The Boss Man Himself Greg Shepard Shares How He Made His $900 MILLION Exit And Takes Others to The Next Level With The BOSS Method
You're listening to the how to entrepreneur podcast a podcast about successful entrepreneurs across all spaces and all industries we sit down and get into the heads of the people that have paved their own pass turning ideas into realities. You want to be an entrepreneur. We provide the tools. This is the how to entrepreneur podcast, and this is your host Dylan Mentor. Hey everyone welcome back to your host, Dylan. I hope everyone is still stand comfy watching Netflix listening to podcast. Even though this might be the one that really motivated you turn that TV or smartphone is start planning for your first business today. We, have on Gregg Sheppard this episode. He started his own tech business back in two thousand thirteen and exit three years later for a whopping nine, hundred million and I know you're probably wondering who's got nine hundred million dollars to spend on a business will back in two thousand, thirteen Ebay had nine hundred million dollars to buy. Greg's nowadays. Greg is helping other businesses to accompany of his own boss capital partners. They're taking these six seven eight figure businesses intact to. To the next level now, Greg had a solid track record. Prior to his ebay exit, he used to flipping from garage sales even bought and so two small vending machine business for forty thousand dollars profit while he was still a teenager, but if you think that Greg story started off with Richie rich silver spoon scenario, you could not be more wrong. We're GONNA PICK GREG's mine getting vice, and how to start a business of your own. The Gregg Sheppard Way. Thanks you guys for tuning in to the show today before we get started. Here's a word from our sponsor saint. Solution, eating should be enjoyable simple and make you feel completely satisfied. Igniting your body's natural fat burning blood sugar, balancing power Saint Solution. Same plan is the only program by top doctors from prestigious medical schools proven to help your hormones, brain and gestion. When you start lowering your body's natural set, wait, you will lose fat imbalance. Your blood sugar naturally guaranteed Saint Solution Dot Com. Greg thanks for coming on the show. How are you? Thank you, yeah, thanks for having me I can't believe that you found all that stuff. That's crazy. You did some homework Yeah, I wish I could have done more knowing what I know what I missed out on just talking to US weekly before this I mean you I mean renaissance man wouldn't even closely relate. Closely defined there's really not for. Being a serial entrepreneurs is one thing having done. Everything is another. Thank you I appreciate. That's great compliment like it is being on your show I appreciate it. Happy to have you Greg I mean you've been killing it you especially on the. Side I've read the Bio herds him interviews. I'm aware of the awards. When did you start hustling and bustling way before your business at assured and Oh yeah so I started. Let me see when I was in high school I would sell or importing Rubik's cubes when that was a trend and I was selling them, and then I would char charge extra money talk show. People bought a figuring out no. I. Mean I even Chech- rattlesnakes and solemn as exotic pets when I was, you know young, and then I got my first real business going when I was about nine hundred eighteen. which was a Bungee jumping company, which I don't think I've ever said on a podcast because it was a disaster, but I bought. And I like mountain, dew commercials, and I jumped like Rock Stars and movie stars from La to San Diego. and then after that I went into I was already in banking, but then I started my own bank and I was You know in my early twenties. And then sold bad, and then I started a environmental applied biotechnology company. And sold that and then from then on out. It was all software. Nobody's as soon as the entrance started to boom. That that's where I was meant to be pretty safe sector to be an I'm assuming especially when you're add to prove it right. Yeah I mean I learned how to Code and. Early, on I haven't touched code for very long time it's it's a lot different now, but very early on you know when the Internet was I sort getting started this before. Google and everything, and is first getting started I. Remember it so clearly I was trying to start a hosting company because I had learned about this host. I was like man. This is like printing money, but then I realized nobody had websites I had started website host a website development company in order to sell a whole tone in order to. Sell hosting solid sell the website. And then the hosting in that turned into an automatic website builder, which then end up being sold, and when I found out in there in that process. Was that the all the people that were talking to me and you know you talk about? Listen to the voice of the customer while the customers like. They told me that they didn't have a website to host and I sold hosting told me after I sold the website and hosting, they needed traffic, and then I started to get into online advertising. Okay, so, what was the name of? The, the hosting domain, hosting a platform. While now, what what's called one t three turnkey, but now I don't even know what it turned into this was you know twenty years ago or something? It's still alive and out there, though yeah, I believe it's own. It changed hands a few times, but it's you know it was what it was. The first light wicks. I that that kind of a platform is cool actually. I mean it wasn't as Nice as we expecting. You didn't have that kind of code, but you know it at the time. It was like really cutting edge. You know you had these boxes. You could fill in your own taxed and drag and drop an image and boom. You'd have this website. People are just like Whoa and actually I did it because I was trying to save money. I was creating automated process I didn't need as many advanced engineers and. Designers, wiki create templates, and then have interns come in and fill things out for people. And then we ended up just giving them people directly, and then that became the business. That's awesome and can I ask you. You said you were in finance or working at a bank. Can you started your own? What? What did you have a mean boss or something? Did you want to stick to what was? When did you decide or how did you decide you were going to open a bank in early early twenties? Who Does? Well no I had a really actually really really cool career, and I was selling money for what is now chase. It was a different bank at the time, but. I was basically going to mortgage brokers and banks who had a limit in terms of the amount of their depository funds that they could loan out to their customers. So what I would do is go try to sell them our line of credit, so they could use our money our underwriting and fund the loan so so they could service their customers. And when I first got the territory because I didn't know anything and I didn't have a fancy education and you're right. He's never silver spoon. My mouth I actually lived in tents for a couple of years while we were building our house. We're actually pretty poor. And I. With that kind of just you know, get it done. Kind of mentality I made a map and went around and started. Getting all of these people in these areas that were not the best areas at the time long. Beach East La you know the the rougher areas at the time now is not nearly as bad. And getting them to use our line of credit. Well what I figured out is that I could just do that for myself, but couldn't do. In California had to move to Colorado because California I had you know it was already out right, so I moved somewhere where they weren't aware of it I went to Colo, Conroy. And I set up. A bank set up line of Credit with the folks that I had knew from when I was working there and away we went and. That's that. Toss I mean I guess. I mean the. The status you have in the substantial. Business. Related lifestyle that you've learned and one way or another. You're bound to have close ties with the banking system of America. Bound to happen. You have known what I mean. That's no surprise. So, I heard you mention actually. I was actually I had learned that I needed to do at the time I, said money and computers, and so I I worked really hard to learn money in computers are the two things I needed to know, and I use those same things today, different lessons, but the same idea. Man and I wish I. Wish I would have had that kind of mentality when I was just a tad younger There's two things I need to learn and I'm GONNA. Be really distinguished atom as opposed to just kind of knowing him probably would have changed the course of history for me as it would. Anybody I'm assuming but. You brought up earlier that. You were living in tents. Those are pretty humble beginnings. Now, you know prior to your first company. I'm assuming you weren't still living in a tent at that point, but maybe you were trying to do some some sort of scrambling hustle hustling type of. Generating income whether it was a side, hustle or multiple jobs at you were working in order to attain or by Your First Company. Will what I started my for my own, my companies on my own, but I would build companies and sell them to fund my main project, so you had mentioned the vending machine company and these things so I did I don't even know how many of those but I would you know by a company and sell it in three months? Turn it around and sell it or I'd buy. Something was distressed. I mean I was always looking so I kind of worked my way up, and then the money. That I made I just kept in. Investing it into my main project. And because of the boss process, I was able to get my main project to the point where they would run themselves, and then I would go up in another one, so I had an office in South Bay area and it was running. It's outside open when Canada. Randolph's open one in London and then in Sydney Australia and then came to San. Diego opened a whole new business. and all of those are what ended up being sold in that transaction. That's crazy to think that I mean. You were so young doing all of that It's it's. A, this thing that's crazy, though you don't. If you use boss correctly, you don't actually you're not doing it all. The people that working in the framework end up doing it and they're. They're doing it, you know. Still to this day, those same people used in mind vestments, so I'll take somebody out of a business that had previously, and I'll say hey, you know censured. Sold a business in their out of it right I'll say hey. Do you WANNA come in over here to this other business that have made an investment because they know Baas and I can just deploy. I, see what you're doing. You're collecting all the all the valuable pieces. And short of a acquiring them for your for your own companies now. You mentioned that which is now boss capital like now what I have I have people that are specialists in finance and growth and product and shared services and service delivery. They're all the best of the four functional areas that you haven't any tech company. And so we invest in these businesses, and then we helped mean when you make an investment business, you have like a horse in the jockey doors being the product, the Jockey and the entrepreneur. The thing is is that the jockeys never ridden a horse before so if you bet if you bet on the jockey without being there to help, train them ride the horse. You'RE GONNA lose. They're gonNA fall off the Horse, and then they're gonNA ask for money. The investors going to say no, this is how a lot of business fail. So we do. Is We go in, and we understand by doing the diagnostics what our contribution has to be for this to work? And then we align ourselves with the entrepreneur, and we add in the areas that they need help and then train the the jockey to become a masterful jockey. Declan ride the product. Ride the horse right so that's kind of like our our Mo. Okay, so did you because you have all this practical application, you have all this real world experience and you've you've had it since a young age. Did you ever go to school for anything? Specific business, related or even tech technically related? No, this is what's really funny. Right so I grew up about half my life in the bay area, and then half my life in this era called Grass Valley, which is in the mountains right before Tahoe. And in that timeframe, I had zero experience. I struggled deeply with school because I have an audit of visual processing, disl- disorder, dyslexia and autism. And during that process I had a really really hard time got kicked out of schools couldn't find anything I mean I. Even tried to join the Navy I mean I tried everything, and then I had i. said look I'm going to default what I've always been able to do. which is make money by doing, you know. Entrepreneurship Because I had done this growing up. You know since as far as I. Remember being on five or six years old selling mistletoe that I would knock out of a tree in front of Safeway. The grocery store, right and sight remember this from way back and so I thought okay. Well you know I'm GonNa just start doing that. And so I started businesses, and eventually the businesses got mature, better and better at it and learned I lick my wounds. Stand up and do it again. I mean you know I got a very analytical in I've figured out a process. That's Bassem showing people that I've just been working on. Since I was eighteen nineteen and it is. I mean it works what have used the whole time, and it's not just it's not my invention. It is a collaboration I think of it as an open source so like if you think about six sigma and Agile and lean and forty x Ogsm, and you could go on and on I. Basically studied all of the operating systems going back for twenty years. And even before that actually all the way down to Dale Carnegie in the seventies, sixty seventies, and then I, I tried and tested everything, and then I found out this works, but it only works at this stage of life cycle business, so you think about business as a maturity model starting out with reactive versus proactive at Level one going all the way out until you about five years later, and that's level five. And I just applied these and I've found out in that process that these things are good, but only used in pieces parts, not the whole thing because you don't want to deploy something like six Sigma you know when you're just starting a business, it's not. It's too early for that. But, maybe you WANNA, look at lean. You, know or or disciplines of execution or something like that, and so I basically you know tested and tried Newsday's when I started to put them together, and then people started adding onto it, and so now it's just become its own thing, right? I have the boss framework, and then people say the most recent was was a crisis management system for covid nineteen. Which you know I've been teaching. The University of Southern California University of San Diego Irvine, the economic, Development Council's the innovation catalyst I mean all these people about this this thing, and so it's just kind of taken on a life of Zone really really cool, and it's totally open I think of it as open source. That's right. I mean and. Supervisor! You're doing that colleges, but is it only applying to the student? They are is like an open forum where people from the community are coming in as well. So Yeah I'm glad you brought that I mean so initially the university. What happened was basically. If you know I I, don't WanNa be paid for any of this right, so It was completely. You know something that I was trying to do just to help entrepreneurs. And so I said listen I'll do it at the university so long as anybody can come. And so now. We have invitations from just in time, so this is a foster children. Entrepreneurship Program the Navy Seals. They have the same call Downer Foundation boots to business, which is the Marine Corps Transition Program. as well as other accelerated debaters can bring people, and then they can come for free. To the university and get get trained up on how it works in what it is and that sort of thing. It's awesome I mean. Is this I mean? It sounds like something that all these these These veterans that are transitioning are this is something that experiencing for the first time and that that made me just think when you were starting. Your First Company added share, not I company, but I guess you. Your first big project assured was that was that sort of an unsaturated space at the time or was that? was that something that you were getting into already? Knowing that other other companies were doing it and you just had a better business model for it. Philly attraction was bigger so phil. What affiliate attraction did is when the affiliate marketing world launched really started, and that was like around ninety nine. I started the first agency in affiliate marketing space, and then I became the first agency to develop a one. System Platform so spoke platform called unity, and then I became the only one to go global opening up offices all over the world, and then that ended up getting acquired in, so it was the first one to be quiet now. At assured was started because you know philly traction was running itself honestly I. I kinda got a little bored and one of the problems that we had was brand compliance, so people were running ads and it wasn't compliant. This is when. I started. Specifically village-based, so I built a platform to find this out for affiliate traction, and then I had all of this interest in sounds like it's going to start selling to other agencies. We ended up selling to agencies and networks and people that were competitors affiliate traction. And then when the acquisition came, they just bought everything, and I became the chief strategy officer, and then the CTO after that. You can get pushed out you got. Well. You didn't even really get consumed. It sounds like you consume them. They paid you to do it. Yeah? It was crazy. The the one of the investors at a big fun told me we want the minot to swallow the whale which I thought was so cool, because my business was so clean, and that's what happened. I spent three years working at the business You know trying to change the entire trajectory of business moving forward in a different strategic role which required me to redesign the product, which is why they made me see Te'o after that. Question about that now did your business model from those two companies play a huge role in what is now? The ball system was the bus system already established. It was it had it had been there, but yeah, no, it played a huge role. In that in that period of time I was able to actually test things for myself united. To say okay and I sit down with my my functional leaders. My C. Suite now sit down with them and I would say listen I. Want to try this I. Want everybody to really try this and do this. Let's see what happens, and we would try it and test it. We did this for like ten years. I mean it was. It was a thorough. The whole test was seventeen years, and we tested all of these things in different ways and different parts of the country in different functional areas and different parts of the business, and then it in. That's where it started really refining itself. Then when I sold and I was at at the company after that pepper jam, which is a long story because it was a carve out rollout turnaround cleanup then. We deployed there and it worked there also right, so it worked on a large scale. And then I started writing about it the whole time I was writing about it and then it's you know. When I became an investor, I started using it in my portfolio companies, and then it was working amazingly there, and then ever all the the investors in the copies I was working on. Said Hey. Can you help me out with this? And then that board would have somebody taking. You got so big that I said look I can't do this I just. I just need to give this to. People need to have a train. The trainer model right, which is now what I'm working on a certification program so that other people can teach it in add to it, and it can take on a life of its own. Yeah I can see that getting I mean with all the work you do with the military and stuff and I mean you've been in college I mean you. You know people in every crevice of every industry and space you could probably get this into some big organizations become something like lean six sigma where you know, it's a staple, and and that sort of a and that sort of regard. Yeah! That's what I'm trying to do. I mean it includes a lot of components. It's just it's just a better program. I had a captain of the Navy who was. In control of the most sophisticated warship say he would taught this to always officers if he was still in the in the navy's retired at the time, I. Mean You know I've used it in a? Congressional candidate campaign. At work there in I've interviewed I've done twelve hundred interviews. I mean the first fighting ring of the Air Force the Navy, the the Navy seals specifically manufacturers investors entrepreneurs. the masters of these different processes. I mean I have really. explored. You know really explored this in in in sort of path to try to find something that is simple enough. In. As low center of maintenance me, one of the problems with a lot of the operating systems out there is that they they take a lot of maintenance. It's hard to make to manage them. You know so I had to try to build something that was really easy to understand and at the same time, really manageable that followed from the point where an starts all the way to the point. Point to exit, and so what I did is I, said okay, we'll. I wanted to figure out. Is Why entrepreneurs failing like? Why are they failing? It's a ninety percent failure rate i. mean that's crazy. There's no other industry on the planet that people say oh. Yeah, ninety percent of the time it fails in. That's acceptable, but for some for some reason in this space, people are cool again. And I was like okay. That's where I gotta start. And then I learned while it's not a matter of why are they failing? The right question is what stages are they failing at which required me to the map out journey? And the journey has three legs to it. Really the first leg is the status of the product and the business, so maybe ideation proof of concept market buyer validation so on so forth, right. And then on the the status journey of the funding right, so you have pre seed funding, seed, funding, series, seed, funding a on, and then the third layer is the status of the the entrepreneurs in that business, so and the business itself. Is it behaving as a business that is? Or reactionary is it stable? Is it not stable? Do they have documented processes in place? Do they not have documented processes in place you all the sort of stuff? And then I was able to sort of do research to figure out where they were failing. So at at what point I did like twelve hundred interviews. So at what point are the? Are The entrepreneurs failing? And then I was able to say okay, so the first point they fail is right at ideation. That's because maybe some of them have bad ideas, so those kind of wash out. After ideation the next stages, you're like okay. The goats accelerator school. Something right. Something validates that the things a good idea after that's the first point of failure, right in the first place they fail, and so then what I did is I took boss in on a DA- pted it. To the points that fail looking all the way out to where they fail at the end, usually because their valuation is too high, they can't find a buyer that sort of stuff, and all those things along the whole journey we plan for at the very beginning in what I call the North Star. which is a process that plans for the journey all the way out to the end, and it's very Agile me. You can change it, but it gives you something so you're directionally correct. Yeah like. Who's going to buy your company and how long it takes in the ideal buyers scenario that kind of thing. Yeah exactly so you you start with the end in mind right so you start with you know if you're taking investor. Money investor hasn't get their money until you sell. Your job is to show. Them is to prove them that when they give you cash. You're not going to give it back, but you're going to give it back at some profit. Right so! What northstar does is it gives you the to of plan out the whole process in the rest of boss including measuring that allows you to align to that, because otherwise you know it's like if you across the ocean and you were two degrees off, be on another continent, so even if you had a norse art, but you didn't have a way to get their guide to make sure that you're on point the whole time you could still be way off. I make sense that totally makes sense in speaking of which in your own process of boss was there ever a major hiccup that you thought was something that needed to be there later realized you know this is the reason why bosses failing so so often are when it does fail. All. This kind of happens all the time I mean. Like even recently with Kovic right, we never had a module in boss. Something that you could roll in like a tool like swatter racy or something you can just roll into boss and put in front of the Northstar for a temporary period of time during crisis. We didn't have anything like that, so what we did is we announce studied the military because the military knows crisis I. Mean They Know Crisis Management? That's that's you know I mean they can set up a hospital in forty eight. Eight hours is just crazy. So went to the military. Like how do they? What are the processes? What are the steps that they go through the to handle crisis, and then the fire department and the Police Department they all handle, have the same basic process, and that's the process that we put together in conjunction with the rest of boss. That's an example and another one would be. I was using stages of boss for a long time without having a North Star at the beginning. And that had. Delayed my exits substantially, so for example if you don't know who you're selling to in what you're building, and how long it's GonNa, take and how much you're planning on selling your business to and all of these little elements that are in the North Star. If you don't know those things, then you don't understand who your buyers right so a buyer. A strategic buyer already has customers, and they've already absorbed the customer acquisition cost for those customers that CACTI LTV is established right. They've already paid for it so essentially in a strategic acquisition. They're not after your customers thereafter your product. So if that's the case, then wouldn't. It makes sense early on to identify who their customers are so while you're acquiring customers. You're acquiring the same customer that they have so that they know when they buy you. There are some their customers are going to buy your products. Simple it's a simple. Yes, Oh, this applies to my entire customer base. Okay or not, maybe not the entire thing, but you know there's already I know. These people are already. Something's these they they already by this kind of stuff. Like? That's the attachment to call attachment rate. So it's extremely important that you you can get forward looking projections. Increase your your multiple. I sold the company. Two months ago for forty, eight, million, seven fifty. They had two point two million in revenue right? You don't get those kind of multiples unless you plan for for the whole three years. That was three or ride. I went in sold in three years right. And that's that's a perfect example of that is where we knew exactly their customers, we for three years to prove their customers so value drivers for in Exeter Growth, margin, and retention right so growth means that you can sell them. People like your product margin means you can do it at Prophet and at scale, and retention means people consistently like your product, incredibly important, especially intact. Attachment rate means that those three things are with the customer that they have so. If you go into business in your like listen, you have twenty five thousand customers, and we showed that we have one hundred fifty of them that meet the same ICP ideal customer profiles. You're twenty five thousand and we've shown growth March retention and therefore attachment rate to your base that raises your multiple, and that's just one benefit. There are other benefits like. Most of the time when I'm looking at deals to figure out what I want to make investments into an I look at like two hundred a month, right? I mean I look at a ton of these things. and. When I look at him, ask him. What is you use of funds like what if I'm gonNA write you a check for a million bucks. What what what are you going to use the money for? And it's the craziest thing is a lot of times. They say oh, we're going to go after sales. I'm like okay. You'RE GONNA. Watch sales hoosier Byron what's their ideal customer profile and they don't know and I'm like you're to spend all this money. And you're going to get you're GONNA get all the way to the end state and then right then you're going to say oh. I need to. Decide on my. At that moment I'm going to sell. Just instead like right now. That doesn't happen. It's just, doesn't it? Doesn't work that way. So what I do is tell them. The other thing, too is that you have to realize that the amount you sell for the amount of your revenue is not the most important thing. It's the multiple. That's the most important thing. Because if you have a million dollars in revenue, and you want access to multiple, you're at one or two million wrath in in an exit price. If you get a ten x multiple, that's substantially changes. It's easier to raise the multiple than to raise the revenue in it cost less to. Die, Lucien and less hassle from investors. In means you can suffer last and make the same amount in size sold companies for. Fifty million where somebody makes two million companies for fifty, million or somebody makes no. And it has to do with how you plan it from the beginning moving out. Let me ask you a question about that. That almost billion dollar deal was that something that you bossed up from the ground up and you knew you were going to attack with a certain. You know with those buyers in mind ahead of time. First of all. I love that bossed up from the ground up thing that's Tesla. Trade market I feel. If I use it. Epic Shit Right there new book. Boss up from the ground, up. So. So yeah, I mean so I did, but you know the first iteration of boss were. I tried six sigma, and I gave all of these things sometimes a month sometimes six months. I mean I really put energy into them. And I like I'll give you an example. Sigma is more of a documentation process, so it doesn't belong early. It's a standardization thing. It works, but it, but it's down the line. Lean works really well. Four disciplines of execution work really well ogsm works really raw ours work really well, you go on and on right each one of these things I tried so yes, I did use boss in them, but it was a lot of learning in. It was a lot of learning. It was when I got to the end of the business when the business were really running smoothly, and I got to see how boss really benefited stuff where I was like. Okay. Now I've got this thing I've got this thing nailed. Really got this nailed, and I was invited to speak at Permira, which is a they have the summit year, and it's a big private equity huge private equity, and I got to speak at their stomach, and it was at that moment. When you know, they started. The senior executives account me saying. Wow, this is really you should write a both about this incredible when I started to go, oh! Okay. You know. It! Was You know I had people from some very large companies IOS from for very large companies details. IOS etc to saying this is incredible, can you? Can you have anything you could write down you know? Do you have any and that's when I started working on the book that was like. Almost four years ago. And the book is done. The book was I finished writing the book and I submitted to Forbes for you know, see if take taken on random house. Penguin for all the normal players and Forbes is like. Yeah, we'll. We'll take it. Just you know. Wow I mean. That's a big deal you know. Just blown away by by that, especially, because I just a horrible writer, but But they went. You know so. They're going through it. Basically you page by page and making adjustments to it. They're making it better. I mean working with them on it. A lost a lot of work, but They're definitely making a better, so it's going to be out now. While cove it. It was supposed to be out at the end of the year. nineteen might push out the the the launch until the first quarter of of next year. And, is it having a special name editor? Are they constantly revising that to? While the the name that that was chosen, before was meet the boss, an agile playbook for startups. but you know they could change that? You know it's kind of. I'm just happy to be a Forbes author. Right so. You want to change name fine. As long as it's on the spine of on the. Exactly right yeah. So I wanted to ask. I mean you mentioned so much about how you need to know who you're going to market it to from jump now, boss capital. Do you ever intend on sale that? No I mean so. That's an interesting story. So what happened like I was telling you earlier. I would work with investors, and then they would say hey. Can you work with now this other deal? So it started out with in the Sky Thomason. We just made this investment into this company. Ourselves and I was working on the deal and the deal came to an exit, and then everybody was like. Hey, we wanna work with you. And now there's twenty seven investors in the group, but they're seven in the course of their seven of us that are all friends that really run up. Be Capital Partners but the other investors are on the outside that just make investments into deal, so it's so good now that pretty much. If I say I'm going to do a deal, you can raise. Everybody else will just WanNa. Do the deal because I haven't lost one yet. Okay, and I know that you said you were trying to make it so people could use it on their own. So are you, are you? You don't ever have you don't have an exit strategy plan for for the future of any sort when you just kinda. WanNa decide that you're done with the business industry and go get your pick your island out of the Pacific and hang out. You know I thought it was going to go. I actually was looking at islands. But After this cove it nineteen thing I'm like you know what I don't think I could hang. You lose my mind so now I. Mean You know my big thing is philanthropy? I'm really into trying to help right now. I'm trying to help more entrepreneur succeed. I have a lot of other things on my website. There's a whole list of the places I give to. I noticed that when I make a millionaire I try to make millionaires right multimillionaires whatever you WANNA call which is State. Everybody's like Oh billion billion. Okay? Calm Down, calm down. Jat Right? A multimillionaire is still a big deal. People just because you hear billionaire, you know going around all of desert four hundred. Okay, so calm down. Yeah, Really Orient of people on the. Four hundred people. Oh, you know and so you know I'm really putting a lot of effort into trying to help entrepreneurs in growing this Boston to take on its own life. You know I mean I feel like I. And I noticed for sure because I did it right personally as an entrepreneuring also as an investor that these other processes. They're good, but they're not good in independently. They're good as as one unit working together, and then they're. They're missing some really key elements that I added to it. And, then they're all in their from everywhere. It's not just business it. Software development its manufacturing its military. It's fire first responders. I mean there're pieces that you can come together. Which is what I've done over the last twenty years to create something that is very foolproof. You know in it allows you to sort of it allows enough flexibility the problem. A lot of these systems are they're so rigid nature. They're not built to be improved on. you know in the benefit abouts open source is that somebody starts with a framework, and then they allow other people to build onto that framework. And in this day and age everything from video games to software works this way. So why would methodologies in framework not work that way? And that's one of the things that I really wanted to change I wanted to make and say look if somebody's got a better idea than something I've proposed. Let let's look at it. Let's you know. Let's use it if it's better because. It's one of the rules of boss. Right is principal over position meaning your after the outcome, the principle of not the position, not your way of accomplishing something, but the best way, and so I have to step you know behind boss, and let lead the way with other people and let my ID's ideas marinate with Let them choose what the best route is. The proof in the pudding, the analytics if it works better at works better in the I guess the first step towards being able to allow that sort of that been diagram where everything meets in the middle is. Is You stepping back and let the machine be the machine at it's intended to be. Yeah, I mean like I. Tell my founders this less. When you build a product at first, you're building a product based on the information. You have in your vision. But the second iteration in moving forward is based on the customers direct feedback. They tell you what they want. So why would you build a process? That didn't work that way right? So that's a major modification in in in you know in addition to the fact that it includes all these different pieces I mean it's really robust. There's five stages and you know there's gates that allow you to move from level one to level. Level two and it's. It's all built out. It's on the website and I'm I. Work Really Hard to produce content for people at my own cost to give away free tell people understand it in different ways right because of my visual processing disorder way I digest information consumer information is not necessarily the same as other people cy produce it in doing podcast to produce videos, and we produce it in articles and. Every call it watch, listen read write those three ways that people bring information end, so I produced the same information in all three. So that people can get it. You Know Digest the information. It can be really helpful for them. That's all that. Reminds, me of you know there's there's more than one way to learn, and not everyone learns the same. Some people use all three ways to learn, so there's no telling who's GonNa need to use what in order to get that message across how you're intending it That's interesting when I watched the data. That's what happens. They still start with what they prefer this. What Mike is what? I think anyway because somebody will start in one, and then they'll go. They do all three of them. You know it's. It's really interesting. Like I'm not a I'm a visual learner. And you audible learners and kinesthetic learners. So where do I start There's no answer for that was just what how it's picked up whatever you know, math is not something that people can be. You know good in a classroom at, but you hey, you let them practice at it. Can Aesthetically for you know week or so before test? Hey, what are you? You know they ended up learning on their own. Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting I. Mean I've used boss in congressional campaigns with a bunch of campaign managers and stuff that are trying to go after getting a congressman or senator elected, and that process was really interesting right, and then I used it again with the Navy seals that were getting out of the navy. Navy seals. You know bad acids right? who were wanted to go on entrepreneurship and they absorbed at a different way so i? Feel like I have it now in a way that dat it. It seems like it works well for everybody I even worked on a project for a bunch of. Women that were abused A and we're building small businesses right, so they had this dream board session where they put together. What they wanted to do, and I had them I put them through boss, and it worked really well, and I got all these great feedback, and they all started these little businesses, and you know so it's just it's fascinating, I! Mean I've used it to run a marathon? And I wrote a bicycle from San Francisco to sub to L. A. which was like five hundred twenty five miles. You know I mean. It's just it's A. It's a way of getting something done starting with what you want to accomplish and what that actually looks like. What does success actually look like? What does it feel like you know? And then you put that in there and you align yourself to that you know as as a GPS, so I give people this analogy. Sometimes. I say listen. If you were trying to get from somebody's house from Your House to somebody else's house. You didn't have a GPS. How would you get there yet? No Map. You wouldn't have any way to get. The right could be directionally in the right. City, but you'd never get there and you. Know the fastest way to get there or any obstacles you have or lefts, rights traffic, so and so forth, and so what boss does is gives you that GPS right and gives you the guidance on how to get there and it tells you. Win You're going to arrive based on your current patients on and so forth so it's very uniquely suited for for startups it works for bigger companies, but uniquely serves suited for startups to exit. That reminds me now. You may not know where you're going, but you know they're always isn't Northstar you just look up? That was the idea of sitting at the beach meditating and that's when that. Particular piece came to me sitting at the Beach Mediterranean now. Look at that. Bright Northstar just every agency that no matter where you are been at all over the world seeing the Northstar. That's it that's it. At people have to have North Star, and then I started breaking down all the pieces based on the research had. It's pretty It's been a really fun. Process and I'm yeah. I'm happy to actually. I have a visual audio or audio in kinesthetic learner like. Some people have mentioned earlier, but the boss process I'm picking it up audibly I kinda liked. This ears on approach from the from the boss himself I really do appreciate it and Greg as the episode comes to an end I want to ask on behalf of the rest of our. I mean maybe not audible listeners, but those that are audibly attentive. Etta moment entrepreneurs out there that are thinking about starting that first billion dollar business that might just be a million dollar business, or you know might be debt that ninety percents that doesn't utilize the boss system like you have in never taking a hit now, when and if they are successful at it and they think. Think this is going to be big that million dollar and game that I had I'm getting closer and closer. What is something that the entrepreneurs that you have dealt with and had business with have done wrong? Personally, maybe not what their business plan, but something that didn't make them appealing to buyers that our listeners should keep in mind as they're moving forward on their entrepreneurial journeys. One thing is what I brought up earlier. That's the most common thing, right. Aligning your ideal buyer profile to you. Part of your ideal profile is your ideal customer profile so making sure that you in the buyer of your company have the same profile. Second Partnerships turned into acquisitions. So you want to move to the partnership and then moved from the partnership acquisition, because a buyer wants to know if the technology will integrate, and if the culture will integrate, and if you start with a partnership, which require some integration by default, you're GonNa have some cultural integration, and that'll check that box for them so now you've got your and I'm not talking about one by. You can do this with multiple. You gotTa Byron. Mind you make sure the customers match the culture in the technology works well, and you're on your way to exit. The, other thing I would say is that. You don't want to start with your evaluation being too high. You know this is probably the most Tom thing. I hear, somebody says Oh. I have a ten million valuation there in a series seed round, and I'm thinking okay. You'RE NOT GONNA sell for three to five years. You're going to have to do at least three more rounds and by the time you get to an exit. Your company's going to be worth like fifty million dollars. Is that possible. Does that look real now? I would also. Want to put a word of caution out there. I hear people always say you know. This is a billion dollar idea. An investor when somebody says that I just WanNa hang up the phone. And the reason, why is because? Do you know how as a Unicorn at you know? How many UNICORNS in the entire United States of America has happened in the last twenty four months? One hundred and thirteen. UNICORNS, but that that's not a lot of. Ideas. How many it took for that hundred and thirteen to happen tens of thousands hundreds of thousands. Yeah, that's exactly what I have. That's for every billion dollar idea there are. Thousands that you have a better chance of winning, the lottery excited a better chance of getting hit by lightning in your house. So the other thing is that a business of there's a huge gap right when you get to fifty. Million from fifty million on is a very challenging world. Usually entrepreneur can't handle the business they have to step out of the business is very rare I like to exit around fifty million, because that's the good plants where you can still use your same entrepreneurs come into the deal. They're realistic acquisitions. That kind of stuff make sense. Do a bunch of base hits not a home run. Home runs a risky. It you do your bay sets in. You'll get there that way. Greg I want to thank you for coming on the House. March for newer has been an absolute pleasure having you. Thank you? Now a major takeaways for today's episode. Think about where you want to take the company from the moment of conception. Really keep your eyes on that Gull. Find Your northstar like reckless saying it's one thing to start a business with vision of scaling it into the next Google Apple, or Walmart, whatever the case may be, but for some the real entrepreneurial journey lies within the multiple six seven eight exits fine, which side of the fence you're on and be mindful when you're taking those steps in submitting the path that lays before your company what you're going to dedicate yourself to. On Mondays episode you can look forward to an entrepreneur that has chosen a line of profession that is really a passionate is one that perfects the work home balance, and is something that he does not consider a job, even though he's working and on his business during the week and weekends, the Entrepreneurial Freedom, a lot of us gets are are motivated by. We decide to change the way we're living. Kevin winning ten of the employees. Art Program is doing that all that more on Monday. Be Safe and enjoy your weekend, everyone. Congratulations everyone. You made it to the end of the show before we get out of here today. We're GONNA. Leave off the word from our sponsor leatherback year home to the world's safest backpack, the only bag that goes from backpack the profession seconds all their bags are rated for level threat that ballistic standard of resistance, using the US ten most of the world today. Get Yours now at leatherback year, DOT, com.