under the impression that this is still bringing his brain. It's just has his emotions turned off. Got it. And maybe morals. Yeah. So maybe they flipped a couple switches. But that's it. Yeah. That was my impression make sense. It's a really a surprise raising the stakes though for the penultimate episode. Yeah. Definitely. It worked. It was scary. It was creepy. It it was creepy. I was always, you know, interested in excited when I realized what they were doing with it. I just don't know whether they're, you know, how much of a plot point it's going to be the season or whether it will continue into the next so NextWave Cora. Alex and Haley tracking red daughter. She's been busy. Super Bowl went to the DO, and then they met up with Alex aunt Healy, but everyone seemed to be on side with actually working together on this, because really Lexus obviously the problem. And this is also where they do a couple things that blew my mind, was the used Super Bowl solar power signature as a way of tracking where red is Ben right point? I'm super confused because I'm pretty sure that'll point to absolutely every place. The car has been constantly. And the ignore that entirely. Maybe they'll bring that up next episode or next season, but what in the world of doing, and if DO can do that, why didn't they track down? You know, publican to me number one supergirl before with that will they had her on a machine for a while. So they probably needed or around in order to record, what that signature looked like in order to track it. Yeah. They needed super goal to help do that. But they're looking at historic information, though, which still should show up as much of where cargoes as to a red goes, they then talk about like these hits that have been going on taking the designers of the satellite weapon, and they're triangulated that to find her address. And at that point, I'm going, what's going on here. Science. That's not science. That's the writers didn't know what else to do here. So they just use the word triangulation law. Something anyway, supergirl flies off. Alex goes to reducers apartment and realizes that she's been sort of stalking Kara and freaks out. She likes to freak out about people finding out her entity. She doesn't every episode now. So anyway supergirl confronting red daughter. Asks red daughter about Mickael, which, I don't remember how Curragh ever heard of Mikhail whatever, I'll be found the diary at reds this, right? That's right. The divers picture. So she's had a bunch more information about that which could then bring up, but she only add like haffey information, right? Right. So red otr is, of course, infuriated by this and says that the Americans killed Mickael and a fight flight and. While while they are fighting and Currah is losing Alex is on her motorcycle, trying to get to the fight and Currah loses. And in fact, looks not only unconscious, but kind of did Alex runs tour in his crying will is she crying. I don't know. But she's her voice is certainly fraught with emotion as she says, you know, I know you don't quit. So you can't go now. Elisa runs off and looks horrified. Oh, yeah. Somehow, I cut out a bunch of notes here, 'cause I missed the part where the phone call from from Elisa mom, danvers, and Alex, and Haley, and Kara, all realized that read Dr was with Elisa. Right. I mean affectively all this leads to a fight and grass and grass away from the city which. Convenient and their fight for the most part. I thought was okay. It's really hard to tell these fights what hits her supposed to actually because ING them damage what hits they can just sort of taken brush off. But either way supergirl is losing this fight very much. Realistically, I don't know what lex has told read bit Lexus plan, obviously, nudes car and supergirl dead because he can't go into feet. Red saying he defeated supergirl and have supergirl still being around. So then clearly, he's not aware that she's not actually dad because by the time red dot early if she is under the impression that Super Bowl is dead. She can't hear a heartbeat anymore, and she has no idea that the grass is going to save her life, which I wasn't really expecting either. But it happened. Yes, she listens to the heartbeat stop. And by the time she might have wanted to do something else to make sure she was dead. She was think being impacted by what she was watching with Alex, Alex was emotionally impacting red. And therefore read is just I think, wanted to be out of there, but I have to say when Alex was, yeah. Shoving grass super girl's hand, I dunno. Alex that looks a little far gone. So it was a pretty shocking to me also when it worked. Yeah. When Elisa showed up, I was expecting something a little more scienc- to happen, you but that she just kind of stood there and then we're just looking at all of this grass. And I was like, oh, okay. That was not the reaction I was expecting to Eddie of this, but it works apparently because again science. Right. I mean. Technically, you know, plants do store, sunlight in the form of chlorophyll. But I mean it is okay. I really liked the emotions that Alex was putting across the way she was sounding kind of irrational and saying, look, here's Gress news. Some light here. You know, don't leave me. Don't leave me. I really liked the emotions of. Of the scene. And I was willing to turn off in a little brain for that supergirl, seems far more efficient or something about dude dealing with light. Like she generally is a better capacitor and superman. But yeah, pulling these sort of ATP from the chlorophyll sunlight from all the plants. At least I wanted to all the forest around them to die. And she basically is a plan fan pyre. I wanted to see something there, but it was a prize. And all we can do is give the show. Yeah. Leaves us with some stuff to answer in the finale. So there is that at least. Yeah. I think it's pretty wild that it's implied that the Ilyas are actually being refined into the power cells for the Lexus suit that was pretty exceptionally creepy. Yeah. I was not sure whether they meant that the aliens were being completely destroyed like this transmit portal thing was actually not a port a little, but just converting them to energy or if they're just that's definitely a portal. But it's just a question of what's going to happen on the side of the portal. Right. I mean, there was some talk in an earlier episode, where the agents of liberty your children alert, liberty whatever they are just wanted to send all the aliens off planet. So maybe this is what they're doing there. But that, that doesn't explain the energy harvesting, but. I mean, it seems like a weird way to try to get energy because they're going to different kinds of energy. I don't seems like you'd lose a lot in the conversion. I'm assuming that, that portal basically is going into some industrial complex, which is doing something very bad with the aliens. And that's all we really need to know. Okay. We're going to have to go to that place is probably were Alexes or lex has been frequently. It's probably were eve is. And there's going to be a big comforting their next episode. Exactly how the machine works. Let's just not think about it. Probably in the past anyway, we see dreamer being herded along toward the portal with many other people. And she looks extremely both upset and Stony face to the same time, which is a pretty neat affect, even if our friend brainy ever comes back, I don't think he's going to have an extremely rocky road feet. Tries to actually have a relationship with NIA after this. I expect it's recoverable but not easily. It'll take some time and I actually kind of like that they've been letting some of the storylines play out, not as quickly as I expected like with Alex starting to remember that car is super girl that took a lot longer than I expected because I believe in one of the recent episodes, we were discussing I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot Alex doesn't know because they kept it going for so long. But it does leave us with a lot of loose ends that they may or may not try and tie off in the next episode IV short list we have been going after lex, brenick five is going to be going after lex. Now, they may or may not be able to save brainy. John and dreamer have probably been sent to some factory relaxes. The president has to go down. Ben has to go down the children liberty have to go down. Supergirl needs to prove yourself innocent still police, she's alive that probably helps and for heaven's sake. Lena needs to find out who cars. Yes, please. If I will be so upset if they leave that hanging over until season five, it's just if just got to resolve it if I wasn't such a completion est with these dang CW shows, if they didn't tell Lena I'd probably give up the show like not going to lie. It's biking me that much. But the completion est may probably wouldn't let me do that anyway. I couldn't do that. I don't think but boy, it'll hurt I do know that they have some stuff plan with children of liberty next episode four shower because I have seen the stills from that Assad. And I think there's a new new suit coming pursue girl. At least I think it looked new. I dunno. She's had a few that, you know, she kind of only uses once or twice, and then we don't see them again. So I'm hoping it's her anyway and not read daughter. I don't know hard to tell just from pictures of the things that are going to get sorted out in the next episode. It's almost certainly going to be the president in Ben the of liberty. Because it just in all likelihood those actors are probably only been contacted for part of the season. I would love to have them keep lex for at least another season. I feel like because of the caliber of villain that he. He is it would kind of be ashamed to only get him in the back half of a season. Even if they've been talking about him here and there throughout the show because it's you know, superhero, and its lack. So, you know, he's not going to just not be mentioned will there are still talks about whether there will be a superman TV show coming up soon as well. DC is killing me. Well, we don't know how many shows are stopping next year or soon also, though. So it's hard to say how that'll play out. I know arrow is for sure ending and on. They just bumped that woman up to a full series order, if I'm not mistaken, or at least, you know, a thirteen episode first season, which I think they did with black lightning instead of, you know, giving them these twenty plus episode season. So there is a lot peak superhero anyone is it possible to be beyond the peak. Well, our, our sister podcast or brother podcast, or whatever it is, the speedy aero cast has announced that they are no longer going to be covering just ERO and next year. And having you know wrath of other superhero stuff at the end. They're going to an all superhero. Disgusting. You know, not even just the CW shows they're going to be talking about everything on their new show. But I think we can maybe corner the. CW shows now. Or at least you know, I certainly don't want to cover era next season at all. But we can do a little more talking about that woman next year. You know, see how do maybe little code is at the end of our supergirl podcasts, there was the trailer for the pilot for about women. And it looked better. I think than it went in else world. I think there's more interesting and a little more refined. I also recently read one of the bat woman trade books, which I think covers a lot of material the stuff of sort of used as a steetch that's going into the bat woman, TV show, and it's all pretty good stuff. So I'm looking forward about woman. Yeah. I saw the trailer to in it seemed to be heavy on Anna. Tude. Not, not forthcoming much about other stuff there, there's only seemed to be dynamics between her and her father and maybe a woman that might be a love interest. But one of the things that I really like about a lot of the CW shows is that most of them have big teams and a really enjoy the interplay between a lot of characters if, if bat woman turns out to be mostly just a show about her. I think it'll be harder to sustain interest. Yeah, there have been some recent comics that have bat woman leading team. But I also think that really depends on how much of the bat family DC wants to give to the CW has, you know, Batman has obviously been alluded to, but I don't really think we'll see him on the small screen. And who knows if they have plans for one of the eight hundred Robbins in the movies. They haven't really done anything with the Robins in quite some time. So I have no idea how they are going to play that out if it's going to be something where because of her relationship with her father. Maybe there's more of a military angle, kind of, like, how ERO every once in a while uses ARGUS resources or something like that. And so, yeah, there there's quite a few different possibilities there. But, you know, I'm trying to reserve judgment for when I actually see an episode because I don't believe trailers, all the time now, especially since, you know, some big movie ones are like, oh, we're going to show, you this is not actually going to be in the movie. Sorry, sue, infuriating. I mean I hate trailers that give away the whole plot. And now you don't need to see more. But outright lie about what's in the movie is just wrong. They don't know that it might not be in the movie sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes it just gets cut later due to time. Yeah. We'll see. Okay. Well, right. So one more episode a lot of stuff to either rep up or carry over to next season. There are some things we've already talked about how much we do not want them to carry over to the next season. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see as always, it's been fun, discussing the show with you, too. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. Hopefully, I will make it back for the finale here. Hopefully in, thanks to our on. You editor. Is that you this time Dina? Yes. Right. Thanks in advance. And thank you to our listeners, of course. And we hope that you will continue the conversation with us on either Twitter at s g super cast or on slack, the incomparable members slack on the TV channel. And we'll be talking to you. I.