The Orange and Black Insider Bengals podcast: Mock-umentary
The it's the orange black insider bangles podcast. Welcome to another episode of our show. Happy to have you with US whether you're joining us live via cincy jungle dot com since he jungles facebook page or the orange blankets youtube channel. Good to see the live listeners. If you're joining us after the fact that's okay too. Howdy to you. All and a greetings sent your way John. Aaron how are you this week A lot of a lot of stuff starting to trickle our way in terms of bengals news at least if it feels like after the combine. Now we're in. We're into March look fifty-seven outside Cincinnati. Does it does feel like spring's around the corner in good times are ahead for Bengals fans. You got a lot on tap here this week. We've already kicked. We've already kicked the week off with an interview with former Bengals player and media member. Solomon Boycott so if you have not checked out that interview please do. It was a lot of fun chatting with him So hopefully you enjoy that getting his insight on the team in him sharing a little bit of a fun story from his time with the Bengals so That was fun talking with him. We'll try depending on the length of this show. We'll spry to tack that on to the Audio of with this entire episode Unless it gets too long we'll keep them separated but Regardless enjoy the interview and we're going to get to a lot tonight including combine winners losers and how some of those performances affect the bengals draft plans. We've also got a sound bite of the week. Centering around the Bengals Free Agency strategy and we will go for our second mock draft second go round for Bengals mock draft with a little bit of a twist this time and obviously gauging with using the combine performances into what we think. The bengals may do. So we're not doing a ton of those this offseason. We're really only going to probably do a small handful but this is version two point now coming up at the end of the Shell John. Let's let's dive into it. You posted something on since he juggled dot com that was a combine winners and losers poses very in depth and showcased and highlighted a lot of players on their their. I mean we can look in a number of different directions in terms of positions in terms of you know which guys did what but I think there is a small handful of position groups that we can look at where that seemed to be intriguing to me right off the bat that really sprang off the screen and times and workouts. And all that I guess to be expected to wide receiver group right and the the highlight of that group is denzil. Men's who had a fantastic senior week down in Alabama Iran was really surprised at how well he separated down there because he ran a quote Unquote Limited Rowntree Baylor. So just his Explosion athleticism on display Was evident enough anyone's the combine around sub for four forty six point six seven three cone totally dominating the explosion drills as well so there's been over off a profile. He performed as bad as well as any other receiver. There and you have to think like coming into. The comedy was like day to prospect and now it's highly possible that he goes in the top. Thirty of strangles may not have a chance of drawing with that second round pick but other receivers at Chase Klay Pool the guy familiar dame who weighed in to thirty eight. Some people thought he was gonNA virtually tight end and after the titans ran may in extreme collectively extremely slow times global. Came out four to so I don't know where he's going to get drafted based off of that because there's still some broad tape to him but his fellow profile is outstanding as well just in Jefferson. Another guy that surprised you know a guy that you know. Many claimed to be a first round player but had a little bit questions of of his athleticism as well here in four three at solids at his size as well. So there's no chance that he's GonNa make dangles pick in the second round a lot of explosion and a lot of speed coming out of this wide receiver classes while that bodes well for Daniels who apparently are targeting. A wide receiver with their second or third. Pixel there's GonNa be a lot of guys than volumes. Arrange because of how athletic in overall towns of this group is yet to guys that I was really interested in. We've talked about them on this show. Michael Pittman Junior la viscous chenault kind of two different stories for those guys in the Wide Receiver Position Grew Pittman Ran. Well I mean six four two to twenty four I think was what he measured in at two twenty three something to that effect on ask in terms of his size. He runs a four hundred four. Five one four four yeah So that's pretty good for that size. When you have on tate on the on the roster who was I think the four sevens when he ran? the forty so quite a big difference there. Lincoln I guess. He had some injuries stuff that he claimed he was dealing with and and ran a little slower than he was also in the four or five obviously quite a bit smaller than Michael Pittman junior but that was a little disappointing. John You said his name this this Klay Po kid. We talked about Pittman. We talked about Chanel talked about Jefferson and mims and Ranger and all these other guys you know this group and somehow this. Klay Pool Kid kind of fell through the cracks. A little bit in terms of discussion pieces and he just absolutely blew up the combine. You said you think that now. Propels him in the top sixty five. Is that what you said? Two hundred top one hundred or I. I think I wrote tough fifty and honestly that's just me looking at that athletic profound thing. That's extremely rare like it's not it's not exactly at the Calvin Johnson level but two hundred forty pounds at you know four four two. That's very reminiscent with Especially just mind boggling because you had guys like Adam Trotman in another top tight ends now running really well. Anything in this class is not looking so good in your thinking about Klay Pool about. Maybe he's making that conversion and then he just Kinda blew away with speeding explosion in. That's like I. It's it's reminiscent of miles. Boykin did last year another the mortar. The Ravens he else around like a low forty four at around two hundred twenty two hundred pounds so they must be feeding the Ryan. South abandoned Dame so Like close definitely an intriguing option again. There's going to be subjective arguments about what is what is tape is right now but like those athletes don't last long draft and if the Bengals have a plan for a guy like that I would definitely not be opposed of it and it was kind of decay. Metcalf ask in terms of numbers in his to his size. And all of that. So you know metcalf fell to some people. Thought he'd be a first round pick but he fell to the middle of the second round. So maybe this is where clay goes again a little bit of a project guy but size height weight speed right and this is we said this last week going into the combine. These is that combine is built for. You know maybe you. It causes teams to go back and look at the film on these guys and say okay. What DID WE MISS HERE? You know why. Why is the the public perception or the current projection to be a probably a day? Three Ish guy maybe late round three and now all of a sudden you know he could be in the discussion in round two so that was one guy of that deep position group that I felt really helped himself especially just because there were so many players that are worthy of a high pick. And you know you could go deep into this draft getting a solid wide receiver. I will say the other position group John that And I think you touched on it in your in your post. Interior defensive line. There are some very very quick and agile guys in that in this group. And we're not talking guys that are you know all of our size. We're talking guys. That are three zero. Seven hundred ten pounds that are running sub five-second forties Now granted the the forty is not the end. All be all especially for guys that size but when you're running that that definitely opens some is for teams that potentially need like the bengals kind of a quiet need is interior defensive line. Exactly I think you know. Seen Khalil Davis Guy from Nebraska on a a four eight at Gallimore There were rumors about him running. Like a four six so his four seven nine time. I guess is quote unquote disappointing. But he did that. Three or four so in some of these guys didn't do too great in the change of direction in the explosion drills but even still like that's that's rare speed like people don't think of like people don't remember That will measured around two hundred ninety pounds six one here like a low for seven which it was three years before dawn. It should have been in the realm of like alienist type performances in. He should not last into the fourth round. But that speed at that size is definitely dangerous. Rare and I. It's it's almost testaments me like because the edge group in this in this year's class was not very impressive testing because his young test Colombian chasing the Guy Chelsea also early. The consensus top to that position and ev- everyone else who's in this late round one day to conversation didn't really blow anybody They didn't really test fast. And it's it's a good counter and a good kind of mirror image to kind of what we thought the. Nfl is transitioning to receive so many more athletic pass rushers and dressers while the offensive line. Play in a sense is is depreciating because of how town to these addresses guy ever since are getting but as as we saw this year it was the disappointed. The combine in the offensive tackles who kind of blew away and we kind of expected guys like Tristan worse and Jake. Wells detests while. And then you know we. We had inklings of of Beckton. Mci MCI Beckham. Yeah Okay Beckham running fast but a five one at three sixty four minutes. It's unheard brown size. But he rented it in like like half a second faster and there was also injured. Thomas a very common as well. So those four tackles in leaving the top twelve. At this point they all tests like very good athletes and also some day two guys. Ezra Cleveland the guy for Boise State. I think the shortest three CONAN short shuttle there. So he's probably locked the top the Jack Driscoll deep tackle slash guard from Explosion drills so great testing from these offense tackles not very good testing from these addresses specifically. Aj of Penza from Iowa who is a five a four forty in like the his game is built on speed. But it's so hard to project a an address that slope lasting longer than fell unless he makes this transition fully to the inside so definitely interesting to see the edge rushers not blow. Anybody weigh in how these Dominated dominated Is kind of reverse engineering of where the NFL is right now. It's a good sign for offense blind legal and Ford. Yeah Apenisa I. I've watched a little tape on him particularly the bowl game against USC when he had a monster game And Against Awesome Jackson. One of the one of the better tackles in this draft. He had a monster game against him. You know I I kind of viewed him as maybe potentially a ceiling adjusted Smith Light You know he's he's strong. He's big he's kind of the consistent motor guy not necessarily the the speedy edge rusher. Agai you can move in inside because of his strength and size but I was a little disappointed with him as well A guy that was probably projected in the middle of the first trump may have dipped a little bit We'll see how that goes and then John you know. Some people are a lot of people Shelton's towers and You know many others in the live chats Talking about offensive line but also linebacker and a couple of guys really stood out in that group especially in the positive Kenneth Murray just I mean the concern is still a little bit of some tape inconsistencies matching up with the athleticism and I think people thought he would come into the combine and really prove that athleticism maybe not to the point that he did though I mean what was he. A four Sub Four right right around. Four five is a four five to sixty to forty one. Yeah Yeah I mean. That's that's just silly and You know there are others in there. that that that perform pretty well. I know you've got the breakdown that yeah this linebacker classes fast. That's exactly what exactly what they're looking for along with. Murray who ran not only four or five to but Thirty eight inch vertical or thirty inch. Vertical hundred twenty nine inch of the broad jump. Obviously as as Simmons isn't alien. He's extraterrestrial. He's not from this planet. Six four to thirty eight four hundred forty three nine hundred thirty two hundred thirty two inch brush. He's not lashing out of the top. Like six or seven picks at this point a guy that surprised me that. Maliki Persson from Ohio State. Six three to forty seven. There was some questions about you. Know is moving. A billion space could last on on the field on all three downs. A six eight three six eight three three cone and a four. Six forty at his size is not bad. It's actually above average. It bodes well for obviously training into this. But you know it kind of some people go back to the tape in wonder if he's better in space than many people realize he's got size he's got lengths to make plays in coverage and I think those times the I. Yeah I do think that this time. This testing numbers bode well for them. In the regarding a guy we talked about a while back like I think the first time we did Prospect Watch back in the fall. I brought a willie gay junior linebacker. He came in at two hundred forty three pounds. Which is I think a lot. More than when he played at Mississippi State four six four hundred thirty six inch broad jump and I think a really good verticals while he's sentenced space and he explodes on on guys in coverage in again. It's all GonNa come down to interviews in what teams thing about his off field stuff but he definitely tested his way into the conversation. Unfortunately we didn't get to see a a keen gate. Davis attest because he had a fractured foot. He's GonNa get surgery for that but I do believe the Bengals With him at the combine I measured in? I think two hundred sub two hundred eighty pounds. So it'd be interesting to see if they wanted to bulk up a little bit but he would have also done wear various testing and one of the bengals states Patrick Queen renting a four or five. Forty he's going to be the first round for sure Yup Yup Gay there you know he That's GonNa be an interesting situation there with the the surgery and everything Definitely not something that is music to Bengals fans years if they are targeting that player because they've already drafted somebody first round guys that come in as quote unquote damaged goods or they get damaged right when they get there so you don't really want at necessarily high pick coming in injured again. Especially you know I think you said it was a foot issue so You know you don't really want that a guy that relies on running around the field quite a bit. You don't really want that right away when you draft him but still an intriguing player and intriguing group. They're the good news is there is at some of the major positions. Obviously cornerback. A lot of guys showed up there that that performed very well to combine. That's another position that may be. It may be on the bengals radar higher than we think maybe second round maybe third round we don't know Kind of depends on what happens with a couple of different guys here in a couple of weeks but you know that that position looks very deep. One of the deepest initiatives class as well so the good news is the major position groups. Can that the bengals seem to need. Continue to show that. They've got a lot of definitions class quarterback wide receiver defensive. Tackle linebacker cornerback. Those are some of the bigger areas. that's Bengals need to address this year and they all seem to be You know seem to be pretty stack wet. What about negatives you know jared Pinkney was one that disappointed a lot of people inside and out of Vanderbilt? You know he was kind of a guy that a lot of people thought may could have been a high day three and sneak into day two with a good workout. He really disappointed You know you mentioned Apenisa any others that kind of spring to mind that disappointed you or thought you you thought they would have tested better based on maybe what you saw the senior bowl etc. Yeah so the first one comes to mind. Is Cameron Dance? Lower the corn back to Mississippi State. I think it was pro. Football focuses fourth-ranked corner. He was projected in that second. Maybe even late first range but he everyone knew he was gonna come in measuring On the lighter side he measured in at six to one hundred eighty pounds. You're in a four six four forty and I don't know if you slipped her feet or something but that forty times worse like there's a lot of quarterbacks who can win the way he does that that slow speed like like there's some alcohol corners. Richard Sherman is a good example. But like Richard. Sherman is is not liar. He's does well in in in the scheme that he he plays in. He's going to be hall of Famer not everyone not everyone. Beckenham win with that. Little straight line speed. So that's worrisome. Projected him long-term in couple offences haggles that that the bengals could have been targeting later in the draft trae Adams and Calvin throckmorton not all five six forty one hundred twenty four and a half inch vertical threat. Fuck Morton five five seven forty He had jumps as well. Those guys that you know for whatever reason for certain individual reasons of their own working to be taken early anyways but now it's a question if they're going to be drafted in the top five or six rounds so they're not legitimate options to fill the needs on offense life the bengals. Yeah we do Throckmorton. Handsome athletic deficiencies. It was more I if you remember he was in. We took him with the bengals final seventh round. Pick in there in in our first mock draft on this show and we did that because they met with him. They gushed about him publicly. He's he's got a lot of positional versatility at the next level so but we knew the athletic efficiencies air. The numbers wouldn't test while with Rock Morton. I think we kind of thought that Adams is a little more surprising. He did have the injury issue that caused him to sit out the senior bowl which was a little disappointing. We thought that he would come in there. And maybe show some things there you know. There's there was a he's in the third round. Hey He's in the fourth round like you said now we may be looking at towards the end of the draft but he could be one of those guys like in Orlando Brown different reason but just a big guy doesn't test well but more kind of as a tackle engulfs because of his size more engulfs rushers rather than you know out. Muscles them out is. Is You know an elite athlete. He more just kinda uses his size knows how to use his size effectively. And maybe that's what he does at the next level as opposed to test well but very good breakdown by you John on Cincy jungle dot com breaking down the winners and losers in terms of Your in your eyes for each position group. We kind of decided to focus on. What the Bengals were the position? Groups the Bengals were going to be looking at their so. That's where we went with APP. This is the orange black insider bangles podcasts. He's John Sharon. I'm Anthony Kazan's We thank you for joining us. Live or we also thank you. If you're downloading the program. After the fact we did have an interview with Salman Wilcox earlier this week former bengals defensive back in. Nfl media member. He came to us via pro football focus. He's doing some work with them now. Which John that's like our third guest Recently from pro football focus or courtesy of pro football focus. We had him. We had Austin Gayle that you interviewed in the end we had been mcphillips. The local kind of guy that covers The Cincinnati bengals pro football focus all of which were great interviews. You can you can catch all of those the most recent one with Solomon Wilcox on our channels whether it's through the number of audio channels that we provide the show through itunes. Google play Stitcher spotify IHEART radio or you can get the stuff on our youtube channel is well all of its own cincy. Jungle Dot Com as well as other pieces of news notes opinions analysis all that good stuff. This is Jesse David Fox. I'm senior editor at vulture. And I hope podcast. Good one a podcast about jokes. It's a podcast about well jokes. Every week I sit down with a comedian comedy writer or director to one of their jokes and figure out how it all came together. I don't sit down with a pin in the ped- physically write down everything. I just not my style turns out. Comedians take jokes pretty seriously. I like all jokes okay. That's what I do. That's what I live for. There's really nothing else I care about. It's all very revealing. What did you learn from this? What was your takeaway? I nothing guy I'm not. I'm not a good one from vulture and the VOX media podcast network. Subscribe for free on Apple podcasts. Or on your favorite podcast APP. Do not use the PUCK Catherine What a great question. Just David Fox time John. We've been doing this for the past couple of weeks. Now it's time for a sound bite of the week and as we get to this Tentative to preface this obviously the bengals are and the rest of the. Nfl are just a couple of weeks away from the onset of NFL free agency. The eighteenth is wind kind of teams can officially sign guys off of the open market make trades all that kind of stuff the couple of days prior to that is when teams can kind of openly negotiate with inset potential contracts in place. So there's this stigma and I've I'm kind of known especially on twitter kind of known as being the guy who is critical of the Bengals Because of their inactivity in free agency in there they're very quiet nature through the first few days of free agency slowly over the past. I don't know John when you think two three weeks. Maybe there's been some new saying that may be different. I mean out of all year like the like the exclusive title holder of that type of distinction. But yeah that's true. I don't know I am either but so over over the past couple of weeks and really kind of leading up to the past calendar week from soundbites at the combine and be an afterward. There's been a lot of talk of the bengals. Maybe being a little more active than we think so I am going to share a sound bite with you from NFL. Network's Ian Rapoport. Many of you have already seen or heard this but I think it Kind of bears repeating if you need it and then we are going to share some thoughts of our own based on the sound bite of the week so without further ado here is in rappaport of Info. Pickup was that it's really the opposite of what the narrative for the Bengals has been first of all. I want to spend them to be involved in free agency choosing break the back top top guy. Maybe they'll be heavily involved in the upper and middle class of free-agent got a lot of holes in the roster. They liked it better. There are surely some players who would help team really have at all levels. I would expect the Bengals to be heavily involved in as far as actually what they've spent. I know it's kind of been out there that nobody spends less than the bengals. I was curious about the actual facts of this whole thing so I looked it up. They are since two thousand eleven. The bengals are right in the middle fifteenth in spending since two thousand thirteen. They're twelve so top half of the League in spending and in two thousand sixteen actually six so they may not go out and spend on other people's free agents but if you were a young player good player on the road team. Food Carson is big quarterback could he added doll? They give a big contract to your good player of their own. They will pay you part of the things that they're trying to talk to. Joe Borough doubted of the frustration have with national narrative. So that is IAN rapoport saying a couple of different things. Mostly of the positive sum is in the defense of the Cincinnati Bengals in terms of what they spend how they spend it Cetera. The other is that they will be active in free agency. So I WANNA give a couple of my thoughts i John just as I kind of tried to digest this. I said this on twitter when I re replayed this video retweeted this video is that I will believe I kind of am resigned to the stance of all. Believe it when I see it. Unfortunately this team has just kind of burned all of us a little too much on the free agency front in terms of its inactivity. The other pieces I I do think they may. I mean it's hard to not be more active than they've been really Kinda tongue-in-cheek the thing I mean it's hard for them not to be more active than they've been over the past couple of seasons the other facet to it is what are they consider. Free Agency is free agency to them player trades because that's part that happens during the free agency period. That's not picking up necessarily an outside player Maybe you trade away your player for a draft. Pick that's not adding someone from outside free agency PER SE I. I don't know if they consider that I don't know if they consider just moving on from some of these bad contracts a form of free agency and I. I don't know who they consider mid to high tier as in rappaport put it mid to high tier Free Agency prospects. I mean we think we have some in mind. And we've talked about a couple on here brandon. Sheriff Joe Tony. All kinds of different different players you know. I don't know that they will go for those upper upper upper crust type of guys. But I do think that maybe the quality level of player will be higher than we've seen in previous years. I WANNA Before a bounce. It back to you John for those who do not know the bengals and this is what makes me a little cynical John. The Cincinnati Bangles did recently bring in Chris veteran defensive. End Chris Smith for a visit. Okay there's nothing. With Chris Smith the player he could be a good rotational edge. Rusher and or provide depth and by the way the bengals need to pressure the order back at a higher rate this year. So bringing in a guy like that especially. If it's unaffordable deal fine. I have nothing wrong with with Christmas. The player I think he could contribute to a team. I do know he's experienced some personal tragedy so I would like to see him kind of land on his feet and do well and and kind of be a nice redemption store story so if he does land in Cincinnati. Good for him. I hope he does. Well there's nothing wrong with that. The thing I have a problem with John and that contradicts Ian Rapoport of NFL Network said and granted. It's just one visit here. And maybe I'm overreacting but a guy that's been other team before a guy who was released out of his contract meaning if they sign him he's not GonNa Count Against that compensatory pick formula going forward. It's kind of a little bit of the same blueprint a guy that's not a household name. That's not going to move the needle so much He can help. There's no doubt about that. He could help an end. What's good about him is? He's a different profile of rusher from some of the big guys that they have on that team but I kinda look at that as their first kind of free agency rumor in I is it. Is it that different? I don't I don't know so I love doing. This is all about doing this. Show live because we did awful jobs of preparing for this cause Christmas decide he an hour before we started walking down. The point still remains okay. The parade remains and I that just came across the wire just shortly before we took the air. So excuse us. Excuse me but the issue is Hey. We were busy prepping for the show and we we glossed over that minor detail but no the point still remains that look. The profile of the player remains pretty similar to what they've done in the past. So that's why I find this. Disconnect with what Ian Rapoport is saying and I agree to this extent. They did this last year thunder Smith because it was like you know the first off season without Marvin Lewis and that whole stigma and you thinking is going to be different as Taylor and of course. The ring They Bring Back Andrea Smith for like third. Offseason there on your thinking okay. Nothing really has changed Ballots like in the summer when it wasn't truly like the free agency period and they needed a body offensive lines so they just went to the guy that they knew because they have to scouts Department they put so much reliance on their coaches. Now you know. The few front office player Personnel People. They have so. It's natural for a scion apartment or player personnel department. That's as small as them to rely on some of these familiar faces end with Christmas. You know he wasn't a an actual like he could signing. He did sign with the panthers today because he was here is contract already expired because he was released by the browns running a week before the browns the bengals last year in December. So like. It's not bad I did research. It's like it wasn't like truly free agency and this is something that I think. We should continue to expect them to do if they have. If you know are in this position where they just need bodies and they see Has played with him before you regardless the coaching staff is as long as like. Tobin and those guys are still here. They're gonNA still rely on some this process. So that doesn't bother me that well especially because Christmas doesn't move the needle at all in terms of what the roster plans are as is the body that would have competed in camp and they still need to address the education. My thing is this. I don't like him. I appreciate his intense in Saint on national television network. But he's still scraping kind of the message that doesn't need to be spread. Yes the bengals are in the middle of the pack. I think sixteenth in total CA. Total spending but he contradicts himself in the middle of talking because he says the facts. Say that the bengals spend a balance leverage maybe slightly above the average was something to do. Tobin said the combine but then he said they just don't spend money on other people's fridges. So what does that mean? They don't spend anything. In terms of real cash. Actual guaranteed money. Ben Baby did a study. A couple of weeks ago about the fingers. Six thirtieth guaranteed money. That's that that is the actual number that NFL teams care about. That's what they calculate in terms of what they can spend in terms of player acquisitions whatever their bottom of the league in actual spending their bottom of the league in spending on players. That can actually push the needle they will spend on guys like Gino Atkins Joe Mixon a couple months but they won't spend on guys that can actually improve the team from outside of the guys that they develop in drafting whatever that hasn't changed and the only way that we think is going to change. Is they actually go out to some of these mid tier one B guys in free agency and like you said I have to see it to believe it because you know for all this talk about being more aggressive Paul nudist resulting in the athletic data? Anybody has netflix. Subscription should definitely read a lot of nuggets rumors from the combine. He basically said that. Yes the bengals are looking to be more aggressive. But you know may maybe they're not going to be fully all in for guys like Joe Sherbert or Green Glasgow? Because they're a little bit too timid their little just a little bit too reserved about going outside of their comfort zone in getting these guys on these deals that would put them in the top five or top ten in terms of positional spending in terms of where those contracts land so it. It's a lot of again I appreciate reports said but it's still. It's still the wrong message of what needed to be transferred because the bengals still in what actually matters relatively cheap and that's not going to change until they actually do the things that they say they're gonNa do to me. It was. It was almost like putting a hand in in Duke. Tobin's hand in Ian rapoport mouth in kind of move spitting out some of those statistics because if you remember in another interview. Tobin put out Not The one that you sat down with him with John. But the one where I think it was from the Combine. And maybe it was through. Bengals DOT com relayed the message but basically you know were twelve in winning and were you know. And it's you know we're top ten in this in it. It sounds good in. It's like you said it's not the right message. The right message should be. We want to be the best. We WanNA talk. We WanNa do that. You know and not we're top third. Were top half to me that the is is not good enough. It's just not good enough and I I know it shatters perceptions in these narratives that are out there that are being floated out there with Joe Borough stuff but it's just kinda like you know the only way you're really going to shatter these these notions really kinda doing completely operating in a completely different way than you've been operating in the past however many years and in that way free you know free agency is one of those ways in which you could do that in outside free agency but yes the bengals spend money in free agency but it is very more often than not on their own guys as you mentioned and you know I. It's the guaranteed money factor which is a big draw for outside free agents to get them to come to Cincinnati. That being thirtieth. That is really eye-opening John. Yeah we got some comments about oh well. They don't conclusively guaranteed contracts but the end of the countries that means nothing to the players that means nothing to the agents. The whole reason right now why the CB's such a backlog and why it's not being going is because players in the players association is not very happy about getting locked into eleven year. Cba some players don't like to be locked into three or five year contracts. They WANNA get out of some contracts. As soon as possible to get higher paying contracts. They want guarantee money. That is how you attract players if you continue to suspend this narrative about. Oh we're not gonNA offer you more than forty or fifty percents guarantee money but we're onto the contract. Ask Preston Brown. He had like six million of his twenty one million guaranteed last year. He was released after week. Eight so not a not a guaranteed guaranteed verbally where it's not guaranteeing paper. That's not that money coming into your pocket. The bengals are just not going to be the organization that gives the player twenty five thirty million dollars up front because they're just not financially equipped to do that and even if they were they. Just don't have the balls to do so because they've lasted in generating revenue from you know things outside of television rights contracts and whatever like that's just not who they are and that whole message that they send can sounds family friendly. It's just not GonNa do them any good. Winning actually matters when we spoke with Solomon Wilcox. He did bring up some names that you know. Pf analytic wise seemed to make sense for the bangles. Obviously you know some of the numbers need to make sense and he he mentioned you know the Corey Little Tan. The Joe Schubert's those sort of things. The numbers need to make sense in the bengals need to operate in a different way than they normally have been but interesting sound bite of the week from Ian Rapoport. I think it's filled with truths in half truths and also a bit of cautious optimism for Bengals fans as the next couple of weeks seemed to be very interesting for what the team's going to do going forward. This is the orange. Black Insider Bangles podcasts. He's John Sharon I'm Anthony. Thanks so much for joining us. Live or if you're just joining the program after the fact downloading it on a number of different audio platforms or our Youtube Channel. We thank you for that. That's cool. Try and join us. If you can live. You can join us for like when we screw up about knowing Christmas signs away or not. You know those sort of things you can you can catch us. Live in our own embarrassments. Now just kidding but please try join us live. We love the fan interaction. We love taking we try and take some comments and questions as we can from the face jets but you also get to interact with other bengals fans in the CINCY jungle. Facebook chat our own Youtube Channel Chat. So yeah join us if he can subscribe to our channels and get notified when we go live and when new material is up on all of those channels we appreciate the support in believe seeing the show. Grow really over the past Handful of months and really you know I. It just keeps growing and we're pretty psyched about that. So we've got some other announcements to make at the end of the show which we think you'll be pretty psyched about two. But we'll get to that a little bit because John is going to kick off our second edition of the Orange Black insider mock draft. Yeah so we'RE GONNA use fans speak again I didn't think I was going to do this in the beginning of the season but did meet up with the creator of offense Steve Sakaba Him. I felt you know what other a couple of bucks is way. I bought premium for Fan. Speaking with premium. You can utilize the draft trade feature Anna. Figured you know it kind of weird. Because the algorithm in terms of what how they do trades in what traits come up as a little bit random. Not all the time for list exciting. I figured mid manipulating around with the trade a generator. What if in next handful weeks? The bengals did trade quarterback eighty to a team that is interested into a team. That's probably have a whole quarterback to a team that has a mid third round. Pick the team. I'm referring to is the new New England patriots so under this scenario the bengals traded away Andy Dalton to the Patriots for their first Third Round. Pick which is twenty third overall in that round pick number ninety two or ninety three overall so in this scenario when any other trades they're gonNA stick with AIDS just to keep it as objective as possible and. Yeah we're going to have that extra third on pick to play around with 'em we're gonNA utilize what we know about. You know what we think. We know the ban guns are. Here's the drafting. But we've heard from the Specific positions they're gonNA target early in the draft renewal. Is You know some of the best player available strategy in regards to that as well and we're going to think we're gonNA utilize what we know about who they've met with what players can fit their over profile all the same stuff that we did in mop. Jeff One so. Let's get started here before we do John. I just kind of want to recap that a little bit. What we kind of what we think we know. And what we've heard We did talk about this a few weeks ago when we did. Our first pre combine mock draft but basically what we think we know. We think we know who they are. Taken number one overall first of all We've heard differing reports. But basically we think we have at least some form of an idea is what what they may do on day. Two defense maybe wide receiver now has seemed to enter the discussion. If you're if you've been reading BENGALS DOT COM. That seems to be entering the discussion by the way. I don't know if you saw this John but Hobson Jeff Hobson of bengals dot com pick Terrell Lewis the guy. We picked our second round pick. He picked him after us. So snow little billie absolutely. I'd love to have him on by the way. But so you know. We were thinking that after quarterback you know there's defense a couple of different positions there. There is wide receiver. Obviously offensive line linebacker. Our needs there We've heard a couple of different things as we go forward here You know we. We think we've got a picture a little bit of what they like to do. John mentioned is well. They often like to go best player available. They don't like to reach considerable. Reach for a position in certain rounds. They'd rather kind of take the better player rather than the positional needs. So those are some of the pieces of the framework in which we will operate all right. Well I guess I guess we will start over. I think we can see mine. Correct okay so well. With the first baked bagels. Take Joe Bureau we may. We may just have to erase a little caveat that we attempted to use their MCI becton went very high rate. They're henry rugs going nineteen as Raider. If he's who Henry Rugs Ground Grave Sinaga right so the bengals are on the board here. Unfortunately running backs are the highest rated. So here we go again. We've got Terrell Lewis and then this gets interesting right here. John got the wide receivers. Denzel mims performed very well and I think he's one of the guys it personally given that given that article that I read from Jeff Hobson. I think that the two wide receivers they may be looking at whether it's in rounds two or three our mims and Jefferson. Those are the two guys eighth just. That's just my hunch Mems obviously had the good workout higgins. He was Kinda up and down right And same with razor was just kinda steady. I don't think he was totally outstanding. So but those three could definitely in the conversation and number three three over all the other. I mean in terms of other guys. There's Antoine Winfield junior interesting guy. A guy we mentioned last week Trevan digs the cornerback. Aj Charlie cornerback Out OF CLEMSON. So those are some of the top guys in terms of positions that make sense and and here we have. Zac Bond as well. The Edge rusher from Wisconsin. So I think the picks that make the most sense based on who is gone here. Zach wban Terrell Lewis. Denzel MOMS ARE. Probably the three guys that make the most sense to me. I think I would say bon or mims personally. I don't know your your thoughts so I'm based off what we've heard think if they're going to sign any starter in free agency. It's GonNa be a linebacker and cornerback in a cornerback. Is something that I think. Knowledgeable expected but it was also something that danger reported like. Kirkpatrick is essentially out the door. The Colin going a different direction with with Denard so they couldn't tact over this early in the draft but it's it's pretty likely at this point that they're going to sign someone who can potentially started that position in linebacker. They're not gonNA have a choice. They're gonNA sign somebody who can sir next Pratt so that takes away. The immediate need to draft a linebacker here in the case of bond but like a receivers getting Within the first. Three or four picks. That's for sure if a guy like mims is still here with that with that impressive pedigree at three years of consistent production at Baylor Incredible athleticism is prudent in in every way shape or form in the off season. If Memphis here I think he's got to pick a like I. I was tempted to go on there but he as of right now is still available now is not the definitely s opposite linebacker around three for sure so I think around three where they would go in. The pick is coming up here number. Sixty five probably linebacker. A maybe like you said corner. If they don't get someone there Could be in edge edge hybrids. You've got this Josh. Joshua kid from Michigan he hasn't really been practicing performing because he's been injured right He he sat out the combine and that was kind of a guy that a lot of people were interested in seeing so hard to get a good grasp on him same with Prince Takeaway. No-go the tackle from Auburn. This could be tackled territory. Jeremy Chen tested incredibly. Well Yeah you know. He's kind of a hybrid safety linebacker. Interesting guy you've got Maliki Harrison there Do we take me care center first draft. We did yeah. I feel like we did so handlers. Dow and I think Even though I love the player Edwards layers out at ucs out so I think what you're looking is Luce Tako Chen or Harrison. I think those are kind of the guys that you may Troy Pride. Maybe I think we picked him last time to Ezra Cleveland Another Guy. That's available here. Cleveland's definitely not lasted this long. The actual thing that's for sure he tested to a less the third round so basically. I think it comes down to. Do you WanNa Linebacker Rish Guy or tackle in the threat and I think Ago was mocked the bengals. Add the specific spot by dame brewer today of the athletic. I don't know if that was based off of I don't. I'm not sure if he if they met with him but the I think based on her invisible the bengals need. It's probably going to be somebody that can compete at right guard but can also play Hackworth needed. Because they're gonNA have three tackles on the roster going into the draft GonNa Sign Anybody in free agency at that position because unfortunately the market's either too expensive or just not very good enough so a guy who can have positional. Versatility is probably going to be targeted With the first offense lamb that they select so cleveland a guy who can play inside and outside based off of his athletic ability frame. He would make some sense to me. I think pert entail no-go basically tackles only because that's pretty much where they would win the most but also I think in this specific board a King David gather is I think almost predict as fourth-rounder not be accurate because he didn't test us on the smallest side but that's definitely a guy that bengals have interests and a linebacker that I think they would like to target because they wouldn't expect him to start and he can kind of fill frame so I think honesty like Harrison again makes a lot of sense and if we want to go back in that direction that that's fine with me but yeah just like the best able to tackle here or like Davis. Gator would probably be my choice. What do you think so I would I I would think about Davis gathered? Just the injury red. That's that's what really worries me there He's way down here. So Yeah I wait on that. I think just because of the injury may push them down. I I'm I'm kind of tempted to tackle here So I guess let's go. Let's go with the kid from Auburn. Okay does he. Did you say he has versatility. I think he's only been Taqwa Cleveland's also tackled but he might have liked the frame that you like. We went better than what I think. Cleveland. We'll go ahead of yoga because he tested remark. I don't think he's going to be available here on the real thing. So if we have the opportunity year by That'd be fine but I I do think that if they wanNA tackle only than take notice probably the more likely option that says okay so this is the war room is you can for all over the place all right. Let's go. Let's go with Cleveland. You test death religion says. I hope Y'all are drafting. We are not. Unfortunately I've been wishing that for the past eight years now but have never taken will Clark in the third round or Russell Bohdan around after that feel like Barch was a guy who took last time to write a report around four. Yeah he also did not test but he did announce he had the most disgusting way gained smooth of all time in college. Did you hear about that was that was that was that? Yeah at the seven eggs homemade grits cheese gatorade peanut butter. I saw that an absolute abomination. So here I think the bengals ninety seven gather is available Davis either. I think that makes sense If you WANNA look interior defensive linemen anyone here kind of blows your your hair back. Davin Hamilton Devan Hamilton. From Ohio State. Decent player a really down Jordan Elliott. I think he's going to go earlier than where he's projected here I think yeah at this point like defense has to be the priority because they went three straight on offense. Let's go with gaythers? They met with them. And he's available here. I think that makes sense. Maybe a little bit of a reach because of the injury but You know I I think in the fourth round. He's a he's he's he's much more talented than the fourth round player. I think announces out so so far we have JOE BOROUGH AT PICK NUMBER ONE PICK NUMBER THIRTY THREE OVERALL. Denzel mims wide receiver of Baylor and at sixty five. Ezra Cleveland who tested well the Boise state offensive. Tackle very athletic kid. And then you've got at ninety seven. Keep Davis gave the linebacker out of Appalachian state very talented kit athletic it but unfortunately dealing with an injury and you may be you may be Guy. They slowly bring along You know given that injury okay. So we're back up here again. Pick one twenty nine round five and for those who Were joining US earlier. the draft network the mock draft machine. Unfortunately had A. I don't know a screw loose or whatever so we had to instead of doing the initial player trade where we factor in a trade with Andy Dalton. Unfortunately we've had to make do and and not do that but that's okay because at trade actually hasn't taken place yet so You know what will probably do one or maybe two more of these mock draft before the draft itself and then we can factor in that stuff as it. Light is likely to be taking place we just wanted to. Kinda do throw a little wrench in there. But unfortunately the draft network through a wrench in. Its own site and screws up. That's okay all right. So let's see as I think here John. You may is there corner You know here. Maybe a Lamar Jackson. And that's That's Kinda down the pack. A little bit You could look at maybe an edge. I MAY BE TIGHT END. interior off of line. There's your boy John Simpson I I. I feel like we've heard comments about them wanting to keep atkins more fresh and keeping more Stadium Rhodesian billions of freedom right now. But he's a nose tackle anyways The truth three technique behind Has Ryan Glasgow? He's been dealing with injuries for the past couple years. Now I think keeping healthy rotation along the along the interior defense line in the scheme of they want to run. I think is important. I think right now you have great value in guys like Jordan Elliott Ami again. Who's one of the more underrated? Interior past profitable. Hoagies is is really high on both of these guys in terms of the ways that they win as a pass rusher so if looking for depth and a potential replacement were just Tell them keep fresh at three TECHNI. Both those guys would be prime targets here if they were available. Yeah I say Elliott. I think that that's just you know in terms of the the areas they've already hit who's available on this is this seems like it's pretty good value. I mean they have them at the hundred thirty second player. Where at one twenty nine? But like like you said I think I think his value is perceived as higher than that so I would go interior defensive linemen Jordan Elliot from Missouri. If you are good with that God acts so moving on moving to these sixth round. Let's kind of look at all of the positions here. At least the ones up top and just so. You're caught up Joe Borough Denzil. Men's Cleveland Akeem Davis gator Jordan Elliott quarterback wide receiver offensive tackle linebacker interior defensive line. Have so far been met in terms of need and Aside from the first pick this is a much different looking draft than our first one in terms of players and whatnot. So they've not updated as port. Michael Pippen still. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Maybe they didn't maybe that's why the site maybe down a little bit. But that's okay. I mean I'm tempted. Just value is sixth round. It's Kinda like wow In we did take him. I think in the six last time to their so any here cornerback. Because that's not an area we have touched on or safety. Maybe a hybrid guy anyone here Jordan Fuller Jr. Read Tyrrell Burgess Is there safeties Neville Clark? Dane Jackson? Scott any of those guys seem to be a better pick than a value in Tyler Johnson. Michael Pittman Devin du Vernay Law wide receivers still here. Yeah I know that none of value the Michael Pittman at this point but I do know that they were familiar with Dan Jackson. Down the senior who actually practice pretty weld on there. I'm not a hundred percent. Sure how he tested. I know that. Tyrrell Burgess to save dead. Utah has rejected the probably go inside the first four rounds well so him going on here would be also be also great thing they would lay their hands on any of those. Utah. Defenders Nets Secondary Be Rene against practice gave the fourth or fifth round again still here. Jordan Taylor has a lot of fans as at state of Ohio State. I think again like Pitman's not going to be here so I don't WanNa like ignore them for the sake of realism. But I feel like it's not the worst idea as well just to have a better sense of what we would actually be dealing with. I think at this point. They didn't address the quarterback than they would probably like to go there and unfortunately A guy who I think is really on the radar Wallace was taken. I think after we took Elliott last Ron. He could be the Tennessee. One of the better. Slot cornerback Draft for being the city of Clemson. So a guy like Jackson Mugabe Desai's Scott who apparently really looked up to darkness denard. He went to Michigan State as well. I think I look guys would fit what they will be looking for in at the cornerback position her. There's also the other. Aj Green from eight. I think you profiled him in one of our prospect watches. I don't know if you are tempted. They're little higher on him in that evaluation compared to what he actually is what he tested. Yeah Yeah You make the call I I made the call last last round so you make the call my friend. I'M GONNA go only Jackson just because I've seen him in person advancing your date. Jackson does. It's a six pack. It's not gonNA matter too much get. So we've got Joe Borough Denzel mims the WIDE RECEIVER OUT OF BAYLOR AS CLEVELAND. The tackle out of Boise State Akeem Davis gathered the linebacker out of Appalachian State. Jordan Elliott the Interior defensive linemen from Missouri and Dane Jackson. Cornerback out of Pittsburgh so far really hitting a lot of different needs. The I guess you could say really the only one that kind of hasn't has been interior offensive line And as you get late in the draft here where I'm pick one ninety two the bengals final pick a as they have their class. Currently comprised another Clemson. Kid these these kind of none of these guys really just just the sake of Hickson Gables who your best linebackers are because they might end up double dipping in that position. So you've got Francis Bernard at a Utah Michael Walker out of Fresno State. Dave Taylor four five two of the At the combine. So interesting okay. So that's that's a good name to watch their They also haven't we haven't taken it and edge. You've got a couple of names here Those are some guys that people seem to be a little higher on Anthony Jennings and Michael Divinity out of Lsu. Those guys I I know. Pf is really high on Gibson from Tulsa. I think they might have them as a top. I think is like the ninety fifth ranked player in there obviously based in production. I'm not sure how tests but anti jennings was really had some dominant reps the senior bowl across from Terrell Lewis. They both were screaming So yeah again. This is the seventh round. The player who's picked your might not make the roster but they need guys who ran out. This would be fine. So I'm tempted to go jennings. It's not just because I think he is. The highest rated person left on the board or one of the PITMAN. Oh Boy Jesus wild Okay well that makes it difficult. I am so tempted to go with Jennings If we are going to go edge rusher because when it comes to this team they often like to go with the big school guy over the smaller school guy Let's just kind of how they profile it so I guess what I would say. Is You want one of these guys tower Johnson. Michael Pittman Defendu Rene or do you go with the edge rusher. The positional need that we have yet to address like like Pitman's of able to seventy he pulled Laremy Tunsil. There's a gas mask over his lead into twitter. So like I I I would go jennings or Taylor linebacker from from Colorado just to kind of roundup this superstition groups. All right. Let's let's go jennings man would be nice to. They'd finally got taken pit and taking. What did he do that he liked? Pull Josh Shaw. Did he jump off the roof of building like I duNno. I Dunno says Your Guys Man Gandhi Golden. Still there too all right so here. We go do these right here all right so number. One overall bengals select Joe Baroque quarterback out of Lsu. Thirty three overall Denzel. Mims they get a guy to help JOE BOROUGH WIDE RECEIVER OUT OF BAYLOR SIXTY FIVE OVERALL CLEVELAND offensive. Tackle at a Boise State. Ninety seven overall. That would be the fourth round. Keam Davis gather the linebacker out of Appalachian State. The bengals met with him at the combine. But he does he is said to have surgery at believe it's somewhat minor kind of in between minor and major surgery so I it's kind of unknown as to what his status for the opening of the season would be a very talented guy and a guy that I think the bengals would They seem to have some interest there. Jordan Elliott the Interior defensive line. Probably a guy to be quite honest with John. He's out of Missouri to be quite honest with a he kind of fits that third and fourth round mold at the bank. The bengals usually like to take a defensive tackle in the third fourth rounds. At least they had done that in years. Prior with you know Pat Sims Gino Atkins and all kinds of different guys. So he's kind of in that age group billings. He's kind of in that mold. Wear you know he could be in that? Fourth Fifth Round Discussion. If he's still available pretty talented kids to get in the fifth round. Dane Jackson the corner out of Pittsburgh with the six round pick and it went ninety two overall in for new Jennings Edge player out of Alabama. Basically the other side there are other edge guy Not Name Terrell Lewis and You know a part of that vaunted Alabama defense so that's two point Oh So we will have to as we do others will have to make sure that the draft network is up and running. He even harbored on the draft. Never gets it was fancy that crashed. Oh it was fancy okay. Yeah Yeah Okay. I thought you were at the draft network is so faint speaker still down as we speak at the last time I checked. I'm I'm pretty sure it's still down but we can use that one next time. Hopefully will I we tested before. Yeah just it's unexpected. We have no control over that site. So so that is the six rounds. That were seven rounds. Excuse me that we came up with the Cincinnati. Bengals this second time around. Hope you enjoyed it. Despite the website the machine mock draft machine not working for us on one website. We may do. We'll figure it out next time in terms of you know maybe the Bengals have more picks by the time we do our next version if they trade Andy Dalton they get rid of certain guys who knows what what can happen in the next couple of so. We will be giving you another one before the draft. Stay tuned for that. It's GonNa be fun. These are fun. And it's it's it's interesting part of the discussion. John where you? Where do you WANNA go here? Where do you want? I'm sure it's Kinda a little bit. I'm sure it's more heated but it's a little bit. I'm sure how the how the war room does. But this is exactly why the bengals are not going out there insane. We're going to draft you borough number one because they have to go through this process because they're gonNA come up like they're gonNA come in. These scenarios were not necessarily burrow. Because that's a lot but this process applies to every pick in the draft where it's like if certain players come off the board when you don't expect to have contingency plans and you. WanNa follow a general path Positions you WANNA target early but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way where a lot of your targeted players end up going. You know a couple before you and you don't have the guts to trade up in target one of those guys so you you you need to be prepared to have these discussions for in a certain time limit like people think it takes too long for these for these teams to draft players when they see the best players available but these scenarios get played out time and time again in the in the days and weeks leading up to the draft process in in sometimes for the Vikings of you know a handful years ago they couldn't pick in time and they had to forfeit it. So like these these things happen in these discussions avenue and I think that's why the Bengals do appreciate the fact that their war room is so you know let less populated compared to other teams like the browns for example whether it's not as many voices bouncing back and forth is a little bit more cohesion. That senator These things happened. This process has to be taken seriously. That's one thing actually John. That's a point that we seem to overlook and by we. I mean almost every bengals fan I mean I know we razz them for having such a small scouting department but I guess in a weird way some in some fashion that could in this manner which you're speaking that could bring about a positive in terms of a vision and not as many cooks in the kitchen muddying the muddying the vision of the team. I guess I don't know maybe that's just put a positive spin on it. But that's second mock draft would get you another one before the actual draft comes probably a post free agency and then obviously you know maybe in the week or two up to the drafts though will go with that. We're GONNA drop the MIC and get out of here. We've gone a little long and we apologize for that. But we're going to drop the MIC and get. Outta here really for me the MIC. Drop this week is more announcements and gratitude. Obviously I'm grateful that Salmi Wilcox joined us this last this week. So hopefully you enjoy that interview that we sat down with him And our thanks to PF for for bringing allowing him to kind of come on this show and join us. That was pretty cool. The other thing we've got a couple of people working behind the scenes helping us get up other interviews with former players and those associated with the Cincinnati. Bengals helping US get Salman. Wilcox interview is a new associate producer. That we've brought on and his name is James Clayden. He has helped us get that and he is currently working with other representatives of current bengals players to get them on the show down the road. I don't WANNA say names promise in in all of that but he did mention that he has been in talks with other representatives to get current players on this program. So having James played in helping us out in a producer role getting some of these guests instead of just hearing us Yak for an hour. We want you to hear other people too so there are some others coming down the Pike. We thank him. There's also listeners joining us tonight. Mike Holbrooke he always joins us. Live facebook chat I've been in contact with him really over the past few weeks. He's linked us in with a few former Cincinnati bengals players that are set to join US Reggie Williams a long time. Cincinnati Bengals linebacker trying to nail down a time for him. He is releasing a book so he should be coming down the Pike Adrian. Ross if you remember that name a linebacker for the team for about six seasons in the late nineties and up to the first year Marvin Lewis era. He tentatively set to join US next week. So that was an introduction that Mike Holbrooke our listener gave me and we're working on getting others again. I don't want to spoil the names until we get those kind of more dialed in. But my thanks to Mike and to James Clayton four cannon giving us these intros in and get MRIs interviews Because it's pretty cool or getting in touch with guys that we think are pretty engaging and you know they're attached to the bengals hopefully enjoy those interviews and my mic drop is going to be on twitter today The bengals official twitter account has been posting these posts about no Pictures OF CHARLESTON. Labban photos of certain players. They Feature K. interest today and they advertised it with tweet. Said put cannon Canton with the Grunting EMOJI and this is the first time I think the words as has ever in any way shape or form fifty spoken out about Kansas. Not being in the hall of fame and a lot of people in their mentions including me basically made a jab. Same why are you wanting Kenny Anderson Hall of fame when you don't even want him in the ring of honor and almost like you know? Sometimes the bengals tried to do these things where they like they like to you know. Kinda or modern in terms of social media whatever but sometimes get out of their own way in these things and it is true. Like you know wh. Why should a team advocate one of his greatest players to be in the hall of fame when the only way that you honor them in the stadium with this metallic ban that goes over? The NACHO STAND. It's not it's not straight of contradictory but Lack of self awareness. I mean a real rate and I don't I don't want to steal your thunder on this but I mean I know I just WanNa say like you know this. This is to me. This is just like typical bengals type of stuff where you put that out there. And then you're Kinda like dude. Look into me her. Look in the mirror a little bit. You know I I I like that. They were putting that out there and yes. He is deserving of the hall of fame. But it's also kind of like well in their retort would obviously be well. He was on our top fifty list. All this you know. That's great but make a ring of honor. How hard is that and also Cook announcing from my end. I've been talking with a baby who is the. Espn bengals reporter about coming onto the show and with some time the next two weeks we expect to come on potentially preview targets of free agency or the bengals overall frequency plan. And if not you know just to get to know Ben As he was this issue the bengals and he's very excited to come on the show so when that becomes a concrete thing we will announce it again because no-one is happening. Yeah baby that's that's a good fit in where we're psyched to have him on. I know you've been in conversations with him so that should be. That should be an interesting interview. Once he's on they're probably thinking the next week or so obviously he's getting busy so We're trying to get more interviews. We've wanted to do that A bit more. We try to make that goal with the with the show this year. So hopefully we'll get more and more coming to you and again our thanks to producer James Clayton and listener mice. Mike Holbrooke that was It's very generous. That they're spending their time and resources to help out the program so You know we appreciate that. Let's get on Outta here John. Thanks everyone for tuning in and we'll see next week.