Ep. 427: From Manafort to Kilimnik to Deripaska (The Mueller Report, pt. 9)
Ladies and Gentlemen Hello Again. Welcome back to don't worry about the government. My name is Chris Dovan Bruno and on today's episode we continue our multipartite look at the mall report this episode nine in that series so for those of you who don't I care about sequence great place to start but for those of you who do care about sequence know that you're on episode nine right now so you might want to go back to episode one in this series to take it in full order. Most of these episodes worked perfectly quickly fine as standalone things however there are certain instances like names like all dare Pasqua and Constantine Kalinic which are going to come up a fair amount in this episode. I've gone into both of these dudes at various these times on other episodes and so in an effort to keep it from being terribly boring. I'm not going to recap in great depth about Oleg Deripaska inconstant Kalinic however I think it's worth looking into Oliveira Pasqua at bare the minimum Constantine columnists another one of those Russian names that you're actually going to want to have a handle on there a lot of Russian names. You're not ever going to need to have a handle on dear Pasco and Kalinic to that. You're actually going to need to know all that is to say if you don't care about knowing who dare Pasqua is how ties to the Center for the national interest and the construction of trump tower Moscow along with constant Kalinic. If you just want to get into this Paul Manafort guy in here about Donald Trump's weird campaign manager I've got you covered now before we get into that where it'd be picking up from page one hundred twenty nine today and there's a footnote somewhere along the way in the section of the report that I excerpted that I think is relevant to the story. I'm about to tell Paul. Paul Manafort made several false statements during debriefings based on that conduct the office determined that Metaphor to breaches plea agreement and could not be found to be a cooperating witness. The judge presiding MANAFORT'S D._C.. Criminal case was found by a preponderance of the evidence that manafort intentionally made multiple false statements to the F._B._i.. The office and the grand jury concerning his interactions and communications with Kalinic and concerning to other issues although the report refers at times to Manafort statements it does so only when those statements are sufficiently corroborated to be trustworthy to identify issues on which Manafort's untruthful responses may themselves be of evidentiary evalu- or to provide MANAFORT's explanation for certain events even when we were unable to determine whether or not that explanation was credible so with all that know that when you hear Paul Manafort's version of events it might not be the most reliable thing and let's pick up from the report on page one hundred twenty nine look. There's been some talk about what's going on inside the campaign. Are you running. This campaign. Now is that the fairest way to look Donald Trump is running this campaign and and I'm working directly for Donald Trump but I'm working with the whole team as well and <hes> and a lot of what's being talked about is much ado about nothing yes. There's a transition. It's a natural transition. Trump was doing very well on a model that made sense but now is the campaign has gotten to to the end stages a more traditional campaign has to take place at trump recognized that and is now reaching out not just with me but with others as well that you'll start coming now. Donald trump has hired you because he says he needs an insider to help them experiencing this but some could argue. It's spend a long time since you've been a Washington insider. You yourself have said that. Do you know these delegates. Do you know the selection process may be the same from ninety six or seventy six. You know these people because you'd be surprised who's been calling me over the last week and where they're from that was Paul Manafort speaking with Chuck Todd on April Tenth of Twenty Sixteen at that point he had fully become the campaign chair now. Let's go to the report. Paul Manafort served on the trump campaign including a period as campaign chairman from March to August twenty sixteen manafort had connections to Russia through his prior work for Russian oligarch Oleg Dare Pasqua and later through his work for a pro Russian regime in Ukraine manafort stayed in touch with these he's context during the campaign period through constant Kalinic a longtime manafort employees who previously ran manafort's office in Kiev and who the F._B._I.. Assesses to have ties to Russian intelligence so essentially the theory of the case for Paul Manafort in Deir Pasqua is that Kostyantyn Kalinic is the go between on this manafort instructed Rick Gates his deputy on the campaign and longtime employees to provide kalinic with updates on the trump campaign including internal polling data data although metaphor claims not recall that specific instruction manafort expected Kalinic to share that information with others in the Ukraine and with Dera Pasqua this is perhaps the most important line in this paragraph but over the next several several paragraphs here. It's the theory of the case that Muller's team has Kalinic runs that information back to Russia gates periodically sent such polling data to Kalinic during the campaign metaphor also twice met that with clinic in the United States during the campaign period and conveyed campaign information the second meeting took place on August second twenty sixteen in New York City Kalinic requested the meeting to deliver in-person a message from the former Ukrainian president and also also Manafort's former employer victory and a Kovic who was then living in Russia. The message was about a peace plan for Ukraine that Manafort has since acknowledged was a quote back door means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine several months later her after the presidential election Kalinic wrote an email to manafort expressing the view which manafort later said that he shared that the plant success would require US support to succeed quotes all that is required to start the process is a very minor minor wink or a slight push from Donald Trump. The email also stated that have manafort were designated as the U._S.. Representative in started the process yen a Kovic would ensure his reception in Russia at the very top level so Robert Muller's team was able to establish that Paul Manafort was being used as an informational source for the Russian government and the means for that informational operation was Manafort and his deputy Rick Gates would get information mation including internal polling data and then give it to their longtime contact constant Kalinic who'd worked for Paul Manafort for many years when he was working in the Ukraine under victory Eneco vish who is a puppet of the Russian government and it also his longtime handler Oleg Deripaska who he owed a ton of money to but why would the Russians be so excited about Paul Manafort. Is there anything from Paul Manafort's pass that would suggest he has ties to the Russian Russian government new investigative report this morning from the Associated Press claims that from two thousand six to at least two thousand nine manafort secretly worked for a Russian billionaire to advance the interests of Russian President Vladimir Putin and propose an ambitious his political strategy to undermine anti Russian opposition across former Soviet republics the report quotes from two thousand five memo that manafort allegedly wrote to business tycoon Oleg Dera Pasca who became one of the wealthiest men in Putin's Russia and with whom manafort reportedly signed a ten million dollar contract in two thousand six the A._P.. Reports Metaphor told Der Pasqua in two thousand five he was pushing policies quote at the highest levels of the U._S.. Government the White House Capitol Hill and the State Department according to the documents and according to the report manafort wrote in his memo. We're now the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success and quote the A._p.. Says Metaphor did not disclose details about foreign lobbying work to the Justice Department during the period. The contract was in place to put some numbers on this while just serving as Viktor Yanukovych is top advisor the aforementioned Viktor Yanukovych Rich Paul Manafort traveled to Moscow at least eighteen times between two thousand and four and twenty eleven yen Kovic was elected in two thousand ten for some additional context. They're manafort visited the Ukraine at least one hundred thirty eight times between two thousand afford two thousand fifteen according to mcclatchy any travel the Moscow the most between two thousand five and two thousand six but also took additional trips there through twenty eleven the point being he had this relationship established with victory Aniko Vich Bridge Oleg Deripaska in constant Kalinic that goes back nearly fifteen years Paul manafort communicated with his former lieutenant concentrate Kalinic about the quote unquote peace plans for the Ukraine on at least four occasions Asians after their first discussion of topic on August second the first was December twenty sixteen then again on January twenty seventeen so one month apart and then again February twenty seventeen and then and this is very interesting in in the spring of twenty eighteen so in December twenty sixteen. We're in the transition January twenty seventeen. Donald trump is president February twenty seventeen things are going okay and then that Mike Flynn thing starts happening in things look really pear-shaped they let things cool off a little bit and then they revisit the subject once again in spring of twenty eighteen hope springs eternal on the quote unquote peace plan the office reviewed numerous manafort email and text communications and as Donald Trump about the plan in written questions the investigation did not uncover evidence manafort passing along information about the Ukrainian quote unquote peace plans to the kid or anyone else in the campaign or the administration. That's not to say it didn't occur but it is to say they didn't find evidence. Evidence of it the office was not however able to gain access to all MANAFORT's electronic communication in some instances messages were sent using encryption applications and while metaphor deny that he spoke to members of the trump campaign or the new administration about the peace plan even though there were three different conversations about the peace plan wants Donald Trump was the president the office found that he lied to the office and the grand jury about the peace plan and his meetings with Kalinic and his unreliability on that subject was among the reasons that the district judge found that he had breached his cooperation agreement. The office could not reliably determine manafort's purpose ensuring internal polling data with Kalinic during the campaign period which is very very important. If you're going to try to establish something like espionage so not having that nail down really hurts them making a case that you can prosecute however this again goes to the prosecutable stuff and then the counterintelligence stuff. There's more than enough stuff off their information lead to say. This is a counterintelligence problem. It's clearly problematic that the campaign chairman and the deputy campaign chairman had some sort of plan to filter back information to Russia to what end though why I don't no no it's clear our government has their suspicions but we need more information and know for certain let's get into what Muller and his team were able to put together with regards to Paul Manafort and his ties to Russia in Ukraine MANAFORT's Manafort's Russian context during the campaign in transition period stem from his consulting work for Oleg Deripaska from approximately two thousand five to two thousand nine and is separate political consulting work in Ukraine from two thousand five hundred twenty fifteen including running through his company D._M._p.. International L._L._C. also known as deny Kalinic worked for manafort in Kiev during this entire period and continued to communicate with manafort through at least June of Twenty Eighteen Kalinic who speaks and writes Ukrainian and Russian Philiflated many manafort's communications with their Pasqua and Ukrainian oligarchs Oleg Der Pasco consulting work in approximately two thousand five manafort began working for Oleg Deripaska Ska a Russian oligarch who has a global empire involving aluminum empower companies who is closely aligned with Vladimir Putin a memorandum describing work that manafort performed for Dare Pasqua in two thousand five regarding the post Soviet republics reference the need to brief the Kremlin and the benefits that the work could confer on quote the Putin government gates describe the work that Paul Manafort did for Oleg Deripaska as quote political risk insurance and explain that Holy Dare Pasqua used Paul Manafort to install friendly political officials in countries where Dare Pasqua have business interests manafort's company earns tens of millions of dollars for its work for Oleg Der Pasqua and was loaned tens of millions of dollars by dare Pasqua if you recall when Paul Manafort joined the Donald Trump campaign he was millions of dollars in debt in offered to do that work pro bono certainly eyebrow raising the time even more eyebrow raising the more we learn about Paul Manafort and his relationship with Dare Pasqua in two two thousand seven dare pass invested through another entity empirically emerging-market partners also known as pericles an investment fund created by Paul Manafort and former Paul Manafort business partner Richard Davis the pericles fund was established stab was to pursue investments in eastern Europe. Dare Pasqua was the sole investor Gates had stated in interviews with the office that the venture led to a deterioration of the relationship between Paul Manafort and Deripaska in particular when that fun failed litigating between Manafort Deripaska ensued gates stated that by two thousand nine Paul Manafort's business relationship with only der passcode quote dried up according to Gates various interactions with Deripaska and his intermediaries over the past few years have involved trying to resolve the legal dispute as described below in two thousand sixteen Manafort Gates Kalinic and others engaged in efforts to revive the Deripaska relationship and resolve the litigation. You might remember a quote from Paul Paul Manafort about quote unquote getting hole with Lovie. D that seems to be where this is tied in through Oleg Deripaska. Paul Manafort was introduced to Rene Akhmetov a Ukrainian oligarch who hired Paul Manafort as a political consultant in two thousand five Akhmetov hired Manafort to engage in political work supporting the Party of regions a political party in Ukraine that was generally understood to align with Russia manafort assisted the Party of regions in regaining gaining power and it's Kid Viktor Yanukovych he won the presidency in twenty ten manafort became a close and trusted adviser to victory in a Kovic during his time as the president of Ukraine so he was an adviser to the President Unit Kovic served urban that role until two thousand fourteen when he fled to Russia amidst popular protests. How did things end for Victorian Akobo well? Let's just take a quick. Listen an amazing story credible story happening there in Holly Williams has been there this whole time reporting for us. We begin there they. After president of Ukraine is now a fugitive on the run reports say Victoria Kovic was last seen in Crimea. That part of Ukraine is home to a large Russian navy base and now the country's acting leader is calling for closer ties to Europe and a more equal partnership with Russia. They said Holly Williams is in Kiev where many want the former president to be put on trial Holly Good Morning Good Morning Charleen Nora victory on Kovic is wanted for mass murder. That's according to Ukraine's acting interior minister and it in connection with the shooting of protesters during anti-government demonstrations after Victor Yanukovych fled Kiev on the weekend protesters took over the presidential residence and opened it up to the public this morning we were given a tour of its palatial browns before he was forced from power Yanukovych enjoyed his own golf course a luxury summa house in the garden and even a private zoo immune Ivan Kunda Ranko is a church minister who took part in the demonstrations that forced Yanukovych out. What do you think about this place well? I think what I'll government might do new gaumont my dues to turn the place into a museum on corruption and dictatorship within twenty four months of that Paul manafort would be bringing his signature brand of pro Russian corruption to Donald Trump's campaign and ultimately to our presidential estate now. Let's talk about Paul Manafort's lieutenant all this Constantine Kalinic content cullum nick is a Russian national who has lived in both Russia and Ukraine and was a longtime manafort employees Kalinic had direct enclosed access to Yanukovych Oh vich and his senior entourage and he facilitated communications between Manafort and his clients including Yanukovych and multiple Ukrainian Oligarchs Kalinic maintained a relationship with therapath is deputy Viktor boy arken a Russian national who previously served in the defense attache of the Russian Embassy to the United States Metaphor told the office that he does not believe that Kalinic was working as a Russian quote unquote spy the F._B._I.. However it says is that Kalinic has ties to Russian intelligence several pieces of the offices evidence including witness interviews and emails obtained through court authorized search warrants support that assessment including constant Kalinic was born in nineteen seventy in the Soviet Union and attended the Military Very Institute of the Ministry of Defense from Nineteen eighty-seven until Nineteen ninety-two Sam Patten a business partner to concentrate Kalinic stated that Kalinic told him that he was a translator in the Russian army for seven years and that he later worked in the Russian armament armament industry? That's the arms industry selling arms and military equipment U._S. government visa records show that Kalinic obtained a visa to travel to the United States with a Russian diplomatic passport in nineteen ninety-seven therefore as a diplomat we'll matt on official business for the Russian government Kalinic worked for the International Republican Institutes Moscow office where he did translation work in general office management from nine hundred ninety eight to two thousand five while another official recalls is the incident differently one former associate of Constantine Kalinic's at I._R._S.. told the F._B._I.. The constant Kalinic was fired from his post because of his links to Russian intelligence being too strong the same individual stated that it was well Tony I._R._A.. That Kalinic had links to the Russian government Jonathan Hawker a British national who is a public relations consultant at F. T. I. Consulting which worked with deny a public relations campaign for you in a Kovic Diem I also believe leave is the organization that was mentioned a little bit earlier here that involve Paul Manafort after Hawker's work for D.. M. I ended Kalinic contacted Hawker about working for a Russian government entity on a public relations project that would promote in western and Ukrainian media Russia's position on its twenty fourteen invasion of Crimea this is they did a big media. Push on gates suspected that Kalinic was a spy of you that he shared with Manafort Hawker in Alexandra vendors won an attorney who had worked with on a report for the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs but look outside of that the government's case against Constantine Kalinic is pretty thin context during Paul Manafort's time with the trump campaign. Paul Manafort served on the trump campaign from late March to August nineteenth of twenty sixteen on March Twenty Nine Twenty sixteen the campaign announced that manafort would serve as the campaigns campaign's quote convention manager at this point they had begun to become a little bit disillusioned with Corey Lewin douse key and what was behind that was a few weeks prior at an event coralline Dusky grabbed a female reporter. Reporter from BREITBART DOT COM by the arm and it was caught on video plane is day and Ben Shapiro to his very very thin credit but this is legitimately one of the coolest things he's done the last five years so let us raise him up in this moment Ben Shapiro famously quit Breitbart Dot Com and that's when he started the daily wire and really went off on his own and he hasn't exactly risen to great heights since then but that was a legitimately cool thing that Ben Shapiro did and that also opened up the door for Paul manafort takeover in place of Corey Lewandowski who's losing influence a bit of a hot head you might say on May Nineteen Twenty Sixteen Manafort was promoted to campaign chairman and chief strategist and Rick Gates who have been assisting manafort on the campaign was appointed the deputy campaign chairman Thomas Barack and Roger Stone both recommend metaphor to candidate trump in early twenty sixteen at Manafort's request Barack suggested trump that metaphor during the campaign to manage the Republican convention stone it worked with Manafort from approximately nineteen eighty nineteen eighty until the mid nineteen nineties through various consulting and lobbying firms manafort Donald trump in nineteen eighty to two thousand nine hundred eighty two when trump hired the black manafort stone as in Roger Stone and Kelly lobbying firm over the years manafort saw trump at political and social events in New York City and it stones wedding and trump requested V._i._p.. Status at the one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and nineteen ninety-six Republican conventions work by Paul Manafort according to regain its in March twenty sixteen metaphor travel that trump's mar a lago estate in Florida meet with trump trump hired him at that time manafort agreed to work on the campaign without pay again. He's knee deep in debt to deer pass agrees to work on the campaign for Free Manafort had no meaningful income at this point in time but resuscitating his domestic political campaign career could be financially beneficial in the future gates reported that Manafort intended if trump won the presidency to remain outside of the administration in monetize relationship with the administration administration as in corruption graft access sales just like Michael Cohen was doing immediately upon joining the campaign manafort directed Rick Gates to prepare for his review separate memoranda addressed only der Dear Pasqua medoff in three Ukrainian oligarchs who were senior opposition bloc officials the memoranda described Manafort's appointment to the trump campaign in indicated his willingness to consult on Ukrainian politics in the future remember his last foray in Ukrainian politics. Just eighteen months prior ended in the presidential palace being stormed and yet people are still interested in will Paul Manafort has to say on March Thirtieth 2016 Gates emailed the memoranda and a press release announcing MANAFORT's appointment to Kalinic for translation and dissemination manafort later followed up with Kalinic to ensure his messages have been delivered emailing on April Eleventh Two thousand sixteen to ask whether Kalinic had shown quote our friends and quote the media coverage of his new role Kalinic replied quote absolutely every article and quote manafort further. Ask is quote. How do we use to get whole has lovie D. as in der Pasqua operation scene and quote Kalinic Rope back the same day open quotes? Yes I have been sending everything devictor as in Victor Oh boy Arken Derek Pascoe deputy who has been forty two covered directly to Lovie D and quote before we go onto the next paragraph. I just want to remind everyone that don't worry about the government is a one hundred percent listener supported podcast podcast that means I turn to you and ask for a bucker show. A buck. Show is all I'm asking there are two ways you can support this show. You can either go to pay pal dot me slash pay D._W._A.. T G if you're into lump sums into pay pal. I don't really want to sign up for Patriots because you're not gonNA use the R._S._S. feed. I kind of understand that you can go to pay pal. Dot Me Slash Pay D._W._A.. T G that is my pay pal account that is how you support the show all of that goes into the show account all that goes goes into paying for server space new microphones new equipment. There's a lot of money to get don't worry about the government even into the black that goes a long way the other way you can support the show what's easier for a lot of people in does have certain perks that I'm about to get it into is patriots dot Com Slash D._W._a.. T G on the Patriot side you get the entirety of the all in the family podcast in addition to premium episodes of don't worry about the government. If you're a pay pal subscriber and you want premium episodes. Just let me know get at me on twitter account. That's probably the easiest way at Chris November no or you can email me for those of you who know my email Chris November. No at gmail.com feel free to hit me up. If you want a premium episode there's there's one in particular that made me stop the show and do the plug here. It's the one involving black caviar for the last year and a half two years on the premium side. I've done a lot of episodes that have focused on the Russia investigation to try to get us all up to speed on the Russian story. It's always like slices the L. fit and you're never really seen the full picture but it is useful because constant kalinic in Oliveira Pasqua are not these completely foreign entities to me because I put together those episodes episodes and I'm hoping for you those who chose to be patriots members here over the last couple of years. They're not totally foreign concepts to you either in no small part because of those Patriot episodes so for the people who've been supporting the show I just WanNa thank you one more time because it's your investment in the show that is allowed me to devote the time into this show to be this in-depth on the Mola report to be sitting on episode nine of a multipartite mole reports series that has depth and context and nuance beyond just reading the report in and for those of you who have not supported the show yet a buck show is all masking gods so if you could if you would let's make it a don't worry about the Government Day Patriotic Dot Com Slash D._W._i.. C._G.. Pay Pal dot me slash pay D._W._A.. T._G._I.. Let's get back into it. Rick Gates reported the Paul Manafort said that being hired on the campaign would be quote good for business and increase the likelihood. The Paul Manafort would be paid the approximately only two million dollars that he was owed for previous political consulting work in Ukraine as you might recall things got a little dicey in the Ukraine towards the end there dates also explained to the special counsel's office the Paul Manafort thought that his role in the campaign could help quote quote unquote confirm that der Pasqua had dropped the parakeets lawsuit now remember that lawsuit involve the millions that Manafort Odera Pasqua so this is like a debt forgiveness plan a little bit of quid pro quo going on here and that gates believed that Manafort sent polling data to Deripaska as discussed further below so dear Pasqua would not move forward with this lawsuit against Paul Manafort Gates further stated the Sheriff Has Gwanda Visa to the United States that dare Pasqua could believe that having having Manafort in a position inside the campaign or administration might be helpful the Deripaska and that Manafort's relationship with trump could help their pasqua in other ways as well gate stated however that manafort never told them anything specific about what if anything manafort might be offering Deripaska so rick gates told the special counsel's office look there any number of ways that he relationship between Paul Manafort in only Deripaska could be beneficial to only dare Pasqua. It's not not just one thing however for the purposes of prosecution the special counsel's office needs to not know that this is extremely likely but actually needs to know this occurred and needs to have special detailed contours to what that arrangement is is not just the cloud of arrangement and we've seen actually during the trump administration several police maneuvers taken by the administration that appear to be beneficial to only der Pasqua including these sanctions centered around Oleg Their Pasqua so bare your minimum. I think it's fair to say that Paul Manafort's relationship with only der Pasqua brought to the attention of the trump campaign and now the administration the importance of a healthy relationship with this <unk> striving businessman Oleg Der Pasqua and for some reason or another the administration has been acutely concerned about the sanctions involving Oliviera Pasqua. Perhaps that was the deal but gates doesn't know for sure Rick Gates also reported reported that Paul Manafort instructed him in April of Twenty sixteen. If you remember that clip at the beginning of this episode that's from April of Twenty Sixteen or early May of twenty sixteen to send Kalinic some campaign internal polling data and other updates so kalinic intern could share it with Ukrainian oligarchs gates understood that the information would be shared with Oleg Deripaska so Rick Gates when he was doing this knew that he was giving information to the Russian government through intermediaries. There's a big over d'action here and I suspect it has something to do with what I just said but we don't know for sure Gates reported to the office that he did not know why Paul manafort wanted him to send pulling information but regains thought it was a way to showcase manafort's work and manafort wanted to open doors to jobs after the trump campaign ended gates said that Manafort's instructions included sending internal pulling data prepared for the trump campaign but pollster Tony Fabrizio for Brazil would work metaphor for years and was brought into the campaign by Manafort Gates stated that in accordance with Manafort's instructions he periodically sent Kalinic polling data via whatsapp gates then deleted the communications on a daily basis gates. I told the office that after Manafort let the campaign in mid-august Gates sent Kalinic polling data less frequently and the data that was sent was more publicly available and less internal data gates his account about polling data is consistent with whatever is behind this wall redacted text. There are multiple emails that Kalinic sent to U._S.. Associates impress context between late July and Mid August the twenty sixteen those emails reference quote internal polling and describe grabbed the status of the trump campaign in Manafort's role in it and assess trump's prospects for victory. Paul manafort did not acknowledge instructing Rick Gates to send Constantine Kalinic internal data comma big old redaction so does that a however is that a but it could be any number of things the office also obtained contemporaries emails that shed light on the purpose of the communication with their Pasqua and are consistent with Gates's account so whatever narrative Paul Manafort put forward it didn't wash with a special counsel's office because they found evidence to the contrary that support Rick Gates his version of events for example in response to July seventh twenty sixteen email from a Ukrainian in reporter about Manafort's failed Deripaska backed investment manafort asked Constantine Kalinic whether there have been any movement on this issue with our friend Gates also stated that quote our friend Luckily referred to only der Pasqua and that Metaphor told the office that the quote issue and quote our biggest interest as stated below was a solution to the Deira Pasqua pericles issue as in that monstrous debt that Paul Manafort had Kalinic replied. I am in carefully optimistic on the question of our biggest interest our friend. That's boy Arken said that there is significantly more attention to the campaign in his bosses mind. That's dare Pasqua and he will most likely be looking for ways to reach reach out to you very soon. Understanding all the time sensitivity I am more than sure that it will be resolved and we will get back to the original relationship with Dera Pasca eight minutes later manafort replied that Kalinic should tell all dare Pasqua that if he needs private briefings we can accommodate Manafort has alleged to the office that he was willing to brief der Pasco only on public campaign matters and gave an example why trump's elected mike pence as the vice presidential running mate manafort afford said he would never give their Pasco briefing manafort noted that if trump won dare Pasco would want to use manafort to advance whatever interest Deripaska had in the United States and elsewhere manafort admitted that manafort admitted that what are we even talking about here. Paul Manafort's to campaign period meetings with constant Kalinic in the United States manafort twice met met with Kalinic in person during the campaign period once in May and again in August twenty sixteen the first meeting took place on May Seventh Twenty Sixteen in New York City in the days leading to the meeting Kalinic have been working together information about the political situation in Ukraine that included information gleaned from a trip that for party of regions official Yury Boiko head recently taken a Moscow a trip that likely included meetings between Boyko and high ranking Russian officials Kalinic Vent Travel The Washington D._C.. On or about may fifth of Twenty Sixteen Wall in Washington Kalinic had prearranged meetings with State Department employees late on the evening of May six gates arranged range for clinic to take a three A._M.. Trained meet MANAFORT NEW YORK FOR BREAKFAST A may seventh according to Manafort during the meeting he and Kalinic talked about the events in Ukraine and Manafort briefed Kalinic on the trump campaign expecting kalinic to pass that information mation back to individuals in the Ukraine and elsewhere manafort stated that the opposition blocked members recognized Manafort's position on the campaign wasn't opportunity but Kalinic did not ask for anything. Okay Kalinic spoke about a plan of boy goes to boost election participation in eastern zone of Ukraine which was the base of opposition to boost election participation in the eastern Kalinic spoke about a plan of boy goes to boost election participation in the eastern zone of Ukraine which was the base of the opposition bloc Kalinic return to Washington D._C.. Right after the meeting with Manafort Manafort met with Kalinic a second time at the Grand Havana Club in New York City on the evening of August seventh twenty-six Manafort met with clinic a second time at the Grand Havana Club in New York City on the evening of August Second Twenty sixteen the events leading to the meeting are are as follows on July Twenty Eighth Twenty Sixteen Kalinic flew from Kiev to Moscow the next day Kalinic wrote to Manafort requesting that they meet using coded language about a conversation that he had that day in email with the subject line black caviar which might sound familiar to some of you patriots subscribers Kalinic wrote. I met today with the Guy who gave you your biggest black caviar jar several years ago. We spent about five hours talking about his story story and I have several important messages from him to you. He asked me to go into brief you on our conversation. I said I have to run it by you. First but in principle I am prepared to do it. It has to be about the future of his his country and it is quite interesting. It has to do with the future of his country and it is quite interesting Manafort's identification of Yanukovych as quote the Guy Who gave you your biggest black caviar jar is is consistent with being in Moscow where Yanukovych resided when Kalinic wrote quote I met today with the Guy and a December twenty sixteen email in which Kalinic referred to Yanukovych as B._G.. Oh Gee there's a redaction here but apparently there's some supplemental evidence that backs that up manafort replied to Kalinic's July twenty ninth email with Tuesday August second is best Tuesday or Wednesday in New York City three days later on July Thirty First Twenty Sixteen Kalinic flew back to Kiev from Moscow and on that same day he wrote to Manafort that he needed quote about two hours and quote for their meeting quote because it is a long caviar story to tell and quote clinic wrote that he would arrive at J._F._k.. On August second at seven thirty PM and he and Manafort agreed to a late dinner that night documentary evidence including flight phone and hotel records in the timing of text messages exchanged confirms the dinner took place as planned on August second as to the contents of the meeting itself the accounts of Manafort and Gates who arrived late at the dinner different certain respects but their versions of events when assessed alongside available documentary evidence and what Kalinic told his business associates Sam Patten they indicate that at least three principal topics were discussed first manafort and Kalinic discussed a plan to resolve resolve the ongoing political problems in Ukraine by creating an autonomous republic in its more industrialized region of done boss and then having yet a Kovic the deposed Ukrainian president who was ousted in twenty fourteen elected to head that republic that plan manafort later acknowledged constituted quote a back door means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine manafort initially said that if he had not cut off the discussion Kalinic would've asked Manafort in the August second meeting to convince trump. I'm to come out in favor of the peace plan and Yanukovych would have expected Manafort to use his connections in Europe and Ukraine to support the plan manafort also initially told the office that he had said to Kalinic that the plan was crazy that the discussion ended and they did not recall Kalinic asking metaphor to reconsider the plan after the August second meeting Manafort said and then there's a big old redaction here that he reacted negatively to the Kovic sending years later a quote urgent request request when Yanukovych needed him would confronted with an email written by Kalinic on R- about December eight twenty sixteen however metaphor diagnosed that Kalinic raise the peace plan again in that email metaphor ultimately acknowledged that Kalinic Olympic also raise the peace plan in January in February of twenty seventeen in his meetings with manafort so let's go over what happened in that redaction there. It's a little bit confusing and I wanted to try to read it in a way that maintained the structural integrity of that paragraph F- but there's a jump there so what happens is Paul manafort tells US special counsel's office that they discussed this back door plan and Paul Manafort was like no way Jose. I'm not interested in that however ever. There's a whole bunch of evidence to the contrary that this discussion about this quote unquote peace plan as in letting Russia annexed this part of the Ukraine giving it over to Russia and abandoning what would have been a NATO ally ally in Ukraine if they have been allowed to join NATO that move was being discussed well after Donald Trump was elected president Paul manafort one to make it seem like it stopped during the campaign it didn't which means there was some sort of apparatus being at least considered by Paul Manafort and Gates as to how they were going to get the trump administration not the trump campaign at this point the administration to be cool with with this back door peace plan for the Ukraine Second Manafort briefed Kostyantyn Kalinic on the state of the trump campaign in Manafort's plan to win the election that briefing encompassed the campaigns messaging and its. Internal polling data according to Rick Gates it also included discussion of quote unquote battleground states which manafort identified as Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania and Minnesota Manafort did not refer explicitly to quote unquote battleground states in his telling of the August second discussion and then there's another redaction will be interesting to know what's behind that I can't even really hazard to guess third according to Gates and what Kalymnos told Patton Manafort in Kalinic disgust two sets of financial disputes related demand for its previous work in the region those consisted of the unresolved deripaska lawsuit. That's the big debt that Manafort your own dear Pasqua in the funds that the opposition blocked that's in the Ukraine Oda Paul Manafort for his political consulting work and how manafort might be able to obtain that payment after the meeting gates a metaphor for both stated that they left separately from Kalinic because they knew that the media was tracking manafort and they wanted to avoid the media reporting his connections to concentrate Kalinic post resignation activities Paul Manafort resigned resigned from the trump campaign in the middle of August twenty sixteen approximately two weeks after his second meeting with content Kalinic amidst negative media reporting about his political consulting work for the Pro Russian party of the regions in Ukraine. Basically the media was starting to catch up to Paul Manafort and the Paul Manafort story and the trump campaign wanted to make sure that the media stop focusing on the Paul Manafort story and need the media to go away what would muller and his team are telling us right here though is that if the media had stayed a little bit more dogging on this they might have been able to connect the dots on Paul Manafort victory in a Kovic and all of this Russia's stuff and really kept the pressure on it instead instead there were so many dramas of the week and dramas of the hour and dramas of the day that this fell through the cracks despite his resignation Paul manafort continued to offer advice to various campaign officials through the November Election Manafort Manafort toll gates who are still at the campaign that he's still spoke with Kushner Bannon and kid trump and some of those post resignation contacts documented in email for example on October Twenty First Twenty Sixteen manafort's and Kushner an email and attached a strategy memorandum proposing that the campaign make the case against Clinton quote as the failed and corrupt champion of the establishment and that quote wiki leaks provides the trump campaign the ability to make the case in a very credible away by using the words of Clinton. It's campaign officials and DNC members <hes> it's really interesting the MANAFORT's very tuned into wikileaks and I get that it's useful to the trump campaign but metaphor afford saying it in a way that makes me think that maybe Paul had more of a sense of what was going on with wikileaks in initially lead on later in a November fifth 2016 email to Kushner entitled securing the Victory Manafort stated that he was is quote really feeling good about our prospects on Tuesday and focusing on preserving the victory and that he was concerned that the Clinton campaign would respond to a loss by quote moving immediately to discredit the trump victory in claim voter fraud and cyber fraud including the claim that the Russians have hacked into the voting machines and tampered with the results now. Let's stop here because I think it's easy to think that this was a really good and sagacious prediction here but Paul Manafort had no way of knowing that Donald Trump was going to massively lose the popular vote but narrowly Eke out in Electoral College victory was seventy eight thousand votes distributed across three states. That's not a thing Paul Manafort of known this other thing about Russians hacking the voting machines. It's a very very specific thing that insofar as there were allegations about election fraud and stealing the vote they were all coming from Kid Donald Trump. They weren't coming from the Clinton campaign. No one was saying cyberfraud. Noah saying voter fraud not like that the Republicans are the ones who are traditionally worried about voter fraud. That's not really that big of a problem here in the United States however this idea that the voting machines might have been hacked into it's interesting because the Russians actually were trying to hack into voting machines. We don't know if they were trying to Tampa with the results but we do know that they were trying to make aching effort to get into election systems. Donald trump was elected the president of the United States of America on November eight twenty sixteen by winning the Electoral College Manafort told the office that in the wake of the trump victory he who's not interested in an administration job manafort instead preferred to stay on the outside and monetize his campaign position to generate business given his familiarity and relationship with trump in the incoming administration manafort appeared to follow that plan as he traveled to Middle East Cuba South Korea Japan and China and was paid to explain what a trump presidency would entail manafort's activities in early twenty seventeen included meetings related to Ukraine and Russia the first meeting which took place in Madrid Spain January twenty seventeen was with Georgie Oga Nov Oga Nov had previously worked at the Russian Embassy in the United States and was a senior executive at a deer Pasqua Company and was believed lead to report directly to dare Pasqua manafort initially denied attending the meeting when he later acknowledged it he claimed that the meeting had been arranged by his lawyers and concerned only the paraphrase lawsuit other evidence however provides reason reason to doubt manafort statement that the sole topic of the meeting was the Perez lawsuit allergists say if someone's going to lie about something once they're probably going to try to office gate the truth twice in particular text messages messages to Manafort from a number associated with Kalinic suggests that Kalinic and Boy Arken not manafort's council had arranged the meeting between Manafort in Ogun off Kalinic's message stated that the beating was supposed to be quote not about about money or pericles and quote but instead quote about recreating the old friendship and quote between Manafort Endear Pasqua quote and talking about global politics and quote which seems like code words Manafort also replied by Tex- that he quote needs this finish before January twentieth which appears to be a reference resolving parakeets before the inauguration of Donald Trump as president of the United States of America on January fifteenth twenty seventeen three days after his return from Madrid manafort emails K._T.. McFarland who was at that time designated to be the deputy national security adviser and was formerly appointed to that position on January twentieth two thousand seventeen manafort's January fifteenth email to McFarland stated quote. I have some important information I want to share that I picked up on my travels over the last month. Manafort told the office office that the email referred to an issue regarding Cuba Not Ukraine or Russia Amanda for traveled to Cuba in the past month either way McFarland who was advised by Flynn not to respond to the manafort inquiry appears not who have responded to Manafort Manafort told the office that around the same time as the presidential inauguration in January he met with Kalinic and a Ukrainian oligarch at the Westin Hotel in Alexandria Virginia during this meeting Kalinic again discussed the Kovic peace plan that have been broached at the August second meeting and in a detailed December eight twenty sixteen message founded Kalinic's D._M._p.. Email account in that December eighth email which Manafort manafort acknowledged having read Kalinic wrote quote all that is required to start the process is a very minor wink or a slight push from D._t.. An apparent reference to the president elect Donald trump quote Andy decision to authorize authorized you to be a special representative and manage this process and quote Kalinic assured Manafort that with that authority he quote could start the process and within ten days visit Russia Yen Kovic guaranteeing eighteen. You're reception at the very top level and that quote D._T.. Could have peace in Ukraine. Basically within a few months after the inauguration Paul Manafort sought to qualify his engagement to on and support support for the plan and I would tell you how he went about doing that but that is the subject of some of the largest reductions on this entire episode it goes on for three or four paragraphs on February twenty six twenty seventeen Paul Manafort Fort Mott Constantine Kalinic in Madrid. We're concentrating Kalinic had flown in from Moscow in his first two interviews with the office Paul Manafort denied meeting with Constantine Kalinic on his Madrid trip and then after being confronted with the documentary evidence that clinic was in Madrid also Paul hint if the F. B. I. S. about a two or three times odds are they known that trying to catch you in a lie puhl finally spilled the beans and said that he did in fact beat him in Madrid Manafort said that Kalinic it updated him on a criminal investigation into a so-called open quote black ledger Ku band name payments to Manafort that was being conducted by the Ukraines National Anti Corruption Bureau. We have another redacted paragraph here. manafort remained in contact with Kalinic throughout 2017 and into the spring of twenty eighteen those contacts included matters pertaining to the criminal charges brought by the office and the Ukraine quote unquote peace. Plan in early two thousand eighteen manafort retained his longtime polling firm to craft a draft poll in Ukraine sent the pollsters a three page primer on the plan sent by Kalinic and worked with Kalinic to formulate the polling questions the the primers sent to the pollsters specifically called for the United States and president trump to support the autonomous republic of Dundas with Yanukovych as prime minister and a series of questions in the draft pool asked for opinions on Yanukovich's role in resolving solving the conflict in Dundas. The poll was not solely about dumb bus it also saw participants views on leaders apart from me at a Kovic as they pertain to the tweet nineteen Ukraine presidential election. The office has not uncovered evidence is that manafort brought the Ukraine peace plan to the attention of the trump campaign or to the trump administration did. She softened the G._O._P.. Platform on Ukraine <hes> I wasn't involved in that honestly. I was not not involved in that. I'd like to <hes> I'd have to take a look at it but I was not involved. You know what they did. They softened it. I heard but I was not involved. They took away the part of the platform calling for provision of lethal weapons to Ukraine to defend themselves. Why is that a good idea? It's <hes> you know I have my own ideas. He's not going into Ukraine. Okay just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine. You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it any as well. He's there in a certain way but I'm not there you have Obama there and frankly that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this in the meantime he's going. He takes Crimea. He's sort of I mean. She said you might recognize that. I'm take a look at it but you know the people of Crimea from what I've heard would rather be with Russia than where they were and you have to look at that also now that was under just so you understand that was done under Obama's administration and as far as Ukraine is concerned concerned. It's a mess and that's under the Obama's administration with his strong ties to NATO so with all of these strong ties to NATO Ukraine is a mess Crimea has been taken. Don't blame Donald Trump for that. You will do better her and yet we'll have a better relationship with Russia and having a good relationship maybe and having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing not a bad thing that was from an episode of this week with George Stephanopoulos that ran at the end end of July twenty sixteen about three days before Paul manafort would meet with Kostyantyn Kalinic for the second time on August third a day after manafort and Kalinic met politico had an article called trump changed views. He's on Ukraine after hiring manafort. Let me read a little bit of this copy for you. Donald trump sounded like a supporter of Ukraine's territorial integrity last September when he spoke by video feed to a gathering of political and business elites in Kiev quote. Our president is not strung and he's not doing what he should be doing for the Ukraine trump told the group of pro Western businessmen diplomats and politicians quote at think you get support that you need that view is in line with other statements trump is made calling for firmer Western response to Russian President Vladimir Putin's March twenty fourteenth annexation of Crimea and support for a pro Russian separatist movement in the countries countries east according to a review of trump's public comments about Ukraine since twenty fourteen in recent days. However trump has struck a far milder tone? He now says he might recognize Crimea as a Russian territory and lift punitive putative U._S. sanctions against Russia the alternative he warned on Monday could be world war three while the reason for his shift is not clear trump's more conciliatory words which contradict his own party's official platform fall the recent association with several people sympathetic to Russian influence in Ukraine they include his campaign manager Paul Manafort who has worked for the Ukraine's deposed pro Russian president his foreign policy advisor Carter Page and the former secretary of state in National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger in the days after Putin annexed Crimea in mid March twenty fourteen for instance trump expressed strong opposition to the move appearing on N._B._C.'s Today they show on March thirteenth. He said that the land grab which Obama in top European leaders denounced as a gross violation of international law quote should never have happened. We should definitely be strung. We should definitely do sanctions and speaking to the conservative political action conference a few days later trump said that Putin had seized quote the heart instill of Ukraine that means the rest of Ukraine will fall he added but in recent weeks trump is sounded far far more forgiving of Putin's aggression which is worsened with the entrenchment of pro Russian separatist fighters in the countries east where nearly ten thousand people have been killed in the fighting trump now says that he's quote going to take a look at recognizing Crimea as a Russian Russian territory and that he would consider lifting those same sanctions. All of this is to say I think there is evidence to suggest the Donald Trump knew about the quote unquote peace plan in this idea that Russia was interested interested in capturing the eastern part of Ukraine. I think he got hip to it and that's why he changed his position on Ukraine so suddenly I think that's in line with the rest of the story here. The story is fairly simple. Paul Manafort was was knee-deep in debt and he came out of the Yanukovych thing still being owed money by the Party of the regions two million dollars to be precise and he also had this longstanding dead to Holy Dare Pasqua coralline does he started screwing screwing up things while on the campaign and this opened up the opportunity to bring Paul manafort onto the campaign and expand his role even beyond what was initially conceived so initially he was just going to be the campaign chairman to wrangle goal things during the convention but he also had this plan during the convention to go in and change the Republican Party's platform on the Ukraine. It's something that Paul Manafort was acutely aunt intensely interested in doing in such a way that you couldn't possibly argue that it was accidental or that. Maybe they just seen something on the news this week. It was wild hair that was very much. Donald Trump's as actually if you go back to the reporting pouring Donald Trump's position on Ukraine up until Paul manafort links up with his campaign is essentially his default position all things related to Obama Obama's handling it badly hide handle it better but also stronger longer and stronger is definitely better so obama was being week. Trump will be strong. He was in favor of sanctions. I think that's the biggest telltale sign here right once. Paul Manafort becomes Donald Trump's campaign chairman. He starts getting Donald Trump to modulate on Ukraine. Meanwhile Paul Manafort goes to work inside of the Republican National Convention and changes the Party's platform on Ukraine so then we have that very weird interview with George Stephanopoulos on this week with George Stephanopoulos at the end of July the beginning of August twenty sixteen and then two days later Paul Manafort goes and meets with Constantine Kalinic. This was a plan eight appears at some point one way or another probably as a hapless dupe. Don't trump was looped into this plan. He certainly was aware that he needed to change his opinion on Ukraine. Did he know why did he have a corrupt intention on doing so that I think remains a mystery and might be a water's edge that Moore and his team got to his well. We're like well if we can't say that then what can really say about that I think we can still I'll say a few things here and I wanted to make sure we wrapped up today's episode with an observation of those facts. That's going to do it for this episode of don't worry about the government's continuing coverage of the mole report. If you're enjoying this well there are eight other episodes you can go back and listen to or in the case of those who've already listened to them. Re listen to them. And of course you can find those on don't worry dot TV. 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I know at Christova Marino don't worry dot TV is our homepage or on. I tunes on Stitcher that you're my other. Show is called the own the family podcast. I think that's it. I'm GonNa take a breath now. Thank you for listening to the show until the next one AH.