Episode 16: Thoraiya Dyer
Welcome to the world shapers conversations with science fiction and fantasy authors about the creative process. On your host Edward Willits. And this episode's guest for Raya dire. Welcome to another episode of the world shapers. I'm your host Edward Willett. I started this podcast because I am also a writer of science fiction and fantasy as are my guests, and I've always enjoyed talking to other writers about their creative process. So I decided, hey, why not make it into a podcast? My latest book is actually called a world shaper. It's the first book in new series cold world shapers. And if you think that might be why this podcast is called though, world-shapers you would be exactly right. And it actually kind of ties in because it set in a labyrinth of shaped world or the people who have the power to shape these worlds live inside the world's. They have Shaked. I'm not sure that many authors would actually like to the Vince the world's that they have shaped certainly some of the ones I've created over the years. I would much wanna live there. Nice place to visit wouldn't want to live there. But that's kind of the premise of world shaper publisher's weekly gave it a starred review and called it a Rawling contemporary fantasy book. This said it was quirky and fund. So I think you might enjoy it too. If you'd like to check it out, you can check it out on my website at Edward, Willett dot com to tease on Willett. W I L L E T T dot com. You can find a sample of it there, and you can find out about all my other books. There are are quite a few of them other. Recent things have included a collection short stories called paths to the stars. And even a collection of science fiction fantasy poetry illustrated by my niece, Wendy del called I tumble through the diamond dust. So this is my website. If you're interested check that out, and you can find all of these books your favorite online bookstore. All right. So that's enough about me. It's time to get onto this episode's guest three dire. Three a dire is a four-time areola award winning three time Ditmar award winning Austrailia science fiction writer and veterinarian a graduate of Sydney University and resident of the beautiful Blue Mountains her work as appeared in Clark, swirled, apex cosmos. Analog and various US Australian and policies including bridge Infinity edited by Jonathan stran- and published by celebres for her original short stories are collected in asymmetry available from twelfth planet press. Dire is represented by the Ellensburg literary agency as indeed M, I she's member of the science fiction and fantasy writers of America and her titans forest big fat fantasy trilogy. Those are words comprising. Crossroads of canopy echoes of under story into tides at the titans set in a massive magical rainforest is published by tore and we'll be talking about that in this podcast. You can listen to short story set in the same world at the chimney bore and the Tanner at podcast dot org. You can find our online at the Raya dire dot com. You can follow her at three dire. Twitter for tweets as she puts. It not just about books, but her other great loves the environment. Bush walking, archery and traveled, so three wealth. To the world shapers. Thank you. So I always liked to figure out the connections that I have with authors. There always seems to be something either. A lot of them I met at a science fiction convention of Kerry. But not you are only connection. I could find is that we share agent. You have have you? Alan Berg agency. Yes, Ethan, Allen Berg agency. So but we've we've never met. No. But we know we have the Canadian connections will my grandparents astray in grandparents sit off on a trip around the world to teach in as many countries. As I go to nice got stuck in Canada twenty five years. So my mother spent her formative years in Kennedy, and my is on Vancouver island high away. Away. I feel like we have that as well. I guess we do that. We're going to talk about your titans forest books in the course of this. But whenever I get started. I always like to take my my guests back into the mist of time. And how did you become interested first of all in science fiction fantasy and then in writing did that happen at the same time where they separate things. How did that happen for you? Tightly tightly at the same time. Yeah. I think all kids. Love getting lost in worlds of the imagination say the mo-. Putting a question is why some of them stopped reading science fiction or stuff enjoying the sorts of stories as very lucky that my mom was a science fiction fantasy Fain. She head so many paychecks from the fifties onwards, but also said a child-friendly ones luck as a moles robot, stories and. The flight to the mushroom planet that one I remember the title. I don't think I ever read. It's bad of a couple of kids into these Ed in the newspaper someone wanted to volunteer to pay the space. It's and it's it's so good. And then. You know, fantasy wise aided Blyden and the jungle book and the never ending story were all the. Yeah. Love those right off the bat. Blyton is a name that. I don't think anybody else has mentioned yet. But I actually know her work because when I was in university. I I lived with a family and Edinburgh for a little while, and they had all these ended light and books the famous five books, and I read my way through those even though I was like eighteen because there was nothing else. Astor? Phil. The magic faraway tree. No. I didn't read that one. That was the same sort of adventurous group of kids is he had the sinus, but you know, discovered these magical tree. Sort of fairies, and and things would live in the branches and the world at the top of the tree would change each time. You climbed up this. So you know, they in the world of dreams of the world of giants or the worlds of music and every time you climbed up. There was an adventus. I that's predictive say. Great books. Great books. So when did you start trying to right? Well, I guess you could say that the first science fiction story, I write was year in in third grade. I wrote what could be called STA was fan fiction. We had these Tosco spicy writing about a haunted Hassen completely subliminally. I ended up writing about the hero escaping by throwing a skull at the door mechanism. Not unlike Luke escaping the regular and. Yeah. That went on to read that in front of the class because I got great mocks for it. And then all the little boys of hyping up. Hey, doesn't that happening staff? Title. Always always loved writing. And then after I finish e twelve but before I started school, I was writing and submitting shield stories to strike in markets. But I didn't get eighty acceptances so off to school. I went and they didn't try game seriously until. So I was pregnant with my daughter, and I had to leave the veterinary workplace because of the x rays in the city send the hormones and things and I didn't want my daughter to end up with two heads. So San myself at Harmon thought, it's time to give this a serious, go and. Yeah. That's what I. Deep. Get my short stories published embraced by these strange science fiction community and the lady at into discovered conventions. And that's the wrist is history. Well, did you have those years when you were publishing did you take classes or workshops, or did you have writing group that you belong to any of that stuff where you kind of forging your own pay off all by yourself? Along to riding group straight. He's lodge and. Wasn't on social media about gay to various. Brought his fistfuls which they have heavy in the capital cities in the Brisbane one particular like the Sydney, Rhonda's fistful. He's very literary. I don't know what a slot in suspect one, but they love poetry and see Newcastle. And I was living said it wasn't much of genre. Fakest, but. Brace been which is like twelve hundred kilometers away from where I was leaving. Had invited. Gene Frankel from toys to teach one day workshops in those cyst right after my daughter was born and got good value from that. But that was the exception rather than the rule actually Cisco is similar and by the way kudos for pronouncing scotch who incorrectly. I. Punished. One ever heard was we were travelling in some kid looked at our license plate said Sascha chew in that. So that was very impressive. But yeah, it's it's much the same. I mean, it's a it's a big empty space. And, but we have a very strong writers guild here in the province and not a lot of John. Focus especially now, when I was growing up, and actually I'm I'm kind of the guy that writes the science fiction fantasy call them for their newsletter. Now, so. So there's a bit more of a now than there was when I was. Yeah. So what was your first published fiction? I published showed story is in a stray magazine code Andromeda, spice ways, inflight magazine. And. Think what was the title of the story? Oh, I should have done some research on my own website. You've had a lot of stories probably so. Yes. So. It's a really good format when you submit to them a hefty prices. So it's a rotating roster of additives say that nobody gets to time and tat. And they give really good feedback in. That's all I was after at the time at this story was published and then it was shortlisted for an Orioles award, which is the stray and juried speculative fiction award, which I head hood of bossing stickers on the cover of Sean Williams's novels that if you're familiar with showing Williams. But said that by going to that presentation ceremony. I mitt sort of the new visit Shaka's of a strain smo-, press and. Pretty amazing kiss. When I was doing submitting before it was pretty at many scripts in Pisces into the United States and footing these messy. Hosts each bills, which luckily, thanks to the wonder of ace of mission Steiner exist anymore, but it was Cussing me one hundred eight of us. So and then after that are you wrote a lot of short stories. The goal to takes it of eighty six up that I wanted to get like. The semi pro sale and then my prairie sale. I had my locus magazine and GIO troop to delete civil the markets and. On you. What I love raiding submitting to those. So excited to be accepted by clock swelled and analog still haven't cracked decimals, but I'm gonna trying. Rotimi? Good practice in. Yeah. Not taking it too. When you get rejected stood me good. Steve Nelson missions for one thing. I found interesting is to you. Right. Both science fiction fantasy and some authors. I talked to do that. But other specializing in one or the other do you? Find it easy to move back and forth between the Jonah's I do, and I love said of different with H one life feel with the science fiction. You know, there's that my meant of understanding. You realize that something is possible that you never thought was possible before or some kind of you say some kind of scientific concept, which was just numbers and live is on a page. Suddenly the meeting of it to Seoul on folds and a love that moment of discovery with that, whereas think. We faint with magic. It's lists of. Understanding half things work and more that. Just feeling really intense feelings probably that children get to feel more. When they. When they don't know the limitations of possibility. I guess I'm thinking of that if you know, it's Christmas time and just head the chat with my daughter. She's just working at the Santa's not real and always thought to myself. You know, I'm never going to Tila straight at that these nice CENA unless she unless she comes to me with a question. And then I'll answer it honestly, say she's come with me come to me with the question. And I've said look now there isn't a scene terror and. This the sadness of that being taken away. I think fantasy let's see leaving the realm of infinite possibilities, and that's just so wonderful one. My hubby's of. Torri and loving to be nature. They will go towards what I ride on the faint seaside, whereas the veterinary science and rating the journals and staying on top of sit of current discoveries that occas into the science fiction side. What drew you into veterinary medicine? I love animals I wanted to Ziv it. Always with interest sitting saving digest from extinction. And then worked so hard to get into it. It's a very competitive coast here and then on the day, very slick as we head to zoos it coming Driss the class, and he was like, well, here's how he's got five zoos, and there's like threes UV it's in the whole country. And if you wanna get one of these coveted positions pissing can do is, you know, maybe work with kettle potential. You know, they lodge animals, and they the most similar to Gerard. And you run is and not just count work with cals for ten or fifteen years. I can't do it. So I gave up on the plane and. I'm a small animal Vicini Aaron, but I do as much wildlife and booed work as I can. Really love that. It's going to say when I was in high school. I was drawn to veterinary medicine for a time. But what kind of cured me was I did a spend a day with the provincial veterenarian, which I found out that his work consisted of chasing CAL's around five yards in the middle of the winter. And then, you know, vaccinating them or doing blood tests or whatever. And then I was reading the James Herriot books, of course. And I was thinking you have to put your arm where? Right. So yeah, what you want to be telling bad at potties Cup telling hand. Yeah. I mean, it's really physically demanding. And again, I imagined it would be saying there. It's a lodge area this lodge decency to drive the twain funds and being on coal. Weighs down. I mean, I was on coal as a young of it on not now because I can't do the thing where you work all day. And then you style whole night with wilting dog snake bite or TC prelates case. And then you still got enough brain Powell if to still be there at work and working day lock couldn't do it. Couldn't do these days. Remember from the couple of your of your hobbies, archery. And you also have quite a bit of karate training. Have you used that in your in your fiction, you're kind of insight into martial arts? And archery. Absolutely always trying. We're cat hair. Things would actually work. It's been a long time since karate. Oh, yeah. To get those max to get into head to something head to give. So I gave out martial arts at that stage. But more for ak- is when the story saying crusades canape, the main character easy magic. Whereas the protagonist of the sick and book is a physical thought as more using my karate and Autry knowledge in the second book than in the midst of you felt reading fantasy over the years that are tree is often badly done. The I have had that thorn. But then when I mentioned it seeing how little it matters to most people want is makes me wonder if I've been thinking it and sit of over researching, and they you know goes with the theme of. Finding at cool stuff. And then feeling you stories we'd say much cool stuff that you haven't got room lift. Breath and develop can't be bad habit. So maybe I just throw all my practical. The winds have all kinds of crazy, stunts luck. The ones in them recent robot hood. Gave me a giggle enjoyment. But. Was not any kind of historical. Accuracy was far as I can tell fighting would be a lot easier. If you could do it in slow motion. That's what I get out of. Little more time to think. I went to convention in Vancouver where they had some there's a call. Remember the name of it? But there's a company out there that does Nettie sword fighting people do it as a fitness class, in fact, and they had a panel on on fighting. And basically what for some reason I was on it? And I said, I'm not an expert biting means. So my philosophy is if I can't be accurate just be. Deviate. He blocked blows physics as well. Exactly. Well, you mentioned. Cross. Crossroads of canopy. Though the cycle which I have here in front of me somewhere the second book, which is called. I bet you know. That's right. So let's talk a little bit about that. What was the seed for for that that setting? What what made you think I'd I'd like to write a book set in a giant forest world. Well, oh, actually sorry before we do that. Maybe you should explain what the stories about. Well, the story is about a giant rainforest and. You know, so so messy too. Should I be saying missing Columba's, oh miles? Let's say mild high, and and stratified so the the divisions between countries vertical not horizontal say, we've got a characters are in the uppermost level of these massive massive rainforest there in CD up if it's good it's ten theon of God's that are reincarnated into human bodies. And then MA in character. She's up there. Nobody knows what's going on in the low levels of the far too sold. Doc danna. You can't see what's there, and nobody can come up from beneath because we've got this magical barrier, which is maintained by the gods that separating them say that no demons can come up for Monday. And then, of course, foles dam through these Varia, and that is the kickoff hair adventures to sit of fund what's heading Dami. So what was the seed so to speak that sprouted this giant? I. Well, it was wanting to have countries that was stacked on top of other instead of sod bus side. And then yes because spend so much time in nature than looking this realizing that. You know in a real this and wild rainforest. They're ask basis that will stay. You know between these hind these high off the ground, and that's where I leave. So wanting to have a fantasy met divided up like that which I hadn't really seen before. Was really excited about doing that? And then the characters. You know, it's just gotten my l book of Greek meet Sam to read to my daughter, and and and Atalanta whose stories that she was raised by a and then they three hunters who are brothers kill the bay and takeover. The raising of says, she has all these med hunting skills. That was the story is reading. She is the basis for the character of immerse who is the protagonist of on the story that as I was working at the world. And and what kind of society would be for a character to be born into and going back in time. That's way, the character of came in. And then the seed I guess so the character of you now was just rating so many fantasy books where the floor hero is a lead to find redemption. Whereas e wouldn't get to have a flawed heroine who is regained in the same way. She's a villain or. You know, she's condemned. And maybe I underestimated him. On likeability the radio would toll-rate in a same out character because of head quite a bit of pushback against her. Jeez. That way deliberately it's not an accident. And I like. History. What's your process for developing something, you had these ideas? Do you do a detailed synopsis? Do you work with? A general idea. And then you discover it as you write it what what's the process for developing story. Title panta, but agents is. Preferred have outlines and. So my prices was to write things on sticky nights. If you look back he'll to spawn. One of them says Atlanta and another one saves countries on top of each other for the in these pudgy diagram and. An exercise book and then. After the idea collection. Heff to ride, and and I right and that line for just the one book. And then when my agent suggested that was not very likable. Instead of changing. Two big lockable. I said, look how do you essay cool with the Mojo kind of hero? And and that was like, hey, and that's how it got extended adding to trilogy. Three books. As you said, you have they'd have a different focus in the second one. So are they would you call them series? Or are they more like individual books, but they're all related within the same world. I feel like he could raid the second and third once as stained lines. But. Definitely if you're not season fantasy raider things more simplified and better explained in this one. So you want to stop there? It's it's three different protectiveness. And I hope done a good enough job explaining the story that. Yeah. Nate to rate them together. And I don't think that they I mean one since there is a big that starts in the beginning and finishes in the third book. But notice Strom to a true Szentesi series. I think. So we're new we're forced to write a synopsis. How how how long does it was? It was extremely detailed or still fairly general fairly general. It was bad pages for each book. The single space twelve point font. And I probably stuck to a bit of what I'd written. I know how closely do you follow your? You stay pretty close to what you've written. What do you change it up? I'm asking the questions here. Well, actually, a question I asked most people I talked to, you know, at varies from author author for me, it's probably sort of like that I have a fairly detailed synopsis, and I'm I'm selling the books on the basis of the synopsis, but when I actually start writing it I start to wonder and occasionally I'll get. I know with one book, I got close to the end. And I realized there was no way I could get to the ending that I had put into synopsis, so I had to reply to everything from there to the end. So yeah, I'm right in there with you. Yeah. I feel like as long as it's better than what you had before. It's okay. What happens is that as you're writing you, you know, the brain starts working on a different level than when you were set up. Sizing and things. I should ask you what what did you? Find is different about the writing as opposed to the stop sizing. You tell me well. Well, I think if you start with characters, and then you feel out the world sick. And after you've done this. Then you discover things about the world that fit bitter or that you could use more neatly to solve a problem. Whereas if we the plot then go the other way, then you might find that you've written is not actually consistent with that character. And then it's the characters who make go and different direction because you didn't think about them properly before when you were deciding what we're going to do to your character notes. Look like, a detailed sketch ahead of time or. Yeah. I mean, I try not to. Change the color of their eyes. And I might just putting putting extra may history. You know, they childhood because say format favorite body in. And then, you know, you always want to know what they love and what they're afraid of and. Good any irrational fees or? Goals in the other direction soon not more than a couple of pages do decide what characters you need. Hadn't decide what characters made the viewpoint. If again, if you started with a character based story, then you know, which character, but he started with a plot based idea then who's going to give you the good perspective on that. And. Heme many teenage like what is the minimum number. Yes, it can be like reducing a mathematical equation. We'll all have these characters gonna be if these that I really wanna see inside these characters these happens. But you don't want to have too many points of view and make everybody crazy. A lot of this. Of course, happens on the fly. You don't necessarily figure it out ahead of time. Some some characters pop up while you're writing. Yes. Only once have I completely changed pointy. And it wasn't even a novella a novel. It was an villa. I know if I'm hard working enough to go AK this novel to completely changed or if I'd just be like that's the same man of work is ready lately. Do that. Instead. What is your actual writing process? Look like to you. Right longhand. Do you write regular time? What how's it work for you? Say yeah, you find on the school drop off and say something or hear something. And I'm like that's going to be in my story of go to notebook that are carrier and with me Jody. And then when I get harm. I have got a separate very old, computer. That's not connected to the internet in a separate place far away from all internet connected devices. And I see it at it. And I have to stay there and till done fails and words today. That's very disciplined. Sometimes it's quick. And sometimes literally takes all day to produce pathetic. Amanda woods, but. There's another word for that. It's called a typewriter. Well, I then I like to be able to Beck it up. So because it's not connected to anything and carrying my little drive back and forth to my internet, computer. But I joined Twitter shortly after my fish short story was published and it was fantastic. It working the riders and saying like, especially sharing links to only amazing short fiction that's published free online magazines, but the whole day would go by we that any words thing written. If I didn't lock myself away. Yes. I I'm right with you on that one too. You've mentioned the the Australian science fiction writer community are very supportive. Do you have people that you network there that you either uses beta readers or just you can talk about writing with? I did find a lot of beta raiders. So. Went on joined it within the late up to the con-. I wanna say four astray was having world cone in them. Melvin and everyone all the small presses with really excited about. Having guess we're gonna have and. The opportunity to showcase excellent and often creepy work to the a lot of them. We're taking submissions and load of coming out. And so just opportunities to submit places. And also just to. Yeah. Just to talk about what you loved. It was great and still. You know, I feel like catching out we've PayPal once a year at the strain national convention is the bay made a move what I would want to do to stay in touch with people that I'm in. Schooled. And I went to Dan to see me. Once every couple of months, probably to write fun of work based if I'm not critiquing other tables, would I think I'm at a. Place now where I just want to make things and and find like, I know when it's good and when it's not good, and I'll just send it at intil. There's an edited who agrees with me. So I'm not doing a lot of the whole choking. So when I go to a riding group, we not radiate stuffing giving feedback, but we'd just doing sort of a simple thing to what I'm saying locked in my writing room, but we doing it in solidarity and just fitting in the same room something that Canadian science fiction writer, sometimes get asked is there's something that makes Canadian science fiction different from British science fiction or American science fiction. Australian science fiction. Do you think there's something? Noticeably. Australian about the work that comes out of Australia. Funny because I own notice growing up like my grandparents for in Canada, and they always wanting to support like Ladyson. They would sit me Charles delinked in go. I k- books are always found them to have more. Not stray leanness. I don't know. Really enjoyed. Something that the writing itself not the storylines because I with a sign, but this the actual rotting styles. Samed more strain to me. Maybe it was that if you're right. If you're a Canadian, right? I e feel like you need to explain your cultural references because otherwise Americans went get them and that differently has to happen. If you're sitting stirring, the strata and warning to sill it sees you go to explain things properly. Which adds a whole new level to you will building. Because not only are you trying to not info dump to had we the actual. Advanced science or fantasy magical thing that you're trying to explain. But then you just go to also on top of that explain things that are normal to you that might not be able to that radio. I don't think I didn't think there is much of a difference. I. Often people ask questions on panels will say, oh, you know, we're isolated in speed wide land. And it lends itself to Hora and a strain cinly right amazing HARA with the sense of oscillation. But I personally don't feel it since isolation. I love the stray move nece in. Highly no rating, my descriptions of forest, again, feel that it's coming from a place of being written by the wild and the woods. That's beautiful to me not threaten. That's actually something that's been said about Canadian fiction that it's it's man against nature, and the vast unfeeling cold, and and all that sort of thing, and such a what person thing, isn't it? It's like we here, and there's nothing and it's empty and like, no, it's really not anti it's full of indigenous people and. Yeah. I guess I haven't read a lot of indigenous Canadian authors, but that is my favorite astray in writing coming at the moment. Is indigenous rod is coming into science fiction fantasy and and bringing ebb salute connection and that sense of wonder and tower that it has good stuff. Now when you've got your completed draft. What does your writing process like did you tend to have a really clean manuscript? You don't have to do much or do you have a complete rewrite or how does it work for you? I didn't shouldn't have seen many. I mean, it's pretty Taty didn't have many spilling mistakes, but I have to drop back and try and look at the big plot elements and make sure that they work in. So usually run off the whole manuscript. John Ryan show stories month comeback to it. And brought onto the printed manuscript anything. That's charts is I'm reading through it again. And. After that. It's good to go to find it easier to spot stuff off of printouts as opposed to working just off the screen fits the screen or again just being away from the internet. I can take place and a theme. Absolutely. And I'm not a person that works with music at a nephew. Listen to me. I don't know. Silence tests and say, I should say, I do I do a lot of writing in coffee shops, and I can do it with just conversation going on around me. But if somebody too close, and I can hear every word that they say, then I'll put on headphones because I don't want to know about their whatever. And I've learned a lot about people sitting here coffee shops. But that I really don't care about. But I'm not somebody that sets a playlist, and you know, you have you have mood music for writing battle scenes, and you have different Musica writing scenes. I I've talked to people like that. But it's not the way I work that is strange mysterious. That world different. What's the Royal process? Like have you had the same editor on all the books of tour? Yes. Stay with the first book more agent gave me some editorial nights fist. And then after it was so. Head Diana doing the the city structure located and then it has the copy it it. And you know, you final. You final read fruit through of the galleys and things. Do you get a lot of stairs said you get a lot of editor? He'll notes from Diana. What's your style? Yes. So she I have not very good at the which she's very good because she'll say it, it's why is really digging in the telephones at the emotional. And giving all the fields. I maybe this isn't a strain think to that we like to a little bit understated rather than stealing things. And then the other major fail is that I am not interested enough in fastened to describe people's clothes. There's a lot of what are they wearing going on? So. Yeah, sometimes, but she's right Usenet. She's archers as easy to do it. It's when you know that there are I met world gone in San Jose. And she's one of the put me in touch with you. Because I I asked her after I met her she's an Email and and followed up with me. And then I said, well, you know, I'm looking for guests for for the podcast. And so you were one of the people that she recommended to me. So I'm very happy that she did. All of the people the New York people. I saw them agents editors. I've met a few but living in Saskatchewan. I don't make connections with very often. So you had the the first book, and how did it turn into a trilogy? You said that the second one you wanted to more. Traditionally roic character. How how did you know that you had more story to tell? I guess what I'm asking the kiss. I still head. They sell the character hanging around. So, you know, head my in book one, and I had my warrior in book two, and then I hit this character. And he's a bit of a. A poet of a spy. Didn't really fit in anywhere. And then I thought oh, he's my. My character. And that just totally feet with everything that had come before say he had heavy signed book as well. Go on his voyage of discovery. And then yeah. Then head my my three parts of a rainforest. My canopy under story in my first full Trump, mostly yes. Short fiction set in this world to have. Yes. So. One of the. Comments that even my agent made on the first draft of the manuscript was that my integ- inist didn't sane to heaven reasons behind her evilness. So sorry, do I say antagonise proteins, my antagonise? Daddy didn't have enough behind to. He wasn't feeling it. So I wrote to harangue back story, which thin tend into a story in its iron, right? And it was very kindly peaked up by poed castle. And. Dan. I just did a fantastic rating of it. I'm trying to think of the. The voice actresses name again lack of research a month. But I was really pleased with had that came in the other books of the book spin done as audiobooks. Yes. And I think I can remember that it's Christine Mashal that the voice of the they ought visions of novels, and although it's very strange hearing your thoughts come at an American accent. Very good. Also. I just had a five book why fantasy series? That's actually said in Saskatchewan. So it was one right? Didn't have to explain any cultural references because it's published by Scotsman publisher. It said it's. But it came out an audiobook, and I I find it an interesting experience hearing my words read to me by somebody else. Do you find do you? Find yourself listening to that. And thinking, you know, I kind of wish I had changed that before. I mean, and we'd short stories I will sometimes read the whole story led to myself because it really does let you find repeated yourself or you've got unnecessary decent. Seeing just extra words that don't really need to. But I can face not doing that with the novels. Say it does make you or turn that up a little bit. But Lynn only strive fiction. Well, the with the ones that I had said into Scotland I had to do a little. Pronunciation guides for places like. Moose jaw. Scandal lake which is where the action takes place and things like that. So, but and scotch when I think I had to make it clear how scattered pronounce well, people often want to know how to pronounce the name. I think everything else if say it. Hey, you want you know, it's like. It's like Joe rolling pronounces volda boat. All of us in the mainstream saying how we've seen it on the maybes in pronouncing, the hod tapers. She says that voldemort because in her hate it's from the French in that test. I think it's totally fun for authors and readers titties saying things different way. Now, I like to ask big philosophical questions here. You've been. You've written quite a lot at this point. Why do you right? Why do you think any of us? Right. And specifically why do you think we write this kind of stuff or why do you write this kind of stuff? I think. We write this stuff. I write these John Rabb because we have ideas for the feature. We can see a way that things could be different to Howie's. I've went to book launch of a well-known astray in poll Titian who had put out a book of he's rushing life. It was this at least of all these big important books. You know, read ward pace, and I've read this about the holocaust. And I've read that about. You know, these four, and it was very heavy in realists. And if he head rid any fiction, it was very literary and their stuff those being toting, universities and read a single science fiction fantasy book, according to these time these whole laws, and it just made me said because their politics aren't thinking about, you know, we don't have to do things the same way we've always done hack, and we break out of these tragic Sarkozy's that have haunted wisened civilization forever. And the first if on making things better is being able to imagine and just think science fiction. As able to contain all those ideas and help us extrapolate and fantasy is. Is giving us that sense of control too. This is the way that this thing happened. But what if it didn't happen that Wayne State, and that's also sits so mentioned, even some portent. Yeah. And so I personally and putting things in my books that I want to read in cut find the strain content. Probably was vegan started in not looking close enough to find stuff like the indigenous content that I mentioned. Authors luck Alexis, right, whose genius and writes, strain content better than I ever could. Have now swimming into my kin, and these days, I find it's liberties content that I can't find my father bang from limit on. And. While there's a lot of short fiction net. They're really excellent fiction face avatar, and Sarah Saab, incorporating Arab. Mythology into the stories. The one really great racist novel, which is the one by Sela dean amid. Gonna be this is trilogy. He's gone into COMEX now so that sort of list literary Arabic Szentesi is what I would like to do next was leads nicely to one of the upcoming questions, which would be what are you doing next? But I'm not there yet. The other. That the name of this podcast is the world shapers. You've kind of said this a little bit of what you just said. But when you're writing are you you're shaping fictional world. Are you hoping in some way that you're shaping the real world, or at least changing your readers in someway? I think that modifing true before. Sit of online became the main way, we head of sharing culture. I think a book can't have the influence now. That maybe could have head back Wayne. Keep Stanley Robison was riding red MAs. I'm glad he's still doing it. But I think maybe films. Malware that as far as changing public opinions. It's interesting thinking the impact of art forms that there was a time when people would riot over paintings or. Poems or pieces of classical music and those things are still being presented, and they're still they're still vital art forms. But somehow they are no longer the the central art form that impacts people's thinking. And I think you're right. I think it's gone to movies are actually probably even more television series. These days. Yes. I would agree which is too bad as a writer, but. I say that just re what's arrival last night because it's on Netflix. And that came from a show story at an awful lot of science fiction stories now a lot more than ever before being turned into film and television series. Not mine yet my anybody's listening. You don't have to produce. It just give me a lot of money. I'll be fine. I think that may be the best of all possible worlds. So now, we get around to what are you doing next? What are you working on? Now. So what I'm working on? Now is say my favorite film. If is the seven seven RAI I didn't I save sane. As a love it say match, and I am working on a a ole famous version of inefficiency Arabia sitting at it's so much fun. Cool. Yes. My dad used to tell me. Instead of the standard. Western fairy tales. I'd get a bit of the creepy story about he got to the woods and the unicorn is there, and whereas you might think, oh, it's wonderful. You know, he's lovely white magical being with the medical horn in the Arabic stories that he would tell always trying to kill you issue. They haunt and you had to dodge behind a tree and trap them when they horn went through the trunk of the tree, and then you would cut off the heads and take it back to like, I Kate. Say yes, the unicorns that you will find in this book are bit more like those angry ones. Then. That you might French ferry title. He expected publication date or for that or early decided I. Say talk, it's this. But I haven't heard anything back yet on my Mary way writing it. Yes. And looking in the future would you like to write fulltime? And would you always want to keep the veterinarian side of things? If everything really well, and you were able to support yourself writing fulltime would that be your choice or do you like to break from bitten wick eventually gone back in the last little while the kiss. So doing the writing in the state home mum thing and then one day. I went to my daughter to the best of need to. And I was like, well, I k- looks like I go back to my day of then. Being back in that space. I did really miss the animals and also forces the interests mostly needed this town of any bane. He fits months, and I think if I had just paid writing alone in my non connected. Wouldn't have met the papal and become more integrated in the community. So our think our will I will probably keep doing it as fun as it is to leave the leave. It Hyman you pajamas life writing magical stories meeting. Actual people is good too. Yeah. Talking talking to here. Yeah. I think that's bringing as close to the time here. So. Where can people find you online with? You're not off lied, right? I can find my tragically behind and not racing. Updated website at Thuraya diet dot com, which is T H A Y A D Y dot com. And I'm at the riot dia on Twitter three novels of titan. I are they crossroads of canopy. It goes is under story and tides of the titans, which is coming at the end of January, which is should be just after this airs of good timing there. Thank you. And thank you very much for for being a guest on the world shapers. I really enjoyed talking to Chet that has gone slim by thank you and make sure you come to New Zealand world con-, which will be close to me and not too far away from me. I should actually. It's a little ways. I actually set a scene in a large portion of one of my books the aforementioned why fantasy series of the SARS of scholars series actually said as a section in the mountains of New Zealand. There's a book called lake in the clouds and the lake in question is actually in New Zealand. It's so beautiful you meth gate mine. Nice to go there before I wrote about it probably. Want to know if he made any exactly. All right. Well, thank you very much for being on the world shapers. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks again to for being my guest on this episode of the world shapers. I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation, and I hope that you did too. And I hope that she will come back to the world shapers for many more. Great conversations check some of the ones that have already been released. There are quite a few of them already with some of the best selling and best no names in science fiction fantasy and I have many more great guests lined up in the future. You can find the world shapers online at the world shapers dot com. You can find it on Twitter at the world shapers, you can find it on Facebook. If you do a search for the world shapers, and you can find me online again at Edward Willett dot com to tease W, I L L E T T dot com. You can find me on Twitter at e Willett, and you can also find me on Facebook as Edward Willett. That's it for this episode of the world shapers. Thanks again for tuning. In and I hope that she will come back many times in the future to enjoy many more great conversations science fiction and fantasy authors about their creative process. That's it for this time. Bye for now.