What Difference Does It Make: 1984 Music Countdown with Carmel Holt
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Welcome to the. What difference. does it make podcasts. A proud member of the pantheon. Podcast families go pantheon in t. We're continuing our countdown. This week we are going from number ninety two number eighty one of the countdown from nineteen eighty-four and we are doing the one zero six point seven pop songs of that year. Just kind of taking a look at it in the past. We've been holly i and now we're starting to invite in some of our favorite people and this is certainly the case. I've been a big fan of carmel. Halts for a long time. I listened to her at wf uv and just her Her presence and just her just engagement with with the music. It was wonderful it was always a treat to hear her voice and i was actually kind of disappointed when she left. What what's going on was happening. Why are you. Why are you ripping carmel away from me. But as it turns out is she. She's got plans. She is actually as i opened up my email yesterday. The number eight most powerful person in the triple a universe according to according to paul mars lack and his top twenty two. This celebrated this is carmel. Holt of the syndicated radio. Show xiros so welcome carmel. Thank you so much nick. Great to be here. Thank you dave. Hi holly new. Thank you so much for all those kind words. Save on like start crying again crying for tears sir. Happy tears. that's what i'm saying. Yes yes that's so nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah so yeah. Cool thing though now is with a syndicated show is people not necessarily in new york all over the country. You can hear you tell us a little bit about xiros. What is the idea behind it. what i did was basically take the two things that i know which is play listed music and interviewing and put them together into an hour show whose mission is to amplify and celebrate women in music but in a way that raises awareness about the lack of quality on the airwaves both on the hosting side and the programming side. Those behind the scenes on the mike at the radio stations and also in the playlist and in the music business general. And so what i am to do is to provide listeners. This opportunity to hear something that they don't normally hear there's all these baked in rules for some reason of programming where you're not supposed to play two women on the air back to back you're not supposed to have two female deejays on the air back to back. This is somewhere some. I don't know how this came into being but this has been a rule And so I'm trying to subvert that With this show and also just give listeners. You know because it's like you don't even know this is so baked in. You've always heard it this way. You're not even aware that it's something that you're missing so Rather than just trying to be an echo chamber of like okay. This is for for ladies. This is really for everybody. i'm just saying. Hey there's all this music that you're not hearing. Because of these strange baked in rules music would be better for everybody if it was a more level playing field. There's also a a new show launching in the spring back circling back to sonos based on their player which will be launching in march. Well same team. Same theme different different format awesome. That's very exciting. Yeah when did you become aware of the rule because you were music. Director know this unwritten rule that everyone knows about but and you know of course you probably. Your first question is why. And they'll so bizarre. I don't know i never have yet been able to find out the reason why you know it's interesting because so i'll answer your first question. When did i first become aware of it. I was aware of it. Basically from the beginning started in radio right out of college and I was a musician myself. And so i was on the other side of things where i was already coming up against barriers and challenges and frustrations and then when i got into radio i learned. Oh wow wait. This is like not any different from being over there over here and it's still that way but yeah i mean i myself. Unfortunately because i didn't get to make the rules. I just had to follow them. You know i programmed radio station for you now for eight years in one place and then six years in another and had to follow those rules myself and it was painful to do so rita. Houston your was your pd. You worked with her. Was this a conversation you had between the two of you. You must have like you know. I really want. This is an artist. I love. Why can't we play here or why can't you know there are four new artists this week. That are all women. I'd love to play all them. Why can't i play them on my show in you know at this time. So what was that discussion. Well the radio station As most aaa stations are Are programmed programmed re. Dj's don't have. There are a few exceptions to this. You know i think k. xp and maybe the current minneapolis have a much more open playlist but in in most cases radio. This is kind of like the peek behind the curtain. There is a music director. That's plugging in you. Know there's there's a program and new songs get added as well as old ones and there's percentages that are calculated by a program. Then there's a human element of like massaging those things and making sure that things sound good right but basically You're dealing with you know a stack of paper your logs every day and the music is already loaded in for you i did. I had very very little say in what actually got played on the air and music meetings where i sat in a room with three or four. Other people Yeah unfortunately i never got a good explanation and those rules were always pretty much followed. I mean i think f uv of any station You know that. I knew of Was the most adventurous in that way. In terms of gender balance and over. I know it was something that really cared about. But we still ended up kind of following that rule More or less. I'm taking on a project this week. Dave i'm gonna make some calls in Really wanna know where this originated in why like an amendment to the constitution. Why can't this be changed people. When he people's listening is different. You know if we were listening when we listen to the radio now it is no longer jarring to hear two women in a row to females at around. As far as jocks go than the average listener wouldn't really notice it. I will say that Two things one is that ninety percent of program directors ninety nine zero ninety percent of program directors at radio stations across formats are male and white and also because in radio. We were in a game where even public radio ratings scame. There's this whole thing about getting money. It's weird radio after make money and so what ends up happening is because of the idea that familiarity builds right. It builds Allegiance in your listeners. Builds comfort people come back because they want to hear things that they've heard and they want to discover new music when there's market research done and people are not used to hearing female voices. What do you think is going to happen. What songs do you think are going to quote unquote test. Well if they are not accustomed to hearing female voices on the air. Do you think that they're going to rate higher. Something that they feel comfortable with with a male voice because they're more accustomed to hearing that or do you think that they're going to rate higher female voice. What do you think is going to happen. It's the logical thing so we end up in the self perpetuating pattern now where the suits consultants etcetera say. But we've done the research meals. Just don't test well and there you go it just kind of perpetuates and perpetuates so then the then. The program directors can wash their hands. And say. I don't know. I mean we would love to but we have to sell it and sell it. That's right yeah so so we have some. You know we have some work to do. I think were were in a better place now than ever. And fortunately unfortunately with all of the pushing in the past year during the pandemic and black lives matter for diversity and inclusion. This conversation is up in a big way and that gives me hope you know. I think that people are way more aware and open to having these conversations and open to you know kind of doing some self reflection. I'm also doing a study. with A few women from the uk and And here in the states to actually get statistics on this Because it's one thing to kind of have anecdotal evidence and then it's a whole other thing to actually have the hard numbers. Let's actually analyze this. So we're gonna look at the last five years of airplay across formats every format that we can touch In the united states in radio and actually see what's happening there. That's fantastic to here. That i would love to hear the results. When it said said and done it will be published. I promise yes. I'm sure all right right so yes let's take a turn to. Let's go back in time and so here. Yeah i know we're gonna whatever yeah we're gonna talk about some of these songs that were played on k. Roku in the early eighties it. Actually let's go back a little bit for you. Mel what What was your first radio station that you remember or personality. What did you listen to like when on the car going to whatever like middle school or whatever what was happening. I grew up in a house. I grew up in an npr household was the. I'm first generation. My parents were both jewish from israel in europe and bills into classical music and npr news. That was it. So i grew up with the all things considered that was my childhood soundtrack. There there's the funk. But i discovered popular music when i was probably five or six because i was gifted a rack system for my birthday. That was like a radio shack with the turntable on the top. And the tuner on the front and eight track and so. That's where i started to listen to more popular music and i don't remember specific person the only personality i remember. I remember to wolfman jack and a doctor. Demento both of them l. When casey kasem syndicated much like yourself. You're you're going down the case route. This is exciting. Maybe we'll have a shiro's countdown every week. Do you remember like the i. I love to ask the first album or single. Maybe maybe a poster that you had up on your wall. Okay no posters. That wasn't really allowed butts. But but but i do remember the first album that i actually bought. My first records were all beatles. Records handed down for my big sisters Grew up on the beatles. But the first album. That i actually went to a record store. Bought was madonna's first record. Is that right about that choice. Still and you still have it. Yes yeah i do. Actually good i have that. And speaking of nineteen eighty-four. I do have my original copy of prince purple rain. Did you get to see a rated r. Movie you know that was raided art that you see it in the in the theaters are i don't know i. It was many years later. That i actually saw the movie too young. It's tough to watch now. Sometimes it's a little oil misogynistic but still like everything in the eighties. I know go back but not uncommon to phones in the eyes but still yeah but those performances are amazing. Okay we're talking to our favorite shiro. That's carmel holtz and we will take up eight welcome back. To what difference does it make and our very special guest on this episode carmel. Holt okay enough chitchat. Get to the heads down. The countdown begins all right. So we start with number ninety. This is lamarche. that's love that it is. This is the first of three songs that are on the k rock list. And i will ask holly and you can. You can chime in if you like. K rock now has their rock the eighties format and they paired it down to eighty songs. So they they've chopped off twenty five twenty six point seven songs. I'd like to quiz to see if she thinks it's still on the list if it's still relevant did you. By the way. I gave you a cheat. Mike marrone tossed it aside did you. Did you study ecorse okay. Good pair show craft good been trained to prep always. Of course go all right. Good purpose right did not know this band blancmange. This band was again Really big and especially in eighty four. This was the the pd back. Then was freddy snakeskin and he found a lot of his albums through just digging through crates of albums and he liked to go through the name. Right yeah yeah really. I'm sure she gets thrown out but he he liked going through the imports. It was k. Rock played a lot of imports. And so this was one of those and it kind of it was Something that l. a. Took to where did you. What did you think of this song me. Yes i loved it. Yeah loved it. And then and then i kind of went down the rabbit hole like oh this. Oh like really cool and What did i i was like. Oh yeah they're kind of like Like a poor man's depeche mode or something. This was actually be the. Yeah they start actually around the same time they were coming up so yeah yeah he can fill last year. Wasn't it fifty do job. that's right. Well yeah and and how. I had wet. What are your thoughts. Do you remember this on song. I am gonna reiterate again. It's so funny. I left nineteen eighty-four music in rock. It reminds me how much i love music. It reminds me of songs that i have long since forgotten and i look i. I liked some of the videos. Couldn't find designs. I listen to but videos. Couldn't find 'cause i love looking at them to you. Know a good mullet and hair now but did you did you this up. Yeah i think Carmel hit the nail on the head with a poor man's depeche mode but the this album. I think they were. They were building up this this following an l. a. and family seem. Yeah but they see. This wasn't played on mtv so it felt like uniquely ours. I think. And that's i think that's kind of why there are three songs from blue on this. This for wondered that too. I was like maybe this was a west coast thing because i didn't really but anyway it. It wouldn't have been odd for me not to be aware of them from this time but i will say That there's a lot of eighties music. That i missed I want to save the first time round. I'm putting that in air quotes then. Once i became programmer and radio personality. I rediscovered or discovered for the first time so much like i. I kind of had a renewed love affair with the eighties. Because i was i was like i wish that i was there. You know 'cause. I just two little there but yeah that's kind of the fun thing especially when you hear new music. There's a lot of new artists coming out and it reminds you of something you've heard long ago and then like oh. Yeah that that touched on you know. This band did that a long time ago. And they're doing their own unique takes. It's it's fun and then and that's one of the reasons we do. This is because it is kind of lost classics. So i will add collie is this song. Still on the charts. Now it's not. What do you think carmel would still be on the list with this song. Still be on the list. The pared-down list the list of eight became rocks on. Do you think this one is still under. Did a fall off. No i don't think so. That is correct. This is no longer on the list. I will say though. There are going to be some surprises. Some songs you might think would be on our list like this but They took off completely. Okay all right. So this takes okay holly. Did you want to say something. You say comment that carmel made about depeche mode. We'll find that in a lot of these songs are reminiscent of depeche mode. Yeah that's that. That is not surprising. But what's interesting is like how there can be you know of a moment of an era so many bands kind of like tapping into the same. Whatever it is in the in the air. You wanna say right but also some of it just being purely a time. Capsule of what instruments were these instruments like synthesizers things were like evolving and there was the newest and this right so everyone was kind of like grabbed this gravitational pull towards synthesize music and electronic music. And i don't know like depeche mode. Why did they rise to the top versus ball. Mosh like who knows right is at the songs was it. The look was at the marketing. Yes yes yes and. He looked at some bands win over the others. If they all kind of are feeding from the same have you looked at. They've gone have you seen him. Have you seen like a constant. Not this humble brag. I interviewed dave. I'm not is the nicest person ever so amazing. He's so mazing he also is still handsome. Yeah i of. Years ago. I saw them live at the hollywood bowl and i hadn't seen them in many many many years and they were put on such a great. Show your doubts about Bans being able to put on a great show. You're used to seeing you know five piece guitar two guitars and they put on such a fantastic show And his voices their voices are still great. Amazing yet great songs to it is the power of the front right to the top. Okay alright we yeah. We answered our questions. A great songs and greet frontman great performances and sincere so wonderful. That takes us up to number eighty nine. Now we talk about the look and so this this kind of crack me up looking at the video for elvis costello's the only flame in town. It was very very much eighties. This is from an album called goodbye cruel world. And i don't know if you've ever bought if you the nine hundred ninety five cd reissue. Elvis says congratulations. You just bought the worst. Elvis costello album ever released but break-up at the time extra bad feelings about it but this was the attractions this yeah yeah this was. This was the last album i think. What the full lineup of elvis gusto and the attractions problems with recording the album with direction they want to go but i do like this on the only flaming town. You remember this song carmel. Now not at all not at all not only do i not remember it but it never you know of all the elvis costello you know catalog. It's never shown up in a playlist. I it was completely off my radar. That sounds about right. Because i mean i think this is an album as i just said that. He wasn't that proud of so like on reissues or greatest hits. There's something you know. His his cadillac is so huge and so strong that even though this was a charming song i mean a upon listening to it now for some reason. I put this out of my mind. It's features daryl hall on Background vocals either. Yeah that is a very good trivia. Well actually he is in the video as well. So it's kind of funny just seeing them interacting together and it's it is kind of time with a sax solo in all that stuff. It's super eighties. So as someone. Who doesn't remember that song. And probably as i i'm going to assume you love elvis costello and his catalog what court. Yeah all right. So i liked the song okay. It didn't like floor me. I wasn't like ooh hidden gem that i now discovered it was fine. It was now the song. Yeah completely completely. Yep pretender in philadelphia. And you're grading sean cokely's Talking about okay. So i think that's funny For for a little inside baseball. But there's an annual conference in philadelphia at w. x. Pin and our friend. Sean coakley does these music meetings. Whereby it's so fun actually. It's my favorite thing He plays these snippets of new songs. Sometimes it's by new artists. Sometimes it's by artists. We don't know but he doesn't reveal who it is or what the song title is or anything about it. We just listen to like a snippet and then everybody has these cards. And we rate them raider record It can get pretty interesting. People get like really aggro sometimes. Anyway i was was putting up a card for this. I would probably give it a five. Yeah there you go all right. That's what we say when something is finally said. Yeah it's it's just fine perfectly acceptable. It's fine it's a it's a song. It's it's a little bit more than just a song. Maybe i should give it a six. It was a fine because it's elvis. It becomes a six. Yes okay all right. So hollywood you said as i know you remember this song and you have probably some nice memories of it. Of course they do. It is not my favorite elvis song. And i can go either way whether it is on the tug eighty. I wanna say. I want to say yes. Wanna say yes are so you are saying okay. This is no longer on the list. Oh okay when for two but do you like. Do you still like the song. I mean does this i i would. I would imagine you'd think more of it because we've heard numerous times in the eighties. Cindy i think i loved it because it was an elvis song. I was just i. May i was programmed to. Because i love him a little better than fine for me so i was happy to hear it again because i hadn't heard it in a long time but i don't love it like i said it's not i. I like it a lot. They don't let it a little specific. Sure i think after punch the clock. And everyday i write the book so this is like their next album and those are those are high. Those are high marks to run exactly. It's okay to have a little slump. There has done a lot of great work right bad not getting super excited about it but but it's okay. Yeah he was making the transition as well. You know you had those those new waves you know those those first four records and now he's going to like this smooth jazz type salad so it's you know which which was of that of the mid eighties. That was kind of what everyone was going for. Just hit the nail on the head. He feels about it. Why do we have to feel bad about not getting so excited. We should fine move up moving on moving on all right number. Eighty eight general public general public. This is by the band. General public and the song is called general public. Holly do you remember this song. of course i do. I love the sun. I liked general public. Steve in rankin roger their sound will always be significant of the time. Also let them. I remember the song confronted video. This wasn't a single. This was against iraq. Did they like to general public. Kind of lamarche. This was the first couple songs singles hit. And so what else can we play and they. They like to dig into the album and play something deeper and so. That's that's where this came around. This was not something that was familiar. With general public was kind of like a super banned in a way because they're members of dixies midnight runners Tenderness that's the one. Everybody knows no they to this right right. And i didn't even as i looked on wikipedia and i didn't realize that jones was in the band and credited in the album for For i don't know what he played on. Mc jones of the clash was was in general public for a little bit of time. Yeah i was surprised. Also i had no idea so cheat notes i asked okay so this is general public and the song is general public. How many other songs that reference themselves can you name any. There's a lot there are. Yeah there's totally a lot. I mean you just mentioned mick jones so there is like this. Is radio clash If that cheer. I'll give you credit. Can't say that company bad company The stray cat strut from by a stray cats. I cleaned killer queen wilco wilco. The song and wilco the album. The monkeys the monkeys. What else Bad religion bad religion. Belen have self referential song black sabbath Black sabbath black sabbath the damn yankees green day Are you just doing this. Call them the gang. yeah. I didn't know that. But i know that we would also accept they might be giants. Motor had big country in a bright. I will say. I have a little bit of an advantage here because i used to do. I used to do with themed Our called the mix tape. And also i did this when i was at. Wgst it was called something else. But like a noontime request. Show and i would do themes everyone smell and i would like tell listeners to like this was one that i loved and always did really well And so i've i've done this exercise more than once one marries so yes you did very well. I'm very impressed. Lovat okay so. I'm going to ask you holly. Is this still on the list. And you say no are they. Don't even get your take on this song. Carmel did you. would you think of this school. General public yeah. I mean i just i just don't know i just don't know there anything beyond. I've never take the deep dive so but yeah school english english feet. Yes but i didn't again. That was something that i discovered later. I wasn't. They weren't on my radar when i was a kid. When did you start going back. Usually you're into your own music for you know as as as you're a teenager and then sometimes in college you start going back when when was it worry like starting to discover different eighty s music or i mean probably when i started working. Wgst because you know that was in the nineties and you know so our golds were from the eighties and the this. The radio station started in the eighties. So so yeah. That was and i started listening to that radio station when i was in college Before i started working there so yeah that was when you know all kinds of things opened up to me. And i became friends with nic. Harcourt and you know he had the whole like british thing you know. So yeah that's when. I started to kind of get an education of like you know eighty s but like cool eighties music. That wasn't pop nick and introduce you to blow martian. That was that. I can remember any. Yeah yeah it's funny that you say that about pop music. Because stephen i have have conversation. I have to have distinguished for him and he continues to bring it up. I'm a fan of eighty s. New wave pop. Music was funny for me in the eighties. Let's say and for me it's so you know And some of its ages. Well you know better than others just saying that you know for me pop. Music is style gic from the eighties. Because that was what was on the radio. When i was a kid but yeah also there you know for me i like so i was like i said ten eleven in nineteen eighty-four and then by the time so those preteen when i became a teenager my whole lens for what i was listening to went further back so i wasn't even like plugged in to eighty s music when it was actually happening because i started to get enthralled with sixties and seventies music. I became a hippie dead head. So i was like her into the grateful. Dead and janice jackson allman brothers and all that stuff so again. I kind of like missed a lot like i remember my friends being like super super psyched about you too and i was just like but it's nice that you get to discover it later on a so you discover a whole is a catch up new whenever you discover it. It's so exciting. Even if you're not in the same moment with it so so you did jump in the van and you went The dead tour okay. Are you kidding me you man. I need a miracle. Come on me. I got many believe me spun. I i. I consider myself very lucky. That's very cool okay anyway. General public is not on the list anymore. We'll keep going. Let's keep moving along number ninety. Seven the psychedelic furs heaven. Wow carmel melted. Wow that was pretty cool over this. Delic fur's okay so for me you do too. I love an and like pretty in pink. Are you kidding me like that. Movie like psychedelic burs. I just have this association to like john hughes all those movies breakfast love and pretty paying and so. It's kind of an automatic. Like i just love it. I love his voice so much. I agree with you in tabby memories that these also they're like they're intertwined. You touched on pretty pretty in pink. Who who is your guy in pretty in pink are you did you. Did you relate to duckie or are you a spader guy what You know. I love duck. Yeah okay kidding. Good call okay the underdog i know but spader have. The hair had everything he had the car. Everything going on there now. Okay but you know what he was a player. You recognize that immediately. Okay is hot that he was a player. very good. yeah. I think we all agree that having is is pretty spectacular so we all love the song. Is this song. Still on the charts. Everybody yes yeah yeah. Of course yeah. All right very good go even further. I know there will be more psychedelic for songs on the chart that none of them have dropped us. Okay could they all right so speaking of movies we move onto number eighty six panoramas cruel summer. Okay this song. I remember from one kid. Of course you didn't. I saw this in the theater to love it so much so so much. It definitely sounds really dated so. I don't think that this song is an example of something that's aged well but i feel like if somebody were to like cover it or do a remix it would totally chart in our people out. There know an essence submitted. A cover of this. That's not who i'm thinking. More like the xx you or like billie eilish or scum kind of a bedroom type of sound. Yeah actually banana rama in the they did another version of this song like a new jack. Swing kind of sounds like bill. Bill de vos poison chartered at that cruel sa- but anyway they they've done. They've remixed it a little bit. But i'm sure yeah. Someone can give a a good spin to that song. Recommend i know this big in our house but this is a good. It's a good cover. It's also about and she has a great way me as a just a beautiful voice. I'll say again. I anything banana. Madonna's i understand. I agree with you about it. Being a little bit dated. I love them so much. I wanted to them. When i was living in the eighties. Wanted to be them. They were just so cool in their closing their hair and they were coolest so anything probably could have come out of their mouths than i would have loved. The song made up to number nine in the. Us it's number forty four as vh1 made it the forty fourth. Most popular song of the eighties lives on and thanks to karate kid Have you watched. Are you watching cobra kai did you watch cobra. Kai i don't know. I i might have to try again like i. Just got so. Like grossed out the first episode. I was like oh i don't know i've heard it's really good though. Yeah okay so karate kid which the movie we love and still have fond memories of love. Is it still. Is this song still on the list. Carmel what do you think like. I said i love this song. I n and its own astaldi for me. But i i think as it is right now. It doesn't age. Well all right for gen-x this this age is extremely well. It's now it was number. Eighty six back in eighty four now in this revised list. It's at number twenty two so how we felt for them. Yes we're good. People have a certain age can never get enough of this song. Which which we kind of mentioned okay. So let's keep going number. Eighty five is a flock of seagulls. The more you live the more you love and this was this is this will be our farewell to ever mentioning a flock of seagulls again. This was their last last charting song but still pretty good. I mean did you give it a listen carmel. The black of siegel song. Yeah of course. What did you think of it. I think i thought like okay. This sounds like again. It was one of those like general public. Where i don't really know the cannon like and i'm an appreciator not necessarily like an enormous fan so it's hard for me to comment on and really feel like i'm coming from educated place purely from a sonic standpoint. I mean i think it's a cool song. I've heard other songs by them. That i think might be. I mean like they're hit like you know run right iraq something about a flock of seagulls. I think it goes the credit. I mean everyone thinks of mice gotten his hair. I think the lead guitarist which i had to look up paul rentals. He has like this great sound that he gave to flock of seagulls. During that that's small period of time very unique. And i really. I think that helps age these songs. Well i think we kind of touched on what what what is aged well and what we can throw away but i think probably because of the guitar sound. It's still kind of draws you in. And i really. I really liked the song still hollywood. I had forgotten how much i liked the song as on better than iran. Maybe iran just ran. Its course with me by really like this song. And you're right about the sound at the video from the first note. I just totally took me back. There's just something about it as a. I think it's something like The psych firs. When you hear heaven like those. I sounds something that folks great memories and i think that the of seagulls kind of touched on that now saying that is this on the list. I wanted to be. But i don't think it is. I'm gonna assume. Carmel thinks the same thing and i'm going to tell you that. Yes it is not his no longer on the list number. Eighty four eurythmics. Who's that girl. I just can't even with a song. Next are so good. Like i think a is it fair to say that they're underrated now like i feel like somehow they don't get the shine that they should but they are Mazing and dave stewart's amazing. They're both like what a power couple. What a lake. It's it's just. It's incredible and i feel like their music really does stand up. I can't believe an out also it. It made me remember. I cannot remember. But i i remembered not from that time but like remembered from recent memory that they released two albums in nineteen eighty. Three that it was here comes the rain again and touch. Keep both came out in nineteen eighty. Three which is like it's like bonkers and so her who's that girl is actually from nineteen. Eighty-three it's not an technically not in one thousand nine hundred four song just to be annoying about it but But yeah i bring it bring it anything. Eurythmics bring it. As far as i'm concerned. This is an awesome song. And i love the video. Video is really great. Especially when we first met annie lennox so kind of this androgynous look and so the video kind of touch on that a little bit more. She's dressed up as elvis and kind of seducing the singer They kind of play off each other. And there's dave stewart being you know kind of as i think he played like love interest. But it's fun because you look in you. Recognize a number of the of his people are sitting at the table with dave. It's a number of like old eighties artists. Some members of panorama rama hazel o'connor. Are you familiar with hazel. O'connor at all she's worth looking into. She's a very power this. There's a song. Eighth day that i think it came on early. Eighty s really great. Great powerful singer. Really good stuff. She's in there. Just a fun fun song that touches on so many different themes and i just love it and i'd like you just can't get enough of it you know. So you mentioned banana. Should i should say he. That's in the video and she actually ended up. Marrying dave stewart appears later interesting. Good tissue eighties turn. Eighty eighty cents kick. Garner is in this video as well from hazy fantasy. Just a stunning beauty. That just happens. Picked a really quick cameo in this video dave's girlfriend. We love this song. Is this song on the list. Yeah criminal aliens. Yes for some reason. This is not on the list. Oh hey rock yes. There's going to be a few. Oh well oh well we move about you know but you can still. I mean it's still played. I think in. I think maybe it's played on classic. Hits stations still and aaa and you could still hear the song different places sweet dreams and here comes the rain again. Those are us missionary man. You know those things are. She's been amazing to follow by the way during the pandemic. I don't know if either of you follow her on instagram. but she's she's really been amazing. Just you know sitting are piano and singing in just you know having these very heartful felt messages to people and Yeah it's been really cool. I will thank you. It's nice yeah. A lot of a lot of artists are kind of trying to reach out. I think that's been one of the advantages now is like ours trying to discover ways to connect and through social media. We've kind of even though it's not the same as seeing someone live and in person on stage but it kind of feels a little at times with and you're you're literally stepping inside their house and so yeah. Yeah lot of lot of like the third wall. Kinda come down. So yeah okay. So let's move onto number eighty three the thompson twins. Doctor dr love it. You've have very fond memories of thompson. Twins totally totally. This is not the song though. I mean i like. I really really liked the song lot but this is not the song for me. It's off the out into the gap was the album that spawned all these hits and this was like one. Yeah and it was one of the biggest albums of that year for sure right. It's not hold me. Hold me out which we will which we'll talk about later on this episode but but we are talking doctor doctor and i think this was the song that followed hold now. The follow up single still still very strong and still. I still love hearing this. I think it speaks to the production of the song. That's really really very strong. It's great what about hollywood. yes also night. it's funny. I don't know where running game here but we talked last week about the song with the title track into the gap which i actually liked better miss. I do like the sun. And i happen to think it remains on the top eighty one of the fact when i was looking at just prepping a list. I came up with a few more songs. That compares singer's love to a medical condition soon after theme behind the song. This is the besides that comparison being in love to a medical state right right. That's a good one very good. Which alone is like the sickness and lebas secure. Right that's right. We talked about this last week though. I curious as as someone like a preteen did you thompson. Twins were on the performed on. Live aid did you watch live aid. Do remember that and because the thompson twins on for live eight. I did not watch it now. Okay because this live thompson. Twins saying the beatles revolution and madonna joined them on stage. Show like the thompson. Twins were so big that madonna came on to be on stage with them. Yeah i did not have cable tv so i had to go to like a friend's house to watch. Mtv even and it was like. Wow you know my friends have mtv so yeah no. I didn't. I didn't watch it very good days. We're mtv was obviously things everything was. I miss those days in the portlandia episode where they try to bring back. Mtv i vaguely remember that they like call up like pin field kurt loader. What's her name martha plumpton. They get them all together. Martha plumpton command. Thank you and they they get them all together and like go to the headquarters at viacom and try to make a case for bringing back. Mtv pretty funny you should look it up. Love four was the first year that they did the mtv awards right yes. They still have that award show. Have you tried watching the mtv awards for us. I but what do you think of award show. Would you want like grammy's does that. I will always watch the grammys. Even though i think it's kind of bullshit. But i you know and i'm especially intrigued now that i'm kind of like in this lane where i'm kind of really focused on a equality gender equality and racial equality in music. I'm very very interested in how you know. Just the graham uses been fascinating to watch se steady from from a very kind of like analytical standpoint where the attention gets put who gets what who gets to present who wins who gets the snubs especially especially during that speech or something like that to women to ordinary north. Thank you l. Right it was. It was a right but it was one of the things that kick started me in this direction right. Yeah so that's something. That's that's great where they took. I mean a lot of people took this negative this horrible thing that was spoken on national tv and as and just recognize like. Oh oh. I think it was very positive. Turn this negative into a positive i question. Yeah yeah it was kind of a wake up call. So that's that was very good. So it's it's kind of moving in that direction. let's let's continue our countdown. Which blah again. Guess what we get to talk about. This is a this was actually a b side. Now i'm going to ask you have you back in the day beside the single with i mean maybe a ds t where you were ever able to say. Oh this here's another saw. The single is alright that i like this this other song from the band. Yes yes and actually i was you know for i. I was blessed in that way. That all of my radio career. We definitely always always always looked for other songs and actually push back sometimes on on labels when they were pushing the single on. It didn't feel right and we listen to the album and found better songs and didn't always play the chart game so So yeah very good and so did you give this song game above my head. This is the second of three lamar songs. Would you think of this on. I mean just like the first one. I thought it was cool. I don't renault this band you know so it was really. It was a i. Listen so i would have to kind of revisit again to really have a. I think and more context maybe to formulate like a good like pro opinion on it but school. I don't know if i mentioned that. A doctor doctor is still on the list. Number sixty is. You'll be happy before we even started talking about this. I'm very happy to know. So now i will ask about the beaumont. Is this song on this list. The song that that leaves carmel. Kinda cold leaves this for viewer. Cold what do you think holly is this still on the list like a song a lot. Go with yes. I know. they're going to be other songs from blue maggi. At least one word that is going to remain on the top eighty that we have gotten to yet. But i want to say yes about this. You're correct this is on the list. Eurythmics no blancmange. yeah throat. The more the merrier feather eurythmics sworn that was on. Yeah well we continue okay so this is going to be the last song of our list. We've reached and this is probably one of my favorites. This is cindy lauper. She bop and this episode on this. I well i mean we watch the video again and you just kind of fall in love again with just the energy that cindy lauper brings. She was meant for video. The ad this she's so unusual was just a phenomenal record. It was just like nothing. We'd heard before but she was. It was something that we were ready for. You know and i love that. She was just this huge personality and still to this day and at the time had really no idea that it was about masturbation even though you watch the video and it's all out there clueless but it's very obvious when when you watch the video. What are your thoughts carmel on. I'm cindy and this one. The song she yeah. I mean i. She's amazing and you know again. My my lens for the song originally was through the eyes of preteen. So you know. I had a much more innocent viewpoint than i did as an adult so i would imagine she would be as a preteen. She would appeal to you like you see this. And she's like this this oversize personality but just kind of glamorous and still a rockstar and singing. I would imagine that that might have appealed to. She didn't hit me that way but But i i appreciated moore. I certainly i. I liked your music. You know and And videos were fun and she was fine. I think i was maybe in terms of like you know someone. People that captivated me I was probably more drawn to like madonna. That's been. I was cindy lauper. Madonna was a madonna over team. Lauber okay that they were rivals at all. But i think madonna was a little bit more of a bad girl. And so you know and there was something like i think. I don't know this would be something kind of interesting to to like to do a little. I think on a little bit or do more digging or research on but like just off the cough off the top of my head. I'm thinking lake. They were both rebellious. And they were both subversive. But i think that madonna was just so much more overt about it and outspoken and were brazen. And i feel like yeah cindy lauper more cartoony i think possibly maybe madonna for you felt more real really compare myself. I don't compare them their music. They even the styles of music but city lauper not a character or a caricature but just she represented something different to me. I think she's the stronger singer. Then the madonna. She just phenomenal. Oh my god She said in this song that she was combining electronica in rockabilly trying to bring those those elements together and so kind of has that feel like she mentioned like when she she starts a song with. That's kind of like her rockabilly. Like option be bop bop. The sun was a one thousand. Nine hundred. eighty five pm are see list of fifteen. Oh it must have been. Yeah you know. I mean it was pretty blatant that. This was what they were. If if princes darling nikki masturbating by with a magazine was was on the list and cyndi lauper. I mean the video is great. She's alone in their in her car. And the windows are steaming. And it's just her and there with with the magazine. It's phenomenal truly national treasure. I love her so much. So cool all right so that that brings us. Oh is this on the list. Carmel what do you think i will say. Who's that girl is not on the list as we talked to this. It's a huge chant. It's not it's not on the list now. Shall we probably too big papi to who knows there. We go so. That's that's our ten song chunk. I wanted to give you an opportunity if you work out. We last month we lost read a houston from. Can you give us some words about what she meant to you. As as someone did you consider. Did you consider her your mentor. And which he bring the radio and when she bring into your life yeah i mean she was definitely my my mentor And she was also my family. She's really close friend. you know. it's a huge loss. And for me personally. You know we hadn't worked together in a in a while. Because i left f- uv in In twenty nineteen. So you know when she when she passed. I felt quite lucky that we were no longer co workers that we had our relationship had shifted back into where we were just friends. You know that was a gift. Because i was able to really be there at the end. But you know i mean. She's a trailblazer and was so So important so had such a pivotal role to play. You know it's like. I was thinking about this because the day that she died was a tuesday and i was doing. You know i have produced this weekly radio show now and it gets delivered out to radio stations on tuesday night and i was like i can't i cannot work i cannot. I was a mess. I was just got it. But i kept hearing rita my head like telling me to like not like suck it up but just you know okay. You're you're grieving but let's get back to work like there's time degree later this is. This is somebody who you know. Lost her father and then two days later was on stage at the beacon theater. You know she all through her. Illness never stopped never stopped working and there were moments where some of us were like. Oh my god like how can she keep going you know. Maybe she shouldn't keep going. Maybe she should be resting but it was like up to the very very end. You know and that taught me so much and i found myself coming back to that ethos when i confronted with her death it was like i was able to kind of like throw myself into my work and that was so healing for me. Yeah and so. I've just been reflecting a lot on so i you know. I dedicated that show. I had an interview will come full circle to the start of this conversation where i told you guys that i sat and did a ton of interviews for a podcast that was never to be or at least not to be yet and half of the interviews were with women who were on the business side and i had been bugging rita for a decade or more to get her story down now. You don't wanna talk to me. Why do you wanna talk to me like. Because you're rea- fucking houston. That's why anyway. I finally got my wish and i interviewed her. It was amazing for for shiro's and then it sat in the vault because the podcast never came out all of a sudden there. I am the day that she died thinking. Oh why god now might be the moment. And i opened up and i listen to for the very first time since we recorded at that day and You know when. I was like going back and forth like this going to ring true for stations across the country. I realize like no matter who is listening to this. No matter if you are a music. Fan rita houston has influenced somebody that you care about like a musician from brandi carlile to katy lang to adele too. I mean the list is like a mile and a half long of artists that took to social media by the way right away to thank her to have that large of an imprint. I mean that's that is that's a life well spent you know and it's something to aspire to. There's a small group of us close with rita who are getting bracelets made what would read a deal w subordinate and it's something that like. I mean i literally. I keep with me every single day. I hear her my head every single day. I'm here talking to you. Thanks to her. And i feel duty in a sense of responsibility to carry her legacy. You know. that's that's the work now is like you know. Keep keep showing up to work. Keep showing up to work. Keep supporting artists. Keep building relationships. That's how she did it. You know so. I know that was a long though. It's our it's hard when somebody brings that topic up to me. You know it's There's a lot to say. Thank you so much. I mean this. And you are continuing with your shiro. Show and it's it really is. The torch has been passed so to speak. And you're you're really you're promoting great music and that's all that matters really you know you're pushing the artists and these these talents great and you're giving them a voice. It's it's wonderful and i'm really happy. That's you've got this show now and we hear you in la. I can hear you in. La now eighty eight five fm. you know. i guess we're gonna hear you on sonos eventually and now beginning in march. Yeah heroes mix tape memoir actually funny. It's kind of a similar thing were just talking about but That's me yeah. It's it's like what we just did right walking down them re-lane with with songs that's music is so transport if this is so cool thank you guys so much for inviting me. It was a lot of fun. It was really as a nice change of pace for me really. I enjoyed myself very much can meet you holly nice to meet you. Thank you for doing this. We're so grateful. That was a lotta fun. It was a pleasure. Just thinking i'm available. Welcome me back anytime we're gonna that's it we're calling you a friend of the show there all right so thank you so much karbala and we'll talk soon. Yeah take care. Yes for sure all right so thanks again to carmel. Halt a her show is called shiro's radio and its heroes with an s. You could hear the show anywhere holly can you give that information sheriff's radio dot com and also starting in march you'll hear on stonehouse so that should be fun. Sure as mixed yeah super talented. Very happy to have her going over a ten song chunk of songs k rock played way back in one thousand nine hundred four and thank you holly a wonderful co host. Pleasure has been all mind. Dave as it is every single week. At the pantheon podcast. Proud member of the pantheon podcast family. Where can you follow us. Holly you can find us on facebook. At what difference does it make podcast and you can follow us on twitter and instagram at w. podcast and also check out our youtube channel where we are posting regularly. Lots of clips. Lots of outtakes from our show so so subscription simply follow. What difference does it make. Podcast on youtube and you will easily find what holly is posted on there. And it's always something fly. Can't wait to see what she posted this week until next week. This is dave circulator very.