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#64 - What is the Church?


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Southern Seminary has an undergraduate school that trains students who are serious about the Gospel and how it informs every single part of life and this point in our culture in our world having a Christian worldview particularly as a young adult making big big life decisions is absolutely imagining more important and at boys college every major from Biblical theological studies to business teacher education requires a Biblical and theological core the students with a Christian worldview for a life of discipleship regardless of what they're going toward in their vocation to learn more about voice. You can go to Boyce College Dot Com on if you use the code knowing faith one word knowing faith when you apply the wave your thirty five dollar application fee This early I'm joined by my co host Gene Wilkin jt English. Hey here we go papers bibles even I was reading something we we were prepping. We we we are. Yeah we're tale right now. There is just a little Bible fool. Bibles notes are laid out. There's pins and Jim has her glasses. The remember those words listen. It's not as if you haven't insulted my hairline enough alright so grandma. Glass is fairly tame On today's episode wearing the apostles creed to ask what is the church. Janey here eating breakfast Jt It's the Mama Baby Combo Ombu what what is the traumatic chicken and egg burrito right so once the Mama and the baby one Tortilla. Oh my God. I don't know that chick-fil-a wants that their name. It's true it's true. Yes so this is Jay z's having the end you've got no you don't have the sauce layout that. You normally did breakfast guys if you've never been to have. We talked about this on the podcast. Awesome yeah we haven't no he's at jt lays out historically sauces like a sociopath and have the guy literally he I know he is very specific. And as allotments. You know you might WanNa GonNa Chick-fil-a and be like yeah. I'd like to have the rich and give you a few ranch on one ranch one barbecue one by one. He gives them like if you could give unlike Graham amount. Probably I'd like those fries. well-done hold on a medium rare fry. No no hold on I Google back me up on this. I don't do any other chick-fil-a up the one that's here. It's there. I'm I'm sorry. I Love Them. But they're notoriously undercooked. It's like eating a in wet potato and just in their defense been eating there for eons and have never once judged the fries need because I've got higher standards in you know you have more particular preferences You are picky. You guys are mean and I've never heard with you at a restaurant where you did not change what you were ordering because you can. You can do it. Why Not Tom? I think listening guys that you need to know everything you need like if you want a psychological evaluation of JT. Just go order with him. Yeah mainly mainly chick-fil-a Eh. Well we're here and we're talking about. What is the Church today we're in the apostles creed? Hey just real quickly because always talked about this before what our church backgrounds of each of us as we talked about the role of the creed and bringing our church backgrounds. I get this question a lot from listeners of the show so jin you name it. I've done it. Yeah Yeah Eh. Yeah but a lot of my most formative memories is a small child. Were in more liturgical environment so I remember I have a lot of memories of the Presbyterian Church a lot of memories of the Methodist Church coach so The hymns and the creeds are all sort of inside of my. Because you know how like you're memorizing things when you're small than when you're big and so you being young and old yeah so I've been Presbyterian nondenominational Bible Church Southern Baptist than methodist and simultaneously going to a pentecostal church with my mom so methodists with my dad pentecostal with my mom mom then there was an episcopalian. Stint a You'd be a great candidate for president. Yeah because you can just really grow up and be like the cost get get you there seven of them. I have counted their seven. Oh became yes. I've been southern baptist. Several Times purpose felt exhausted. All right so gingy. United Nations of church life. What about you? Yeah mine's much simpler so I didn't. I kinda grew up like my parents took me to the methodist church search occasionally it was largely social. I was confirmed. I don't really remember anything. And then I just fell off the map until I came to faith in college and that was kind of just big tent nondenominational national evangelicalism and of now found my home. SBC Okay well. Why was here the whole time? Captain is waiting for both of you. Just you know born in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight Baptist Disorder Baptist before both of you but uh-huh said you've always been there and I think there's a theological problem chapters accidents. I have been I have been there. There was a time when I was not from the time that I was until now he got there as soon as he could. Not Know than the devil you don't have remained there with all the skeletons well okay so let's dominate skeletons in the closet skeletons people and that's not a good look. I mean every denomination skeletons in the closet. Yeah I'm just in March off of every list any potential board from any southern Baptist Institution. But that's probably a grace and mercy we're in the apostles creed today. Jin would you. Would you just kick us off with the good read through the apostles creed I believe in God. The Father Almighty creator of Heaven and Earth. I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary he suffered under Pontius pilot was crucified died and was buried. He descended to hell the the third day he rose again from the dead he ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God. The Father Almighty from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe even the Holy Spirit the holy Catholic Church the communion of Saints The forgiveness ascends the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting. So this is the apostles creed we've been going through that this season on knowing faith and today we're looking at the church so we've talked about God. The father reminding we've talked about God his creator. Who Jesus Christ is what? Jesus Christ has done the significance of his death and resurrection. We had Matinee Merson on to talk about what What it means to say? He descended to hell or descended into the disparate episode. So much positive feedback his understandably. I thought he was so good. Yes and so if you did not listen to that episode highly encouraged to go listen to it. So we've been covering the apostles creed because the apostles creed is a consensus document in the life of the global an historic church. It's considered to be one of the Ecumenical Creeds Establishing publishing a bare minimum of of Christian Orthodoxy At a strategic time in the life of the Church and so we've been journeying through it the church that we were apart we I was part love for a number of years and jt in Jin serve on staff did a series of the apostles creed. So it's something that we've spent some time in and so we wanted to invite the audience into that and so today we're asking the question. What is a church? So we talk about the Holy Catholic Church the communion of Saints. And so let's just ask the question. What is a church? What is the church? I mean I've got an answer. I think you're asking a lot questions com. Thank you What is a church? A church is a local expression of of Body of Christ it is local but also the apostles creed is in district into and two local right. Would you want to broaden that. Yeah so I would often say if you ask me what is a church. And what is the church. I would probably distinguish between those two things. So what's the church. The Church church is the communion of saints it is all believers past president future throughout history and around the globe and around the world. And that's technically what the creed is talking about. It is Yup. Yeah and but I do want to make a distinction in this episode between universal and Local Church or invisible invisible because if you just focus on one of those to the exclusion of the other. Your view of the Church will be incredibly lopsided Can you just you said visible and invisible in you. Can you flesh that out for people. What is the invisible church? Yeah so like angels. No that's a great question so the invisible church would be for example like the Apostle Paul currently is not among us but he is a part of the trash right so that would be part of the invisible visible church. It would be the saints who have come before would be a part of the invisible church And I've probably would prefer universal and local more than visible and invisible because gets visible and invisible implies that like there are invisible participants in the church. When what we're really saying is that there are people that we cannot see either because they have come before for us or they're in a different part of the world or even a different part of the city like Utah part of the Universal Church but not the same local church exactly exactly and I think I Corinthians strengthens the first Corinthians actually get a good like one sentence perspective of both of these realities right that are included in the phrase the Holy Catholic Church communion of Saints? This is what it says. I Corinthians one versus verse to to the Church of God that is in Corinth to those sanctified in Christ Jesus called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ both their Lord and ours. I think right there. You get a beautiful picture of of both of these two realities so the Church of God that is in Corinth so Paul's addressing this letter to a church like a church that churches in corinth and he says called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of the Lord. Jesus so he's giving them this dynamic in one verse. Here's the local church church in Corinth or as a church in flower amount of church in Richardson or a church in Beijing. or It's a church in Pakistan so it's a local church but there's also that we're called to be saints together with everyone who has called upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ both their Lord and ours so that's that distinction between the universal and the local church but the apostles creed need it's driving emphasis. Is the church universal. That's the phrase Holy Catholic Church. I want us to talk about this semantics there because I think for for those who are hesitant about this creed to begin with if they didn't get derailed at he descended into hell they get to this phrase like what the what like their end so so going back to the principle that a creed by its nature is an exercise in linguistic thrift. That in other words every word matters why say Holy Catholic Church. Why not just say church? Why not just say Holy Church? Why not just say Catholic like wire each each of these words in here Do we have to say that the church is holy. Wouldn't we just assume that the church's holy because Jesus has called the church and so what do you think about that. I I think holy is really important modifier. It's it's it's it's trying to pick up on this idea that you are a priesthood. A Holy Nation of people who've been set apart for God and so one thing that I'd love to try to tease out throughout all of these questions in the episode is to try to show. I think this is the place where people can begin to think this is more creed not as much which Bible. Yeah and I think it's important to show they're actually trying to pick up on some really biblical themes but what churches. So it is holy sanctified. It's set apart a holy nation a set of righteous priests priests men and women on mission with together. It's Catholic because it's universal that's what Catholic. So if you're if you're worried about this term Catholic we are trying to say that we're a part of this universal universal church that has comprised all all people who've been dwelt by the Holy Spirit and have been a part of Christ's body. So it's this universal communion of saints. That isn't just being Baptist or Presbyterian or or in a certain region of the world. That's what you were leading to go. Its Church it's It's this group of people this communion of saints who've been brought together other set apart for God of which Christ is the head so it's in in the sense that it's universal because I think that's another word that can be a little cloudy for people what we're saying hanging is it looks over. Its shoulder at those who've gone before it looks forward to the hope of those who are coming after it looks around those that are currently Living Living Janitor at acknowledges that what we see in our local church is a very small limbs of the whole of the church which past present and future around the globe. How is that a helpful vantage point for any church? I mean just speaking from a as a pastor sort of a local church. It's incredibly helpful on a number of fronts. Let me just give you some really quick fire practical application My Church doesn't have to be fully representative of every beautiful beautiful thing about the kingdom right at any given moment why because it's not the job of any local church to be representative of all those things that all the time it's like no. They're going to be beautiful representations of following Christ. They're in different theological traditions there in different denominations that are in different parts of the world. They're going to be elements of our worship. That are gonNA would be different because of where we are that are going to be unique and other places as well and so it gives you the freedom to be a local expression without the fear without the the feeling of fear of. We've got to be everything all the time. I think. That's an incredible thing a gift to any local churches to say you don't have to carry the burden. They can only be carried by the whole of the Church It freezes up to meaningful partnership because I think this is another reason. Why appealing to a broad base of Orthodoxy by the Apostles creed means means that I can go into our community among sister churches of other denominations and traditions and I can talk about meaningful partnership with those people as long as they acknowledged crisis Lord and holds us some bare minimum orthodoxy like what's represented the apostles creed? I don't have to ask them to be me. And they don't have to ask me to be then and we can still partner together are for the worship of Christ and the going forth of his kingdom in our community. That's that's a tremendously valuable thing Figari. So there's a couple of quick thoughts so you see a lot of freedom freedom in the concept that is giving you a lot of leeway to be your own expression and it certainly giving freedom but it's also saying if you're not a part of these things that are have been universally believed in accepted entrusted by the apostles and the tradition that they've handed down. Then you're actually not a part of the church and that holiness is a qualifier for this exact holiness is believing leaving the things that the apostles have taught believing this creed if you find yourself outside the bounds of those things. Then you're not a part of this holy Catholic Church so clearly I mean the creed is trying to keep keep the fence around you. Know what's worth yes I would. Also I'm thinking in terms two of the just as there is a freedom and saying I don't have to be all things to all people as local church there is also I think I don't want to call it an accountability but but an awareness or a church that does not like me bears witness to things. That are beautiful that I should have as a reference point so it's not just that we have the freedom to be our own expression. It's that we have the humility recognize that there are many expressions And that Well I mean this kind of points to the whole discussion that we have had in the book of acts about God Not playing favorites. Then there's not a favouritism with the Lord. And so that was God does not have favorite expressions of the local church It's the church. There's universal and it's This is this is probably best described as the discussion of there. Being hands and feet and that each part of the body has so you might you might see that as inspiration within any individual church that their hands and feet and there is in there. Maoz. And all of that. But that within the church universal reversal there also as that metaphor I was actually just going to say something similar. Same example in the local church. We love the idea that one body many members and that's true is has one body many members can come out but but the the same is true of local church and the same is true of the Universal Church that there's one body a universal church many localized sized members that are performing function. Kevin Van. Who's this is kind of a big word? But he is afraid I like a lot. He talks about one talks with the Universal Church that it has a pluriform warm witness. And it's this idea that there is a plurality of witnesses that are there witnessing to the uniformity of the Lordship. Jesus Christ I like that. Yeah yeah no I mean and I think it's incredible label to see A lot of that is We miss a lot of that because of how kind of myopic vision is right. And how The the blinders that we have on so many times like for example one of the things that is just like incredible about the current spread of anglicanism in the American North American Global West is that the a CNA Anglican Church with North America. A lot of people don't know that the Anglican Church in North America has has really been underneath the leadership and guidance of African bishops. That's right and so they they see the spread of something like a CNA and they're like wow that looks incredible so you might might have like an ACS church in your community and you might not even know that the reason that the a CNA church is able to be what it is at this present moment is because there were a group of faithful African bishops in a different part of the world that you never saw that you never knew who prayed lead raised that faithful man and provided leadership coverage for that kind of thing. That's a great picture of the unseen dynamics of the Universal Church that when being faithfully execute him under the Lordship of Christ in a personal way and moved by the spirit lead to really tangible local expressions. Right that we benefit from all of our traditions are like that. We have these really long train so to speak. That are behind us. That are providing an engine force movement And much of which we did not so into and we were reaping the benefits of work that had been done either church planted ice or a seminary that developed a pastor who eventually went and planted us or whatever. The thing might be that. There's this incredible legacy of faith behind us and it's not all beauty. There's there's a lot of broken. Ns there that comes through but that this dynamic between the universal local church. There's a beautiful symbiosis there must be. It's essential how has globalization solicitation and the exchange of ideas that we now are able to have how has that impacted our understanding of the Holy Catholic Church. Like you just give. Oh you just gave a description of the influence on anglicanism in the states by African bishops. Three hundred years ago that influence might have been influenced like like that might have been felt or expressed but it would have taken much longer for it to transfer or even have an awareness that that was where the influences coming from. There's something that happened this past year and I. It is too short of an example to talk with all the details but you had The Methodist Church gathering together. I think they call it their general assembly and they were. They were voting on kind of this major idea. Around kind of a progressive view of sexuality ordination and and it was actually again the African bishops who stood up and said wait a second. What is happening in the Global West related to sexuality is number one is not biblical? We're not on board with it and you're actually using as a form of western supremacy like your your progressive sexuality is outside the bounds of scripture in new forcing us to try to get on board with this and funded. We're not GONNA do it. And so here. You have an example. We can think of globalization as this idea that we're exporting western democracy to the world to the globalized south and east. But here we had A. We had a wonderful example not related to government or politics economics or or culture but within the Church of the Global Noble Church much. Like Kyle's taking the truths of Christianity in importing them back into the Global West as we've lost them. If your life is like mine it can fill busy all the time and so. When was the last time that you slow down to invest in yourself and deepen your relationship with Christ and others well way forward? Adventures creates a space. That's free from noise distractions for you to dive deeper into your relationship and discover who got to be while on a backpacking journey in the rocky. Mountains this is a really incredible opportunity because way forward adventures dot com is inviting riding you to take the first step towards freedom purpose adventure through one of their trips way forward adventures dot com mentioned knowing faith podcast and get fifty dollars off of your trip. One of the things that I love and I'll often say when we recite the apostles creed Amylase Church and we we do so Maybe once a month it's part of different liturgical elements that we fold into the service and as we do so one of the things that will often say is I love reciting the apostles creed because typically in the Global West. We think that we're at the beginning of what's happening in the beginning. The we're the end like it's ending. The Sun is. The Sun is setting on the church and the Global West but it did not rise with us and that our brothers and sisters and how churches across China and Pakistan and and in sanctuaries across North Africa and our brothers and sisters that have remained faithful in central and eastern and Western Europe. They already beat us to the punch they have already proclaimed the Lordship in the goodness of Jesus and Almighty God the father who has created all things and that we are kind of coming late to the game and that's not just true of our Sunday to Sunday expression. That's true of the history of the church right that we often think like. Yeah we kind of we kind of rule the roost on ask but we are the youngest right like like we're the adolescence and the life of the Church and I think that's an incredibly vital thing for us to understand I think the apostles creed is a historical reminder of that reality and yes the the idea of the holy Catholic Church can can seem team To be something that provides that has restraining. We've talked about this in different elements with a creed that it is. It is giving us some parameters like some fencing thing in but I think that apostles creed when rightly understood is yes. It is fencing and but it is fencing in a very large field like there is room room for us to grow and to cross pollinate and explore issue. Just a very big expansive space for us to enjoy together so I think that's an incredible part of this. I think one of the things I'd like to explore if we can for a second is is where this line creed quiets falling where it is like. Why was this not further up in the thing and it's following this this kind of theological narrative that we've seen in the so far around around the person of Jesus that he is Godson that his work that he came suffered crucified died buried? Resurrected Senate will come again to judge living in the dead and Alon right before or this is what we believe. In the Holy Spirit's he had the Lordship of Jesus over his church and the giving of the Holy Spirit. So fusions is one of my favorite books it has some beautiful Trinitaria theology. It has some really good just Cristaldi and Gracie think of chapter two or say grace through faith but you see also. Is this threat of ECCLESIAL. Aji from Paul that I wanted just poll. Aw Out for a second. Awfully rediffision in an individualistic way like that gets me. But it's all Paul is talking to Church or churches in Ephesus. I think if he's in chapter one it's talking about the Lordship of Jesus he says and he put all things under his feet gave him head over all things to the church. which is his body the fullness of him who fills all in all so number one it's highlighting the authority of Jesus? Just like the GIS did that. He is the one who is over his church. Oh come to judge the living and the dead then go a little bit further and efficiency chapter two Paul says so then you. He's talking to a church. Not just individuals are no longer strangers and aliens but now fellow citizens the social economic of the Church your saints in members of the household of God so one of primary metaphors for the churches a household you're built on the foundation of the apostles prophets. Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone. In whom the whole structure being joined together grows into a Holy Temple in the Lord Lord. I think they're pulling this for the line and agreed verse twenty two in Him. You also were being built together into a dwelling place for God the Holy Spirit which we you just heard about in the line before and agreed that we believe in the Holy Spirit in one more if Fijian's chapter four versus four three seven talking now about the unity of this one holy Catholic Church there is one body and one spirit just as you recall to the one hope that belongs to the call one Lord one faith one baptism one God in father of all who is over all through all and in all those three passages we read I the Lordship of Jesus is Christ is the one who who's over his church he's in all and above all in guiding a he is head pastor over the church universal he is calling us together to to build our foundation on the property apostles why because we're in dwelt by the by the Holy Spirit and in what is that resulted in this this collective wave home in one God one faith one baptism one lord and one body one church and that's like the Fijian's one two and four what we just read is this line in so if you're having a hard time wrestling with this line I get it because a lot of us have made baggage backgrounds around some of these words but that's all this line is trying to say yeah we said to the Lordship of Jesus we do it together because we are in Schwab by the Holy Spirit we follow the teaching the prophets and the apostles and we have this commonality community. Why because we believe in God says structurally we talked a little about the structure of the creed? I just went back and was looking at. You know the version. I had read earlier earlier and I pulled up a few others just to Kinda see if I was seeing what I thought it was because I hadn't really paid attention to this before Jt you're probably going to be like A. Yeah no obvious. But the way that the the way that the text is aligned so like the spacing the indents and everything you have the I believe statements that are Left justified right so I believe in God the Father Almighty I believe in Jesus Christ I believe in the Holy Spirit. Those are three left justified statements and then underneath those does each of those is everything that flows from that statement. And I think what we can forget in reciting the creed is you get to. I believe in the Holy Spirit. And it's like we're almost home. Guys guys bring it on me. Start reading off sort of the laundry list of and it sounds like and these are all the other things I believe in but looking at the way that it's formatted it's I believe in the Holy Spirit gear it and then underneath the category of Holy Spirit. You Get holy Catholic Church communion of Saints Forgiveness of Sins Resurrection Life. Everlasting that these are flowing out of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit's merits specifically. So as you said you know we're one spirit one baptism that's the defining factor of this particular portion of the creed is by. Hi this spirit. We are one church and they're even drawing all. Yeah that's exactly right. They're doing that intentionally. Drawn out way back to One temple yet I. Ah this Biblical Theology Systematic Theology. So they're intentionally doing the systematic terms numerology this bureau giridih understanding of what it means to be a part of a local body in the universal body. And and you know as we've been talking about an axe. The churches born the birth scene for the church is pentecostal spirit. Ascent Dan so it makes it makes sense that you would see the the I mean. This is all crafted not just to teach you what is Orthodox but also to teach biblical theology Geagea moving through absolutely so holy Catholic Church and then the communion of saints so when we hear this What is the communion communion of saints? And how was that. Why does the creed Go to the length of distinguishing it from the Holy Catholic Church so holy Catholic. The church the communion of saints. What do you think it's getting out there? I think we could point back to first. Corinthians twelve twelve to twenty six. Which is we've already highlighted? This Eddie. A little bit of being one body members and so the communion of saints one of the things recognizing when we join a local churches were saying a couple of things or saying number one. I don't exist in a relationship with God by myself. I'm in need of of other people to help. Point needed the truthfulness of God the projections of God and we're also saying not prideful both humility. They need me right that if you're not there something's messing and if they're not there something's missing so we have this one body many members and that God and again this is this is a spirit. Driven theological idea has given us gifts spiritual gifts the gifts of of teaching or hospitality talent or prophecy. Why so that? The church might be built up the communion of censoring this Comb Union. That us together were this dwelling place God and in need of each other. Yeah and that that That there is I love that idea of the the need of one another and when we gather we gather as a group of believers and the centerpiece of that is The word and the table that that's that's kind of the means of our fellowship together is the the word word and the table. Or the Lord's supper and that we gather around these elements sharing a table together. Even though we scattered and I have to say I was reading a study recently. And you guys are posting doing this to that. Now when we're thinking about just the demographics average church attendance or regular church. Attendance is When they're doing surveys and data is two times a month and that's a that's a that's considered to be essentially a standard four? If somebody said Yeah I'm a meaningful part of a local church and I attend the corporate gathering of the people two times a month that would constitute average or regular church attendance. Think wow what does that mean. If Twenty six out of fifty two weeks of the Year uh-huh people are essentially saying I don't need the communion of saints. It's a big deal. Half I mean I mean as a pastor be sitting. I'm thinking about regularly regularly as we have to develop philosophy of ministries platforms and systems like twenty six hours. A week isn't GonNa do it folks right now. Yeah for sure is just no way that that if you if you're just gathering and with your ticket if I'm thinking about how do I form somebody. I know people who watch twenty six hours of net flicks a week and so the fact that over the course of the year I'm responsible double and or partially responsible with others to form them in twenty. The Hour is short because of course there's announcements and there's an when you know twice a month twice that's two four but then when you say it's half the year well that's different like if I told you I go to church six months. What's out there and the other six months? I mean you'd be like that's not enough. That's probably why you'd probably go. Why why and Hebrews Tin this idea of community saints the let us consider how to stir up another love and good works not neglecting to meet together as is the habit of some but encouraging one another and all the more Drawing near as we see the the day and all the more as you see the day drawing near that we should be gathering together. So I think it's important for us to know that we are always in communion. It's just a question of with water him. Yeah that's a good point. And so we're called to a specific kind of communion a specific context and a specific Type and so I had a little. Oh Fun like I sometimes do with looking at bird definitions just to kind of expand understanding because when we hear communion us think Lord's supper right like we forget that there's an many the people I think actually think in reciting the creed. Oh this means. The Lord's supper. But you look up the word communion and it just means sharing. It means that we believe that there is a sharing that happens among along the saints but if you think about other words that come from that same route what are you. Have you have community so as you said the sharing of the table and you have communication the sharing of the word that these these sharing elements are specific type for the purpose of formation. And if you you look at you know like even the statistics that we know are true for the human family so the the nuclear family the statistics that show the families that that have dinner together at least four times a week that those children are at a much lower risk of succumbing to the pressures of drugs or alcohol L. A. Risky behaviors. And then you think about why. Because it's formative right that communion around the table. I always call the dinner table of a lesser communion But you know in in many ways. pizzas communion and the Mama Baby Combo but We understand the importance of communion. We just our our memories. Start to grow faint. When it comes to the communion communion of the saints why we it's good to make repetition the idea? Yeah one time somebody said Yeah it is and I think it gets at this this youtube that we sometimes we'll think about the corporate gathering As the thing satiate our desires right. So I'll come on Sunday to have my desire satiated or satisfied and when it's not that it was lacking or I need to go somewhere else somewhere else. But that's actually not primarily with the gathering for the gatherings primarily for forming in your desires. That's right so it's like it's not. You have people who come I. There was a funny moment Couple months ago. A new believer said they were a kid and in the way only a kid can with one of the first times take communion and they said I capacitor. I always leave the table hungry and I was like yes. That's exactly exactly like you. Just that's your tagline. For the Lord's supper is that like we. Don't come to the table and go man. I'm I'm filled up. We come to the table and remind ourselves it's it's it's a taste it's a foretaste of going. Now go out into the world and enjoy life with this. Jesus Christ The broken body in the shed blood of Christ enjoy fellowship with God who you have been granted access to through through the waters of death. Baptism and the broken body and ship a lot of Christ. Jesus doesn't say blessed are those who are fully says blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness booming I. The Lord's supper is a is an enactment of it's a recognition of that And again if if you're going to church only half of the Times you have the opportunity to who is it. Any wonder that we see risky behaviors happening within the church. We just we I think. We underestimate the formative power of those moments and then because of this mindset. It's at the church. Should conform to my preferences. I think what happens is and some of this has to do with the loss of liturgy right because when everyone is abiding by litter and I'm not I'm not. This is not like a push for that but I just want to show one of the things that's happened as a result of a loss of a liturgical structure to worship environments. When you know each week what's going to happen you you know exactly what the rhythm is going to be? You don't come in saying well. Let me see if this meets my preferences bringing know that you are submitting yourself to something that transcends your own preferences but when you never know what to expect walking into a worship environment. Then you're constantly coming to and I'm GonNa this is gonNA sound is GonNa come across harder than it should head but that I I come to sit in judgment on on a service that was intended to judge me. You're evaluating would move solo. Yeah you're like I kind of like this. One had a nice fruity bouquet. The encouraging it'd be kind of like if my kid came and sat down at dinner and after dinner told me what the food lacked instead instead of Instead of recognizing that coming in joining that table and sharing the conversation was the point. Now whether the meal at your preferences there's an early Church church. Father named Ciprian of Carthage Carthage. The second century church father who was talking about salvation and the reality of the nature of the necessity of the church and the believer's life which just which is what we've been talking about. Here's his own. What you guys think about it? He says he cannot have God as his father who has not the church for his mother. What do you think that quote? I love it de Gen- you now I like. It actually didn't know the church is the bride of Christ so wouldn't it be the mother of the children for a to. The church's role is cultivated. Nursery ritual. Nervous spatial I don't I don't I don't know that I'm prepared to say that. We live in a time of of a unique of a of a heightened Problem of individualism. Maybe we do. Do I think we certainly have a heightened awareness of the problem of individualism but But no I think maybe we do because we have so many at least in Western culture we have so many tosses available to us we can customize our meat like. Jt can order the meal that JT Weinstein less seriously showing greater imagine in half what jt ordered was what the whole table had to eat right like that would that might change the way he decides to order the meal. But that's not the time that we live in. We live in a time where everyone can get exactly what they want in the way they wanted when they wanted an often even when we sit down for a meal none of us are eating the same thing and so those this kinds of things are forming us and and so our whole notion of communion just period is is shattered right now. A not even with the Lord's supper what is it doing. We're all taking the same elements unless you're gluten free than we do a little way for you over at the side we see. Yeah but barring a medical issue. Everyone strives to eat the same thing at the same time. And as those those kinds of things. It's it's an exercise as in Sameness and shared nece and what a powerful exercise during a time when we're being told that your individuality is the most important thing about you absolutely absolutely love talking about the church. Say I thought this episode was GonNa bore me and I've really enjoyed it. Hope our listeners. The like the people that are like yeah okay. This is fine. If there's anything I talk about on the show you know more about you can find details on our website. TV Resources Dot Net on our next episode. We're going to look at acts eleven And wrap up season. Three's exploration of the first half of ax. CNN Time Grayson piece. Despite this episode is brought to you in part by logos logos is the Premier Bible study software tool for your computer. Your Personal Bible. We'll study your preparation for teaching and preaching every episode. They're offering an incredible opportunity to win. The silver base package of law goes eight. You can enter that contest at law guscott com slash knowing faith.

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