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S3E5: New Chapters with Veronica Roth


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So I'm always really grateful when you Mellon I are creating another podcast episode of really excited for today's in particular because I'm a huge fan of our guest and You know so. I feel like today's a good day but not every day is that's well as truth. It's hard to focus on what you're saying right now because of your gorgeous mane of hair. I really don't understand because everyone else is complaining about how they don't get to see their hair stylists than they've just got this messy mop on their head and you're just coming out here looking like Giselle bunch can with those okay Yummy caramelized waves and so I just gotTa say you're rocking so I think today should be a great day for you. Don't the fact that you compared to Giselle insane. That just means you're really good friends so thanks. I'll take it especially during quarantine but it's because I only really do my hair once a week while we record this so I was able to take an iron to my hair today and I went. Oh okay not too bad not bad but I am doing the drew. Carey more where I've got like the dark really dark hair at the top and then it's just lighter at the bottom but I'm owning it. I'm I mean you're working about it. Looks Fabulous everyone? Please go to instagram. And look at Kale's hair because it do that today. If you need something to brighten your day if you need something else to brain your day we have Veronica. Roth on our podcast. Barranca is we should just do it. She has had over forty. Two million books sold worldwide. Which is insane. She's a Number One New York Times bestselling author of the divergent series the CARB mark series and her new debut adult fantasy book chosen ones out. Now I'm reading it. I'm a huge fan. It's been such a fun. Quarantine Escape This book was voted the best book of April by Time Magazine Entertainment Weekly USA Today Fortune. Marie-claire Huffington Post apple books and so many more She's just kind of this amazing author who's had such great success at such a young age. I'm so excited to hear what she's been doing during quarantine because in my mind I feel like all authors and writers are just sitting there like with a with a keyboard in front of them and a cup of coffee and just like you know this is their moment to shine but even though that's what I think everyone I know who like a song writer or other writers are having really a big like a hard time being creative right now You're someone who usually journals. Have you been journaling or writing or meditating? You love to meditate did not no? I haven't I haven't been journaling. Haven't been meditating. Everything seems more difficult right now. That's for sure so I yeah I think. People are having polarizing experiences. Some are finding this as a a moment to shine and really creative and others. Are you know finding it a triumph? That they made dinner. Were able to do the dishes so I feel. Maybe I'm in the ladder It's just been difficult. How how about you have you found any bit of creativity in this Kansas? It's so sporadic. I like. I'll have a moment race. It down but I really have to force myself to sit down and just write it out. I feel so much better I noticed than if I set a five minute timer and just grab a pen and paper and just free write for five minutes. I feel like a weight off of my shoulders immediately after. I think it's just hard when you know usually during the day you would have moments to yourself and I think with everyone in the house especially like. I'm just more geared towards always wanting to be checking in to make sure if everyone's okay and you know thinking that I should be prioritizing my time with like busy stop like focusing on the dishes and focusing on the things that need to get done as opposed as just saying. It's okay to do something that isn't GonNa it. It's not necessarily considered productive but his actually emotionally productive. I should take your advice. Then because that's not something I've been doing and it will probably really help. I don't know I mean we. I need to take that advice to. I'm just GONNA keep listening to this part of our conversation over and over so you can think in speaking of conversations. We have such a great one with Veronica Roth. We're so excited for you guys to hear it without further ado here. We are. Thank You Veronica. Roth for joining us today. We are so excited to be talking to you. And yes Kayla was just talking about how she has been reading chosen and loving. It's it's the best quarantine book. I am so thrilled. I I'm so happy to hear that. Spent a very strange time to have his right now. It's usually like book tours and talks and speaking I would assume this I had a fifteen city tour land and then obviously that didn't work We had to figure out kind of a new way to approach it which was a challenge. But what is that new way that are you doing a bunch of interviews on zoom and that kind of thing just from the comfort of your home well I sort of like ran author conversations and that is streamed them on twitch because that was the best like open platform that people don't have to sign up in order to watch and so the events instead of being very kind of local based turned into anyone could attend even people in places that I would never have the opportunity to travel to so it was a sad not to be in person but there were good parts about it. Yeah it's a bizarre time of not being able to be with people but at the same time I feel like exactly what you just said. People are starting to say like. Oh my gosh. I'm actually hanging out more with family. I never see on zoom and I'm able to talk to these people and have meetings with people I've never been able to sit down with because they live across the world or the country because we're all just making the time to have these video calls. It's really bizarre way to connect. But I guess we're all connected. I know I think I'm in touch with my sister and I happened in the past. Even though we weren't in the same city that definitely happens. Well we want to take it back to an a much simpler form of communicating just like the classic form of storytelling. You're an incredible writer. You've had this wonderful career but we want to talk about when you first started writing. Did you always want to be a writer where you that like young kid in school writing stories constantly in reading under your covers every night? Yeah so I mean it was like a at a pathological level this reading things me so my mom. My mom had to make up she. She told me that. If I read at the breakfast table I would develop stomach problems. It really it was just that she was like. This is the only time I get to see her face. So if you could please. So Iran like took the book in the shower and held it out of the spray inseparable with books Which ruined audiobooks? Frankly but I started writing. I think when I was about eleven years old. I'm not sure why I think my mom had always bought us much of kits like she wouldn't allow us to be bored. That wasn't I mean you couldn't say that in my house and one of them was like a bookmaking kit so you had to fill in the pages and then you could send them off to be bound and I never finished or anything but I think it. It occurred to me about time. Like oh I could fill this book with something And that's kind of where I got started. That's fascinating go mom. That's amazing. She's kind of kind of a star. I do think it's really wonderful to kind of just know at such a young age. What you're meant to do. I mean clearly you had such success. At such a young age you were not even graduated from northwestern and you've soldier first book now. What was that experience like? Well it was pretty wild because I was kind of panicking. I hadn't I've been looking for a job and I wanted to work in publishing and I was. I had some experience as a copy editor so I knew how to fix. Grammar punctuation but So that was my plan you know and then I on the side doing his thing. When I thought really wouldn't work you know I was like might as well get started on this like endless stream of rejections that I'm probably GonNa again and And that's not what happened so so it was really great from one perspective. I mean it was great from all perspectives. Especially because then I suddenly had a job and didn't have to really worry about what was going to come next in the way that I had been And it was just wild. I you know you hear these stories about people writing ten books. They all get rejected before they ever get publish. Now was ready for that journey. I was prepared for it. Then that's divergent now. You wrote this book during a winter break. I think I read in multiple places I mean. Had you been conditioned to be writing that much that quickly? Were you always writing than like once? You started writing around that eleven twelve year old age rewriting constantly through high school. Or did you find your voice a little bit later? I wrote almost obsessively When I was younger I I think I used it as a way to kind of Distance myself from my own anxieties. I have an idea disorder and I definitely didn't know that until I was in adult so now Back in like well. This was a great in productive use of your time but he was also like a way of not dealing with the things. You were feeling so I wrote like you know every day and then Until College when I started to kind of ranch out and make more friends and be a little more social and then you know I think I found more of a balanced with it But I wasn't writing for this project for school. I was just writing it for fun because in school I wrote Adult literary fiction. Which is what they train you to write in school We decide but not what I was interested in doing for my career and You know so for fun on the side I was reading like young adult sci. As do you feel like you had the divergent story floating around within your head for a few years before it came out or did you feel it was just you know? Suddenly you had the story. Or how did you come up with the concept and go through that whole process? Well it's weird 'cause most of the time I don't have like a real concrete origin story for my books but I did so. I was in a psychology class. Just in intro psych class and I was learning about exposure therapy which is a method of treating anxiety or phobias. In which you're you repeatedly encounter but our stimulus provokes you're anxious before fear response But you do it in a safe environment and then you over time become desensitized to that thing and I thought I mean. It sounds like torture. But it's super effective. Which is totally bananas. So I just thought it'd be interesting to try to use that in kind kind of science fiction or fantasy context and that's where Divergent came from. Because that's like that one of the factions. They use that method to overcome your basic run of the mill fear And I mean that's just where. Yeah that's where it started. Just such a Concrete moment but it took me four years to write it So I got the idea. I wrote a couple of scenes and then I just like had college so I was just like whatever and four years later. Picks it up again. I love that you're in college like you're like having to obviously right something. That wasn't your passion. But you're secretly digging into the SCI FI world do been reading sci-fi a lot or was this kind of like a newfound genre because I feel like people sifi are like obsessed with Seifi my favorite writer but I took a writing class for fun and it was just a creative writing class and there was like an older gentleman at the community college who wrote like loved. Sifi like day one only talks about Saifi and he wrote this whole story and named the main character John Mayer like John Mayer in space like fighting these galactic things and I remember when finally at the end was like hey great job but it's interesting that you've John Mayer's protagonist. It's just the name of a character we're like no no no John. Mayer's like a musician who thinks songs like your body is a wonderland and I don't. He had no idea no idea. Oh Wow so. You're reading his story obviously imagining yes. But we're big Saifi Reader as well yeah so I had read a I read everything when I was a kid but I especially gravitated towards science fiction fantasy and a part of that came from my dad he was always into. I mean he has listened to the whole Lord of the Rings series while on a road trip to Pennsylvania when I was a child so like I mean. Dad Sounds awesome so cool he did. He did introduce me to a lot of pivotal settings. Yes but But Yeah so. I think I gravitated to for that reason in also like I was eleven when Harry Potter came to the states. I think so. That was like the perfect time you know. There were a lot of like very significant. Like I duNno Scifi fantasy media properties like the rings movies. Were also coming out of that time so I think it's just the perfect storm. Were they saying at school? Like this is a great John and this is like a great area to write in or were they anti Like science fire. Why A or anything like that? I think it's like the whole labeling something why to me is really interesting too because I feel like those are actually the books that sell insane amounts people want to make them into movies like adults and the Youth. Love them interesting that they immediately get labeled because it's just younger characters right is that what usually leads. Yeah there's there's a lot of adult fiction that's about younger characters. That isn't labeled Waie and Tom Hartley. There's that's related to gender of the author Like a book is more likely to be called a niche if a woman writes it or a woman or a non binary person anything like that. So it's like you must only be writing for these people right So that's that's the thing but then there's also kind of Like a WII book looks at Adolescence. As if the characters moving forward through it An adult book about a young character will reflect. Back on the lessons so that's been nice way things get categorized and then there's kind of like the other side of it which is s great Now wow I've never heard it explained that way and you just like so clearly now compartmentalized it for us. Well think about it a lot right. Yeah I'm sure I'm sure. And so now chosen. One is not considered why it is adult to. What was there anything specific? You felt like you had to do to differentiate it from your other novels when a lot of pressure on myself to make it by different. Because I don't know I find those agents to be like useful up to a point when they stunningly stopping useful so I tried to approach it like I pressure everything else but I knew that on a conceptual level it was different because I mean the characters are older but also I don't know They're not coming of age right there. They've already reached this goal. They've been working toward their entire life. Which I think everyone kind of knows about because either you went to college if you went out on your own or you know started a family like those. Are Things that you dream about your whole life like finally. When I get to that point I will have arrived right and then In chosen that's like just an extreme. Because they save the world right they are is save the world and they save the world. And what do you do after that like I? I'm trying to answer that question in my own life And Mike Characters trying to answer it but like in a really extreme way in the sport. It's so interesting you bring that up because that's what we were discussing before this is is you definitely experienced that. I mean like you said so. Many people prepare for like ten rejection letters for ten. You know whatever all these different books and you send your first book out and then you have this huge success. What is the aftermath like afterwards trying to you know then go on to your next endeavor your next book your next everything? Do you feel pressure. What's that experience like? Yeah well it's it's tricky bright because you know it's not like it was a great and fantastic thing but I hope that I get to move past. You know as a someone who makes things that that would be good because I want to have a long career. But it's it's really hard to separate yourself without rejecting the thing that you did so like. I love divergent. I think it's really fun and I'm glad by and very grateful for all the things that happened as a result of it But I do like have to keep writing. New Things now so It's interesting in your twenties. I feel like because majority of this happened in your twenties right the in the divergent series creation. The film the everything and how much of your life gets imprinted on you as if it's like your identity in your twenties and then I feel like you hit your thirties. And you're like WHOA. Whoa WHOA WHOA. I'm not just that I'm I'm growing and I'm I'm I'm I'm evolving. And it's kind of like shutting this old skin at least that's what it's been like for me and something. I didn't really anticipate. Do you feel like that. Was something happening for you towards the direction of wanting to write more adult stories or do you just think that was a natural progression? Yeah I think I I wanted to expand and I wanted to like. I wasn't trying to. I don't know I. I like writing for young adults. I already missed doing school. Is that since stuff like I? I don't know teenagers. Very special and Intense and I really liked them. I feel like a special softness my heart toward them. Even when they're like insulting me to write face Chapin's off time. It's never purpose like there's no guile there but anyway so. I already miss them but I did want to. Just explorer what I'd be capable of kind of beyond that and And then I have this really pressing idea so I just couldn't I thought of it. I think I looked it up because I had emailed might agent about it when it came up with it and it was like two thousand seventeen which I guess. Isn't that long for a book? But for me felt like I was stewing forever so it's interesting because There are a lot of parallels between what you are describing in your career and I think what can I discuss Between each other as well as you know the show that we were both on the vampires was really huge and it was when we were mainly in our twenties and the show ends. And then now what you feel a little bit like oh I have to find my identity. you know moving forward but also you don't want to forget the past what's created you and so just hearing you say that I went. Wow we're all kind of going through this simultaneously in different ways and I do think it has to do with our age as well. And that's what we discuss on this podcast. All the time is you're in your thirties. And you think you're going to have figured out and you just don't and that's okay and we're finally at the point in our lives were. We're allowing ourselves to let it be okay that we don't have it. I'll figure it out you know. I don't know I thought about this before before. Our Zoom Call Again. Because because if you have something that's really successful like that's it's awesome right like It's the dream it's like way working toward but then it carries with it. A whole different set of challenges. Which is you WanNa define yourself as you know being capable of doing something other than that and It's hard to do that without explicitly rejecting what established you you know Yeah we're GONNA take a quick break. We'll be right back in just a minute. Bare Minerals started the clean beauty revolution in one thousand nine hundred five when they launched their original foundation since then the clean. 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Were there times I mean just looking back that you went through those kind of you obviously had to learn very quickly? I mean by the time you're writing these books. You are already on a film set of one of the books. Send your finishing the other and you know you're young. Did you feel pressure from people around you to then shift your creative thought of how something was supposed to be like? Are there lessons that you learned during that time? That's really affected how you write today Yeah I think I mean the main thing was that I feel like we're all just in panic mode all the time Me and my editor and my publisher. I aged everyone. I mean we just In book publishing that something gets adapted is kind of a rarity and was especially at that time and especially with younger. Audience Works for younger audiences so You know like Harry Potter and twilight and I don't think hunger games that have been adapted by the time I sold rights to diverge so as just like those are the only examples we had and So it was kind of wiles. No one knew what to do. No one had any sense of strategy it was just like let's cope with like what's happening in this moment at this time And so I think it's hard to look back because it's like well there's a couple of things. I wish I'd done differently or thought about but I also know that we did. Everyone did the best they could with a very strange situation so but I I think I learned that It's important a slowdown and look around. I wish I'd done that a little bit more because I mean I had never So I never met like a famous person in my whole life and then and then I was on the set of divergent watching Jag Courtney. Do BICEP Carl. What's happening right now so really I should have liked. Paid more attention to what was going on around me. I tried but you know there's only so much you can do Literally I feel so bad for him. He's he's such a nice man but the when I met him. Use literally like pumping iron dreams about or what you only write about in your novels even realize no Pete my pants when I met Kate winslet story. Gosh well I would like down here that you can I? Can we please hear that because I feel like already closer to or just talking to you on this soon call and that is the drew? What a time so I will tell you about us. You want again here so She like she was on the set and I was like keeping my distance casino. I don't WanNa like intrude so I'm sitting in my director's chair with my little earphones on. And then she comes over with her kids to say hello and she was like. My son has a question for you. I'm not going to do the accent anyway. And then he was like. Why did you have? My mom died on the second book and I was like well. I didn't know that she would be played by your mom. I WanNa win the character. He was like Oh that makes sense anyway. So high pleaded real cool and then I went and sat down and I literally laughed hysterically for like two minutes with my husband because I was just like. Yeah that's cool. I just gave me goosebumps. Gosh I mean going from like road trips with your dad playing Lord of the Rings and then all of a sudden. You're there with Kate. Winslet and a movie about like the. You wrote that came from you and your heart and your brain and your fingers like I was there a moment that just back to you in the head being like. Oh my gosh this is this is like I'm a writer of this capacity. I don't I don't know how to. Yeah so I think that weirdest moment was They shot the first movie in Chicago. Which makes up here And I went to where they're building. They're building Trains like because that's you know. One of the sets of the movie was a train and they built them to look exactly like our L. trains here so as like stepping inside. Perfect replica of the strengths and I met one of the guys. Like the big beefy early men who was working on strain our you the author on. We talked a little bit and I think that was the weirdest moment because it was like this man is an extremely capable like salt of the earth. Man Man builds this thing and And he he did it because I wrote it into this book and it was so weird like beyond any other experience that was it consoles just like her son is like incredibly capable like and competent and Mike. He's doing this because I was like. This'll be fun. Like it. Sounds like it was one of the first moments where it came. It was from from page to reality something tangible. You could see and that you created. That's be fantastic. I know I know that this chosen ones takes place in Chicago divergencies take place in Chicago. How much of your characters? When I was reading the book having not met you yet I was wondering how much of your characters are influenced by people in your life or yourself do you just create them or they influenced by loved ones. How does that process work? Well I found that I can't basic character on someone I know because inevitably there's this pressure to kind of catch them and you can like the pressure student so In stop what I do is I. Try to figure out One thing about them like what are they want mode store in the case of chosen ones. there's kind of one main characterised loan but there are five of them that saved the world so I thought about actually I decided how each of them would relate to their world. Wide Fame So Sloan is like resentful of it and her boyfriend. Mad Is He kinda takes it on as responsibility like I have to do something with my platform And Esther has like started a lifestyle brand so you know and I thought those details really define them in in a Lotta in very significant ways and you can kind of build a character based on just that so. That's kind of an In that case it was interesting because each of them is like a little bit of like a piece of the truth for what I felt when divergent was at its peak because I was never like I mean I don't like offers are not famous in the way that like actress guest during this right like no one ever recognize me in an airport or that happened but but only wants Anyway so it's it's not the same but but there is like an emotional reality to it but I think is understandable. At least yeah like I don't know I'm not fit most famous person in the world for saving it but you know but I do understand that little piece of each Carter. That's cool and I was gonna say I think it depends on who you talk to especially with like the way people communicate online and twitter. I'm sure you get like so many messages and tweets say like expressing how much your characters and your storytelling meant to people. All over the world or angry I get a lot of angry anger. People feel so entitled how they also feel so connected through so I guess it's like I try and take it as a compliment. I mean could you imagine back when you were when you were that age if you had access to be able to like write your authors immediately and let them know what you're thinking while you're reading? I would have been a nightmare you you talk about the process of being at the height of everything and everyone scrambling not knowing what to do and did you have a mentor or someone that you went to to help you go through that quick rise to fame and like help you through that process of it. There are a couple of people so I talk a lot about my agent. Joe Is her name And which she became successful really young. Also she's only a couple years older than me now. We kind of went through it together but she is such a level headed person and was always so fierce about protecting me. You know I think that helped a lot because she would kinda remind me like. It's okay to be upset about this sort of like it's okay you know it's like it's okay to ask for for something else if you don't feel comfortable that kind of thing so she was really helpful and really got me through it and then also like a more mentor role I became friends with Margaret Stohl. Who wrote The beautiful creatures books which was also adapted into movie a couple of years before or maybe the year before diversion and She helps me too because she was like. When this movie comes out get out of the country like well. Why and she was like you're just GonNa want to remember that. The world is very big. It's like okay good advice. That's graded mean. Wow that's such a specific piece of advice largely but you did you get out of the country. I did yeah. I went to France my husband and we were like out in the fields and I was like the world is bigger than this. That thought that great advice So even though the world is bigger than this all feels really small right now as we discussed before we got on Mike. Because we're all still in quarantine between l. a. In Chicago Kaelin I've talked a lot about feeling just not creative during this time as a writer. How're you doing? How are you handling being home? Do you find that it's been like actually a really creative space for you. Are you writing a lot writing short stories? I know you're you right a lot of short stories in general or man. I wish I had been able to be creative during this time but I have played a lot of animal crossing and I have been on instagram. And that's the Russians. I don't know why because my life is the same like I work from home. I work with one window which is behind me right now. one window between me and my husband. We both work from home so for us. This is the same I mean. Except we can't go to the grocery stores easily but I think everyone feels this. It's been an. I'm sure you guys do to. It's just like feels like there's something in the back of your mind always taking like sucking the energy out of you basically and so. It's hard to I man anyone who's managed to make anything in this time. I'm like more power to like. I have no idea how you're doing that. It's like a superpower. Yeah you are not alone. Yeah there's been just I mean I had week one I was like. Oh my God. I'm going to be free writing every day. I'M GONNA Mezei. I'm signing up with these classes when a preschool homeschool. My child's like you know and then by week three. I was just like cures. You know an instructional video on Youtube and Mommy's just take about child to be massacred. It's it's just a really bizarre time but I have really eerie moment reading chosen ones because you talk about that magical plague that kills people and then it. It's happening right now and I'm wondering if I felt that. Did you have a moment when all of this was first? Starting like Whoa. I just predicted the future. Not Kinda did I kind of feel like other. People predicted the future in profound ways. Like that who'd be contagion was doing really well on streaming. The first week is everyone was like. I wonder if they'll tell us anything and told US everything is terrifying. How isn't Kate winslet in contagion? It's possible she is usually she is. I haven't seen it because I do the opposite I was like I'm GonNa Watch sitcoms and the rest of this. I went right to contagion. That was my first mood warranty and my husband had never seen it and I was like good. Buckle up you're GONNA this is GonNa scare the shit out of you so why. Why did you go straight for contagion? Because I think I was just in denial and so I think seeing it's an on like in a movie I was like Oh see. It's not like that like that's an extreme virgin and then as the gone on I'm like Oh God I like it's way too close in so terrifyingly close to our current reality But I think you're exactly right. I felt just like you know. I cannot be feel rested at all. I just cannot seem to feel rested by the end of the day. Because it's hard not to be sucked into wanting to know what's constantly going on in the world and you also I mean have children have a child at least one you'd love to. We got three girls in the house. Yeah okay so anyway. Anyone who has kids Simon dislike as long as you're like keeping the lights on. I don't know let's pretty commendable dog. Only it's still something to take care of but yeah I'm definitely a first time mom. My daughter's nine months in quarantine. It is intense and I don't have to do schooling. Which is you know. I think parents have to teach their children every day. Is You know that's difficult. But it's been a whole new experience for my husband and I like just being first time parents in quarantine and going through it. We're we're going to ask. That's pretty lonely. That's time when you want to share it with Social Connection. Your can't yeah yeah totally. Yeah it's just been interesting but I know you haven't been writing very much during this time but have you been reading anything. Have you found comfort in reading anything or is there someone I know? A lot of people have been like reading. Re Reading. Books are re watching their favorite movie or re watching their favorite show man. I really wish that I had had more success with reading. I I did a little bit. I I read the next installments in this series of Novellas so I think shorter has been easier for me in this time. Like short stories on the novellas reading. They're called the murder bought diarrhea so they're like pretty satisfied. Funny so I think Stuff that has humor in it. I've gravitated toward or like I said I mean so I had all these sitcoms that I had never watched the last season of like parks and REC and community. And I I think new girl I just hadn't ever finished them and I just watched a series of like last season's I think I've never wanted like say goodbye. Those characters before and yeah this time I was like all right. I'm going through it doing it. So that's what I've been doing. Mostly tying up loose ends. I love it. That's so great Kansas. You had said you were reading a book that you loved that you felt like really helped you not helped you quarantine but helps you escape a little bit. What was the name of it? I have successfully read one book. Guy went deep into a hardcore psychology book. It was a little much so then I went to wear the crawdads thing and that was a lovely book because all the chapters are also three or four pages so you feel very productive so I could. It'd be like Oh yeah. I knocked out of chapter today. Four year old. You have it one for those looking for relief. Good escape breed chosen runs. Because I'm reading it right now and it is perfect for quarantine because there are a lot of parallels with what's going on right now And the characters really interesting and fascinating but it is another world so you're able to feel like you can escape as well And I've just found it really wonderful for my corn team pleasure and I'm not just saying that Bronco because you're because you're on I'm being honest it's really been great well gliding. So will there be another this part of a trilogy. No there'll be a sequel and that will be okay. Great I can't wait and finally Veronica as a sci Fi writer. I feel like we're living in a sci-fi book and movie right now. So could you please rewrite some of this or rewrite the ending? Worry can you give us some guys like what would happen in the SCIFI world? Right now the hope that we need I feel like in a in a book this would descend into chaos More than it has already but the good thing about stories as most stories have some hope in them like even contagion like they survive right them but like lucky for us Real life is a book. So just advise. Everyone should not panic and trust the people doing their best work in science and health. Care all of those places and people who keep the Internet running right now. I would like to extend a special shoutout goes. What would we do without them? I don't know not not. Well thank you so much Veronica for joining us today from Chicago and we hope that you stay warm. Where can all of our listeners find you? Are you big on social media? Where can they look yup? Yeah I'm active on Instagram. The Ross books and then that's pretty much it I mean I guess I'm on facebook. Also hold on Veronica Ross but then my website is brought across books dot com. So we just enjoyed having you and we've been so excited to have you on this conversation great. Well I'm grateful to know that. She's been chilling on animal farm and Instagram. What is animal farm? I didn't know what that was when she referenced it. Is it a game? It's a game and of course I only know about it from buzzfeed because you know I love buzzfeed and check it every day like five times a day and take all the quizzes but apparently you sell things like turnips? And it's I don't know I don't really know what animal farm is. But maybe that's maybe I could get into it. Maybe that's my new thing during this five minutes a day you start and do Animal Farm A. Yeah you're right. I think someone that's had the amount of success that she's had for two just openly admit. Hey I'm just playing animal farm right now and that's okay it's really nice to hear There's just you know a lot of pressure report put on ourselves. I know I put pressure on myself every day to try and be productive and I think during this time you just can only do what you can do and man. I'm a big Fan of hers before but I'm like such a fan girl now and she's just so cute. I mean we zoom on this podcast and just to see how wonderful she is in person. I I'm excited to continue reading her books in I want that sequel to come out now. I loved hearing about how she read when she was younger. Like that was my like looking back. I wish I had been that kid. I like still. I hope that one day like Florence is just like the most insane reader. Who just like can't put a book down because I am so jealous. We a bunch of friends who are writers. And that's how they were when they were younger. I think it's a really interesting common thread through a lot of writers who are doing well. I don't think that that's like the ticket but I think it definitely helps. I think it's a cool thing to happen common. But I just didn't read as much when I it's nice that I'm finally trying to read more as an adult. I feel like I've read lot more now. I was just obsessed with beauty and the beast and she always walked in red so I remember practicing and trying to read the book and walk at the same time but I wasn't actually trying to read the book. I was just trying to be like bell from the beast. So there's a difference. I was busy making out with my jt posters on the wall. So you know you were far more advanced than priorities. Hope you have enjoyed this emphasis directionally challenged and we just love you. I really appreciate you listening. And we hope it brings you a little bit of sunshine in this kind of stormy time in the world And we will see you next week as the creators of clean beauty bare minerals driven by purity in formulation an uncompromising performance. 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