July 15: The ins and the outs
This is a C._B._C.. PODCAST in the fall of nineteen ninety eight an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady went missing. She had a very <hes> very distinctive silhouette and very recognizable see you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street. All police could find were her thirty cats shot dead. I always knew something had happened to her. Not just vanish like that uncover the Cat lady case from C._B._C.. podcasts is available now hello. I'm Robin Bresnahan sitting in for Carol off hello. I'm Karen Gordon. This is as it happens the podcast edition tonight's the INS and the outs after the U._S.. President suggests that some of his Democratic critics should go back where they came from a retired senator says it's pastime for more of his fellow Republicans to reconsider their support for Donald Trump six deaths too many a spokesperson for the Calgary. Humane in society says he's all foreign end to chuck races at the Calgary Stampede but despite more horses dying his organizations hands are tied a case of mistaken identities they called him the Al Capone of the desert but now oh he's being acquitted thanks to the work of people including our guest who investigated whether the Eritrean man was really a people smuggler and a case of taken identities M._p.'s gathered for an emergency meeting an auto out where they ask a top desjardins banker how a rogue employee was allowed to make off with the personal data of millions of customers mold stomping grounds curious grope inside the International Space Station sends researchers on a radiation riddled path that has people speculating speculating about fungus from outer space and park that thought Japanese car rental companies get worried about customers who don't drive vehicles anywhere at all but it turns out there reasons aren't nearly a sexy as somewhat think as it happens the Monday edition radio. That's ready to get this show on the road. The tweets have been called racist but donald trump isn't backing down over the weekend the U._S.. President told Democratic Congresswoman to quote go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came unquote. He doubled down on those comments during an event at the White House today he appears to be referring to congresswoman Alexandria Akhazia Cortez Ilan Omar ianna Presley clean and Rashida to leave all women of color. They held a press conference this afternoon. Here's some of what representative Ilan Omar said this is a president who has openly violated the very value our country aspires to uphold equality under the law religious liberty equal protection and protection from persecution and to detract from that he's launching a plainly racist assist attack on four duly elected members of the United States of House of Representatives. All of whom are women of color. This is the agenda of white nationalist whether it is happening and chat rooms or it's happening on National T._v.. And now it's reached the White House Garden he would love nothing more than to divide our country based on race religion gender orientation or immigration status because this is the only way he knows he can prevent the solidarity of us working together across all of our differences democratic congresswoman Ilan Omar in Washington. Today Republicans are being called out for not condemning president trump's comments jeff flake is urging members of his own party to stand up. He was Republican Publican U._S. senator until earlier this year we reached him in Provo Utah Mr Flake. How would you characterize the president's comments telling these four congresswomen to go back from where they came from its offensive and vile the phrase go back where you came from and I was just an awful phrase and to to be sad about four Americans who are members of Congress? A three of them were born in the United States just to is wrong offensive and vile. What about racist no? I'll let others use that term. I don't think it's particularly useful to go into that. Certainly an inappropriate thing to say <hes> for anyone let alone the president of the United States well. Why why wouldn't you say it's racist because it's a loaded term that means different things different people and I just feel it's better not to use it but these women are all women of color? I mean he wouldn't be saying this. Do you think that if they were white women woman he seems to single out <hes> those who who are of color <hes> for comments like this yes. That's all that others use that term. What does it tell you that there's been radio silence for most Republicans in Congress on these comments and you know many are up for reelection and don't want to get on the wrong side of the President <hes> the leadership <hes> you know doesn't want to speak out because then that will cause you know reporters to talk to those who are invulnerable invulnerable racist and <hes> the leadership? I'm sure would like to see it. Just pass over believe me I understand the inclination to just you know be so tired of responding to the president's comments and I usually we give my colleagues a pass but <hes> there are times when the president says something so so offensive <hes> that's it Harkens back to perhaps when he referred to the press as the enemy of the people I think there was far too little you know backlash there that he continued to use it and I it becomes normalized and <hes> it's kind of led to for lack of a better term trump vacation of politics here and that that's a dangerous place to be. Have you looked at the response to your tweet tour where you say that that Republican elected officials can't be expected to respond to every comment by the president but there are times when the president's comments are so violent offensive that it's incumbent on Republicans to respond and condemn and this is one of those times. Have you looked at the response to that tweet. I haven't why not just <hes> have other things to do but I felt it was important to say that <hes> I guess the response. There'll be some who say hey you should come out. That's week sauce. You ought to <hes> call him a racist or you ought to go further. You ought to call for impeachment that here's here's my issue is <hes>. I've never been a supporter of Donald Trump. I didn't support him in the last election. I couldn't support him in in this one and I couldn't even campaign with him for my own re-election but I I'm not with those who say we ought to somehow disqualify him. I'm not with I have a lot of respect and admiration for Jimmy Carter but to to refer to this president as illegitimate in a way that would try to disqualify is not what we ought to be doing part of UH reluctance <hes> so my colleagues having responding I'm sure as they see some of the comments of these four women that the president has criticized and they have been anytime so crude and vulgar and they're calling for the president to be impeached or removed and so Republicans will simply say. Hey we you know they they get what they have coming. I don't feel that way. Although I tweeted at one point when one of the four use language that was crude because 'cause I had been very critical. If the President <hes> I said the fact that the president speaks his way should not give others licensed to do the same I did we see the response to that and it was about thirty thousand comments most of which general theme was if the president husbands speaks this way than almost we and that's the trump application of politics that we can't abide and we have to get away from so the antidote to that is to make sure the president is defeated next year well. That's exactly what I was getting at. It's <hes> by looking at some of the responses to your tweets Mr Flake a lot of people say actually it was weak sauce and that you should've called them out of that. New should be asking for stronger measures instead of just using words like vile and condemn. So what would you say to those people who feel that way the the the remedy here is to make sure he's defeated and the next election. I don't think it does any good and probably plays the president's favor to talk about <hes> peach meant and trying to disqualify him. How much of this name calling tweeting is just an attempt to turn our attention from what's happening in detention centers for migrants at the border i? I don't know I mean often. I think the president does us you know some tweets or something to draw attention. I'm not sure if this one was meant and to do that but <hes> it could be. It's not just that there are other things going on that I think he probably tries to draw attention. From what do you think is happening to your Republican Party. I'm very concerned about where we we are as a party. I I think millennials <hes> and <hes> suburban women in particular have been you know walking away from the party for a while because of I think Republican Party's failure to address and to even acknowledge climate change range and <hes> just the late which is being used or is really a turnoff to suburban women <hes> and I think they've been walking away from the Party for Awhile now. They're in a did sprint and I think the <hes> the midterms we just went through should have been take a wakeup calls and they've been for Republicans. Do you think Mr Trump is going to get a second term. No I don't I feel more confident. All the time that <hes> more Americans will turn away from this <hes>. I <hes> pity dozen Mr Flake. Thank you very much for your time today. Thank you take care. bye-bye Jeff Flake represented Arizona in the U._S.. Senate until earlier this year he spoke to us from PROVO UTAH. Hm Hm three more horses died at the Calgary Stampedes Chuck Wagon races this weekend that makes six this year. It's a number that has reignited the debate over the stampede in general and it's Chuck Wagon Races in particular the races involved teams of thoroughbreds harnessed to wagons and driven hurtling around the track and nearly every year horses die. Phil Fulton is with the Calgary humane society. We reached him in Calgary. Mr Fulton would is the Calgary humane societies position after six horses have now died at this year stampede <hes> our position is not changed <hes> we have always stated <hes> publicly <hes> the Calgary humane society opposes the use of animals for entertainment in which they were placed at risk of suffering do stress pain injury or death <hes> we've directly asked the stampede to stop these high risk Rodeo events <hes> and Chuck Wagon Races and despite the safety measures and improved protocols <hes> to better protect the lives of. The animals these deaths continue to occur so just to clarify. You think that the chuck wagon races should be banned band is I'm not sure what to think of the word ban because there's implications of <hes> signing petitions and protesting <hes> we're an animal welfare organization and I think that needs to be <hes> clarified for the public is that as an animal welfare organization <hes> our job is to <hes> <hes> uphold the law <hes> and we can't really engage in any advocacy activities that would create a conflict of interest or compromise our ability to effectively enforce animal welfare legislation so it sounds like when it comes to calling on the stampede to end these these practices with all due respect. It sounds like your organization is a bit of a toothless tiger. Yeah you're not wrong. The trouble is we can only enforce the laws as they're written <hes> so the law that we enforce <hes> is the Alberta Animal Protection Act and unfortunately as that law is written there are <hes> exemptions for what are referred to under the law as generally accepted practices <hes> and so when it comes comes to the Rodeo while it doesn't explicitly say <hes> Rodeos are exempt Rodeos aren't illegal <hes> we don't have any legal authority to simply shut them down. We'll just help us understand that because the executive director her of the National Advocacy Group Animal Justice this is a woman called Camille lab check says pardon the Pun but but that's bull as she says Albert Alberta makes illegal to inflict unreasonable distress on animals and and there are no exceptions for rodeos there are it's not explicitly written into laws exceptions for Rodeos but things like farming fishing hunting <hes> slaughter <hes> those are exempted as well as generally accepted practices so <hes> we have worked with prosecutors and that would constitute Rodeos so unfortunately <hes> we do not have any recourse and if there was something in the law that we felt that we charge and prosecute we would have done it by now so no amount of public pressure no amount of me fill saying Golly Gee <hes> I'd really like to prosecute doesn't matter <hes> If if if we do not feel that there's grounds for charges and if the crown prosecutor similarly does not feel that we can successfully <hes> prosecute than it would it would frankly be a waste of time <hes> and if we did try to do that it would be seen as nothing more than grandstanding <hes> and like you said we would go nowhere. This story comes up almost every year at the Calgary stampede and it's often framed in two ways on the one hand. There's the question is chuck wagon racing a a barbaric abusive animals that should be banned on the other hand. Is it a proud rural tradition that saves horses from the slaughterhouse and provides them comfortable life. Where do you sit on that spectrum organization ah again our perspective is <hes> that we don't condone it as far as the assertion that saving an animal from slaughter is an excuse to then put it into a situation where it has a high likelihood of suffering <hes> pain stress and ultimately death it bunk? I don't believe in that argument. There's an intrinsic value in animals. I don't don't believe in the assertion that just because it was saved theoretically from slaughter that somebody can put it through <hes> that level of pain stress and ultimately dying the Calgary Stampede said that in light of this weekend's events and it is committed to quote initiating a thorough review process surrounding chuck-waggon safety and quote. What do you think that should like? I don't unfortunately have any specific <hes> requests at this time <hes> we will <hes> as we do every year meet with <hes> the stampede to discuss <hes> what can be done <hes> and you have to remember. This is a hundred year event. It's not going anywhere anytime soon so seeing that they are <hes> making a commitment to make more changes were always going to be in favor of that the more that we can make things <hes> safer <hes> if they're not going to end it were always going to be in favor of that. Who has more power? Is it the stampede or is it an organization such as yours. I mean you already acknowledged that. You're a bit of a tiger here but I'm just wondering you know in twenty years from now. Are we going to be hearing the same arguments that this is a a rule way of life and that that will always went out. I'm born and raised Calgarians <hes> and <hes> chuck wagons aren't a rural way of life. You'RE NOT GONNA go to a farm and see them whipping around on chuck wagons and there are literally hundreds of different ways for us to celebrate our Western heritage which I'm very proud of that do not involve animals being put in harm's way <hes> if there's going to be changes it's going to come from either the stampede or the people and if people are frustrated as they should be rather than sending an angry email to cover humane society who can't do anything contact stampede. Contact your local M._l._A.. Because that's the only way that things are going to change either. The stampede makes the change. There's a change to a law or there's a change in perspective and the people sitting in those seats because every night those seats are full Mr Fulton. It was good to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time by Phil. Fulton is manager of community outreach at the Calgary Humane Society <music> in the minds of many Canadians. The Second World War was a distant conflict fought on so far away continents but this week's Newfoundlanders will get an explosive reminder of just how close to their shores the battle raged a team of military divers from the Royal Canadian Navy began an operation today into the depths of the ocean just off Bell Island in eastern Newfoundland. Their mission is to retrieve undetonated explosives up to two hundred of them. Neil Burgess has been to the site. Mr Burgess is the president of the Shipwreck Preservation Society of Newfoundland and Labrador. We reached him in Flat Rock Newfoundland Mr Burgess these explosives have clearly been down there for awhile now how come the armed forces is looking to remove them now well as those ships <hes> rust and corrode road different things become exposed over time and that's the case with some of these shells some of the lockers the steel lockers that they were held in are starting to fall apart and <hes> shells are becoming more visible. How dangerous are these shelves shelves? They were used to defend these ships from a submarine on the surface so they do a lot of damage. They were high explosive shells. Can you tell us the story about the racks how they came to be there and a little bit about the history behind them sure <hes> the Bell Island iron minds where the biggest iron ore mines in the British Empire in the Second World War so they were hugely important to the allied war effort so the these four ships were at bell island to load up with iron ore and then go over to Cape Breton to take it to the Sydney Steel Mills where it would be turned into steel and what happened to the four ships well the German navy knew about ally and the importance of the mind because Nazi Germany was the biggest customer of iron ore <hes> from Bell Island in the late thirties before world war two started so in the war you both twice came to bell island in nineteen forty two and attack ships there with torpedoes and they sank four ships altogether. Do you think many Canadians know about this history history as we were saying. I think most Canadians thought the Second World War was a pretty distance conflicts but the fact that was actually came at one point right. Take Canada's shores yeah I mean this was right on our doorstep. So in nineteen forty two German U boats were hunting off Newfoundland Nova Scotia and in the Gulf of St Lawrence and right up into the Saint Lawrence River north of Gas Bay and they the Germans sank dozens of ships including several <hes> Royal Canadian Navy warships when you dive down to go and examine these <hes> these ships. What does it look like down there to things really strike you diving on these ships one is how huge they're are there four hundred fifty feet long and they take a whole dive just to swim around the outside of the ship he'd ship and they're incredibly beautiful because of all the marine life that has started to grow row on them? There's all kinds of nemeses that look like flowers and starfish and crabs and codfish and scoping and all different kinds of things growing on them so they're really beautiful dive sites but then you see eighty something that reminds you that they're also were graves so three three the ships sailors died on them <hes> when they were sunk and you'll come across things like a toothbrush or shoe lying on the Deck Gore in one of the washrooms and you can't help think you know was a sailor wearing this when the ship was sunk and it's a it's a bit eerie. What was the first personal effect that you saw when you went down I I saw somebody shoe in one of the Washrooms next to where the sinks and the toilet tour like everything stopped for me when I saw that the enjoyment of the dive and all the beauty and all that it just stopped and all all I can think of was the poor guys were on the ship when it was how is is the navy has the military going to deal with these very explosive these dangerous relics to be honest? I'm not an expert. <hes> what I can't tell Oh years. Most of these shelves would not have had the fuse inserted into it yet. They did that <hes> shortly before they were gonNA fire them. Most of the shells probably wouldn't be an immediate threat where the show is going to be taken too. I think what what's happening is the navy is GonNa lift the shells up and they'll take them ashore about an hour out of Saint John's. There's an <hes> military rifle range and I think they're air. The police will actually use a small explosive charge to blow up the shelf. It really does sound like a a museum down there in a way and I know this might sound like an odd question but is there any part of you that is going to miss those shells down there well. Yes I guess the answer is yes because they're part of the story and they make it a little more real diving on those rex now to be honest. I'll be quite thankful to get rid of explosive off the REX because I don't want to be blowed up when I go diving but it was from the war and those ships were armed for their defense and that was part of the story so it is exciting to see the shells when you're diving along on the deck or something something but all it would take would be some person to decide they wanna take home a souvenir and they could put the whole family at risk and that's just not worth it Mr Burgess. It was good to talk to you today. Thanks so much for your time Oh glad. Ah Gladys Donkey Robin Take Care Bye bye bye. Neil Burgess is the president of the Shipwreck Preservation Society of Newfoundland in Labrador. We reached him and Flat Rock Newfoundland. A Japanese car rental company is asking its customers to please also take its cars for a spin an official with oryx found it necessary to tell the newspaper Asahi Shimbun quote we believe it's best for our cars to be used for driving unquote but that belief apparently isn't shared by what oryx describes as several percent of its renters who travel no distance at all an or exa stats seemed to match those of other companies providing short term rentals for sometimes thirty minutes or L._S.. Japan's Leading Car Share Company Times twenty four surveyed customers to find out what they're doing instead and before you go jumping to conclusions they were not at all shifting into something more comfortable to pursue what Meatloaf described described as paradise by the Dashboard Lights instead of company phone people paid for a moment of peace and privacy before returning to the heavy traffic of modern life. The rental cars were used for naps chats and doing business on the phone without bothering others which is almost as polite as the people who wanted somewhere to eat where they wouldn't have to chew in some strangers face and I think everyone would applaud the customers surveyed by another rental company those who said they used rental cars to squeeze into Halloween Wean costumes and to practice wrapping they they did the Barbecue circuit and headed to Parliament Hill for a rare summer meeting. The members of the Commons Public Safety Committee gathered this afternoon. The emergency meeting was called to discuss the desjardins Jordan data breach last month. The Quebec based bank said the data of two point seven million of its customers had been compromised data includes names addresses birthdates social insurance numbers and information about transaction habits the company announced today. It's come up with a quote permanent solution to protect customers from future identity theft but M._p.'s still had plenty of questions. John McKay is the liberal M._p.. WHO's the head of that committee? We reached him partway through the session Russian in Ottawa Mr Mackay questions. Do you want answered at today's meeting well. I think the fundamental question is how does a two point seven million pieces of data get into the hands of criminal element seems pretty fundamental that doc win Canadians give data <hes> sensitive data to an institution. They should have a reasonable expectation that their privacy is virtually absolute. What's your biggest concern for? All these people who have had their personal personal data leaked that somehow somewhere sometime <hes> that data will be used in a manner that is against their best interests and <hes> I and it is just out there and really you know one really knows when it'll be action. You've heard from the R._C._M._p.. And C._S._C. So far the intelligence agency what if they had to say well the R._C._M._p.. You know <hes> says well. This was being handled by other levels police services services but we coordinate with them and I mean not not great comfort to those who are very worried but this particular instance <hes> C._S._C. talks with the protocols that <hes> they have and the regular communications they have with financial institutions again all well and good but not a great deal comfort to the individuals before as many people might say that this really is an issue for the security agencies. What role do you see politicians here playing I think calling <hes> agencies and entities I used to account and where the regulatory gaps to start to fill them in? I think this is an absolutely appropriate role for parliamentary committee to call in the various witnesses and and start to start the process of calling them calling those agencies to account right because the president of Deja. Dan says that this emergency meeting is too soon. It's it's happening too quickly given that. There's currently a criminal investigation underway. What do you say to that? I don't think <hes> any meetings such as this is too soon. In fact arguably it's too late right and I don't know that it's actually up to the officer any officer their yard and to tell M._p.'s what <hes> timing should <hes> shocker. What do you mean when you say it is too late? Well interestingly for the last six months <hes> we we have been studying. This very issue is already by financial institutions did raise the a lot of concerns. <hes> among the committee members things that frankly I didn't know and I'm pretty sure most of the committee members didn't know and we starting to realize realize the inherent vulnerability of our data. Some of your conservative colleagues were floating the idea of issuing new social insurance numbers to customers affected by this breach. How feasible do you think that option this good question and I would know the answer because they have a bit better except that I'm talking to you and that person is making the presentation as we speak? I will let you go but I just on that. I mean what is your initial will thought about that because we certainly spoke to somebody who was affected by this breach last week and he said more than just giving us social insurance numbers he would like to see something like biometric numbers because these nine little numbers that we have on these simple cards were so so far behind other countries when it comes to security. I don't think it wrong certainly the same card if you look at it is a very weak piece of identity document and <hes> well. I am attracted to the superficial appeal appeal of reissuing you know what are the two point nine million social insurance numbers. I think that it's <hes> maybe problematic and they actually create more problems. <hes> than that solves. What do you mean by? It might create more problems than solutions well then you'd have to social insurance numbers for every individual the numbers don't actually die of probably will raise red flags. Date is a problematic solution. We don't know yet where this data has landed but say it lands in the hands of criminal elements. What's your biggest fear here well? It is a very big fear. I very legitimate fear he actually be realized it can be used ways that are way beyond my mind and possibly your imagining someone can imitate who we are. Then <hes> we have serious problems. The banks will rush to say our banking system is safe. Canadians need not worry but has this made you rethink things well. We've been rethinking things the last six months it is a worry <hes> it is a critical point of infrastructure in our nation and <hes> the data in the hands <hes> both state and non-state actors can be manipulated in ways that is against <hes> not only individual interest not even corporate interests but national interest so this is a very very serious issue but you're not at the point yet where you're going to store your money under your pillow case. The Mathis is looking for two. You're right now. No I think we're way beyond that point but it does say call into question the viability of <hes> open banking which is being floated by Google and others. I think this kind of incident makes everybody <hes> look again at the security of financial transactions Mr Mikhail. Let you get back to your meeting. Thank you very much taking the time to talk to us. Thank you bye-bye John. McKay is a liberal M._p.. Andy chairs the House of Commons Public Safety Committee. We spoke to him in Ottawa. <music> Somali Canadian journalist Ho Dan Eliah wanted to change people's minds about Somalia by changing the stories they heard rather than tales of conflict famine or despair. She highlighted the beauty of Somalia. She told those stories on her Youtube Channel called integration TV in twenty seventeen metro morning host Bat Galloway spoke to hold on an ally about a recent visit to Somalia amid a drought she had interviewed a mother who's four year old child had died of measles to be honest with you what really amazed music that despite that she was so grateful still just to be alive and to have her other children with her and I think that's the resilience of Somalis is that you don't despite the harsh conditions there in the whether they're facing. They're still such catch faithful people to life goes on Rosa resilience come from. Do you think I think it's faith. I think is them trusting. They've lived off the environment so long nomads that they expect hardship. They know that sufferings part of life in tomorrow's a new day. Why did you WanNa go and make these videos well about two years ago? I really got interested in discovering Somalia and learning about my past and going back to the small town I was born in so I just really just fell in love with a Culture Turin and the people in the way they think in the way of life and it's a lot different than what the media portrays which different than than what it is that we are seeing well when I started integration T._V.. That's exactly what it was about was changing the image of Somalis around the world and particularly declaring Canada also but what I realize was that in Somalia it's a beautiful country. I mean the nature not countries just amazing and there's just I think there's just because of the conflict people have forgotten that nation and hopefully that's that's. That's not the narrative that people know people know of of of will people call failed state. I mean a constant war. We now have a drought again where we're twenty million people are at risk of starvation. How do you balance you know? The beauty of the nature with what else is happening there which which is very real crisis of the countries in well. I always say that stories are always two sides right. I mean you you whatever you focus on is what you will share and the Western media tends to always focus on the suffering of that nation and the problems and the bombings but people are still living and like I said the mother story is no different than the suicide bomber. Who's doing terrible things I mean if we share the human stories I think Somalia would become more than hashtags but she for this drought? I mean there's a Hashtag love army for Somalia right now. There's race two million dollars with Ben Stiller and all these Hollywood celebrities and all these young Somalis now use another Hashtag Somali called our what I'll and these are movements that are happening online because people wanna see humanity. They're tired of the one-sided reporting of people that was Somali Canadian in journalist Hodan Malaya's speaking with C._B._C.. In two thousand seventeen. She and her husband were among twenty. Six people killed Friday when terrorist bomb to hotel in Kismayo Somalia <music> <music> the Alan Turing is the father of modern computing. He was also a big part of the allies victory in the Second World War through his is cracking of the enigma code sadly instead of receiving praise. The British government prosecuted Mr Turing for being gay. He took his own life after a forced chemical castration but today the Bank of England announced it will recognize Mr Turing. During achievements his portrait grace do fifty pound banknote here's Bank of England governor Mark Carney on the B._b._c. then the war two years early saving millions of lives beyond that he's the father of modern computing. He's the father of artificial intelligence virtually everything we use today in our day to day lives has some is derived from <hes> from turns genius and he did all that within four decades and as well on top of it <hes> he's. He's an individual federal who unfortunately was <hes> suffered great tragedy was persecuted during his lifetime and I think the response of the country to that also shows the value of this country which are which are exemplary that's Bank of England Governor Mark Carney explaining why Alan Turing image will be on the new fifty pound note in two thousand nine as it happens spoke with computer scientists John Graham coming he started a petition demanding the British government apologize to Mr Turing from from our archives. Here's part of that interview yeah so I wouldn't cheering was homosexual and he was cl- amounted and in nineteen fifty to his house was buckled and it was bevelled by an acquaintance of he's boyfriend and cheering went to the playthrough pool votary and during the investigation that came out it was he was homosexual and he was then arrested and tried and prosecuted for Gross Indecency which was the ten us for private homosexual act and what was the what the outcome of that prosecution whether he had a choice of either being sent to prison or he could take sort of cure for child which would be given eastern estrogen injections for a year we idea was that would reduce the veto and he would be. I guess less gay in some way and the outcome of that was he did have eastern injections and that would of course team you know some sort of feminizing effect honey which is growing breasts and two years off conviction. He committed suicide by apparently depend apple in potassium cyanide invitees. I can understand why you wanted to start this position. So you'll become a petition though and the petitioners as per what will the petition is off kings that the British government apologize for the treatment of Alan cheering and really my gold now was say I'm insuring isn't well-known in the U._k.. Partly because he died right so young and I wanted to raise his name in the national consciousness and also I think that it's important for us today to make statements where we do stock and say this was wrong. We shouldn't have done it and we won't do this. Sort taken from two thousand nine. That's British computer scientists John Graham coming and guest host Robert Harris Mr Graham coming successfully lobbied the British government to apologize to Alan Turing and today the Bank of England announced that Mr Turing shoring will be featured on the new fifty pound note <music> in twenty sixteen Italian prosecutors announced they captured Africa's most wanted people smuggler they called Madani mirrored the ALC- capone of the desert and called his arrest a blowed human trafficking then came the reports and investigation showing that they had the wrong man on Friday. The courts finally agreed it was a case of mistaken can identity and met honeybear. Hey was acquitted but our next guest is there that it still unclear what happens to him next. MERRIN ESTAFANOS is a Swedish Eritrean journalist. She was one of the first people to call attention to Mr Barros innocence. We reached Ms Estafanos today. In Amsterdam Miss Estafanos met honey bear. Hey spent more than three years in jail. Does his release feel like victory to you. Not really the the irony. This person has been suffering for skiing yours in two months to prove that he is not the person that they think he is that he's not mannheimer that he's <hes> Matana Bor is the author Suomi any evidence as proven finally we were thinking justice was served but unfortunately <hes> that same day justice was denied again where he's not what expressions expulsion center which is deportation senator awaiting in deportation to be determined <hes> so it's not really freedom for him because he's moved from one prison on as a prison many European papers or saying this is one of the worst cases of mistaken identity they have seen in in some time. I wonder if you could just back up and tell us a little bit of that story. Mister Birthday was of course the victim of mistaken identity. That's been proven now but for three years who did authorities claim he actually was. They claimed that they had gotten Madania. <hes> Barrett was wanted by Italians accusation against him for the bow tragedies that happened on October three two thousand sixteen whereas one hundred sixty eight the trans drowned in London Russo plus dispersants smuggler have interviewed him before she called me had smuggled over thirteen thousand futures in just two years so for the owners of course he was wanted by Raniero can governments these these two men <hes> Medani married and Madani Berry they obviously share a first name and they're both Airtran but after that really the similarities stop the fellow who was put in prison was a former Milkman and a farmer area yeah that's that's the weird thing because of all honeys very common name which means Salvatore so very common name and then when you look at them you know they don't even look like as much older orders on him probably ten years older than he and the real smugglers where he talks that he grew up in Iran area. There is an accent different accent resent. Better is the from the capital city. Even the voice doesn't even add up so there was so many evidence is worth a smuggler himself called the New Yorker and did an interview. The smugglers wife gave <hes>. She testified that it was not her husband. He's mother came from Your Trendy D._N._A.. Testing I went to again our against Swedish T._v.. And prove that smuggler is actually leaving three leaks in a luxurious tracing combined Gunda of refugees our tortured by actual smugglers testified and they were called Liar's. So how do you explain explain this then because this was a joint Italian and British operation to arrest this fellow who's now known to be innocent but how did they get it so wrong. well as I said it was Sweden who was was asked to wiretap the wife they were wired up king parents following her Internet activities so <hes> the meat monmouth honey burner happened to to write Faron vase book which was a coincidence island was trying correct as her <hes>. He sent out a facebook message saying he likes her. She looks good on she was saying. I'm married so this conversation Sweden told her husband. Do you think that part of the reason why the Italians took so long to admit that they had the wrong man is because at first this was presented as kind of a brilliant coup that they had caught this notorious people smuggler and at the time there were people migrants dying and end Olsen. It looked like the solution might be to target the human traffickers and so do you think they were so embarrassed when they find out that they actually got the the wrong mound of course there were very embarrassed but they could wash that harms also like the Roman prosecutors actually wrote reports saying this is wrong Kherson so but instead so they were all silent walking that somehow they will get a conviction so that they don't get embarrassed. What kind of toll has this whole ordeal taken on him and his family? He's very depressed. <hes> he has given up on the European justice than she feels that have something they don't want to all of this his traumatized and depressed. Do you know what's going to the happen to Mister barone now. Will he be able to seek asylum somewhere. That's idea I will take <hes> she weeks for him released from the deportation center and then he will you'll be asked ripped the country so then you'll have to ask asylum with A._T.. Or someone else <unk> throwaways over Norway we'll see what happens you have spent three years calling attention to Mr Bear Hayes case of mistaken identity. Why was the so important due to you? <hes> for many reasons one is that its own person being prosecuted for crime have nothing to do secondly. It's a crime that he's being accused is where three hundred sixty of the people died and I was yours and it's weeks with a survivor subset ship rake and it's it's just makes me really angry that in the name of the three Hundred Sixteen Eurotransit drone in Italy your prosecuting in another innocent and your trend and an insult does that died so it has a long road. I'm going to push for an inquiry all contracts and a Chevy on the prosecutor was abuse of our wiretapping journalists translators <hes> misys defense. Thank you for your time today. Appreciate it. Thank you for having bye bye bye. Merrin estafanos is a swedish-eritrean journalist and refugee advocate. We reached her in Amsterdam <music> in in this corner you in not corner dot one and all over that one weighing heavily on your mind black mold in the battle of human human versus fungus. It seems like the advantage should be ours after all we have brains and dehumidifiers but somehow no matter how you fight it. The mold always returns. There's a simple reason for that which comes as little consolation black mold is extremely difficult to kill not just on earth but in space to the International Space Station has an ongoing problem with mold which might seem weird but the I._S._S. is an enclosed space and it gets damp that means astronauts have to clean constantly to keep it from spreading which got scientists wondering about future space missions and whether mold would survive the radiation on the outside of a spacecraft to find out researchers with the German Aerospace Center blasted a common black mold cold cold aspergillus Niger with radiation in the words of the lead researcher quote stupid amounts of radiation. How stupid well radiation is measured in units called Grey Humans get radiation sickness when exposed two point five five gray and die when exposed to five gray these researchers exposed the black mold too much larger doses of two different kinds of radiation five hundred to one thousand gray and it survived that could mean mold would survive five a trip to another planet? One Astra biologist even wonders if it's a parent ability to survive in space means it came from space regardless. We now know that mold is tougher than we thought tougher than we are in fact so it's no wonder it keeps defeating our attempts comes to destroy it. We keep trying new methods of attack but we can't break the mold. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on C._B._C..