Episode 60: Living Minimal (with Samantha Josaphat)


Sir. Hey there. It's joy Marie and Courtney. Welcome back. We're back with a new episode of child logs or candid career conversations with your group chat girlfriend. That's right. And coming up. We have a great episode for you with Samantha Joseph that an architect of the founder of studio three nine seven architecture. So she's going to give us an insight look and making it in the world of architecture, and how to bring the power of focus and minimalism to our lives. Yes. Definitely a great conversation. But I you guys know we like to start every episode with a clock in this is a segment of the show where we check it on each other. We catch up on what's going on in the world, politics business, more and encourage you to do the same with your group. Check girlfriends, Courtney, how are you? What's going on good? There's a lot happening. I always say like, I've you life peaks and valleys, and I do feel like in a valley situation. It's just the challenges happening. And it's interesting because I think this year has kind of been my Picquier like twenty weather world is burning. I was just like. Everything is fabulous. And I was wondering where like this valley was gonna come from. Because I was gonna come. So. So it's a Rives. But I'm kind kinda impressed with how I'm viewing. Like, it's a reminder that challenging times are win. You learn those lessons in when you have that growth is like you don't better than happen when everything's hunky Dory. Yeah. It's like a necessary way. Way of life and just kind of leave a real for like, you know, miracles to happen whatever you're just like four that higher pyre step in getting your faith, strong and just being able to look outside myself. You know bouncing that faith with like that cautious like lemme vet. Let me make sure every step of the way is cool. And yeah, like having ownership over what you can control. But then come through under man. Oh, well, I hope you know, you're able to work through that at some point. The upside is that we know they don't it doesn't last forever. The val. That's right. They can be rough. So is on the prize because I'm claiming right now like kid married in the spring, and we of this. Yes, I'm where they care about you. I could I'm good. I would say I had a pretty neutral year when Cali there like peak or a valley. But you know, I think it's it was really a self. Reflective introspective as you all know. And I think there've been a few key things that I'm walking away from as we're wrapping up there. One is really just lake how we speak over our lives impacts. What we see which I believe impacts our future as well. It's something I've heard said from speakers, I admire, but to that end, I'm just giving a lot less airtime to complaining to comparison must not to negate that I feel things and impacted by things people do to me or things that he I even might do to myself. But. I just think like choosing not to make that the center of my relationships or make like misery, the focal point of my conversations with friends has been very intentional because that's not what I wanna manifest very hard to do in New York. I think. Good. Yeah. I feel like you know, that's kind of for this next season. That's kind of not what I want to take with me. So I'm trying to give it a little less life. You know, I took a little bit of a haggis from social media just been a few weeks at the time. We're recording the Sepah sewed, but planning to go strong till the new year that's been really refreshing and like a necessary reset because I do personally spend a ton of time on Instagram in particular. So I've been as an introvert I've been and don't debate me I've been refocused. Outset that energy on if I think about somebody. Let me hit him a shoot them FaceTime or asked them to do coffee. So we can actually catch up versus kind of passively engaging with my friends, you know, so that's been kind of fun. Reading more just like doing three configuring my morning routine. Try to be more intentional about my time. So how are you feeling with this new this new lo fi life? It's been really great. It's been very good. I feel like I am starting to set myself up for new like my New Year's resolutions. Really great because I've just I'm starting to basically act on all the areas, I want to prioritize resolution, so you know, I think a lot has shifted in me. And I think I've changed but this year, and even though my circumstances fluctuate, I feel really grounded. So I'm very grateful for that. Wonderful. That's like the perfect way to go onto new year. Yeah. I think so let's get into the Shiites. Now, do it. All right now, it's time for rancher is reviews. This is the segment of the show where we highlight product services, tools or experiences that we're currently loving or hating in our professional lives. Courtney you're up what are you doing today? I am raving. I think we've we've talked about this a few times on this show before, but it's really coming to life for me in that accountability partners. I am trying to get in shape for the wedding, and is just the ban of my existence. Like, I just hated so much. They need. It doesn't like they're few things that I hate more than working out and thinking about what I eat. So I've been kind of stagnant. I feel like I've been engaged for since the March and of thinking about this since March, and I've been progressing about it since March. Or down to the wire. Now, I'm starting to like be a little bit better about it. And I think it's completely because people holding me accountable so shoutout to Aaron for bring her craze workout lifestyle. She killed me almost one, but I forgive her is necessary. Shout out to my fiance for like sending me threatening text messages that I asked him to send me like a right around like that my clock hit me up. Like, what are you doing lazy bum guzzling? Listen, whatever works never work. We just like try at least me, I'm not a very disciplined person. I never use that as a agit for myself or just so having a community of people. It's like support you share things with that. You wanna -ccomplish? It's just it makes it so much easier. That's great. I love that show and all the little people like sharing their fitness during Instagram not so much you like rising grind people who are just like very aspirational unattainable. But the people who are like, oh my God. I hate this. But I'm going. I'm your try really love this trend on stories of people tagging their friends and their morning workout to like you tag like five people in the may workout and they'd take five. I love that. It's like friendly peer pressure. Okay. Of it. Okay. Joy. What are you doing in a very similar vein? And I took a peek at your. So I really I wanna shout out people doing the self work Ling people really really doing self work. Shout outs to my accountability partner. You Norian good friend. We have weekly conversations for hours on end about this. And really like what comes out of those is that real self Karen self love is painful. It's like it's really about taking a mirror to yourself looking at your flaws and weaknesses and recognizing your own role and the role that your choices have played in your own circumstances. And that's not to negate the life that you might have lived in the pain that you might have experienced. But like I feel like it's really about what you can do and what you can own and that's tough. That's a can be really really rough. But I feel like what that does is make for it sets you up for better relationships in work, better communication, better partnerships romance. Cly? You know, a helps you to see habits behaviors that aren't serving you in order to clear room for the things that can help you better align with your purpose. So just shut out to everyone. That's doing that. Because it's it's hard. It's intentional. And it doesn't happen by accidentally people don't just like wake up in their, you know, happy people that communicate. Well, and you know, our forgiving that all takes work to kind of undo things that maybe have made you not like that. And I can always tell people who aren't doing the work because it's like an I'm able to extend more grease to them now. Because I'm like if you're snippy at work for no reason, that's because you got some healing. I'm forgive you for snapping it now because I am volved. But you know, it helps you to be able to see when other people are maybe like still working through that stuff right journey. Yeah. I love that. I think the that reminds me of a I love forgot. Who said it? But basically idea that happiness is a choice, and like it's never just natural state like have to choose to do it. So. Yeah. Anything especially still. So we have a treat for you. All this week. We have Samantha Josefa in the studio. Samantha hello. So I wanted to come in because one I've never met black few architects, maybe there, and I wasn't surprised when she sent over your bio Samantha is architect and the founder of studio three nine seven architecture part of a mere point three percent of black female architects registered in the United States. It was a point before three percent. She is the three hundred ninety seven living black female architect to be licensed. That is crazy to where it's like smaller than high school graduating class sometimes. Yeah. Bunkers, so she has experienced in corporate interiors residential, retail, transportation and recreational architecture, and by building herself available network of resources. Continues to shape path to a more, minimal and sustainable future. She's also the president elect of New York's chapter of national organization of minority architects and this past March some of her work was exhibited at the United Nations visitor center as part of an issue to champion diversity. And she also currently has work on display at New York City's center for architecture as a finalist for the time square Valentine heart designed compensation competition, so an architect with a sleigh. We love. Hollick so impressive. That's insane. Yet. It's crazy chart hearing my bio like oh, right. What is to be like a unicorn? Because sometimes I don't feel like a unicorn I'm actually surrounding myself around other unicorns. So it's like I'm kinda used to being a go getter because everyone around me ago getter, and it's so weird. What I hear people say like, you're the first black architect, I know or black female architect because I'm like, they're everywhere. They're so many of us. But it's because I'm so used to network and we encourage each other so much and we like self promote each other and stuff like that. And so I get so used to being around them that I forget where he's yeah. A unicorn outta the entire you know. Yeah. Operation hopeless conversation opens someone more exposure to who's listening anyone interested in architecture. Anyone in architecture right now anyone questioning whether they should stay in. We're gonna get into it. And I think one of the big things I've been wanting to talk about on the show to is to bring the one who has a lot of experience in design and design thinking, I think that process limits of a lot to just no matter your field life in general, personal professional just about how to have that focus that you need. Yeah. I think Clinton agree with that. Because I did study more graphic and digital design in school. And I just feel like especially like what space like something around organizing space organising objects. That does translate to me. So organizing information organizing projects exactly being process-oriented. Exactly. Like, I find myself designing any and everything like I look at a sign on the street and relate they should've put the person in the dog. The top rate side or I could just be in a space. Like, I was you know, inherent. I was looking for the windows and certain things it was just like, oh, I wonder what part of the building. Are we in interesting uh? So before we dive into that design thinking conversation, tell us a little bit about what goes into being architect. 'cause I feel like we think we know probably man where do I begin? Let's just begin when you're in high school trying to decide if you wanna be on architecture. Not when you're looking to apply to schools know that you have to apply to the architecture program. That was my first mistake I made because I thought oh once I get to college. I could choose my major when I'm a sophomore because that's what I was always told, and I got to college, and I was telling everybody. Yeah. Architect major. And then the counselor was like, no, you're not. Yeah. I was just like what do you mean? And she's just like there's architecture program. Like, oh, okay. I thought I had to buy the books I had to apply to the architecture program and because it's such a rigorous program. It's a five year program that only starts in the fall semester. So I had to ply to the program submit a portfolio, get accepted and then start the following fall. But even just that process was like a life lesson in it. So I I got a rejection letter, and I was just like dang. I didn't get into the architecture program. And soy I went to the school at engineering, and they were totalling about all the different engineering majors. And I was just like it's just not clicking. And so then I went to someone in the architecture program that I knew and I was like I didn't get into the architecture program. And he was just like what are you talking about you did? And I was like, no, I didn't I got the rejection letter, and he happened to call the I think it was the dean of architecture program at the time. And as he's on the phone with him. He was like, yes, she's in the program. And I was just standing there like. What in the world? I started freaking out like oh. And so it was just crazy because because I was so persistent, and I was kinda determined to figure something out whether I was going to get into the architecture program or not me being able to follow up actually gotten the result that I actually wanted to word. That was my first lesson on persistence and following. Yeah. And what kind of kept us through that. Because I love to hear a little bit about the rigor of that program. And maybe even you know, I'm not familiar at all after the program anything that you had to kind of get to get that are are. So while I was in the five year program, it was pretty tough because one I entered school. And at the time I was coming from Georgia going to school up north. And so like that was a culture shock, and then like everyone in my program that was a culture shock like I just felt like I was completely different. And so like between like, you know, communicating with my colleagues or trying to communicate with the professors like everything was alerting lesson. And then I had to learn architecture on top of that I had to teach my grandmother how to pronounce architecture. Lesson after lesson. And so that was a five year program and the way I focused was I put on my headphones, and I put my music on blast liking like I was like so focus when I was like, you know, working on my projects, and I know sometimes I people because they could hear my reggae from. But I did build a friendship with my classmates because we saw each other for so long like every day we saw each other for five days straight. You know, one of our classes where like four hour, long classes, and then even after the class we have to still stay in studio like do work. And so you kinda wanna have a relationship with your classmates, sometimes it's hard again because it's a culture clash, but eventually you get through that. But another thing that I did was I got involved with other student organizations outside of the architecture program because you know, in my class, it was only two black people with you one other girl. And so I felt like I needed a sense of home in community that looked like me at that understood my background so that I didn't always feel like outcasts. And so I joined student organizations to get to know other classmates one thing that did work for me because I was a change of major student, and I had that first year of not being in architecture. Program. I made friends a lot of times my classmates all they knew were, you know, our class our class. And so I was I guess fortunate enough to build friendships before I even got into the program. So they will you know, pull me out every so often. Yeah. So it was really interesting. We told me before how I after you do this five year program that you're doing if not done you're still not like, and I like. Your program. Okay. Now, I gotta find a job along with trying to find a job you have to think about okay, if I'm going to go through with architecture. Do I wanna become a license architect because being a licensed architect, you could either go out go out on your own or you can you know, move up the corporate ladder eventually in order to sit for your license. You either have to a graduate from an accredited five year program or graduate from an accredited master's program or get grandfathered in by like working under other architects, I certain amount of years. And so once you you checked one of those boxes, you also have to gain a professional experience or nor to sit for your exams, and so usually that's like a two three year process, but thankfully, in New York state, they allow you to gain those credits while taking your exams, and so I took advantage of that. Because my student loans was out the roof. And so I was just like can't afford grad school, I need to get. This experience. And so what I did was I went out, and I started working in the professional world. And I just right away. Started studying for my exams the first exam. I took it was actually not former architecture license. It was just a sustainability certification. And I just wanted to take that test to be like somewhat of a tester on like test. Taking and stumbling that I got to know the pro metric center, and I will never go to that place ever. Yeah. It's they have a couple offices in New York City where people take like there. I think I don't know if they take Berg's, but I know they take their CPA exams there and like all these other random exams, and so yeah. Basically at the game professional experience and get license and it's not just one test. It's seven different when I was taking was seven different tests. I think it's six tests now. Yeah. So as you say, this is just strikes me that like you have to be so focused admitted to one thing so long, and I feel like going to college. It's like people are like dip in and out of majors. Like how? How are you? Like, did you ever have temptation to like want to try something else or you're just like I'm in it, some going to fit like woods, the I think I was so caught up with all the work that I had to do there. I didn't even have to. If I think about trying to change my major I'm gonna fail this class because deadline is in two days. And like every week we had a big project doing like the requirements in these projects like you'll these professors are like they're insane. Like, this is not possible. And I mean, sometimes you would check things off everything off the listen, sometimes you wouldn't. But like what they would want you to produce in a Wiki just be like, what planet are you living on? Yeah. I guess. Yeah. It was funny because I was thinking the same thing as you were speaking because I feel like we haven't really had a lot of folks on this show who do have to be that prescriptive in their pass, whether that's medical or. Or even law. And I just like, you know, I admire it so number one kudos to you. Man. I married now. But before I was just like, I don't screwed. You made it you're here. But I mean, I'd love to know like in balance with like technical like focus and getting through the work. What kind of what inspired you, and drew you to their profession overall? And, you know, even when you look at culture like what inspires you, what are the influences and the influence of architecture that you know, as inspiring you and motivating you to kind of make your contribution to the field. It's funny because when people ask me this, I usually hear other architects say all these fancy elaborate explanations. M I explanation is very simple. My mom, we moved to Georgia and we're living in apartments for couple years. And then we're able to well she was able to purchase a house. And so we were going house hunting and out of me and my other sisters. I was always the one going house hunting with my mom. And so every time we stepped in to a house. I was just like why would someone do this? Why was that doesn't make sense? I was just like I got I got a design spaces or whatever because I know how to figure this out or whatever. And then like while I was in school. I realized I actually been designing all my life. But I didn't realize I was designing again, like I'd be in the car, you know, dropping my grandmother off to work with my grandfather. And I'm like looking at everything outside of the car window, just like reimagining in a different way. It was like I said not until like halfway through school. I realize like, oh, I ve been designing for the longest. And so the reason why I say like, oh, this is a simple answer. And it's not elaborate because you know, architectures such an elite profession that like most people that know about architecture are exposed to it. And so like, those say like, oh, I knew this architect growing up or you know, I've heard about, you know, this famous architect, and it's just like, no, I didn't know any of that. Like, I barely even your how to pronounce architecture. It was just a simple like I figured like why can't I redesign something? And I don't even know like I I didn't even say the word architecture. I remember going through a professor saying I wanted to find buildings. I didn't even know it was called architecture. She had mentioned to me take this three drafting class. And so I took that one three D drafting class in high school. And she also told me when you start the architecture program tried to join a sorority because it's a. Predominantly white mill profession. I didn't even time to join us too. Wordy? What I say like I was like screw like barely making it through the program. But I was making all I just needed to make it when graduation came like, my whole entire family came like it was so funny because like, you know, everyone's graduating, and it's like everyone two or three people in twenty people. Because they. Yourself described minimalist. You can't get you. Very chic varies. So what is the benefit? That's like a less as more approach. Yes. So what is the benefit I guess of doing less in a world that encourages us to do the most everyone expected to do all the things. But you'd like I mean, even I guess, that's your style. But also eight your life you'd like focus on. Yeah. This thing because I always wanted to be efficient because it costs more not to be officiant. Ed, man. I didn't. I didn't have the money to like do all this again. It's it's so weird. Because like when I look at how I am now. And look back to like have I always been like this. I realize like I've been practicing minimum since the longest or whatever like for when we were in college like everyone was always running to Starbucks, and I was like Audrey Gordon daughter because. Or whatever. And I would say like growing up everyone always was like, oh, I wanna mansion I want this. Like, look, I need a simple, you know, small unit a condo. I was say condo. 'cause I did want own because I'd won't have to have as cleaning products. It will have to spend so much time on cleaning. So I'm always like connecting activity, or, you know, purchase to like just downsizing on the amount of work that I have again being officiant. And so. I apply that to everything professionally, and you know, how I how I go about my personal life. But being able to focus allowed me to be minimalist in my like and how I socialize with people. Like, I was just like, okay. Like, I got my circle of friends, and I could only see them like can't see anybody else. Like, no new friends was like four. I was just like I'll catch you five years because I really can't. So how do you like apply that whether it's like in when you're designing a building or kind of designing your career? How do you choose like what stays what goes? Oh that takes time like whether it's like interior designing you're looking at materials like sometimes I have like a lot of materials in front of me. And then like a walk away and come back just to say, okay. Like, what can I lose like United take things I take things out of the mix slowly? But I try to throw in like all of my ideas. And then I say like, you know, I try to have higher to them and say what's more important than the next. So that's how I approach it with design, but also with architecture just with like building systems in particular and a lot of architects are taken this route. But like trying to build more passively where it's like, okay, we're in New York. The sun rises in the east your windows. Owes like if like all the activities, you would do in the evening, you would want on the west side because that's where the sun is setting. All your activities. You would do in the morning, you would want on the east side because that's where the sun is rising. And so you use less artificial lighting because you could use, you know, the sun also like just the type of glazing you use or the type of windows you have in a building. Like, it allows you to allows for light to transmit into the space, but not the heat, and so the air cool, and like if you're in the Caribbean or the desert like you kind of place these openings in the wall in a particular way to allow breeze to come in. Don't see unit or a heater and stuff about solving problems. Like, yeah. But what I do like about like being sustainable architecture. You could teach to people who aren't architect, and like I feel like everyone could be architect. Yeah. Yes. You have to have all these certifications in like, the states, or you know, other countries, but you can still architect your life architect, the space, you live in and work with architect architect to say like, okay. This is how I move around my space. I know I need these particular materials is just like, it's weird like architecture sounds complicated. When you're looking at a set of drawings. But if you just take a step back, and I have to tell myself this all the time too. But like just actually try to make sense out of it. And not get too technical. You're like, oh, I get it. We're using concrete to store the heat because the places to hug. Yeah. Joy. So I'm hearing prioritizing. Yes. And I'm also hearing working with the things that you can't change rather than trying to force them. Yeah. I mean for a while architects have been trying to design buildings to like keep out the natural world. It's more sustainable to just work with the natural elements. It's less building systems, which means less money. So you've also stepped out on started your own architecture firms. I love to hear a little bit about kind of what inspired that. And I think also just what your hopes are for the future of the industry. I mean being the three hundred ninety seven are black woman architect period. But then, you know, as a black woman to step into that role. You know, what you're hopeful for and what you're excited about I loved hearing, you speak about access, and I love to hear you just be encouraging and say like it's something that people can have a role in and have a part. And even if they're not necessarily like certified. So what what you know, what excites you, what do you want to kind of see in the future? So. So I felt stifled which is why decided to go out on my own. I just felt like I couldn't do all that. I know I am as a person. And I've always been a go getter. I have always been in a position where I've been trying to like delegate to allow other people to become who they wanna be. And I felt like while I was in corporate like I was always at the bottom. And I understand like, you know, I was at the beginning of my career. But it just felt like I wasn't going to move at the pace that I needed to for myself or for my community. And so I took the leap of faith to say, you know, what in order to pay off these student loans a little bit faster in order to be this project manager in my life like and have control I'm gonna try something completely different to try and get a different result because I felt like going from job to job I was running into the same issue. And just like if I go to the next job, I'm gonna probably get the same result soliciting something completely different. And at the. Time I had my credentials. So no one could stop me. And so I don't see myself ever going back. And I also want to you know, be that late of inspiration whether someone's staying in corporate or they're going out on their own to just be able to say, I'm gonna take control. Yeah. And that's so heartening to hear the because first of all you put in like five years change, and he did. But to say like, okay, let's let's flip the script. How can we adjust this? We all have these dream jobs times, you get the dream. And it's like man Asya river win job. I was jumping on the bed because I was so happy I got it. And then I was balling to get out. Like it was. So I learned my lesson. They'll get through to. I also I wanna hear kinda your take on the influences architecture design in mainstream culture too. Like, I think about, you know, salons tour with yet at the table back in twenty seven hundred twenty two and just kind of you see those influences on her style. But also like the set design. Yes, Virgil right now, I'm always looking at like, you know, whether I'm looking at him musician or movie like at the end the credits, I'm always like who's the set designer because I remember one time when I was in college. I would say I want to be in Hollywood. But I'm in architecture major. So how am I going to work this out? And so I would always say like oh do set design, but set design is so particular its own industry. And so a lot of times, you know, architects don't really cross those paths, but I was actually just talking with someone last week about how architects can pay. Play a role in set design, for example, like the set design for Black Panther one of the set design. She's now the production lead or producer. I'm sorry, really know, the the title or whatever, but you know, she going out to Africa to all these different countries. And just looking at the culture and looking at the architecture and having to like, you know, put that in you know, to movie seen it. So it's interesting when I see architecture in music, and in in film because onto feel yes. So I actually just helped out with a company called studio. One eight nine that does that has their garments are made in Ghana. And so like I just wanted to connect with them. And so what I did was I reached out to them for fashion week, and I helped them with producing the show for fashion week. You know, I wasn't looking for like anything in particular. I was just like I want to expose myself to this industry can make that connection. Yeah. And that's another thing that I'm able to do now that I've created that freedom of time for myself to say like, oh, I could put some of my work on hold for a couple of days to help out this company to, you know, learn something outside of my industry. Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you're ready to kind of like expand that focus kind of thing. Yes. I focused so much that now I can like expand. Sure. Is there anything that guides you as you kind of have you expand without losing that quality of? Social having still having some sense of focus in the sense of not saying yes to everything because a says black women we love to get excited about a lot of stuff and always trying to help someone out. And so I still have to tell myself sometimes like you can't do this. And sometimes I say, yes. And then after go back to people and saying, I'm so sorry. But like the way my time is set up right now, I can't actually commit to this. And so I tried to do that head of time before like, I get into deep with people, but being able to still expose myself to many different things. I asked myself these questions like how is it helping me as how's it helping studio three nine seven as a firm like Ken? We potentially see this. You know, become something else where studio three nine seven kin. You know, expand their design capabilities or how is this exposing our community to architecture more wool this initiative allow other people to. You know step into these roles. One goal is through your three nine seven is to employ, interns, and employees like architects that look like me that allows us to feel like, you know, we're in a space that we're not the minority. But we're you know, the majority are were just as good. Yeah. Wonderful. All right. So you've shared this amazing career journey with us in resort. Appreciate that. Is there anything you want to impart for someone who's like staring down a similar long Pab whether as architecture or something else like any of ice for staying. The course I definitely say remind your sofa of why you initially got on this path to stay persist to remain persistent and resilient because sometimes when you're in the thick of things, you don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel. And you know, I graduated from high school in two thousand six and I could literally tell you it was into a two thousand seventeen I was like, okay. This is finally working itself. And so it was a long haul. Again, thankfully, like I was too busy to stop myself. But at the same time now, I have so much freedom. And I I wouldn't change my during. You for anything? I also try to tell people to respect the journey because we're always looking for that end result. And we then don't, you know, respect our different stages stages, while you're you know, on that path in, you know, at one point in time like I felt like I was becoming this miserable bidder person. And like it was reflected on how I communicated with my friends how I communicated with my family, and because I was so focused on a result. I couldn't you know, appreciate these certain situations along my path. And you know, now, I'm used to look at people that looked happy. And I would be like, oh, I wonder what that feel that was. On the train. Sometimes like must be nice to be able to sit and smart me mug is somewhat concentrate. And so I encourage people to respect that expect the journey. Well Samantha this has been incredible. Thank you for imparting your wisdom, and it's spurring us to I think all live lately. More designed and simple late. Where can our listeners kinda connect with you and continue to see all the great work that you're doing. So you can visit my website at WWW dot studio. Three nine seven architecture dot com. I'm also on Instagram at at studio three nine seven wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for hesitant. Thank you so much for tuning in and a special special. Thank you to our guest. Samantha Joseph at yes. Thank you. Samantha many, thanks, of course, to you all our listeners for hanging in there with us for three years. That's incredible Tomase. Ing the final episode of job logs will be hitting your feeds very soon. So stay tuned. Yeah. And definitely talk to us connect with those around the web at job LA job, locks dot com. I'm Hamish Parker cleave out loud. Next time.

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