Hello. Hello. Hello are welcomed. Armchair expert. I'm your host. Mr. Dax gonna have great episode today. Barry, powerful woman. Beautiful woman. Smart tell Jin dedica- woman created a show called girls. Love girls. I'm here to Wanaka you here. You're one of the girls. I love. Yeah. Well, now, I'm gonna now I'm gonna break out. So I wanna be sincere about Lena. Okay. So you did it good. Okay. Not to my liking. But I did it. Now, let me get into the second thing. I wanted to get into k which was. Be outta we because now we're forty eight hours away. Could you have done him doing that hollowing say say happy Halloween? Oh, yeah. That's good Drake are trae smell, mafia eight. Drako trae smell my fake. Give me something. Good to eight as knickers bars, Twix bars. A luck nougat a like a baby a baby out baby Graham, what is it monitor grand honored? Ryan yet. A love Honda grain. Also, Brit baby Ruth also looked Kayla. Love gala and Turk Trie smell fate. It's nice to have you here from you something that Stacy. Orlina? She deserves a better intro than being than me having to do a character. And then new a Halloween. Greetings, third billing too. She has an hour. She has a long time to be on this episode. Matthew can be on for a few minutes us, right? That's right. Thank you. Thank you so much Mr. Dax, so Lena Dunham is here today, which is we felt like a very big get time. Yeah. That wing. We were elated when she said, yes, she was so fun in person. Boy, we could not even get into the studio because we started chatting outside when she arrived in the driveway and that could turn into its own three hour conversation. So personable, very personable. Very smart. Very funny. She's fantastic. You know, she created and starred and directed girls on HBO. She has a new show her new show camping his out. Yes. And it stars. Mr. McKenna high. Now, it doesn't it's as may in Leinna and were trialling around though. This is the part that you probably wouldn't want to happen. Yeah. Wouldn't want me all sin formation who would Moulmein star on their show camping? Well, that's true. He'd be great for minute. Just a great show wanted to start it. Well us because I'm in the show camping alongside Lena Dunham her for me to look miserable. On for a long time. 'cause I gotta put my tongue in a weird spot. Is that what it is? Can you describe what physically album that so disturbing? Had to put your finger on it. But trigger on took a trait which on a part of it has to do with your eye contact. Yeah. It's really intense severe now shop window. What is this intro? I'm sorry. All right. Lena Dunham clean a- Donham. We love her. She delivered. Please enjoy Lena Dunham. We are supported with kindness and love by squarespace. If you listen to this show. You know that we built our website armchair expert pod dot com by we. I mean wabi wa built it on squarespace. Monica doesn't our website get your motor running. That's brad. But I do think it's the best website on earth in the business and the cool thing about square spaces. There's beautiful templates that are created by world class designers. They make it so easy to build your own website. You could show. Oh, case, your work blog or published content sell products and services of all kinds of we won't even ask what services you're providing promote your physical or online business announcing upcoming event or special project in more. It's incredibly easy. It's a world class website that can be designed at squarespace dot com. Head to squarespace dot com slash Dax for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch us the offer code Dax to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website. Or no main that squarespacEcom Dax enter code day x. So happy. I'm so happy looking. Doorless bathroom. I don't believe we've met in real life. I've seen you out events. Okay. Never engaged. We've never engaged in as I see. You know, how this happens we both meet famous people. Yup. In generally, they fall into one of two categories where they're more attractive in real life or they're less attractive in real life in looking at your face. I'm overwhelmed with how cute it is. Not that. I didn't think your onscreen presence wasn't. But I'm really enjoying this real life version of Japanese so much because I mean firstly I pulled up, and I was like, oh when you came out in your overall like this it down to his do Coty, motorcycles, this is a gentleman with an enormous amount of swagger. We knew you were a moment slack here from Celtics on, but that means a lot to me actually because I don't think a ton about the looks thing. Like, I've been going to a bit of a I've been going to a bit of a phase where I've been feeling old down on my son. I texted my best friend Scotty the other night and told her that I couldn't leave the house because I was I said, I'm I'm I look like a piece of dough. Okay. Sure. And she had a great answer. She was like she was like, you know, what she's very pregnant. She's a better excuse to feel like a piece of dough. Which is like she was like, I'm a piece of dough right now. And I'm a piece of piece of dough next. But probably I've been not a piece of dough before and I won't be one in two years. But right now, I'm just kind of owning it. And so since let that dole bake in the sun, one nice, that's nice because you know, what's what's tricky is. It's tempting many things can be happening simultaneously. So you can be embracing who you are. Right. And learn. The love that person. And and that's healthy and wonderful, and we should all spire to do that. And then yet, you're also just an animal or a human being in. You wanna look your best whatever the the the the zone of that is that you've come to like except about yourself. You kind of want wanna be hitting the top of that zone or at least. I of course. Yeah. It's especially, you know, our line of work you cannot help. But think about your looks. No. And you can't help. But think about it, and you also can't help. But think like I have this thought sometimes some like, okay? So I came into this job being you know, I don't have. I'm not I'm not the archetypal like actress lady, but people have accepted that I look a certain way. But then I'm like if I go even more that way, like as you get older, sometimes you gain five or seven or ten pounds or your Happel ISM changes or you go or you go on steroids for a little bit. Or whatever happens not from. Muscle-building Ryan vanish, and they don't take the muscle building kind nor do I. But I want to so bad. And it is occurred to me my my fantasy was always. Well, maybe I'll end up in one of those super hero movies, and I'll have an excuse to do it for like six months as an experiment and just how it feels like walk around lies a big log like just to experience that feeling are you interested in the also like the fact that when you took steroids you'd be like speedy out of your mind and convinced your God will that is the part that is potentially. I can't do it. Yes. I have had friends who've done steroids, and there's many different kinds in some of them. Don't give you that. And then some of them. Yes, I've had friends is like you you couldn't do this. I feel like I've done one line of coke all day long. Yeah. Hundred percents. So that's a deal breaker for me fate. Yes. It would be a deal breaker for me too. But it's eight some, but when I take the stories from LeMay because I have an autoimmune illness. Sometimes do you do you have? Sorry, attic arthritis him. So so. To get two Horning. Very sexy disease psoriatic arthritis. I don't wanna flip you out. But I have a combination of undifferentiated mixed connective tissue disorder and alert. Dan, low syndromes side of endometriosis Ayler, Dan, lows syndrome is a hard to diagnose and fairly rare genetic mutation few different varieties of it shadows. Dr Howard Levy at at Johns Hopkins to help you find out about this. It basically means you don't have enough collagen in your connective tissue. And so that's the version. I have I don't have the vascular version, and so it means like some of the symptoms would be like increased flexibility, but also like deal increased flexibility, and mobility, but decreased strength and joint pain. And there's also other weird stuff like sensitivity to cold. And he didn't are you. Inordinately flexible. I'm gonna show you something they'll tell the viewers at home. Okay. I'm. Oh my goodness. So what Lena has done is basically full ded up her thumb like a wallet. And put it behind her hand on the top of her hand on the palm side. I can't even. Okay. So my arthritis targets there. Yeah. Can't even get it behind that finger there. That's maxed out. What do you do? I'm so how long have you had it? And what do you do to take care of it? So what's interesting is I've had it for going on nine years. But for four or five of those years, I had no idea. It was that. I just thought oh my feet are swelled up that must be motorcycle injury related. And then I was like, oh, I need knee surgery. All these things were happening that felt like injuries. I guess and also the inflammation from arthritis will settle in injuries previous injuries. So I go this makes sense this knee hurts, I got whatever. And then I had a dermatologist who knew I was kind of kept going all these different joint doctors. And he said, you know, I think he might have sorry added arthritis which will rheumatologist he looked at me for. Five seconds looked at my fingernails. He's like you have at all run test. But I can tell you right now, you have it. And then that then I started a different course of treatment. But I'm curious if you think like I do in that I think we're all allergic in this is kind of a lefty thing too. Yeah. But I think in general we eat so many different kinds of foods and met were all allergic to different foods. We don't know where logic to and that in the symptom can be sorry at occur threat. Is it can be your condition? It can be all these different autoimmune conditions. I really believe that there is some reason I carry around guilt and shame is because yes, I'm sick. I also really serious endometriosis head to get hysterectomy last year. Like, I've been through the wringer, health wise. And so I'm like, yeah, I'm sick. That's a thing that just happens to somebody's doesn't happen to others. But I am convinced that I if I were to be just like a slightly more. I want to be a personal slightly more like a willpower and force of energy that like I would be I would feel maybe like forty seven percent better. And so every time I crawl into bed. I have like a haze a blanket of guilt. Sure, the apps me me too. And just in general are you prone to guilt? I'm like, I it's my tastiest addiction is feeling shitty. About myself. I feel shitty about myself. I feel I literally the only time I feel relief in life is when I get for the three seconds after I get attacks from someone. That's like, it's okay. Don't worry about it. And it's like that feeling of someone being like or like, no, no, you didn't do anything wrong or please. Thank you so much for checking in, but it's not an issue. Yes. In. This condition. Lied to you creating elaborate theories, and why people are upset at you or. Yes. But what said should? Yes. One hundred percent, but what sort of become complicated in my life. Is that I was always incredibly guilty and obsessed with the idea of the different people had issues with me and didn't like me. But now that I'm a public person lots of people, I don't know have issues with me and don't like me. Yeah. And some of it for things that I totally new would be provocative in strange. So now I have to deal with the duality. And also the part of it that is like a total self-fulfilling prophecy and created by me, and that's information. None of us really wants about herself. Yes. I do think at all. Like there are many times where I think like, oh, this job of mine has been this crazy blessing. It's almost like immersion therapy, right? Where if like, you're a germaphobe they've making jump in a dumpster, whatever. So I have a lot of codependency things in this job has. Is forced me? You can't have this job. And not learn to set boundaries or you'll die. Andrea percent. When you realize no one else, actually cares. What happens to you girl on such told me a story? She was like twenty two and we were barefoot onset, and it was getting hot. And she said. The last movie I was on. I was barefoot, and it was in a really dirty dangerous place. They just coated the bottoms of my feet with superglue. It was like he did what those those like if you don't say no coat the fucking vase super glow. Absolutely. And then also then in in public. So the way I had to confront this whole thing was like if I'm with my kids, and I'm at the airport. I'm not very friendly. I don't want to interact with people because I don't that's their time. And I feel bad that they have to share me with other people, whatever. So in general, I'm pretty direct before out is a family dislike. Hey, this is our time nice to meet you. But I gotta keep it moving and many times people walk away, and they're like that guy's a fucking asshole. And I've had to just get comfortable with the notion that you know, what there are going to be a lot of people on this planet think you're an asshole. But I have to prioritize my family, my friends, and I also have to remind myself in those moments where I feel shitty. Do any of my friends think I'm a fuck and hassle is anyone that really knows me think I'm a fucking asshole. And I I don't think so so. So, but that's your nose. You. I've been hearing about you for years like, you know, back when when seventy two percent of gnome data Shepard we had a friend in common, Leslie Arfan, Leslie are fan s she's the greatest, and so she would talk about you. And like, I couldn't believe that. There was a famous person who was so nice. And it's like she'd always be like, oh, yeah. I was stressed. So I called Dax you called dad's like I didn't think that I figured you were like on a yacht somewhere with like Giselle bunging sitting on your face. No sure wish I had had that experience prior to shutting it all down eleven that could get me through some lonely nights. And that's I thought it was really cool. I don't think any of your friends think you're an asshole maybe one. But I haven't met them. Sure. Sure. Go ahead on the day. Sometimes Monica thinks I'm an asshole. But she comes back pretty quickly and a lot see a lot of sides. That's true. All assholes all the facets. Yeah. Though. That's also true back to Leslie really quick. Do you know how we met? You know, that story is it at the maritime hotel, can you detail it for me, though? Yes. It's one of my favorite ways to have met someone. So I was there in New York shooting baby, mama. So I was at that hotel guests six weeks. You're really good. Maybe mama. Thank you so much. I that's work. You're proud of o- hundred percent. But you know, it's great about that is like occasionally, you do something for entirely the right reason. Which was I just wanted to be around Tina name Amy being funny. That's it. I zero aspirations for myself in that movie. I was just. Only got gotta get to go watch those to do their thing. They're gonna write me a check on Friday, mazing amazing. So I'm staying at the maritime hotel and every morning I liked to drink coffee. So I got to order coffee from room service, but there's no room service at the maritime hotel. You have to call the operator and the operator, I guess relays. The message to the kitchen I had at this point talk to Leslie Arfan on the phone probably forty two times. And so one morning morning every morning, and I call up, and I go, hey, so I've loved the by the way, I just want to add I think this is complete horsh it that you have to bright down my order and relay it they should just let me give it to them. So you don't have to deal with this. And she goes, oh, well, that's just the tip of the horse shit iceberg of what's going on down here. And I go, oh what's going on down there? She goes. Well, first of all I am in a basement. Do you know when you talk to me, I'm in a basement, I'm like, oh my God. They've got you in a basement. So we start talking for probably twenty minutes. Like, I'm his laying in bed talking with this. Gale a find her super interesting. All funny. He's so funny. She goes. A listen. I want to take my cigarette break. So I'm gonna go out front, and I go great. I'll meet you down there. So I get on my clothes. I meet her on the sidewalk we talk for another thirty minutes. We discover we're both in the in a similar program, which is now ship immediately bonding, and then she goes, oh, I I wrote this book, and I'm like, oh, wow. You've written a book. I want wanna read it. So she gets me a copy of dear diary, I read it so fast. I love it. Incredible. A give it to Amy Poehler onset. You'll love this book. Well, haulers are fans favorite favorite favorite. Yes. Favorite favorite? And then so polar reads, it loves it writes, her a little note, I think give it to our fen this develops into this friendship or she ended up coming out to LA and was taking manager means, and I kinda was like to think somewhat of a mentor to her because I remember she felt very guy didn't even state your house at some point maybe on your couch for a night. The so possible I helped her get more like she didn't know how to get a car. I helped. Her car, she attacks you got a car amounted one night, and I had to drive her to go get her car something grey zone ice. There's something about her. I just really was rooting for so much, but in then you played a really huge role in her life. And let's talk about this because this goes directly into girls, which is didn't you? Discover her first writing job was on girls. It didn't you discover her through Twitter. Yeah. I thought she was so funny on Twitter. I thought she was so smart and interesting and weird. And like she gives us like a really negative review to a snack food. Like, it was just like the person. You're like, oh, yeah. No. I wanna be watching to you this person immediate Mente. And so when we were trying to come up with writers for the show, she and I had been DM ING as the kids say shar and asked her to meet me at aroma coffee on how Ston street why we can't know. I really was obsessed for a summer. There was a summer where like my major vice was like eating these really insane cheese sandwiches at aroma coffee, like eight or nine and a day sitting in. Watching him pass. That sounds heavenly to me kinda was great like I would feel pretty bad about myself at the end of the day. But well, it was happening. I was like I'm an adult and part of being an adult is you need as many cheese sandwiches. You want in a one twenty four hour period. So Leslie kind of came to my office in aroma. And we chatted which clubhouse may see cheese sandwich clubhouse, and we chatted and I just loved her. And we've had some of the great experiences of life together and something I love about our friendship is that she wrote on the first two seasons of the show. She went off to do other things and my life, and I bet you can relate to this. As it got really big while it's of career opportunities. Whatever it also got released small like, I my personal life as the world expanded. I made my personally for lead tiny. I was very scared, and I also didn't create a lot of space. My day was divided into like working or like lying with a pillow on my face. I didn't understand another mode. So looking back I can recognize that in probably a lot of people who were really important to my life. I forgot to include. And I forgot to check in on them in so Leslie, and I had a long period where you know, we would check in with each other. But we didn't really spend time together in that time. She got married I was lucky enough to be at her wedding. And oh, so then I would have seen you. There. I saw you at her wedding. Right. Awesome wedding that coolest wedding, rusty's speech. I left by the way. Oh, yeah. Check in with your therapist all entertain the listeners just want you guys to know that I'm just gonna let Dr John know what's going on. Hi, found free therapy on armchair expert. So so I don't have to. Take a pass today to go rainy, literally everyone in my life is like Sosa. I've been working on this not to brag I've been working on a Quinter in movie. But I wanted to know we can get if you're allowed to say that you say because there was a hop. Razzi? Picture of me showing Brad Pitt my underwear. So my mom was horrified. But she was she wasn't happy for you. My mom thinks I'm really funny, but she's in a private way, but she wishes that there was less like she wishes that I like kept it fun at Christmas. But that there was like a little less like a public sheriff aspect to it. My mom's like, Alexa. She's an artist. But she's like a nice Jewish girl from Long Island who thinks like underwear should be kept to the person who's wearing them. Does. She think it's indulgent of you hundred percent. Yeah. She would say a lot to me when I was growing up like a lot of like, well, at least you think you're funny thing like, my mom. Or she'll savings every time. She's been interviewed. She's like, I always thought Lena was actually I, you know, I just always thought she was trying all kinds of things and they didn't work. But if other people think he's funny. That's great. Okay. But would she can't or maybe what she's not realizing is you're just doing your thing at the Christmas party? But there are just people around taking pictures of you're not asking for it to be public. No, I do other things that are for sure. Asking to be public. But I did not know when I showed Brad Pitt my under that that was was that in a scene or just real life real life. Oh, that's great. But it was that he asked what a cute doll was. And I happen to have one tattooed on my side. So I thought I'm to you know, I've got the 'lustration reunion. My body. You could spend the next ten minutes describing an orally or just let his eyes gaze upon my thigh. Yeah. And that's just I bet he enjoyed that. You know, what I wanna believe like he probably doesn't have that many people just going like sure, you whatever it's. Yeah. I'll show you my underwear life. I figure there's not a lot of just like good. Stidham New England. Why birth New England's not showing him their underwear? So like this this circles beautifully back, which is I I think people underestimate how isolating success is in. It's so counterintuitive, but I have friends that are, you know, infinitely more successful than myself. And I've seen it. It just gets very isolating unless you you got a really a fight against it and have a game plan. It's just going to naturally happen. So let's talk about just the experience of I guess, maybe at being an outsider looking in feeling like, you're an outcast in a misfit, and that being kind of your persona you like rock, right? Yeah. I love punk rock in the U. We liked Leslie 'cause she's punk rock. Right. Lesley's definition of punk rock. Leslie is the most punk rock person. I've ever met like, yeah. And she's so punk rock that when she does mean, it's nerdy. She just like owns it. And makes it Blake. I were we drove around L A. We were both new to L A. Just like drive around and get a hotdog and sing along to the rent soundtrack. Yeah. Which I if I did it in high school. I'd want to shoot myself in the face, you're Leslie made it seem cool to do it. Right. Or like lessee be like, yeah. Where your pajamas to this premier like who gives a shit? Like, right. Also, what was cool about Leslie? She's doing all that. And she's sober like I like someone who's a lunatic. I feel that way. Which is like it doesn't take drugs to make me a lunatic. Like, right. The only reason I ever took drugs was to be less of alone attack. But it's interesting when you have a little bit of an identity where you feel like I'm an outsider misfit or I'm punk rock or all these things. And then you get kind of accepted by the popular people. It can be a weird transition. Right. You can kind of either a feel fraudulent or be distrust, the people who are now accepting new. There's like all these insecurities that arise right? All of it. And also I used to have a feeling like I don't think what I do is for everyone. Like, I don't think my story is for everyone. I don't think. My experiences for everyone. So sometimes I'd be having these people express appreciation of what I did or like act as though they related to me. And I would have thought which is probably not very generous for. I'd be like you can't possibly get it, which means that we're having a false interaction, which means entire thing is bullshit. And like, then you turn into that. Like eighth grade kid who's like don't like green day anymore because everyone likes green day. Yes. But I felt that way about myself myself was green day in a we have this expression called them. We also from terminal uniqueness. It's one of my favorite expansions think Rizova can unique at work favored expression, my favorite thing that my mom knows is like all tell her something that my fair piss told me, and she'll love it. And then a week later. I'll figure out that she's using it one hundred percent wrong. Unlike some more moral theories about her sounds like I told her the expression terminal unique this, I think Leslie told it to me and I loved it. And I was like, you know, dad's offers from a real case of terminal uniqueness. And then later she's like I was saying about an. I also suffer from terminal uniqueness just being so unique that your entire life. No one gets set. You was not in on the joke. Now, he also wants that to me. This is a favourite. My therapist is big into accountability. Let's accountability. It means everyone has to be accountable to me. This is right. This is there's a couple little clues of just maybe some light narcissism is in the mix. They're just little. No, we're not going to label her that. But. Administered about my mom. She's like my Piero. But like, I think as she's gotten older, she's she would tell you this. She's going to be sixty nine tomorrow. Okay. And sexy sixty nine but she looks good. And something about almost as she's gotten older her capacity to like endure anyone else's bullshit. She's just a steamroller steaming through the world, and she's just like, especially because she's a female artists, and she like really duked it out in the seventies. And eighties to do what? She does. Yes. Now. She's just kind of settled into like eccentric glamour puss with a jewel on her shoe. And it's like a really it really works for her. Oh, that's great. I earned the right to just kind of one hundred percent the vibe, can I just say that this is an incredibly soothing room. And that like, my friend told me recently that if you attuned to another person for twenty minutes that it can have the same effect as like taking down or like, your body your nervous system, your CNS, your central nervous system, just like taps into a. A new mode, and I really feel like I came in here. A little jangled looking at my week, not taking it moment by moment. But taking it day by day in stressed out way. And you have just like landed the plane. Oh, wonderful. That's fantastic. Thank you for that. No one will go back to. So you you directed a movie tiny furniture, and that's what opened up the door for girls. Yep. And you start getting recognized in getting attention. And it's just very tricky to navigate. Yeah. I was twenty five I had just turned twenty five when we start shooting the first season. I turned twenty six exactly a month after girls came out. But I was a young twenty six I lived with my parents still I'd never had a real boyfriend. Like, I got my first real boyfriend that year before that I'd just sort of like dated people, but I'd never had like a true relationship partnership. I was extremely suspicious of that person. Was that part of any of this? I had aspects of maturity, but I was like pretty stunted like fearful little person when I. Finally, met my long term boyfriend, Jack still a close friend of mine we broke up last year. And it was just like a fun ball of neuroses and talent enjoy but he was in a similar moment. His band had like the number one hit in America. So it was like that's all we are young that you couldn't escape for an entire summer. And now never again. And so we were sort of like in a similar mode. And so we kind of just grabbed each other like liferafts style and went for it. Yeah. So I was really like a I wasn't like a worldly twenty six who. I was like a freaked out twenty six right? Yeah. It was a lot. And you don't wanna be the presumes like ooh, getting famous was so scary. But I was I had a lot of trauma that I had it worked through. I was a super stressed out. I had like a serious, physical illness. That hasn't been diagnosed yet. So it wasn't like exactly prime. It wasn't like she's got a good physical fitness regime. She gets great amounts of sleep ready to go like rose like this is a person who could be knocked over by the wind at any moment. And I had this weird. And again, this is up thousand percent projection Lavaux in look, I'm trapped in my own experience. Which is usually said, I saw you on girls. And I immediately had the same reaction. I think many people had which was like I'm so into the fact that she's this confident getting bare naked all the time. And it's so refreshing in. It's definitely I've not seen. It minimally was only that like oh shit. It's rare that I don't I see something news. So you already I'm already excited and titillated by the whole thing because I've not seen it. But then the projector in me, I had this kind of theory about it. And I'm just curious if it's at all true at love to hear. Okay. So when I was in junior high and high school, and I fell like we'll fuck I can't do the feathered hairstyle that everyone's doing, and I'm not pulling off the look with those jeans in that thing, I feel like I can't compete in that. And that's why punk rock appealed to me. So I was like, you know, what fuck that. I'm having a mohawk. I can't do that hairstyle with love to. But I have colleagues, and I can't do the side part and all the stuff. So I feel so insecure trying to do this thing I don't seem to be succeeding that than I I'm going to yell. Fuck you I'm taking myself out of this game. This is my declaration that I don't care about your judgment. Of course, I did a lot. But it was my way of going. Fuck you. I'm not playing your game. So you can judge meal you want. But then ironically, those looks worked for me and close I chose worked for me. And I think people around me saw it as like, oh that kids so brave. He's like he's wearing size fifty two pants and a four x champion sweatshirt and his dreadlocks. He he's so confident, but we really it was a reaction to going like, I don't feel like I can do the cookie cutter version. So I'm going to reject it. And I just wondered was your thing just going like, I feel judged by you. So I'm going to out do you one hundred percent? My thing was always like I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna hit the punchline before you, can you know, when we have those experiences inform. Years of not being seen the way we want to be seen like a big memory of mine is like, you know, in the summer before you start school. You like you're like, I'm remaking my identity this summer, and I'm so I would think about my first day of school outfit. Every minute of every day. I would fantasize it. I would talk about if to my therapist, my mom, and I would game it out. She was great at doing that. With means. My mom is like a real Queen of like finding like like I'd be like, listen, I can't go back to school without Kate Spade. Bag and she'd be like, well, we can't afford that. But I'm gonna figure it out. And we're gonna like my mom was a person like found a tomah Gottschee somewhere on the day. No one could tell g she's just a Queen. So I remember clueless had just come out and I was obsessed with clueless. And so my mom was like civic character share. Okay. The whole the whole thing was credible. And I was at of the asleep. But I wanted to share we all wanted to share, and none of us were share. And none of those are one year apart, by the way is gonna sit he'll thirty one love thirty two killing it. Yeah. Six eighty seven. Love. Thank you so much for. Yeah. It's so we were in the same moment where clueless happen a huge deal. So my mom was like we found a mini backpack. Got the sketchers that had a he'll. We saw skirt you get her pigtails. And then I'm like the first day of you know, you have your real backpack. And then the mini backpack is a fashion thing. And I was like I'm going back to school in. Everyone's gonna fucking flip out. I'm certainly going to be super popular 'cause I'm gonna end then I got back to school literally somehow no one had seen clueless yet. And the first thing they did is they were like, we're not doing classes morning like to like bond all the fourth graders were doing dodgeball Anza. Suddenly, I'm like in dodgeball in my high heeled sneakers and my mini backpack. And I just remember feeling of like painting myself to the wall as tight as you could possibly fucking go to avoid the ball. And just being like, this is hell life is held at is so tied. It's so tough. If he is asked again, a Allen dot while. But like for me that was a thing of trying and expectations versus the outcome. That's a big, and those are my favorite kinds of characters to write are people whose perception of themselves and the world's perception themselves. Crazy gap like those and those are those fun characters to play. Yeah. A golf exists between the perceived self and the present himself one hundred percent, it's a joy and employer. Tune for four armchair. There. We are supported by me young as we are supported, my Mia knees. That's a new take on the ma'am Unum. These names on they never asked me to write. And I did anyway. And you give a little twist Monica. Yeah. Are saw a spring in your step last week? I said what's going on? Why are you in such a good mood? And you said I got something special in the mail from me NBA did special seasonal pair Jack lantern print so cute for Halloween. So cheeky unintended listened me. Undies I can't say enough about them. They're the most comfortable thing you could put on your body there three times softer than cotton. They're made of micro modal fabric. And let me tell you some. They are also in the business of lounge pants, and tease. It's so nice on my skin. Yeah. Yanni's has a great offer for my listeners for any first time purchasers when you purchase any me on these you get fifteen percent off and free shipping. This is a no-brainer. Get fifteen percent off a pair of the most comfortable. Nba's you'll ever put on to get your fifteen percent off your first pair, free shipping and one hundred percents. Satisfaction guaranteed. Go to my Indies dot com slash decks. That's Muniz dot com slash Dax armchairs supported by quip quip, the coolest electric toothbrush out there. Monica. Yeah. I'm always urging university for two minutes, and I do. Do you run a timer? Now. That's what's so cool about quip every thirty seconds. It'll remind you to switch sides. It keeps you on track. That is done to brush for the recommended two minutes. Convenient also brush heads are automatically delivered on a Dennis recommended schedule. Every three months for just five bucks. Save you that trip to the store goal to that long. I'll was seven thousand options. Listen, they're backed by over twenty thousand dental professionals quip starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash Dax right now, you get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush that your I refill pack free at G E T Q U P dot com slash Dax. Now, I also think we had a similar experience as I understand it. My life completely changed permanently by meeting my best friend Aaron weekly Aaron was your higher power. And it was my higher power. And I understand that you in Jemima had this. Did you change your life? One hundred percent because she thought I was cool, and I wasn't cool and Jemima was cool dramatic Oklahoma's right shocking. Like, she has her own intense pain and challenges as she would tell you an issue would tell the world, but like she was just a personal link. If she wore like a giant t shirt from the Miami airport. So then Lee everyone wanted a giant t shirt on the Miami airport like she's just she didn't follow any trend or any. She never had a thing that looked like another person staying like she was so fucking cool on when she got I knew who she was we had met and then she switched schools to my school. She was a ninth grader I was in eighth grader or not that usual for a high school or to talk to a middle schooler and one day. Was like sitting on the stairs. And she was like come here. And like I remember the feeling of her like patting the stairs by her meeting. I'm allowed to sit here. And then it was just like it was on. And it took me time to realize that like she wasn't about to play a prank on like Dumbo pig's blood over your head at the dance. But she's end living. That's amazing mentors. Like, she literally remembers the name like I remember everyone went to high school with. I remember how they looked at me. I remember when I game the whole thing out Jemima literally can't look if I there we had the exact same school experience. If I say to her like, Becky robes. Yeah. She would never have no clue she hasn't remember single fucking person from our high school. She's remember people she made out with they probably have very little power over her. She somehow had this crazy compass right or like two months of school year like the most miserable days for me were the days that insane BART's her psych. Her life was so fucking. He wants called me. And was like I remember I was my like landline rang, and it was on. She was like if we're going to Saint parts if you get a ticket. We not gonna have to pay for anything and Gwen to my parents. And I was like something amazing happened if we can get a ticket to save my parents you've school tomorrow, we're not buying you fucking ticket to Saint farts. Are you in your what on earth was? This was a two year old is allowed to buy a ticket to Saint Barbara hang out with Russian oligarchs pop in like February. On a school day. But Jemima win. Yeah. Jim I always somewhere. She was always like choose like, she's like a character include this. I wish share she's a full Sherry. I mean, it's like she's a share. She's eighty Cedric. She's all the things also the weirdest detail about your mind. She's always early. Oh, interesting donor intuitive. I'm like an anxious guilty like the studios person who's late to everything and Jemima's like a person who like seems not to give a shit, and it was like never missed an appointment in her life. She's always surpr-. She's always swerving is Aaron weekly still your best friend. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's coming this weekend with his kid, and we're going to hardy. That's so nice. You see a punk? Yeah. We were. We were punks. He was one of the toughest kids in all detroi-, sweetest guy nicest smile, also could not guys out who messed with us. It was I it was I felt very safe. We both have very fucked up childhoods, Wayne and have males around us. We snuggled is kids. My mom thought we were gave for a while. Like we were each other's mail presence were Ye kind of Aaron weekly in you kinda dad at each other up big time and repainted each other yen. I won't ever love a human being in my life. Like, I love air weekly. I mean, I just were fused on a cellular level. Really nice. So does Jemima give you a confidence that then you may be build the whole house on is that the foundation or my overstating now, it's pretty big the Jemima things pretty big. And she's such a big part of like like, you know, she's a big part of everything I've ever done professionally which is not an accident that I was like you come with me. Like it made me feel like I could make a movie. Was there when we feel like I could make a show that she was there. It still makes me feel like I can do like and she didn't necessarily want to act correct. When you put around girls it was like she tried to quit like three times tried to quit after the first season tried to quit after the second season. Finally after the fourth season. She was like, I think I'm staying full good because you signed a contract for six years. He could be is like didn't give a shit. And now she's like now, I really wanna make more things with her in them. And I think we're figuring out what they are. But she's also a painter, and she has two kids. She's someone who is a very rich lifelike she'll go on some kick and she'll Louis by like nineteen vintage baby shirts. She does not currently have a baby she'll buy like nineteen vintage baby shirts with like Disney characters on them from the forties. Should be like a curator at a super fancy boutique in his shoes. I'm wearing today. She had them at my house. And I just thought they were so cool. I said can I have them into? Yeah. They were five dollars. And I'm like, they're the most beautiful thing. I've ever they are still every time and a lot of. Times. I'll say can I have it about a thing. And it'll be really fancy and she'll say, yeah, I like, she'll I'm looking for a diamond earring of hers that she lent me that I now can't locate sure which is rude. Yeah. But if someone lends you enough diamond earrings, you're just will they'll stop eventually. That's when you'll know she's actually pisses you'll ask her to borrow something. She'll say, I can't you can't do it. I'm done is an unhealthy relationship. Our whole dynamic like for years. She's been like, you know, like a big thing was I was sick for a long time. So we'd make plan because I really wanna do it. And then I'd be like, I'm sick and she'd be like fine. And I know that that meant she was mad, and then I call her and she just be like, I don't know if I can do this again, I don't wanna make plays funeral at. Then really what she wanted was for me to be like, I'm sorry. I love you. Or do you wanna come over? I'd say do you wanna come over? And then she'd go, no. But like she wanted to be asked like I've learned I've leaned into more like what her languages and now he don't fight. It I roll with it. And that feels better it is hard to know win, especially when you're younger, you have all these definitions of what it means for you to love somebody. So I've had friends like this where they just kept failing me in my mind because they were doing. The thing that if I did it would be a real loud declaration that. I don't care about you. But then you gotta remember like everyone's weird family values. Some other aspects of mine values like loyalty in being there for each other. So if somebody in my opinion, demonstrated the lack of loyalty bet was you might as well, tell me fuck you. I don't care about you. But in their families probably something else, and I'm probably triggering those things. It's all very confusing. Right. It is. And you have to realize like learning to show up for people the way, they want you to it's taken me a while to be like, oh, you learn more the longer you're on this planet. Like, you're not born knowing how to show up for everyone until your twenties like mine tire twenties for lots of reasons I felt like I was fucking up all the time. And I've been like why are my thirties easier? I'm like, oh, maybe I like, no more things are and can avoid situation. I felt I felt like my twenty s were me constantly walking into situations and going how did this suddenly become a disaster? Right. And I did a lot of houses happening to me. And. Now, I think a lot more about like, how am I happen to this? Yes. Yes. What would what people don't seem to recognize again as pretty good appointing. This Al that self-aggrandizement is equal in every way to self pity. Yep. It's they're both eagle maniacal narcissistic places to think that either you're so important or that your the victim of some grand universe conspiracy. You've made yourself way too important in both. Well, I hear the term narcissist. They often think it means somebody who like has a really great huge sense of themselves. But I think some of the biggest nurses, I know are some of the most self hating depressed tragic figures because they have a sense that like all of the universes wrongs are in reaction to them. Right will. Yeah. Another thing. Again. I'm on my eighth a slogan. My favorite one is. I'm not much, but I'm all I think about. I like someone told me about when an alcoholic family member goes into alanon. Great and others to people thinking about you all the time. Will they already wore? That's why you were a good man, totally. But you don't you don't have any negative qualities or I do do. I do get candidate for it. You said you had trauma. You know? I'm told me what it was. But generally, there's a lot of trauma. There's a lot of anxiety. There's a lot of this feels like actually a safe place to say this. I wasn't going to and you'll tell me what you think because I think it's such a kind of it's such as something I will talk about more. And I'm writing about now which has been really interesting, but I was thinking as I came here. I was like do. I mean, I was gonna tell you privately. But I was like do I say this joy, not because it's such a like, you don't want to sort of advertise it and seem like you're so proud of yourself, but I've been sober for six months. I have gray. I was can I guess what happened? Yeah. This could be a fun. Guess can't wait. So you have anxiety really bad the biggest epidemic. No one talks about everyone knows about the opioid epidemic. Love where you're going with this. But what people don't recognize that the the benzoate. Epidemic is equally is rampant. You've hit the nail on that. It's a great great tool at the beginning of it. If you have Xanax is great advance Craig can operate in the world. Yes. But it is. Klina pin? Okay. Kalana Pimm, but it's very diminished returns answer to that problem. As is our opiates. So is that it was Bente percent Quanta pin? It is a rough hang on a pen and say the one of the hardest things the detox from has been zones. It's shocking. It's shocking. What it feels like? And it was a real slow. I mean, I've had experience I've had my share fair share of opiate experience because I've been so sick at times I've had like ten abdominal surgeries in the last three years. So while so I know what that looks like and I've had to take opiates for extended periods of time three two three weeks. Getting them doesn't feel great. Great great. You've got a, you know, you've got a pretty hard core. Twenty four to forty six hours twenty four to forty eight hours. I know how many hours are in two days. But the thing about lot of time on the toilet to lot of toilet a lot of time like like like loudly you to lot of time to read a magazine, but you don't want to. I know what that feels like the Benza thing is crazy because it's also firstly. Let's just say it is the most normalize, especially in our industry. Everyone's gotta fuck in pill in their purse a thing in their bag. I wanna make sure I have it with me because I'm going to this event. I'm gonna take half of zanex. I haven't really clawing fly a lot half. An I was a real just like my I remember my mom saying to me this is not me blame her when I was a kid. She was like there's no reason to ever suffer. There's no reason to ever suffer. And when my anxiety was really bad as a kid. She'd say we're going to get you on medication because there's no reason to ever suffer. Sure. And she's right. There's no reason to put your you don't need to be a hero about things, but I really took that to heart. And when I was having crazy anxiety having to show up for things that I didn't feel equipped to show up for. I was like there's no reason for me to ever suffer and at the beginning, or you're also probably evaluating will I can't do that things with without some help. So I just won't be doing it. But I know I need. To do it. I know you need to do it. And when I take a cop in I can do it. Suddenly I felt the thing everybody talks about in the rooms everybody talks about writing. Which is I feel like the person I was supposed to be yet. For me. I'll go hall. This guy were friends with Gordon Keith. He said a best was like, we're all born to beers away from being happy so good, and it was gonna and away from being. Yeah. And it wasn't just happy. It was like it was like suddenly I felt like the part of me that I knew was there was like freed up to do her thing right yet. It it quiets the monster upstairs enough that you can be your best self, and I didn't have any trouble getting a doctor to tell me. No, you've got serious anxiety issues. You should be doing that. You should be taking this. This is what how you should be existing. Right. So it stopped being I take them when I fly and it started being like, I take one when I'm awake rut rusher is open. Yeah. And then I was like sudden when you build up a tolerance pretty quick to Benza. Very fast. So I took them on and off. And then I had I was diagnosed with pretty serious PTSD after my I have like a no of few sexual traumas in my past than I had all these injuries than I had my hysterectomy after a period of really extreme pain. And I was diagnosed with PTSD, and I was basically it stop feeling if I had panic attacks. It started Vilnai was a living panic attack. I just the only thing that was notable were the moments in the day where I didn't feel like I was going to barf in faint. And so at that point. And the reason I talk about this because I think that I know deeply that I'm not alone during that time, you know, and by the way, I was taking medication, and it was I was taking on a pin in at that point. It wasn't making it better. But I just thought if I don't take this. How much worse will it get will? That's the thing is I I'm happy for people to do anything that as you say prevent suffering in the David harbour was on here. And he he has the best grasp of all this way better than I understand it because he knows depression, really, really well. Well, he has a great take on it for what that's worth you want here. So I'm out of my depth when I say, but disin- general I don't think you you should suffer. But the reason I'll come out on the side of it is it'd be great. If it really works. If it doesn't just like for me. I'll call it worked for a decade. But then it does stop working in at that point. Now, you're double fucked 'cause the thing that did work doesn't work in Milwaukee more anxious, and you're having crazy rebounding Zion throughout the day and something I feel really blessed about is it stopped working and within. I mean, if I look back there was a solid three years where I was to put it lightly. Misusing sure benzoate even though it was all quote, unquote, doctor prescribed, and I had convinced somebody to tell me that this was the way I can recognize now the way that my own like manipulation played a part. Sure, there's a lot to be on a that said I had a back problem for eight years old. I got so were the back problem when? Totally. Yeah. Well, I just thought my thought was like I'm not in being because I take pills. I take pills because I'm in pain, and I'm not anxious because I take pills. I take pills because I'm anxious. Suddenly realized that entire thing is turn on its Ted and the doctor who helped me detox off of Benzes, which is like, by the way, like the one. Again, the reason I talk about this isn't just to be like look at me. I did it. It's to be like people should know. Like, nobody. I know who is prescribed these medications is told by the way when you try to get off this it's gonna be like the most hellacious acid trip you've ever had where you're fucking clutching the walls, and your hair is blowing off your head. And you can't believe you found yourself in this situation. Like now, the literal smell of the inside of pill bottles makes me wanna throw up like we say the amount of trauma. I have just around that. And I still feel like my brain is recalibrating itself to be able to experiencing Ziobro. But even though the peaks of joy that I've experienced in my six months as righty are. There's nothing else. Like it on this planet. Yeah. People don't recognize pills and booze. And all that stuff. Does vary. Affectively help you deal with the lows, but it also then lops off the highs it let us start living in a very finite zone of basically, no feelings, no feelings, and I look back at who. I thought that medication was allowing me to be more myself. And I actually see I can see all of the things that sort of the world wrought upon me. I don't blame myself for my illness. I don't blame myself for my for the sexual abuse. I experienced I don't blame myself for the physical abuse. I experience I don't blame myself for the challenges of being a woman in this world and an anxious woman in this world and living in this body. But I do see the way that I medicate it myself negatively impacted people around me and decimated my decision making and hurt my creativity. And so I just feel literally like on my knees grateful every single day at mom. My worst moment in my life. I mean, yes, really hard things had happened to me. And I'm able to more clearly now see what they were. And like how they were turning points in my life, and like, I always thought might whole life. I thought I'm going to work my ass off. And then I'm going when I'm thirty. I'm going to get pregnant, and that's going to slow me down on a mobile. And then when I was thirty I literally that part of my body revolted, I had ten certain nine surgeries to try to be able to keep my uterus. Ultimately, couldn't and it was the deepest grief. I've ever had in my life. But before that at my lowest point, I was in a relationship with a really amazing loving person. I'd want a couple of Golden Globes won a couple of golden gloves. I had an incredible career. I had a family that loved me. I owned three houses. And I felt like I would go outside and like trees would look like they were menacing may like it was so dark, and the thing that I think is so scary about and really what I care about. Now. Like, I spent a lot of time. Oh, twenty twenty. What is? My cause because I care about everything I care about human rights and Justice. So it's like it's easy for me to throw my name behind a billion liberal causes. That are meaningful to me. But the thing that I care the most about is the intersection for women of trauma, mental health and addiction because I just think that in that nexus is like I can see how I would have been lost to the kind of like gravitational pull of my own pain and drowning out and I think we lose so many good women. We talk a lot about like, what are things that are holding women back and one of the things that I think is holding when MAC besides, you know, we know it's societal by as we know that it's, you know, there's a pay gap. We know, but also like the lack of resources around like tons of women have experienced trauma. We think PTSD is like reserved for Iraqi soldiers or whatever, but tons of women are experiencing incredible amounts of trauma as this past week with Cavanaugh showed us like the rain hotline went down because so many women were retraumatize. By listening to that testimony. And so I feel like my job having survived, and, you know, by the grace of God surviving every day and staying lean and staying in the world, but I feel like my job is to try to give a voice to that story. Now as up followed you over the years, what is infuriated me several times in where you and I- diverge, and you're so much more Volvo than I am is you are very liberal your outspoken proponent for a lot of meaningful change. And yet you've been devoured by the left like five or six times. Yes in the always fuck it infuriates me. It's one of my complaints about our site. Is that we just can't wait devour one another, and you just don't see that on the right as much aid definitely figured out. How to keep the cross talk to a minimum. So to speak like, they are really like their instep with each other. Even if they privately fucking despise each other. You're like I one time stupid. Unle referred to Rizza med on Ellen as be Indian. And a he is Pakistani. Visit turns out I mean, he's lived in England. So he's neither. But I did that in. I got you know, several hundred people calling me a racist on Twitter, and my knee jerk reaction was like you could be tweeting David Duke, you're you're you're choosing to use that energy on me. It just feels like it Arthur bigger fish to fry than me sane that it why is that where your energy is going, and I get defensive, but I've seen you in the face of that like apologized people when I personally would have either been incapable. I just don't didn't think they deserved an apology. You seem to have this really benevolent like it doesn't it's not gonna kill you or paying you to just ignore that they're hurt and keep it moving. How do you? How do you go through those? And what what happens when those things happen to you? I for sure made mistakes I've made big mistakes. And it's funny because I was never a drinker. I was never a pot smoker. I never did quote, unquote, recreational drugs. So it never occurred to me that my judgment could be impaired in any way. 'cause I was like I'm just taking the medication. I need to be alive. Right. And now, I look, and I'm like, no all my senses weren't intact. And maybe I wasn't being as sensitive or as self aware as I could have been. I'm not saying I mean, there are plenty of times that I did things people didn't like where I was stone cold in Zion, easy ridden sober. But there were also times like I think my judgment was generally impaired by my obsessive desire to escape my own pain. And I think that the thing about apologizing now there's a whole narrative like all Lena Dunham ever does get into shit and apologize for it. But I'm like, it's not our job, isn't that any long-term relationship is just like a fucking series of Apollo the nice of going to be much easier for you. Most people what he wants my apology sitting there like the. New thing is I'm like, how do I because I am such an obsessive apologize or like someone like crashes into me? And I say, I'm sorry. Like, I can't my dad used to make a rule he'd say. No more saying, I'm sorry today in no more saying, I love you because it would be like I'd wake up and I'd be like sorry LMU. Sorry, everything. And he was like, no, John. So like had a meaningfully apologized, and how to apologize to people in the way that they wanna be apologized to like I want a super verbose apology in which you explain to me what a wonderful person. I am and how I've changed your life. Somebody else may just want you to fuck in shelf for their birthday party in shut the fuck up. Right. Writes about yourself for five fucking. I don't wanna talk about it. Can we just go get sushi, and you can be the fuck quiet is like, yeah. Yeah. So I'm working men's for a living a living amends so to speak. Yeah. Was there one though that was harder for you. Where you were like, I'm about to apologize to somebody that I don't feel like deserves an apology a couple public apologies where I've been like, I can't fucking believe. I have to say this right now. Like, I cannot believe I'm trying to think if there's any ones that really stand out to me right now, there's a few where I've been like, maybe this is a good point. But the person who brought this up as a fucking asshole ri-. I can't like like I'll look at their Twitter, and I'll be like this person's called out seventy two celebrities in the last thirty two hours, so helpful to occasionally look at people's timelines. Then when it's called just go look at Britney Spears, you're tois, and I'm like, oh, you're not regulating your emotions at all. No in the night quickly realized like, oh, this person is in the hunt of prestige in a call out culture in the most generic way possible in like, I don't need to be fodder for this person at whatever I use let blow pass me, but it is weird because we have access to too many people. Here from too many people just no matter what it's hard to know of what you said was ninety eight percent. Received an imprint she wanted or if what you said is actually offensive to forty percent of people. It's almost impossible to know. It's kind of like when you have a great meal rarely to someone call the manager over to say like, hey, just want to let you know. My my server was awesome. And the food was great. But if you find a toenail in your steak, you're gonna and tell them yet, it's up is a much bigger motivator. So it's hard to know what your message, whether you know, alternately in a utilitarian sense. It was a win. Or if it was a blunder right hundred percent. And it's also just like at a certain point. And this has been a big part of the last. I keep saying the last six months, and that is six months ago is when I was like, no more substances that could alter my mind or going into my body. But the last six months are also when I was like, I need to take care of myself, or I'm never going to be able to make anything again like I had to look at my life and me like I want to be an old lady like my favorite filmmakers Agnes far done. She's French and she's in her late eighties. Early nineties, and she was just on the cover of interview magazine. She's a Sheik bitch. I wanna be fucking eighty eight and waking up at four in the morning to like write my magnum opus. I don't wanna be thirty four and like withering away in my own guest house. Yeah. So it's like you have to just really than at certain point. You have to go like, okay. There's here's where the rubber hits the road. Like, I'm going to start taking care of myself because it's no longer glamorous for me to stay up all night, drinking bottled, Starbucks and like pounding through this and then like a withering away with anxiety tomorrow. And so a big part of my last six months has also been like, how am I going to be cool with the gap as Ribot gap in perception between how the public sees me. And who I know I am. Yeah. It's not even about how I see myself. It's like when I close my eyes, and I meditate like the warm like light of my own like essential being is like indirect opposition to the picture. That's been painted of me. And like, how am I going to be okay with that? And it turns out the answer is just like minute by minute hour by hour like try. Stay connected to that feeling is how you're going to be okay with it. You can for more armchair expert. 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Sign up at armchair dot robinhood dot com. That's armchair dot Robin, Hood dot com. So I've only hung out with Jemima once or twice I think Chris knows her and she came over one time to our house. I said to her like, hey, can I talk to you on the side here about something? I do the movie with Adam driver, and I loved him from girls, I was excited to meet him. And it turns out were he's from a little town in Michigan right next to where my grandparents owned a motel now way. And we're going to get on famously. And I was like oh my God. You're from water like my grandparents hotels in Sturgis. And he's like, oh, okay. And I was like oh really do that. That's that. And that that was that. And then we had to promote this movie together. I tried. Yup. Yup. And I tried maybe three other times to connect with him. Never door was never cracked a kept knocking on it. So I said to Jemima is said to me, and she goes, no, no. He was kind of like that. An intro all of us. Craziest girls at house like what a superpower he's smart enough to just not give any we were. All I have to say this to is that we were nuts for Adam Dr because gives it in dribs and drabs. He's not mean right is just coming in. He's doing his job. So well, he's not looking like gab with you about your cat craft service. A key is doing his fucking job. And I think you can tell when he does press like Adam is there to like do the best version of the fucking thing and get out, and I definitely like as a especially before I was like a little more like emotionally regulated as like an like a people pleasing site Ville, Jonker approval junkie. I was constantly putting myself. In the path of Adam driver, if you're listening. I'm sorry about how many times you're just looking at your screen, and I was standing in front of you present you with two different apples and asking which one you might like to eat like I was just and then if I couldn't get it. I'd be like did I do something. Is there something like atoms behavior? It was a great example of like Minar schism was me being like Adam seems a little tired today. I don't know what I did. And it's like, maybe you just like he was like working on his lines like, but yes, it's a superpower. And ladies go crazy frat offer. A he had me on the run. I I got no business with him. We're not gonna Faulk. Here's Adam he's like the coolest and in every sense of the word like I always the definition of like, a cool cool person is like they kind of don't seem like they're like Leuven on your time clock. But I have never known a pro or man, and he's so good on SNL. I didn't see it yet. But I'm curious always great at it. Because it's an interesting thing, which is like he's you know, like when you meet him quite of quite a serious, focus, gentlemen. But he's he's down to clown in the right context. He's down to clown. He's a deeply supportive person to do a scene with like, even if he just put your hand on your shoulder. You're like, oh like he is all about making the work work out. I'm really the only time I've ever really felt like I was like an actor is acting without him. 'cause I'm like, oh because he can make like a fucking rock feel like they're going to win an Oscar because. Yeah. So good. And he's delivering you your thing. Like on a platter? That's how I felt was Peter Krause I was like, oh, he's sucking me into his. Oh, yeah. That makes Mueller special little world. Yes. Like he is so trained in so skilled that he would create a reality for both of us. He'd suck me news little bubble. When you did that on girls, you did this punk rock thing in your new. And you did all this stuff it then you inadvertently became like the face of bravery was that like what I didn't mean to do that. I didn't mean to become the face of anything. And then I had a while where I bought into my own mythology. And I was like okay was made the face of this thing. So I better do this thing and something I've really been enjoying. We're now living in a time. Like when I first started piping up about stuff like a lot of celebrities wooden say who they were voting for. They wouldn't talk about politics. They wouldn't talk about abortion. Like, it wasn't now that we're living in a house gape people are talking about it a lot of people are talking about it. And suddenly I've been doing this where I'm like. Okay. A lot of very cool women have this covered. I did it for a while nine gonna hang back. So I talk about things if I think it's very very important or have a particular. Her take on it. Or I try to offer my support where it's needed. But I don't think of myself like, I'm just like, okay. I'm off in my cave writing. Yeah. Do you have a type of guy you have a dream type great mass gin, and it makes me feel good to be asked type of guy. I mean, it's changed over time. When I was younger, I was like I've always liked to musician. We did you have a favorite heartthrob from childhood. This isn't really where yet I have a couple. But like, I mean, I was obsessed with in order to Capri. Oh when everybody else was, but it was like like a sickening love like I was sick over had it for note Campbell or my stomach hurt so bad when I'd watch party of five. But then the person who I felt an I've told him this. He knows in high school the person who I like wanted to shoot myself over. Yes, I shouldn't be using gun metaphors time in history of I'll give person I wanted to like OSA better. If you want to slit, your karate Geyer artery, sometimes on people on Twitter will be like like. Like, I'll be like off you're being so casual about mental illness. It's like at a certain point him link. I'm so mentally ill. I happen. My whole life. Yeah. I also feel like you don't own the world like when you've dealt with trauma. Like the last thing you need is to have your approach to managing it. You're healthy approach to managing which is humor. I would argue humor's the healthiest way around these issues. Like, I'll apologize for a lot of shit. But I'm not gonna apologize for leaky using humor to get through my life. So that I don't roll off. It's like when you have a parent die the shit you and your siblings joke about like stuff, my brother, and I were joking about while. My dad was day was horrific. Anyone that would you'd it? But man, it helped us so much. It's so fun and funny when it's happening all my grandma was dying the best time with my cousin. We love our grandma. We were. So it was horrible the women were around her. And it was like, you know, it was peaceful ish, but it was really stressful, and we were in the room with her and my cousin, and I kept doing this posed likely were Japanese. You know, when you see those pictures online, and it's like a tourist, and they don't realize they're in front of like a car accident. I thought it was funny to kinda stand in front of our grandma and like flash apiece. Sign and smile to each other. And then my cousin was like, we do this. I could lose my job. And I was like we're in a room alone. Making us feel better. And grandma would want us to feel good Emma likes jokes. I just just in a Marais is shared this in Toronto last weekend. Which was I even had I s nurse to take the photo of me. And I held a pillow over my dad's face while he was sleeping, and I sent it to my brother and said just tying things up here in Detroit. Misery thick. But he and I are both. It was so funny to us, of course. And it's like, and by the way, the nurses know that you need it the amount of jokes. I made when I was in the I was in the hospital for eleven days last fall for my it'll it'll be a year since I had my hysterectomy November. And I was in the hospital for eleven days leading up Russa, my mom had it when we were kids. That's the only time I've ever seen her taken out. Oh, it was so rough. And like I was sick to the core of my being and I held up this sign. I this made me and I've never shared this picture. But it makes me so happy. It's me in my hospital. Gown standing up like, you know, when you have to take your done like IV stand to the bathroom, and I'm holding up a small sign that someone gave me his Trump loves rape. It's my favorite protests picture. Mom had been I'm gonna take it. But don't post it. Host in or poor. Parents that have had to go along with all my mom took like the most beautiful picture of me in the hospital. And she was like you if you're gonna post anything post this. It was like like me sleep land. This is disgusting. An embarrassing Whitby never finished your sentence. Who you we're gonna shoot yourself over Jimmy Fallon? It was illness inducing how much I loved him. I thought about all the time. I literally thought about them all the time. And I've told him that. I mean, I was sprung a Jimmy Fallon. Naval was the moment when you got to tell him where you like, I want us talk show. I told him before I was just like place action. Yeah. It is just tell them in a hallway. He's does a lot of wiggle room. But if it's a talk show, it's like there's the in inborn boundary of the talk show. And he was so nice about it. And you know, he's like an adult man with kids in the whole thing. He's not like, you know, like a twenty four year old and a giant sweater. Like, that's us. Mary guys with kids. We live off of those comments. It can get us through a lot just to even know someone felt that way about horse. And like if I hear someone things literally anyone becomes attractive to me when I hear they think I'm attractive off me do. You'd be off my feel truly the opposite. I'm like, oh, there's something wrong with you. But but yeah. But then that's nice. I love having crashes. Hat on me. Anyone can become appealing. Yeah. Again, I should be more evolved in this. But in fact, I've said this on here, you could say anything about me. And I mean, it you could go Dax is the dumbest fucking idiot in his nose is so gross. I wanna fuck him. I'm so good. I'm like, I didn't even I'm no longer heard the first thing you just hers on how those gross things about me. Make you horny for me. And now every life is out the window. That's out the window. Well, this stay your office forever. Sadly, this is getting torn down. But I'm game on buildings humping right behind us. That will become this new. That's so cool. Are you hear all the time? Monica. I he here all the time. Yeah. So cool twain her pain him and Kristen, yeah. You'll hear all the time. Yeah. We're in a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle. I love it. Now. I'm really socked in to telling stories like it's really where I wanna be where my energy is going and the idea of nailing, my public persona or like killing it in my public life has really become like something. That was interesting for me that happened last week. Like, I did a big long interview for a profile. That's coming out around my new show. And I for the first time it was like, I didn't say anything funny, and I don't care. Yeah. I was so not funny. I was just like, yeah. I have PTSD. I didn't feel good last year. It was horrible year. I like to be at home with my cats. I'd like to watercolor. This is my show. Like, it was just like, yeah. They'll let desire to present because the desire to be funny in the desire to be liked and the desire to present has actually got me in a lot of trouble in the past. Yeah. Oh me over oh, I've gone away. Too far in it. I've gone too far. It has not been good. It has not been a good scene or I made a joke. I'm going to you've done, obviously, Hollywood Foreign Press stuff. I just did this week and. For those who don't understand what Holly Hollywood Foreign Press is they're basically they've left their country of origin. And they are international journalists that cover a an area their country, Croatia whatever, but they live here in Hollywood in you, do these kind of big interviews where there's like thirty of them. And then they disseminate that to their home country, and it gets out around the world. Well, because they're all foreign in humor in comedy is pretty regional. You can get into hot water pretty easy making jokes in front of them, which I did one time we were doing parenthood panel in the question was like we will notice. Crosby has a black child us with a black woman. But you never talk about is she she is black. Whether you know, he's trying to ask like, why aren't we ever address the fact that we're an interracial relationship, and I know Kate hymns as like doesn't really want to handle this question. So I'm like I'm going to let him off the hook. Yeah. Oh, he goes. Why why did you choose to have? That's what it was. Why did you choose to put Crosby internet racial relationship? And why don't you talk about? And I said, Well, I I got this. You know, the the show's based on the moving in the movie my character had a half black child. And once you have half black child will be honest. We were just painted into a corner. And I see all these people either writing in there with their pens this direct quote or typing my direct, quote, not a single chuckle, and I realize, oh, this was not obvious to them that I was being funny and sarcastic they're gonna you're gonna read in Croatia. They were painted in cornered at a higher. And also the other thing, that's amazing. Once you've have like child, your pain into corner has also an amazing thing because you're like you're like, I'm also clearly making fun of you for asking question, which is thing that doesn't come off. Totally. You're like, I'm mocking you for even bring another big enough. Dick to say to you. That's a stupid question. We shouldn't have to say that they can just be in a fucking relationship without doing an episode, of course. But I'm not gonna say that. So yes, I'm trying to do with by a joke. And it's like I've had the app in a bunch of times and also my desire to make everybody feel comfortable. Like, that's a big thing. I had to face this year. When I was thinking about all these issues of sexual harassment height is that sometimes men would do things that crossed my boundaries. And I was uncomfortable with and I'd be so uncomfortable that I would like rise to meet them where they were. So it's like if someone made like a sexual joke to me, I would almost like be so scared that they were going to be in. Fairest and like I win project into their embarrassment. But like I'd be like making a sexual joke back to someone who just made my skin crawl and made me want to quit my job. And so then something you're like, I'm playing along with this thing that I don't wanna be playing along with in by the way. This is why the whole issue is about a trillion times more complicated than we're giving it credit for because there's something like that. Right. Like, so I can make a pervy joke and make a lot of pervy jokes. I like to think I know when people are up for that or not their thing. That's nice those year. I've been noticing actually on this podcast is that your pervy jokes. Are usually directed at yourself and their self effacing. Like, you're not here to make anybody else feel and I've noticed this when I've listened you're not here to like project onto anybody else's sexuality or make them feel like you're making assumptions about who they are sexually emotionally I try not to. But I I certainly fuck up by the way that you know, a moment not batting a thousand percent. But this is why I think it's so much more complicated than we recognize. We were watching. Thing. I wanna say it was sixty minutes in they were talking about the sexual harassment. That's been happening with chefs around, and they they detailed a few different examples. But one of them was I believe it was someone either managed or work that spotted pig which is one of my favorite restaurants in this manager or owner owners spotted pick on a lot of trouble. In one of the examples was he leaned over in a car and kiss this employee of his and she didn't say anything to him. So let me just I want to be very delicate about how I explain this. I was watching it. And what happened was he he went in and he kissed her in the maybe grabbed do not even sure what all happened. But when she was talking about the experience, she was paralysed. She was absolutely paralyzed. When it started happening, and what has never heard to me as a guy in which should occur to me. Because I read a great book called on killing talks about that. We think that humans have two mechanisms fight or. Flight reality ninety percent of the way animals deal with things is posture and submit we have way more hard wiring for a guy to go. Fuck you you fucking pussy. And then the guy just goes kind of blank like all right? I'm not gonna do anything. I'm not gonna say sorry Nora. I'm going to submit your posturing, I'm going to submit. That's why guys didn't fire back when soldiers were storming them shooting at them, your brain registered, that's a posture. I'm going to submit do nothing. I'm not gonna fire back or do anything. I'm just gonna go paralyze. So it's weird for me as a guy trapped in my own view and worldview, if a guy leaned over and tried to kiss me, I would go. Oh, I don't want to do that in. So I stupidly assume anyone that doesn't wanna kiss me. If I lean over will tell me, oh, I don't wanna kiss you. I'm never thinking that the person might actually feel paralyzed by my approach and give me no signals and that that could be happening. That's where it's like it's just like in. Inborn power structures where like everybody has to kind of go. Okay. This person's not gonna tell me. No. So I'm going to understand that I'm not supposed to lean over and try to kiss anyone who I have basic power over like if I'm your boss even little things. Like, if I'm a lot more wealthy than you. When you don't have a job. And you think I might help leads like if you're the service provider, and I'm the customer like there's just all kinds of dynamics in which it's even harder to assert yourself. So what you're saying is like any woman being kissed by any man might freeze up. But especially a woman who's being kissed by save the owner of the restaurants that she is then gonna have all these let's go through this person gives me my income. This person could tell other people in the business that I did something this person could hurt my career this because I still have a thing like I can make a lot of choices about my own career. I have as much power as I personally need. And if I think I've offended or pissed off or step on the toes of someone who seemingly has more power or more money or more prestige than me my first. Thought is like they're gonna take everything from me. Yeah. 'cause that's always my thought about everything if that is going to get taken from me yen weirdly think that the way out of all of this or through all of this is going to be like we're going to have to amp up our communication about a bazillion percent. Because again, what that guy did was wrong. There's no question. But also that story needs to be shared. So that us guys who only know how we would deal with that. And we're never even comprehending that some of my not say anything, we need to know that that's the thing. And we'd probably need to ask like I'd like to kiss you or whatever there's just we're going to have to amp up every quite up bar communication. And that's how I feel about. Like, I wanna amp up my communication with everybody. And unless somebody directly says to me like I don't want to talk about this. I'm gonna keep trying to about it. But what's interesting is again, you have to Lena Dunham has a huge mallet that you probably don't even know you have an. A second by second basis. Which is you have a ton of power. But I can't imagine you walk around feeling like you have a ton of power rial, so powerless. And I think some of that is just I think that there's a sense of powerlessness that comes with being a woman, especially women at this time in I mean, a woman at every time in history. But right now, we've had this regression into into like power that we thought we had is gone. But also, I think like all of our trauma gives us a sense of powerlessness. So many of us walk around feeling like the person that we were in some way on our internally feeling the person we were in some way on our worst today even on our best day. And then it's weird because I always feel like if I do realize I have power like flex it at the wrong moment or the way. Like, it's like I say, yes. And I say, yes. And I say, yes. And like I experienced this week. I was working on this movie. This Quentin Tarantino movie, I'm honored to be on it. It's an amazing experience. It's a dream. But like because of my autoimmune stuff it's hard for me to be in exposed in the sun for really long time gets my gets my. Shake going. And I know if I if that I'm gonna feel sick later. Yeah. And so there was a shot that like where I was probably in the deep background and we're out in the sun for a long time. And you know, they were being nice in everyone was being nice, and we got sunscreen, we've got umbrellas, but suddenly like, my brain starts go after a full, you know, two months of thinking I'm garbage in garbage on Mike beverage. My brands like I'm a very busy woman have seventeen jobs, but my son like this in the crowd excuse me like Sunday. It's like it never comes out at the moment that it would be useful to me. Gore's always comes out at the moment where it's like garbage bratty nece and to do anything with it would be offensive at like, not what am I gonna do storm out of the Shah? And I'm already in established in literally at this moment, or I texted my agent. And I was like listen if they're gonna have me in the deep background of the scene, we should get a double what she got. She got. And then I'm like, oh, I'm older than these other girls. I should advocate for them. Unlike and they should get doubles for the other girls, but not just entails putting more girls. Getting a mile so long getting paid and we have like umbrellas and sunscreen Maguire, am I being this way? Everything's alternately just me plotting to get back to bed, right? My whole life is a slow crawl band. Yovany to force yourself to remember him. When you first saw Pulp Fiction the first time. What limb you would have cut off to have been a part of that literally? And that's how I every single day. I would then like I would like aunt myself up. It'd be like grow your Quentin your Quentin Tarantino nothing you in a buck and Quinton. Offline a fucking Tino motherfucker deer has like the most fascinating person to watch work. So when I got to be close to that. I was but when he was like way up at you know, he doesn't have video village, which is so cool. But when he was way up at the lake top of a hill. And I was at the bottom of a hill in the deep background of a shot, you can better. And also, my friend Margaret who was in the scene with me. She was doing an impression of me. 'cause like I'd be like, hey is this the last shot and the and the like second aid? You would be like, no, we've got three more. We're gonna go. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great great. Yeah. Right. And she was like the way you're saying the meanest thing I've ever this is such a blessing. I looked at my like life the other day. I was telling my Janet who runs my company, I was like, I just took a look at sort of my ledger. My as my grandma would call my income ledger and not one thing that is like supporting my life or the lives of people that I love or my employees or the charities. I care about comes from me having to be anywhere. On anyone else's time. And that to me is the greatest blessing in the world. And that is actually something that's come to me in the last six months like like like, I was like, okay, it's gonna take a little while for the gifts of like getting off of medication and being in my life, and like the joys of it all to appear and actually there's been like an incredibly light. There's in Lincoln incredible. As I've like figured out what my next phase looks like like, it's been I've been able to make some extremely authentic choices will. And I just want to clarify because I think it could be seen as either era gate or ungrateful. But I would argue that it's incredibly healthy. Because I now look at situations where all hear what this shooting of the Leonardo movie the revenue was like I have crew members from my movie had been on that movie. And I hear about that experience. And I I now I'm of the opinion. No, I would not be willing to suffer for six months and be miserable. So that nothing I was in would be heralded his. Great. And I think it's healthy. 'cause I now recognize like, oh, that's my eagle eagle wants to be in something that everyone looked up to. But but and then of may my life miserable just to validate, my egos. So it's not healthy for me. When I think that's one of the reasons that like people like why are actor so bummed out all the time because they are have this amazing job in it's their dream. They're finally achieving their dream. But I think there's this thing that happens where it's like. You're a performer in high school in you love being in plays in it's super fun. And you put on plays with your friends, and you were hearse after school, you found a place. That's you. Then you get into the movie industry in your literally like, your body's of prop the studio tells you to lose weight, they add hair your hair, your like kinda like, you know, ruffled over Lee kinda feel like a little bit over touched and degraded and made into something. So obviously there's much harder jobs own Audra strating things. But it's like, it's not the thing that gave you all this joy. And like, I always try to have a lot of empathy like if an actors real bitch onset, and I'm not saying bitch about a woman like I mean, like a guy girl, whoever an asshole asshole someone's a fucking asshole about their seen in. They're trying to change their lines of they're asking you why they're doing something that is in many ways on this particular project, their only source of power, and we all wanna feel powerful in our lives are I think a lot of. It's just fear of giving started hundred images star a quite often. Nearly as bad as you thought. It was going to be in being a person is tiring. And it's scary. And it's scary. No matter where you are. And there's very few people in the world that I can't muster something, resembling empathy for although there's certainly a couple sure. But I've also had to realize we come into our careers thinking that as you said like I had a lot of thoughts. Like, if I could only, you know, host SNL one time and go to you know, one party where my my dress has a train. I'm never gonna feel mess. Ball host us anelle on then. And I'll be approved. I am valuable. Yeah. But my thought was always in then I can get in bed forever. Right. Right. Or the ultimate fantasy was just to to just be done. Yeah. I relate to that. And I have got a really police myself on that. Because I because when you do that or when I do that what I what I realize is. I'm forgetting that the process is so fun. And I'm looking only at the results, and then I want to do nothing, but that's a bizarre fantasy to have. Yeah. Like being productive in itself is a value and gives you self esteem, the thing that I learned joyful I ever since when I'm making something, and I don't know if people are going to like it or if they're not gonna like it or connect to it if they're not going to connect to it like what a pleasure. The thing though, that I think is helpful in this writer, Don Roose. I don't know if you know who he is. But he's a wonderful, man. I look up to him so much. But he one time told me like, you know, when you say my career that your ego when you say, my work, that's healthy. So like stop thinking about like this project is blank for my career. That's that's a story. That's like something you think's going to be evaluated. But my job is to sit down and write on a computer, something like careers, just my activity. I knew he is to drive me crazy 'cause I would say to my dad like, I'm so sick. But I have to go do this. Thing. And he's like what is half. Do. You mean? And I'm like, I'm going to be in a ton of trouble. If I don't and what has trouble mean. And I'd be like it's going to be terrible. Like, I'm not gonna be able to do the things I want to in the future, and he'd be is that true. And he would just be asking the questions, and I'd be like, you don't get it. You don't get anything. Was actually saying like there's almost nothing, and I've learned that actually one of the great gifts of being sick has been sometimes I just have to stop and listen to my body, and there's truly almost nothing like do. I regret being sick. And missing one barmitzvah. Like any daughter is not mitzvah. I would've done anything to be there. Right. The rest of it. Like, yeah. Is fine Vel with all that said the remaining thing that could get me very horny would be to be an tarintino movie that lets me is like a zero s rations left book. Fuck and af I could be in one of those ten movies. He's going to make I would love to watch him work. I would just. Yeah. So you get a call or did you audition? You got a call. Right. I had a meeting with him, and we talked and I've been a, Hugh, I love the female characters that he writes. I care a lot about his work. It's been very formative for me, I expressed that and then. I got to go to the set. And the first day I called up my friend Mary on the way home from set. And I was squealing like a kid who went to DisneyWorld. But I just couldn't believe you know, he doesn't have cell phones on his set. Really is everybody leave their cell phone in. It's not some crazy. Like, I'm afraid you're gonna leak my thing. It's like he's just like be present. He's just like being here. So everyone's doing their job. No one's like checking their fantasy football. No one's reading an e book. It's like so cool as you're traveling back to like ninety eight I couldn't believe it. And I was like everyone is so focused. I made friends I was excited. Vinnie stood for having a cellphone, did you witness that seen it? Although I did at one point ask a PI was take Brad Pitt soft away. So. Yeah, it was like, Nope. But I never saw pull it out while he's smart enough not to pull it out. He so fuck as Bayard Jesus Christ died. I mean, he's everything that you would hope that he would be I saw him once in his this morning. Actually, I don't want to brag on. I only saw him in constume the day. He wasn't in his constume. And I was like where do you even get a white t shirt? Look all thank you. Maybe he just wears everything that westall look is just so cool. And he's so nice. He's nice to everyone knew remembers. Everybody's name. Like, you're like others reason, you get to be a movie star. Yes. You're better at things in the average process. A little I've learned a really cool trick from a a camera operator a Scorpio Afrikaner. Oh, he taught me this really cool trick. Which is he had read that you learn people's names better when you need something from them if you need something from a person you will remember their name. So what he does because the camera, but here's more than anyone. They got remember like the standings name, the the the person who's just guest starring that day because he's going to have to say, Michael will you step here Stipe there. So what he does is. He hangs out at crafty in the morning, and he's just kind of sitting there with his coffee when that person comes up introduced himself, many says, oh, Michael will you hand me a sugar. He creates a task in. I need. So that he needs something from them for one moment. And that's how he doesn't. I was like, that's brilliant. I'm so bad at it. And I had to have I had the worst realization ever as like, oh, I'm so bad at names. I don't remember everyone's name, then I had to admit to myself. Oh, I know the producer's name another director's name. I know everyone above me's name. That's really good. You grappled with it and got all it's disgusting. I know everyone that's above me's name. But it kind of answered he later answer that question is I need something from those people or I want something from those behind. So then I've learned their name. But what I found is when I direct and everyone's name every person on the cruise name because again, I need stuff from them. I neon you know, the prop master to get this thing. Jeffrey Johnson one hundred percent I had an antagonistic relationship with the prop master one season as an actress or a show Senate show runner. But like, you know, when you kind of make somebody I don't know if you ever do this like the joking, but of your constant rage. And I am. Direct. I felt comfortable directing it all at this white man whose name is Glen. And I'd like to hear apologized to Glenn who didn't deserve. I wasn't like bean to him. But anytime there was a problem onset. I'd be like is on Glenn like, I was like sassy, and you know, what the root of it was one time. I was supposed to be drinking coffee in a scene, and Glenn did something really insane unforgettable. Yeah. He poured Pepsi in a Cup. And then added milk. I guess you liked didn't have coffee at that minute or at happens, which I get. But like, I was like, well, aren't you really trying to get me to take a sip of Pepsi and milk in this scene? Like, what do you think gonna happen? I'm not this good in actor Pitt. Could do it. I can't do it would derail you you didn't finish Tarantino. So you had a meeting with him. Are you loud to even you probably not say anything is or no. Or no get genres known movies about Hollywood in the late. Sixties awesome. It's amazing is the title known called once upon a time in Hollywood, okay grin. And so you have a great mandates known that I play a Manson girl. Manson. Blue is public knowledge. And there has been a photo of me, and my costume ten showing your underwear ratatouille Mandorf, Brad Pitt. And so I wear a kind of fun Linney slash crocheted kind of moot. Dress her and kind of an an a kind of big you Asli ethnic earring rings situation, and some hair extensively owns the Manson stuff is so much more interesting than I had originally known the guy wrote a really detailed book, and he was on MPR or something I heard like the fact e- like he was preparing for a race war. He's trying to instigate a race war China instigate a race war. Because what he thought was going to happen was that his people were gonna find a city under the desert go into it. When it was going to be a race war instigated by them instigated by them black people were going to win. But then lackey wouldn't be used to running the country. So in whatever number of years, it will be in shambles. And then they'd crawl out from under the desert and laid Cueva waiting game there for a minute. But they were in-depth like like we. Of them. They I think they were into paying goes where they were generally, you know, they were generally hanging out in Chatsworth. Oh in Chatsworth grey. Yeah. Which is where we've been filming. Okay. And he also unbeknownst to me is he was an aspiring musician. Right. Most desperately wanted to earn nail lable on the internet mirror. Terrible. They're not not a good singer. He's not like a hot talent that everyone's looking by. And what is and he was using those Gaels originally to sleep with record, executives and stuff. So that he would get his foot in the door. It's so weird because he had two very different messages. What was like is going to be apocalypse and race war and then side project, I need to become a popular. Hang on the whole interesting about the Manson story to me is like I feel like we have such a cultural obsession with it with him and with the girls and with what was that dynamic? But the thing I feel like we don't say, and what was interesting to me in playing this. And in researching the only part of ever like researched for right is like what it really is a story about sexual abuse is a story about sexual abuse. The wait how did he people like how did he get all those women was he so charismatic now what he did was the same thing that pimps do which is who are gonna which is zero in on women who already had an enormous amount of trauma figure out how to make them feel temporarily special then dominate them in exactly the way that they were used to being dominated. So it was like a retraumatize Asian and perpetuation of their sexual shame and fear and humiliation and mixed with probably Stockholm syndrome. That's part of a two, right? I'm one hundred percent. Sure. And now there's like women who have spoken about it since. And what the experience? Is like, but like, you know, I think we all like to think like oh my God. These people are crazy. But we don't like to think is like a lot of us. Yeah. Because of our different shit would be. I mean, I've had a few kind of like experiences where I've like gotten a little too into like, you know, an LA health guru or whatever and then suddenly gone link own now like it's just yeah. Oh, my God, my friend Russell took a picture of me the other day wearing multiple layers of rust colored clothing than did a more better between Sheila, I I felt really cool. I'm obsessed in so in love with Ma non Sheila, she's my number one. She's your hall pass Falk in a I told Monica I get a time machine making two stops her grandma when she was eighteen sexiest woman I've ever seen in my life. L Monica's mad grandma is the hottest woman that's ever walked planet or oh my God. She's she is a smoke show. Holy shit. You're going to stop it Monica's, grandma, then straight Tamang on when she's billed net city. What a powerful lady she. I know we'll she would. Good to win. She fuck you up in shack. And then she says you out the whole ride. I'd be of love it. It'd be so sorry feel so and also because you're like a person with a lot of energy and intensity. Like, it'd be nice to free almost you just be shut down. My she'll love it's like those like those powerful businessmen who are submissive and they go get their asses. Heaven heaven heaven. Yeah. Like, just check all my alpha bullshit at the door on March me around for me up and down the flagpole die for it. So when you when you actually you got a call and said, you're in this movie when I found out I was really really really excited. And then I went for a costume fitting. I went for another costume fitting. I kept thinking like something was going to happen at every phase right where they were. The clerical mistake would be noticed. Andrea percent. You're gonna get fired after the first. After my first shot. I was like that probably isn't what they wanted. So today this morning before I came here when I wrapped and they said that's a wrap on Lena Dunham, like even though everyone was so nice. There was a part of me that was like it are they like okay now if figure out how to how to Pat her out. Amazing. You you still feel like you're going to get fired on the first day or cut like that net. Never goes away ever goes. Brad Pitt's insecure. And some of those this movie, I promise I mean, he has an he's so good at acting. Cool Brad Pitt's so good at doing cool stuff. Did you see him with his shirt off at all? Did you know, but I had this thing which is like sometimes when there's someone who's very like traditionally attractive, technically attractive, although I think red has radical him has something more transcends, his he transcends his good looks and redefines them, but it's almost like I have a more paternal feeling towards him wanting to care for him and wanting to to put him back inside my mum, but might sexual this is Monica 's thing too. I haven't I have at the army ring sexual sexuality proclivity fantasy so cool. Yeah. And I think you know, what my diagnosed in Monica as is you've figured out a way to make yourself essential to the person. And like everyone else is offering this. But I've got this Mitch thing I can do that's gonna make me special in their eyes. And they're gonna know that they can't get this with anybody else. My thing is like I'll be his only date that can his motorcycle breaks. He can rise safely on the back of mind. One hundred percent. How this very few people he could trust. Now. He wouldn't be on the back of a motorcycle with. He's got children. He knows that ride your motorcycle a lot. Yup. Yup. Nonstop. So you'll ride gets your way of getting places. I say it's my superpower couple days ago. We were all on a plane together leaving Toronto we get off the plane. He has his motorcycle or like by I step into Uber line. And I got a text from him home. Spiegel's Scott Elliott man yet. It's a superpower feel like teleport places because of the motorcycle does Belva ride on the back. She's not scared. She has the weirdest thing. She could give a shit. I took her. There's this racetrack in Germany, call the Nurburgring, and it's the longest race track in the world. It's a seventeen mile lap. I rent this Porsche from APIs rental car. You're not supposed to take it on the track. Do anyways the backstretch were going hundred ninety five miles an hour. I look over at her. She's like thumbing through a magazine ish does even look up to see that. We're doing. Thing. It's like it's not like she's game. She just doesn't care. Oh, yeah. Okay. So yeah, it's a pretty gangster of her. She's really gangs. You guys have been ten or eleven years now so impressive. So you guys got together. You were you were like thirty two or something. Great fast, man. My age my age, I was thirty two. She was twenty seven. And here's the question. How would ruin you got sober twenty nine twenty nights? You had a couple of twenty nine C would like three years under your belt of good, solid work. Yes. And we're like a much different version of me than other people who are entering into the relationship from thoughtful place. Yes. And not just the sobriety. But also, recognizing my sex addiction, and my love addiction, and all these kind of things that are all external things to regulate. My internal emotion hundred percent. I love you. I'm so flattered you came to see you. I really am when I reached out to you. I was like I can't believe she saying. Yeah, I love you. And I also shared a lot in this situation that I'd have. Shared in other places in it felt really some as you gotta go with your gut and it felt really right safe. Thoughtful understanding yet you urge people to be better. Oh, well, thank you. So I wish everyone could see his overall he is Katie. And now my favorite part of the show. The back check with my soul mate. Monica Padma n-. Gee was bland it by the facts read, the lag deuce new the runner, and that blonded by the facts Shionogi gonna fund the truth. She gonna make it through. Again. The the end is not there beginning is they're getting is definitely there. It's a rive. And sometimes you're going to settle for the beginning. Yeah. That's the thing that the the last teen minutes, you, no kidding. It's fine. It's day was coming right. What we jobs. Yes. I'm pretty dependable. Pretty dependable fifty five zones in whatever for on this on this show on the show. I'm pretty dependable not today. You know, we were wondering when I'd have one of those days where I could just barely do this on the day that we need to really barrel because to give you a little peek behind the curtain or leave in Krakow asks in the morning. The sand dune save a place place on planet earth in there. So much to do and I was out of town yesterday and this morning and now there's three vehicles at need fuel. There's a lot of stuff. I gotta make a lot of spaghetti. What do you gotta do? And I got a pack that much to pack. What am I what should I pack packing mckanie? No, okay. Pasties no mega J A ninety. No. Is it going to be cold? They're very warm. It is gonna be about ninety in the daytime sixty seven at night yet can be hot a Shia. So don't bring snowsuit moon boots. Although bring moon boots has virtually what clogs are gloves. We wear eggs out there in the dunes says a nice wide footprint in it helps keep you on top of the sand. I don't wear unfortunately, why not I wear so embarrassing. I can't even talk you're saying glasses at night. No. I heard that song other day. Did you get so excited? Oh, wonderful. I don't have a I have age Naric version. Unlike Ukel trusted brand from high school. Oh my goodness. They're very old yet because I don't wear and life trust him into what a high quality product is that the rubber has disintegrated. Not if you're right. That's the best way. But I don't wear them. Only were the last of the sand is warm high school shar. Yeah. Even then it was sad. It's sad. It was a rip off of the thing. That was my whole life. I hear you. That's why I have things that are not rip off versions. Now's right. Because you really want him as a kid. You didn't get him. He actually goes back fact jagged again, she's run in round in round you go back. Check do it again that steely, Dan, you know, I love barely nine. Okay. So you talk about rusty's speech, that's Paul rust. That's right. Paul Russ star of love star of love, which we love. Yeah. We watched the first season, Paul Rosser, so cute. Oh, he so cute like him so much unique. He is. And he comes from the UC beep. And he wrote a very nice speech that made you feel all teary really did man. He was talking about Leslie made them feel cool. That's. It's really nice amoral part of their speech publicly. Being super complementary because you're also not like verbatim. You're just saying why the full speech went you made me feel so cool. Because normally I don't feel cool because I don't have any testicles. Oh, tail do you think I'm saying anything he would object to? He doesn't care people know his Tanel people pretty much already know that about him. Okay. Good K another person that we don't give last. We don't give Flonase Jemima Jemima Kirk gray from girls. That's right. She's from girl. She's from girl. She's from tiny furniture. She's from narcotic family share. I wanna get down to the beginning of all people knew it was Jemima Kirk. But just in K, if you wanna look her up, she so pretty big round is I generally like there was a conversation about how to love somebody like giving them what they need versus what you you are expecting, you know, Matt of love or what you need out of love might not coincide with what they need. We talked about that. And then that made me think of the love languages, and then I wonder did we already talk about love languages before. And who's a matter? I know that can recycle here. We can I've needed to hear many concepts multiple times before I got them that this is one that so abstract that requires repeating we can't set an expectation for selves that were never gonna everything as can be new on her will die will die then ourselves. No, don't I might love languages languages five of them. Do you know what they are gift-giving sane love you or affirmations formation linking people food acts of service of translated all of these in disarming L. That's so funny. Okay. Have done three of the five. I don't think I have the other two. I don't even know that I had the first three. But well, I think you kind of are one of the ones you haven't said one of maybe dying. Lover physical touch. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And is that is one and quality time is the fifth. So what do you think you are? What do you think you give sometimes at the same? I mean, again, probably wrong. I think physical touch and quality time or things that I value very highly try to you know, I think you'll when you come into the house. I don't just go like high and my walk past you. I stop what I'm doing. And look at you. And I say how are you doing what's going on? Yeah. If we're going to interact. I wanted to be present and quality. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's one always groping you too. As you would tossed off the same time. It's like how are you all through until VO? Tune in Tokyo. No. I don't know what any tune in Tokyo ally. No. Because you just did a hand gesture, but I've never heard them. John Hughes movie sixteen candles. I think there's something about they wanna play. Tune in Tokyo, it's like high school kids, and they wanna like and people. Yeah, I'm putting both hands in front of me with my fingers, splayed twisty my hands like twisting knobs on a radio to tune in Tokyo's like operating a ham radio. That's what the young boys wanted to do to set it breasts onto tune in Tokyo. Yeah. Wow. Never tuned in her tone. You know, we'll be clear reach Tokyo. Oh, I wasn't finished talking about that love languages languages. We got really distracted by physical touch one ears gift-giving. Yeah. Forgiving though, not really receiving don't like for you in order to feel loved you. Don't need to be receiving thoughtful gifts now, but mom gives you thoughtful gifts all the time when she does. How does that few? Kristen. Oh, my mom, your mom. Mom, your mom. Your mom. Not your mom when my mom gives me, the generally crazy thought gifts, I love it yet. You feel super loved I two I do feel like someone's hearing me try. Yeah. Paying attention to our you know, it's weird. Like, I think maybe it's because I'm good at that that when somebody else's good at it too through it. No, I says nothing deceit there. It's all wonderful. And it is so thoughtful a nice, but I'm not like, I don't I don't think I feel it in the same way. So I agree with you in that. I'm not a crazy thoughtful gift giver? So then when I receive a gift that was crazy thoughtful, you've given me some Christmas giving me some it's extra powerful because it's it's outta my skills stack this person really did something I can't even do for me. Eggs actly. Yeah. Yeah. I also not unlike when I tune in your Tokyo. I can't tune in Tokyo hope y'all on here. Yeah. I give gifts for sure. And I think I need. All of them all of them. Okay. But now, I think I need really hard. I really do kind of feel like I like all I need all of them. I mean, everyone needs all of them. That's why they're there. But it's like, what do you respond to the most you know, what I don't really need acts of service. Well, that's a bummer 'cause that's merrily homes in you that love you is. I'm not going. Well, no, yes. Well, it's one in with the truck to pick out a bed. I know I love that. I want that. And then I go to the best buy and pick out a TV was actually, Costco. But a Costco, pick out some TV's with you put him up in your house. Actually, I'm wrong. I do love that. I do need it. I I do all the loves. Yeah. Anyway, I just think I think it's interesting because I think other people are better at diagnosing, sometimes better at diagnosing your stuff than you. Oh, I think most of the time they are. But also, I think the I think the most important thing about the love language thought process isn't to say like what you do or don't love or whatever. But it's more importantly to go like, oh, this is something I value ton. So then when the person doesn't do it back to me, I'm assuming they have the same right wine would so I'm assuming they don't love me in you, probably missing some other way, they're demonstrating their love for you. But it's not the one that you give. So you kinda miss it. Yeah. I mean, that's that's like half. Right. And then the other half is. So what is the thing that they respond to an I can try to be better about giving that. Yup. Yup. Absolutely. Okay. I don't want Chris to stop giving gifts. Okay. 'cause I. I really like those won't you like that. We talk a lot about mental health on this episode of Wadi lot too much now. Okay. Good amount. You allots? Was it was it was a lot. It was. But in a great is great. It's good to talk about it. And that's what we talk about. Always. But I remembered when I was listening back I remembered one time, I was listening to this panel of the mad men cast one of the actors on there is French. I wanna say he's European and he don't know how they on the subject, but they started talking about happiness, and he was like Americans are so obsessed with happiness as a destination my paraphrasing better happiness as a destination and the French. I think it was the French don't see it like that. They see happiness as like n another emotion, that's transient that you come in and out of and it's in so you there's a lot less depression because depression comes from not achieving this permanent level of happiness on Maddox PEC patients xactly, but really that's not no one can do that. It's not. Permanent. Stay leading feeling. Exactly. You're right. I find myself striving for all happiness. Yeah. Yeah. I the best you can strive for his content nece Neapolis sustainable, the Neo little peaks of happiness little valleys of sadness. Fujii's over there in Tokyo. Tune in see what they're saying. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And it all informs the other sadness informs happiness number one time. I told you I'm not afraid to be sad. I told you that. I don't know if it's still true. But she's in this new movie Manson's, so interesting. Oh, the Quentin Tarantino film once upon a time in Hollywood. That's what it's called for Natalie would now who knows his tend to stick as true. He has titles. Literally the best titles of any writer ever get ones. I wanna see I'm so obsessed with the Manson murders. Really? Yeah. Which is kind of a cliche like everyone's obsessive. They're like the most really I'm so into Disneyland. I'm so into talk let so strange. It's so rare the worst thing about me. But when I get a huge paycheck. I'm like love it feels good. I don't know why. But I love a huge when I say this. But okay. Yeah. But anyway, so it's interesting to me is interesting to you, the Manson's incredibly. Yeah. What fascinates me about is the is the primate aspect like the power of the group the power of a leader of the power of status. The power of all these things that kind of bring often on here and see it at its zenith where it's like, you actually convince people to go murder other people because of your mindset point of view and the tools used to become that cult of personality. It's so interesting that we as an animal are susceptible to that. And even people that would imagine they're not would probably be shocked, you know, like Stockholm syndrome. That's fascinating to me that you start sympathizing with your captors and all these different things that are. I think are all weird vessel group animal. Yeah behaviors. Yeah. I know I always always surprised when people are so indignant to end a judgmental about people who get like, quote, unquote, sucked into these colts. Because I'm like, I think everyone is capable of being sucked in yet. Yeah. I think I really am. Woah, Jim, certainly, there's probably a spectrum of how susceptible people are. Yeah. But, but then you have to you have to imagine circumstance. So you have to go like okay now, imagine me on my worst day feeling. The worst about myself in the most directionless I've ever seen. Then I meet one of the most charismatic people of all time happens to coincide with that. And then the sky's the limit. Well, that's I think it's just it's it's whatever, they're whatever. Vulnerability that particular cult is preying on. You know, you get you are more or less susceptible, but they happen all over the place. Absolutely their on air in plain sight. Raj nations were on some level. Very I mean, they were in a coal. Pretty cool call, but regardless it was a Colt. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think you've ever been under the power of somebody? Yeah. You do you don't say that. I hate when I know you don't like save at. So you should you hate it. I thought you didn't use that word. Yeah. One time dachshund I use the word hate all the time. And I haven't said since. Which goes to show that I'm in your call. No, I don't I don't like it. How about that? I don't like. No. Which is so funny that you get like really weirded out by that. Do do is it because you have this podcast. And you get nervous that you really are doing that. No. If it would make your liking me disingenuous. It would mean the thing that we share is mind control and cults first and not just like a genuine friendship. I don't think that's true. I don't think I'm in your call that see some days, I do someday. I don't think I'm in your call disagree with the cult leader quite a bit. I wouldn't call very very outspoken if you really measured like there's an outsider or computer program that was monitoring our conversations the vast majority of Marv disagreements I never that. I keep coming back. I keep going Zoot who's coming back. That's true. Okay. So there's four says five tricks to being better at names. Remembering name Forbes does. Yeah. Great. I four citing. I probably be that we talked about earlier. Yeah. Okay. One meat, and repeat that's an obvious one. Sure mean repeat to spell it out. Oh, does it. I o n o c o a. Sell it out three associate so Joan from jersey. Ooh, little alliteration. I think Anthony does this all the time Monica from make. But you're not from George doesn't have to be factual. But it's better if it is and you can remember two things something about them and their name, right? Yeah. In anthony. Does this all the time? All the time. He always has like a qualifier before the name know, what mine is canasta. I'm okay. I'll report back. I don't think he probably has one for you. Because he probably didn't have a hard time learning your name because it's so unique. Yeah. Okay. For because I'm a co leader. Oh, you said it not me. Okay. Number four make connections. So another way association can be helpless to make a connection between the person you're talking to end someone else. You know, what the same name? I try this all the time. Yes. Because there's a lot of dudes that float in and out of my meaning. Yeah. Then they'll be sitting there on the couch and I'm staring at their face on a Mike. What friend did I connect them to? They don't look like anyone. I know. It's always the weird that is hard. Yeah. More frustrated train. Remember the person? I connected them to then. I would just be. Yeah. Backfire sometime K, but in my work for other people. Okay. And five is really. I mean, this is what all boils down to choose to care. I don't buy that one. I do you can make yourself care. Well, I mean can you make yourself care? Well, what happens for me? I find the reason I'm not good at it. Because I'm good at remembering I'm not good at hearing it the first time because I. I'm too in my head during the introduction that I don't hear their name. And then I won't ask again. Right. I feel too ashamed ashamed. Yep. To save. What was your name again? Oh, I can't do it. So then I just never know. I'm surprised the thing I brought up was in there because I just in my own experience. I would have said I was incapable of learning a hundred people's names a month. But when I was directing and I needed something from every person. Boy, I've never had easier time. Yeah. What blows me away his teachers? They don't need shit from those kids, and I'll walk in these classrooms day to in these teachers know all the kids names, I'm blown away. 'cause if no status thing there, you can't do anything for them other than I guess they got to get them to behave. Hey, fuck, whatever with red hair. All whatever. Your name is great great t shirt stubby glue may because you do need to you need you need to Carl on them. So you do also there's a repetition and you get used rather. Also all sitting in the exact same spot every day. So the visual you hope that's true. They can they can pull. Yeah. That's it that we also talked put the Nuremberg ring been there really put who cares hairs. That's all. Yeah. That's all. Okay. Great while I love you. And I can't wait to hit the road with you tomorrow knee. Either will get to listen to some podcasts. That's my favorite part about driving to the dunes. Is we get to see what else is going on fun? Yeah. All right. Love you.