Go With The Float
<music> evening everyone welcome to the Kensington quarter. I'm Jeff and I'm Tom Today. We have Steven Braila who is the owner and operator with go the float which is a sensory Surrey deprivation tank company Stephen How you doing good guys. Thanks for having me glad to be here. No we're excited where we're going to hide. You're able to come on man so tell Assad tells like the little bit of back story and then obviously Z.. Shout out to sea to Corey for hooking us out so that was awesome yeah so <hes> yeah of course the man he's dating my cousin Elizabeth. They're they're out in San Diego. You guys are in Kansas and I'm on on the east coast so the the full country connection it is a three way tie the Pacific <hes> yes a little bit about the the business we actually just opened <hes> about seven months ago and the story goes was on the first floor was almost eleven years ago now on midstate in Massachusetts in place call Worcester. I went <hes> seeking it out based on advice of Joe Rogan before he was with his podcast Joe Rogan Joe Rogan is like single handedly responsible for the rise of Clo- industry <hes> I go to these flow conferences and he's just like a God there you know because of now his outreach with the most popular podcast there is but he was just laughing about it on youtube like I said eleven fifteen years ago even in so <hes> I was like all right let's do it. I looked around nowhere near me in so I went out to worcester they. They're not like I said central mass in they are not <hes> it was not a full blown slow center. They were just doing massage like energy healing all other types of things at a spare room with a flow tank <hes> with no expectations as I took the dive in it absolutely blew my mind and the rest is history now do did you the big question number one question everyone asks is. Did you hallucinate like your first time or do you hallucinate when you actually are diving diving or no no. I don't and so that's that's you know there's this whole thing with floating where you know no expectations in <hes> do not program was kind of the theory of the inventor John Lilly in unfortunately I feel like that's what Joe Does for a lot of people is you know he has some far out experiences mainly using edibles in there in kind of builds people's expectations up to where they're not like entering the fifth dimension with like dragons goblins disappointed for for me though what happened was it was really like a it was a god of body experiences before I knew anything about like meditation or mindfulness and it's funny. I remember come back home until my family try and explain what happened in what I was saying. It was like I just it's not that I was floating through space that I I was space. I was like it was like I I was like everything's energy. It was like something that's kind of <hes> comparable play <hes> explaining some sort taking a trip but I was completely sober going in there and <hes> I like left. My Body is is pretty much happier well. That's kind of a cool thing about like sensory deprivation right because I know like even I honestly don't meditate enough personally sleep but it's something that you know I I have <hes> you know I have worked with and whatnot but trying to disconnect yourself from kind of those Yo those other sensory experiences is is I think in my opinion one of the hardest parts of meditating waiting so you find especially like <hes> I mean I'm sure you get benefits all across from different levels of experience meditating right from beginners to people who have been doing it for years but like I said at least yes I see for someone who's a novice like myself real benefits of maybe trying to you know try out chamber like that and getting that you Kinda really nice experience definitely as a matter of fact I had a young man come in today who was saying that he's been Kinda getting into meditation struggling with it and so that was kind of his alert to this in on the other end of it you have people who are experienced meditators who really dig it because they can kind of take their game to the next level so <hes> as if meditation was hardest mentally you're dealing with the physical aspects of a sitting practice where gravity's fighting on you aches and pains your back or your legs cramping up but in the tank all that is removed. Who've you know that you're you have the time in space for yourself or no one's trying to call you? It's just removes it removes all the I'll be obstacles into makes it that much easier to just enter enter the the meditation space. The whole thing about it too is interesting for me and I'm sure that you know about this but the actual history of the is crazy because realistic. I mean we're coming up here. It's two thousand nine hundred seventy. The two thousand twenty soon float tanks are huge like one thousand nine hundred eighty nine thousand nine hundred eighty one there was like a huge business for it and then the hold AIDS epidemic took off people have like this thing that if you got into a flow tank that somebody was in before that it like could you could somehow contract aids not knowing that like float tanks are actually some of the most sanitary things you can actually get into because of the salt and everything but I just always found that so interesting that like it took that many years you know for the curse to wear off off because you float tanks are still something that even our still kind of like taboo Oh yeah and not only the <hes> the flow tank industry but I think the whole aquatic industry as a whole took a hit in the eighties when that was all right <hes> <hes> <hes> fortunately do too. I think now with social media in the Internet in general podcast go back to Joe Rogan. The taboo is definitely dropping in also you mentioned with the cleanliness of the water in the tanks. I can honestly say the after all the research in <hes> what I've learned that the flow tank waters probably the cleanest public water that you're GONNA get into which is frustrating because it kind of <hes> skeeve some people out the whole idea of getting into water that someone was just end yet. They won't twice about jumping into a swimming pool that you know people were just swimming in people who are at home caring for their own pools really are probably not doing the due diligence with the proper procedure of keeping things clean and I think a lot of times people are just <hes> building up excuses to not have the experience because when it comes down to it they're pretty frayed of just being alone nothing no phone. No people in it can kind of freak some people out and you know what that's I was laughing with Tom earlier. We're Kinda. Get set up like I gotta ask because like I'll be honest like when I was Thomson your website earlier in the week and I was kind of looking through everything and I was one the things that Kinda came through my head is like man I kinda see myself like get a little freaked out by the experience. You know maybe even like a little claustrophobic. I was thinking I was do you view encounter that very often with the with your with your clientele yes so we were just talking about the sanitation keeping people away but the number one reason is definitely claustrophobia which is also very frustrating because when you look at the psychological d._s._m.. Handbook in in what claustrophobia actually is in entails less than five percent of the population is actually claustrophobic and then you start talking about floating to people suddenly seventy five percent of the population as possible when people think of Claustrophobia obviously it's the small space which is that is true but the other piece to Claustrophobia Israeli a lack of control in that space so if you think of circumstances like an elevator an airplane or the famous M._R._I.. Machine that freaks everywhere now. If something goes wrong there's technical malfunction the power whatever then your stock and there's nothing you can do. It's again out of your control. which is what is the Claustrophobia but in the tank you're in complete control of the experience you can get out whenever you want you know and so it takes a lot of people coming in in recognizing this in seeing me showing them instill even sometimes they're not down but I can say is that some people who come in that are very scared of the claustrophobia after they come in do it? They basically garner the courage they do it and afterwards like they're fine not one time has someone like run out the front or refuses to do it is just the initial blockage and once they get get through they <hes> they feel good and safe and they dig it. Yeah I was <hes> that's one of the things is like trying to overcome that initial Yoho coming that initial hurdle you know like just getting over that fear and realizing okay. This isn't so bad. It's like what I'd compare it to like. You know riding up to the first drop on a roller coaster. I also believe that it's kind of like a rollercoaster thing because one of the other big things that I've heard <hes> as far as fear ear is that <hes> people actually have a fear of drowning in these and it's it's funny because it was not funny drowning out fun but you have a greater chance of drowning in your bathroom tub than you do of of drowning and attained taint to be honest and I mean I don't know if you've ever like rolled over and got salt water in your eyes but it hurts and so like you're GonNa wake up if you if you do fall asleep and like it's actually good to fall asleep in these things. So what are your thoughts will not yeah. That's actually a common question in. I just tell people you know no one's ever died in a floating people do fall asleep actually tell them if they died via seamless transition it would be a quite a good way to go on then and then I fall with come on man like what kind of business model would that be like. You know tired of life amount in to go with the flow and just you know ended up yeah. It's hard to run a business. When you're costly killing off your client now auditorium bathroom with the rest of the bodies would keep them with all the Saul you know yeah? I just I've never i. I think the thing is that people find excuses for things that are new. It's irrational. Fear Yeah fear. It's irrational one of the one of the I don't know if you get a chance to listen to this sometime. We did a podcast called OPTIMA wellness with a guy who owns a crow spa basically and you know and even. In Kansas were Lawrence considers itself a progressive town <hes> but it's kind of like mid tier progressive. I guess it's it's very progressive as far as as Midwest as far as the mid left good but it's super hard to convince people to go do <hes> cryotherapy man like I it's incredible and I imagine that flow tanks here probably about the same yeah you know I. I wonder about that because you know we're doing our thing up. In <hes> in the northeast <hes> Western mass is real liberal and it. It's still tough but I think like an hour these power these places down in Tennessee and Georgia you know Texas is spot man I for some reason like every by I lived in Texas pilot rental PASA which is different version but east Texas is like becoming the forefront for the fitness and nutrition and like <hes> you know alternative medicine and it's like how what why where when did Texas start becoming such like a <hes> you know a big move for this will Austin Right Austin yeah definitely yeah. There's there's several flow centers in Austin yeah the guy who owns the krause by here's from Dallas and he's warning to open yeah. He's he's warning to open like afloat place here and he's like I. Am You know if it's worth it man. I'm like a weird. It's a weird business model but I I feel like it could be successful in the right environment. We know what there's a lot helping it to as far as like not even treacly it's in the media now it's in the movies. It's a big thing helping all the athletes doing it. You know so being up here in New England. I was on this train for awhile knowing 'cause I'm just you know I'm in. I'm in the business. I've known for years that the Patriots have newsflow inflow tanks <hes> Tom Brady his own personal floating in his home and it Kinda got leaked on their super bowl run this year through social media one of the coaches naked tweet or something about how they've been using but I mean the the seahawks hawks baseball team. steph curry is huge voter <hes> so it's it's only a matter of time I believe I think that what's happening is kind of how yoga blew up the next thing that's happening. <hes> is the mindfulness you have to realize that one point yoga was the weird thing that all the hippies stretchy hit be were doing you know and now it's like with this mindful thing people are trying to move into <hes> meditation but the Western culture in the states ages struggles with that the disciplined the patients in the practice of of a sitting practice in that is where floating comes in because it's really like a cheat code to get to these states that we were saying earlier how all these other distractions removed food and so it. I really think it's just inevitable and it's not so much that exploding that I believe in it's it's the mindfulness meditation wave happening in you know Tom. We kind of actually very first episode was kind of about you know basically just mental L. Health and you know I know that I personally haven't experienced going going through mental health crisis a few years ago and that was one of the things that you really really helped me was just that meditation that might just even just a few minutes of mindfulness <unk> <unk> mindfulness meditation. You know is can make such a huge impact and you if you're talking about Coronado Specific Chunkier Dade. Actually you really commit to that. I mean that's that's just awesome in the benefits of it are are amazing yeah so are we. Are both of you guys veterans yet. We are yet yeah so there's so like I mentioned I go to these flow conferences right and there's a strong on veteran presence there. There's this <hes> this one outfit that goes who's on his his name is Gary. I I wish I knew the name of what we stands by is Gary From From Force Compass of Gary sinise Gary sinise. I don't know he's an older gentleman. I duNNo. I Dunno Gary Gary Gary sinise. She's from <hes>. He was Lieutenant Dan Enforce but he's like this huge like veteran presence in like a lot of things so I was curious. If it was yeah no no it's not anyone that <hes> is famous or anything but basically the <hes> <hes> because the floating is helping veterans with their with their trauma. I think it's mainly a mental thing but obviously pretty this whole time. We have been talking about mindfulness in how a floating also relates to the mind but really it's a physical thing too where you're in there in this near gravity environment your spine decompressing your muscles relax. The solve epsom salt is actually made up of magnesium sulfate so the magnesium. They're doing the research with it now. <hes> penetrating skin going into the body what they're finding is that that could possibly better avenue for the magnesium to enter the system anyway. It's kind of a big thing in the health world now where is all these magnesium creams instead of aw taking it in topically so that's also a big benefit of <hes> of the physical benefit of floating as well. What's <hes> what's the longest you floated the lightest I floated and done a couple of four hour floats identify our flow <unk>? I got about halfway in between the five hour Kinda rinsed off. It's nice because when I flow I have the luxury of not setting alarm or anything. I just kind of get in there in. I get out whenever I feel right sometimes times. It's an hour sometimes it's three hours do you do. Do you feel like time changes while you're in there like do you feel like it's a like guy. I've heard that like some people go in for and because like a lot of people fall asleep during it and I've heard people just like fall asleep and then Mike <unk> like just do like an hour and be like all I just I feel like I slept four to six hours yes so that was kind of part of the Patriots tweet there where they said the coaches were using them to for that very reason that I think Kinda got twisted in that forget what the exact tweet was basically they go in there for forty five minutes or whatever it was equal like or hours asleep in that. I don't think that's necessarily true what would it is. It's it's <unk> is replenishing certain endorphins and dopamine levels that would be equivalent to that much sleep not a whole system for the body of the sleep because put it this way I've I've slept in the tank for you know two a two and a half hours at a clip late at night and then I get out and I get home and I go to bed. I'm not like you know good to go for the day so I think it's more of a brain chemistry things so it's not the secret to like being able to stay up for for twenty two hour days and that was a pipedream anyway so so I got a I'm. I'm dumb country Bumpkin so like let's say I walk into a place like yours for the first time. Can you how to walk. Walk us through what what's the experience like for for a first time person just kinda from start to finish like <hes>. Can you describe that for us. Yes <hes> people come in. We have you know read a little waiver. It's basically weekly kind of a preamble of what's to come and then I we have them use the restroom and then I take him into the flow room and give him the whole spiel. You know this is how you get into now safely. You take your shower at your face dry. I had to avoid getting the water in your eyes in some people. Are you know pretty easy going at yet. We're good other. People are really nervous and kind of have to put some energy into that making feel comfortable other times people. I really want to know what's going to happen to me in there. What's what's going to happen to my mind in this and that and I go back to the <hes> do not program thing where I will tell you how to be safe and they're like I said get into now physically safe but as far as what's going to happen in the mind if I were to tell people like all you're probably going to be nervous at first and then you're relaxed and then you go through this and then this is going to happen? That's that's taking away the infinite amount of possibilities of what could happen in never mind that was kind of the teachings of of John Lilly the inventor of the tanger outstanding. You know that's kind of one of those things like I think we're I don't know what it is about our culture but we're really Sakata in some ways adverse I to like just experiencing the moment you know like we we WanNa know so much about four every about everything before we go into it and said just Kinda like kicking back in like enjoying it and take it all in yeah no expectations I tell people I think people are so afraid of not having their phone on them for an hour that it's hard to like disconnect from that I it's weird man like Jeff and I talked a lot about how like the <hes> you know. Social media plays so much into the Zayed's and stuff of people including myself and it's really interesting to me because I I don't see I see this as something that could obviously blow up and the <hes> the one thing is I think is society though we need to come together and admit that it's okay to to not be okay so many people have a hard time doing anything either as alternative medicine or medicine now to admit that something's wrong wrong with them. You know and so to say like okay like hey this could maybe help me mentally or even physically <hes> you would have to then admit that you needed that help and I think that's a hard thing for people to do. Yes so a lot out of <hes> one of the main reasons people are coming to this is like I would say with anxiety and so it's tricky because they're anxious yet. Floating provokes anxiety drugs. It's like a catch twenty two in yeah a lot of people coming in they will not walk in and be like hey like. I'm really anxious about this year's on my problems so it which would be easier for me. I mean I'm not a doctor psychologist but yeah at least we could work together. We're like you said that people can hide behind this curtain of letting them know that something's wrong with them. <hes> I can't say though that the first study done with voting on in I actually your neighbors Aaron Oklahoma doing the research at the Laureate Korea Institute for Brain Research in Tulsa is Dr Jonathan Einstein the first experiment data driven experiment they did was dealing with people with anxiety and I think it was about fifty patients they had come in and they we're just testing their levels. They hope all the brain scans in everything in across the board. It was helping these people and he said you have to realize though like they knew they were coming into this environment that was there additional <hes> psychologists allergists there was like a professional setting you know so going back to people coming into a public space who are not really gonna be open about what's going on with it can provoke some anxiety which is kind of like a catch twenty two there do. It turns people away or do you feel like people Ziobro Kinda. Give it a second chance after that like. Have you had any experience talking to people with anxiety about like who who either you know gone into them like Oh man. I was claustrophobic like well. You weren't really claustrophobic of it but maybe you had a panic attack but like we can work through this or does it seem to kind of help from the get-go. Yes Oh people people would admit to being like really anxious in the beginning in the sometimes. You're like Oh man. I'm sitting in their thinking again after ten minutes. I'm going to have to get out until Steve. I just couldn't do it you know and then they <hes> they really just breathe through it and in the end up. It's an environment where your brain feels safe like there's no fighter flight your it's a relaxed you're good to go. There can be some panic in the beginning and sometimes almost WANNA tell people like hey if you panic in the beginning like then do this but les echos back to the programming because I don't want to provoke panic if it's not even going to happen but I think it would be helpful to almost help people to just just like you know sit through the <hes> the first uncomfortable few ten minutes in go through it but I think that goes back to why this is so powerful because people tend to do it anyway. I give the example of like meditation where if I if you have a sitting practice in you're meditating and you know the first five minutes or whatever you're uncomfortable you're backers distraction you just get up and walk away and you end it but in the tank so many factors where even besides the environment the fact that you carved out time to do this you drove to the space. You paid the money you you committed to yourself that. This is something you were GonNa do now. You're in the tank. You're naked. You're laying in this water to just get up and end at all you would did you just say I guess I'll just tough it out and then the people do and then they're rewarded and they're in they get on the the peace owns will out imagine the you know at least for me. I feel like there's something very empowering to about Yukata getting getting through that that that moment of anxiety that moment of fear whatever it is so I mean that and that's Kinda I mean in a way I could see that almost being part of the part part of the experience you know Hey I countered something difficult and I got through it and I was rewarded in the in for the view you get a lot. Do you get a lot of feedback like that for people or Yemen Yup nature loves curry said say they <hes> code. I dig by my my good my good buddy terence McKenna. You guys know terrance absorb. Wait wait wait donate theory yeah yeah yes yeah yeah. I don't know if you can see it or not but I have the stone date theory Tattoo on my arm. Oh yes so okay you have a stone. Have you guys ever floated. No no you ever stoned ape theory Tattoo. You've never been in the flu yet. Swear why so why not let south south about this a so so dead serious and and Jeff can attest to this. I'm not bullshitting you at all. <hes> I was in Alaska from twelve to fifteen with corey right so I had <hes> seen krause SPA cryotherapy before in El Passer when I left right so get to Alaska where there's nothing. There's nothing might this whatsoever. There's no cryotherapy. There's no floating you know twelve and fifteen I got down here and I was telling Jeff for like months like I need to find cryotherapy plays. I need to find this. I need this and we're going to do it so come to find out there's like one here and then now you know about floating. I'm like okay now I have to I have to hop in the float tank now so it's one of those things where I not that I'm in no way shape or form like afraid afraid to do it. I just need to do it for me. It's not it's not fearful for me at all. I WANNA do it. It's just one of those things I've never <hes>. I've never really <hes>. I just made the time to do it. I'm totally down to give it a shot so it sounds like a pretty matt like like I said I. I wish I did it more but I'm I'm definitely all about the mindfulness and the meditating and you know I do it. You can ask Tom like him and I him and I go to school together and there'll be days where I'm in the library and I will just like check out for like fifteen eighteen minutes and I'll come back to it on mood will be different. Dhabi like like tell that was good for you. Yeah I jeff and I both said that we were going to speak to you first and then do floating afterwards but we've been looking up we actually like literally bound Corey actually found place in Kansas City and then I found out that <hes> a place here in Lawrence actually does it to kind of like what you were saying earlier. It's not like an actual devoted float. It's like acupuncture massage like all that and then they have afloat. Take take it so I I. I think that we're going to end up doing the one in Kansas City. That's actually just a float tank only kind of place out that yet. So how far is that from your bike twenty five thirty minutes at cool. Yeah we go to Kansas City quite often so it's not far from us at all. We're like actually like the last I don't know I wouldn't I mean we're definitely not in Kansas City Metro area but the neighborhoods that are not far from here. That's the thing about the like being in Kansas like everything's like everything's a lot but more spread out but like you know Kansas City what probably thirty miles yet the city but I mean it we we don't have the the congestion everything y'all have. We Brown pretty quick out here so you wouldn't think twice about like Dr Thirty minutes. Oh God it takes thirty minutes <hes> in <hes> they'll be a guy listen this named bill who <hes> his the cry ASPIRA. It's it's on it's two point three miles from here but it's considered the west side the town and it takes like twenty minutes to get there and he makes fun of us when he comes into town because he's like you guys. I won't even drive over there and we'll do it takes like twenty minutes to get there over just joking with because we go there all the time and he's like well. If you lived in Dallas you'd hate it and Mike Yeah probably so that's why we don't live in Dallas. Matter is Lawrence is hard to get around in like literally you can almost drive to Kansas City in the time if you catch it in the wrong time of day son Lawrence so <hes> it's just kind of one of those things but now in Kansas City. We go there basically whenever we want so we'll we'll. We'll definitely check it out you for sure. I have to ask you though what you think about this donate theory. I think it's possibility yeah yeah I definitely think positively I have a terrence book on the coffee table just mainly for like <hes> conversation you know I love conversation piece talking about terrence and his ideas is all that's what that's it's one of the best thing about working in flow of center usually working using the term working 'cause I don't really feel like that but you know people come out of their flow and no matter what their background age whatever is it's not you know two minutes before we're talking about the stoned ape theory or consciousness or is God real. You know there's really not much small talk that goes on in the bow center is scooping looping whatever and then his brothers actually like considered a I mean I guess he's The scientist of the of the two you know and <hes> it's funny because if you look at Terence's earlier work cabinet his brother actually like supported awarded a lot of that work so it's like it. It's <hes> it. It's funny to me that I think that it has a very very real possibility of being somewhat true and it it. It's almost laughable I think but it it's a society based thing that we're in now that people don't even acknowledge that it could be true yeah will. There's you know it's cool because like this whole psychedelic renaissance happening people WanNa talk about going back to the sixties and that was the time for it all and yeah. I think it wasn't really you know got these substances on the map but the thing is the research has been suppressed for so long that now in two thousand nineteen. We're finally doing the science even with cannabis. You know it's it's it's GonNa be. I feel like everyone's going to be you know using <hes> doing at least on the C._b._d.'s has as a medicinal thing saying the issues there repressed the research for so long probably the pharmaceuticals the government but now you look at organizations like maps. Are you familiar with Lia Rick Dobelin in what they're doing with maps. Now go ahead I oh we're enlightened us. So that's the the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies in on this. This'll interest you guys veterans because the worst they're they're. They're doing is dealing with veterans and they're using 'em the in suicide even to treat veterans or P._T._S._d.. Yellow Sivan I think is more geared towards depression in like end of life <hes> terminal illnesses with the end the A._M._A.. They're finding that three within three <hes> uses uses of its clinical settings therapists in you know there's a lot they do working with the veterans before in they have sessions without the substances before but they're using substances in three different sessions in in the big chair ray is like upwards of like seventy percent which is unheard of for <hes> for instance. I think pharmaceutic in order for <unk> pharmaceutical the past it really just has to the placebo has to be over fifty percent so if it's helping fifty percent fifty one percent of people boom you know slapping into advil bottle and sell it to the masses so this is huge and not only is it helping turn these veterans. It's there's no ongoing. Don't lane treatment of of absences. It's just the therapy so where's the money in that. I think that's where all the fear is in there just using the P. T. at sea to get their foot in the door the government because it's like how are you going to say how's the government going to fire back and say oh. We don't want to help our veterans really this is going to be helping all sorts of people <hes> they're. They're saying that these substances are GonNa be like two psychotherapy. What the microscope was disci- like how did we? How did we go on? How did how did we not have these you know well? I actually lied to you because I do know what matches because I probably donated four hundred dollars to it through on it. <hes> US yeah because that's that's when you check out on it yet so you can donate donate money to okay yeah and so I so <hes> no I I agree. I think the thing is though is that where pharmaceuticals have controlled the market for so long that if let's let's say the it went in a different route and you know suicide when all that was used twenty thirty years ago but was controlled by the pharmacy it will it would be much popular today. You know it wouldn't be a schedule whatever was scheduled to scheduled three whatever it is drug in places that you know and we all clearly know that that's not what. What is you know and it's the whole war on drugs in the nineties really <hes> put a it started as a young thing because what you remember dare the the <unk> you know yeah and you know and then like the nineties commercials where you're smoking a joint in your dog starts talking to you and you melt into the couch and then your friend tate you like just weird stuff you know it's when you start showing commercials like that to? Ah Developing brains then though saint people when they're thirty forty years old they're the same people that look at you and go like what do you mean. You know you WANNA try this. That's that's that's drugs and you're like no. It's really not 'cause like you're over here popping Oxycontin five five times a day like there's you can't I it's it's become a thing where the government has almost brainwash people into believing that it's okay to pop pills because they're prescribed by a doctor but doing a natural way that so that's crazy in that makes zero sense to me whatsoever what makes sense to me because with the bills they can make a ton of money other things they can't so to me. That's what I mean. I don't know you know I'm sure sure there's there's people who know a lot more about this new guy. That's what it breaks down to me. It's always about money but you mentioned earlier val like the taboo of floating and I think there's a taboo involved with these substances to in and I really don't even like calling them <hes> drugs dogs because they're <hes> you know in in using the word recreational cannabis to I don't like that term either but that's kind of what they're doing with all this <hes> Michael Palin. Are You Ezra Miller with the author Michael Pollen hero the omnivores dilemma he rose <hes> botany of Desire Aussies really big in the whole foods movement. He is a New York Times bestselling author. He just came out with the book how to change in your mind. Are you yet Arab that yes in which was right about that is like well like you know. This is not <hes> why what's Mike Pollen doing writing a book like this. It's not some like you know. Dennis McKenna's worth again is all well forget Dennis Mckenna L._A.. He's to to the norms are the people who are more conservative. You know he's just another crazy drug guy but <hes> michaels got some cloud in. I think the name of the title of the book is perfect to how to change your mind. People who are a little more conservative. I point them in the direction to that book and see if Michael Really cannot can't change your mind about these substances lifting the taboo will right and that's the thing too is that you know Joe. Rogan has has a huge following but I believe he's still looked at <hes> by the older generation. The older conservative generation as like with guy has sleeve tattoos you know he commentaries aries for M._M._a.. Fights he smokes pot on his show like we're not going to believe anything. He says. It doesn't matter who he brings on you know he and he does he brings some of the most intelligent people in the world and <hes> I was telling Jeff about this and maybe you can and I'm hoping that you know more about this than me because Jeff and I are talking about this the other day and he's like I got to hear this. I haven't gone back and found the episode but there was a psychiatrist that Joe brought on probably a year ago half a year ago and he had done like a trip around Europe and was going basically to where they were like <hes> shooting heroin in like clinics clinics any was like medicine bike. They weren't doing it for like to get high. They would like go in the morning before I work. Shoot like a small dose before they went home for the day would shoot a small dose like. Have you ever heard of this at all or know anything. I'm talking about yeah I do. I think there's several countries doing this. I think Portugal Portugal took so people people point point that out in conversation in a Maya she with that is like you know the United States has three hundred million people. We can't just adopt these policies of like these smaller donations that are you know have the population of Massachusetts alone. It's it's a little more complicated than that. <hes> I do basically they're like these clinics where people can go to you know get clean stuff and then it then. It's like a rehab in there helping the railroad and just like throwing a jail so I think that's you know that might be the future leading the way but again. It's something I don't know if they would do that state by state or how they're gonNA go about doing it but I think these people who have addictions is to just like eat thrown in jail is now is not the most healthy productive or financially stable <hes> costs for anyone no yeah I. I'M TRYING TO GET JEFF to go in Iowa's could trip with me and will he doesn't want to go one but he he told me actually told me the other day go but jeff he was. I I don't know I I really WanNa do this one. I'm just all about my thing is i. Don't look at it like you. Were saying earlier as a drug. You know what I'm saying like. I looked at it like these are things that people have been doing for thousands and thousands of years and I just want to try it and if it gives me any like Disney. Just you know two percent chance of being a better person. Why would I not do it and that's kind of how I view those things and I I don't? I know that everyone doesn't see it like that. When you talk to other people about it they're like Oh yeah? You're just going to Amazon do a drug trip trek now what I'm doing all right have you. Have you ever done any certain now so <hes> yes my thing with Iowa. I've never done Iowa Go. <hes> thing which hi wasp is like yet your to do it properly. I believe you would have to go to Amazon in like you know now. There's this thing in the states in like you go to L._A.. For instance in every other person who is a shaman yet. It's like it can be dangerous. I mean you don't know what you're getting in on. These people's intentions are my whole thing with the way I use. psychedelics is very intentional in its. It's typically mushrooms in you know. I'm sure you know good deal about <hes> suicide. Even if you're into terrence in how he he talks about him and to me it's like when I'm doing these things. The last thing I WANNA do is be sending circle of twenty other people who in Iowa you know someone's pershing to the right someone screaming to the last in I'm trying to connect with God or whatever hurt but I believe I believe in <hes> like Taryn socks about the being alone in the silence darkness in in just going that way. I don't WanNa perturb you or you know no. No you earn other no and I think people who do it's great but I just think that on you know the way I've experienced. <hes> getting control of the mushroom in just having that you know is just between you in the <hes> you in the mushroom van. N Morrison has this song. It's like a stealing this quote from terrence. Take <unk> incident top where it's called. The garden I believe in one of the lyrics is not Cherno. Grow just you you in in the garden. Basically it removes all the obstacles of of man and just zoo in contact with the other again with the with the Shamans in this in that there's so many variables involved in finding the right a person <hes> but <hes> it's not something to take lightly in something I would say just run into but terence will definitely lead you in the right direction you deficient. That's why you like the floating so much <hes> let's if if it wasn't for my experience with mushrooms we probably wouldn't be sitting here talking right now about how I am operating afloat center. I have not used mushrooms entertain. That was my next question. That was literally literally my next question. I was like well. We'll see well. There's a chance you turn into a prominent eight the to do that so I'm not really have you seen the movie altered states. Don't so okay so I I was going to ask you about that. I actually that was something else that I meant to bring up. <hes> wasn't that like like a huge bash against the flow tanks right or no so we'll know it was loosely based on the life of John Lilly and it was actually a great movie Gannett Weird and like he goes down into <hes> Amazon or some jungle and I don't know if he synthesizes like he comes back and he synthesizes Iowa Star summarize experimenting with that before the tank and the light turns into a caveman rush and they kind of like gets weird but honestly a lot especially a lot of people in older generations who know about floating like Oh like that movie altered states so I think it was great just for <hes> they're getting the word out. Okay sounds like ramp to to bend watch yeah. Get ourselves educated you all right so we're coming up on fifteen minutes left. We're going to switch gears because we talked so <hes> prior or to the podcast when we were coming on air. <hes> Steven was telling us. He's got Bob Dylan and Gandalf in the background. Oh yeah yeah so what's up with the Bob Dylan. What's the GANDALF matere yes so? I'm sitting in my by office right now at the center in I I got Bob Dylan engand offing behind me <hes> my mom actually is the artist of each in. I wish you guys could see better on what a great job. She did up when when she was younger she was all about the Lord of the rings in that picture she drew when she was about fifteen. It was hanging my grandma's house forever in the Bob Dylan. She gifted to my father that she drew when she was in college because my dad's a davies in in recently having gotten into the Lord of the Rings One of my best friends I met at school is it's his. It's his all time favorite. I'm like all right. I'M GONNA check out this Lord of the rings thing in so I read the Trilogy Asia and now adorned the office with <hes> was gained off that is super cool though that I mean not only do you have that connection with actual like story itself but also you know it's your mom's artists that's basic so is is Gandalf your favorite favorite character Lord of the Rings. WE'RE GONNA get down and dirty dirty. No doubt I dig that. Tom Is your man. I don't know if it's gained. I like Gandalf and now I'm trying to think because we do this all the time too. When we were no we we do? We have literally gone to bars before in the middle of the day won't call bars and girls. We're not alcoholics but <HES> but we'll go. We'll sit and we were like during the game of thrones thing we were sitting in. Jeff and I both read the books longtime ago and we would sit in like talk about like man. You know this was was this in the booker was this the show like the bartenders that make fun of bartenders would make fun of us and stuff like yeah. Whatever now I mean I still think Bilbo is probably my favorite all-time character? I know is not Lord of the Rings Reference But Amigas forest token in general I would dig airborne's my man though airlines tight air horns of a man so and the media. It's just like what did I do. Oh back there like gained often Bob Dylan. I I mean I bet there might there might not be another office in the world that has those to memorialize their you know right behind the the head men's deaths. That's awesome yeah. I guess I never there my my spiritual guides my my mother my my business mentors. I'm trying to think of the name of this podcast podcast that I got into when I was reading it it was on it was a podcast about the Lord of the Rings in like you WanNa talk about Guys Kiki now. The Lord of the Rings Ned. They're like these like or bureau guys that will get together in like give summaries and like I was like Oh man like you think you guys are into the Lord of the rings out. No I have to I it's funny because I have to stay away from that because we <hes> I'll go down the rabbit hole some nights on things and if you actually get into the whole token lore four and look at like how how he connected to religion and house our on <hes> you know could have been <hes> Lucifer falling. I it gets wild I in my inner going back into the the generations of middle earth or when he was part out of like basically the orchestra up in the sky before midler was thing it gets the whole history is amazing to me and I get way I can read that stuff for four or five hours and then be like gin. Tom will definitely chase down the rabbit hole. There is no doubt about that yeah yes. That's my buddy I never I guess I never really got that far into a token will say that like as it's not because you know then there's ties into Christianity now. You're you're looking too far deep into it. It's kind of like the bull leg pink floyd wizard of Oz thing and roger waters is just like absolutely not you people are just it's too much. People McCartney is dad. It's like people see what they wanNA. See exactly exactly it Jeff. We're watching game of thrones. Jeff has a <hes> <hes> this guy that he was watching on Youtube and that's kind of where we were like. We were like yeah. We're really into game of thrones. We like it and then you watch like an episode of this guy on Youtube and your yeah never mind. We're Kinda like we like it. You know this guy's life. Is this like that's what he does yeah. If <hes> if for any of our listeners that are into game of thrones go check out Preston Jacobs on youtube the dudes wild he absolutely he breaks down like so many different things but there's there's a ton of like Lord of the rings stuff. That's that too and I think that people do get just too far into it but it changed a lot of people's lives and that's what I was trying to tell Scott you know that's one of the first series that <hes> it got me into actually my my favorite series which is <hes> Robert Jordan the world series and if you've never checked that out that's actually it's all man I it's really really good fourteen books fourteen or fifteen bucks but on not only that he passes away before before he gets a chance to finish it and then Jeff's favorite writer finishes the books or I don't know he's my favorite rain fancy writer <hes> No Brandon Sanderson is author that finished Robert Jordan's series and <hes> so he significant to me because when I was kind of going through my <hes> depression a couple years ago you're one of the things that they told my therapist will means like you know you need to re-engage with <hes> with the some of your old hobbies and one L. Hobbies was reading and that was the first <hes> series I read I had the first book my brother Gone It for bought it for me for Christmas like a year before basically and I <hes> and I I sorta read that it was like one of those things like I mean. Literally I remember I was sitting there reading it. One night. It was almost like a a switch flipped in my brain and I like I. I had goosebumps on my skin. Just reading this book and I was like really emotional and it was just it's like it it was it was like it was an experience. I'll never forget as long as I live. It was a really important experience in my life and so I think just the fact that I'm connected to that. You'll through that that book series like aid means a lot to me personally so it was a it was a weird one so I just kinda like <unk> looking up right now. Lord of the Rings is it's. It's the best selling book of all time other than the Bible right believe that I would leave. I don't know that for sure I used to tell you. It's funny actually say that and I mean Jordan. Contests actually may have told you this before but back when I would talk to people I would tell people is that you could you could take ah you had a an alien individual that knew nothing of our land and you gave them a copy of the Bible and you gave them a copy of Lord of the Rings and ask them which one they thought was like are like way that we live life they would pick Lord of the rings a hundred times out of one hundred the there's probably a lot of truth to that. Actually I just always thought that when I was growing up that's kind of how I felt about it. There's a cult following forward and I do believe that it's an important piece of literature on. That's what I was going to say earlier. That's what I was GONNA say. There was a guy on facebook that he he put a status. Unpopular opinion bored of the rings is not a good science fiction basically fan. I'll go fist fight him right now yeah and he had actually you can take over and talk cook. I'm GonNa pull this up actually read the comment section on it. It's a second best science fiction book of all time. What do you think the first is the Bible that's fair? Hey guys my mom listens. No I'm okay with that. I really I really am. I'm okay with that. I do believe that the Bible has good things in it that people can die and live their life or but to think that it's real is kind of kind of farfetched to me. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater ABS- absolutely absolutely though that's that's one the things I'm actually really fascinated with the idea of the you know the Jeffersonian Bible. How are you familiar with that at all? Yeah he pulled out like what was what was it real and this and that he basically Ashley took the New Testament any pull out everything that is basically supernatural but basically the the ideas that the the wisdom that is passed through the new testament is all still therein intact and it's really fascinating experience. Actually I grew up in a really religious household so <hes> it was a really interesting experience for me going through and seeing it from that perspective and <hes> experiencing Brecca's. You're absolutely right Tom there. There is a lot of good things we can take from there. It's just how how literally people apply things their lives sometimes well. It's not that it's it's it's hard one to be human being is hard and that's what people don't get enough credit for and so the the one problem with the living your life by the Bible is that there are very few if any that actually do that and and so to say that I take this book and this is how I live my life and this is this is what I base everything on. It's a tad hypocritical and I think that just <hes> using that as a a guy is completely fine like you should do with any literature but there's no book in the world. I'm taking and I'm saying this is exactly how I'm gonNA live my life every second of the day and if I don't you know basically it's a sin would not right but it so much pressure that puts on a human being but you don't hardly this to be a human in and then to be mistake free. I it's not possible and so that's my only problem with it. Is that Jesus did it here that a lot around find interesting is that most most Christians of whatever denomination have never even read the Bible so it's like how how do you how can you consider you do know that that religion is based off of the book of the so. I don't know that's no. I agree I n t but edged for me. I don't even think it just falls into Christianity you know I think that it's all <hes> just aspects of the world we live in now. Everyone has become a <hes> a guru of some sort you know with without any any of the <hes> accreditation and I'm not talking about like universal university education credit accreditation but actually putting in the time in research to know what you're talking about <hes> everyone has become you know that they take in they grasp onto something <hes> whether they know if it's the truth or not and I it's like the L. A. Shamans well and when you were mentioned early I meant to tell you is that like even in Peru they had these <hes> Spanish shamans now that they like try to doc basically a gypsy Shamans that like try to four people into like doing their their type of Iowa. That's not even real so like you have to actually even now when you go to Peru. It's become such a big thing because of Aubrey Marcus and all these guys that you know even down there. They're starting take a industry. I think this do definitely deleted this Lord of the Rings Post while he probably got a lot of backlash for that. I'M NOT GONNA lie so I have a question for you Tom. So you know you mentioned like trying trying to get into Iowa Oscar in so but you know you've got the Stone Day theory Tattoo on your shoulder like I brought it up before link. Have you not considered doing mushroom trip. I've done mushroom trip. <hes> Yeah Yeah No. I've just never done Iowa before for <hes> yeah my bad. I didn't no no no I I've never done any hard L._S._d.. And I've never done any Iowa in and I the big thing with Iowa's I just wanted to <hes> I wanted to experience not just just <hes> a psychedelic trip but the one thing that I've heard that I think that would be very cool and it would be I get what you're saying about the group setting kind of thing but the one thing that I think would be cool is to be in a psychedelic state while hearing the Shaman. Do you like a chant and dance. I've heard that that there's some kind of <hes> like subconscious soothing to to connecting you to the earth like as you hear them like seeing dance and I I want to experience that the one thing I don't one thing i. Don't want experiences <hes> throwing up shooting myself yet. Goodell's is the chanting they do yes he but again it so dependent on the print so that's what I love about floating right. Were like when you flow you know that's. It's you in the tank. You know you look at like whatever everyone's ricky master now in massage. Whatever which I think is all great but you know? There's a lot of charlatans out there so you can't just you know oh you go to the bad practitioner you right off the <hes> whatever the practices if you find some good that's great but you just gotTa make sure your your homeworks note. We we actually if you get a chance to listen to the rose. It's <hes> with a <hes> Iraqi apprentice. Actually I don't. I don't think I mean he's he's been going for a while but he actually is still under two but andy like you'll. You'll absolutely love that episode. It was a cool episode like Andy Go. He goes off gives cool and he's one of those people that when you meet them you kind of your your drawn to them like we literally let him go and it was unique to say the least absolutely I believe I just told me the other day I went in for massage the other day and told them I was I can't we talked about you on the last podcast and basically we were trying to figure out where he's from but he's from Kansas and a guy that came on the podcast knew him and I was like Dude Andy's from another planet like and he's not from Kansas Yeah. No I hear that Jeff was a huge fan of them. Though Yeah Eddie was <hes> I didn't really know what to expect with Andy but it was a really like awesome surprised just like the the <hes> the thing that was really cool about our time with Andy was like Andy deathly speaks a different language than I do but like just like the universal truths that he tells like I it's funny because he puts things that I inherently know in a way that I would never think to put them and that was just really a really cool experience having somebody from such a different perspective come in and it was just it was cool. It was a lot of fun like he's a very very interesting very wise gentleman. I would have to say yes but andy's also one of those people that like it to the normal person. If you set and talk to Andy you would know that he's not full of Shit but if you like read historian somewhere somewhere like he wrote it down you buy the crazy. This guy is absolutely insane but he's not and you can tell like even when you're sitting across from you you can tell even if for some reason he was completely full of Shit he believes in everything he's saying so it's like you trust him just on the fact that he believes what he say yeah and but he he gets into basically when he found out he was a healer that he thinks that he's lived thousands of generations and he goes into like he was having these crazy crazy dreams and then you've gotta listen to the episode but it's absolutely phenomenal and he's he's never had a psychedelic experience but he did it <hes> he had. He didn't apprenticeship where he went out and for like two days yeah I don't I don't remember for sure how long it was. They went out and they just talked plants. Yeah Yeah and that's a jeff and I both like there's no way we could do that it. We don't have that mindset. The Guy Got I got some word into the on the with the Iowa so when the the white man made its way down in or I was discovered the tribes oohing Iowa Oeste in the head figure like so diagnostic. Was You know this room in this vine in you mix it and you boil. It and there's like you know thousands of different plants in roots and vines in the jungle. How did they know to take this one that one in do this and that and so that's what the <hes> the white man was asking that indigenous people were just oh the will the plant sold us? They just like that yeah. That's definitely Andy Andy was in Andy was honestly a big per a big push for the the <hes> Peru trip to because this is what he told me he was like hey like with <hes> because we got on the topic of kids putting e._M._t.. In these vape pens and smoking G._M._t. out abate pins now you know. Have you heard about this. I think I have okay. I didn't know it was actually real. Oh Yeah J- real yeah. They're altering these vape pens and putting d._M.. T._N._N.. Smoking it yeah we know Jeff and I both that's exactly right what kids well yeah. There's some weird stuff going on the kid. Ah The kid kingdom now Jordan was telling me some stuff the other day. We won't go into that but it's some weird second. I get one of these pants yeah well. You got to alter it yourself. You gotta get a hold of G._M._T.. That's that they get the vape pens anywhere. They're like altering themselves. These kids are little genius as they watched too much dexter laboratory man now getting after it but andy was the one that told me go to Peru because you you need to do the plant in its home that will you don't that way. You don't disrespect the plant yes in you know that sounds crazy people but when he said it I was like that makes a ton of sense dude. I was like you know what that needs a ton of sense and he was a guest listening into a Dunkin Trussell podcast today on the dunk so he just came out today he was interviewing someone and she said that very same thing just said really yeah. Andy said that Andy so interesting in the thing about Andy. Is that the reason I think I trust the morning just because of how truthful I thought he was but we get done with the podcast we turn it off where Piper packing up he goes. This is all he says he goes man. You can get to talk about my woodworking house like take me Jeffer- being drafted anything the whole podcast because we were just like we're let him run with it like as he was going and I didn't even you'll listen to the episode. It's just andy talking like we say a few things here and there but like we were just like like not mouths drop off because we know what to say like he talks about like climbing up into the moon and sitting with a red and green beast. You know we're like we're like this sounds great you know and then but you meet a man he's he's. He's such a down to Earth really really nice guy and it's like holy connected with He. He's my massage therapist. <hes> WHOA yeah and I don't know I you know what's funny dead series. We do this for every podcast. Almost I you you never know when you're going to bite someone on that could be a dud you just don't you don't know there's some people in life. You just don't connect with Jeff. We almost forgot about the podcast that day jeff was like in the library all day studying. I had a test the next day the next day maybe either way we were conscious. Whatever we're going to get this over with but do it and Andy's one of those dudes when you first meet him he doesn't come across as a dud but he's a very like stoic he smiles? He's very nice but what kind of quiet why in Jeff Goes Jeff goes so Yemen tell us how you get started in. He laughs out loud and goes what's kind of a bit of a story and that was it and just went crazy and we were like lake and we just both for like an Ho- next day were like do we. We didn't expect that no it was it was one of those things too like. It was really funny for me because I walked in there like and I didn't WanNa be there like that. I did not want to be there that they had a bunch of stuff going on and like Thomson we'd forgot about it and after sitting there with Ami for an hour just like I felt at peace like listening. I got educated that day straight up so it was a good experience yeah but it didn't. I hope I pass the test guys know did you did I was a I was a little quiet. I got an education today on on some stuff. I didn't know about so that's good and Internet's Jeff. Nice big thing too is that we wanted to bring on get get like these whole niche podcasts. They're cool and all and it is cool to have those you know those things but the thing is too. Is that <hes> for us we really believed that the whole reason to have a podcast is to learn things you know and dude. I'm telling you we're on episode episode ten and the amount of Shit that we've learned it it. It's really funny because like we will start these podcasts and we'll kind of have an idea of sort of what's GonNa be go on on and like we knew we were going to talk about your flow tank a little bit but like I mean I had no idea that literally I mean you guys were talking about. All sorts of stuff that I literally kid couldn't even comment on but I was just like yet like I said you never know where it's GonNa go and that's that's kind of part of the fun. is you see you see a lot of the conversations. Go different directions. You learn a lot of different things so yeah I dig it. It's almost like you got you guys benefit and the fact that like if to choose from Kansas Commie when Dan were like hey we want to know all about floating in in what you do. Can you talk to us for two hours. I'd be like absolutely not time for that but because it's like oh your podcast it's like you get to reach out learn from people who probably normally you wouldn't otherwise otherwise no exactly and and the benefits of the business both get I mean we both get air media time. It's cool man we we really enjoyed it and we really appreciate you coming on man yes so. Would you like to go ahead in a just give your business a plug. Maybe give your give your website website. Your instagram those sorts of things you know what not even man because I know you guys are mainly pulling from Kansas. I JUST WANNA get floating in general applaud like wherever you are in this world in this country go type and float center near me. Get in a flow tank. <hes> if you're hesitant we listened to this podcast. I think we touched all the bases on on like fears in how to work through them in blockages in your will just end it with the nature loves courage flow he ends that quote was saying you'll see you'll see that discouraged by being rewarded in finding it's just it's a it's a cloud of pillows or something like that. He says you know there's so much fear involved but <hes> you can actually place of a fear love and so just this getting the love man I feel I absolutely love that. Nature loves courage. I'm totally stealing that so check out the on a youtube clip on <hes> just type in nature loves clerk courage parents but cannot they steal it from a longer talk. It's about two minutes long digital music. People don't know terrance. I pointed in that direction in just a blow her mind awesome. I'll definitely check it out. We'll we appreciate you so much for coming on with US tonight. It's been a really interesting ride for the last lower Accounta- oh come to Massachusetts is awesome. Thanks for having me come to Massachusetts and we could smoke a blunt some time yeah we'll get floaty. Man Have a good one did have a good night. Thanks these guys.