What keeps people on Snapchat?
Hello and welcome to wide you push button ashore Caitlyn tiffany hello and Ashley Carmen. That's me examined all the choices technology forces us to make and today we're talking about why people still use snapchat okay so we realized that we talk a lot about instagram on the show one of our favorite topics and we haven't really done many episodes slash any episodes specifically about snapchat. There's an obvious reason for this. I remember four or five years ago when all my friends were telling me to download snapchat so that we could talk to each other and now when I open the APP there's nothing there's no stories. There's people except for my one friend Christie which is the only reason I continued to open the APP so we want to know who is still using snapchat and what are they using it for but before we get into all that back in time figure out what made snapchat so popularity in the first place you may have heard of an APP for cellphones called Snapchat Okay essentially let me tell you what it is not of the latest APP that is caught fire with teens. It's called snapchat. You send a photo to a contact and you set a time limit for how long the other person can see that photo and then boom it automatically deletes. That's the point of the APP to help us start our story. We have the verges Silicon Valley editor Casey new in who is the foremost foremost chronicler of snapchat rise and fall and continued tentative life. I would say so I think snapchat owes its success to an insight that they had about human behavior which is that it didn't makes sense that all of our conversations with everyone stay around forever and so in two thousand eleven I've been speak all Bobby Murphy Reggie Brown there at Stanford they really want to start a company. They WanNa do something around messaging and they had this idea like what if messages just disappeared at the end and I think part of that was absolutely people sharing moods but it was also just the kids that were part of the first generation of snapchat had grown up a world where their parents had the pass code of their phone and we're reading through their text messages every day making pitcher they weren't joining a gang or doing ecstasy which is what my mother would have been to. If I were that age and as far as existed and all of a sudden they could just be like sub girl and like mom wouldn't know about it and it was a stroke of genius worldwide more than twenty million million different sometimes compromising embarrassing and yes even explicit photos are shared every day all right so beyond that though Casey what other features kept people on snapchat so snapshot really has been one one of the if not the best innovator in social products in my opinion since about two thousand eleven when it founded they also this really cool product around lenses like they sort of brought augmented reality filters to the forefront but then they had this other other really killer innovation which was stories. It was an image or video that was kind of like a snap that you might send you a friend accept it was public and anyone could see it an anyone could comment on it when snap release this this it just did gangbusters people love sharing this way so snapchat it sort of invented the next generation version of facebook right and Mark Zuckerberg has been known to buy his competitors he bought instagram and what that means that he would wanNA buy snapchat yeah so in two thousand thirteen mark Zuckerberg offers Evan Spiegel three billion dollars for snapchat which at the time many people said is an absolutely crazy number but you have to keep in mind. Mark Zuckerberg is maybe the most paranoid business leader in American industry like he knows that people will leave any of his apps given basically the slightest prompting and it's been a challenge of his entire career at facebook to figure out. How do you make this thing sticky how do you how do you get people coming back over and over again because it turns out basically every social APP is just a fad it's kind of a novelty wears off and so he looks at snapchat coming on the pike can he sees the democratic? That's using it and it's all people who hopped on snapchat before the ever gone on facebook and so all of a sudden. There's this risk that the next generation will never adopt facebook at all the Evan Spiegel Snap C._e._o.. Did Not sell the facebook and I think everybody here knows what facebook did after that or could guess <hes> so if you can't beat them in Silicon Valley you copy them so they clone stories instagram now doing disappearing stories stories much like snapchat instagram that will ask for twenty four hours. INSTAGRAM has just launched a brand new feature in the form of a short video story lasting up to twenty four hours sound familiar. That's because it is so instagram's stories comes out how it's basically a direct rip off of snapchat quite obvious these are stories that are ephemeral. They go away after twenty four hours. You can see a list of everyone who's looked at them. There's even a little bubble list at the top exactly like snapchat what is going on snapchat when those guys down so the first thing that come in his do whenever anybody copies them is they put out the statement where they say you know we welcomed the competition and were just glad that they're validating the space it and I think that's basically what snapped outside publicly and then they started to look at their daily average user numbers and at first they plateaued and then they started to debt like this was the existential crisis for snapchat I and I think because facebook tried to clone until them so many times before they had probably gotten a little cocky and so when it started to work I think they were all cup. Surprise all right so basically what you're trying to tell us. Casey is that because facebook ripped toffs snapchat on instagram. That's the reason why people aren't using snapchat as much anymore. It was really bad. Snap has been trying to dig out of this whole ever since and they've never really recovered at the same time there there is a generation of people who were in high school and maybe college at the height of snap success who are still using it. The thing about messaging APPs is they're incredibly sticky. All your friends are on their. You're going to keep using it and snap continues to be that APP for for a lot of people were. It's a lot of trouble is in finding that next group of users although I I gotta tell you like Evan Spiegel and his team can still pull a rabbit out of a hat it was not that long ago that they introduced a new filter that will turn your face into the opposite gender or a baby and I read a story that said that people were so excited for this filter that snapped at something like forty million downloads in a week you know this is an APP that only has a couple hundred million users in a month. Maybe so it just goes to show you that these things are all very flimsy and fragile and even though like networks can kind of unwind really quickly. They can also come back together. Really quickly is just all about who can and come up with dot next fad. That's really going to captivate people. The thing we should note here is like as Casey mentioned when instagram copied snapchat it decimated David snapchat instagram has a billion users. <hes> has five hundred million people using instagram's stories alone <hes> poor snapchat went public so that means it has to share it's user numbers and actually actually it just had its last quarterly earnings call and doing better than a wise but still compared to instagram snapchat only has a little bit over two hundred million daily active users right. I mean they're growing but they're growing so slow you know they're growing like <hes>. A rosebush planted in like a cracked hold in the desert and it's really sad because every investors call though say like Lee redesigned are android APP and we promise this time it's getting more users. It's like all right guys. I mean okay. I do WanNa note like snapshot though has not thrown in the towel it is still trying to develop interesting products. They recently introduced landmark augmented reality where you can like project a Ramo oops spitting out of the flatiron building like gimmicky stuff but they're a are features actually are really advanced. It's wild though because snapchat filters will have moments like the hotdog filter. That was a thing the dancing hot dog that that was a moment where everyone wanted to use the dancing hotdog. What a cutie the puppy dog filter? Everyone wanted the puppy dog filter the baby filter facebook and instagram actually really behind their they haven't had a viral hit like that all is to say that this is <hes> while we have enjoyed talking about. How does and daily average users? This is not a business show. No this is the story about human beings. Yes humans blood hearts yet simmer down clearly there are people who are still using snapchat because we know that millions of people have downloaded it in the company still exists so we're going to talk to a few of them about what the heck they're doing and can explain the real value adds snapchat to a couple of daughters. That's US a couple of tech reporters who here the quarterly earnings. Calls are like each okay so I think I I took a little trip to upstate New York by a little by me and I was on the train for seven and a half hours to sit quickly to interview. My sister's name is Kim and I'm caitlyn sister. I'm to one years old. I'M GONNA be junior and go. I am Sophie. I am seventeen. I'm going to college freshman so my sisters and I used to have a group in snapchat chat. I was not the most active participant we used to have a sister group snap and you didn't open them eventually. They just stopped snap chatting me and continued snap chatting each other and I deleted the APP a horrible story but this is how I knew they would have thoughts like what the freak use it to talk to Franson funny videos and Fellas. Sometimes I used to talk to boys. I definitely used to at one of my friends graduation parties yesterday because my friend wasn't there yet so I didn't WanNa talk to the people that were there so I just checked snap stories. They both US snaps the location sharing feature that has your little bit Mogi Guy on there and shows all your friends where you are this explains why Sophie never accepted my request to share locations in my friends and I do you snap really. The only person that I checked at a location is my sister Kim because like sometimes I don't know if she's homer not and then other times my mom asks where she is and so I have to check where she is onset Matt as I appeared. They're hanging out without me all the time and they're getting so candid. It's like all bathroom humor. Yes so there's a person that I sometimes have a streak with and her name is my sister Lauren tiffany. I still can't believe you have so many sisters. She's actually really weird on snapchat because the only snaps that she sends us when she's at work pooping so I do still have a streak with Lauren and she's also a big fan of telling you a story in real life and then sending you the same mm story on a video on snapchat though she literally just told it to you ten minutes ago videos of herself sitting in the car complaining about work mourns conveniently mad about this snap without expecting to go on the record. That's exactly when it was. The snap is when you don't want it on the record yeah. I think this is key here. The snap streaks are super sticky. People really care about them and there's no like equivalent of that on instagram none so I think I have about route ten snap streaks. My longest one is eight hundred eighty days and it's with a boy that I was friends within high school and I'm still kind of runs with and are only contact really snapchat but it really keeps our bond together. I guess you could say that. Snaps shrieks are real signal of your friendship because sometimes when I get into fights with my friends they purposely ignore the snapshots. I send them to break our streak so I know that they're met. They're mad at me. Instead of them actually saying something to me actually already knew that snap streaks super important to Kim because last winter when she and her boyfriend broke up she called me you're talking on the phone and she said something really shocking which is that they hadn't broken their snap streak despite not speaking to each rather in any other way we started a snap streak probably a year before we were dating and that we dated for eight months and then I was too heartbroken to snap streak so I made him promise me that we wouldn't ender snap streak and Amen One day we both forgot to snapchat each other and it ended and I emailed snacks for your back. We really varies the next day I said why the freak today do this that I lost the streak. That sounds torturous. I know virtuous. Can you imagine being young when someone UNIN WANNA check in and be like you left your books at my house like I wanna never speak to them again. While I don't want to get into how I've handled handled that I wouldn't continue snap Nell rightfully got but sophie always the more reserved disaffected distant of my sister says the little less dramatic than that I used to have a snap street with my friend Cassie see that was like almost two years and then she deleted snapchat and I was really mad her. I was like what the heck and then she was like. I was born a snapchat and then that was basically the end of that conversation but I'm over it now as as the mentioned before when snapchat snapchat came out parents were super freaked about the possibilities of teens sending news. That's kind of the perennial like Internet freak out new yeah. It's like product introduced. How can this be abused for news? My sister's believe believe it or not said this year was totally founded. One time this boy from our school sent Dick Picks to at least thirty women and I think that he got arrested. He used someone else in the school's name as a cover up so they would think it was the the other person jokes on him because he's uncircumcised so everyone knew it was in guys be cool. We have parents of this show. Snapchat became popular when Kim was in middle school at the time Sophie was too young for it so she kind of missed its peak and is more of an instagram kid and when she goes to college in the fall she doesn't think that she'll use snap streaks to keep in touch with her friends me and my friends mostly communicate through inscriptions. We have like a lot of variations of different group chats on there for like the different subgroups of our friends that like different things we had J. smacks which had jacqueline in it and then we had trump's sucks which is where we sent political stuff that she wouldn't have agreed with but came is still a snapchat die hard because she thinks it's the best place to express herself and get the response she wants. It doesn't have to be like this planned out edited photo that I take time to look nice in because all these important people are going to see it and it's up there for them to see all the time. People follow follow too many people on Instagram to pay attention to my specific story and I need my story to be paid attention to okay. Your sisters have shared many great tidbits here many. I knew they would come. This is a cherished interview in wide you push button history so that that kids are still using snapchat but we also came across a very important use case in adult community. Eh which is when you need to send a nude but you don't want to send it on a dating APP right because that's permanent and you know no these people on dating apps so we get back. We are going to interview someone about how snapchat augments the experience of dating APP. Hey I'm Jason Delray and I'm hosting a new podcast called land of the giants in in it we examine the most powerful tech companies of our time. Season One's called the rise of Amazon. It's about how Jeff Bezos turn what was just an online bookseller into one of the biggest companies in the world and how transformed the way we shop live and in work. We'll explore how Amazon prime is the key to the company's success and how it's something you'll never quit. We'll see what happens when Amazon builds a warehouse in a small Kansas town and then also what happens when it decides to weep and we'll ask why is Amazon building microwaves powered by Alexa and what is with all the robots it's built and of course we'll tackle. The biggest question of our time is Amazon too big too powerful who end of the giants from recode and the VOX media podcast network new episodes come out every Tuesday listen and subscribed for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcasts at hey this is Karen Swisher host of the Rico Decode podcast and I'm here to tell you about a new episode that we published with Mayor Pete footage. Who has you probably know is one of the Democrats running for President in twenty twenty? We talked in-depth about systemic stomach racism in America how much voters care that he's gay and how he would regulate the big tech companies. I also asked him about what he thinks about his competition for the Democratic nomination at the end today we do have to remember that there's going to be like twenty four candidates who are not going to be the nominee nominee need to rally around the one person who is but I think we have seen the consequences of failing to do that. I mean this is not just the sand. The Wolf is at the gates. The Wolf is through the gates eaten are chickens. Our country is in pretty dire shape the nature of primary. Mary season as it's for surfacing differences within our Party and negotiate that's fine. Listen to the full interview now on Rico Decode and subscribe to the show for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast APP to hear more in depth interviews with the twenty twenty presidential candidates we are back and we spoke to a wide you push button listener named Nick who loves using SNAPCHAT TO SEND flirty. Some people are dating sites kind of require you to have a snapchat. I guess to verify yourself maybe because they don't let us the dating APP chat feature and I also use it because it's a good way to send thought he picks to a lot of people quickly the dating site he is specifically referencing here is a gay dating APP called Grinder and it is a very unique place. There's a lot of cat fishing that goes on there or maybe fishing with your own picks just just from like five years ago a lot of profiles. You'll actually see twenty five or under around the age in their profile will say like you know my snapchat. Whatever or sometimes it'll even say like I don't rematch on here snapshots? Whatever and it's like okay as everyone knows caitlyn? I use the dating apps where it's super comment and for people to put their instagram handle in their BIOS or link directly to it but instagram does not work for grinder so grinders definitely more but sketchy place. It's more of a less personal yeah no space than tinder so tinder. It's your name you know lists your job. Sometimes it lets you into college. Many people on Grindr don't even have pictures of their face and so I think it's a little bit lower stakes to reach out to me on snapchat of reaching out to me <music> on instagram where you can see all my friends unlike maybe my mom hearing about snapchat like in its infancy. It was like Oh yeah. That's just enough to send new snapchat is great for nudes mostly because people have set it aside as the news APP. There are people the text like slutty pictures too but like if I wanted to on snapchat like you are going to bed. I'm not going to open this in my work meeting. You know whereas if I texted to you you might be like <hes> I was in the elevator. You know my boxer that over my shoulder you know what I mean. Nick is actually bill a pretty the impressive community around sending his flirty picks because he used grinder for dates tumbler for friends and snapchat to keep in touch with both the great unifier their people that I've never met you know maybe we met on Tumbler or our twitter and we communicate if not every day for sure every week on snapchat by sending each other like a couple like you know in the morning here's my underwear or like I'm getting ready just getting out of the shower you know like sending some thought he picks back and forth. I'm like that's you know we've gone on for years that way. Also like it's efficient to sending twenty picks like enjoy different messages. I can just be like Boop boop boop here you go. I mean I can think of there's a guy that for four years probably probably two or three times a week. I'll get like a woke up like this. Mir southie like nude in the morning. You know like some conversations that go with it but then there are other people like it's like we just exchange photos. Nick lives in the Midwest Shutout Midwest. He's not part of the urban millennial coastal bubble and he says snapchat is a gay Internet essential no matter where you live I think it is a utility in my section of the Internet like Gay Internet still uses natural. I don't think it's a geographic doc thing more incredible. I love that we got him. In Western around the show. I love that Nicu's snapped to keep in touch with his tumbler friends accu- really need to have a tumblers going down in. It's wild that snapchat can like be the place where you send nudes but you can also totally silo it off and be like oh no. This is also the place where I just talked to my friends who liked the same memes as I do. When this whole snapchat Hanoch happened? I was like there's no way people are using snapped after news news like come on now. I'm ready to just say it. It's the new Zap your sisters no. It's the new Zap Nick knows it's the nudes APP but hear me out here <hes>. I don't think snapchat can solely exist in this world for the nudes. You're right. Even people who look real good naked can't take nudes like every single day can monetize <unk> takes too long so far. We've been talking about features snapchat that successfully connect people. I think we should also talk about how people use snapchat to avoid people out there. I know so we spoke to Mac a college student who is currently studying rod in London and Skype at a very late hour for herself a snapchat our I they live in the bay area and I go to school in Berkeley because I live in like a college area where I'm constantly running into other students. That's why I use not maps to make sure I'm not like running into someone. I don't want to earn a into snap make life as a teen so much more seamless this I actually am jealous of. I wish I had this power as a team I mean I love my roommates but sometimes you just need your personal space and sometimes that checks not maps to see if they were in the apartment before going home because because they could decide if I wanted to stay a coffee shop and just kind of do my own thing. They're kind of like be alone in public versus I go home and like have company. If there's a get together and there's someone I had like a falling out with so what I like to do is kind of gone stops and check who's already there and on that basis like I'll be like okay. Maybe I'll go. Maybe I wall and that just kind of gives you a really easy gauge without having to call some or tax someone and be like Oh like who's there right now. Because that feels kind of obnoxious the psych gives me the independence of being able to check. Who's there obviously these tools can backfire? It's very hard to lie about where you are. I have to remember to like put on Kgo smote. Sometimes we're like when if I just want to hibernate otherwise people know that I'm not actually busy. These features are only useful. If most people that you know are also using them Mac says that's still the case snapchat usage probably has decreased but it's still frequent enough that does not maps method has still been fairly accurate for me like my sisters. She doesn't see instagram versus snapchat as an either or situation. She's not a business reporter. She needs both for different tasks. My instagram stories I would definitely a more like filtered and broadcast version of what I was sending to people on snapchat or even the people I have on my snapchat is definitely a much more curated list. Versus instagram is kind of everyone I have ever met. There's sort of intention when it comes to putting in serum stories I think a big feature of that too who is the fact that you can post pictures on instagram stories that were taken prior and make it seem as if it's current whereas with snapchat it ends a lot more instantaneous like when it comes to the people I know like watching their instagram's stories versus or snapchat stories it can sometimes feeling to different people unlike my sister's Mahan hates NAP streaks and thinks they're just immature pre teen boys. I've gotten my fair share of like just like a blank screen with like streaks or Nanette and seeing that snapchat irritates tweets like no no I don't understand the point especially like middle schoolers and younger people where they would send the floor or like a completely blank dark picked boys typically middle school boys have this tendency to like send black screens into just like streak certain on it with the fire Emoji or the hundred Emoji and that's it kind of social capital to like have a bunch of streaks. I remember in highschool. I'd like look at someone's phone. They'd have like three hundred days streaks like fifty different. People Commute distresses me out. One thing we didn't explicitly spell out was that the reason streaks have been so contentious is because they are designed purely to game the the APP right which helps you form a habit with the APP and gets hooked in it makes you wanNA keep coming back and oftentimes that feels really crappy. Stamp also has a feature that involves digital trophies which which is basically if you do certain things on the platform like son ten snaps using the hotdog filter something you'll get a trophy for it that lives in the APP is literally just an icon yeah. It's silly stuff but like a lot of people all are motivated by this idea that they can unlock things and discover things like that motivates a lot of people I feel you. I played Neo pets yeah like I'm not one of those people right so I- snapchat my friend Christie but like occasionally we'll have streaks. I don't feel the need to keep up with them. We lose it. It's okay but I wanted to find someone who is into the snapchat game fide universe and cannot escape it till my gosh and that person is Veronica. A woman in her late twenties living in San Francisco Snapshot Sons December Twenty twelve originally it was a big thing in college and everyone kind of on Mitch spending random copies and stuff and then there was a couple of years there where everyone kind of stopped using it and so did I but then once they kind of revamped whole APP and out of the news aspects of it and all the fun filters maybe like two or three years ago I got back into I and ever since then I've just been you know keeping up all my streaks and trying to get all those snapchat trophies and playing all those little games that they have and now I'm just like still very obsessive that even though I know the user just definitely been dying down compared to Instagram's stories and all that she says snap offers. I things that instagram doesn't I feel like instagram and so filtered. You know where it's like. Oh is this lighting good filter good like. Do people really care about this. Post and snapchat can just be so unfiltered and you can post like a random dog on the street and people are like Oh cute dog and it's just like a nice way way of interacting without having to think about what you're putting out there and she never intended to get hooked just kind of became you know people quite chat with regularly or than match up to regularly and kind of would start to build and next thing you know you have a twenty streak or a hundred day extreme and you're like Oh. How long can we keep going and it becomes his whole source of accountability because you're like you know different time zones and all that or even if you're traveling just almost like this whole nother just fun way to keep that connection going but now she's a streaks fiend? I currently have or long streaks my longest friend Justin who lives in San Diego so we don't really see each other a lot but with him. It's become kind of a running joke because he his mom works in the airline industry so he traveled a lot and so he is like consistently in a different time zone and always like joke like Oh. WE'RE GONNA lose their streak soon and I'm just like don't you dare 'cause ours was also thousand now but we've never come close to losing which is great and her friends are dedicated to the streaks cause to my funnier stick with my Renton. y'All all who lives in Chicago and so she's married with a daughter now and so with her. It's been really great just to see her daughter crop today but I gave her kind of a break one day because she was literally giving birth and house like did now. This is the one day we lose it. You know I totally understand like obviously you're giving birth and she actually went so in the other direction with not shutting me like every hour and I was like you know what you should probably just focus on giving birth like it's too much. This girl kept her streak up through giving birth what the heck that is so much dedication. I don't know anyone in my life. Who's that dedicated to me? That would be like you know a girl. I'm giving birth right now. Take out the phone Santa Pick and while we all admire her for this Veronica acknowledges that life can be hard. Sometimes James and streaks aren't always top of mind. It was just the day I think maybe I had taken our long now. Brad just wasn't really pay attention to my APP and I just log in my snapchat street with my friends and yellow had was gone. It was just like no numbers not Smiley Smiley faces and at that point I think it had been like six hundred or so so I was like I am in trouble like this girl gave birth and she didn't lose a streak and I was like taking a nap so I emailed. I think they have a support system within the APP and I emailed them and I kind of explain the situation and I was like lesson and Mike I really streak back because I've seen like teenagers do the same thing and I was like I know this work sometimes until they actually brought it back and it was really nice. 'cause I would have been in trouble. Okay now. This makes it that multiple people on this podcast have emailed snapchat about their streaks and that snap actually responds. It's so wild to me no one is that interested in instagram that they're going to email them about things like that. Anyway Veronica says because she I just want to email again she will periodically remind her friends about their streak. What I found mostly is that either it just is on its own and you're just not cut out for that kind of snapchat relationship because you know certain people it's like you'll hit that thirty day mark and then and you got the hourglass and then I there X._M.? Or snapchat them and then if they can't remember constantly is just kind of not worth doing but what I found mostly that people who actually live in my area who actually see day to day a lot or the hardest matchup drinks to maintain because they're just always together and it's like there's almost no reason to send all these snapshots like this is like the biggest issue I have a fly. It's not my boyfriend because we'll be like doing the same stuff and then we're like oh shoot. We have to snapchat this because our streak will dive somehow through all of this Veronica's takeaway is that she wants more streaks notifications. She literally wants more of them and I just want her to be free. Never really warn you about it like you have to be in the off and just happen to notice it. I am bad dedicated so if you said that too I forget about my streaks. 'cause appetite doesn't notify you. Who are these people? I'm glad we did this episode. I learned that basically everyone one of my life has this secret second life on Snapchat I re- downloaded the APP because I was feeling excluded by my sisters and it was just a slew of of the put up the bit Moji heads like everybody I know is using this year right. Actually it is is totally a secret second life because instagram the stories like yes. They absolutely copied snapped up to a tea with the stories but it's just become instead of the grid you just post the stories and it's like the same thing essentially right. Everyone sees it. Whatever and now snapchat just has a better messaging feature? I will never use instagram to send video or photo directly. It just doesn't work as well something about snapchat better and it is is all secret and it's all people you really close with. They do also still have like those blockbuster moments. We were talking about like the baby filter or the the gender swap filter which I will kind of problematic. Yeah I enjoyed aided getting into that but it was so popular. My roommate forced me to do it while we were watching the World Cup and then when we started talking about this episode was like earlier in the spring like after it came out and snapchat was like yeah low key like forty a two million people download the APP this month when we moved to issue year later which was almost three times as high as the number of people who downloaded the month before that's crazy spike and then the strange behavior start happening. I'm guilty of this. Where people will we use the filter on snapchat save the thing to their phone and then posted on Instagram Ray? Oh Man instagram such a vampire wild but they can't really like play on on snapchat turf because instagram just not gonNA release gender swap filter Leonard just to put together for that and I just think it's tough to identify that x factor was snapchat but something about it clearly. There's multiple things here but it's just you can't can't get rid of it. I know I'm back. I want my toilet. Yes we are. It's well because we've known each other for nearly four years now and in those for us. We've never snapped ooh I. I don't know how we're going to establish. Just the tone of our snap friends already connected on so many of nervous took back with us in a little while okay. That's it for us on this episode as always you can email us at the verge dot com. You can find Caitlyn on twitter Utah at K. A. I._T.. Underscored Tiffany you can find me on instagram snapchat at Ashley Carmen Thank you to our producers Andrew Marina in sac Mac we also WanNa thank Gotham Sri cushion who does are Dr Scoring and mixing all right that is it for us. We will be talking to you again next week by Hey. It's manically host of the eater upsell before you jump to your next podcast. I WanNa tell you about a new event. That's happening layer the summer in Brooklyn. It's called Eater Youngun summit and it's a one day celebration of upcoming talent in the world of food. The eater young end summit is a day faithful of talks workshops and tastings brought to you from fellow Vox media publication eater. You'll learn from some of the most inspiring people in the world food participate in workshops led by rising culinary stars and tastes amazing food from eaters favorite places across the country once again. It's called the eater youngun summit. It's on Saturday July. twenty-seventh in Brooklyn tickets are available now at bitterly slash E. Y.. G. Summit that's be I._T.. D._O._T.. L. Is Slash E. Y.. G. Summit Hey I'm Jason Doray and I'm hosting a new podcast land of the giants season. One is called the rise of Amazon and it's about how Jeff bezos turned. What was a little online bookseller into one of the biggest against companies of our time? We'll ask why is Amazon building microwaves powered by Alexa and why is it making all these robots and we'll tackle. The biggest question of our time is Amazon too big too powerful.