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The Incredible Hulk | A Marvel Cinematic Universe Rewatch


If we overshoot this by even the smallest integer we're dealing with concentrations with extraordinary levels of toxicity. It could kill him kill him. Yeah I should say so. You should know that. There's a flip side of this too if we miss on the low side if we induce me and it fails. This'll be very dangerous for you. Look I've always been more curious and cautious and that's served me pretty well. So are we going to do this? The world outside your window is not great but here on post show recaps. Everything is super incredible. Even here on everything is super the podcast dedicated to all things super heroic presently focused on the marvel. Cinematic universe new might not even believe it based on the movie. We're talking about today but I swear it's true. This is moving number two for the new. Everybody I'm Josh Twitter. I'm joined here by Kevin Mateo. Who is a man that I actually really do like him when he's angry? In fact I almost prefer Kevin. Some might say that is my better side some for me. People almost prefer the Hulkah- yeah some behind the scenes detail is that Kevin and I we recorded this on like a video chat and we give ourselves like a little nicknames before we sign on. This is three weeks in a row. Kevin that you're the madman So I would I like you when you're mad you'll love me when I'm had. It's actually Something that I'm I'm branding myself now. It's something I'm working on in terms of like grading websites and stuff like that. I'm finally Hadman okay. Yeah I'm I'm going to try and delve into that. I say that someone's going to buy the domain address now and I'm like damn it so you've got a few hours left Kevin before you're finished recording this podcast. The podcast goes up. So if someone is able to Beha- by the madman calm you are. You are in trouble. Someone is actually probably going to do that. So make a note of it to to buy them a hat. Man Dot Com before the end of the night Kevin Incredible Hulk. I mean I really do. Just WanNa talk about them. Hadman DOT COM rather than really dive. Deep into the incredible. But that's what we're here to do. We can't let the people down. This is This week two of the rewatch week. Three of everything is super and yeah the incredible hulk remember that that was time. I do remember that. And at the top of this you just mentioned like the world outside might be incredible like if only the world right now whereas incredibly mediocre this movie was. I would prefer. Yeah that'd be great. That'd be great if the movie was like at an incredible hulk level. I think I'd be. I'd be pretty happy. If the world was. Yes a credible level. That would be great. It's so crazy because like I was actually really anticipating watching because I remember when I watched him out. I had decent memories of it and I still Kinda do. There's parts of this movie that are very biased to me. And I've talked about this or a little bit before. The Hulk actually has like beyond me identifying two levels with that character Really you know could deep connection for me because I I guess. I mentioned that my grandmother who got me into the Superman movie she she got me into by showing me Superman when I was a kid around like four years old. And that's how I fell in love with that character. Especially you know Chris Reeves interpretation but along with that the other thing. My Grandmother and I did. A lot was watched incredible. Tv show. We used to laugh. I didn't know that. Yeah we used to watch it all together like it must have been reruns at this point for sure but like I remember watching it with her. And she really. I don't think you're watching. I run incredible hulk episodes. I don't think so. I don't think I would have been born yet. But like she would like to show and I you know I it would show during the Dan. I remember watching it with her and I think you know she liked bill bixby. The actor didn't he was great and so I grew up watching that and I. I have a lot of stories. I have a great story like insure at the end of this. About Lou rig now The head was very fun. From our days at wizard Yeah on Circuit Loofah Rick. Now Yeah yes always at the Convention yes and this is at the convention that has happened sure but yes all those memories like. I remember going in and watching it and the parts that this movie clearly is a love letter to that old show. I appreciate and I kind of like that. That those aspects of it that made me like that's a reference that's a reference that's a reference you know. I wrote them all down. We could talk about but that I still liked everything else. Save one thing which. I think we can both agree that the best thing in this movie is Tim Blake Nelson. What are we going to be coming from my guy tone but but I gotta I gotTa say I'm here for the Tim's Nelson and Roth? I'm not necessarily here for a meal. Lonski of the character or abomination. I'M NOT GONNA get out here. You know what in my in my villain rankings abomination underrated care five like future or that's occurring more bombs ski. Did well did do great. It wasn't a bomb certainly but it didn't do great it didn't do ironman numbers and I think a lot of reasons behind that. I think this whole comes to the fore with baggage right comes to the to the to the movie theaters with a. Duffel bag filled with stretchy. Purple Pants fit like people. People had seen the stretchy purple pants bad ass people had seen either the TV show or they had seen the Ang Lee movie. That had come out just a few years earlier. The Hulk unlike iron man was iconic already. Like I think the better end for ill but I think like just within pop culture. The Hulk had been an indelible character already and so I think maybe some holck fatigue. I think we can get into the conversation of whether or not the whole works as a standalone character as well as he does as a supporting character. And then there's a lot of other factors as well. I think like much in the same way that there was sort of this free jazz quality to iron man that worked that there was this sort of like Improv style. And like learning it as you go. That really ends up like exploding in this glorious way for iron man when say that it blows out? In a horrifically lake apocalyptic way or an abominable way for for the incredible hulk but it does just sort of like the bomb doesn't go off you know like it's clumsily. Made the thing like you set the device. You think you're going to be able to blow open the blind the bank vault and instead it just like like the flag POPs up that says bang and that's basically the impact that the incredible hulk has and obviously looking back on it. It's a very strange relic. Because we we go forward with with the magical Mr Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner moving all right instead of Edward Norton and I remember at the time when Mark Ruffalo was cast instead of Edward Norton for the avengers. There is a decent amount of uproar about that. It's like a little bit of a continuity breaker at that point. Even though Ed Norton had been the second guy to play Bruce Banner in the span of six years something like that. So what? What's the really big deal but I think when you look back on this movie now even though it's loaded with stuff like in like a really awkward way in a way that feels like it's very hastily put together because ironman landed and it was a huge hit and everyone is now like okay. Go go go. We're doing the vendors it's happening it's happening it's happening. We're doing this. Put Nick Fury in the opening thing. But she'll be opening thing. Get Robert Downey junior getting attitude and you're on the phone right now. Get him down. Said get captain America references for the Tube of Gu Governor. Bruce soldiers were doing this thing happening. So there's there's just like a hasty this to this movie and a lack of cohesion and when we talk about like that behind the scenes lack of cohesion on iron man for whatever reason gelled together into something. That was really great. I think largely held by this like incredible lead performance from already Jay but also like really really competently steered forward by by John Fabric. Who gets the tone and I think that that's the problem with the incredible hulk as a movie or one of the problems is it. Feels like it's that same thing. Where like nobody really knows exactly what they're doing. Zak Penn is the credited writer. He is the writer behind X. Two X. Men United. He has a credit on the avengers. But I believe that the story. That's pretty widely known among people who are like really big nerds for this staff in. He's talked about it as well himself. Is that Edward Norton like he was the ghost writer not ghost rider back to the spectral a second time ghostwriter has been referenced on a podcast in the last week for me every every time that we have to reference ghostwriter on everyone of these marvel. Podcasts oh I talked about it with rob sister Nina on the way BusinessWeek two ghostwriters popping up everywhere but Edward Norton. Data an unaccredited pass on the script. And the Great Torbjorn Frazier. Who has been sending us a lot of behind the scenes tidbits about these movies. As we're going forward makes note of that of this idea of Edward Norton has been writing on the fly. A so like there's that conflict of vision from the lead actor right. Which is that's that that can be. That could be good. Sometimes sometimes that can be bad. I wouldn't when you're really trying to get your hands on the story. And you are also starring in the thing. Are you biting off more than you can chew on? And I think that there's also stuff that's baked in with like the character of the hulk himself where even if he's in a suit Robert Downey junior is iron man all the way through for the hulk. Edward Norton isn't like in a suit so there isn't anything like recognize. We Ed Norton about the Hulk really in fact like basin on a comic book design the whole so like there isn't even a lot of continuity in the translation from Edward Norton turning into the hulk and I believe his voice is supplied by Loofah. Regna which is a nice nod but like it. There's just this disconnect that you're not feeling with the main actor these weird things happening behind the scenes on this one. So it's not a surprise to me that Edward Norton doesn't like ended up moving forward with marble matic universe and I think when you look back on this movie through the Lens of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's just such an oddity I but I remember enjoying it at the time so I was. I was curious to come back and check this out because like I kind of like stubbornly defiantly refused to say the incredible hulk is the worst movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe because it just feels like too easy of a take in my current rankings. Done before everything is super began as a podcast. I haven't as the third worst movie in the. Mc You Kevin my gut instinct right now as I think this just has to be considered the worst movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and I mean that like related within the MC not necessarily is like the worst movie that exists with the Marvel Cinematic Universe attachment but as a marvel. Cinematic universe movie. This has to be last place. I mean by that definition. It's either of that authority. Dark world and dark world matters only only matters because of like you know the aether stuff which Nellie firs back that's true that's true I mean did well. You know I want to disagree with you but no I think you're right in the context of like as an emcee film and how it connects. Yeah it's the worst as all of them lined up. I don't know that it's still my worst. I think my ranking. I think it's GonNa go down and my ranking but I think that they're still in my head one worse which we're coming to them. We just reverend. But it'll be it'll be nice to see how the science decides this for its Amer system. Yes this flawless system that we have going so much science in the incredible hulk. I mean well that's the other thing too. There's there's not there's a bit of Science Science Mumbo jumbo and that's the DMC us a whole has a lot of that but there's a weird Bruce Mann where to start Bruce Banner. I think you said at though is like this is such a different interpretation and I think that's ultimately what it boils down to as well like Ed Norton's involvement in it and heavy scripting. Shir but everything we knew of the hulk up until this point was drawn sort of from the TV show and from a lot of comics that portrayed him as this tragic angsty character. Um We know it's anger Lee is the One yes this is tragic. Anglia care a but like the. That is the interpretation that we saw which is so different from the hall we know now and this is a new interpretation like we KINDA SEE. Bruce Banner as a character through Mark Ruffalo more than we see in these other interpretations because I think that characterised people back because character has to do with so much quote unquote acting through just looking somber like a lot of Edward colonise a lot of like angel. Buffy I actually got. There is a point in this movie. Where he's the him in a bad bets him Betty Eddie bear trying to go at it and he stops. I'm like Oh. He can't have sex angel from Buffy Zanesville not able to have sex. I don't even yeah like that's the whole thing. But he is unable to. They've messed around with what it means but originally it's that he couldn't sleep on it too much. I WANNA I wanNA watch this someday and now that I know everyone's going to watch buffy. You know that right now extra intrigued. That's very intriguing. But yeah it's such A. It's such a different interpretation. I think we see Mark Ruffalo. Do such a great job of really showing. Bruce Banner as a person and what his personality was like that. It isn't the same as that we see here. The Hulk is almost always a hologram. He's just I'm angry. I'm a punch things and that's sort of what we get in this movie here. But like there's ways to be funny and and I don't know incisive with that character that we see in future appearances like the hulk pound for pound is one of the great. Mc CHARACTERS. A few to be took this out really. He's got like no real personality and this other than he's he's a feared of the lightning. He's he seems to really like it's like a dog. What is that. What happening exte- upset but yes. I agree with you on that note and actually at the end of this movie I did write down. I did think that this movie feels more. Like a modern DC movie than it does a marvel movie in that it is about angsty characters. It isn't have the humor that we've come to know for marvel movies and also the ending fight scene was to CGI punching each other in kind of a grayish fiery background. So I was like. Oh my God is this would. Dc like they're doing it right incredible mimic that from now on. Isn't there even a line during that big final fight? General Ross is on the helicopter. And he's like shoot it and they're like which one he goes not the green one. Aren't they both kind of the green one? I guess I can't really tell. Because of the lighting wants a Bright Green Green Grey zone of forest green screen more. Yeah our screen. Very bomb abomination very swamp thing in design. Just like I think sort like the same head shape more mostly like head to neck. Shoulders fills honestly. He came out and I was in mouth nose and Mouth Swan thing very distinct the nose and mouth but that the entire nose mouth and body shape and everything I even said like. Oh Hey it's it's the doomsday. From Batman Superman they look the same and like there is. I think that's a huge separation bed any who's Yeah I I just. I think that have been great with like a clash between. Og Hulk in Red Hook. They both have a betty in common. It's bad same. Betty that's a story for. I don't want to Red Hulk Sir. All right well. Let's let's talk more about this movie. Obviously we've got a lot of feedback to get through. Our people. Were writing in super at post show. Recaps DOT COM. Great Way to send your feedback in. You can also hit us up on the twitter's around Howard. Kevin is at Kev Mateo. We've already talked a lot about the details behind this Louis. Leterrier is the director of the incredible hulk who I really like. He was responsible like largely responsible for a lot of the greatness of dark crystal show. That was on Netflix. Which is a very very compelling take on on on the Jim Henson movie from the eighties. I didn't get to finish the whole thing but what I saw. I was mostly just like mesmerized. Very literal practical level and lots of the story was great. And I I definitely getting back into that some day so very competent director. He made the first two transporter bubis. Give me a good Jason State action movie of the week and I'm happy. Zak Penn as noted is the credited writer with Edward Norton Shadow writer Ghostwriter Secret Ghost rider behind. I can tell you. Nicholas Cage was not in the mix for the incredible hulk. At least no rumors of such too bad. I feel like every movie should consider him at least for a second. Every Louise as would've been amazing out if he'd probably would insist on doing hall in full makeup for sure he would be full cost you know in the TV show dot yeah. I think it's easy to forget that. The incredible hulk came out five weeks after Iron Man June thirteenth. Two thousand eight barely more than a month after iron man first landed so iron man's doing so well and I think truly story is like all right well. People have responded to this. We're going to push forward. We're going to keep rolling the dice we're GonNa do you know ironman too fast track. Then we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA pull the trigger on floor and Captain America. And then we're going to do the the the avengers and like would that energy behind with hall coming out and just a couple of weeks think that they wanted to. They wanted to get some like even deeper connectivity between the the hulk film in the rest of the. Mc You so they get that already JJ cameo at the end Specifically to to hype that up. I think when you think about it in terms of the continuity doesn't really make a lot of sense right like iron man shows up to general. Ross what if I told you I could fix your problem. We're putting a team together but the next time we see Tony and Ironman too again. I don't want him part of the team like Nick. Fury is going to say. We don't want you to be on the team anymore. So the time line is this where he's showing up to General Ross? It's like you said it's like five weeks after came out. They didn't have the full play of locked in just a moment. I mean eight best best if you WANNA continuity we know that Tony and General Ross. Don't get along so for all we know. Tony showed up. I can help you do a problem. And generosity take your suit of armor shoveling up your ass Dick. And then that's where it shook out. Maybe funny funny facto one of Robin's. Mvp was Robert Downey Junior. Which for second. Yeah I think he probably gave it a little bit of a box office bump I would. I would guess you get a tiny tiny amount of already. J. In your whole movie which is great right. Because Tony and Bruce Science for life yes. I think it's not the Ruffalo Bruce but it's nice to see there's roots in it here it is and that's like one of those things that I think makes the hulk working in the future movies like you mentioned this before. Like does Oh work as his own character and it's hard to say yes right now. I mean even the TV show He. Maybe he wears better TV series but that was so episodic and the different beast at the time but honestly maybe he just doesn't work as his own individual character in his own carrying his own movie and everything else like how he plays off of everyone from Thor Ragnarok to the vendor films is really what makes character shine and part of that is of course bruce being able to interact with these other people and Bruce. That's a little more funny or at least interesting but you don't get that one the entire series there's just wandering around being sad you know again not to knock that old. Tv show because all of a special place in my heart but by the way he were not watching it live. It was given came out from nineteen seventy seven thousand nine hundred eighty two. Well I got news or how old I am. The end now Yeah it would have been in repeat so yeah yeah It TV back then was weird clearly had been syndicated and that's it and I even remember. I'd be curious to it's interesting to watch. Actually if you ever watch anything watch the watch the movies where he teams up with one of them and daredevil another. It's great that sounds fun just kind of visualize what that must look like. Amazing looks spectacular. Once looks incredible. Can't even great cast in this like on paper on paper great cast in the incredible hulk? We've got Edward Norton. Everybody loves Edward Norton. Got Live Tyler. Who could forget the animal crackers? William hurt here. Who's the only one who's GONNA continue on? And I remember when William Hurt Return Captain America's civil wars like. Wow really oh so. We're not GonNa just completely forget the incredible hulk. Well you say that but actually Robin came out with interesting theory because I remember it and you have that scene where are holed up a pizza and she was like is that. Martin start all my God. It is and she was just like would it be super weird if this is his character from? Spiderman man then like this is him in college and now he's a teacher it would be the most and she's right. It would be the most odd unlikely of call backs of all things they set up if Martin Stars character in. That second is what they would be hilarious. Well I do believe so. Obviously Martin's star has a pretty big role in the Spiderman movies as one of Peter seachers and he's got a very bit-part as like a computer internal student. Yes at the lab and I do believe that the powers that be at marvel have said like retroactive. Yeah that's just the same guy. Are you serious lake? I mean like yeah. Let's just say guy doesn't matter at all but I'm pretty sure they're like yeah that he saw as a college kid now. He's spider-man's teacher. That's the best thing in this movie like they did that. I think is the best thing about the spill now and then of course. Also the Tim's Roth and Blake Nelson the Tim's Roth and Blake Nelson who I think will we're going to celebrate. Tim Blake Nelson here. Because why would you not? Tim Blake Nelson so hot right now. Looking glass on watchmen. One of the great characters on on that show was the crazy. Cohen Brothers Western. Buster scruggs buster scruggs. He was also brother were. Aren't that like Tim Blake. Nelson is my pick for. Mvp This movie not even a carry or just great timberlake Nelson filmmaker him before really fun person to like to on story with the way that he thinks about character and so like he delivers a very strange. Turn as Mr Blue. What's Sam Sam sterns? Same learn you know your friends of some sort much? I've got a friend named Stern. I've got a couple of stearns in my life Yeah and he is the leader. Yes so he is. The most bill is the leader because maybe there are people who don't know that like what the movie was doing with the Tim Blake Nelson Character. Mister blue was they were setting like the big bad for the Hawk like V. Guy Doctor Doom of the hulk basically right like the leader. Is this Gamma Radiation? Because of course villain who is super intelligent so unlike the hall who gained. Braun and this aggressiveness to him. The leader is super intelligent. He has a giant head where you can see his veins on some very disturbing you kind of saw that happening to Sam sterns and Tim Blake Nelson and this. So it's one of those things I've liked abroad versus brain match up that they do and he is like the Villain Quintessential Hall Bill. In that people. Usually think of it is weird. They're setting that up. I remember this is a this is a fun. Kevin in two thousand eight story at his fullness in him where striving his leather jazz earring so many people that I know have told me about that story now. They confirmed that you have a strut while the ones who you me then for sure he's still do walk. You gotta you gotta you gotta weigh about you. Would you walk I like it? I don't know what it is but I like this. This confidence in me anyway. Thousand Eight store. Yes so when that happened and like he's he's talking to Mr Blue who knew science young Kevin was just like. Hey Yo mister blue is beasts. That'd be crazy straight. Young Kevin was so idealistic to be like they're going to bring the X. men and he could be Beeston like that's what he's called Mr Blue and because he's science. Look I mean we may? We may get such a thing in the future. Now that Marvel was owned by Disney and Disney owns box now the characters and the x men characters can all exist in the same room. I'm waiting I mean the thing so no iron man's dead remember. This is a spoiler broadcast Qatada about that. So hoax need a new science. Bro' who better than Hank McCoy? Do you think that there? That's an interesting question because part of me thinks like the hulk is done as well right like his story and character. I believe so. So they're making the she hulk show for Disney plus is the plan. At least you know obviously all of this is now like in some measure of flux right just because we don't know what the future holds but the plan is that she hawk show is moving forward at Disney plus and I believe that Mark Ruffalo is rumored to be involved or is confirmed to be involved. I'm not sure off the top of my head. I don't think it's been like an a marvel. Pressel release has announced mark. Ruffalo is going to be in it. But they're going to have mark Ruffalo in Hulk's survives endgame. There's no reason to not have him. Continue on mark. Ruffalo seems to really love being part of this world. Seems like a real fun person to to have in that universe in terms of the people who make this stuff. They seem to love him in that family. Even if they can't trust him with the secrets because he goes on talk shows and spoils the shit out of stuff by accident him into Holland man. You know they're not the loose lips and all that So I expect that were definitely not done with a character in the MC you. I just think the way in which he's used it'll be. I'm curious to know I mean I think that that's some of this stuff to talk about here is like I don't think you could accuse the people who were involved in making this movie of not really giving a shit about the hulk like I think that they care about the whole can the hulk mythology quite a bit because a conflict of visions and obviously like. There's the Berry muddled opening to the movie that I remember at the time really appreciating what they were doing that. They have like the opening credit sequence. That gives you the origin story. That just Kinda Yada Yada is through it and like mercifully so because we just saw movie all about this a couple years earlier so yeah we know what happened. He got shot with the gamma cannon. And now he's on the run and the guy with the mustache and he's running from him specifically and so that's fine too just like put that on the credits but like that is also very emblematic of the bigger issues with this movie. Because that's like a solid half hour forty minutes of footage that was shot and conceived of an ultimately discarded but was originally going to be like full-on origin segments of the film. This wasn't shot because it was like a cool idea for the credit sequence that they had like baked into the script. It was like it's a it's a it's a totem to the crisis of vision. That occurred with the incredible hulk. But like you see things like he's new. Ceo Talk about like the incredible hulk. References Doc Samson played by ty Burrell here who I know is hall character but I don't know anything about. He has green hair in the comics. She's also a strong person because also gamma radiation. Yeah everyone's gamma radiated in the in the whole world everyone is in some way they've they've got general Rossier. They've got betty here. They're trying to throw in some DOC Samson. Who's a Rick Jones? Is there a Rick Jones in the whole universe? Yes there is really written into the script. I don't know who that is but I know he is like wake. The boy wonder to the whole expat. Man I suppose you could say that like Rick Jones is like Bruce Banner's like friend and stuff but like it's it's weird you you you rent you mentioned Rick and you mentioned the opening credits and everything and I actually. I did enjoy and I still even watching it. Enjoy the opening credits hitting the origin. Story man I though the way that the the whole Pov. And you. See William Herbert got away from me. Yes that's not ideal but I like to consider view we give yourself just goofy but I can see doing the origin story in the opening credits. Because like you said we just saw it and while the hulk is more obscure like doing another superman movie and being like. Hey here's his origin Batman. Here's his origin. I think is unnecessary for certain characters especially in in recency and I've always been like. Hey just do the opening credits in the origin and the credits could be really good. The best interpretation of this to me is actually the new Batman Superman Adventures which is an animated series. But the opening credits of that just showed a minute. Superman's origin like silhouette art style. And it just does such a great job and this is the goofy version of that. But I don't know do. We need more origin stories at all. We know we definitely don't my point is that I agree with you that this is a great way to handle an origin story. All things being equal but they filmed all of that stuff with the intention of having it in the movie and instead they made like post production decision to chop that Shit and turn it into the credits. And so it's like a little weird. It's a little goofy. It's very expansive if they were just shooting that for opening credits and it's because they weren't they were shooting that for the movie and I think that that is the kind of thing where like you can you can. You can't really see the behind the scenes woes on iron man in the same way that you can't on the incredible hulk like both of these movies were stitched together in a cave with a box of scraps you know in what and one of them flew out at the cave and became the I mean. I guess he's more Hans Solo Than Luke skywalker became like the poster. Man of the biggest franchise of all time and one of them had to get recast for the third time in about a decade. Because this movie was just did not hit. That's my point. That's my and I think that the credits service at the altar of that that point. I think it's a good idea if that's your initial conception but was but it wasn't like Spiderman homecoming is GonNa. They're not even gonNA show you the origin but they like they catch you up with like a really creative like this is what happened in civil war from Spike's perspective just to like get you situated in the character within the MC you like. That's a very different thing here. You know I appreciate not having to like relitigate you know getting zapped by the game of things but it's it's very clear to me that Edward Norton and everybody involved. They love the hulk. So the bigger question than Kevin is it that like is it as simple as crisis of vision is the reason why this went down or is there something about? Hawk as a character that can't gel well for its own adventure. Because I would. I would say that like decades of comic books set in its own specific incredible hulk title and the fact that they're eighty episodes plus five movies of the incredible hulk. Tv series suggests that you can do just fine telling unique hulk stories ultimately no sort of I mean. What's the problem? What's the ISH I mean? I think the issues that ultimately the hulk is a character is a character that superheroes to an extent right like they're all archetypes that we've seen information's over and over again but I think the hall traces even further back to the point that the story is almost too old. Because the Hulk is very clearly. It's a Dr Jekyll situation. Almost to a T. And that story has been told so many times in the idea of like the darkness inside of us and the duality of humanity and everything. It's it's a theme that we see reflected not just in superheroes but in movies over and over and over again the duality duality duality. It's a Buzzword. I especially in marketing. I so many times like hate it but it's not there is that you hate the word but as you work in marketing you must wield it as it is. My is my curse and my power. Yeah but yeah. I think that's the biggest issue with the Hulk and the comics a lot of them. Boil down to the same thing. It's exactly that now. The comics have a little more room to play. They've been around for a lot longer. He's become smart hulk more than one occasion at this point so we kind of have that version of the character that we see what our view of the different a few of the different types of hoax that we in the comics. Which which ones have we seen that are like from the comics that we have also seen in in the movies? Like there's just straight up angry hawk. We've seen a bunch of that. That's like sort of your your your Coca Cola. Classic yes right. There's a classical. There's the there's the one where it's it's more about him in control of it at him. Changing it will which we see happened by vendors come around so there's that version of the character and then the really the last version we see really is the merged hall where it's a hoax body. Bruce Banner's brain That was something I think. Grayhawk was hulk in the comics that that had that had that had that ability greenhow because the angry one and then they started more callers than the real ridiculous but I think those are diversions. There's there's ones where it's sort of like. I don't think we've ever had like the Hulk Brain in Bruce Banner's body because that would just be an angry would it really Mark Ruffalo? Get his hands around that though. That seems yeah so like Because this'll be dead like him and the IRONMAN armory hopeless. Marin Infinity War But yeah I that. That's the main interpretations the that we've seen before and then there's the unbridled one where to the extent where Bruce Banner you know they talk about again. The contracts been around forever the reading it has certain level of still being him. It's just his anger so he's still a morning control and there's been points where He shuts off Bruce Banner completely. And it's just the angry angry rage monster and like that's a version of the character to happen. Sometimes another good interpretation man nominee who it is and I feel terrible. It's either as a Rolo or Brian K Vaughan again who did a series called banner. That was really good and I think is one of the better hulk stories that tried to really play with that character in interesting ways but again most of the stories really are that what we saw in the avengers films handout works is just it is a version of Communist. I just had it done it before and played within such as you know yeah. I think I'll be curious to see how she hulk series works completely different. Well yeah but I play playing with the gamma world and playing with the. You've got a monster inside of you. And how do you choose to use it? Because that's that's really what the whole cause about right. It's like everybody's angry or everybody has something inside of them that they try to keep away and then what happens when it comes out can be in control of it. Do you have to surrender to do surrender control to the thing and in the case of she hulk who's his cousin right and she is an attorney. She kind of Freakin loves being. She hoped right. Yes Yeah Jennifer Walters. Who is the hawks cousin who gets powers because of a blood transfusion which at a certain point? Maybe don't use your blood knowing what what it is. But she M. C. You can imagine that like Smart Hulk is could be like. Yeah no totally give you blood. It's GONNA probably turn you into a hawk but I think that's great. I love being hawk. And she's probably yeah. You see winky. You've really chilled out. You eat a lot but like other than that like you seem like really really hip with it. So maybe like she wants it. Maybe she wants. I mean it could be quite possible in that way. Because that's what she hook is is is is more Kim what we see with the Smart Hulk where emerged Hawk where she has the hulk body. She Still Jennifer Walters in her mind. She doesn't have as much as duality. At least in the popular interpretation of the character made really really popular by Dan Slot. Who's she hawks areas so good and I hope that's the influence for the show honestly. She's a big green attorney and It's great and you know there's an interesting dynamic to that character because of that so yeah. I'm also excited to return to the Hulk World the day of established here. I just I really. I don't think the hulk world that they establish here the incredible hulk works the here of the Marvel Universe that we know now does work. If that makes sense repeatedly say like in the world where we now have a gun toting raccoon. Yes talking tree work correct now you can probably get the whole family exactly and you can have fun with the Hulk and I think that's the big difference too. Is that back? Then you've got to remember. This is the time of Sam Rainsy. Sam Raimi's spider man. This is the time of the Darker Tone X. Men this blade this is you know. Ironman just came out. Ironman just came out to change the game but back then superheroes were about angst drama and seriousness. So you couldn't have the whole that we have now who can have fun and be amusing and charming and everything like it's such a different way of looking at these characters. Time Change Josh. I've so I've heard so all right. So let's talk plot real quick. I mean we talked about the. We talked about the opening credit sequence in that really. Outta Yada says through the origin but then the the action the action picks up where Bruce Bruce's hiding now Brazil working at a bottling factory. As the Sodas look great give me one of those those great green sodas that what do you think the flavor is it's Probably the same flavor a surger toe cooler. It's such a nineties looking soda. Even though this movie takes place in two thousand and three and so very bizarre like I'm sure it was done because this is like it looks radioactive. And he is like yeah. I mean Isis Rick that Soda. Don't get me wrong I drink it now. Yeah I was GONNA say anyway. Don't don't shave the Soda Kevin. I know your habits. I know how you imbibe. You'd you'd crush an incredible hulk flavored mountain dew. Oh Yeah I feel terrible about it afterwards but I would drink the bottle. Keep your great while you were doing. Yeah Yeah field. Do you want to try to go down the Lor curl the ball? What's your favorite part about Bruce's life in Rio de Janeiro dog? Which I'm so upset that they drank that dog later. What happens to the dog? He'd ever even out just gone and like that. How do you know he's the bad guy on the dock? Do they turn it into one of the whole dogs from retroactively home possible? It'll be depressing a big time big time. Yeah that's probably. The only thing is interesting. I mean about like the breathing techniques sees learning breeding techniques because his heart his heart rate goes above two hundred. Beats per minute Kevin. That's eight team over very very exact science. Sign the hulking out process. It's really weird. I mean from the from the level of a studio. I can see them being like well. We need to have some sort of indicator to show that he's going to transform an actual ticking clock. That's how I imagine studio exact stock. Yes just ask why. That decision was made. I'm not saying it's a good decision though like it's just such a such a clear like studio direction almost or just a direction to be like. Well we have to have some sort of indicator that's how that's how screenwriting dictates as opposed to like. I don't know having the actor act. You know I the breeding techniques part. I did enjoy only because it came back to my favorite line from the movie later which is when him and Betty had that exchange about. He's like you know. I have some breathing techniques. I can show you Which is probably the part of the movie where my that. Where was that? Where is that the rest of the movie? You could use more of that. My favorite line from the movie comes up right around this segment of the movie where he's like fighting the people at the factory who do not like. Kim. They don't even they don't even the like Bruce Banner and he says don't make me hungry. You wouldn't like me when I'm hungry. Spanish or Portuguese is a translation error. So that's fun. Yeah that's that's one of those of course call backs to the incredible Hulk TV show. Yeah the Amazon. Made BY BILL BIXBY HIMSELF. So everybody knows that quote. It's just a lot of Edward Norton. Yes in these scenes and I love it. Norton given the ever Norton has been in so many things that I that I have enjoyed. Whether it's fight club or it's you know he's he's had some really good comic roles but if you ever saw keeping the faith the ROM com with Ben Stiller in Jenin. Elfin that he directed I believe he directed that. Oh my by like underrated favorites of all time. Like I just like that. We just want like a good movie that I know exactly how I will feel coming into an out of it. That's a that's A. That's a movie that I'll put on. It's got a great Elliott Smith. Sound Drop I love the Edward Norton. You Miss my favorite movie. Which is what death us. Michigan Ritchie friends come in all sizes times in theaters. Six Times Bucci. Six Times Theater Fair. I worked at a movie theater at that point but I kept bringing friends like literally. It was two of us that started an every other subsequent thing we brought more people who then brought more people so by the end is just an entire group of us who each side you know together over and over at this point and we're also singing the songs the empty theater. Because was there anymore. I love that movie. Legit loved movie. Which is why I think has the acting capabilities can do. I mean death. Jesus MUCCI is not the reason why Edward Norton has the ability a rounders lake. You know you name it. There's just like on the twenty fifth hour. There's there's an Edward Norton occasion for all seasons and yet. I don't know if I really felt this so much at the time. And we we talked about why he doesn't connect in the same way that Robert Downey junior is afforded those opportunities in all of the other characters are like they're they are the character start to finish even if they're in like a CGI costume or whatever. You Know Edward Norton is not like actually halting out. So he's nine. You're not connecting with the actor on that level but the end that there is something about Edward Norton in these scenes as he's running around from spot to spot that I cannot put my finger on and I really wanted to be able to figure out how to articulate it in time for the podcast and I just have not landed on it and I wonder if you have any thoughts about it or if you agree with me that like it just doesn't work in the movies asking you to spend so much time with this guy especially in isolation and in you know knowing what he's going through and he doesn't want to bring out the hulk and all you WanNa do is for him to fail because you want to see the hulk so let's just like I spend so much of the movie rooting against Bruce Banner and I don't know that I would if it was mark Ruffalo. I think I've loved Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner in a way that it just doesn't work for me with Edward Norton and I have never been able to figure out exactly why that's the case it's because the most interesting part about this version of the character is his transformation into the hulk. So that's the only thing you want to see him do because he doesn't have enough of personality for you to care about following him at the beginning he's just you would think that. Edward Norton is talented enough actor that he would be able to imbue that into Bruce. Banner and I just don't get it. I kind of like to me. It's like if Cory Matthews had been like zapped with the gamma radiation was on the run to become the hulk like feel he feels like very boy meets world to me Cory Matthews. I think has more personality like like Corey has a personality. It's it's an annoying personality but it's a point personality that you are watching bill baby boy cory Matthews did like in length. The college years he was just kind of just like one note angsty. Oh yeah he turned. I mean like that Character Cory Matthews. Yeah he got Ross pretty hard. That's important just all character. Attributes accept euro annoying him went away. This is sort of what it feels like. It's like when this boy meets hulk. All you really WanNa Shawn Hunter Obscene. I mean that'd be great writers strong as Bruce Banner. Yeah Baby I actually don't think that would work. Might we really worked so I don't I don't know I don't know it never really works for me and obviously we do finally get some Hulk Action because at the Soda Factory Blood Cam Right. When when Bruce? That's just one drop of blood falls and he started the whole thing. Shut down like okay everything. Look good but yeah job told the gotten to bottle and poisoned Stanley. And so now they all know how to find Bruce Banner which also stay in lease Kamya. We actually didn't talk about that last time for Ironman the Stanley Grammy Where Tony Mistook him for you. Hafner do you want to rank the Stanley Cameos as we go here? Is that worth doing? We can't I mean. Let's do it informally we can do an informal ranking. I would put this without. This is just as we go. Yeah I think I would put this one above the ironman. One of my favorite one already off the top of my head is I feel like I know when that is to But I think that this is. This is actually Stan Lee drinking a gamma irradiated soda. I think is actually a pretty high up on the Stanley. Cameos for me. Yeah I mean it's great except we better than him being hugh hefner. Yes which is funny. But like you know doesn't really make a ton of sense and here as the guy who drinks the whole juice because it makes you think about like is there a Stanley holck somewhere in the marvel cinematic universe because that's fun if there is that. Don't make me excelsior. Your you like me when I accelerate your but yeah I think he. He had A. He had a moment to be really fun in this one with his exaggerated you know. Oh no thanks. When he drinks it so definitely. I think this is up there because it's one I remembered immediately when the movie started versus other ones that I don't remember coming on at all so it certainly sticks out in a great way which has tactic. I didn't remember the Hugh hefner thing when ironman started until it happened. I was like Stanley this I knew I was like Oh yeah. He drinks the soda. Yeah so so. Bruce has been communicating with Mr Blue. Who We know is going to be. The Tim Blake Belsen character. He's reaching out to him as Mr Green to Mr Blue. But little. Does Mr Green know that Mr Orange. Himself is on the way The the other Tim Tim Roth Reservoir Dogs. Beim is showing up here as a mule. Blonde Ski Special Forces agent a these just doing his his Tim Roth thing you know there's really no dimensionality the character whatsoever. It's just Tim Roth who I love as an actor playing a mercenary who is very impressed by a monster and very offhandedly at one point in the movie is going to say like yeah man if I was like ten years younger. I wouldn't WanNA fight that guy and Mustache. Ross is GonNa say oh well. I could do something about that. And that's the ARC is. He just gets like boosted with like steroids. He becomes like a road rage monster. That's the meal Blonde Ski Story which I mean they could have done more with the character. I think. I think it's also bad patrol not portrayal like he. Tim brought the Great. I loved him. Ross I think one of my favorite scenes in the entire movie maybe. My favorite scene in the entire movie is when the two Tim's are together and he's like on the cusp of abomination and he want Sam sterns to like hook them up as like a what that I need. When you said that thing now I need that. I laughed so hard at one in the morning the other night as I was watching the incredible hulk. It's like I have completely forgotten about like Tim. Roth is a meal. Blanquita just like showing up to Tim Blake Nelson as as the future leader. Erstwhile leader. That's probably one of my favorite scenes just because of the two of them playing off each other. I think did great. You find that you you had these two very very very talented actors like kind of having this despite the fact that it was like an intense scene conveyed in a like a really interesting way actually really love their interaction with each other. Yeah and it is it is. It is odd because like I feel like they could have done more with the character in terms of like. He's an old military mercenary. Who has done? He's he's everything he's being every single thing that's ever come in front of him and you could have had this guy who just so bored with life. Because he's so good at killing and then he finally encounter something that he can't beat an drive him to this level of just like this one the type of like adrenaline. I've been missing that. I haven't had a decade and I need to beat Ed because it's just the thing that I haven't been able to do. You does something with that. And instead they didn't really. I mean you kind of had it there but yeah it was. It was not a great deal of ranking. I'm sure well then turning them into a CGI monster like you completely lose anything. That's working about meal blonde ski and it's literally just the performance performance like Tim. Roth Lake at least it was like stain. Yeah it's mostly the performance there but I think like there's some stuff that is like good dramatic commentary take a specially like actively. I give a little bit of a bump up a little bit of a boost me up because I think he book ends the Iron Man Dylan The the ironman rogue scour the pretty nicely with him in Thanos like I think are like both like kind of like greedy guys like they're both after something and I liked the way they mirror each other in the mail. Bonski is just like a more like a meal laskey. Ooh That's really good. That's really good. But Tim brought this. Great Tim. Roth Roth is always great Let's see I'm trying to think of a four rooms as a fun Tim. Tim Rocklin and Rosen dead. Go for comedies. You lied to me to tell when you're lying like all these other people would superpowers. That are to me. I won't like it if he lied to me. And so he goes to Brazil and then hall cokes out for the first time in several several days several months whatever it is and he wakes up in Guatemala. Yeah I do have to call out though I did. And I will always love that shot because it was another reference where he when he starts to transform falls over and he has his basis and shadows and you just his eyes and they turn Green. That is again a reference to the old TV show. And I love love. Love that shot. I loved it in the old show. I love it here. That does stand out to me. I also think it's weird. This is another thing indicative of the time where it's very much just like hold back to help you. Can't show him look. He's in shadow. We can't we can't reveal him. We gotta hold it back hold back whereas now these days no vendors half a second where he's sort of in shadow and the next second he's in broad daylight fighting thor and it's great like I think that's something that's also very very different is. It's like weird back then. It was all about holding it back not giving fan service whereas now it's like the right balance of allowing the fans have they won allowing the audience had at but being like holding it back so they can just anticipate at more. I think that's that's a very old school style for For the period superhero films. I like it when he wakes up and he's walking and you get the lonely man theme that's a that's a great music Q. One of the greatest music is I think of all time. It's so good. Maybe the actual highlight of. The movie is like that moment of like. He's just walked out everything that he's been trying to do for years now to not hulk out he's failed. He's on the run against this little life that he's created for himself in Brazil has blown up and now here he is again the lonely man and you get that you know that that Hawk TV series theme song that's iconic even if you didn't watch the show like me like I know that like I mean I can't imagine we're not gonNA end the podcast with the lonely men the county. You're not this week so really great stuff and then what I mean. Are we really going to go blow by blow through the movie like? Do we really have to do that here? There's kids like he goes back home. He Finds Betty. Betty's he doesn't want betty either. I don't want to bother her. She seems happy with the modern family. Guy Oh God. She sees me. She knows I'm here to help me. Get some stuff from the science labs then things go awry and he bites a tank and a male blindst wants that he needs that so he's been infused with some super soldiers theorem because General Ross's Hook them up with the stuff and meal. Blonde ski gets like so hot on his own. Shit that he He goes up one on one just himself against the hulk and there's some really cool shots of him running on the field. I really like yes that will work that. Actually that's another thing. I remember from when I watched this because I appreciate the cap reference like. This is why they had this formula. Because it makes sense to me that the government would be like we got. Reputa- replicate that. We got some of that as a war. We need them. I need that. Where government around super soldiers out I but like I remember in the theater. Cap was a twinkle in the. Mci point they were hoping for it but seeing him run on the field seeing him fight the halt the way he flipped away he moved. I remember sitting in the theater. That's how captain America's GonNa move because the jewelry and the style that was capped to me. That's how they did it and sure enough they did keep that in this movie influence stylistic movement because it is unique to him. I applaud that because I do love how he moved because he moved like how I always imagine. Captain America should be. That type of speed is almost a mimic of the worries where he's running in front of everyone in the same way he's doing those flips. It's the same thing we see in Windsor soldier. So I really did like that part up until he became weird abominations Jagai. But yeah. But it's a really. It's a fun shot when he goes up to the hogs like that's it that's all you got and then hawks like no let me just like punch across the field but we just boots. He's like roles. And it's a tree what we're at the point of the movie where it's just like kind of like fetch quest meets like Smash Smash Smash Blow Up Stuff. Yes if there was nuance in the movie. It's mostly gone at this point or if they are doing character work. It's pretty dry at this point Hawk runs off with Betty. And he scared. He's a feared of the lightning scared of the thunder and then like she tries to get him pants and he turns down the stretch Purple Pants. He doesn't WanNa be the purple pants bad ass. But that's a nice nod to hold law that is traditionally in those purple pants and then they give give blonde ski more of the stuff. He's back on his feet probably too soon. And then it goes to New York and this is where they beat Mr Blue Samuel sterns and we just maybe should spend a little more time just talking about how Great Tim. Blake should absolutely spend more time with two thousand. And there's a reason why we had the podcast opened with that quote from Tim. Blake Nelson because that whole scene is another highlight from the movie. Because he's just so fun and accenture because this character and like you gotta imagine what What Bruce had been like expecting and hoping for from the guy he was that was on the other end of the computer this whole time. And it's just this guy was like Berry giddily enthusiastic about the prospects of exploiting the gamma stuff. Not for the same reasons. That general Ross does before reasons nonetheless when all Bruce wants is to get rid of this stuff and burned in a fire and throw it away and lock away the key and he also has this line about how we're talking about a razor's edge. This is dangerous stuff. We're talking about doing here and if we do it wrong we could definitely kill the hulk. And if that's not a Meta comment on the movie thankfully dated not kill the Hulk. I mean they are they put him down for a while. Opposed but like yeah. I'd like this movie. He went away for a period until he was needed and he showed up at the end. Like yes I love that and I loved. I loved his energy. I loved his s interested. Muscle liked the character. I thought was interesting because like I don't know it's hard to be like he wants to exploit against a yes but he's specifically just like there's so many diseases we can care so much good we can do with this and it is always weird. Then have a good guy be like no. I don't care about the good. It's bad for me because look what it did me so get rid of it and I think that's crazy dog. Yeah but maybe he doesn't trust this guy now that he keeps seeing him up. Close like you. You're way too excited about this. You smell vaguely of a cheese. I dislike like whatever it is like. He's like I don't know that I trust this person. Yeah and I feel like that's more like you know the audiences in slow trust them so therefore you know but also I mean. There's the bias of his. Tim Blake Nelson. So you just want to like him. Put that put them in more things guys just across Hollywood. You're all listening to this podcast. Please put Tim Blake Nelson and everything everything. He touches his goals. Yeah I also really like. I mentioned that accounting is touches reflecting is reflected right back he sees inside you while you are but like I love even his delivery of lions right like that moment were Blonde Ski Hasim. And he's just like I say. Was I going to do it? I just need consent. I really love that. I would be very here. Just like the biggest. What if theoretical about this movie is like? What does this movie improve? If mark. Ruffalo is playing Bruce Banner? I don't know that it does I think we. I don't think this movie exists if Mark Ruffalo is as Bruce Banner because it plays out very differently because we're norton is such a critical player in behind the scenes best. I don't I don't think that it. It comes out quite the same way so the Ruffalo one is obvious but like mine is like what happens if like they had allowed. Tim Blake Nelson to continue on as the leader. I love him now. Guys US residents here. I think I could do it. I think you could bring him back like I think you could have. Tim Blake Nelson on for she. Hulk a dig you can have like maybe like he was arrested for like experiments that were like elicit and maybe like he's up for parole in she. Hulk is representing him. Rise bad guy and incorporation into she hulk Tim Blake Nelson back as the leader. Home God I think that'd be fun. It'd be amazing that'd be like at the end of the day. They kept the best things of these movies. Which is William Hurt Nelson and Martin Star? So really you. Then everything would come full circle the perfect way while unfortunately at the Hawk can't come full circle Bruce Banner and Betty Ross. We'll have one scene where they're in the hotel room together and it seems like they're about to get hot and heavy but that clock can't go past two hundred beats per minute. He's he can't enjoy their angel he can't do it so they figured out how to like Successfully stifled the whole. Maybe they've got an antidote to the transformation and then banner gets shot with the trank and he gets taken and then Blonde Ski. He comes to stern. I need that won't at and he gets also that as you say also. Has that line just love? Tim Blake Nelson. And just like. Why do you keep hitting people hitting people is very funny? Yes he does the thing. And then he gets a cut on his forehead and some of that The Gamma Goo drips down into Samuel sterns forehead and you just see his head bubbling. It's like Oh yeah because the leader has a giant head and he's smiling. And this is like the terrance our next time baby. That never comes to pass. That's essentially what's happening here is like we're setting up. Dr Sterns the leader for the incredible Hulk to accept that movie does not happen. So maybe in a future scenario that we will. We will see that. Come to play but a meal blonde ski full abomination now and he starts like wreaking havoc all over. New York takes it out on Harlem specifically would he? What did Luke Cage? Think of all this is what I wanted to. I mean that's probably the influence I mean. You have lots of levels where they discuss about the fact that the marvel shows take place in modern day. Things like Hell's kitchen and Harlem especially have really not the Harlem an Hell's kitchen of the past and so they've sort of referenced in the show and I think actually that the incident went to halt the incident in Manhattan would avengers have basically made Hell's Kitchen Harlem the version that we Kinda knew then so it. You know it's it's not it's not Donald gentrified version that we know now so I think that it does do an extended this influenced luke cage and daredevil respectively but Yeah I agree way. Maybe maybe Omar was luke cage and that was going to be the setup. Can you imagine That have been good. Good that would have been dope. Why was he there? What was that I watching this? I was like legit like wait. Is that Omar was blinking blinking. You'll miss it. Yeah I think we may have a little something on the behind the scenes. Let me just really quickly look and see. No I think I think we may have lost in translation somewhere but I think like someone just loved him and he was like yeah. Let's just get Michael K Williams in the room for sure. It's just I get it but it's also just distracting moments. Just like he's a person he could be the next Martin Star like we don't know who Michael K Williams may become. I would love to love again. Just bring back all the weird part of this so bruce better like look what you did General Ross and then Betty's like yeah dad you suck. I think that's a line. And he's like you gotta throw me out of the helicopter. I'm the only one who could stop them. And it's a cute scene where he's dropping and he's like. Oh Shit it's not working. And then he like slams down into the ground and how is he not just debt because he transforms before he hits judge? Come on now. I guess he hits the ground and it doesn't look like it but I guess that must be how it works and then there's a fight it is just like Amorphous. Cgi thing hits a more busy thing really hard. This is a bad fight. If we're if we're ranking in fights we could do that on the fly as well. Ironman one one the incredible hulk too. Yeah for sure like without question. I think this one's lower on the list and you know at the beginning of the fight. It goes back to that same thing I mentioned before about the The fight taking place in you know in the six from the environment and you get cool moments you get the whole hit. A police car and half and put them on like boxing gloves. And it's probably the best part of that fighters. Oh that's really cool. Then they just go into like a collapsed building that is there and has things. And you're just like Oh okay and then like the helicopter shows up as a set piece but like yeah. The fight really just goes downhill. They had moments where like that. The the him clapping to put out the flames. I thought was cool. That's something we've seen in the comics. You know we say Hulk Smash which was which was fun. I the only thing about that though is like it's a weird context for it. I don't think it worked the line. But I appreciate the fact that Lou frig no finally gets a hoax bash but like the fights just kind of bligh and like you know. He's going to go tear off. Buddies. Don't do that noted when he leaves them alive. You know maybe a meal blonde ski is going to be up for parole in. Bruce Banner's cousin is going to either issue prosecutor or a defense attorney. She is a prosecutor. If I'm not mistaking maybe she got thrown back in that guy. Get JUSTICE FOR TIM. Roth bring him back to get the Tim's Blake Nelson and Rossa back into them. See You because abomination doesn't die. He's fine he's alive. They just need to like. They need to give them that antidote. He kept on the rights. Maybe maybe he's on the raft of Hawk leaves. He runs away and he never is seen as at Norton. Final thing is like he's like kind of like controlling the Hulk. A little bit more is there continuity from that final shot of him doing the yoga pose unlike controlling the hulk out with where he's at as as Bruce Banner in the Avengers Pie. I always out like when the vendors happened. And he you know He. He transformed in the awesome awesome when he does at the end. I thought that was influenced from that shot because like I thought you know showing he's trying to be able to control the Hulk a little bit better and I think that's where we are in Certainly in the MCI version we see in avengers. Of course it's the teasing lead up to the fact that he can do that but I certainly think there is a concentrated in there. You can pull which I which I like. You know that was also drawn. I mean this. This had pieces and vendors when we talk about pieces but there is a draw like that shot. The famous out of the Hulk is pulled straight from the ultimate and this the same thing where he's being pushed out of the plane and transforms on the way down which we see here and then also see to hilarious. Callback effect in in Iran Iraq is also pulled from the ultimate. Where they did that were they accept they. They forced me threw him out of the plane and he transforms before he hits the ground. So you do see a lot of influence of the ultimate I think in in a Lotta the MCI going forward but that that all speaks to what I was saying. I don't think you could accuse the people who made this movie of not caring about the hulk like they care about the whole. They love the Hawk their into the character you know. They're definitely like they wanted to pay homage to the show. They were doing doing their homework. They were you know they were getting. They were making it work. They just weren't actually making it. As is the issue. Obviously the final scene in the movie is the is. Do we count this as opposed credit seat because I guess I just always remember this post credit scene but it is the final scene of the movie free credits? Would Tony Stark shows up to see to hang out with the General? Ross is just get bombed just getting shit faced. Because he's just like screwed everything up at his daughter is probably like. I never to see you again. Dad and then Tony. Stark shows up and speaks of nonsense about team. He's forming that does not align with the rest of the continuity of the MCI whatsoever but we forgive it because they just wanted to hype things up you gotta you gotTa respect. The hustle admire the hustle. But does this count as opposed credit. See and are we just gonNA grandfather at into the post credits scene tradition. I mean I think does and my maybe it's my memory as faulting me but I thought I remembered when it was in theaters. It was a postcard and they may be just bumped it up because this was an Amazon prime rental. Because it's not on Disney plus but I coulda sworn it was post credits when I saw it in theaters but again I could be wrong. That's what I feel like. We should still count it because that was the way in which would have been ten down. We'll count it will count will count it. Yeah speaking of seeing in theaters versus seeing it now. My apologies to the folks out there who I'm sure had to had to rent like had to purchase a rental of the incredible hulk right because this is not on Disney. Plus if you've got a Disney plus membership where you can stream all the MC you movies. The reason for that and the reason why we haven't gotten another whole solo film. And I think that like the story behind this is still muddy to a degree that I don't know that anybody has it like fully straight but the incredible hulk it was released by universal. They have the rights to the character. As far as like Solo Film appearances entitled Film Appearances. I believe Marvel Studios. We didn't really talk about this too much before. But they were releasing through paramount's before they were bought by Disney except for the incredible hulk which was coming out through universal but marvel studios was producing it so universal still has those rights so Disney does not have the rights to stream the incredible hulk. So we're it's all of this stuff makes no sense to me. I just I cannot compete it properly. So THAT'S A. That's a bummer. But people have to pay for this degree. That's I apologize for making you pay for it. Anyway that's the movie we'll get into the rankings of everything in a little bit. We've got some feedback to go through any reports from from the trenches with watching this with Robin that you did not get into Kevin. No I think we hit most of them. Yes she she she has. Well really liked the scene with Betty and nor in we had lengthy discussions her. And I about do we see this version of the hulk like if continued. Wh- what we would have ended up with. We have what we have had thor. Ragnarok which is a very very good question so we had discussions about that but overall I think we hit. Oh no sorry. Oh my God I remembered my favorite Robin Story to share hair because we were looking at betty and I was like men. Look at those bangs. Like I feel like that was very indicative of that time period and Robin was just like this. Like about two thousand nine. I looked it up and I was like two thousand eight. She's like yes. She was going through a phone and she turns her phone. And she's like this is me circa two thousand nine and it's just the exact same haircut with the same bangs just like that is perfection so wants to share as always or stuff is going to be hair and font related hair and makeup all right. Well let's get into some feedback. Some community reviews on Hulkah- I'll read some excerpts free Kevin. You may like this This Erin Tao who wrote in and said I was genuinely excited. Rewatch the incredible hulk. Obviously I saw it in theaters and maybe wash it before the first avengers but I I remember hating it but this time I was going to be different right. It's been more than a decade. We now had hindsight and I was coming into the movie with the lowest of expectations. It's going to be fun to see some Easter eggs and see how Edward Norton handled the struggle between banner and the Hulk. And Oh wait. Tim Blake Nelson in rural. Or in this I remember them at all. This is going to be kind of fun. Twenty two minutes in and I'm considering turning it off. That is the review goes on. But that's the punchline from Jason Lee congratulations on the wand off wind Jason Lee. Jason Lee says actually never saw the incredible hulk on its initial theater. Release an only watch it for the first time during my pre game full series re-watch and seeing it consistently come up in the bottom one or two slots in most MC rankings. I was surprised at how kind of Brain Leslie enjoyable movie was but not enough to make it out of my own second to last slot. A lot of it doesn't really work and of course the whole thing is basically inconsequential but ultimately. I didn't come away from this movie thinking I wasted two hours. And I suppose that's all you can ask for from a low tier MC you film Kevin. I think that that's an interesting point. Is this something that we're GonNa be talking about along the way that like if this is the worst. Mc You movie and this the biggest sin that the incredible hulk commits is supposed to just forgettable. And it's not cohesive with the rest of them see you in like a really tangible way. It's maybe not a special movie and it's not a successful one financially. It's fine but like obviously like they don't move forward with Norton. Is that like a real endorsement of the overall that like this is the one that we're probably going to be bagging on the most. And then maybe next week a little bit with. Ironman too and then it's GonNa be like smooth sailing until dark role. Yes I mean. I think that says a lot about what the did. There's an extent where the the worst. Mci movies are so better than a lot of other movies for sure. I mean we would my rankings. I try to keep the bracket just within the and the worst. If this is the worst thing it's still as good or better than a lot of other superhero films which says a lot Certainly again better than goes right if you WANNA pick on the marvel catalog. But there's there's another universe there yeah so it is interesting right. This is the worst of this movie is a boring. That's still like all right. I mean you know it's not straight trash just probably again why I think it right now and so the bottom of our list but maybe might not be West. Make in handwritten in with a decently long review. But I just WanNa read is first sentence because it's West Bank and Wrightson says that was Comma. Not good that is. That's the opening which I greatly appreciated Lawson Campbell had written in and said I was surprised while watching Edward Norton's portrayal of Bruce Banner was not that dissimilar to that of Mark. Ruffalo or maybe. That's just a huge compliment too. How well Ruffalo slid into this role. Do you have any further thoughts and sort of like the continuity of the Bruce Banner character like because it was this thing where like when they brought all the avengers out on the COMECON stage in San Diego before the avengers was was announced officially and they bring everybody out and they bring Jeremy Renner and they bring up Chris Hemsworth and bring it Chris Evans and bring it Robert Downey junior and Samuel Jackson Scarlett Johansson and Mark Ruffalo Martin. There was definitely like a thing and now lake. It's like an who. Obviously everyone knows who had norton is but like Mark Ruffalo is so universally loved as the hulk. If you don't love Mark Ruffalo is the hulk. I guess that's a take. You can have wrong. Why why did it end up working out so well when the deck is so set against that transition being smooth 'cause it ends up being very smooth is it Ruffalo. Is it the weeding? Like what is it? That makes it work. I mean I think it's I think it's all of the above really Ruffalo. Did a really good job with the character. I don't necessarily agree that that that they're the same. I think there are similarities. That he was able to pick up on. He pulled the best parts of the interpretation brought into this but added more to it. I think we definitely had a grasp on how they make that character work so I think there was a lot of things that were and it wasn't an individual hulk movie. I think it was samba. Piece I think all those things are worked in the hawks favor and making that transition worked so well to go from you know at Norton to mark Ruffalo. Although you know now nowhere here Josh. I have to ask now Mary. F Kill Hulk Edition. Eric Bana Ed Norton Mark Ruffalo Noel. Are we talking about them as Bruce? Banner or as actors. Because I don't think that I would like to engage with any of them in the F. category considering what might happen. That's that's a good valid point. I was mistake characters. But they're all going all out on you in bad ways so I met I marry. I marry them all. I kill none of them and we never have set and it's like big love. I'm Bill Paxton rest in peace. Live Tyler Talk Live Tyler. Because we haven't really Brennan Fitzpatrick not very high. On on live Tyler wonders today of just brought back Jennifer Connelly. There is like the implication and part of the reason why they Yada Yada through the origin. Is that like this movie? Could kind of serve as a sequel to Ang Lee's hulk which is all origin story which I don't know if you went back and revisited before the pilots not me. I'm Phil. Maybe someday not anytime. Soon sophis- Asha should they just brought Jennifer Connelly back as As as Betty. Ross obviously eventually bring Jennifer Connelly into the MC you as she is. She's voice for somebody isn't she? She's the voice of spider-man's. Hey I- spider-man's AI. Because she is a married to Paul Bam So there's there's a fun connection there of them both voicing characters I mean I would have. I really liked Jennifer Connelly. I'm a big Fan of hers So if they had brought her back into this very ecstatic about it. Daniel strunk The great professors strunk wonders. If they should bring back live tyler. We've talked about. They should bring back the tim's Dave brought back general. Ross they have not brought back betty. Ross at all. Is that the better question. Should they just recast Betty Ross? It's bring her back. It's really tough because I really think if they're going to bring betty and you know it's sort of like the situation like Natalie Portman. I think coming back because they're giving Jane Foster more to do in love and thunder in fact. It's picking up a mental so to speak. I think is the right way to do it. Because like the Jane Foster's and the Betty Ross is very much just just weird like your purposes to be the love interest. And you don't really have more beyond that and I think that's a disservice to to character to just have that. So if they do bring the character back. I think they need to have that character. Be More than just I am the love interest in anchor for the male hero So that's that's the way I see that you bring that character back or curve ball. It's not his cousin and she hoped it's betty. She gets a transfusion. Daddy Ross she hulk I mean that could be something you know. That would make a lot of people that probably but Yeah I just feel like if you're going to bring back betty live tyler or not. You just have to do something more with that character because the character deserves it all right well. Let's get into the infinity. Stone Rankings Kevin. Let's let's let's do we've got we've got three orders of business to attend to hear as we are going to start ranking the movies were ranking movies ranked in the villains. We've got multiple villains in this one and we are ranking the post credit scenes as well. I give score on a scale of one to six. I guess some people are going as low as zero so I guess he could feasibly get no infinity. Stones possibility sort of scale of zero to six is what we're going for here for the movies as well as for the villains as well as for the post credits. I give a score. Kevin gives a score audience. You guys write in you. Give your score. Send that to super at post show. Recaps DOT COM. We will tabulate that. We will average listener score. And then we will average my score Kevin score the average listener score for our official everything super score for all of these infinity stone. Rankings that we're doing really quickly west making had written in to know that we're not a rating the main characters themselves. West says that's a good call but West said I do want to come in with take. There are three legend Tier superheroes Superman Batman and spider man. One time maybe. The fantastic four is a group. Maybe that was an argument as one of the X. Men at their height wolverine as an individual had a longer peak the X. Men But even that is fading three legends. That is it. What do you think of that? Take Kevin Drawing agree. I Agree Spiderman disagree. I think I agree. Those are three legends. I think you cannot exclude wonder woman from that. I think Spiderman is very well known. He's been because of media but like wonder woman is known the world over whether or not she'd like before this movie that's a character that has transcended the comics. She is a symbol. And An and just a powerhouse. When it comes to merchandising so I think this excluding wonder woman is is not the right way but I do agree Superman Batman Spiderman through wonder woman in there and and I think we're agreement I also agree with the statement that Wolverine as individuals extremely popular. I think certainly in the comic book world. I don't think he was spiderman or the rest of 'em level at all and I don't think he's still there but you gotta throw wonder woman there. I'm sorry man. All right getting into the ratings getting into the infinity stone rankings for the movies another quick bit of wisdom from the great professor strunk. Who has who has Done this exercise on his own many times. He's he's only done. I've only done this once. A great time traveler quote Daniel. Strunk says one can write an MCSE movie solely based on the content of the movie and nothing else another way to Rayton MC movies to base it on the movie itself and its place in the larger for example. The movie ironman itself might not move people in a top ten fashion but looking at what it does for the MC you as a whole it has to be a top ten. Does that make sense? Ratings or complicated says professor strunk and I wanted to read that here because I think it'll explain my rating for the incredible hulk which I think is a mediocre movie in a bad marvel cinematic universe movie because it may as well not exist anymore. It really has very little bearing on the future of stuff so I think if I was just rating it as a movie on a scale of zero to six it would be much closer to the middle because of its placement in the MC you because there were multiple points whereas like I'm falling asleep starting to lose consciousness I'm giving it a one point. Five pretty low pretty low. I don't expect I'm going to go lower than this. I don't know how bad thor the dark world is. I haven't seen it in a long time. I'M NOT GONNA go this low for iron man two. I cannot imagine and I have the incredible hulk higher than iron man to in my own personal rankings. I had evaluated. I remembered enjoying it watching it the first time and I just have not gone back in Washington a long time. And it's just it's just a very boring movie and it doesn't have any real resonance anymore. So yeah I'm sorry Ed Norton One Point. Five my score. I'm not that far off from you. Honestly I probably would have given it a one point five as well but I ended up bumping into too because of my connection to the original series. I thought again. The references still hit me in a very very fun way and I enjoyed that so I got two point five because of the references. But I'm going to give it a two but that's also rough because I'm still imagining in my head. Thor the dark world being worse. But I definitely think we`re. This was ranked thread third from the bottom. I think you're right though. I think it's going to bump down lower and I think Iran to might be bumping up. I mean we'll find out next week for sure but yeah it's just in a League of its own. Its own class in like the same way like on. I'm not going to say what I was going to say. It's going to take a shot at the edge of extinction again. And I don't need to do that I don't have to do on. Every everything involved is an out. Liar is what I'm trying to send out liar liar. The audience is higher than you and I two point. Four audience going strong on this but then again. They gave a couple of people when as high as fours four for incredible hulk but a lot more in like the one two ish range a couple in the threes. Some as low as a point. Free euro-point three infinity stuns. I know how you I don't know how you shave. The tesseract with the micro plane. 'cause the people also doing like hardcore decimals. I Ki- I. I just can't I'm only doing in points of five. I understand that that we'll see well. Well let's find out when we if we have to make a really tough call with dark world of you know point one difference. Yeah so you gave it a one point. You gave it a two. I gave it a one point. Five audience gives a two point. Four that rounds us out to a one point. Nine eight infinitely sons now white to not quite to infinity. Stones seems official movie rankings as it stands iron man with a four point five nine a very big gap and then the incredible hulk and is currently For the villains and if a movie has multiple we will accept your rankings for them and I would say that. A Thunderbolt Ross counts as hulk villain in this movie. So Thunderbolt Ross is going to be eligible here for points. As is my boy Emil Blonde Scheme. Let's just start with him. I gave him. A to which is why this and it's literally just 'cause like Tim. Roth was one of the very few things keeping me awake on Saturday night as I was watching this movie. I think like the scenes of him running. That's really fun. It's still low. I still think too is probably too high. Just feeling charitable towards meal blinds down movie something. I want to give him that too. I need to give it I with a one. I mean I liked him. Rot those wall there again. I liked the CAP influence but I think as a villain as a character just in a land I think you know if they had delved more into it like I was kind of saying he could have been higher had potential but in this case I gotta go with the one I gotta go to one. Yeah the audience average on this one is a one point nine for a meal blonde so close to mine. I guess and that averages out as one point six four he is anchoring the bottom As a general Ross is going to be ever so slightly above even though I gave General Rosso one in this one just kind of like bad mustache twirling bad guy same. I gave a one as well because he just does nothing. I feel personally original character. Either I just feel like it's kind of Cliche it'd be like I'm the military man and I hate the bad guy or the good guy and it just kind of like. He's only good. Scene is at the end in the post credits scene. When he's wasted hair all like flopped all over the place which I was like wicker's of what is happening there and the audience much higher than you and I on General Rosso only comparatively at two point seven from the audience which gives them a one point. Five six overnight still in the front so it's ob staying General Ross Appeal Blonde Ski. Those are the one to three on our villain rankings as it stands post credits this is obviously not going to be as good as the perfect sixes that we gave. I'll give it to to going to give it a two. I agree I also gave it a two which is saying a lot about this movie when you in iron such a lion agreement. Let's see he's already. J. Are hard to be bad at that and it's exciting. It's exciting but like it's just been five weeks since you've seen them at that point so like how exciting I guess. Just like further reinforcing the interconnectivity of these movies. That's fun but like in terms of continuity doesn't make a ton of sense and also it's technically not a post credits so there's a lot going wrong for it. I mean I think it's I think it's lucky to get a two for. Yeah I mean at the time it's getting a two for one. Dj and too. Because like I want to say at the time it was a little mind blowing to be like. Oh my God. They're doing it. This is a character from this other movie and he is here and so that was kind of big deal so you know it gets a two for that but in terms of the rest of them. Yeah all right. And so it's the audience gave it a two point nine So little higher than you and I that balances out as all things must in this universe to a two point. Three is the incredible hulk post credits scene to Ironman. We've gotten a lot more feedback on the post credit rankings. Because we announced that we were doing that last week a lot of people wrote in with their post credits rankings for Ironman and that averages audience average you and I gave it each six. The audience average with a lot of data in is a five point. Nine yeah it's all it's almost a perfect score of DC it's it gets The cumulative score on everything is super five point nine five so I think that is going to be very difficult to dethrone. Might be King of the ring very early to have that as king of the ring. But it's going to be very tough to top. That can't imagine what's going to be able to do it. There's only one maybe maybe Sharma the storm after a aright Sharma still in the future not on the menu next week but the man who requested the Sharma will be back in action. We'll be talking about iron man once again. We're talking ironman two next week on. Everything is super returning to the Tony. Stark universe a greatly loved but Kevin I watched ironman too and my endgame prep. I had a good time but as my memory of doing it like I just enjoyed spending time with the character and I think I was relishing it because I knew not new but like felt like probably going to die so like I should enjoy all the iron man I can get now that we know that he definitely dies. We just like enjoy spending time with Tony Stark more. I think probably I cannot imagine the score as poorly as an incredible hulk but O'Leary we could be in first surprise next week. Yeah my memory. I Remember Liking Ironman too. I remember vaguely liking this one too. But I feel like who is GONNA end up higher than than than originally thought of. Especially in retrospect compared to the rest of the MC you but even still there's things to like I think performances are gonNA come. Come come to shine. I mean this movie has Sam Rockwell in it so that's a good sign for it. Does yes Adele. Yeah I am. I'm excited to read journey to Tony Stark. Especially knowing he's super dead now so get those get those infinity stone rankings and for us on not just ironman to the movie but also the billions of ironman too. We're talking whiplash which is to make character. Of COURSE WE'RE TALKING. Justin Hammer the Sam Rockwell. Character we want to rankings for both of those characters and we also want your post credit scene rankings and we are going to be recording that episode of the podcast on April twentieth. It's it's going to drop a shortly thereafter So make sure you get that stuff in super post show RECAPS DOT COM by April Twentieth. Would be highly highly useful. Kevin You're you're on the twitter is your at Cana Day. What are you doing? What's going on with you well. I mentioned that I'm working on on site. I kinda. I'm trying to work on personal projects in these off times. It's hard to do so but I'm trying to get a little bit more chase that dream like a seemingly you so we'll see we'll see in the future but for right now just bothered me at kept to see if anything is coming in here. My very very passionate takes on things as a Tweeden Stuff the only dream. I'm chasing these days is living debt. Final fantasy seven remake life. Which we're doing some podcasting about here on post show recaps. They have some final fantasy. Seven podcasting right now Kevin. I know you're playing a game. No spoilers don't talk about it in any kind of heavy detail thumbs up or thumbs down so far. I mean thumbs up on the game itself thumbs down because I have yet to hear. That can't be bad. That sings it. If you've not been paying attention sometimes when he when he kills what for that? That's great bus. Sit Out. It's very good very very so. We've been having fun with that. So keep an ear out for another final fantasy. Podcast coming your way very soon. The loss podcasts continues to fire plus water. Which is by my estimation the worst episode of Lost So. We're GONNA be talking about that this week. That's fun we'll have a great time might blooming myself. The better call. Podcast is happening in Toni. Massaro and are getting very close to the end of the wine on better. Call this season just Lisa and I are talking about killing eve. We started that coverage very recently had a blast talking about the premier. So that's really find the start of an eight week journey so plenty of time to catch up on the killing Eve westworld. Still a thing. Joe Garfield tonight talking about Westworld this week coming up soon. We've yet to record that. Podcast delayed due to to my schedule. Not Joe's so send your angry emails or tweets around Howard totally my fault on that one but given the episode. What are we really busy? I get Shading Shading westworld which normally really like did not love this week. So all of that's happening on poster recap subscribed to push a recaps wherever you get your apps wherever you get your podcast. Wherever you get your apps send me your Mozzarella sticks the APPS that I want tweeted us at push recaps Kevin but should people send you Mozzarella sticks please. I love Mozzarella sticks. I haven't had a good Mozzarella sticks while we're worrying pizzas tonight. I think so. Pretty excited about that meal thrown Mozzarella six. Okay well normally we would probably say like that's the Hashtag of the episode in a post credits scene. I don't think we should do a post credits scene this time since incredible hulk didn't really do want so is technically post credits ending here. Hashtag Mozzarella sticks let us know when world. We're just GONNA like blend in seamlessly with Mozzarella sticks twitter. Excellent I want. I want those fans of Mozzarella Sticks. Come over to this podcast. How I wonder how. Many people are actually deepen in Mozzarella sticks twitter. Or It's actually pretty quiet group. I hope I hope it's A. It's a passionate group. I mean that's how I thought of passion the best lots of things I ever had to say was from this place called Guildhall. They only did it twice like for two nights experiment. But I ran to my dorm. And we chase that dream where it's like Mozzarella sticks wrapped in like the paper like one time paper and bright and it was. It was unbelievable and they did it twice and then they didn't do it ever again. We've just been very depressed about that since you gotTa Chase those. Mozzarella sticks streams. Yeah you gotta you gotTa live towards you gotta you gotTa live towards something that frozen food. You can heat it up. Need it man to let us know if you if you eat mozzarella sticks while watching Ironman to let us know how that goes. I wonder how it Pairs Mozzarella sticks ironman too. So give us that Hashtag Mozzarella sticks and now that we have fully alienated are listenership and everybody has a fully abandoned us at this point. Kevin. I think it's time to play the lonely man theme song to get us out if you take everybody. Goodbye

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