656: Do you really know how to listen?
Welcome to the Ziglar show. I'm your host. Kevin miller. Do you really know how to listen, I asked this question on Facebook. What have you been taught regarding listening being a good listener? Do you think you are a good listener we received over fifty responses? But while a lot of people share things that they had heard in regards to being a good listener. Most also admitted they aren't doing so good in this area. Well, the topic comes from my recent series on listening brought to us by Oscar Trimboli. I don't miss his main show with us number six five one for this CUNY session. I asked Oscar to join us. I think I learned more from hearing his responses to year real life questions than I did in the main interview with him. And as you'll hear Oscar was listening to me watching me and you'll hear firsthand how he employs deep listening skills right there in the moment, and he was just masterful and answering all of. Your comments and questions. I've had so many people say they went to his website at Oscar Trimboli, that's T R. I M B O L I and purchased his book. Deep listening highly highly recommended I'm about to go on and get away with my wife, and I'm taking the book with me to share with her and talk through together. Okay. So we're going to start off with Oscar and your questions right after I share some great resources. Knowing how to code is becoming a sensual in today's job market. So where do you start grasshopper is a coating at four beginners. It's built by Google engine ears and completely free with fun five minute. Puzzled you can turn your downtime in the learning. New and useful skill when you graduate. You'll have a fundamental programming skills. You need for your next step as a coder Goto, grasshopper dot codes slash Ziglar to download and get started today. Hey, Ziglar listeners in order to find great sponsors for this show that provide relevant products and services to help your life in business. It helps to know more about you, would you please go to pod survey dot com slash Ziglar. And take it quick anonymous survey once you've completed the survey you can choose to enter for chance to win one hundred dollars Amazon gift card, terms and conditions apply. Again, that's pod survey. P O D S U R V E, Y dot com slash Ziglar. And thanks so much. All right here, we go. Then listening to the listening doctor himself, Oscar Trimboli and your questions about listening. Well, Oscar every once in a while, I am intrigued enough by topic. By an issue that I not only want to do a Q and A and hear what our audience really has to say about the issue. But I also want the expert at hand you in this case, the join me and go through these and and really hear from your perspective. So thank you again for taking your time to come and invest in all of our lives. Yeah. Looking forward to listening to the questions. Well, we've got gosh. We've got some really good really in depth one. So I'm just going to start rattling them off. And all that you a let you respond. Here's a couple that all all bring to you. Tony Cooper says in leadership. She learned be the last to speak focus on listening and hearing everyone then speak. I have had to practice and continue to practice being a good listener. So on that fraiche. She says there'd be the last to speak with the next one to Brandon Russell. He's at the biggest thing I remembered amid taught is always wait to listen, not wait to talk to many of us are waiting to say, the next thing on our mind and don't even register what the other person is saying if we wait to listen, then we will intently pay attention to the person who's talking if we wait to talk than what they say never has any bearing on what our next thought is. I thought both of those very much. In line. With your message, though, I also resonate with. Sometimes I have methodically waited to be the last person to speak still. However, so I could say what I wanted to say, I was not actually listening. Yeah. Oh, my little distinction in the latest ship contexts that Tony was mentioning the point about speaking loss is is really powerful on people who practice that consistently. Get so much more from the teams. And a one on ones. That's completely true in group. Sometimes you can lose them. They feel law. Sometimes so waiting to speak lost is great. And if you want to build on that, and you've mastered that step create a framework for the group to think through as they have conversation. So that you can help them to understand the boundary conditions of the conversation. What's inside the box watts outside the box and the boundary condition may be there is no boundary conditions. And in some cases, if you're talking about the future strategy new markets that really productive. But if you're talking about operational issues and getting stuff done in a really narrow show. Tim timeframe that has implications. The other divisions will might be how products of supply to customers. Listening through a framework is also productive to the group. When to stand the boundary conditions that kinda juice off the mole because they comfortable in speaking through that framework so latest step beyond. Speaking lost. Also, quite comfortable in creating a framework, and I'll give you a simple example, the framework must be something as simple as Gaza's. We think about this topic. Let's think about what this means for our stuff for supplies and customers, if you're in the public sector, you might think about what does this main foe out budgets? What is this main full Al voters, and what does this main for political representatives? So through that way, you're almost signaling. How you're going to be thinking about your decision rather than your answer? So having a framework liberates the group to go as the. Edge a lot of times when people don't know the edge that don't show up fully self expressed. The when they do know where the edge is that heavy to go right to it in sometimes beyond. So citing shows up if you know the rules of the game when you playing by spol- game when applying Oskar bowl guy, you can be at your best. So Lleida suspect lost an opportunity if I've lost at that is to help the group listen to themselves by giving them a really good framework to. Well, and I appreciate starting off with that business focus because I know that's where you really came to a lot of your message here on listening, though, of course, have now gone into just the overall into our personalized. And that's where really most of the next are most of the rest of our questions come from pretty personal standpoint. I'll keep going here. Gregory beilin. He says the cliche cliche adage of two years. One mouth comes to mind. Sometimes I find myself wanting to interject though, I often sit on that. Then contribute a bit later. Sometimes I find myself wanting to interject though, I often I often sit on it and interject a bit a bit later until I've had enough and has quotes till I've had enough then I'll either chime in and share a doozy. Or fully disconnect in futility in a conversation. A decent listener if I'm up and about doing something that fights for my attention that I'm more of a selective listener to what is being said. To me about I'm a fantastic listener to the circus in my head. Aren't we all aren't we all, but that ITO comes into way, we talked about that in the first show about respect alternately in an Oscar as we've in the what the week, I think or so since we've talked last that's really what has been most prominent as I chew on. This is how often I am lost. I'm the loss listeners thinking about on thoughts because I am not respecting the person in front of me. And I think that's got to be such a core issue that really brings into account almost bigger a bigger root cause of not listening is giving people you respect. I don't have any point on that. I'll throw that you because right now, I'm just gonna stuck in there. Having to realize myself. The are any Kevin is when you talk about respect in that context. And the example, we just hood. The respect isn't for the other. If you respected yourself mole, the dialogue heaven you'll mind wouldn't be so violent against yourself. The dialogue in your mind. Wouldn't be so judgmental on yourself. So maybe the respect you Nate to Pifer is to you. And when you do maybe that dialogue will die. You know? We'll come down. We'll we'll lesson will retract and create that spice, but it's so common the research that odd on other researches have said the same thing. I d six percent of people struggled just to get in the conversation because they in a dialogue with them selves. So just it's a KAI often. Chuck the difference between a recreational listener a listener, isn't that a day bliss neural bay distracted by that dialogue? It's the I know it's there, and I know how to deal with a and there are high with a so on how I'm going to be distracted. You know, one of my favorite phrases a lot of the time and people quite surprised, and I'll do it regularly workshops, also Kevin. I'm really sorry. I got distracted there. Could you say that again, not apologies? And if you respect to human you can make mistakes, and it gives them respected. I've never been in a situation where somebody roll their eyes will somebody Khanna huffed impove if you do genuinely and you do it with humility people respond to that. But yeah. Cut sell subject, they might all right point taken. Thank you will on that on that that area, you know, Matt Matt Horne here, he says in my opinion, listening is from a humble mindset in a state of being of service. If you're an active listener, then you truly are looking for ways in which you can relate to the individual, and perhaps provide some solutions or offerings if possible, but sometimes and he has in parentheses coming from bloke, which has taken me many years to learn just ask my wife. You don't have to try and fix. You just have to listen. So I wanted to ask that being married that is some being married, and I'll say being a male. That's common cliche that we hear is. You don't sit there and listen to your wife a lot of times, she just wants to talk. You don't have to fix it. You just have to listen in taking that maybe I went to the far end to where I would let that go. And then really not say much of anything. Maybe, you know, just I'm sorry not offer anything which that often. That wasn't always the right response. Either. Not that she didn't want me silent completely maybe not to fix, but I'll speak from a man standpoint because I've talked with others that sometimes where do I balance out? I'm not supposed to fix, but sometimes pure silence is not the answer anyways. So I come back to where Matt started humble mind state of mindset and a state of being of service is that more on the right wave length and taking each conversation captive and try to discern where do where can I be value to this person and men generically listen to fix. And famous listen to feel so the question, you pose is rather than staying at one end of the spectrum fix and the other end of the spectrum completely lost is a simple question. Could pose pot way through the conversation at the beginning of the conversation or at the end of the conversation. And it's just a simple question. What do you need from may in this conversation that could be a question you could ask your wife at any point? And she'll tell you trust me. You know and out dog basic right way to keep L conversation grounded and going when we walk around the block it out house between may my wife and the health spas of Stipe president in the coma citation, but the premise of humility means that. Yeah. You giving up a bit of yourself to listen to them. Most cases people just wanna be hood that don't wanna be fixed. And I don't know about you, Kevin. But if I wanna be fixed, tell someone pretty quickly, but for most of us, we just wanna be hood. And that is. Yeah. Such a significant crocks I can attest to that often do but there's so often with those closest to use specially where it is. Sometimes feels overwhelming not to offer a solution, especially when you're hearing about pain for sure well, most guilt in here says I contact nonverbal communication is important and to hear the person some people just need to be heard and not fixed. I agree that being slow to speak and quick to listen as the bible teaches is important. Will you spoke, of course to that in your book? Deep listening on that. It's not just all about audio all about years, it is that being aware. Somebody I contact that non verbal communication even makes me think about what you shared in our habits show that you are have become a fan of photography because you see that as another form of listening. But talk to us a little bit on that on I contact the non verbal communication is that something that we buy foreign large ten to miss and not pay much attention to even if we're focused on listening because we are trying to really concentrate on the words, and we're not listening or being in tuned to the spirit. Yeah. Look at it from two dimensions on this one. The first dimension is from the speaker's perspective. So a speak of will and three different research. Studies highlight this that a speaker will give you credit for being a better listener by you'll mind tighening contact. So you the visual cue that you've got contact with them. The I feel your bet listener. So probably wasn't the intent of the question. But it's another way to think about I contact. So they come back from the listeners perspective. Yeah. Sameeh just walk in a triangle from the eyebrows down to the chin that just bicycling becomes a wife of made to do that. I do that three times clockwise three wise and not just doing that the other signal vow sent to you is body posture embracing. So be on the eye contact be on the creases be on the chin beyond the lips the on the browse, which is classic place that most experts in human body language will spend the time the real human lie detectors as cold as a people who used to advise lawyers in jury selection, for example, these people help out in hostage negotiation stuff that Matt as much Mola sometimes people's liberties at stike people's laws are at stike the noticing the congruency between not only what this sighing note only what's happening on the spot bed. Brazing is that breathing fossil slow and is that congre with what they saying? So typically, if you really say, you're excited about something. You're breathing will Scholten, but if the breathing is David is held long and this and I'm really excited. Instinctively you're gonna notice that you're gonna notice that. That's not congruent a lot of the times when I'm working with clients. They'll be a moment. In fact, you had that moment Kevin on our recording. When we were talking about you'll interaction as a loss. Listen with your wife, you'll body stike literally changed in front of me. And I asked you was just happened. Because there was this huge polls that was huge momentum reflection on your body energy. Which is usually really was posed in really reflective in that moment. So yes, we can look at the Feis the ause notice the breathing as well as the body energy to and if we think about those three things yet, we're gonna be listening on a whole different level. You're right. I thought about the movie scenes that we have especially in some of the crazy action movies of our time. Now, we're they'll take. A specific acute scene and slow motion. I want that to happen. Every time. It's a right listening moment, especially in my home, especially with my family, especially when I contend to be little overwhelmed, and I need to listen, I need that dramatic pause to say Kevin this is important. Maybe that's an app that you can put out Oscar. Okay. The listening at that jury grabs us and what the appropriate time. Kevin, you know, you've got the wolves best listening pets your mind, and it's hot. And it's you got in just got to figure out how to use it again. You're ready. How just being distracted into not using it? That is well, and that's why you're here with us. Thank you again. And thanks these sponsors for bringing us today show. And critical element that too many businesses overlook is great customer service. 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Love handles offering ten percent off your first order with coupon code Ziglar. So visit love handle dot com. And be sure to use coupon code Ziglar for ten percent off your first order of love handle phone grips. But Dan van low. I says be an active listener, I find that. I get easily distracted sometimes the distractions are external noise other people activity. Sometimes the distractions are internal my own thoughts. Opinions interjections in order to combat the distractions. I have a notebook and pen handy to take notes when I need to be an active listener, I make sure they know why I'm taking notes, and it's only for one conversation as an attorney. I was forcing this outfit for court hearings client meetings, meditation, mediations, etc. And incorporated, the practice into attending church board meetings and even personal meetings over coffee. This helps me focus on listening. What's being said and allows for me to make him more wealth thought out response rather than being reactionary or being rude. And interrupting the other person I have since learned by not talking and organising organizing. My thoughts in this matter. Other people in a meeting. Share rather than have me dominate. I can then focus my thoughts on what's most important last sentence. He says I do not use this practice when talking with my wife exclamation point. Maybe maybe he should well, I appreciated that when I did learn from business mentor longtime ago, the importance the value of taking notes for personal memory one. And for the honoring coming back to our respect aspect of the other person. I just came here straight from a lunch meeting. I had my journal out on the table. I did take notes, and I knew it was honoring for the other person. But it was literally for me to remember. And I think it's from this habit that I'm sometimes amazed at the even people when I've been paid to consult with them at high dollar amount, and they don't take notes, and I think we'll do. They have a photographic memory. Or a really gonna remember this. And I think most of the times we do not. So I really appreciate that. Really interesting coming from him as an attorney where he was forced to do that. Is that a habit that you are an advocate of as well. Yeah. It's it's it's a great prompt up and it screwed habit and again to build on that if you are not taika. The more. You can adapt notes to be graphical rather than of vitam where you literally rotting woods down. When you're in the act of writing you'll order treat Puth y to Brian literally is shut down in the process of writing. So if yo drawing it's not as locked so as spoke to fulltime willed memory champ. And he said one of the things if he had a tip for anybody. When you oughta taking notes to Mike them as graphical as possible because graphical image restored Fossa and his break. Hold longa. Now, I think the point that was made is announcing while you're taking notes is really important. But if you literally gonna sit there and scribe the entire conversation. That's probably a good example of unproductive notetaking. I think most people jot down ID's and prompters for themselves. And if it's. Quick if you just write a sentence a strongly encourage it. But if you literally writing down power, graphs and power, graphs and power gross. You you will that will create another foam of distraction. They eh particularly in that legal context that that makes a huge difference. Because I interviewed a a chief Justice in strata. And he he drew a tree while he was listening to testimony. So he would draw the trunk of the argument he would draw the branches on the leaves that he didn't think was so relevant. Any just kinda he said he touched on that about every five minutes over three hours of hearings. So that kinda have three hours than the have a break, and then the have three hours and the night that wrap up for the giants. But this tree diagram actually became quite famous in legal circles about it was his wife listening. So I encourage those techniques because it is about on just became a full. To type too much of a bite him. Otherwise, you will you will kinda miss the point of what you're doing. And. Yeah, when when it comes to having the conversation with with with the husband or the wife. Yeah. Mos- at risk. That's probably why you don't take the notes, but again on them an awesome. You know, some conversations you might. So we would planning a trip to India. We going in couple of weeks and waste out of planning. This about six months ago, gen Y. And. On kind of the big pitch guy when it comes to men gin, and she's the detail person and just need to know what day I'm turning up on. What I am leaving a trust you with rest. She goes. Well, that's not good enough. Because it's at holiday, let's do this together. And it was like shoal Dumont if Tyke some notes because on trying to figure out the locations, and the timing and all of that, and she was cool with that. But, you know, probably talking about our relationship communication stall Husaid cannot diagnose she probably say. Yeah, that's the first problem. You know, you know, this is about what you feel what's in your head. So yeah. Not too great. Just more graphical and grab the ID's in the actions rather than trying to be vitam. Okay. I'm curious on that on a thing. Any also mentioned a memory champion and just for context. I reviewed didn't fully review the book moonwalking with Einstein talked about those memory champions and some of the little events they went to his really enamored by that. Because that is an area that I have not sought to strengthen myself a whole lot. So looking at that. But I'm curious with you talking about the graphics. I hadn't thought about that. The current fad not to d to minimize it at all in marketing right now are the explainer videos, the videos as you're watching somebody's narrating the hand, it's literally drawing that out. So I just again came from a presentation at a lunch meeting doing that. And I find myself very drawn in more. So than just talk. Talking head of a person. And now are so than an audio. So is that a tangible combination of what you're talking to as far as how it works. Okay. Absolutely. Look, explain a videos a really good one day and guide to the visual cortex. Really? Well, and if you look at visual auditory and kinesthetic learning styles. In in the west the majority forty percent of visual in the approach. But why explain videos work is it's a joint construction you see it evolving in front of you. And it creates time across spice in the ID as opposed to presenting the idea is the finished idea shows, you how the ideas constructed so you get blowed into the ID because oh, wow. I saw that when that was a blind place pipe or Anna soul, the idea revolve. So again, if you're in a any Conroy alway have to communicate an idea that could be sows Poston that could be a Aleida of a religious institution that could be politician bringing people along in the construction in the pollution of the ID musette from Eurodif two they arrived D. And that's why those. Blinded videos work, really. Well, goodness. Okay. That's that's interesting. Those are things I'm looking at right now for business purposes. So good to hear that confirmation. Kyle Fillon worth. He says I remember reading Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people as a senior in high school until that point as a natural introvert. I remember struggling socially, most of my young life. I just could not figure out how to gain favorable attention from my peers, then I read that brilliant line from Dale Carnegie, you can win more friends and two months by being genuinely interested in others than you can't in two years trying to get others interested in you, my last semester of high school as well as the rest of my life was completely different from before reading that book. Because from then on the pressure was off. I realized that I didn't have to be creative and flashy and a conversation in order to win people's trust and earn real friendships. All I had to do was encourage others to talk about themselves, and listen, truly. And sincerely, listen. Well, I'm a fan of that book. That was goodness. Nineteen forties nineteen fifties. And yet kick I'm back, even it wasn't really twenties. How far back I think it was not an twelve unless I'm mistaken. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, it's well over one hundred years old now incredible book, and yet here we are today where we touched on this and our main show together where we see there's that wisdom then and yet today, I again, we talked about some of the culture, but I think to some extent you would say it's even more of a lost art that you're trying to help us come back to. Yeah. And I think the point call makes is that. When you just listen, it's it's actually quite relaxing. It's not hard. You give you give you a go up and just you're in them. So a lot of people say, you know, this thing's hot fa- may because you know, I'm distracted on whatever. And if you just let 'em genuinely interested in what they sign I'm the may Tom stops in his life in the and as he said dislike turned around for him really quickly. Greg case study in in the power being interested in others. We'll sue right on that aspect Cullen Martin. He says one lesson. I learned the hard way. Is that truly smart people? Listen, I ask good questions to hear more, and then talk if we were to teach our children how to ask questions with the intent to understand than they would learn to be better listeners. I could save myself a lot of grief if I had known that again hearkening back to our main show together we came to that. Russian of. Yeah. When I see somebody in perceive that they are not only caring. But that they are wise is the word that came to mind for me. They are people who listen they are not so fervent to get their own word in to get their own thought. And they are happy and confident in themselves to sit there and listen to what I have to say. And then as he said to also ask for more, and you again talked about that in the show about that digging. In of of is there any is there any more that you want to say what I think the statement? You said is what did you not say what what did you not say within there that you could still be set or that you'd like to? I'm curious what else you thinking about this? I and the fries will just it comes to me as Colin set a smart. The smart people. Listen, I and ask good questions to hear more to me. It was it literally in my mind rephrase is as a confident person, and who does not want to be a confident person or be perceived as a confident person and in doing so it's not putting on the show trying to have the witty retort, which is probably my inclination. It's to be confident in themselves enough to be willing to listen and ask for more to understand more. It's that's a picture that I want to be Oscar. And the funny thing is you already are it just need to trust self to get the. You're my encouragement coach today, and I will gladly accept that. Thank you, Monica and Fernandez. She says I loved listening to your podcast with Oscar on deep listening. I listen twice so far and shared it. With my husband as a yoga teacher. I often Q my students to listen to the space between the inhale and the exile the skill. This skill is truly in need as we are all surrounded by voices of many these days, take a pause, breathe, and listen, deeply, I shall share Oscars words while teaching yoga, thanks, Kevin. Keep bringing on good guest. In our first show. Again, you talked about the pause being treated as another word is that that right? That also spoke to me, I don't know that I do it in my personal life that well, though, I was taught to do it in business, especially in sales to ask for that sail. Ask for the decision and then pause, and I did it. I saw great effect from that. And my employing it in my personal life as well. Maybe I'm gonna take your encouragement. Maybe I do some I wonder if I could do better. What she says there that space in between breathe exile that is that is anomaly in our culture as I experience it. The point Monica Mike says as you break in and notice what's happening. The full you brave out. What's happening in your chest. What's happening in your lungs? What's happening to die frame? What's happening to your throat and? You'll struggles rail Kevin everybody has I haven't, you know, at as we turn up professionally. We'll bring a version of the cells but to come back to that wisdom in that confidence. It's not to show up differently at home. It's how do we show up consistently and confident enough cells so unnoticed when you were talking about your professional listening. You'll on movement was relaxed, and it was focused and yet when you talked about your home listening. It was rising on movements with foster up into the Rhine, and that's a code that. You know, it's something that you thinking hot about right now. It is it is I'll be candid in that. I have I have a lot of children. My oldest is twenty four. My youngest is now six and I find myself going through times of I think a little fatigue a little a little daddy fatigue a little father. But he goes, I'm still fielding those questions. I'm still hearing the story of the long drawn out story of the game. They're playing or the story they're riding, which is is brilliant. But I'm aware of my own feelings of fatigue in there. So I'm revisiting that again, as a father have a son who turns thirteen today and this weekend is a special time. We'll take together about that transition to manhood, and so I'm thinking again about the acuteness of my example, as a father and always looking at my marriage. So again, that's why the moment I heard the message of your book. I thought I need it. I'm betting my audience does but I need it. So I'm going to get free. Council right here, which I am and I'm taking to heart. I really love your -tentivness even here. And folks, we always use zoom so Oscar or looking at each other, and I m under the microscope of being seen for how I appreciate that. Because I become unaware a lot of times of my behavior, my tendencies my habits when I'm speaking. And when I am listening as well, which that point we did talk about that in the first show about the aspect just being aware of being self aware. So that I guess that word confidence is is one that comes to the surface for me. And the other is being self aware. I will have those moments of running off and not being there, and then I'll rein myself back in. And I'm sure that's very obvious. Can I come back to the six year old story for a moment? Please. I'm trying to visualize way. You are you thinking about that story? So where were you when you're listening to that story will you in your home driving back from zoom? I was at home in living room in the living room and you'll both sitting down simul level. Oh, you a standing up listening to the story? And he was looking up at you in that visual. I was I was eye-to-eye is sitting there. Yeah. Gripe Nankai because for a lot of who toll. The tip is simply bring the child up to your level, you come down to the level, and the sinus true if you calling to speak to the children, this is a little bit hotter to do if you're in a public environment. But I'd still encourage it bring you odd level down to the as when you're coaling, even if you Feis timing doing what's video something like that. It will it will bring you perspective into a listening perspective rather than you'll perspective. Coon is that is that is interesting. And when you said the word calling back in my home, I had the vision to of calling out to my children something calling everybody time for dinner time for what? And out of the issue of respect over the past few months now, I have been endeavouring to stop what I'm doing which is often cooking and to run upstairs or run into the other room or wherever and find them and address them in a face to face conversation and say, hey, guys, can you wrap up and come on? And instead of yelling in just trying to instill that spirit of respect. I want them to give to me to others as well. But there's been a very very tangible vary acute aspect and so years two of getting on. On their level. I'm grateful that my mind I was I'd I've often it is down especially to my little and it takes just a moment. It's good exercise squat down there. Looking at the I I I will retain that Oscar and while you're on the topic of the male of lucky enough to interview couple of parenting experts because I get off a lot about Harry, we teach our kids hat, listen. But it's not the point of what I'm gonna mention Justin. Dr Justin Colson mentioned to me that in that food preparation example that you use that I'm encouraged one of one of the older children to cook. With you. It creates go right time with particularly full. Attain is miles. If they'd distracted that listen Sunday, given tusk to do so imagine chopping up vegetables or or cooking something with you. You know in awed contact and that that creates a really good listening environment for them. But his point was the classic. You've described one of the classic situations way trying to round up the family to eight and he said if a parent does that it's like, we'll get the, but he said recruit one of the other children to do it. And I don't with a completely different enthusiasm in you'll see the dynamic Chines when the kids off the other one so in you'll might be just off the folks wanted and get them to tag the next and make a game out of it is was he's pulling my family, really appreciates cooking together on having everybody come in. Which is not always my propel. City. I come home at the end of the day. I've often gotten most of my words out already, and I can go in the kitchen and cook and put some music on and have a little bit of solitude while they're doing their things. But they so enjoy your coming in. That's interesting though, I have not thought about that dynamic as they're sitting there cutting something up that I've given their we're generally talking or they'll even be listening to the music that I'm playing we'll talk about the music. We're very musically oriented family as well. Right. I need to harness that more. I had not I had not realized that something else. I wanted to ask you about well use this this comment to lead into Charlotte to mayo. She says I always intend on being a great listener. Although I find that guiding a stalled conversation, I am sometimes more verbose and consulting when a client or prospect is being interviewed and has has lost for words, I pay attention to the gaps and value the skin return method instead of coloring in the areas of emptiness around even the most open ended question, you can truly never know. What surprises maybe revealed when you listen to even the silence. That the awkwardness of that I struggle with I struggle with people who are not very verbal and the conversations that are in the tendency to try to fill that in because of awkwardness I'm just glad she brought that up speak to that one. Because I think that's one that e those who do have an intention -ality about speaking about listening. They're still those moments where it's a toss up of how do you? I like her her visual there of coloring in the areas of emptiness, do you seek to do that. Do you? Let the silence go. I think just be playful with silence at some. A mentioned that in the silence is a sign of wisdom and Powell quite often. If you're in Japan career, China the post and speaking the lace stole the one with the longest polls is actually the one with the most power aurthority in in a situation of a an organizational context such as a business. It's kind not to know. Because if found fixes too quick, which generally means, it's probably not the right one. You gonna have to re visit the conversation Ray, quote, redo the work and the cost of that is much higher. Then if you just ply with polls in in my consulting, look a lot of the tons on working with these people who incredibly gifted brilliant minds of wick with people who deal with really complex situations and. Bring a bring topic that this struggling with. And I'll just say can we just sit with not knowing for a moment. And just watch. What it's like for us. Not to know. Because that's a human experience that we made to notice too. And notice patents about how often don't we know what of the patents when we done and again with the example, he was Charlotte. Sounds like a patent for her. It sounds like, you know, if you turn to the page about the shrewd listening would say a photo, Charlotte. They trying to color in the gaps and fish Rudy's for people who love to solve and fill in the silence just count to three one thousand to one thousand three one thousand. The openness is usually what you'll bringing rather than what they bringing again pit bulls got nine hundred woods minutes. Stuck in a head? I've only got one hundred fifty woods like get out a minute. And sometimes that polls that oakwood silences them just trying to line up eight hundred woods to own a you and communicate that affectively in sync Ling. Bassano is a platform. Thus so many solutions yet, we think silence is the segue for us to talk. So. Yeah, just embrace. It an dumb be good with a watch notice it and have fun with a. Cola. Dow said a couple of times. Hey, I know this feels awkward, but I think it's productive and sometimes people giggle and sometimes people just not in Cape. Silence going, but you know, holding that tension, if you're a consultant, south Poston, new somebody from profession, a lawyer or accountant or an architect or something like that. Think about what's joyful in this moment to because it's a moment of co creation. It's just a moment of unconscious nonverbal cook creation. You are that right there. I in a previous business. Held about fifteen live events where I. Rented out a camp in essence and had people. Come there. Stay there and initially I felt so beholden to provide so much value that I had it packed from seven AM in the morning till nine o'clock at night and beyond and finally had somebody not confront me as to offer up some constructive criticism in love said one you bring us out here to the rocky mountains in this beautiful place. And we don't get to experience it and to give so much great information. But there's not enough time to reflect on that and your discussion. Right. There of silence. The time to digest it to reflect on that that we tend not to maybe thinking right now envisioning brainstorming sessions that I've had with brilliant people. But it's generally a continual flow of discussion and putting things up on the wall and. Not time to reflect I ended up doing that afterwards. I have to do that in the evening. The next day. I have to reflect try to capture it and reflect. And would we have more value in building in that time of silence and reflection right then and there. I might try that Oscar. Let me create two perspectives. One's a campfire and once the process of composing music. Many of us have been blessed enough to have the opportunity to capitol. Visit a location way. A great day. Asana set the campfire is going. But the connection this created and the memory of that campfire. On. Is the subconscious connection of all of staring at the flames at the same time and rarely do we sail? The many moments of reflection yet a lot of us will continually reflect one of the best Tom's. We spent was the Tom around the campfire. And it's kinda it's a fun connection actually had a makes moles in Colorado, Colorado around the cat fi with Chuck and Kathy. And you know, I just flashed back to that making that in that moment, but most of that three four hours that we spend. Yeah. That was talking going on probably what was as much Sahlins and just enjoying the blue flick is in the red and the yellows and the whites and the CIA calls an old as amazing Khalas that creates a wife for us to enjoy the silence. That's one aspect of silence than talking to people who create music from scratch with a blank pace. Pipo? One of the things that struck me went on to them. They say it's the gaps. Way in between where the instruments in the voices on. That's as important to musical composition. It's the silence. That's between the notes that gives the listener Tom to polls and fully he old notes, and then help them Mike meaning from that. Is something that I have to be very conscious off in the composition of music as well. So these things that connect to some motionlessly the connect us memorably the connectedness with meaning they things often a wrapped in silence. They're more comments, and we can get through. I'm going to stop us there because I feel like you have given us through these shows not only an introductory to listening. But you've given us some some graduate level insertions as well. I am such an advocate of what you're doing Oscar. I appreciate your own skill set with the listening. It is an incredible example to me, and I am continually honored to be the messenger to bring this to our audience and eager to do what I can all I can to help bring you to as many audiences as possible. I think this is a. Life altering as you know message and thank you for giving us your time for the third time on this show won't be the last either we need to hear this continually and go deeper and are listening of your message. Oscar, thank you. Thanks for listening. Friends. Thank you as always to everyone who shared their candid comments to our question for today. It's a gift to all of us host and listeners alike. Again, a highly recommend getting Oscars book. Deep listening from his website at Oscar Trimboli T R, I M B O L I dot com and give him a gift in return for his guidance and sharing by leaving review in items for the Ziglar show and mentioned Oscar and this show specifically affiliate on what's coming up next after I share some great resources. Knowing how to code is becoming essential in today's job market. But where do you start? So try grasshopper the coating app for beginners. It's built by Google engineers, and it's completely free with fun. Five minute puzzles, you can turn your downtime into learning. A new and useful skill when you graduate. You'll have the fundamental programming skills. You need for your next step as a coder. So go to grasshopper dot codes slash Ziglar to download and get started today. Coming up next and show. Six five seven is being mentally tough healthy habit for success. This is our habits show where we walk through the seven spokes in the Ziglar wheel of life. And here the healthy habits of our guests, which this time is Allan Stein. High performance coach known for his work with pro basketball players and author of the book raise your game and show six five five we dug into his message and really gave a lot of focus on the massive value in assessing of self awareness. Yes. Even if you're a pro basketball player on the court on that note, reviewing his healthy habits was just profound intrigued with Allen's commentary on mental toughness, and the reality that all we can controls our attitude and effort, and that goes, again, even for those NBA pro athletes, well, folks till then thanks for being with us today and look forward to walking with you as we inspire. There are true performance together in the next show.