Dirk Nowitzki and the Pyramid (With Marc Stein) | Book of Basketball 2.0
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Oh podcast when you're listening to right now. Now this is chapter five Dirk Nowitzki when I wrote my book in two thousand nine and then the paperback in two thousand ten I had a very specifically specifically formed opinion on this man and then over the course of this decade that opinion changed where talk about that and a lot of other stuff with my old. ESPN piane colleague. Now The New York Times Mark Stein. My Name Is Bill Simmons. This is the book of basketball. Two Point Oh She's a point bask- basketball. Oh It on my podcast back in two thousand eleven Charles. Barkley mentioned mentioned something. He called the Shit List. You know that is Mark Style do not Aka the best guys who never wanNA title Barkley Malone Marino Banks Gervin yeahs Barry Sanders. All names that Barkley learned to dread every time they are grouped together. He called it the shit list and even if it was woefully fair Barclay learn. Take this shit list as something of a compliment after every name on it was great right. That's what he kept telling himself but a piece of it always hurt and he hated seeing other players players face the end of their careers with that shitless guillotine looming. Well who voted the Guillotine Dirk Nowitzki two fashioned eleven a few years before he wore that two thousand six finals collapse in two thousand seven's inconceivable collapse against Golden State. Eight like the pockmarks on Furby the florist beaten down face. What movie the town? Oh clue I wrote shortly after that. That secured his spot on the crap. It's just not in me. All Stars along with Malone Drexler K. J. Elvin Hayes Patrick Ewing Ralph Sampson all those guys. Now he stayed in the latter half of his career. And we can safely say Dirk Nowitzki missed the boat as an Alpha dog actually wrote that. It's a quote from me. Whoops Johnno ahead nineteen ninety-seven rework? Nineteen ninety nine. Two thousand eleven year. He booted himself off the shitless. Now are closing the decade with dark as a level four pyramid guy. Oh Yeah I think he was like thirty nine. When I did my book he played so Goddamn Long? It seems like ten million years ago when he was seven foot German draft sleeper who could allegedly shoot like Larry Bird it seemed preposterous. Noda's ended up being preposterous his career. He's the best ever foreign. Mba Point not name Akeem. He's he's the best year ever. He's the fifth best forward ever behind. Lebron Duncan and durant not quick enough for Mount Rushmore. But better than Elgin Doc. Pettit Barkley. Everyone else you want an MVP. He won a finals. MVP He made four first-team Ambi- as and four second teams. He won fifty plus Games for for eleven straight years games. That you covered. That's why you're so happy right now. He tops sixty wins. Three times may two finals. He beat Lebron and Wade in the finals. He went to game seven. Seven in San Antonio during Dunkin's prime along with petted Hakeem in Elgin. He's one of four players in the shot clock era who averaged twenty five and ten for their playoff career career. Twenty five ten years always every time offs. And he's a famously fantastic locker room guy. Insane hard worker and someone who by all accounts. Everyone loves playing with it every point of his career. We're GONNA talk about that current a second with Mark Stein. He's also a member one of my favorite lists the fifteen year club. You know that you're hitting me with all kinds of categories. I didn't know about I make all these up the only six NBA players who spent their entire careers with the same franchise played at least fifteen seasons and one at least one title. Here's the entire list. The off Shays. How greer John Havlicek Kobe Bryant? Tim Duncan Dirk Nowitzki. And unless Miller in Stockton aren't on the list title. MSF CRAIG GETS there. That's the whole list. Probably for the rest of our lives. Six Hall of Famers There's twenty rings combined. Think about that list means excellent durability longevity loyalty championships the unwavering affection of entire city your best case scenario for basketball career and it's certainly better than Barclays Shit List. You'll get this reference which just said they're crawled out of five hundred yards of shit smelling melling. Found us the likes of which I can't imagine and came out clean on the other side. Dirk Nowitzki we're talking about a mark. Stein is here currently works for the New York Times I worked to the media's pin and you covered dirt for his entire career twenty one years. I don't think it ever happens again in less curry as it because I you know we've talked about this all summer but the power Manera. I just don't think matters to guys in the same way anymore. They matter to him. It really did not and I think is he got deeper and closer to it because Look Ki Ki. It's a weird thing. He never had a traditional agent. There were free agencies when GM's would contact me and ask me. We want to go after Dirk. Fred how do we go after him. We don't have an agent. We'd have a number we don't we we need to know. We don't even know who to call so that that happened. But then then there were feelers. That did reach him late in his career and he had he had chances to go elsewhere and he just he couldn't bear the thought of it. He loves being a one team guy but even he would tell you if he he was sitting here. If I don't win that championship do I feel that way. Do I do I stick it out for another eight nine years with no championship and I think the answer is probably no so that two thousand eleven title which happens really at the Taylor has prime. It says last great year in every respect it changes the course of Howard remembered him. It vaults awesome into a A. I finished my book in two thousand. Nine hundred pared back in two thousand ten had kind of written off Dirk mentally. It was like I mentioned thirty nine. He was is in them like the High Thirties. And it was just like Oh man yeah well he won that one. MVP But then he kind of just didn't have it and then it all flips and that one postseason and then on top of it he never had to go chase the title so he accomplices double thing. He changes his legacy Wednesday title but then he doesn't have to leave Dallas. Because I think if they don't win that year he will he would have chased it at some point. I know you're trustee media critic brand curtis wants to fight me on this one. WHO's bigger cowboy than him? I'm sticking by it I love it doubling down. Who is who is the one now? There's the cowboys have been so great and so big for so long long. There are ten pantheon cowboys. Who is the one cowboy? You can put ahead of him. I'm saying there isn't one so your case for this is basically a timber says Roger Starbuck or him versus Emmett Smith and or him versus choice both have teenage kids. My teenage kids have lived in Dallas their whole lives. You think they have a whiff of WHO Roger Staubach is. Yeah they don't know so then Aikman didn't play quite long enough. Look and look I you know I am no NFL expert. I'm probably not qualified to start going through the cases of all the different cowboys. But you I want to know who is the one cowboy that they can put over Dirk Nowitzki and I'm GONNA say there isn't one there is not we grew up we were kids landry and Staubach were massive. And that's when I was still oh following the NFL. But I'm I'm sorry they have not carried it on in the modern era So I guess the case it'd be who's the most beloved and who have like when they're seventy five years old is still getting a standing ovation. Twenty one years one team and and look the cowboys have always been great. They've been a powerhouse forever. Yeah the team Lebron. He put the babs on the map. There's nobody there's no one cowboy who can match what he did in Dallas so during that two thousand eleven playoff run. When did you think it was actually possible? They could win the title. Because we're talking about losing ran WANNA know seven. Oh eight Oh nine. We're going to talk about all these little checkpoints he hits but at some point we all kind of give up on this happening and then in those playoffs he goes to another level Oklahoma City. He was so good it was the best he's ever played. Really you think the best I would put it right there with with San Antonio. Oh six okay he was I remember. I The guy that I talked about this with the most with story which let's not forget at his peak pages pages. Steak was a damn good player. Yeah twenty-five elites and knows what it's like to be in the Novitski position. He was a role player at that point but he was watching Dirk in awe. And just saying I. I cannot believe the stratosphere that Dirk has gone to in that Oklahoma City series. I mean that Oklahoma City team was a handful and he shredded them. Yeah but even after that they're going up against Miami and I don't even think they believed like they just looked. You looked at that Miami roster and yes. It was year one but it's like they've got the heat they've got. Lebron Wade is already driven driven the dagger into their heart. No six. I don't think they really thought they could beat the team. I picked the mavs to win that series eating Haber. You didn't feel it. I don't know that I believed did so. Those three games so three four and five are in Dallas and game three. Yeah Wade is incredible. Edible and Wade Wins Game Three Dallas comes back they win game four and they break. Lebron this is the worst game of Lebron slave. They've actually actually like break is brain. They're doing all term. Like how could we even think that that could happen. You know what's interesting game. Six recently and I realized how they did it it was it was more a case of just how basketball is being played. They didn't realize had space it for him so when they were just collapsed on him every time he tried drive the basket but their offense wasn't sophisticated enough to just have shooters and every spot and he just couldn't solve it and then they they when they started fucking with them and putting like you know. Jj bullied through them. And just like you know. Listen strongly though. Yeah you know he just. He couldn't didn't have the low post gaming entrust it and and he didn't have the shooter's around him and they had chandler. Oh is there with his hands. Up and Sean Aaron who is still the best that they had the mass at a great group role players. I and the reality is in Dirks twenty one years no sidekick ever fit in better than Chancellor Chandler was the perfect guy. All defense go all in self at twice. Yeah all just. He was the perfect Tyson at his peak. Was the perfect match for Dirk and that. That's what's so funny is when they first got what Chandler. I don't even think they believe that. I think damp here. They were still like oh we got dampier in Chandler. It's going to be a two headed monster. Tyson was way better than they than they even realized. Where did dirt go after they won the title? He just. He's basically sprinted off the floor. Did he go to fly you ED. I thought you meant now summer. Yes so he so they had the it's one of the weirdest reactions. Ever they win. Everybody's hugging they had jumps over the table and they have the luxury of no the last few minutes they were they were GonNa win it. He felt the tears coming on and what happened was when they qualified for the Olympics. A few years before same thing happened he he totally lost it. It was all on camera. He was embarrassed. Oh this was away and they had to do. It was like last chance qualified for the Olympics. I was not there but I've just heard the stories totally lost his head bald head off hated. Everybody thought so he felt it come on again. And he's like people aren't GonNa see this. Wow so he just it said. I'm walking off the court steps over the scores table and just heads down the little. If you've been in Miami just heads down the hallway to the visitor's locker room and Scott Tomlin for maps. Pr Who's one of his closest friends. And Tim Frank from the League they both chased after him and found him basically in the shower crying and they were like you gotta come here to solve Tim. Frank was like you know. GotTa come out here. League protocol all his stuff. I think what it really was though Scott Tomlin again one of his his closest friends told him like come on man. You'RE GONNA WANNA be in these pictures for the rest of your life. You'RE GONNA want to see the picture of you. Whiting the trophy. So he pulled it together and he he got out there well. His resumes incredible. I'm GONNA use the word incredible a couple of times during this podcast but is one of the things you you know. He was great. But then when you actually put the stuff down on paper I was kind of like shit is it. May Maybe Seventeenth in the pyramid. Now maybe that's too low twenty one years thirteen quality fourteen all stars Sixth the sixth time by the way for most all star appearances thirty. One thousand five hundred sixty points. That's the one I think that shocks him but three thousand six hundred sixty three playoff points if you add those together. He's in the thirty five K.. Point Club which is basically just him and Jordan and probably Kobe. I don't keep you more than three people. Here's a weird one regular season. He passed ten thousand offensive rebounds. He seventh all time. Ten Two thousand twenty one defense part of the story that he was never a good defender but he was he was a decent team defender and he became. He was an elite defensive. rebounder rounder for a stretch. Yeah he was somebody who could get seventeen rebounds in a big game which I think nobody thinks of him that way you know you would average eight or nine in big games. He could get him he. He Played One thousand five hundred twenty two regular season games third all time. He played fifty one thousand three hundred sixty eight minutes third all time eleventh in threes threes. You must made it to two thousand. Three's but seventh and free throws made which is like crazy He was nineteenth all time in free. Throw percentage edges basically like all little white guys like him and Steph Curry and in wind shares hundred forty three point eight four all. MBA's five-second teams. It's three thirty teams. he was top five four to five years. Oh five Oh six oh seven or nine two thousand eleven finals. Mvp Twenty seven almost fifty forty ninety forty nine percent forty six percent for ninety four percent from the line nine free throws attempts to game twenty five point two pr our He was also the best part of finals runner up and six his oh seven. VP season which is shredded. We're GONNA get to is actually now underrated. He's fifty forty forty nine for the whole year. Twenty five nine. They went six games started. Oh and four one sixty seven yeah three year peak twenty six nine fifty one forty one eighty nine and so he almost did fifty forty ninety three straight years ten straight twenty two and eight seasons and then the playoffs we mentioned Twenty five and ten forty six thirty seven eighty nine for splits. Twenty three point eight PM. Let's not forget for half of that. He was a choker. Couldn't get it done. Yeah during the two thousand nine playoffs. There's this moment where Barkley and Kenny and Chris Webber it was something about. He credited the defense in Denver on a last shot and it went to the post game show and this was on. Barkley was throwing a hundred miles. An hour is just must watch every show and they just kill them and they were like he's not a leader dirt. That's not somebody who can ever win title when you say stuff like that and just did this deep dive on Dirk and just basically wrote them off. Do you think dirk even knew about that. I've never talked to him about it. I'm going to guess. Yes because the dude watches avidly. He's not like a voracious reader. Yeah but I mean you think you read the basketball He did not reviewable basketball. I guess he's out of twenty one years. You may be read five on my stories on. There's like he's not he's not going to read it but watching the NBA on TV. I mean this is your classic. I'M GONNA play a game and go home and watch. NBA ATV and West Coast Games all night. So I think curry's like that too. I'm guessing he sought and he was aware of it and chuck stir loves him. You know he and Barkley go way way back so I'm sure it hurt on some level but he was always honest he's just an he was given too much credit to the dee. And what's so funny. I always we say this and people think I'm crazy. Go back and look at the. Oh nine postseason that's when his personal life unraveled in a very public and unfunny fashion. He played on one of the worst maps teams. He ever had around worst supporting cast his numbers in that Denver series. I want. I'm doing it off the top of my head. He shot like fifty five percent from on the field average like thirty six and fourteen on a horrendous mavs team again that Denver frontline that was the year they went to the conference five K. Mart Sanders. They they were really. They had a just bee's all on their front line and that was their only that was the only melting went to the conference finals. I thought that was a really Denver. To played played. Incredible in that series especially with everything going on in his personal life and I can't believe that that was the time they decided that just tear them. A new one was was just so people don't know he he was dating somebody who turned out to be kind of duping months ago me. She was arrested went to jail. I mean it was the same. She was pregnant league He played through that cloud. Like I said if you check the stats from the playoffs. He was superlative. It might have been one of his. It was a short plan. Afrin was only second round but he played as well in those places he ever did to put a bow on this two thousand eleven thing I had him on my podcast all Star Week in two thousand twelve. I I think it was this year. After the he one is pretty good get. He's not a podcast. It was one of those fifteen minute thing. Is You know where it was like they would just just funnel I had an. ESPN thing they would funnel people through that. Did when you talk about like the weight of your way to the world being off somebody's shoulders. You honestly honestly feel it when you talk to him. He just seemed just so happy could not give a shit about anything was still living off the fumes of the title. I think he probably celebrated all all summer. I really don't know of anybody ever enjoyed a title more than he did that. Two thousand eleven because I think he understood the significance of it he didn't WanNA end up. Apply the Malone Mbarga eating one and up in that shit listening you know hit Nash. His soulmate his sidekick ray now steve is a remarkably. We well rounded person who does not sit around obsessing about what ifs but like Nash would have been the same way a title for him just would have been even so huge but for Dirk even more so I think just because again dirk is you know. Nash has so many other life pursuits yet. When Nash Sits there and tells you I don't sit around crying crying about what we didn't get done in Phoenix? You believe him. He's moved on. He lives his life. He doesn't wallow in the fact that he doesn't have the ring but dirks a basketball guy. He's a twenty four seven seven. Who Guy so in the? I just finished my twenty-six season in all that time except maybe malone would have been that way but like to get a title. I can't imagine it. Impacting one person in my time being around the game like it did for him and like you said he's a top fifteen player now or right right there and he without the title he's not this. NBA Season Mountain. Dew is all about the threes. The Shatt that's changing the game. Which is why we bring you a special segment and beyond the three point presented by mountain dew? Little fact about Dirk Nowitzki never took four hundred threes in a season. Two Three Ninety twice waste in two thousand one and two thousand three think about him in two thousand twenty. How many three sued had taken? I'M GONNA get it would have been about eight hundred eight fifty something like that. He missed his calling. That was beyond the three point brought to you by mountain dew the official beverage of the NBA do the do. Meanwhile Square makes that little way reader. That leads anyone take credit cards but rain grow business take so much more than payments which is why square build so many tools that can help like point of sale software invoices. You can said from your phone as easy to build a websites and access to business loans to help you manage your cashflow. Purchase new equipment. Whatever you need to do to grow Oh your business? Their payments are the best. No complicated contracts or weird Vezio is get your money fast. Even instantly the best part all these tools are in one one place in their ability to work together so with yourself stuff on instagram with your own restaurant. Whatever square has tools for you? See All the way square. Could take your business business from square one to whatever's next at square dot com slash go slash B. S. loans subject to credit approval issued by Celtic Bank member. FD I see five things you need to know about Dirk Nowitzki stuff already mentioned number. One is the greatest European basketball player ever and you could argue the distance between him and the next guys are more like a chasm. I here's my top five dirt Parker Genova Jaanus and POW for. Did you just making a team. It's a pretty good team by the way Parker Point Guard Ginobili Durkin. Yana says my forwards and then powered by Scott the rich there some see you wanna bump Petritsch for Manu. Make me into the six men. Okay if I'm allowed to have a man than he makes six six man This is crucial and the the other tough one is. We didn't see some bonus and every who saw just green easily says. Here's the thing thing though. We're seeing them now. He just plays Denver as Nikolay. Yokich offense with a very similar It the euro thing is important though because when he he comes into the League. There's a bias against you know quest years or soft came in Dallas. They did not want him the like it was not not a well received pick. You don't think Dallas wanted remember the fans that fans. I mean they're in like it was not well received pick and the reason was it. You Know Don Nelson and Donny hadn't been there long enough for there to be you know huge outrage because they they'd only been there a couple years but the mavs had a horrible draft draft history. They've had an even worse history in terms of the lottery. The mavs always do they always fall to their lowest possible point in the lottery and Pierce was on the aboard and they never thought Pierce was going to be on the board and Don Nelson himself when Pierce got the mavs Nellie was like he turned to his son and said hey think we audible here and go pierce and donny was like nope. We locked into the sky. We made a promise we are taking Novitsky and the Celtics would have taken dirk the Celtics at the lottery. The Celtics were the only only other team that got an interview with Dir. Patino famously arranged this clandestine workout. In Europe Novitsky played the Hoop Summit here in ninety eight San Antonio goes nuts shuts down. Everybody knows about him now he would not grant any other team any access the Celtics. We should talk about that Nike. I was going to bring up later but it's important. This is still early early Internet. You can't even barely google anything. You certainly don't have eight years away from youtube soup. And we hear these rumors about this amazing Nike Hoop thing. And you're just taking everyone's word. My Dad and I are in Boston. Celtics had the tenth pick have a chance to get this guy. He's allegedly a little lake. Larry Bird in all we're doing is living off the rumor of this incredible again the game was on. ESPN but that that's how you couldn't you couldn't even headed after that out. It was twenty like that's what I was. Imagine if that was now. Oh I think I'm the German kid yeah showed up and lit up all the Americans for thirty five. Oh he would've gone top three because we would had this game. Look I'm like Oh shit look at this guy so the first part the crazy part is he's playing for his German team there in the second division division. They're in the playoffs to go up to the first division. He had to bail on his team to play in the Nike Hoop Summit. So this is his hometown team. He and his shot grew Hogan vintner. They sneak out of their many good pronunciation middle of the night. I've had some practice. They sneak out in the middle of night. Come to the states. They're a day late to the hoop summit. They show up. They joined the team. The mavs these practices are happening in the in what was then the mavs practice facility. Yeah so the mavs are basically getting illegal viewing of. I don't think I'd be going nuts in practice. This you know the mavs there. You know falling Donnie. Nelson's melting down watching this seven foot guy move and shoot then the game comes and of of course I'm just GonNa give you you. Tell me what you think. The mass tried to do the game. The games coming. What do you think was the mavs Zan? Oh probably do like power outage know Dirk. Don't plan the came. Don't play in the game. Of course he plays in the Game Games on TV. It's at the final. Four Dirk goes nuts. Scores was thirty three and fourteen. So whatever it was so now everybody knows about him. Secrets out. Because the MAS- were the mavs. The mavs were sold from the first practice. They saw him they were in. They were like weird. Whatever we have to do to get this guy? We're in But then they had to sweat out the next three months and yet it's totally because there was you know you had that game all the to all all the teams had tape of the game. I Remember Bird I. I'm pretty sure bird told Jackie macmullan. There's a quote there something like bird said if you would have seen this game you would think this guy is going to be the best player. But that's all teams had. He wouldn't interview with anybody and that was it. The Celtics were your Pitino was able to get this secret meeting in Italy. And that was it. So you said Does an actual quote from mark. Stein Oh God. Let's hope it was good. He didn't really talk about it at the time but he definitely said years later that he gave real thought to going back to Europe after the first year because his first year as miserable as strike season fifty games. Yeah so so this is where this is where my relationship covering him started the lockout so the mavs draft him lockout hits they beg him come to Dallas says okay. I'll come to Dallas. But now it's the lockout so he keeps playing for his German team. They got promoted even though he missed one of the Promotion Games they got promoted there in the first division vision. Now he's happy. He's playing for his hometown team. In Germany there a first division team. The lockouts going on I make my annual soccer trip to England in September ember and I'm at the Dallas Morning News said Hey guys. Dallas Era Meant Manchester to Frankfurt is just like Dallas to New York. Send me for a weekend. Go Watch this guy so I went to Germany. Met Him watched him play to gain yours. I only media member. Who had seen him? I think I'm the only person besides the Nelson's who had really seen in play at this point because I saw him play two games. One of them was a road. Game drove three hours each way on the Audubon with holder my first audubon experience with holger. Auger go meet his parents but he's he was rooting for the season to be wiped out. He wasn't ready to come here at nineteen. He wanted to spend that whole season in in in Germany and then he's told the story. This is my story. He's told he was watching CNN. He's like Oh shit lockouts over. I gotta go now. Oh I gotta go so and remember no training camp. Yeah no summer league and then the worst schedule three and three nights. So it's him and Nash and Nash. They would have these pickup games right before the lockout ended they were having these pickup Game Dallas. Nash went to the WHO got slammed and landed on his back. Played that whole season with a fracture in his back. They didn't realize 'til after this season so nash played that whole first year hurt. Dirk is coming from another planet. They were both just crush and the teams getting sold right. Cuban buys sold. That was ninety nine. The team was sold a year later. Yeah Dirk that first year you know. Nellie gave me a great scoop back in the days. When scoops were actually newspapers Dirk Nowitzki will a win? Rookie of the year gave that to me as bad. So that put the Bulls eye on him. He was taken out of the starting lineup. He wasn't ready He. Just it's one one thing to jump from Italy or or you know. A top league in Europe at the time like petrol-rich played at the highest highest highest levels of Europe and he had trouble when he came over here dirk played in nothing higher than the German First Division that was not elite European basketball and that first year was awful and he. He was homesick. I think Nash pulled him through it. Honestly Nash was getting even more heat. That probably helped dirk. If you if you remember there was a game. Nash got booed at Reunion. Union arena. He shot like over eight from the field against the Charles. Barkley led rockets and Barkley went off on vans for booing Nash. So in that first year was it was bad really really bad. Second thing you need to know about Dirk as we said earlier didn't have time to help only played with four all stars got an even counted up. That's thought you mean four like current when they they were actually on the on an all star that was on his team. Kid Nash Finley Josh. Our he never played with a hall of Famer during that players. Prime Nash technically his. It wasn't his kid had already been cade so on it's on The only of this decade to win the finals of that another all star and his team Kawhi he had caught. Larry I think was on the team. and dirt not far from it the dirt Nash Connection. We're going to go into a little bit more later but You were there those first six years. They're thin and say a lot was kind of quiet guy. Quiet German Guy Said some weird peccadilloes. Nash just adopted him. Nash adopted him for minute. Want I mean honestly. He doesn't make it probably without Steve. Steve ran his life back. Then right they live near in the same apartment complex and basically you know not national just one of those people who just like he's just got this. This charisma every city you go to. He's got ten best friends. That's the kind of Canadian he made. Dirk to all that they get to Milwaukee Nashville Ashby. Like okay we're going to meet so. And so and so on wherever it was he dragged dirk everywhere otherwise dirks probably sitting in a hotel room that whole first year being even more miserable trouble so like it's pretty remarkable again. If you go back and look at how Nash Shot Way under forty percent from the floor that first year playing with a number they had just traded traded for him and deal contract and it seemed like a bus played her for everything he was going through. That was. That's like as classic. Nash Stories there is he. He spent that whole first year worrying about Novitsky when he was miles from having solidified his own future amazing third thing dirt's decade-long peak. DOC was a two to eleven. He averaged twenty four and a half points. Eight point eight rebounds and came really close to create an a ten year fifty forty ninety club whose forty eight thirty nine eighty nine for a decade I think we just talk about as offensive games really quick and you could see it really. Oh six was when he put together he could he could take the Dunkin Cagey guys and bring them out twenty five feet from the hoop and then go buy them or it could beat him off the dribble. If you put the Boeing Raja Bell type guys on 'em he could bring him down in either post them up or post them up at the Fallon and the thing he did especially he started doing no sex. He wasn't shooting. Well put backs free throws and just he would just figure figure out how to say those points. It did take a little longer like he was he. He showed glimpses of that stuff. You know six seven but in the play offs has la- bugged Doug Monroe six big time seven that warrior team with all your Jackson's your Al Harrington's like by the time eleven came around and this was another thing pays in. I would talk about all the time by eleven. He was a surgeon that was when he didn't have of the youth anymore but there was nothing you could throw at him that he didn't know how to counter at that point when he was different. If you if you want like oh six. Oh six San Antonio series I have to say that was the best series of his life even better than Oklahoma City but in the Miami series in the finals to me when I watch it back he looks rush like he's rushing has lem was bothering him like I do. I feel like he was later he was he was even better later later. I remember you know. Go seemed they play the clippers. Probably twice a year. Now go see him in person and somewhere two thousand ten two thousand eleven. It was like he kept refining that foul line that little step back shot were. He put his knee in in the guys balls and over the course of six years. He just kept perfecting and tweaking tweaking like a golf swing and then eleven it was like that's not stoppable anymore. If you would almost like you had to stop them before. He got the ball but once he got. The ball was unstoppable. You'd either sent a second guy at him or whatever but the the angle that he was able to create by bending back and then the way he shot the ball it was lockable and that was his. You know it's funny because I think it's one of the five greatest shots ever holger. Begged him for years. Let's learn let's the hook shot. He was like that's the missing piece. GimMe the hook shot. Let's let's get the hook shot and then nobody can touch you and he didn't mess with it now. I was never. There was always in Germany in the lab but he just said he never got to the point that he was comfortable doing in games so the though the one tim McMahon calls it the one legged step back whatever term you want to use that he just kind of invented when he got older and that and yeah and I think the biggest compliment name is. How many of the the durant Lebron's these got Kobe's guys all shot it after Kinda? He started it and so that is I think it's one of the five gray headshots. I think this Guy Hook is still the greatest shot of all time. Oh never be approached. That's the one I I can't understand why the hook shot is seen as easy well especially the away Korean data whereas hand was ten feet over the basket like you could. You could learn this in a couple we have like. If Dirk Nowitzki can't learn the hook shot that tells you something watching Kareem Kareem. How you just put it up and just flick? Yeah he would like hold it there. He is that's amazing. Shot the fourth thing you need to know about their Theo Theo. Six finals was an officiating. Travesty that robbed him of his in his prime celebration lap Even worse the so the big picture and I wrote about this at the time this was the NBA crossroads between this era where the League got away from itself. The late nineties nineties early two thousands where it's a just a lot of one on one hero ball and really physical and slow and just dump it down to somebody and everybody staying around and watch them versus the way the sons were playing in the mavs. They're trying to play and it was this crisis of style. I wrote before the two thousand six finals for your beloved. ESPN DOT COM CO workers. I can't believe I wrote this. This is actually kind of amazing so I wrote this before the finals. No team depends depends on the refs quite like the heat when the reps are calling all the bumps on shack and protecting wait on every drive. Their unstoppable when they're calling everything fairly. They're eminently eminently beatable and if they're not getting 'cause they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging. Two Games at Miami's favor during the series possibly three three. In fact I'm already depressed about it in the series hasn't even started yet. I wrote that before the final that was the script they were using. I just can't I can't believe it. The officiating was horrific. It was horrific and to this day. I'm I'm just going to say that you're good. Buddy Eddie. Mark Cuban I. I still don't think he's over it because we were just we were just in Miami for for Novitsky last game in March and he made. I can't remember exactly what he said. But let's just whatever the comment was it made made it clear that he has not forgotten. Oh six but the mavs did it to themselves they did. I mean they still should have won that series. They you know that's like the king. Same thing he was self inflicted you also was not their fault but it was also funded I e just you can't you can't give them a total pass because they should've it was game was a game. I mean game. Three they were what was that they were up thirteen three. They choked. Yeah three he was about to be asleep. Here's what I wrote during the series. Nothing against Wade after all it is in his. His team sucks and he has to play this way. But seeing a an individual a triumph over team yet again would raise every positive outcome from the Oh six season basically the team with the Bronner Wade will in the next ten or twelve titles had never do there'd be together And it will come down to which made more 20-footers with two guys on him in which I got most cheap calls for the most spineless referees. That's not basketball. It's a star system system if Miami wins as well go back to box haircuts again so on and so on and I said I've made a Vince McMahon joke that was after after the COM. Cuban member had that blog. Maverick thing and he posted the link with the Headland Bill. Simmons's by new hero. And then he said I never have to say where it again bill. Simmons is one of the nineteen diehard says it all. It's nice to know there are people who pay attention. Thank you bill. After I just ripped the refs for four thousand words I agree with you. I don't think he's ever gotten over that final. I'm telling you I can't remember the exact words but we were just standing there and he just made some little comment that well what was after game five live when he went to court and yelled at Stern. Your League is rigged your is rigged. Wasn't that what he said. Yeah I mean it was so bad that that summer they he was. I'm selling the team. You know yeah it was. It was unreal that sucked but it turned out. Two thousand seven came around I just wanted to mention that fifteen. You need it's no dirk. beat the following guys. plasters Karl Malone. Kevin Garnett Rasheed Wallace Chris. Webber McGrady out together Doug Twice Nash. Koby Obi durant and Russell together and Lebron and Wade together now is in a eleven season. Run two thousand three was the great injury. What if if if this career and a really fascinating playoffs in general where San Antonio Wins Duncan was incredible But you also have Sacramento and Dallas their fans looking back on. faulk like douse Turcotte's hurt in the Western finals else. Webber got hurt around before the house gets by him. Circuits heard after three games or during game three and there's something wrong with his knee during game. Three Cuban wants to play them Dan Nelson says fuck. Now we're playing them. That's that was. That was the genesis of there. That was the the end for the two of them that was the Genesis Dirk is soft bird would've played. It's so interesting because I've asked I've asked her Kevin Durant thing again vaster twenty five times and he says now we made the right call. I wasn't ready so what was wrong. He had like a he it was you know He. He warmed up he he gave it a try and Cuban wanted to play him. The word was the doctors. Were okay within plan and Nelly just said. He's not plan Dan. He's our franchisees our future we're not risking it. He's not playing now Nelly who always took heat for. He's great as the underdog he's not good as the favourite a lot of people thought he doesn't want dirk to play because he wants the excuse if he doesn't win this series Cuban wanted him to play. Nellie you and it's amazing you know. Everyone thinks you know Cuban this you Nellie overruled him any let Nellie make the call but to this. I mean I've I've ah I've had no vaster ten times. He has never once said I should have played in that game. He'll say I felt it sitting on the bench. You know maybe I could have played seven but I don't think I could've come back unless we made the finals. He says it was the right call so I know someone's like yeah he's playing. Let's talk about drink. 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When you sign up at Luminary downlink slash basketball? After that. It's only seventy nine per month. Cancel cancel anytime. Terms apply. Next category is what's age the best we talked about how the two thousand eleven transformed his personality. It it I wouldn't say at transforming weight off I would just say we got to see it and he got but he was always. He's not fun guy but like I think he was just reluctant to show it but the lat he wanted eleven kept playing through. Nineteen these last eight years and ain't been a picnic. I mean it's true. It was the most fun decade but I think he I he had the attitude of like. I just want to retire here. I mean I'm not saying they didn't hurt but I mean he was. It made sure he would never leave. I'll give you that that that's one of the great. What if they don't win in eleven? Where does he go because I think he would have? He's too competitive to to not be an title situation. So that's kind of it'd been the Golden State would have been one of those another. What's age the best? The Legend of the Ninety Eight hoops summit which I've still never seen a cup of but in my head. He's he's making shots with his dad. The thing is it's not. It was a lot of a lot of free throws in those thirty three points but the thing was you saw that thing. We all remember the last few years. When he couldn't move he could run the floor? Yes pretty damn athletic. I agree back then. And then you ever dial up some clips with Nash and him on the break he could finish. We don't think of him that way because we you know he was immobile the last couple years but in his day the boy could move a little bit. I have that as another would say. He's the best I feel this way about durant to it was different to see those guys in person because they're seven feet tall and they're moving late. They're six foot four in the shooting like they're six foot three. Don't you saw them in person. You're like Jesus my a member of this species durant is dirk with athleticism. That's that's why he is literally jaw-dropping and we've never seen a player like him. But it's it's interesting that early in durant evolution Adam Harrington who played with the mavs for about five minutes. I don't even remember what season it was barely played with the mavs but stayed there long enough to become friends with Dirk and Nash and Holger Gotcha and when Harrington got out of the NBA. He went to Germany played in Germany. Learned all of whole trained under holger when he got to Oklahoma Llama. City is an assistant coach. He started doing the dirk routine durant and now they're reunited with the Nets Harrington's on that coaching staff but in Oklahoma City durant was doing a modified version of the. You know the whole Novitsky workout. Which I'm sure you've seen that makes the clips of clips? Oh One more would stage the best and I can't believe I'm saying this because I ripped it in my basketball book ten years ago but the the O seven. MVP is actually aged pretty pretty well. Now that we know more about advanced metrics he was twenty five and nine fifty forty to ninety from for Percentage Butts Twenty any seven point six. Pr Sixteen Point Three win. Shares sixty one percent true shooting and the team won sixty six games and they were the best team in the league. It wasn't listen his best like most splashy points rebound season. But I think with how we who did you vote for I her. I didn't Oh that I didn't have a vote yet. But that was I gave it to the fans because it was such a bad season the fans people got so mad they thought it was a cop out. It should have been nashes for that. I thought that should have been nashes. MVP areas earned up. But I didn't think he deserved. Oh five oh six. I'm like I actually think he might deserve IRV this year. but yeah. I think that one's age pretty well. I'm okay with that. MVP now I mean they won six. It's not just that they want sixty seven game. They lost in the most. I painfully fashion and came back. Oh and four and then ambush the Lisa. You thought they were done after finals right. That they're gonNA Creator I. I didn't see I didn't see a sixty seven win team. I mean that was a that lost left more than a mark. Now what's age the worst Dirks Dirk swoon. As a Franchise Guy Oh eight Oh nine two thousand ten which we talked about a little bit where people people kind of gave up on him after that. MVP sees as a potential top three guy in the league. I think he was just Kinda over here. Kind of we shoved them aside and and That was stupid. In retrospect because as you said his team just was not that good and he was still putting upgrade stats But anyway I wanted to mentioned that and then the one thousand nine hundred draft just gotTa go through it Really Quick Michael Although a Candy Pick Meghan McCain who was twenty four I mean think about that twenty. Four Dirk was not a good pick for your quick Mike Clips Mike baby went. Second Rafe. La France went third so this was right around the time. My Dad and I are starting to look at each other. Because the celts have ten I would did a draft. I refer mode said at the time. We're like Karan's Paul Pierce whose Senecas Antoine Jamison Vince. Carter and then they get flipped. Dallas takes Robert Traylor six. We just assume they're taking taking pop pairs so now I am. We're watching in my dad's TV room at his house and he has this little computer room in the next room. I'm MM sprinting over the computer room. Googling Paul Pierce cocaine like we just assume McKee deserves some drug problem. Is there some. What's the story? Can't figure it it out Jason Williams go seven to Sacramento. Then Larry Phillies up eight. Of course they're gonNA take Paul Pierce they're gonNA put him with. Alan Alan Iverson. I can't believe I can't believe there could be a pop ears. And they'd take Larry he is so now we're sitting there going in my dad wanted to. Let's get the whole time. Because he read one thing about how he's the next bird says I'll let the German birds and now it's like German bird or Paul Pierce who who may have killed somebody and it just has been out. shedder has a heroin problem. We have no idea would happen. Can't lose the self can't lose. Can't lose in the moment kinda rooting for German bird. 'cause you know how much I love Larry Bird goes night to Milwaukee Milwaukee flips picks. Pierce goes tenth. I don't know what's it's crazier. That nuits game pierce go nine and ten or the Dallas past nuits kids six and took Robert Traylor pre-arranged deal but how does that make any. They had total confidence. That and again it is so what if somebody had moved up to eight and just taken convert trailers insane. What was he doing? It was it was a different time. I mean next category is too early to later. Just right I gotta say I feel like just right as the answer frame for when he came into the League. I think it all worked out pretty well see I think he changed it because when he came into the League. Who are your prototype force Karl Malone Juwan Howard where the guys physical? That was the position Shen. He changed it which is why it's just right. He comes in he he institutes changed. I guess yeah the you know it has to be just right in terms of they have to be people ought to be willing to change but it didn't. It did not feel just right at the beginning. So here's the case for. He came too early. Just think if he's twenty two who right now with the way we play basketball like first of all you take ten three pointers again. But actually maybe than the other parts of his game suffer a little bit more now as I think he would have been a five if in the way they play basketball. Now right there's if he could guard it. Ns Daisy E. Could Yeah nerd corner. I've another stupid club for you. The forty seven eight thirty seven eighty seven club for percentage twits only eight guys ever have shot forty seven percent thirty seven percent from three eighty seven percent from the line. Larry Bird Jefferson K.. D. Steve Nash Mark Price. Jose Calderon runs Turkey. Jose Reggie Miller is turned the PUNCHBOWL. Here's my retroactively hottest take. They've written this some stealing for myself. I think Dirk Two thousand eleven title is actually the best thing for the case for Carmelo. Anthony who is now just being shit on left and right by everybody and everybody's just dismissed dismissed his career completely. I think Dirk proved that you can win the title with an awesome forward who might be the greatest defender who can shoot twenty twenty five times a game and that's kind of your guy if you Carmelo two thousand and Carmelo on the the two thousand eleven maps with the infrastructure they had that would have given him a better chance to succeed. I think the genius of that eleven maths team whether how intentional was or not is it was like the perfect team to play with Dirk. They actually figured out a model like we have this asset. How do we make this succeed? I I agree with all that accept and I think I think dirk would back me up on this. It was just the beginning of the Super Team era and I think deep deep down in his heart he knows they wouldn't have been good enough and like the bar got raised the heat now Lebron and Wade they found their are footing yet. And then it took a spurs team that had that really was a super we. Don't call the spurs a super team but Duncan Ginobili and Parker are as good a trio as we've ever seen in terms of just winners and then you throw a collide in that mix super team people and pops the coach at an elite Co and some three point shooter. We've seen these just like like the teams that have won since eleven mavs team. They're better they're just. The Bar has been raised. Well I think the there's just more talent now too. I think this decade. There's more talent than there. Were last ticket but you look at two thousand. Eleven Dirk was twenty eight a game in the playoffs. Twenty one games. Two Thousand mellows twenty seven two thousand nine mellow mellow forty. Five thirty six eighty three percentage could he galvani and look. I'm a mellow defender been defending that I feel I. I hate the way. He's been hounded out of the League. What happened last last year in Houston was just not right and I I WANNA see Mellow get his last days out and but could could would he galvanize a team the way that team loved that revolved around of its eleven team? They wanted to win for themselves. There were a lot of ringlets guys is on that team but they wanted to win for him to do you think they've felt that way about him. No six though. Yeah I I think he I think he was a galvanizing. I like that. He wasn't eleven but was say even then like he was. He's a lovable dude. He's his teams of like you don't hear many guy you don't hear many you guys come away with issues with him. I mean the amazing thing about him is. He's a lovable German. I'm many times. Do you get to say and I are the lovable Germans. I would say this about both both him and Garnett Cut. Because I see those are two guys I covered really start to finish their MO was. They don't like change. You can't change anything Garnett as we know is like a superstitious guy. Ever you need to do a pot. Just all his suppress spitting in his Jersey banging his head on the standard. He was insane insane with a superstitions but they both proved that there are a lot more malleable than we thought. You Know Garnett went to Boston. which was a big departure for him? Won a title. There are and dirk loss. Nash you put him with Terry and kid and all these guys and he was able to Ha- they both were able to handle the change better than I think No one knows like me thought next category is was he a one of one hundred thousand percent. Yes it's just one of a kind will never standing like what am on. He's one of the original unicorns right. I think so I mean usually you have to play it. Be a star both ends to get the Unicorn label but I don't think there's never ever seen anybody like him again in my time. I don't WanNa make it sound like I've covered the whole NBA but for my twenty-five odd years. I wish I had a dime for every every time. Somebody said we want the next Novitsky. He created a category of player. Go yes unfortunately. Created Nicholas Tisch Cavalli. Because we did. Have this stretch offer. They're like Oh. Oh who's the next Derek. It's like guess what there's not going to be in the next day I'm pay. There was a whole slew of yeah. The unintentional comedy wrinkle category boy. There's there's a lot to work with here. We we had some really incredible Dirk haircuts. We almost like boo fonts at some point Straggly straggly wet perms and we had a weird crew cut stretch And he was like the first few years on the mavs they. He made fun of him constantly about his hair and his clothes right. Was He the whipping boy of the maths early like in a good natured way you know I think they did. I think on one hand there was a little resentment because he and Nash came in. And we're just anointed like you guys are the franchise cornerstones. But for the the most part I think dirk was always embraced. Oh good guys like Finley. Gary translates really took. Gary Trent Gary Trent was a huge dirk mentor Toori tribe serious but they dirk dress just like holger flannel shirt top. siders I mean he was getting slaughtered. Hopsital Hopsital I WANNA go back in time and unware top all as much as I wore top siders from like age thirteen eight. I can't believe they're back. I can't believe people wear that's hilarious. I I shudder what I cringe at the thought of how much I wore them as a teenager. He but that's that's how he showed up top siders jeans flannel flannel shirt and just getting destroyed by teammates. Another unintentional comedy was The Cuban dirt Nash. Photo shoot where WHO's on. Whose shoulders isn't Dirk odder shoulders? Those pictures are hilarious out. Also urged people to go and look at the drunk Dirk Dash photos from like three or four which was really like pre twitter pre everything but Nash has got around anyway. Nash said something like will those pictures ever go away. I hope not like they. They just love the. Yeah I they thought it was funny. They gotTA give a shout out to dirks half German half black accent where he comes in the league with German but needs around all these basketball players on the he ends up having like this weird thing I mean I mean the guy wrapped all the time. Oh Yeah Detlev. Had the first half half German half black type of accent and then dirk at took it to another another level and then we got to give a shoutout to Magnolia by dirks documentary. which was my favorite possible salary? Cap Violation at the League could have never investigated right. Cuban paid like thirty five million for Dirks documentary. Forty much forty five. I'm guessing it. It could have commanded. Well it wasn't independent Doc. Okay allegedly I. Yeah a fan. Does sportsbook is fan. Does sports betting thing APP now available in New Jersey Pennsylvania West Virginia and Indiana. They got your back with. I can't believe they do this. 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Seven two thousand Sixteen Antonio which spoiler alert. We're doing a whole Pakistan. That's that companion to this podcast. So we'll cover that then Game Five two thousand six Phoenix Western finals else. Fifty Points Twelve rebounds twenty four thirty four in the second half lead me to rate dirk is playing at a higher level than any forward since bird. You know. I don't use the legends name in vain Third One would be game to two thousand eleven o'casey Forty eight points in the western Western finals. Twelve fifteen field goals twenty four for twenty four free throws. That's unbelievable against right. I say durant Serge Ibaka Kendrick Perkins. That's why to me. That's when he was at the peak of his powers. He was obviously more athletic when he was younger. He didn't now but but that was just one of the great box scores. Twenty Four for twenty four meeting with him and then the last one was game to two thousand eleven finals. Wade makes the mistake of trash. Talking in front of their bench. Dirk gets is scores the last nine points and then the second graders shot of his career. Low game winning lefties scoop shot where he takes. I think gosh off. The dribble spins around lefty makes three seconds. I've Miami's no timeouts serious. Changes whole thing. But it's impressive Next categories market corrector corrected. Zip Possible Dirk. Slightly up-market corrected by Kevin Durant. He had he had his own world as the seven foot scoring forward. Nobody ever seen anything like it. And then Katie's like I'm a little leg to at a muscle gonNA learn stuff from your coach. Okay see so slight market correction. Yeah I mean I think they coexist. They're buddies you know I think there Legacy admiration I think. Yeah I mean I think if I'm Dirk I would look at it as you know. I was a role model for this guy and he took it to another low. That's good I don't I don't think it's a bad thing I wondered. Do we get a third dirk durant in our lifetime. Well what would you give. What does durant not have? What could you give him that he could take it to a next? Could you say Duran has dirt two point. Oh Yeah I mean you know that is a slave market correction action. So what does dirk three point. I'm trying to say like what it would be. You would have to. What does durant not do now that the next guy could do right? You need to run run. The point more like more oath be like like Joe like if John Moran grew seven inches. You know. Yeah I mean I shut. Iran's handles a pretty good but he and he's you don't see him though just flat out running the show but I gotta be honest. I don't think we see either guy again. I think it's too fluky to have those bodies and be as fluid and be able to dribble and do all this shit they do. I don't see it to be that accurate extent eleven slash seven one it. It durant is not six eleven. He's taller than Dirk deals. Question half ass. Internet research just wanted to mention. How many game game winners do you think there can twenty five ish eighteen? How much money do you think dirt made playing basketball? Three hundred million it's Over to fifty. It's unclear depends if you want to put the documentary money in there. I don't know if you want to include that. Have you seen the documentary. I don't know how many mellion I love. But that's a great salad cap. I wish I'm reading and I think that's my one I think that's my she should get an IMDB credit dirk had at this quote about what it's like to break through as a player. And I just want to mention it because I think I think it could be used with life to high school yearbook quote quote. We all know that this league is about confidence and once you have it your different player. That really is true. That is like the number one thing you need to know about the NBA. Because all these these guys come in talented the confidence arrived all right. This is going to be fun. We're almost done biggest. What if sliding door moments this is relevant that I don't know the whole sliding door thing so sliding doors is a terrible Gwyneth? Paltrow movie where if she I think it's if she'd gotten Latin in the subway and then this happened but then she has this dream where she didn't get in the subway and then this alternate universe happened all right. So let's do. We did Nelly refusing to let Derek in two thousand three which I think is a pretty good. What if what? If that became his two thousand eighteen rand Achilles injury version of you know complete food changes to summer. Two Thousand Four. Two amazing things happen here. That changed the course of his career. One L. A. has to trade shack. There's three possible places from to go. Everybody thinks it's going to be Dallas. I am the astle on page. Two in writing pieces like what. The fuck is Dallas doing trade dirt for Shack. Now we all know shacks GonNa be pissed off. We'd figure he has three to four great years left and you're guaranteeing a title and it's like the goal is to win a title Trade Dirk for Shack. I was dead wrong. Obviously Cuban who did a Lotta dumb shit in the mid to thousands of eight allowed them trades and weird free agent. Signings makes Turk untouchable and now is like untouchable for shack. What are you doing turn out to be the right call? I said I called dirt the German Bob mcadoo which is like. I think the most assaulted thing I've ever written for you personally. Because you love Bob Active So anyways what why snow shaving be and Bob mcadoo I now oh. I don't know what I was thinking. I think I was just lashing out. Glad you're looking up and reading all your things that USA is wrong like you when you were doing it earlier. I was thinking all I can remember from the. Oh six finals how it to Mavs up to Oh and I wrote way. He just doesn't have he's just not built for this. He's not ready to take a team to the finals. It's out there's somewhere to go son. I thought you could not build a championship team around there. Softens offense nobody did. I was wrong but nobody did. Second what if I think. By the way a lot of owners would have traded dirk for shack I would say sixty percent of the teams. Just do that trait. I'm kind of surprise. Cuban did as much as he loves. Great One of the Great Lucy are made the other one is they. Lead Steve Nationally for Phoenix. That's coming off a bad playoff series e that's the big what and spend his mind and Erick dampier not realizing the the handshake rules are about to change and nashes motivated by whatever and the whole thing. That's that's the one so do they win if they stay together so think about the league and what it's looking like at that point rate you have Kobe by himself. You've shaken way to Miami. You've Duncan in the spurs who I think are really relevant from uh-huh Tudo seven and are in it every year Any of the Pistons. You the Pacers Self combust with the tests may though the maybe we're in this alternate universe maybe that it doesn't happen so many teams. You Dow spending more money than anybody right. It's I. They didn't lose for lack of spending like they were spending left. And right I think the over one and a half if Nash stays there all the way through four through two thousand ten and two thousand ten. You must made the finals. I the League's changing. He got so he took such a leap now the questions. How much of it was the Dan? Tony System it was that it was some of it. DANTONIO system was some of it now. How much of that was Nash? Helping Dantonio and how much of it was helping Dan. Tony Dantonio helping Nash. I don't know that we can. I never really make that calculation. Nash changed his body in a huge huge way before four. Would he have done that if he stayed endows would he would. He have been as pissed if Cuban doesn't offer him thirty six million and the sun's offer him thirty million more. Now one of the things people say a is national dirk had two separate so they could grow up and become leaders that that absolute trash but I think this is fair to say Amari was such an explosive pick and roll partner for Steve would know how much did Amari diving to did. Peak Amari help open up nashes game in other ways Marion that that team was all those pieces. Marion Aryan. You know Joe Johnson Being Quinton. Richardson Raja whoever you put out there all. Those guys had career years playing when they play with Nash. Would it have been the same with the mavs personnel. I'm not sure but look national. Dirk would have been too with a five two of the seven best players in the League league. But we'll know seven. You could argue. There were the two best. A lot of those phoenix pieces and the coach fit. Nash reward also Dallas Coulda had to change the strategy about the did the roster. 'cause they were still old school. We need multiple centers. Calvin booths signed diop again. When you stand Nashes name we think of Phoenix Nash? And and it's just it's all roses and bouquets because he was so good at seem to build your head down on him. It wasn't that way in Dallas in Dallas. The talk was more about his what he didn't have his deficiencies. His last playoff series is a mab he had to. He was is guarded by Doug Christie and guarding Mike Bibby and they just wore them out towards to and and I don't know it just. It's it's an amazing what I think they would have won two titles. But that's just like Phoenix was a really great place for Nash. EEE should've won at least one there. That's really the shame that they didn't win in one. And you left out or you didn't leave out you glossed over the fuck you edge. said he had think which I think people need no. That's what I'm saying. Look at the ringer. Cuban offered him thirty six mil and the Suns beat it by thirty Mil. Yeah he was pissed when he went to Phoenix. Yeah she best in that rabbit look at his body when he left the mouse and look at it when he starts that next season he looks. You're saying steroids no he. It's all gone. He looks like a cyclist. Maybe he used to keep some chunk honor. That's when he started to date sugar. He thought he needed some padding to take the pounding. Yeah he went the other way and just became this wiry cyclist and they think it was good that him dirk separated because then they weren't going out because that's what happened to Larry Bird that third one three straight. MVP's they traded. Rick Robey as as to drink on the road. That's the one that's the part I don't buy. I think Nash Dirk would have been amazing in the no hand check era. Here's what Nash Nash. Said would we WANNA championship. Of course why not keep him in. Dallas wounded really affected their salary cap situation. They sort of being be able to bring in some of the other guys for the most part. I go to finish saying that will all be barstool debate. Were long done playing. As you said he doesn't think about this stuff Three more categories. His post retirement was he bark lead or was he Honda. It's too early to say Barkley. It is like you stay in the limelight. Honda you just disappear. I've a feeling he's GONNA disappear if Tim Duncan didn't disappear dirk and kind of disappear so we will see plenty of Dirk. Is My what I'm doing doing what the he'll be. I think like Michael Finley is a very. He's like player mentor. But he's also part of the front office. I think dirk will have that for Iran. He loves being. He's GonNa take a step back for us because he doesn't want to be around. He doesn't WanNa take their science. I st will disappear travel go to the Australian Open. Go Skiing. He loves skiing has been able to ski for twenty something years but he will eventually come. That's a good today but he didn't WanNa get hurt. Yeah you know skiing. Imagine being on the ski slopes Dirk Nowitzki. We say what's next the last time he skied. I don't know if he was as big as he is. Now maybe overrated underrated properly rated as the next category. I say I think underrated which which I can't believe I'm saying because the last category would his final pyramid ranking seventeenth all time but I think he's now underrated and even you saw it near the end of this farewell season which was three seasons. But whatever where Wade was getting as much of love and shine and and you know just everything is Dirk was dirk. Eric was just better in meant. More Weight has released that that you know. That's I think he resonates with you know some of his cultural impact is why he's so beloved honestly way when we started this thing beginning and you and you listed the five best forwards of all time in like wow. He's one of the five best Ford's time like it's kind of hard to believe race again. The thing I if I'm in I'm covering the mavs for the Dallas Morning News. Nobody looked at the ninety eight ninety. Nine lockout-shortened Akao Shorten Madison. Oh yeah we got to future. MVP's in here national. Vicki I mean you you didn't even see it coming. I mean nobody. You Know Dirks irks. Parents wouldn't have said my son is going to be the MVP. Nobody saw it coming what he became.