This is meet the writers. I'm Georgina Godwin the show today was recorded at the monocle winter weekend at Schloss Elmo in the Bavarian Alps one of the key speakers at the event was a Swiss German writer, who's also the editor of defray talk, which was named as European newspaper of the year two thousand eighteen a man who's were we liked so much. We had translated from German to English and serialized under the title last newspaper reader in our seasonal paper. Because welcome to meet the writers Mikhail you'll wonderful piece the last newspaper read, it was translated from German to English. It was read aloud for Bruyas on this station, who's also serialized in publication. And so it's fantastic too. Heavy here, particularly because you are the editor of the European newspaper of the year two thousand eighteen it's cooled dirt Freitag. That's true. But now to speak about my book, isn't it? But we start we start at that point. Where we're in fact, you are a newspaper editor, and you have written about a newspaper reader and you start the book by describing the ideal newspaper reader who is that person? This person is me. But it's also a guy called Thomas. Ben hunt who used to be famous author in Austria. And there was one scene who made me thinking about a my book Thomas banner was an stick reader of the Notre title, which is a term newspaper, and he wanted to read an article about piece of music bay more sat he wanted to read the critic of that piece, which was given an inside spoke. So he was looking for and set you call it not should item in his village, but he couldn't find and then took a car with another guy, and they went on and on driving through the whole western part of AllState couldn't find enter Ted. He even went to Switzerland to find one. He didn't say if you found one at least, but he met more than three hundred kilometers to search Notre tied, and that's for me, some kind of ideal newspaper reader not the reader itself, but the passion Coleman addicts spend medic-. Yes, of course, it's like some drug addict. And I wanted to write a book about this kind of passionate or addict and north in the perspective of publisher part of a rear and not even reading newspaper because sometimes the best newspaper reading is not reading a newspaper. You say at some point in the book is just about having access to that paper about content is not about reading newspaper from the beginning to the end sometimes about where do we read newspaper. That's very important. Of course, you read a newspaper in coffees Thomas panel, for example, was very famous to read the newspaper in old coffees of Yana, but also very lived in moon and the only went to cafes who would have not should item. Otherwise, you wouldn't go there and such on other places like the bathroom, for example, which is very important phone newspaper. Also say that in the bathroom, you'll likely to have a periodical. That's right. Read my book. Periodical stereo. I love the way you say actually, we don't really read periodical particularly Sunday supplements. They just sit in your bathroom, and they sit next to the Lourdes. Nobody actually ever looks at them. Only the bathroom. We can't talk about this without talking, of course about the digital age. And how that influences things you talk about you, quote is if there's something I really like rushed my laptop my posted on Facebook, which is such a wonderful kind of juxtaposition of the to the content of the print, and then the method of getting it on the internet, then as you say has kind of become the grand narrative of the world. Note if the world on one side on the other side of the internet is not good for us readers because it's immaterial. I can't make stories about the internet. I can't bring stories into the internet. Yes. But make stores or so when I bring piece of newspaper in posted on Instagram and more Facebook, then bring some kind of real world into the internet. Did it yesterday piece of the effort at because the effort was correcting a mistake. And he made a little note about correcting mistake was very funny. Explain that. No. But a lot of people liked that. So there's a big need of having some kind of materialism, even in the internet. If the information we need is on the internet. Anyway, why read papers what's the point? Because all the information in the internet. I would say if you have all information and interest need one Lincoln another link and the third Lincoln afford link. And so on we have it all here. It's all present. So you need a world in which information is not just present and the newspaper kind of all information it's impossible and newspaper will have maybe sometimes complete. You can't say that people a newspaper is not for give you information. It is for reading and really means something completely different than getting information. It means for example, you discover something you didn't think about it and good newspapers are Kotik Frankfurt arguments. If they to for mated, in my opinion, a big tragedy that the news. Purpose who still exist are very formatted and wary you can't explore monopolists in exception. But most dailies on like this talking about dailies. I wonder if the daily papers disappearing because a day is no longer how we regulate offload information. They will disappear and it's good to because. Okay. It as a day, but it's not a measure for information. And it's not the measure for reading, and I talked about in my book about when you read or you think you will read later, that's the principal and later can means end of today. But it often means weekend Sunday, not Saturday Saturday you start but mostly Sunday. But you haven't time even on Sunday and Sunday comes you have too much to read next and so on and so on that's reading and you talk about that in the context of being unholiday as well that that actually yesterday's. Newspaper is the best proof that somewhere else? Yes, exactly. I thought that was very some kind of Preuss Jian. Fannie when I noticed that. It's no problem that the Ceuta title is not from the day. But from yesterday, it's good like this. Because it shows you somewhere else. It's not available. Yes. Yes. Yes. And in terms of saving up, those periodical and your Sunday papers and all the rest as you say you keep the one Sunday, then it's the next week then it's the next week. So you went on a trip with somebody with an extraordinary New Yorker habit. Really strange. He gave me a big shoot case because they would go by train, I guess by car, so you can take with you car. And I did. So it was very big though, so many clothes with you. It's too much didn't open, of course, was curious. But it didn't. And I gave him the big suitcase. He opened it was full of New York. And I said. What's happening? No now, I have time to read. But actually, he didn't he did sometimes re may be one article or so, but. We're all guilty of it. I want. Yes, you forgive to complex because they the newspaper says you have to be read and the big mountain of newspapers or the mess in your room newspaper here newspaper essays, you are guilty because you don't read point out that a change of mind can occur by reading newspaper, and in fact, that the mindset of an entire generation can change what would be an example of that. Maybe not reading a newspaper, but reading newspapers can can change a whole generation Denver to bake times. For newspapers to one time is before second World War in between the wars. Maybe it's different in in England, but interminably also in Switzerland ever, so many newspapers part of intellectual discourse was part of public sphere was so much into the new ideas that I sort, of course, without newspapers, they wouldn't be such a life intellectual life and also the movement of nineteen sixty eight so just too big periods. And in this sense. I mean can change your mind. Not not that you read one article or must change my life. No, one can give you a good feeling or an idea or something like this. But being Rita can make someone a reader. Yes reader is a way of existence. In the press, and people aren't always kind about what they say referring to journalists. And in fact, you write the era of newspapers created a rather Julius breed of people. What do you mean by that? Doc wrote in his novel is usual impacted we want to be part of the power for tat. He will sell your grandmother. And he won't be also when pe- both that part of the power and part of intellectual world, but in not in a good mixture most some bit of this type this type is going through not to the history of traditionalism in channel. But what we call in Germany for tone for tongue means culture, cultural journalism, they have education, they have knowledge, but only half knowledge have education because it doesn't matter. They want to repeat part of the power part of intellectual world, but they don't write like a writer. They don't go to the mountains and write a book in two years, and they wanted now they wanted now that's very important. This feeling of I wanted now, and that was part of modernism, but not the good part. He writes about the process of writing. But not about the person reading. No, no, never never. There's not one reader in his compare to. There's not one reader even know Arias, the only readers are the journalist reading the critics of the other turn A-List, but not to learn. But to look at it wrong, just staying with literature modern literature. You right isn't conceivable without the newspaper. What do you mean by that? Most of the riders I concerned with vir- newspaper, readers passion. Not only Thomas parent also paid hun-chool, you wouldn't believe because he always said, no, no, no, no, no, no newspaper is this kind of modernism. I his cracked before then had a conversation with him. And he confessed that he also was an addict to newspaper that means he got his subjects out of the newspaper. Not. But not only days he had this kind of pseudo style he noticed and then he said, I must finish reading newspaper. It destroys my style. And if you go to literal history, for example, of course, Termine radicalled Hanish from class who was connected with Berlin police chief to get police information and turned and quickly into stories and out of the story cement his place. So. Patrick. But when if you go to choice, for example, he made the style out of the newspaper if you. Neil in Ulises, not only it's a story of newspaper because the guy wants to give a net to the newspaper and the whole story is getting from home to the newspaper, but it's also in his form newspaper. He took about a newspaper. We'll do anything not to insult it's faithful readers. But of course, on the other hand, it has to attract new readers, and that's very difficult urine editor, obviously, this is something that you deal with all of the time. If you have to compromise every day we are paradox. They say I want my world in the newspaper, but on the other hand say, no, I don't want my world. I wanted to to you. You surprise me you give me out of meanings. But if you do other meanings that means they're not in a good mood getting aggressive, but getting aggressive means in the early days writing a letter nowadays. It means you go online, but this is productive because it fixes the relation between reader and newspaper. So you live in this paradox. But surely also means that the paper is working. The very active reading the fact that you need to engage in that way is important. It's important, but it's a big difference between the old newspaper reader who is engaged and Hugh made up his mind, maybe he writes down the newspaper and fills the lines in between, but he couldn't get in touch immediately with public sphere. And for me. That's good. That's good. Because today, you can go immediate public fair and. Again, not having it all just in. The moment means I must try to letter. I must go to the post office. It won't be printed the same day maybe in one week and so on and so on that makes an person. Think that newspapers have confidence in their readers. Don't have don't have. But it's the newspaper editors sometimes have. Sometimes I've not owner stoned have at people don't have different bat. The tendency is clear. The reader some kind of child you can't trust him. He's bit stupid and so on and so on. People seem to think that about local newspapers, there's some disdain for them. They're think about. I mean, of course, there these people exist, there are people who are stupid, but not all and even stupid people notice, Ben, you think that they are still you understand my favorite. I saw it. And I started the behavior of my parents reading the locals that immediately noticed when an article makes things too simple. Talking about local newspapers, you make the fantastic point that it takes a lot more bravery to be a local journalist rather than international. Of course, you have to offend people living next to you sitting in next to the major etcetera etcetera too small world, which is more world. And you don't get the big prices. And you don't get all. But for your work. I mean in terms of we have a lot still alive. I don't know decision in England. But in in terms of still a lot of local papers and a lot of people trying to do their work means there's this candle. I will write about it. No matter who wants to win. I wonder it's kind of going back to what you're talking about about the internet. What a local papers for because you don't need it. Now to know what time the shop opens when the funeral is is it about a more visceral emotional tie of of course, I mean to peek in turnovers newspaper some kind of German world. Hi, matt. I don't know the English word. It's not how much it's a place where you live or you feel at home cetera et cetera. But not a real place. It's a high mart in the newspaper and a newspaper, which is a local newspaper is a newspaper about time as a newspaper, so it doubles. And that's very important. And I guess if people don't get that feeling in the newspaper that get elsewhere in the internet, you get a lot of groups just posting pictures about their high and so on and so on, but a newspaper is more of that the newspaper is not only posting picture of this great environment. But it's the story the story that makes the high Matt as really your life. That's what Thomas penatta also because he he participated at his local newspaper as a letter writer, and this part of this high feeling too if I don't agree. I write a letter so because by because it's my heimat so. Redick driven content is part of what sets newspapers apart from each other. But you point out that actually with press agencies newspapers becoming aside from Rita content. Exclusives, but becoming quite homogenized. Yes, call it melancholy or tragedy. I don't know. Of course. Yes. I mean, it's a sentimental book admit they are still these newspapers who are different still newspapers, I like exist, so at least to him about the ideal newspaper Rita, but you also seem to be quite fascinated with people he might not appear to be newspaper readers, and I really want you to tell us that story of Joe Stromer. It's part of everyday social logical behavior that you want to know what kind of guy is this just because he was some kind of close or he read some newspaper. Clubs everyone best the same close to count newspaper. If you look to your mobile, you can't so chose trauma. I was a fan of him as a kid because he was a punk rock because he played with the clash, and I didn't think of him as a newspaper reader, but as a man making good music. Maybe the lyrics are a bit simple, but Sandinistas brilliant, open to man, etc. Many many many years later sometimes is into body Dan with the mescaline was or what I called. I lost him a bit out of my mind. But then hurt that he died, and I read somewhere that he died if a newspaper, and I wonder which newspaper this was and it was the observer. Story. But I love that you then go back to the observer look at the day he died. See what was in the paper. I mean, that's quite extraordinary level of detail. Isn't it just you can track back to almost what he was thinking on his deathbed even thought about article multi Redmond the harder came? Zeroed in on the thing. He probably was reading. I forget what that was. Maybe it was an article about the singer of. Divers a an interview with him in removed to Paris. And he said, oh, I know. I'm completely different. I don't need any more this kind of rock and roll life and this Emma, happy, man. And I thought maybe died in this moment when I read that. Tribes corker is a happy, man. Maybe. Just before we go we are recording this with these incredible snowy mountains in front of us was sitting on really sunny Taras outside Schloss alma. We've been at the monocle winter weekender is the first time we've done something. Like this. You one of the featured speakers just tell us what this experience was. For me. It was brilliant. I go home if a lot of ideas, but they don't have anything to do with newspaper. I'm new ideas about food connecting people in in difficult situation, saying what is no good. But a try to change it. I want to go now home and go into pop and talk to people because the brilliant and simplest idea was just talking here. And of course, newspapers no talking is reading. Because it was such a pleasure for me to talk to you. Thank you so much. Linked to meet the rightist. Thanks, the production team of judgment, John and Christine Evans. You can download this show and previous episodes are website or up from soundcloud, mixed cloud, or I tunes. I'm Georgina Godwin. Thank you Phyllis. Nick.