The Rodney Dangerfield Problem
It is Friday. May Eight th twenty twenty my name. Is Daniel Baiter? This is the android central podcasts. This week joining us again. Back with some art are you. Are you in the Polar Vortex Jerry? I don't even not even know it reached that far south. Wasn't that a movie with Tom. Hanks yes. I'm pretty sure Tom. Hanks's run the gamut of every weather related movie in history. But Are you? Are you leaving freezing right now? Because its freezing here in. Toronto is like seventy yesterday. And it's like seventy below today. I think that's unacceptable world. Come on already dealing with enough as it is. And I'm so pleased to welcome. Back Martin. Bart's tech alter is as you may know him on the Internet Back to the show. Martin how are you man? I'm doing great. No polar vortex over here. We have very good western Berlin. I don't actually think you've ever had a polar vortex in Europe. That's I don't think that's the thing that you have. I remember one so it could be possibly it means it's basically when the jet stream brings a bunch of Arctic air and has it sit on top of your face for a couple of weeks and then we get unseasonably cold weather in May where it snows in New England. And I think it's the coldest it's ever been in parts of Alabama right now in. May It's it's very strange if you WANNA learn more about it. The Washington Post had a really good explainer on what it is but I wanted to ask you. How's how's life in Berlin? I feel like you guys must be out of the worst of it. Since you had a quick A relatively quick flattening of the curve over there. Yeah I think compared to the rest of the world We're doing okay People certainly don't seem to be too stressed. About Dependent mckinney more. People are out in about a stores have started opening. So you can actually unless the story is very big you can actually just go in and and Shop you have to wear masks In Public Transport and in stores but life is slowly returning to normal. So not too bad. And what does that look like? From a just from a bureaucracy perspective are people still being tested. Is there still community spread or is that largely finished now? People are definitely still being tested. I think Germany has one of the highest testing rates per capita of I think almost all the countries in the world at least the big developed ones and there. They continued to do quite a lot of testing but they weren't any huge Problems with the healthcare system. The there were no big spikes and the emergency rooms so generally speaking the healthcare system didn't collapse really anywhere so I think in general life is just slowly returning to normal. There's testing and that's really good news. It's quite stark seeing the The number of cases in verses its per capita death rate compared to other countries like Italy Spain the US Canada basically every other country in the world's Germany seems to have done a really good job. Keeping everybody your most people who was infected with the virus alive which is a testament to the healthcare system for sure. Yeah and I think it's there's two factors the one that you've said there's the healthcare system was working quite well. Nothing the other one is that they did a lot of testing and they did a lot of contact. Tracing quite early so probably. The reported number of cases is actually is way closer to the reality than in most countries. So you just see like you see lower rate because you just have a more more accurate number That you comparing to the number of cases is more accurate. That's actually a really good point because the numbers that we see when we go to our local newspaper websites and check the daily case rates. It's it's basically reflective of just how many how many tests been able to perform rather than the reality of how many people are infected except in some countries like Germany and South Korea. So Amazing Amazing News. I'm really glad to hear that everybody's most people are doing well and that you're safe and healthy. I wanted to bring you on the show. Because you're celebrating. Something Pretty Momentous this week you launched your first. App called crowd and it is a i. Guess a crowd source smartphone review evaluation quite QNA Faq B. R. B. W. T. F. You know APP and I. I would love to hear a bit more about it because it's something you discuss the last time you were on the show in January and I guess back then it was still in sort of earlier Alpha stage. But you've now launched an open Beta. Anybody can downloaded with an and request a an invite code so tell us about what crowd is and why you think it's important for the market right now. The crowd is It's an android APP for an hour going to bring it to us on the web at some point as well but it's an android happened. I guess the the concept is to give Tech enthusiasts black ourselves a place where they can review a the gadgets that they own. That's not only for smartphones. You can also review. I don't know what your Vr headset. Your drone your Google home Stuff so you can review all the gadgets that you own. We've developed a whole Mechanics how reviews work on platform as as opposed to other crowdsourced review platforms. Because we think that they're quite clunky and we don't realize how they work and of course you can Find a lot of reviews from from other tech enthusiasts. We've been out for about a a week and that the response has I think has been overwhelmingly a positive. I mean if I if I expected X. amount of excitement we got tax so people have been really really Excited about it and I guess the the concept of of crowd is that there really isn't Currently I think a good place for for for tech enthusiasts to foot for the community that we have to kind of Voice their opinion and to to let them have an avenue where they can review the products that that the that the own end and to vote about which products they like in which ones they don't like and we would like to build that community for them. So I just wanted to publicly hold you accountable for my inevitable job loss. Because this is completely unacceptable. Martin I don't. I don't like where this is going. No I think I think it's amazing. I think the democratization of product evaluation needed to happen. It's happened through the comments and through forums. Those as you said are credibly. Clunky what was the I mean you? You mentioned that previous examples of this were really bad. But what was the impetus for building this particular product in this way as a mobile APP rather than a mobile website or sort of as a some other form that could've taken On on maybe a different platform so the reason we chose to go with a android is simply because most of my viewers are using android phones. I think it's about eighty percent and obviously our audiences are first user. Basil just made sense to develop something for the majority of my audience But yeah so what we wanted to achieve of. This was the the original idea for crowd. L. Standing in a store trying to buy a product specifically an ST card for my camera. And trying to figure out if like which one of these St Cards. I have to buy. That would be fast enough for my camera and it took me. I don't know twenty thirty minutes of research store on my phone. I was just so annoyed why I couldn't ask people who own this camera would have been such an easy easy answer and this is kind of where we realized that. There's there's a lot missing from the review experience online. For the one part I think Professional reviewers like yourselves or like youtubers. I don't do many reviews but youtubers like me. We can only cover so many products are we can cover the latest iphones delayed. Samsung phones. Delayed US job. Bre Headsets and whatever but there's a lot that we can't properly cover And we also thought that the the people can cover it so the actual owners and the community. Their current is so clunky. Like if you go if you go to an Amazon store listing for example. You have five thousand reviews. You're never going to get what those five thousand people are saying. Because it's just five thousand little pieces of taxi it's never to. Never GonNa read. It doesn't add up to anything. You can't easily scan it. You can't interact with it instantly. It's I feel like it's a very old school and solution. Basically just give people an open field and then let them do whatever so what we want to do is to break review down to its core components and to make those really easy to both supply and and to to define what you're looking for so we have currently two main things you can do on the APP one. You can give a star ratings on different features of a product so for example depending on what product is that say you have a VR headset? You can read it Based on very specific criteria that has relative. Vr headsets. Like how accurate does the Han tracking? How accurate is the head tracking if it has a battery? How good is the battery? How good is the field of you? And you can rate these It becomes quantifiable. So so you can see from the five thousand users how many people thought that The field of view was great. How many of them had durability issues? How many of them thought that. The cable broke easily and so on and so forth. And so you get a very quick nice overview at where having more people actually makes the review experience better and the to go back to my original question you can ask people you can ask owners real questions and a the what we working up to to get you. A answers Hopefully are are to get at least ten answers From owners an under a minute so basically you can ask. Is this the card fast enough for my camera? You send it off than the owners get notification and right from the notification they can just tap yes or no on the notification. They don't even have to open the APP. And this gives you such quick feedback. We've actually test this. We now have We were very selective on of who we've let into the APP so far so we have a fairly small user base We have we already have forty thousand answers and people are like incredibly engaged an incredibly quick to answer and and it really works that if you pick a product that This relatively small user base actually owns Then then you you can. You can really just ask a question and the answer comes back you can just see the answers pouring in said really makes it easier for you to make a purchase decision to decide what's good and what's not and this way. We hope that we'll be able to cover all the products that are on the market. And not just you know whatever is worth reviewing for a professional reviewer. So I'm curious what you've seen. I mean you've done reviews but you're you also watch. I assume a lot of youtube videos of product you read. I assume a lot of quote professional reviews although a lot of our listeners may dispute that we are professionals they take issue with what we say time which is fine. Because they're they're reviews are subjective and and that's the way it'd be but how are you seeing the priorities of your user base right now as difference to what you typically see from somebody who maybe does this for a living and may be a little bit if not jaded than than somewhat ambivalent about what they're reviewing because they do it so often? I mean one of the clear things that we see is that that there's there's one more thing that I think. Professional reviewers are typically not very well not very good at doing and that is giving you a long-term perspective about a product so there are these like after the buzz and and everybody calls it something else you know like re review one year later or whatever but it's it's hard to get a consistently clear idea about how a product has aged and and we are coming to to build up more features in the future that that make it really obvious whether a product is not just interesting as it launches but whether it gets good software support whether it breaks whether it is durable whether it is still a good investment later down the line so I think that's that's one thing and then the second thing is I feel like I feel like we tech reviewers. We live in a little bit of a bubble and we we kind of parrot each other. I think a lot of it even with the best intentions. You basically think that the community things a certain thing. Something is important. Another thing is not important and then I think we all just assumed that this is relevant and now we go along in these These are generally assumed directions. And one of the things. I hope that the community will show is what the community really cares about. So like you'll actually be able to see okay. Which aspect of a product is important to the People? In which aspect is not. I have a very different approach to reviews than say Jerry. I have a very different approach to reviews than say Andrew or Alex or anybody else on my team. I love that it does come down to individual preference but you know what I've always found really interesting especially about these umbrella. Brands like android central. Is that when I personally review a Galaxy S. twenty on a c? I'm personally reviewing it. But it comes to represent the entire brands opinion of this product. What I what I love about crowd. Is that eventually with enough data points. It doesn't matter because it just kind of equals out over time right if you are able to break down. These certain categories. Somebody who really really cares about. The camera will be able to filter for devices that prioritize camera features are particular camera features over battery life for display size or something like that. What's the evolution of the community or or the APP the community within the APP? Say a year from now once you hit a critical mass of users. What would your ideal relationship be with that community? And how do you see that may be impacting? The the way that a typical android central reader or youtube watcher will will make buying decisions if crowd gets large enough that it's also just a defacto choice in how people decide what to buy what what what. I'd like crowd to be in a year. I have many ideas and many wishes and many dreams. We'll see which of them actually come true but The first thing I would love to first of all build up a really good product database. That would be kind of the the number one step and we are actually working. This very hard I think one of the core like kind of infrastructure layer things that is missing from the product review and the product buying and discussion. Experience is to just have a really nice free easily understandable well categorized reporter. Terry all the products where you can see you know when it was released What the SPECS are what other devices? It is connected to. I always have this pet peeve that no maybe some of the devices like phones they have like you know. You have sites like You know. Gsm Marina or whatever that have an okay database. Actually pretty decent database. But I'd just like to have an even better database and for all the gadgets As a as a foundation and I see this as a as a wikipedia like project Especially based on on the feedback from our users. So far we have since we've launched the APP We create our product database manually. So my co founder and I we just input things into databases find images but we've received I think while over eight hundred product requests from people so far and we have people who are like very actively now monitoring whenever a new phone comes out whenever new earphones from a particular brand Kamat. And whatever so we plan to to you know together with the community at build out a system that where where this stays up to date and relevant and and well connected 'em and then We would actually not really like to replace professional reviews. I think you are hinting at this. A little bit but really we think that it would be a really nice compliment to it So We want to create two things that I think would be really useful for For publishes like yourself one is kind of to to give the the ability to expose our day die into let's say embedded in an article of yours or in your forum where you can for example say. Hey we're doing a review Here's our opinion of it. And by the way you can see you can see what the community thinks of it. And then this could be embedded into either articles of publishers or on posts or on social media basically to become like a source of truth. For what the community thinks of any particular aspect of any particular product? Then we Would like to Go past reviews so we would also like to let people like we'd like to turn this APP into a sort of news feed almost so you you you Pick which devices you own. What product categories? You're interested in and then you could bring in articles from let's say android central or or whatever publication into newsfeed. We already have a sort of newsfeed And then you could. You could follow stuff there And we would like to people also express their opinion on products that they don't own yet Not In a form of a review but in a form of let's say You can vote on. How exciting you think newly released product is or if there's a leak would you like this or would you like that you like curve screens and general or not That sort of stuff so a lot of news and community engagement stuff and then hopefully making that data really well-structured and really Easy to digest and also to to Exposed to external places. You can you can see it. Not just on crowd but you can see it on in an article somewhere and so on. I'm not sure if I've answered the question but those are th that's amazing. I mean that's really ambitious. I'd love to learn. I mean this will obviously play out and we'll have you on the show again once the Wants a bit more mature and perhaps once it's public but I you know before we move on I just want to ask do you have monetization plans if If if you can talk about them like what would your ideal way be of earning money from this as it ad based as it partnering with? Oem's is it sponsored. Placements is it. You know all number of is charging for access to the API so that you can embed widgets on webpages. Do you need me to be your business manager because I could help joking but all of these like there are so many potential ways to make money on an APP like this and and yet it's so intrinsically difficult to make money from any APP That I I wonder what your what your current plans are for that. We've had all the all the same ideas that you've just listed here And honestly I wouldn't really pick one. That will be the one that we go with because honestly we'd have to Simply try what works what doesn't work and and and we really want to make sure that of course. This is a community approach so we really want to make sure that the community feels like they're not being taken advantage of or or not Selling their private purchasing data to whoever or we really want to make sure that they feel like our monetization model doesn't hurt them. And and hopefully factually makes makes life better for them. But we we're we're playing around with all of those options and one one of the easiest initial thoughts that we have and again It'S UP FOR DEBATE. An for testing But but the initial idea that we have is that people have already asked us why there isn't a purchase button in the APP. So let's say you find the perfect pair of headphones You've gone through all the reviews now. He's decided that this is what what you want. Why not you know. Give you a a a a place to link to. I don't know Amazon or your local retailer and then you have an affiliate Business Model So that could be a base because that that is actually something people have already requested. So we're we're looking at it and we'll see we'll see how that goes and then we're also looking at a lot of other monetization methods we're thinking off some kind of premium subscription Possibly if if people feel that the That that the would want to support the community and they would want to avoid having other monetization. What else that as an option at honestly it's all on the our. Our current goal is just to make sure that we have we nailed the engagement and the the the product review experience and will will Think about desertion afterwards. Yeah so where can people find the APP and get an invite and all that good stuff you can go to crowd dot com so cr are. Wd Dot Com. That's just crowd with two ours and they'll be downloading for android there if you're an IOS user. There's the sign up link for waiting there and to get an invite. It's also on the crowd website but crowd dot com slash. Invite is is an easy way to to find it and basically concept with the invite system is that we wanted to make sure that the people who join the community at least in the early stages are a little bit vetted. We don't want just anybody to come. In and spam stuff end and write reviews of products that That don't know much about so. There's kind of knowledge quiz. You actually have to just push it out today than is Friday. When we record this podcast. It's actually people really to like it just as a quiz in general. That's so funny it's like an it's basically like a A little test people like it because it proves to you that they're worthy of being on your platform. Yeah it's hopefully good for everybody but there's a it's we just tried it out today and we plan to refresh it every couple of days. So the questions are always current and stuff and The concept is that there are twenty questions you have to get at least fifteen of them right in five minutes and if you do will email you a code with an invite. We'll email union by. Why appreciate that? I didn't have to do the test. I feel like I cheated. Influence our man no. I've never been caught one of those before but I know Jerry's an influencer word. You may be a bad influence. You're still an influencer. WanNa shift the topic a little bit. Just this got my mind thinking to something. I wanted to talk about later in the show but I wanNA push it up because you were mentioning that. There's this there's this inherent to the way that professional and I keep I don't WanNa you can't see me quoting. But I will continue to say professional reviewers and how we decide what to review and the industry in many ways. The reviews industry in many ways is broken. And it's a it's broken in ways that I know it. It rewards access that rewards reinforcements rewards bigger brands with bigger marketing budgets. It it does all the things that are gross and you know we play part where where part of that structure where we reinforce the system because we obviously want to be given access to the embargoes that other sites do because you lose out if you don't but what you mentioned is that it really does lower or suppress the number of devices products from smaller companies from companies. That are that don't have the same marketing budgets that or just products. That aren't as North American focused at least for for sites like ours that have a very large. Us readership and I talk about this. In context of catalysts report that was issued this morning about the top ten global smartphones in Q. One so this is between January first and March thirty first sold all over the world and while this is just one report from one company it sheds light on just how different the market is from. How perhaps we internally think of it and how. We discuss it publicly on the site the best-selling Iphone as the best selling phone in the world in Q. Was The iphone eleven with about eighteen million units. That's not a surprise. What was the surprise? Was that the number two. The second best mark selling smartphone was the read me note. Eight and eight t from Xiaomi and combined with the red meat not a pro which also sold around six million units. That's fourteen million units of a smartphone. That really most people outside of India and perhaps parts of Europe have never heard of and we'll never get a chance to buy at it just speaks to how different the market is in various in various countries. And how much influence a company like me in in certain parts of the world and how little influence they have in others other other interesting notes. The galaxy fifty-one one from Samsung was the third selling smartphone in the world and Q. On with around six million units Just over six million six and a half million the galaxy eight ten s which is a budget phone around one hundred and fifty dollars The Galaxy Eight twenty s galaxy as zero one These are all phones that are sort of trickling into North America. Europe because there's just so much price sensitivity right now around flagships and we we've spoken about how five G. has necessitated this massive year-over-year jump in in smartphone prices. But I'd love to hear your take on this Martin because You know Germany just as market is a very different one from where I am and where Jeremy Jerry is so what. What do you see as the dominant narrative around smartphones today in Western Europe? Who HAS A big question? I I mean definitely. Europe is like one of the big trends Europe seeing the rise of show me I think they just became the leading brand in Spain and they're think already number number four and western Europe I read on a great side cold android central Dot Com. And so that that is that is definitely a big trend. I I think the the new iphones have been doing really well here But but yeah the the. The mid range phones are are. Are seeing a resurgence for sure. The a-series galaxy phones. I've seen a lot of people with Pixel threes which This is the first time I see normal. People with Pixel phones in Germany. Didn't see any any flexing pixels before unless they were gadget nerds. So yeah I think I think the mid ranges and they I guess with the IPHONE. Se It's going to be the same same thing. We're going to see a lot of entering funds coming Jerry. I mean you've talked a lot about this. This trend and the necessary change that We're going to see Samsung's obviously trying harder than any other company to bring its mid range of budget phones into new markets to offset some of the price increases that the galaxy s twenty series has. We've just this week. We saw the galaxy fifty-one launched in the US. Widely the galaxy seventy one five G. is launching in June. The very cheap budget phones like the galaxy a zero one the Galaxy a eleven eight twenty one. Those are all coming to the US at some point this year What's your take on on? Unlike the the upper limit on what most people are going to be willing to spend on a phone now that there's so much pressure on their budgets you know thanks to the pandemic I think the biggest thing there is people are not going to buy right now. I think that's GonNa be the standout saying you know I. I love the see companies. Big and small offer good products for less money. That's that's really my in. You know that's my thing but right now when money is tight I think the first thing you have to consider that people just aren't going to buy at all. How much is this is GonNa roll over? When we don't have twenty million unemployed people in North America and they're you know we do have more. Disposable income are people still going to be value conscious because of what they've recently been through. I think that's a bigger story and I think the answer is yes and Samsung is going to realize that it needs to offer four hundred dollar smartphones seven hundred dollars smartphones in tandem with eleven hundred dollars smartphones. Or IT'S GONNA lose a lot of market share to the first Asian company that can get in huge with carriers to make sure their phone is on every shelf in every store so this brings us to you know back to the story about Pixel for a we We're going to jump into the delay in the android eleven Beta next. But you know I can't. We can't talk about it without talking about the phone. That's supposed to be announced. Her was supposed to be announced at Google. Io which was supposed to happen next week We're seeing so many leaks suggesting that the pixel four is imminent right. We've heard this over and over again that it may happen as soon as next week or by the end of. May It'll be in stores by the beginning of June It's possible that it'll be announced. The day that the Beta drops them on June third. But that's three ninety nine price point anecdotally we heard that was the real benefit of the. Pixel three right is that gave you ninety percent of the Pixel three and in some ways it was a better experience on the Pixel three for half the price and that seems to be what people are willing to spend right. Now I agree I I think the for a I mean. We've basically seen some of those photos of the boxes. Are you know. They're not sitting in a warehouse there in the back of best buy so the phone is the launch is imminent And I really think it's GonNa come in at the same price as the three just from some rumors. I've heard if so that's that's a huge win and we're going to see you know some financial success as far as you know it sales so you've also made it clear on the website that you'd like Google to experiment with Building its own chips that it might be a better idea down the road to kind of own the whole stack the way that apple does the meantime. Why DOESN'T GOOGLE PARTNER WITH MEDIA TECH TO PRODUCE? Pixel that is considerably cheaper than the ones that they produce today even potentially cheaper than the than the three or four a series expand on that. Thought because you know Mediatek just announced a newer updated version of the density. One thousand flagship. Sec that they announced I think it was in January at cs but there are no phones at currently support it and the the older Mediatek chips are not great there. Pretty far behind qualcomm In terms of performance to to price ratio right now all we can do is look at it on paper because as you said there there are no phones with a democracy. You know I don't know. Did the update the numbers? It's still the density one thousand density one thousand plus it supports a hundred and forty four hertz displays and faster ram configurations but otherwise. It's the same chip. Yeah see on paper. That chip is going to perform. You know in in the same ballpark as the latest snapdragon in some places it. It does things a little better in other places. It's not going to be good but it's going to be you know relatively equal on paper. I you know we need to see it in a phone to know how true that is. And if Google is building their own chip that they they need to find ways to move away from qualcomm for the our F- Stack and all the other things or ways to integrate qualcomm 's our f into a custom chip right. Now is a great time to try the MEDIATEK. A six your phone will be three hundred dollars cheaper. It can still have five G. And if everything mediatek says is true which is a big if it's going to perform just as well a pixel five we. We are under the assumption that it's going to have a snapdragon seven sixty five in which I think is a smart move but maybe a smarter move would have been have a dementia thousand plus Martin. I'd love to know I keep waiting for Media Tech the habits. Amd moment where it kind of jumps into know dump jumps from a budget spoke exclusively sort of a budget solution for Oem's that don't want to. That are more price sensitive and more region locked into a a true qualcomm. Competitor doesn't seem to have happened yet and I'd love to know your take on whether you think it's possible mediatek could or Wiltz it make that jump at some point. Yeah I was looking at this density one thousand chip as well an and I think I had my thought. Was that like on paper. It looked so good. There must be something wrong with the either like they have. Problems manufacturing at a large quantities. They couldn't couldn't get the quality assurance right to the they had. They had defective products or like something in the process. Had to be go wrong because obviously people would like to like would like to have alternatives to a single supplier. And I'd be surprised if companies like Google wouldn't pick them up on their chip just to kick start their ecosystem and to kick some competition if it was a viable option so it means that probably it is not a viable option otherwise companies like Google have already started using them. So I think Maybe they're just not quite there in their technology stack or in their manufacturing where caucus. Yeah I mean. Nobody's where qualcomm isn't that that's by design. There's there's a lot we've set in in the past about call comes close to monopolistic hold on the smartphone market in North America and all of their patents that require carriers to use their five G. And LCD starting with CD May and now five G. Patents and You know we don't want to retread that that that that really You know well worn discussion but I do think it's worth pointing out that I would love to see a real competitor especially with Samsung leaving the custom chip space with walkway or high silicon. Being sort of stymied by the entity list and not really being allowed to to work with with. Us companies anymore Although I do believe that their relationship with arm has not it stalled for a little bit but that it it started up again when are basically decided that they did not have any US dependencies. That would prevent it from from working with with high silicon. So I want to shift the discussion a little bit to the delay and android eleven. So Jerry we've been waiting for this day and it was supposed to happen next week at Google. I O obviously Google has now been canceled and Google said that due to the complexity of trying to work from home and all the engineers trying to work independently from home. They're going to be delaying ANDROID LEVINS Beta launch until June. Third two weeks later but in an extra developer preview released yesterday or two days ago days anymore and those you know the people who are on the developer preview including our our own. You know high out Houston and Alex Toby. They're telling us that it's pretty stable at this point that it's not it doesn't feel like it's disastrous to use it as a daily driver as it was during the first and second developer previous. What's your take on the the Beta it's going to be launched in a live stream? Dave BURKES GONNA go on stage from Google. Campus socially distanced from the assume the film crew and the very limited number of people that'll be in his vicinity. It's going to be called the Beta launch. Show and there's going to be Acuna. There's going to be a mini. Iot No but just focused on android. What what do you think's going to come of this? And and what are you most looking forward to about the android eleven Beta this year. Well I I hope they fill the seats with robots. I mean this is Google so cool but I I really think once we all heard about the difficulties in working from home and all this. I think that's like codes. Speak for. Yeah we're all working decentralized and there was this big bug we had to fix and we didn't find it in time because we're all decentralized so here's the new developer preview hopefully with that bug fixed and we're going to push back up public facing Beta for another month while we test it which makes perfect sense and you cannot. I mean you can't be angry about that you know. They're all working from home and sharing code with each other in sitting in playing on. Hang out and meet and not getting their work done in the same way they were before so things are going to slip through. And you know the good news is if I'm correct and I did software development for living for a while and I I. I'm pretty sure I'm correct here They they caught it. So that's good. You know delayed until June third It's it's really. How many days is that delayed? We don't know what was supposed to be coming in. May is now coming in June the very beginning of June. I think people are making a big deal about nothing here. This is just how for development works. We would all love to see a public Beta with consumer facing changes that we think are really cool or that we really eight on. You know our old pixels right now. We all would love to have that but we don't. We have to wait another twenty some odd as for it. We can wait what I'm most excited to see. I'm I'm really loving though the push towards one time permissions Those are essential completely agree. Security is first off it should not be up to the users you have to stop thinking is stupid users doing stupid things Because that means somebody is enabling a user to do a stupid thing and that means the user isn't stupid. It's Google responsibility to let us manage our privacy and security easily and one time permissions is it. That's so basic. You have to wonder why were on the eleventh of Android and we're now seeing you know them start to get a little bit more. I don't know what word to use popular a little bit more in use throughout the operating system. I don't care about whatever changes they're going to bring to the notifications and you know they will. I really don't care about their messaging strategy. I use signal. I don't care about of that. I care that users now have an easier way to manage their own privacy insecurity. And that's what's important so I'll give you a bit of a different question Martin You mentioned you are also looking forward to one time permissions with android eleven. What do you think that android ten lacks that you really want Google to bring to Andrew Levin that hasn't announced yet like what would what would your ideal android eleven look like If you had your way with its design or or are you pretty happy with the direction it's going. I actually think that a pretty good place I think more more work on permissions As is required. But I see that they're doing it with each new update that is definitely my biggest pet peeve and I think doing decently good job at it so I'm I'm generally speaking happy with the direction. What further using right now a curiosity I am using the galaxy note ten The smaller version. Because I can't get used to like super huge and do use the stylus for anything. Yes you do. I have a surface as well. So I have a stylus and both my and my phone and I draw storyboards for example for my editor for Takata and I also sketch out a lot of ideas for For crowd I with a digital pen. Either on my surface or on my note no ten and it's You know just to get like if I have an idea all my God. We have to put this button here or we have to re size that or like. What if what if you collected feedback in this way or that way I can just I realize that you can just take out the The pen and then start drawing on the screen and I don't have to find an APP to put it in whatever just safe and I get back to it whenever any two. So are you one of those people that prefers written notes to oneself over typing on a virtual keyboard? No no no I don't I never right. I content right. I have like ten years. I'm just sketching things out. So basically I'm sketching out fake screen specifically lines and yeah exactly. I'm sure it's great to be able to like say that your your crowd APP. Take a screen shot and then whip the pen out and actually redraw top of that screen. Shot charges that you see in your mind. That's gotta be really useful. That is yes very much and I I I mean I really liked that. The no ten has screen recording built in. I find it very weird. That's one thing I would like to add. Just like a built built in screen recording feature like I think that's on the docket if mistaken it's in the current developer previews on it works pretty good. You'll like it okay. Yeah so I I liked it very much because whenever we work without developers. I mean. It's whatever you give feedback. It's either in the form of screen shots videos and it's super useful to be able to draw on top two inches do it natively and abide away. F- If I'm allowed to plug one more we're looking for one more developer. So if you're if you're working with a reactive native or No Jess then Write us at jobs at crowd that come we want we want your CV with two RS. Cress correct jobs as always want to make sure that's in there and I love the. I love the note ten. I have to say the smaller one. I still use it from time to time. It's just a beautifully made phone. It's perfect size. I just think a other than the fact that the the power buttons on the left side I think Samson nailed it. I want to ask about the. Lg Velvet because that phone has been teased in teased and then LG released unveiled at first South Korea. earlier this week and this is a brand new design for. Lg really kind of goes back to a more one. Hand friendly teardrop kind of Influence is quote inspired by nature. Which is actually I think. Not a great corollary because it it brings my mind back to the the galaxy S. three it's like raindrops sounds which nobody should ever have to hear again. I want to know what your what your thoughts are on the strategy. I mean this is not an expensive phone by modern standards. Around seven hundred thirty. Us dollars if you convert from Korean won- it's one of the first phones to run a snap driven seven sixty five rather than the eight sixty five eight gigs of Ram one hundred. Twenty two point. One storage Triple camera setup on the back including a forty eight megapixel trimbe primary camera an ultra wide and a depth No telephoto Forty three hundred million of our battery and I sixty eight water resistance. It's got active. Stylus support just like V. Sixty which is very cool. And there's a three point five millimeter headphone Jack. Jerry's very happy about that. So what what do you think is this? Is this enough for L. Is this just another kind of bump in the road is it? Is it going to turn their fortunes around? What do you think is is going to happen here? You guys are also thinking that this is going to replace the g series correct. We think so. This is probably they're going to have visas. Which is their high end flagship. All whatever and then they have like an almost flak ship more design focus g series which has developed now correct. That's your you're taking. Yeah I definitely I agree with that. Yeah well I agree. I think that DAB on its own is a good idea like I think given how many given the volumes of algae. I don't think that they need to you. Know flagships with the same processor for for one year so it would make sense to to separate the two and then to to really give both like a reason for existence so You know the the enthusiasts can have the TV series and then the that The I guess the regular people care more about design and and and hopefully Polish. Because I think that kind of seems to be what they're going forward to make the phone like pretty and nice versus just like throwing all the specs in there I think I think it makes sense in general separate those two. I think I think the phone visually looks much better than any recent. Lg phone at least from the series. I thought that the G eight and G S excellent whatever. The old looked rather clunky. And I think I think we geeks like to at not realize how much a product looking pretty matters to people so I I. I think I think it's not a not a bad idea to revamp their design and I think it looks. Looks like a no ten a Sony or whatever but I I think it looks definitely more definitely nicer than previous. Lg phones. I just I wonder whether that price tag is is still going to be a problem for them. It's not a flagship anymore Not a full flagship anymore. and I feel like I feel like for four seven hundred dollars having a a phone. There's plenty of phones with snapdragon. Eight hundred series in that price winter reading. So I think it's going to be a little tough but I like it more than their latest G. series phone so I'm hoping that it will bring them some improvement. I think you nailed it. Yeah I agree Jerry I want. I want you to finish that thought but I thought the g eight was a great phone. I actually liked it a lot. I thought the the depth sensing time of flight sensors on the front that allowed you to kind of claw and it you know whatever it was called like the feature was underwhelming but the idea was there and I think. Lg Does that a lot where it has really good tech demos. That don't translate. It's really flushed out Features and the V. series. I just think goes with brute force and it does a really good job and I. I had one on the show a couple of weeks ago. some gadget guy and we were talking about why people are so passionate about. Lg and it just comes down to the fact that like as you said at the beginning They get a bad rap in the media. And I think I posted something online yesterday on twitter about how people are upset that. Lg doesn't get the same respect. It's kind of a Rodney dangerfield problem right that. L. D. doesn't get the same respect as as Samsung. They deserve that respect. And I. It's funny because I disagree. I think that. Lg has done this to itself to some extent. But I also agree that Samsung just steals all of the air in the room by virtue of its of its a massive marketing budgets and that does not always translate into. It's fair comparisons. But I do think that. Lg deserve some of the blame here as well absolutely. I do think that they're like like things that Reviewers I wish cared more about but I mean it's it's really on the company to make people care about the product if people don't care about the features that they think are important and maybe those features aren't all that important in the end and and Yeah I mean L G has done plenty to confuse US reviewers and to to make us feel like man you know not. All of their products are as exciting as they could be. So I mean I design is definitely one of those things so if they if they could Polish that up I think it would be helpful to say the least Jerry. Finish your thought on that because I I want to hear what you think before we move on I think in North America. This phone is doomed just like any other. Lg Phone People are gonNA see snapdragon seven sixty five and then a seven hundred dollar plus price tag and nobody's going to buy it because for two dollars more a month can get a phone with a snapdragon eight sixty five and five G. even though they'll never be able to use it and all these other things that they have been told over and over by phone manufacturers dead they really need to have Part of that. I hate to blame US but sometimes I have to. We have to care about the phones that consumers care about if we want to stay in business. We can care about other things but we can't devote let's say. Daniel is the biggest. Lg Fan in the world. He can't devote time to say all the good things that LG does because he has to devote his time to running a business and when lg can't convince consumers that you know these phones are worth caring about. We can't get the message across therefore nobody's going to care. Well I mean the the irony there is at. Lg is still the third biggest selling the third highest selling Oem in North America. Just because of its Carrier relationships so that was a big reason why the sixty was only released carriers not unlocked like other LG phones. I'm excited to see what happens. I mean L G not leaving I think David Ruddick on the show a year ago and he had predicted that by this time algae would be completely out of the game the way that HCC seems to have kind of abandoned smartphone aspirations. So I'm glad that there's they're still in it and they're trying new things because the more competition the better I just hope that LG can can fix. Its endemic marketing. It's IT's software update its its pricing. It's just like the there are things that plague the company For every release and I hope that finally it can get get he can just leapfrog all of them and then really compete because mainstream is important whether you care about high photo high quality audio or whether you care about content creation on your device both of which. Lg is the best at the be. The best in the business at it doesn't matter if you're fundamentals are are bad and and you know the V. series is a great series but some of the fundamentals are just not up to snuff. You know maybe. Lg Fallen into the same trap is Sony. L. IS GONNA make phones forever and lose money doing it because the company itself can afford to do. So that's what we see with Sony. Today Sony loses money on every single phone they sell and they don't care they they WANNA sell a complete electronics services packaged to their loyal customers. Who have a Sony? Tv A Sony a the receiver so speakers. Sony this Sony that while you're a Sony Phone A L G position they can do the same thing and I wonder if that hurts their ability to you. Know they're not sweating trying to make the next best thing because if they don't make the next best thing they're going to go out. I I actually feel like I do think I do feel like. Lg is trying. I feel like Sony has been like really slow and innovation department except for I I kind of like. They're very latest attempt with the Exterior Perot. But other than that I feel like they have become really stale. I feel like LG is at least throwing things on the market. I think that it's clear that have try. They're trying with the velvet as well. I think the dual screen stuff at might or might not be the right thing for most people on the market. I think it's an okay solution but but you know it's it's an attempt so I'm I'm happy that they're in the market and that they're trying and that for some people There there still a pretty good choice. Yeah we're we're giving you like a thumbs up with the you're trying badge. Lg We're we're we're we're on your side. We we want you to do. Well I have to. I have to add by the way that I have convinced. Some of my Friends to buy. Lg phones because simply they become ridiculously cheap after a while and I have yet to hear any one of them complain about the lack of software updates or or all the things that we as peaks really seem to think that you know. They're the end all be all over the phone or or you know The fact that the vessels are a little thicker than the other stuff. And I've I've really not heard any of the complaints that I was expecting to hear from them and so I think maybe maybe this is one of the things where where are bubble cares about different things and The rest of the world so while. That's why you have crowd because you can cash right. We're GONNA bring it back around to the beginning here for remark. Well no say just finish. Finish that you're saying we're GONNA wait Yeah we'RE GONNA. We're going to wait and see how people actually what people actually think about products. It's GonNa be one of the interesting things that you actually be able to feel the pulse of the community. Hopefully you're going to be able to see if people actually care about Algeria or if it's just three people who are shouting loudly it's GonNa be hopefully showing the numbers. What trends do I mean? That's basically twitter in a nutshell. But yeah hopefully you can organize it a little bit better. So it's not just they don't get all of the all of the attention that that's the one thing right. You have to have a little bit more oversight than Jack Jack Martin. I'm not planning to okay so we got a little over so I'm not going to bring up the last. I was gonNA talk about Google's new Coat more coherent messaging strategy. So I'll just end it on this note What do you use primarily to talk to your friends and family now that everybody's at home are you. Do you use a particular Video Chatting Service Martin. So I've tried to convince everyone to join signal for just chatting with the medium success. A lot of people are are A. I've gotten some people through to switch. My Dad is on it. My my girlfriend is on it. And so on then we do. Video Co. Levin as well sometimes with my grandma and with my family I use skype mostly for video calling. Because that's just how we've always done things and We use Google meet For crowd because we have a G. suite subscription and. I mean I'm on. We are discord. Now we have a crowd discord with the people. So we're doing voice stuff over there as well so it's all over the place just like everybody else. Yeah I joined a lot of zoom meetings with friends. Lately I'VE BEEN IN SLACK. Kohl's it's it's really everywhere. It's a fricken mess man like nothing. There's no coherence. Google may be trying to fix. It's internal messaging strategy but just the world can't agree on what makes sense. That's why zoom has become so popular because I think people are just like. Yeah whatever works the end. Low hanging fruit right all right. Well thank you so much for being here. Martin it's been a pleasure as always and we'll have you back soon when crowd goes out of Beta. Hopefully when when you think that'll be just judging from the early impression are have absolutely no idea all right. Well you let us know because we'll we'll have you back when that happens two years from now because then we'll have you back before then all right well if people want to find out more about you and about your your youtube. Channel which distilling incredible and people should go watch working. They do that I am Tech Altair on all the platforms tech an A. L. T. A. Are Basically Youtube twitter. Those two most active classrooms. And you're still doing your Friday checkouts on stories right. Yeah literally have to go and do them now because I haven't done them yet and it's Friday six PM. So I have to have to go through them now. I will be releasing a new out video today on Nebula and tomorrow and Youtube so that content is also still still happening beautiful. Well I'm glad to hear that you're trying to balance content creation with building an entirely new platform for reviewers not even close to his ambitious as most people. 'cause doing amazing work. I'm surprised I really like it. I'm sleeping lot but the rest of doing it so I'm happy where I am. Congrats on the launch. It's it's an amazing achievement and I can't wait for more people to check it out. Thank you bad. I think you're onto a really great idea here outside Daniel that before the show. I think this is this could be the thing that really goes big. I'm very very happy to hear that when you when you get your Unicorn Billion Dollar Valuation. We'll be able to say we knew you want. Just don't don't forget about us when don't sell them. That's all we ask. Yes that's one of my cornerstones that I won't I will not I love. I love that you can say that I will. I will be popular but I will never sell the facebook. I really hope so. But but it's one of my goals in life to not sell to facebook so that makes it mean. That's just an admirable goal in general. Don't Sell Your Business. Don't sell your soul. Don't sell your data. Don't sell anything to this company period. Okay that's it Jerry. You're a hill. I won't give you a plug. 'cause you you're the best and people should just go read your stuff android central as I'm going. I recorded this so sometime down the road when I've done something that makes me not the best. I'M GONNA replay. It could play it. Doesn't it doesn't mean that I'll forgive you at the time you can try your best you can. You can leverage it as some sort of blackmail later on if you need to and I'm always just so grateful that people listen to this If you have any feedback for us if you want to get in touch about about anything we talked about during the show email us at podcast android central Dot Com. I'm at journey Dan. This is the central podcast. And we'll be back next week. Talking about chromebooks with our favourite chromebook. Nerd are a wagner. Stay tuned for that and I have a great week by Ohio.