BoJack Horseman and Celebrity Mental Health Advocacy
You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Welcome to not crazy. I'm here with my co host. Jackie who lives lose with major depression. And you know my co-host Gabe who lives with bipolar disorder. And today we are going to talk about Bowe Jack Horsemen the show is is ending the show on net flicks. Most people have heard of it but it did something exciting longtime fans of the show. Know that there's this thing that I dislike and they sort of did it on Bo Jack which validated me in ways that I cannot explain it. It just made me so happy Jackie so much so that you sent me a text that said have you seen this and I was like no and then you said I feel so hurt invalidated dated. We must talk about this and I said okay fine and you agreed to watch three episodes of a show that you'd never watched before. What did you think of it did? Did you like the show I hated it. Hit is a strong word. I literally hated it. Okay but Adam liked it adamant. I watched it together and atom cursed Gabe a few times. He's like why the fuck did tell us to watch this. Show the general consensus over here. It's pretty awful. It is a very popular show and people are sad that it has being cancelled. After hearing Jackie's scathingly mean review. I kind of wish Bo Jack was because he'd be like not crazy podcast. I hated hated it. It was awful and then he drink and pass out drunk. which if you're a fan of the show was hilarious but just a meaningless aside that makes game very very happy? You asked me to watch three episodes so I fell asleep through two of them but I will say that the moment that I saw what you were talking about I recognized it and I was like okay I see you so. Do you want to tell everybody what happened tobacco just a little bit Beau Jack Horsemen. It's a cartoon. And all of the characters are are very one dimensional Bo Jack. He used to be famous. He's narcissistic he's an alcoholic and he has depression and that's just who he is the character that we're GONNA be talking about for the remainder of the show. Is a character called Mr peanut butter. Mr Peanut butter is also famous. He's also an actor. He's a yellow golden retriever. And he's very happy he's he's basically my wife as a cartoon character. He's just eternal sunshine. He's Pollyanna no matter. What happens in the world? He can find the good in in it. and that's his one dimensional character this characters so happy positive that in the show. They're trying to find ways to keep him in the public eye or something. I don't know I fell asleep. But his assistant. Maybe I don't know somebody was like we'll make these memes with your face on them and the memes were sad dog means and he he was like I'm not a sad dog. I don't like these. I can't relate to them because I'm not sad like his whole point on the show is to be like a puppy dog. Yeah here's he's an extraordinarily happy dog and he's famous. That's all you need to know. They do find a picture just a single picture of him looking sad and they make their memes. They're called the sad dog names and social media being what it is. It takes off like gangbusters. The sad dog meam is everywhere. People love it and that gives him a small amount. Just a tiny amount of notoriety as a sad dog and sadness is a quick jump jump over to depression. Mr Peanut butter has depression so the powers that be decide that they wanna make him in the face of depression and they you pay him to go on tour and to make. PSA's and to do all of this stuff to advance the cause of mental health advocacy advocacy of getting checked for depression for this guy who doesn't have it and Gabe is so furious that they've given a cartoon dog this this stance where he is the face of depression. which is ridiculous? This is where I was like. Okay I see what keeps talking about where somebody who who probably is not clinically depressed. No there's no probably he doesn't. He does not have it in like real life like transferring to real life life not cartoon world now the face of mental illness slash depression in huge mental illness advocacy spaces celebrities who may or may not live with an actual mental illness. Who are now speaking on behalf of us for us to the whole world for lots and lots of money so I see your point but now that's it I just I see your point in the show? Mr Peanut butter actually has a conversation where he says look. I don't have depression. And and the person who is trying to encourage him to take this cash grab says well that's one of the hallmarks of depression not thinking that you have depression Russian so I should point out that in the show he sort of tricked into being the face of depression but I wanna be clear. He doesn't have depression he's not depressed. He's never been mentally ill. None of these things are true but he becomes the face of of depression and people start listening to him on what he thinks they should do. And the world should do to be better and and suddenly he becomes the expert. This dog. Who has it no mental illness? Who's never suffered from depression? Who's never researched depression? Who's WHO's not a doctor a therapist? He's never even been a mental health advocate. All of the sudden becomes who people are listening to to get their the information and to make their mental health decisions. I see this happening in the real world all the time and it drives me crazy in fairness for two reasons one one because I want all that money not going to lie I want the money should be me but too because this is dangerous. We're following people who don't understand our lives who don't understand what they're doing or talking about and we're listening to them as if their opinions or information is accurate and valid Loyd. I believe that hurts people. Okay questions first question. Let's say these spokespeople don't live with mental illness. But what if they just really. We support the 'cause they have loved one with mental illness. Then say that we see this in the case of bring change to mind and Glenn Close Glenn Close supports her sister sister and her nephew who live with severe and persistent mental illness. Glenn Close says that she founded an organization. She gives a stage to people like her sister who lives with bipolar disorder and her nephew who lives with schizo affective disorder and help them get their message out there. I think that that is a very worry positive. Use of celebrity. And Yeah Oh Fanta. Glenn Close Me To who isn't right but next question even if they are not somebody who who lives with but they are somebody with a lot of clout there well known. They are super famous and they're bringing attention to the cause and or organization maybe fundraising a lot of money. Is it really so bad. So yes and no rate in your example. You're like to have a lot of cloud. They're bringing a lot of attention and they're raising a lot of money is is that bad. No if you consider those four things that no of course now where would that be bad. But that's generally not what's happening because if that was happening you probably wouldn't. I didn't know they were behind it. The number of people that don't realize that Glenn close started bring change to mind staggering because she's not front and center the Organization is I'm talking about the people that are charging twenty five thousand dollars for speeches who are traveling the circuit who are doing. PSA's but I almost questioned. Who wrote these things things? They don't even look accurate. Are you feeling sad. You might have depression. Why are we acquainting sadness and depression? This is like saying are. Are you feeling wet. You might be drowning. There's a world of difference between having water on your skin and drowning but this is the kind of misinformation that gets perpetuated. Petro waited by. I'm GONNA say well meaning people but just because you're a celebrity. That makes you a good celebrity. It doesn't make you a good spokesperson for an illness. Yes and I don't think people have an understanding of this because celebrities aren't used to being told no and they can afford to run their own campaigns so in this scenario what should they be doing right. Mental Health Organization needs a spokesperson. What should they be doing in your example if they wanNA lend their name celebrity be and money to a mental health organization? I think that is very appropriate. Because what they would say is hi. My name is Joe Celebrity and I want you to support report Mental Health United States of America nonprofit with your time and energy. They have the correct information. They have vetted it and and I am using my celebrity to raise attention for it. And also. Here's a whole bunch of money so they can offer their programs information etc for free. I think that's that's extraordinarily appropriate. But that's not what a lot of these folks are doing. They're showing up on late night. TV saying I have depression and anxiety Eddie and it was so awful for me. The stigma was great. And you should hire me to tell you my story. How is paying you? Twenty five thousand dollars to tell me what. It's like to be a multimillionaire with an anxiety. Zayed's helping people with schizophrenia. And I'm being serious. If you can tell me how that is helping. I will back off immediately. I see your point here and I could probably probably argue it either way right. I can say yes clearly. Celebrities with all of their money in assistance in whatever their stories are not as relatable able as. Let's say you're I however. Does it make their stories any less true or meaningful. This is where life is hard rates because there's a a real human element here. I don't WanNa tell Joe Celebrity that his story isn't relevant because he is famous and rich but I do want Joe Celebrity to understand that his story is not typical. And we get into this. I'm going to call it a problem with all forms of advocacy. It's like white privilege or male privilege. You know women are like look. You're getting extra because you're a man and the man says well that's not fair. I worked hard. Nobody's saying that you didn't work hard. We're just saying that you didn't have to overcome your gender if you are wealthy and you have access to money and resources your your situation is not the same as the average Joe non celebrity who is being diagnosed with these things and I would just like to see one of these people stand end up and say you know I'm a multimillionaire. I'm a millionaire. I have been world famous for a decade and I just now came out because that's how terrified. I was of admitting that I had a mental illness. So I don't know what hope the rest of you have. That aren't multimillionaires us. That aren't world famous because I was terrified to do it with all of my resources. And you're just a regular person who may or may not have health both insurance. But that's never the message. Is it the messages that they're so brave that they're so brave and we must embrace them by hiring them to speak and tell us how they're exactly act like us except they're not exactly like us at all. I want some acknowledgement that. They're not exactly like us they're not. I don't want to defend celebrities celebrities here but I could argue if I was going to argue this point. I don't know if I am but hypothetically if I were to argue this point they have a lot more to lose than than your average person. Let's say their career. Yes you are. I could lose our career as well but my career doesn't mean losing millions of dollars. It is worse because then I would probably for sure be homeless. They probably wouldn't be homeless. I don't know maybe I'm not arguing. This appropriately because I am talking myself out of the argument as we're doing it right now. I don't know on the show. Somebody who is not depressed acts as a depression advocate. That is not okay right. If you don't have it don't pretend you have it. No good we can. Both agree agree on that and it's important to recognize that the reason that a show that has watched by millions of people is lampooning. This is because it's relatable it's it's because it happens it's because it's occurring. I always said that I want to be so famous. The Simpsons Make Fun of me on the Simpsons because the simpsons only make fun of you on the Simpson's after you've made it. They're not making fun of people you've never heard of the reason that Beau Jack Horsemen. The television show is making fun of this is because it is so consistent and in our culture that they made fun of it and they knew that it would get laughs and people would relate to it. They're not making this up out of thin air. This happens constantly. Constantly Bentley are top advocates in the space are suddenly people that what what did they do. Well first of all excellent use of lampooning. Just saying I've been using big words. Well that was a good one. We'll be right back after these messages interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field. Don't give and listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash show also subscribed to the psych central. podcast cost on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are license accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling feeling is right for you better. Help Dot com forward slash psych central. We're back discussing the role celebrities play and mental health advocacy. Can we stop beating around the Bush here. Who who are you talking about? I mean I don't need a bunch of famous people pissed off at me. I don't know that I want a name. People because I cannot possibly have an exhaustive list. I and one of the reasons that I can't have an exhaustive list is because you have like who I consider probably the most dangerous mental health advocates. And that's Kanye in West. He's extraordinarily dangerous in what he's saying and his message and he's extremely popular right now. But then you have sort word of the less offensive people and I'm not going to name them because they're not necessarily charging even for speeches they just bring it up. They're just minding their own business one day. And they're like Nick Hayes by the way I have depression to and then there's a whole article about how I'm going to say his name and I feel bad because I love this guy and I just saw his movie dwayne Wayne Johnson and all of a sudden. There's an article about how the Rock has depression now. That's not necessarily his fault because he's not offering himself up as a mental health advocate. He didn't don't give a press release he just said in an interview and now it's everywhere so he's become a de facto depression advocate even though he never asked for it. It isn't trying signed to be and that's why I use him as an example. This is really rough. If you're somebody suffering from depression right because after all the rock did it why can't you and is his information correct. But it's not his information. It's the media's information that's twisting it then we'd have to do a show on how the media fucks everything up which we totally could but here's the thing there's no winning. Everybody loses because either the Rock in this example which first of all you said Dwayne Johnson. I was like who is that. Because he's always the rock he'd just say the rock everybody just because he says hey I'm depressed. which is what we want everybody to do? We want it to be normalized. We WanNA talk about it. And then the media runs with it which they will. He's a celebrity. And you're like that's annoying. I hate that but if they wouldn't have done that you wouldn't have known he was depressed. Wouldn't have been more normalized realized. He's just a normal dude. Living with depression it feels like a celebrity cannot come out in your perspective here as living with mental mental illness. Unless they are saying. Now I'm going to be a top advocate because I actually live with this. If they're just casually telling the world I have mental illness. It's it's not okay with you. See and that's that sounds really awful to me. It is like I wanna be gave up. Yeah this is what I struggle with. I am really really not really upset when I think about all of the mental health advocates. That have literally lost everything a long time ago. People were like gable you volunteer to do X Y AND Z at my conference nonprofit. My event might drop in center and I would always point out that they're not asking me to work for free. They're asking me to work for negative negative money. I'm losing money. Because websites and gas and podcasts and microphones and and studio time all this shit costs money. So I'm taking my own money and dumping in thousands upon thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours and I don't have the clout as a casual house will mention by the rock now. That's not his fault. That's just our celebrity obsessed culture but it does get to me it does. I'M NOT GONNA lie. It bothers me that celebrities casually mentioned that they suffered from depression. Ten years ago for twenty minutes and they immediately have a platform one hundred million times the size of people like me who have been paying my own way doing in my own research and talking to thousands of people for a decade and nobody wants to listen to me because hey I wasn't Jumanji but gave this is advocacy right like I see what you're saying it's valid but one there's a space forever advocate in advocacy even if the rock doesn't want to be an advocate the people he's reaching teaching Bhai admitting being depressed are probably not the same people were reaching. Let's be real our audiences I think are maybe a little bit different. Also I don't know maybe I have this grandiose opinion opinion of the advocacy that we do and it's not nearly as impressive as I think it is but I look at it like look at the work people did in the LGBTQ space thirty years ago right they did so much work. They were protesting. They were writing. They were doing all this bananas stuff. They put their lives at risk. They were arrested all this bananas Shit so people today can just live their lives and while the example is not lateral. I feel like you're your doing all this work. You're spending your money your time your energy all of these things for not a ton of cloud but the whole point is to make this easier for people in the future right. We want them to feel like. There's less stigma. We want them to feel supported. We want them to get help. That's why I do this young doing it for the money and you're go wrong business. I'm not doing it for the money and the fame but a little bit of money and fame would be nice. I do need to eat. I would just like to pay my bills. Yes I want to break even a little bit. Nobody should feel sorry for Gabe. Howard and I I'm genuinely and honestly not advocating for that? I don't WanNA bunch of email saying saying you know Gabe you know. We're we're sorry that you can't eat. I'm a fat guy I can eat just fine. I'm good but this is hard work. And sometimes it gets to me as a patient agent because mental health advocates in general. Don't have a lot of clouds and patients have even less clout than that. And I know it's a lot to be said and and I'm probably picking on celebrities. They're an easy target. But it's hard to watch a multimillionaire cry about living with anxiety Eddie when I go down to the prisons and the jails and I watched them live with severe and persistent mental illness. When I've gone to funerals of people who have died by I suicide when I look at all? The states can't pass Medicaid expansion so even though we have people ready willing and able to get treated for their mental illness us. They can't see a doctor because they don't have insurance. When I see homeless camps get raided by the police because they're a blight on the community and I watch people die in winter inter because they can't find shelter and I'm supposed to shed a tear for a multimillionaire and then I see all of these groups? Pain aim them tens of thousands of dollars to come speak at their events knowing the horror. Show that people with severe and persistent mental illness or going through through. I'm sorry I just WANNA call bullshit and walk out of the room I do. I can't help it. I'm sure they're fine. People and their mothers loved them and I want to hug them I do. I'm sorry they went through this but my initial response is a please. You've gotta be kidding me. I think it's fine. If that's your initial initial response would have my favorite things. I learned a therapy. Is that your first initial response is basically what you're conditioned to think throughout your whole life right so your first response is something. That's arguably negative or racist or sexist or something terrible. It's kind of deep rooted thing that you've learned from society your family whatever the second thought that comes a split second later. That's really what you think. And that has been really helpful for me in therapy and I think I'm assuming I am putting putting words in your mouth one hundred percent. The first thought is this is bullshit. That's not fair. They have all the resources in the world. They are not recognizing their privilege and the second thought what is there are still people. It's all relative. And if they're feeling anxious because of whatever's happening in their life that's still valid that's my third response My second response is use your privilege. Use Your celebrity. Use Your money to help the people that I just mentioned and the celebrities. Who are doing that? My hats are off to them and Lady Gaga is one. She is using her position to raise money for the National Council to offer offer mental health youth first aid to teachers and coaches and help stem suicide hats off to her hats off to her and Carrie Fisher. She's gone now but she really did a lot of great work. But I'm not seeing a lot of that I'm not how do you know that that won't be like what the Rock does. You have to sort of come come out right. This is him saying hey. I have depression if he was to be a mental illness advocate and just came on the scene and was like. Hey everybody I'm depressed. Let's do this together. You'd be like what the Hell since one is the rock depress. This is bullshit. He's not even really depressed. They all do they have to establish a baseline of like. Hey I have this a lot of celebrities. Celebrities do this where they sort of come out to the media of whatever health ailment they have a lot of them then take that as a steppingstone to doing advocacy. But I think I think that if he just came out and was working with whoever as their new spokesperson. You would have exactly the same issue that you had with Bojan horsemen. You'd be like this is bullshit. That guy does not have that thing. So you're right when the rocket I don't know why we're picking on the rock that guy so strong couldn't pick on a weaker guy and one that I liked a lot less because I just love the rock. Please don't body slam me if you're listening but right now he's got a lot of words. You're right I will respect him more when he has a lot of actions to the most pressing point he doesn't have to and he didn't do anything wrong wrong. I'm kind of a little bit sad that we're using him as an example because all he said was I suffer from depression. He didn't charge anybody. Twenty five thousand dollars to talk about outed he just said it out loud so actually my hat's off to people like him. I'm really focusing on the people that are making money being famous and having mental toil nece. I think we're saying the same thing in a different way so maybe we should just agree to agree with a slight side of disagreement. Aside of disagreement is agreement. I like it and of course. I'm a hypocrite. The biggest hypocrite in the room. I don't want anybody to charge for mental health speech except me. It's kind of hard to get around that outright. I mean if you want me to come speak your venue right now. I'm going to send you a contract and you gotta give me a stack of money and I justified that by saying well. Hey I'm not a multimillionaire because I don't have my TV show. I think that there is some some justification in that but where does it end. Like how many speeches should I give for free versus. How many are charged for? Because I do speak for free. I do volunteer and tear and the answer is I don't know I don't know but it does rubbed me the wrong way and when I saw Bo Jack Horsemen talk about it on the show. It validated that because it shows that other people are seeing it that way too and this is cause for concern and maybe we should make some changes. Maybe or maybe we not. I don't run the world. Gabe if you've been listening to this. If you've listened to your speech we know you're not a bad guy we just now. You've got bills to pay right. These are hard conversations. UH-HUH RATE I don't get to decide and that is one of the things that I do like about the world that Gabin. Jackie don't get to decide but we do get to share our opinions and and I'd be interested in hearing what your opinions are. Jackie what's the email so people can tell me how wrong I am. Show at Psych Central Dot com send hate mail was subject line to Gabe. Should we send like positive male with subject line to Jackie. Absolutely thank you for tuning in remember wherever you download this. PODCAST rank get however you feel is appropriate and use your words. Tell people why you like it. We would also love to come to your next event. Not Crazy travels well. Hit US UP AT SHOW AT PSYCH CENTRAL DOT COM and a book to. Do this live Gabin. Jackie in person are a lot more fun than we are in your ears. We will see everybody next week. Have have a good one. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com mm-hmm non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with Gabe go to gain power dot com to work. The Jackie go. Oh to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels. Well have given Jackie recorded episode. Live at your next event. Email show at psych central dot com for details details. We're back discussing what roles celebrity We're back discussing doing what roles celebrity play. Why can't I do this? Where back discussing what roles celebrities play and Mental Health Advocacy Nail? That he's GonNa do it two more times with different inflections. Yeah Okay and we're back discussing what roles do celebrities. Fuck Ah Fuck. We're back talking about a dump cartoon and Mental Health Advocacy are kind of like that one and we're back talking about Mr Peanut Butter An- mental health advocacy. What does that even mean? And we're back talking about Bowe Jack Horsemen and mental health advocacy. Good podcasting is so glamorous.