Spy Kids with Katherine Leon

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Chances are you have body hair. Some of you keep your hair and that's awesome but if you're like me you prefer to shave which is why i want to tell you about billy billy billy delivers premium razors direct to you for half the price of what you'd find in the store go to my billy dot com slash t._b. See for ten percent off your razor. Plus shipping is always free. This is a limited time special offer. Go now to save ten percent off your razor at my billy dot com. Tom slash t b c. That's m. y. B. i. l. l. e. dot com slash t b c on the back dr cast the questions <music> asked movies have women are all their discussions boyfriends and husbands do they have individualism the patriarchy's f._m. Fast start changing with the dell don don denton welcome to the backdoor gap. Should you choose to accept this. Mission for kids is jamie and my name was caitlyn durant and this is our feminist about movies about spies about kids. We're pivoting. We're getting simply. Just those thing it's caitlyn. The podcast bubble has burst. You have to be more niche than ever do broad we can only talk about despise and the media there in derived at them that means we can talk about agent codey banks to end one. No i meant like te'o as well. Is there any other kids who is usc girl kids who is spies. We'll harry by harriet. The oh my god there's actually quite a lot of media in this sub sub sub genre. We should have done despise september. There is so many spy movies for kids. I like that nancy. Drew is absolutely yeah yeah yeah she. Oh i live i love nancy drew so as in barbara nancy drew now. There's a new nancy drew and now it's barb from stranger things. Am i making this up. Oh i didn't think it was bar but there was a movie that came out that was in theaters for. I think two days and starring emma roberts or was that a different a different one adds adds to that was my that was my era. Nancy drew has yet two thousand seven. There's one that came out in two thousand nineteen. There was only got like brushed under the rug. Aw i know unbelievable anyway so we talk about the representation of yes and <hes> we use something called the spy test to determine whether or not the kids in the movie or watching our spies respect delta's it's. This is our wildest episode yet. We'll play. This isn't your first episode. We we're talking about portrayal in movies especially when there's but spies in children and then we use the back door test <hes> as a jumping off point and not of course it's a media metric <unk> created by cartoonist alison bechtel also it's known as the bechtel wallace test and it requires that two female identifying characters in order to spies in a movie any talk talk to talk to each other about something other than a man or correspond man right a man who is spying alison bechtel. Is she spy not that we know of or maybe she's just that i hadn't considered what we found out. Alison bechtel was both a great cartoonists and icon and in the c._i._a. That would mean. Did you want to cover. She's she's got to want my parents to be spies. Show bad because of this movie yeah. Oh my god. I got so into spy culture after this. I'm so we're let's get into coverings biking we are we have a guest as we always do. She is a dear friend of ours. She is a photographer. She's a producer of you've met. Any comedy shows around los angeles. She's helped out at various of our live shows including the show we did at san francisco sketch fest and the new york comedy. The festival people often confused her for our super producer sophie but when it is actually catherine leon. I loved getting getting mistaken for so it wasn't honor. Oh it was an unwelcome. This episode has truly been. I think years in the making i think before you establish yes you were having a podcast. Even the only thing i knew about you is that you love spot the only thing i needed you. Conspire really throwing me off. You know a a real spy probably wouldn't love a spy movie so much judge because it may give away all. It'd be a dead giveaway but their kids. I'm not a kid. We're not kids but are you a spy. Maybe ah that's that was my way of telling you. There's been a spy. There should be by adults spinner. I agree there's sort of a spin off called machete starring trae. Ho don't think we have salad is not a real spinoff but it is it. There's a whole machetes series directed by the same director spike is robert rodriguez movie franchise starring danny trae ho playing a character. I think named michetti who is also his character's name in spiking caitlyn. That's all we all want it to spin off of spiking. We we camp fisher. Actually if anyone in i wouldn't be surprised if robert rodriguez it's like snuck in a little reference in machete just people's head cannon. Does he agree. That is his code name so in that series is that his real l. name or is that a codename no one's ever seal in shetty's. We're still guessing. Maybe it's a direct spin off. It's clearly establish salvaged the beginning and we just don't know truly don't because we did not watch it right but this is i mean this was my intro. Tha danny trae hope for this is my answer to the lot ought to watch when we were watching it back as a group last night. I didn't realize how many like i recognize tony shalhoub but i didn't like when i was a kid. I was like oh that's alexander. Many and i didn't know who alan cumming blake was. This everyone's first alan cumming movie is definitely mine. <hes> no. I saw this movie for the first time when i was thirty true my first alan cumming was josie and the pussycats. I think that's i mean. There's no bad way to be introduced. Absolutely not the the greatest of all time and i think this was the first time i unless eight already seen yeah. I'm pretty sure this would have been the first time i had seen antonio banderas. Although maybe it seems i'm i'm not shy probably saw zoro like i'm sure i've seen sorrow either the i. I don't know if the second one had come out yet but i definitely saw the first one. I don't remember the order but there's so so many famous teri hatcher is in this yes. I probably didn't even know who teach in her yeah. Mike judge is in like yeah. Definitely the only didn't judge was all i cared about was carmen and like i just wanted to be carmen. Ginny many think really an iconic siblings vivey that was my whole thing with caitlin was trying to prove to her that spy kids was a perfect movie was that i was like this is the most accurate representation of me and my brother in any movie did anywhere was your age gap similar brother i think so it was four years which seemed mine too similar. Yeah yeah my brother in this. I remember seeing this movie and maybe this is bad but like the the kids in this movie it is. It's like very realistic how much they beat the shit out of each other like you don't usually see that in movies you see maybe a light verbal argument that carmen judy junor sooner throws a dumbbell at his sister. After she kicks off of a jungle like she kicks him off a jungle gym. He falls to the ground. She's mike i'm like hard like stone right like swings off and then when she turns around he picks up a way and tries to throw it at her and hits a plant or something something which i remember seeing this movie and being like oh. My god kids aren't supposed to hit each other. Thank god i've been doing this to my but it was like this would probably have in two thousand one would have been around the time because my brother and i have like the same age cab where my brother got mad at me and this is when i was like losing teeth left right and he planned to sting operation well. I was just by you know he's just a devious young man where he he must have been like four or five knee like crawled up onto my bed and he slammed his but onto my head and i lost to the forget what he's still my pokemon card. Oh gosh slammed my head and then i got ten dollars from the tooth fairy. Oh wow who one brother he was so mad at my parents thought it was really like we got in trouble but there was like so you you sat jamie's head. He's a really hard. I would have been in like second second or third grade or something when this movie came out so you guys were the target demo the right so officially catherine. What is your history with this relationship etc. I can't remember seeing in theaters years. I know that like. I don't recall seeing in theaters but i definitely have the v._h._s. It is currently on my dining room table. They tried to give it to you. You'll showing it hi to give it to you but i just watched it a lot as a kid and like a big thing for me. I think was being able to see like hispanic representation. I and i was like oh. These kids are like they kind of look like judas. It look like my brother but i was like carmen kind of looks like me as like a child and i kind of saw a lot of my family and like their family and that was like who will now is probably one of my. I like earliest movies. Is i have an uncle that is daddy trail anti-american camerin antonio and alan cumming antonis yeah my mom's teri hatcher. It's a whole thing <hes> spike spike is is based off of my me and my way of telling you there's a lot of secrets you revealing to me. It is is if you are <hes> no. I think they're just watched it a lot. When i was a kid like it was just i found it enjoyable. I thought it was super funny and i think jamie saying like i was like oh i think i want to be a spy by like i got into remember. Scholastic book fair stuff had like spy books and said i care that your order and i can't remember anything i bought but but there was nothing really to other than the fact that we just liked it as a family and i think because my parents knew who like antonio benders was they were like oh yeah. We like this movie to 'cause. We know these actors which is a big thing because my parents don't really know. They don't really watch movies and they only really know like big name. People and i think internet was clearly clearly a person that they were like we know him. This movie's allowed jimmy. What about your relationship to this uh-huh. I love this movie. I remember seeing it in <hes> theaters with my cousins very occasionally. Usually there's a few movies. I remember seeing with all of my cousins very clearly <hes>. This was one of them were just children heard <hes> of sounds like my family. Yeah doesn't hurt sweaty kids and like to adult not enough adult to adult but i remember my omni bunny une- brought us because she had a huge crush on antonio banderas and she was like she was like i just like a weird thing where she was being in the van and i'm being like there's something for everyone and you're like hey oh. This is a movie where we had like. We're still like poor so it was like for ten of us we had like a tube of starburst and we would pass them down to each other but i thought for some reason this is like an a. an embarrassing commenting. I know the story yet. We're like they were passing them down the row and for some reason i thought my cousins were unwrapping them for me. Says eating them with the paper on. Why is it tastes weird and they were just like us. Look and i got june but i loved this. I like it also got me really really interested in spying and i i never i didn't see harry at this when i was a kid i think i'd say that was my that was my take a spy because i've seen harriet the spy i don't. I don't know but yeah i end. This was definitely the first movie about buy ins that i'd seen yeah and like i had like a picture of alexa vega in my room like i i loved it and i and i remember. I think that we saw two in three in theaters to definitely three because you got three d. Glasses is yes. No maybe i did. The three d glasses definitely sounds familiar but i couldn't tell you what the plot of three i three. I i remember three better. The two because three takes place inside of a virtual yeah is semester salone one. I think so that actually so so excited to go home. It's so it's a really good and all three of them around net flicks to four with joel mchale alba weird the original people are in it but i think the second one is about don again. Who's the guy that gets kidnapped in the first. I wanted by mike judge judge. I think because judges in the second one yeah because he he's the main like bad guy thing 'cause his kids start becoming because like they're like okay. Spy kids are okay now now. It's like a weird family competition between down against family and the cortez family because i think they're just remember one scene in particular ridiculous at like a banquet and all of the parents get poisoned. Kids have to save whoever's the best spike it. It becomes like thus by kit or something like that. Take subtle. You've been nodding along. Are you also a huge fan of this. I was like going into it being like hill. At least my are we all. These are the three of us the same eight. We're all okay so yeah. Just truly like one of those like prime down to ninety two to ninety two babies. I'm an eighty six baby and that's why i've never seen it is so weird like when we covered this like specific like run of ten years that like being born even a couple years apart like will decide whether you've seen it or not like someone born in maybe like i dunno my younger brother ah he probably doesn't remember seeing this young for the first time or anyways spies kids i. Why should i jump into the recap appa. Yes okay so <hes> there are two kids are not spies yet. Don't worry junie and carmen. Carmen wants her mom to tell her bedtime story about two spies who fell in love. She tells the story <hes> the lady spies mission was to kill the man in spy and his mission was to kill her but instead of killing each other they fall in love and they get married and it turns out that that those two spies are carmen in june spy spy daddy but they've retired from being spies consultants and and they've started a family. Their names are gregorio cortez. That's antonio banderas and ingrid. The mum played by. What is her name kurla eugenia so meanwhile junie the little boy he loves this t._v. Show called loops loops that like we haven't been saying that over and over again yes twenty four hour <hes> flukes fig liaise such a tongue twister okay even now watching now flips fouque's scarier than when i first saw it. There's like body horror in this show. Oh i have now. I'm the graphics are wild now. I'm wondering maybe this was the first movie word scene like body horror in. Maybe because it's it's now one of my favorite things like maybe maybe not giving spy kids. I forgot how much of it like. It was an impressionable film yeah tony shalhoub at the rupel added and his hands for some reason the phone people home ball thumb. How's cather. Arthur new pointed out that on netflix god thumbnail for this movie trust is of something so it's a thumbnail someone that net flex has aids. He's okay so junie watches. This show flips. We see a scene where we meet. Mr flu played by alan cumming king in his layer and then the bad terminator from terminator two is also there and he's giving a lot of exposition. His name is mr lisp rounder said and then i mean we tony shalhoub is also there as flukes sloops minion named alexander minion but we that's a reveal find out 'til later on to take glasses sir alan cumming subscribing to like she's all that logic where like tony shalhoub takes off his glasses and alan cummings like oh oh my god. I know i've seen you before. I don't like the implication that in in order to become powerful tony shalhoub has to take his glasses off as a frequent glasses wearer. That's fair was not fair. You're not wearing them now half only because they mess with the headphones. It's a whole thing but i will say it was. I don't even think this was done intentionally but like it was fun to see that trope inverted. I never a man takes off his glasses and everyone's like your bus now. In alexander union oh such a goofy because alan cumming and antonio banderas have to say that name dead syria yeah. It's a very serious situation is the bad guy like the deep seated villain in this movie and in both of them do have to say it and such. It's like a way where you're like. Oh i'm scared. I have to be scared of this. Antonio vendors read was like pre alexander and then tony. She lives like yes. It's me great okay so before all that happens <hes> we learned that fluke is both i guess the host and executive producer of his own children show and an renters sure peewee you mean yes yeah so fluke is also so in inventor who we learn has been trying to make an army of super secret agents but they turned out all weird in mutated and now the only u._c. has for them to put them as characters on his shows which sounds like it's almost saying something else that is like doc <hes> that should that works and being a children's movie. Oh i think they know you mean boggling yeah junior high and salt that convert my feelings one yeah a lot of weird choices in this movie overall so fluke also has this army of thumb thumb mm robots which are like sort of useless and then he also has these highly trained killer robots that are designed to look doc exactly like specific children which fluke calls spy kids. That's the says it stare at called spike performances. Movie is the best part of this movie. It's so good in that scene. I think between the two of them they say spy kids four or five so tell me more about these kids like robert rodriguez you the only problem with spike id robots though is that they can't talk and they don't have brains. Meanwhile spy daddy gets called on a mission because several agents have disappeared in oas like the secret spy agency that they used to work for this by parents so so spy mom decides to go with spy dad so she seduce him she she's do. I yeah we'll talk about that so they call uncle uncle felix played by cheech marin to babysit the kids but a bunch of bad guys show up and then felix's like by the way your parents are spies. I'm not your real ongole and you need to deliver a message to the o. S. tell them that the third brain lives felix fights off the bag is and then the the not yet spy kids escape in a spy vehicle to a safehouse meanwhile the spy parents get captured by flu p- and and we learn that fluke is after something that he thinks the o._s. has destroyed and he wants spider daddy to rebuild it for him <hes> and then <music> in the not yet spy kids have equipped themselves with some spy gear so they're getting a little closer to becoming spy kids training themselves alves. They're training them. They're being proactive in training themselves to be spies. Yes scrape and then teri hatcher shows up never a good sign the the by forgot about the teri hatcher body body horror scene and that like because i haven't seen this movie and maybe like five years at release yeah and it was like oh my god like they. They really do her dirty. In this anyways yeah it's wild <hes> she shows up pretending to be oh says but it turns turns out that she and all the people she's with or also bad guys and they trick the kids into giving them the third brain which is the thing that spy dead had created flip is after so the kids chase after the bad guys and they get the third brain back another even closer to becoming actual officials spy kids but meanwhile back at the fluke house fu flip. You flip also lives in a really cool boot. It's a boot shave with the castle. The movie so is silly so sloops minion named alexander million ah like hey. I made your spy kid. Robots look like carmen and junie and then those evil d'appel angers go after the real carmen jimmy and steal the third brain back <hes> and then the kids go to this guy michetti as we discussed his danny trails character for help and they learned that he is their actual uncle but he's like. I don't wanna help you 'cause. I hate my brother so they steal his spy plane and fly it. Spy plane phuc house. Danny trio is also like fine with it yeah and then he's like ha ha ha you. You guys are wild. I love seeing danny trae whose smile it's always so disarming sweet man so oh there at the house now where tony shalhoub has promoted himself to the evil mastermind behind this whole plan and he's making copies of the third brain and putting it into the army of spike robots and then alexander minion turns spy daddy into a fu gli and then carmen junie rescue their parents with the help of flu who is now a good guy because he cares more about his t._v. Be show than about building an army which what a wild precedent. I can't quite wrap my head around that one but i love the conversation that and catherine thing though like the one shot they shot where fluke is like in the clouds and he's huge for some reason there is so little and then it cuts back and at one point he's like sitting cross legged just like totally thinks that this is real that is so funny because i like standing because he's supposed to be scary and then he gets closer to junior and then he's like just lounging in the clouds. They're talking about their feeler having little therapies they we really are in june one that makes him realize that he's could inside need an army of robots. It's so that's i mean re re watching get as just like oh wow i like. Junie harnessed the power of like sense boy to to save the day like his his super. Spy power was expressing his feeling yeah. It's true it's true yeah so in other flip is a good guy with his help. They all turn minion minion into a fu gli <hes> but he's like i like it i five heads and he's having a great time <hes> <hes> and then the spy family they're about to fight the evil robot d'appel gang spiking children but then flip has reprogrammed them all all to be philanthropic or something. He's switches their brain to think that what's right is wrong and what's wrong right. All it takes apparently so then they go after like many in and teri hatcher in the terminator from terminator two and then they're like family now and then they live happily ever after there is a great alexa vega who went to high school with god. Damn everyone it's there but alexa vega. It gives that powerful speech to cameras too close to the movie. She's like there's listen. There's spies and there's kids. Sometimes spies should be a part of spy family. Family is the most important biking of all turns the t._v. Right the so that's the story. 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Seek during checkout and we're back time to get into a deep cannon. This is requires analysis. Yes yes it does <music> for me having never seen this movie having not grown up with it seeing it through the adult is that i saw it through you know an objective observer observer will say to me. It seemed like the female characters and the characters are presented as being generally equally competent tint and smart and good at their jobs and i think it's mostly because carmen is older but she is presented as being far more competent than in her little brother jimmy yes so we see this a lot. This is like a thing and we talked about a little bit in drastic park. This is something we've seen. A lot of movies is where it's like. An older sister younger brother and the older sister is presented as being more competent which i guess makes sense for their age but it's also good for us because we too often see women who are not competent yes. I i mean i love. I still stand and carmen to this day. There's an end the like something that i mean it is like a more realistic sibling portrayal than you see in most kids movies as a specially in a movie this otherwise fucking crazy <hes> like i really liked the sibling relationship and also that you see carmen like be moody moody and like kind of mean sometimes but it's not like the movie is never like and you should be like it's she's being a kid yeah <hes> she's she's being really smart kid and really like capable kid really spy could really spying and she's spying the whole and and like even when she's into into her broiler like she cares about him and she protects him and he helps her and i just i don't know i i really like they. They didn't do anything saying. I didn't think to make her the girl spy like she was just one of the spies which i love big sister energy love it yeah that that was great. I also enjoyed that. You get to see a little boy. Expressing fear being afraid kind of being sort of the more sensitive one yeah and then the little girl being brave and like kind of taking initiative 'cause you usually don't see either of those things or the roles will be reversed where it's like. The boy gets to be brave. The girls scared <hes> so it's nice that you see that little flip in juny child wards. I was a little little cousin the whole time it was like child words visibility and his own neon band a little cousin <hes> <hes> and then i liked that they both had for junie. It's his his war and then for carmen it becomes a critical plot point that she whereas a diaper at night has bed wedding issues which is just like something you never see in a movie from a kid who's also really cool and you're supposed to likewise so i was like you know like power to the child bed wetter. There's such but there i mean it's it's like there is such a stigma especially especially when you're a kid of like the kids to bed and like the hero of our movies still leads the bed and yeah her brother makes fun of her for it but then they also atlanta submarine into like moments later so i'm like well. I guess the bed weddings kind of a wash yeah. That was a cool and that was also. I thought that that was going to be a one off joke. Because it said between the parents one of the many times they're trapped and and i like i don't know if this was assumed it was junie because he has younger and had right warts or something i don't know but but then you find out later that it's carmen it's actually an important plot point because it makes them crash the submarine because she's like she's mad at knowing like those little details that like would i. I remember that from being a kid. 'cause you're like oh bed. Weather's not being made fun of like <music> sick. I make i'm making it sound now. I'm like an adult i. I didn't actually wet the bed okay. Jamie sounds like you did actually wasn't wetting the abed in two thousand and one i did for into when you skipped over that year but maybe back in p. P. every night wet the bed as a teenager no guys i've he'd in my pants hance like at the door as an adult life totally like one hundred percent. I got so used to not when i would drive an hour each way to go to work like i just would get in the habit of not paying before i drove so when i'm at the door i'm like i'm going to see if i don't open the store and i've done it countless times i can't even i don't even no no anymore. I remember my first break up in high school. I was being so dramatic that i just wet the bed one day. I'm like i'm not leaving my bed. I'm shoots. It's too depressed just test might it's almost like a bad idea. This is has been a nice sharing time. I think this is i've been healing ought to anyway so yeah i think this movie which is clearly directed towards like children and like families <hes> does a lot live good things in terms of representation that so many kids movies many of which we've discussed on the podcast do not do and in fact a a lot of them have done more harm than good but yeah this one as we said normalizes bed wedding and warts it shows girls and women being justice competent and smart as the boys and men it shows catherine you touched on this but so we're trying to figure out where this takes place and what exactly ethnicity this family might be yeah. 'cause it's not specified but we think it might be mexico that it takes place because i was saying that growing up. I just assumed it was california because i'm from here and i was like oh that could be like in san diego. We're like a coastal part like up north. It just never occurred to me to think of where they were but we were. We were trying to figure out like oh. You brought it it up really do do you think they're in a different country. I never thought about that and then re watching it. We found so many context clues and then it was like definitely in a different country like cow. How in the beginning spy mom spied ad say how they were from two different countries <hes> and now they're in one so we're gonna assume that maybe inspire mama's from the united states. She's got an american because she's i think either ambiguous or like she's supposed to be american and then like throughout the movie. All the texts that we see is in spanish right and like notices and various characters speaking spanish spanish which and like the school. There's like that seen in the school where you're like well. None of the kids are speaking spanish and like can't really tell it could be like an easily american school but there's a scene where he almost hits. He liked breaks. The car really hard the lady holding the stop signs yells spanish <hes> but like i think it was mostly the text on like the wart remover bottle the texas in spanish one of the billboards it was all in spanish is stores were like going to the clothing store and it says like ninos and babies like all the texas in in spanish and then when they're at the park as well <hes>. There's everyone in the background speaking in spanish so it's a spanish speaking country we can assume we there's necessarily clear identifiers specifically what country it is. There was also that clue when the wedding scene you're saying how on the cake they have like like the diaz more at those like right skeletons and i'm i might be wrong but i'm pretty sure that's clearly mexican of mexican culture yeah so for that specific imagery country right and robert rodriguez is mexican so like i kind of assumed that in the movies take place in mexico. I was trying to figure out where this movie was. Shot shot and i don't have much santa. Don't they say the seal yet and that's the place in mexico right. He looked up but like the i'm still not and then the sleep trying to be vague and it's like this is a hispanic culture that we're like trying to show and were intentionally trying to because there is this from spain from his but then like danny trae ho and cheech marin who all hispanic the two of them are mexican so at at least at the very least it's an ethnically ambiguous family a mixed family <hes> we're not sure exactly where antonio benders is supposed to be from from what ethnic group he belongs to but it some like lat next or hispanic you can safely say that it's like hispanic yeah and the huge movie like taking place outside side of america in a non english speaking country is like a big deal. Yeah sure catherine. You're saying that like to be able to see yourself off. Representative feel as though you're represented. That's like a huge thing because so many measures like white kids white kids white kids and like as a kid. You don't realize that that's what's happening until you grow up and so to be able to be like spy kids. I saw myself in spike. It's like all those disney movies. It's like i could could only be pocahontas because she had brown hair. I can only be milan because she had black hair zones like but you don't think about that context as a child here disliked well. She kind of looks like me. I guess that's that's the princess that i have to pretend to be your whatever right which is cool yeah. Another point for spike is love it. I guess this kind of ties into carmen but <hes> we were talking about this last night as well <hes> the way i really liked how the fighting works works in this movie because this is like there's there's a lot of action elements to this movie. Someday got more violent than i remembered. Terry hunters head basically burned off but then later that her wig is just kind of dad. She's well. She sounds like this woman in charge because she's like mostly ball bush and then she's got some long straggly hair and she does seem to have more power once she is balder. It's true <hes> but the but one of the cool things is like i think we see very often in in action movies especially action movies of this era that women are only allowed to fight. Women and men are only allowed to fight men and that is not a rule that applies to this world world. We see ingrid fighting hand to hand with guys. I don't remember do we see antonio banderas fighting women at any point just i. I don't think so but just because there aren't any other like women spy. I think the only other adult is teri hatcher woman yeah that's true i think right because because all of the agent who turned into those were all got ya and so i think it truly is just ingrid and teri catchers character and then but then carmen also <hes> fights her brother at multiple robots robo brother and there. I don't know like it's it is kind kind of rare to see. There seems to be parody in in fighting in this movie to it doesn't seem like like you're saying catherine like the i think the only reason antonio banderas <hes> doesn't end up fighting a female spy because there's not enough female spies in the movie but i mean it. It is cool that it's it's not like i feel like it's always like the guys who fighting and this is the big part and then we cut to also. There's some women fighting over here. It would have been very easy choice for for when the two evil gang show up for it would have been an easy narrative choice for the girl to fight the girl and the boy the boy. I think here's my ask us. I think that they probably didn't do that because it would have been much easier to shoot yet the girl and the boy fight each other and then the girl and the boy fight each other probably would have been too hard to coordinate like parent trap style exactly citing life kid fight choreography would have been nearly impossible but also catharsis right like you were saying. You've always wanted to fight your sibling. There's like a whole scene. Were there in the park when they first meet the robot d'appel gainers and she's like i've i have always wanted to do this and she punches in the faith which is not saying that like obviously. That's not great but there's like a sibling thing in you where so you're just like man. Sometimes we just want to get your as a as a sibling. This movie appeals to my worst has an older specifically as an older sister with younger brother. He's like the worst pairing o of all time and then the other thing that i think i think that <hes> in a lesser movie carmen. I think she's supposed to be like maybe nine or ten maybe yeah ah <unk>. What is our best guess for these ages i think he i think carman's like maybe ten. He's like seven. I feel like carmen in may be like closer to junior high almost even alec twelve or thirteen in june is probably in like second grade. Alexa takeaways like i guess older now. I guess like fourth grade fourth fifth grade so alexa vega was twelve when this movie came out and daryll harrelson bara aka. Mr meghan trainor was nine so yes yes so i think that an anyways in the lesser movie especially if she is is aged up to be eleven or twelve <hes> i feel like they would have tossed in some love interest for two. That's about the age where you're like. Oh i mean if we got got a female character. We gonna you know we've got to her to kiss <hes> but this movie also ops out of that and just gives you five hundred more scenes of tony shillue which i'm all fine with with better used of time sure there's a nice little moment in katherine pointed this out when we were watching it but as as they are taking taking the initiative in it's mostly i would say carmen who's taken the initiative to train themselves to be safe house right yeah. She picks up a spy manual by unknown and author very funny. She's reading from it and says a good spy puts himself and then she adds into the text herself yeah in the mindset of the opponent so she's reading this patriarchal text. That's excluding women altogether. She's like it's not just himself. It's herself too. She has to like self-correct through the whole thing. She's also i mean she. I liked that they both have moments where they figure out what's going on <hes> but i think carmen does get a few more of those moments because because she's more motivated less emotional than junie and just like generally more badass because she's twelve and he's nine eight. Oh i just thought of another so compare this movie to jumanji the first one where cureton dunn's is the older sister her and the she's got a younger brother and then all of the like emotional weight and all the like the kids figuring things out that's all given to the boy so but it's like <hes> carmen and figures out who danny trae ho is through like context clues and then like the one that is like your it's a tracking device and then carmen raged riches blink blink because i hate that she throws the tracking device in the eye does love and then. She saves him several times. She has a safe him when the drops johnson but then saves time again. That was a really scary shot shot yeah there. I don't know how to describe the cinematography in this movie but it is a love it so much data to ghirma navarro who it's the cinematographer in this movie. It's like their times that it's all live action but it looks like a cartoon sometimes like when she drops junie like to his death it looks like a cartoon but it's still really intense and scary and oh it's just so cool yeah that's where he's worked a lot with gear molin toro and like desperately cool stuff oh he did pans lambert <hes>. We got to take another quick break. We'll come right back. Don't you worry tonight at the museum <music>. Hey backdoor cast listeners. 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Com slash watch t._v. For fifteen percent off today and we're back when nicholas county. I am still thinking of a dog the body of work. Here's a couple of things that i didn't like as much or that. I found a little like oh okay i one whenever the mum is retelling the story of spy spy dead meeting and antonio banderas like they come face to face when they're like about to supposedly kill each other. He reaches in to her top and pulls out the photo of him to be like oh. I was your target but it's like okay. Why're you reaching into her clothes right near her boobs. Yeah not okay to show children gory anyone. I keep forgetting it just just we. I don't think we've even said the character's name yet. Antonio perez name is supposed to be gregorio. We've just been calling him antonio by spies eddie. There is a scene also where ms grey denko. That's teri hatcher character yeah. She comes into the safe house. She says she's with the o. S. s. and then she in carmen have this sort of like bonding moment. Where carmen gives her the information she wanted and she's like oh. You've just joined the league of like awesome awesome women spies. You know it's like this like women got his stick together moment right then it turns out that she cannot be trusted. She's working with the enemy so this what otherwise could be a nice like yeah. Women do have to stick together. Moment is completely nullified because she's an evil devious woman right which again it's like and there are things that issue more speaks to the lack of female characters in the movie in general really have carmen ingrid and miss credential and that's that's basically it because there there are a ton of male characters in kids. There's like girls but they don't do any yeah and there are like take characters similar to ms grey danko who are men like alexander minion who turns out to be this double agent but there's enough male characters that it's not your general impression right because you only have three one coming in and being like girl power and being like just kidding bitch like that doesn't and maybe <hes> doesn't bode well bedwell and something there there there are a few things with ingrid that <hes> i felt like her character later like was i don't know like in in general there we touched on this before but there's that moment <hes> when spidey spidey is wanting to take on this this mission right to mike judge or whatever and <hes> he's kind of been working on it behind her back doc and then he's like oh i gotta go save my judge and you know spy mommy comes in and he's he's pretty dismissive of her and he's like no. No no like you you stay. Does she like i wanna go with you like i'm raring to go on another adventure. She's all about going and becoming a spy again and he says no you are mommy stay at home and then the way she convinces him as she has to like seduce which and then it works isn't just like that was pretty lazy writing yeah yeah. I mean gregorio spider. Daddy corio do better is not a feminist icon. He just wants. He thinks women should stay home in the kitchen taking care of the kids not it's not ok spy daddy when they are working together. It's equal but just that that scene. I was just like man come on uh-huh shortly after that they've been captured and they're tied up in like the flu palace and she uses ring. She uses her ring to lake doc laser the ropes off of them and so she's the one who kinda saves them in like releases them and then they immediately first of all the reality room or whatever the virtual some weird. I like my augmented reality. Police slake cloud cloud room and then it is always revealed to be a green screen right really funny and then they end up in the flu house dining room where mr flip himself delve is eating this like green sludge. Yes the seating nickelodeon slime basically so weird the spoon i'm very slowly like expects them to eat. It also land on the table rate onto like a pile of gummy. It's very weird <hes> the other thing with with ingrid that this is like more of a story thing how she's treated but it is like i can. I can see i can see this both ways but you do get a lot more information about <hes> spy daddy's background than you get about her righty find out about about danny trae ho and we're thrilled to find out about the danny trae ho secret right but we find out like his family background also find out about his secret scientists background in a room full of scientists <hes> and so like his character gets a couple of cool subplots and we don't really get that for ingrid right. <hes> we get that the way she relates to it as she was like. You didn't tell me like she doesn't really have the upper hand and their relationship arrays and he is then made kind of more important to the story because he's the one who developed the third brain. He's the one who didn't destroy it so like he's he's why they are the target of flip and later minion just making him more integral to the story whereas she's just essentially tagging along because they're married and she's by couple his wife spy so yeah it would have been nice like if we do learn more about maybe his backstory in terms of his family history and connections and stuff like that and then you keep that but then make her the one who is developing the third brain and like give her that integral component to the story like it's it it is like way imbalanced in terms of what we know about him him versus what we know about her. Yeah and it's a yeah it's it's a bummer but it's like i wouldn't remove any of the spy daddy back story for the world. It's all great but it's like she could have been included more meaningfully in that story or or like you said like if she is involved in the third brain than they kind of have an equal call subplot power and for sure then show then we would have had a woman in stem which is important. You hate to see it. I wonder if that imbalance balances due to how famous either of them were because jamie you brought a good point about like what level of fame was tonio bandera during this movie was he liked to famous has to be doing this or i'm just curious about like what level of like they may be put more on internal matters 'cause he was like the recognizable face but i don't i. I truly don't know i can't i feel anyone's fame. Level was at that point like what did alan coming to that point. What was tony was tony shalhoub monkey yet like what what there's no way great to know. That's an actionable question am i. It is so hard to when was peak antonio banderas. I think it was like late nineties. Although eh who can say we've accidentally thought that tom hanks wasn't famous before he was cast in toy story so we don't know anything <music>. I think we were just tired but i knew that i had been. We're moving. This is the year before among so shillue by racing is get there are people who are i mean. The george clooney cameo. I think is treated as if he is blatantly elite to famous in richard linklater's in this movie for a second really oh yeah they're really good friends because they're both from texas. We what is he is. He like one of the bodyguards. Johny guards credited as cool spy is probably one of the guys like attacks the safe house or so yeah yeah. That's funny well. I mean goes must be an awesome friend because i feel like everyone always like like working. Yeah yeah like he. He must be like a really cool nice guy or i hope. I don't know very limited information about rod robert rodriguez except that he made spike <hes>. I've movies. I've seen the like <hes> desperado auto trilogy. Cincinnati is still one of my favorite movies. I don't know i haven't seen it in a while but mike i'm sorry i was just looking at the credited. Did it character names to see if there's any female characters that we we didn't talk about but there's so many male characters but they all have such silly names alexander under minion donnegan giggles what didn't realize mike judge's characters last names giggles teaches feel gum <hes> mister lis- chris cool spy agent johnny like who wrote this movie. It was robert rodriguez well to what you're saying catherine about like <hes> did the f- like the level of the actor's fame play into like how important their character was. I mean maybe but also so like it just tends to be the default for especially male writers and just i mean especially at this time where the men were given more important things to do. We know more about their characters. That's just been the default throughout all of history so that's not great also oh i think <hes> kurla gino is she's only <hes> twenty nine in this movie freely to she's only <hes> so they really pushed her into mom rolls else kind of early because <hes> sting but yeah when this when this movie was released. She was only twenty nine years old. No kidding yeah. Antonio benders was like fortyish. Okay okay well that checks out standard hollywood age gap at it again. We've been talking about the how there aren't that many female characters but we're forgetting about the female coded thumb thumb always wearing a sexy nurse outfit and she has like very fam- fingernails and they're painted and she has like a like the other some thumbs are like these like oh fish but the female something was like a very like like curvy sexy. I wanna i guess in general i would say the thumbs are genderless but then there there was such a clear gender signifier of ladies finger finger lady you lady finger that i'm like maybe they are tail-coated because they're unpainted dumb thumbs. I choose to interpret them as genderless but i i well not me. I think that because of that clear indication location we've got the the mail thumbs are allowed to be like the soldiers the spies and then the the only female kumbum we see is thrust thrust into this like caregiver nurse role so and like made to be sexy i yes i agree i. I think i'm going with my own head ken on this even if robert rodriguez doesn't understand that the thumb thumbs are doing their own thing identifying as they choose i right. That's how i feel. I have a several very quick notes. Things i noticed about the movie. One carmen in this movie looks exactly like joseph. Gordon levitt looked in third rock from the sun. They should have cast him as has her. The sound effects in this movie our wild finding the music in us going okay the music. There is a song <hes> sloops sings toward the middle of the movie and you're like did this get cut that from nightmare before christmas like it is such a like danny healthman timber teeny and then big reveal it. It is danielle. Danielle did write something music for this movie and then i was like now. I'm gonna like question what i'm thinking about when i say this seems like a tim burton pardon movie mike. Maybe you just sounds like danny elf movie and i'm not giving mr l._v. is <hes> his. It's almost saying i'm just on such will poulter kick that if someone makes a movie about winco boeing that will poulter should play danielle fman. I'm just putting that out into the world to all live our listeners which is all of them all of them incredible a sound effect. My favorite sound effect in that entire movie is flips cape. You hear sort of very distinct whoosh like sound and he does it so drastically he like every time he gets up. He sweeps it back and it's the loudest sound i love. I love him so much. I think allie coming is my favorite it actor of all time he's terrific alfred molina. This is like i also think no disrespect to shillue alfred really could the knocked out of the work but he he was busy being in shock alive true so also flew p- is trying trying to figure out what's missing from his children show because it's it's rated number two and he wants to be number one and he keeps pondering this and i think the answer is probably please few women in your writer's room buddy. I'm guessing any call outs missing from your show mr flu and we we did touch this briefly before but i really i thought it was. I kind of forgot this. I remembered the how that seen with flu and ginny looks visually because it's blazoned onto onto my brain forever but the fact that like a young boy expressing his feelings and trying to empathize with an adult and the adult being responsive to that like solves a major plot thing. You're just like oh well. I like because i feel like we were sort of saying that is normally normally would be like the girls role sure to use the power of feelings and if that had happened with carmen i would've been like rolling my eyes at got it but because it's junie and he is kind of like even towards the beginning spy. Daddy is kind of junie or too soft. Stop drawings. Stop up watching allen coming on t._v. And and i like it and then later i mean he proves himself. That like empathy is a good thing to have have and you know spy daddy he's. He's got a untangle some of his toxic masculinity and learn from his son. Hopefully he does that in spy kids two through through four or whichever one season is antonia antonia vendors in two. I don't remember aristotle confirmed. Yes yes firms three. I don't think i know june as he is in your gang so that is still win it. It goes crazy to of kids lord. One of my favorite parts in the movie is when they they go to the safe house and carmen finds the drawer of like the stash of emergency cash and then she's like wow emergency cash from every country three and there are ten wads of cash and it's i guess all ten countries in the world i did look very hard and studied the flags and figured out that the countries represented are canada. Germany mexico guatemala colombia the u._k. The u._s. south korea italy and argentina robert rodriguez pick his top ten. It's like these are my favorite travel destinations just getting into the trilogy event just looking at the list of names so i guess in three and i have no recollection besides video game of what happens in three but apparently we meet mike judge's donnegan giggles his whole family ooh and emily osmond places daughter gertie giggles matt o'leary and salma hayek plays his wife francesca koska giggles which i'm like a weird or couple then mike judge and salma hayek. I cannot think of in my brain. What did they talk about. How okay but isn't shark boy and lava girl like a spin off of something has to do with spike. It's i think get stylistically isn't boiling lava girl like the two characters in the game for the third one and then there's a spin off right. There's denver's dealers tailor. Law and child lounge regular is he really talks taylor lot on there twice two years ago now just say he lives there and he works there. Oh i had one last thing the teri hatcher seen when they when she comes into the safehouse makes no sense. Here's why so she finds out that the third brain exists only after carmen tells her this up to that point all the bad guys think that the third brain had been destroyed. Whenever <hes> we see the flashback of antonio benders crushing a walnut instead instead of the third brain so carman's like no the third brain lives and then teri hatcher says oh well it must be here then because it wasn't at the cortez house. Why were they searching for. Something that they think was destroyed. <hes> i should be a spy. Can you should be this by when you think about it anyway. <hes> does anyone have any other thoughts about the film mm-hmm. I am just impressed of a lot of the comedic physical gags in this movie for being an insane movie. There's a lot like geared towards. It's kids but i feel like a lot of like weird. Comedic writing things in a lot of the jokes are like four adults or like kids won't understand almost. I don't know oh it was just a good example of like gags. I was seeing in the film like visual gags that i was like oh. I didn't know that you could do this like the george clooney oh he pulls off off the eye thing and then puts it back on. I don't know i really i was just telling the silly things like really admire robert rodriguez for making something so like extremely he's like it just feels like using the cloud. He built up to this point. This was his <hes> seven movie post from dusk till dawn like he was a well established at this point and just like went for a movie spike in like a spy body horror. <hes> spy kids movie just like man that is that is a responsible use of power. I really like this is so different from most of his other work which is like already like i mean some of it's pretty like campy violence but like he he's like tarantino and that like a lot of his movies are just like this like wild wild chopping of heads and blood squirting everywhere and just like crazy violence and then he made spy kids and incidentally spy kids three eighty game over which he did direct comes out the same year as once upon a time in mexico contains more working man a movie where johnny depp's is get gouged out and his game over it says yes but i mean i just think it's like really cool and like like even though the these aren't the movies primarily remembered for by most people except for the three of us it's like he developed like this really distinct individuals style for kids movies that no one else has ever done. It's just it's so cool any directed all four spy kids movies and shark boy and lava girl commitment wow and the whole michetti and the spinoff. It's called the jedi i just i don't know this re rewatching. Those <hes> is just increased. My rabbit rigas <hes> rodriguez respect by even more than that. He's pretty dope. He's cool. Does this movie pass the bechtel tests or the spider says it does both had pass. Both i had a passing at least i twice. There's the opening scene with carmen and ingrid and there's a moment where junius off covering his wards. They have a brief conversation about like. Are they going to better. You're not going to bed. Did you brush your teeth already. Yeah everything okay at school is fine yeah and then this is kind of a duplicitous pass but it does pass between carmen and miss. <hes> gruden goes danko as well even though they're talking girl power but the subtext is grow powers fake yeah but it does pass <hes>. Does it pass again at all. I forgot to pay close attention as i should. There's just the end whenever the kids reunite with the parents. I don't think i don't think so because carmen does i feel like carmen does most of the talking but she's talking to george like she's talking to the t._v. Okay and what about in the fluke house does it i couldn't i i notice a lot of antonio banderas talking. It's mostly. I think the main thing is that there's just not enough. There's like there's three female characters in the movie and it's completely outweight. I think in little parts at passes like like pretty easily with with the interactions but i think it's mostly like when there as a family it's antonio banderas kind of leading the charge of of like we're a family. We're gonna do this as opposed to ingrid and card turley unless i'm missing <hes> missing scene or something number i mean given the fact that we only have three three female characters that have any significance. All of them do have conversations with each other at very least. There's a sort of passed between <hes> gruden cohen ingrid that you could. I mean it's when they're like what she's like on the t._v. Or something yeah tv in the car but the subtext of learning was yeah so the subtext doesn't work on paper technically weekly works. We've you know the bechtel test is flawed metric arguing about it is basically pointless sure yeah. No i mean at very least the female characters we are given. We know who they are. They care about each other and it's not always about the majority men men in the movie true. Yes let's read the movie on our nipple scale show we <hes> zero to five nipples based on its representation presentation of women. I'm gonna give this. I suppose it would give it like a three because it is handling the way hey women and girls are represented in media better than a lot of media targeted toward children at least of the films films. We've covered so far you know there's there's parody among the genders that we see but the fact that there are far more men and then there are female characters the fact that antonio banderas hates women and just want them to be mummies who's to hit home <hes> <hes> but <hes> no i mean i think it does a lot of of good things and <hes> especially the fact that it's like <hes> representation of latin lat next mixed family like that onscreen being the driving force of the narrative yeah i love alan cumming and all my nipples go to him. I go this and i'm probably overshooting it a little bit but i'm going to three and a half. I i love carmen woman. <hes> and i love hearing your connection to her catherine. Which was i mean something that didn't because i was a you know as a little white girl and had truly truly an embarrassment of riches of <hes> problematic characters to latch onto but the fact that i mean it's like carmen is a really cool character because she's not a problematic character. She's like a really cool and also realistic like example for a girl that age like she kicks her brothers asked but she loves them and like she's good at stuff and she's observant and like bad character. Alone is just like i don't know like i it's feels like a miracle that that character avoids so many of the pitfalls that a preteen girl character written by a man would normally fall all too right because it's usually that like precocious like genius child trope like the wise beyond her years or child or sexualize too early ah or any number of horrible things but she's truly treated just like character and has flaws. She's still wets. The bed sometimes like it's. I don't know i i just i really love how the spy kids are written in. This movie. June is a really <hes> really cool example of like not a hyper masculine little boy and having that be part of what makes him cool and like part of what makes him good being a spy so i think it's great yeah and <hes> i just just a fun fact throw into the ring. Robert rodriguez walked alexa vega down the aisle. <hes> oh my has to be so nice right like grit we did ask i did pose the question and was alan coming at the meghan trainor sabar wedding. I i guess the real question is was because and incoming do the fishing take. What did they do. What was their role. I hope that being junie and being an empathetic young male character is what tot daryl a eh that it's okay to be mr meghan trainor <hes> and also just <hes> something that i come meeting to bring up last night and then i think i either got embarrassed or tired tired and kept forgetting to say as alexa vega who now goes up by alexa pain a vague because she <hes> she and her husband combined their last names which is whole thing but she has found a very successful <hes> second life in hallmark movies. She's been in six in a row so goodness yeah. She's coming for all of the full house ladies in-home trail anyways and i do have a few issues with the way ah ingrid's characters presented just mainly wish we knew more about her and that there were more female characters but carman. I don't know communist such a victory <hes> four four four all and so is jimmy so three and a half for me an a give all of them to shalhoub all right yeah wonderful for all of his heads. He's gonna need apples for each of his or her catherine. I i think i'm going to give it a four out of five only because i'm just just jumping off of jamie's point of carmen being such a victory and it's like the movie set out. I think what it wanted to do which was show oh these kids in like a really cool way and i think it successfully did that. Because in my head the movie is more about the two kids learning about themselves rather than the parents yeah and i think it successfully did that and i think like what you're saying was like carmen is well developed and she's to me like the lead like i think her engineer equally the stars of the movie but i feel like watching her kind of bumped it up being like no she's cool. I want to be like her like she's a she's a spy but she's also like weird and like she can be made fun of and it's fine. I think that's why i pushed it up a little bit but i agree. I think there's not enough female characters and the other two adults just weren't developed enough and i think they could have been easily but i think it. I think it does more good than it does harm so so i'll give it i'll give it that and as a movie in general ten out of ten forever wallace so many good things <music>. We also forgot to mention that we learned that carmen skip school to go off to believe sometimes. She says somehow she manages is to go from wherever they live again never clear but wherever they live to believe to just just hang out twice a month twice a month or something yeah she was like she skipped school school twice a month. I'll give one nipple to that scene. Where jimmy has the what is it the little save handcuffed to his hand and he wants to get it off and he smacks it on the rock or the wall and and it bounces back it is the fun in the head. It's the funniest thing in that movie and i will give the rest of that rating to the entire safe house house best thing the little packets that turn into a man there clearly pop tarts clearly pop tarts packaging aging product that mcdonald's thing. You're just like oh. It's like the primarily wanted a big mac. I know i've got sludge so i can't eat wine pretty coming. Sledge fletch also may be stolen from nightmare for christmas. I guess telling you where sally is eating greens soup. I don't know there's some weird crossover that i think we're missing well anyway kathryn. Thanks heard coming on the podcast so excited. I finally convinced you to watch it after years. There's so fun to watch. Everyone should watch this movie in a group to. It's so much fun to watch no room. It's wild yeah so yeah. Thanks for being here. What would you like to plug oh. I don't no no you online <hes> twitter. I guess that hell hole <hes>. It's just my name at catherine leeann. They do a u._c._b. Be show every friday is at eleven called j throwback friday. <hes> rod stewart lives every wednesday in highland park. Stand up. Show atlantic city's schedule at u._c. Be be every second thursday at u._c._d. Franklin eight p._m. Yeah <hes>. I think that's it all right well. If you live in l. a. or visit didn't come to the all those damn cleese they high you run there. You can follow us on social media at back to cast <hes> we've got a patriot aka matron the you can give money from any of the following countries south korea korea argentina. They're only ten country u._k. There's only ten of them if you don't live one of those countries i'm sorry but you don't have money also. I don't like the like they listed countries that i think share a currency hang on let me i'm just going to guatemala and colombia do they. All i don't know which countries us what a like but like germany and italy are on the euro but also i did some extra research and i think link in two thousand one italy was using another type of currency in addition to like they hadn't fully <hes> adopted the euro yet. I don't know anyway anyone can send us fun facts about robert rodriguez to prove that he's a nice man. Please please any all like let's turn this into like like just a million nice robert rodriguez. I mean the fact that he walked on the aisle. You're dislike so nice nice. Okay patriotic yeah matron. It's five dollars a month. Get you to bennett's episodes every month. Plus our entire back catalogue of bonus episodes <hes>. We've got merch for sale. <hes> feminist icon queer here. I con con alfred molina. Feminism is the law now a whole slew of option. Maybe i'll make a spy daddy eddie spy mommy designed or fun or just by parents for parents would be such confusing sure i request a commission of flu and minion but wearing like the spy gear that like carmen and junie wear at at some point yes well okay and then do you want me minion with house or glasses or there's so many options better redesign amal <hes> buyer merchant t public dot com slash d bechtel cast <hes> you can visit our website for for various things bechtel cast dot com has episodes has a link to our merge store has upcoming live shows so check those out and <hes> done dunant goodbye so i start filling a sharp pain in my abdomen easily the worst pain i've ever felt in my entire life. I thought i was dying. The nurse says we're not sure what's wrong but we think you have some sludge in your gallbladder caitland toronto of the bechtel cast here to tell you about my brand new podcast sludge in american healthcare story about a medical nightmare that i am currently experiencing on this podcast i recount an incredibly frustrating series of events that starts with severe abdominal pain followed by an unofficial diagnosis of quote probably probably having sludge followed by me having to jump through several hoops in an attempt to get any medical care whatsoever and the story ends with still will not having an ending this podcast demonstrates how the healthcare system in the united states is just as broken as the bodies of many americans that this system neglects flex on a daily basis listen and subscribe to sludge an american healthcare story wherever you get your podcasts.

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