Creation Science, NAR and a Roman Catholic debates baptism
Polytechnic? And you report Clark of the Christian punk. All right. This is a politics live, and we are live. Glad to have you all here with us. We are here another week. But we do not have the slick one. Which means we're gonna have a lot more fun. No. We have a doctor in the house, quite literally a doctor. Well, specifically, a dentist. Yeah. I'm not a real doctor. Yeah. Pl say, you're not a real doctor. This is Dr Anthony semestral from striving for turn ity, and we're gonna have some fun talking to main topics tonight which pregnant get into some others. We're planning to talk about creation science, which happens to be his expertise. And the main thing he ends of speaking about for striving for Turney. But we're also gonna talk about something else, which is kind of his favourite love. I think would it be fair to say you have a love hate relationship with the new apostolic reformation. Yeah. The NRA and Catholics for whatever reason are just always on my radar. All right. Everyone around here is either one of them. So Mets is is trying to pack up his house for folks who have been following along with us. Matt is trying to pack up in. He's getting believe it's this week. The corporates come in the paint goes up, and he's trying to get everything out of the house to be able to do that. They're still trying to figure out how to get to move. They're trying to get for folks who have been following, you know, that his wife is basically not very mobile, and so they needed to get an RV to travel down to they have to get that first. They also have to kind of borrowing someone else's is what they're looking to do because they can't afford around one. But they're looking to do that. And they found out something interesting with their health insurance. They discovered that if they move right now, the health insurance that they've already paid the deductible in full starts all over and they get to pay the deductible all over again. Yet, they get really high deductible, and that's going to be hard. So they're trying to figure out win would be the right time to move. This move may get put off a little bit. We're they're trying to figure this out. So there is someone in the chat named Paul Mars, Paul. Make sure you go to and fro else go to apologetic live dot com. And there is a link to join us from there. There's a reason to ask him Paul to join us because we're gonna be talking about topic the new apostolic reformation or in a are for short, and he had some questions on that. And so we're gonna talk about that actually as kind of amazed Anthony that in the politics live Facebook group, I asked folks what it is. They they wanted to talk about tonight had some, you know, basically just trying to get some some topics and new episode reformation came in a lot of people want to talk about that. We did have one that. Maybe it's up your alley. You know, Steve Ludd with really wanted to talk about big foot and Neville him. And flying demon babies now, I guess that's based out of Genesis six with the whole thing of Neff Elim. So I guess maybe he wants you to answer. I from what I. What they're doing that show without Franken. I mean, that's Franks term. So well, the okay, the flying demon babies is Frank. That's that's all Frank Frank Melissa's who are speaking of. But I guess he dropped the picture in there. And I guess that had some video that he did call big foot and Neff Elim, total depravity, and covenant theology. So I guess those topics that came up on his radio show at one of the times. And I guess met was saying that maybe the Bigfoot or Netflix. I don't know. I century said that neither one of us are capable of answering anything about Bigfoot or flying demon babies because neither one of us believed that they exist. So let me start. I want to ask you some questions first about creation science, and then we'll move over into discussing Eeyore because that's going to be a longer top talk for the folks who are in the room. If you have questions just give give a shout on the side chat there to let me know that you have a question. So that we can add you in but anti real quick for folks. There's a big there's lots of debate on the issue of evolution the issue of creation science on. My rap report podcast your every once in a while. I try to go over different different issues of logic. I gave one recently called confirmation bias. You're familiar with that. I believe right. Okay. I gave the example of how it's used with Evelyn. Could you could you give explain walks plan confirmation by then I'll ask you to give how we see this workout when we talked to people about evolution confirmation. Bias is basically the idea when you only accept evidence or supporting arguments that support a conclusion that you hold to another words you hold to a conclusion. And if evidence comes in that supports that conclusion, you accept it. If it doesn't accept the conclusion you reject the evidence that's called confirmation bias, you have a bias toward something already confirm. Anthony, how do we see this play out when it comes to have Aleutian? Oh, easy. You talked to Neville Sionist, and they will say all science points to Evelyn. And and then they start rattling off certain things. So the reality is is that there's lots of good science out there, the ignore most of it. And if any science that we bring up says, wait a minute. This is where evolution has problems. Revolution can happen. That's what they reject. And then they go back to the us. Fallen other logical fallacies such as pointing to people like me, not being real doctors. And have no thorny to speak on a subject, the they will also point to the myriad of scientists. Would they would call the myriad scientists out there? Like, I admit do the majority of scientists by Tivoli Shen. Seemingly? So I will also say though, that there's many more scientists that that are secular. They are they hate God. But they still realize the big big problems with volition. And so it's interesting. What's actually out there is now a is not what's being taught in secular schools. That's racy this confirmation bias coming out. It's really with the science of what they reject. All right and do throughout the show is whenever we get anyone that gives a super chat by if you want to super chat on the bottom of your in the on YouTube. There's a little dollar sign click that and you can donate the money goes to carve dot org, and so Jason manning gave two dollars and said God bless so anyone that does that we give shout outs too. But sets you give a super chat and John isn't chatting away in their in their. He doesn't wanna come in here. John thinks wants to to his thing that he wanted to talk about. Was I gotta look it up. Now, something about being addicted. He wants he wants topic bible coveting a serious issue among striving for Turney leadership. Anthony, do you cut it other people's bibles? You know? I I saw that. And and I responded to John actually, I mean, I got I John I got this very nice goat's skin ESV. I'm not coveting years. John. It's kind of like if there's a piece of food on somebody's plate that you really want you lick it real quick. And then they won't eat it. You just do that to Andrews bible, and he'll give it to, you know, say I get another one right here that that someone bought for me, another goats. So I don't need your goat's skin. I don't need to read one John John John got a red goat's skin bible, and he I just like taking it from. But so real quick get back to creation science so with creation science. You like some bibles. I can pull out. It's so okay. The argument people will make is well there several argument. One people make the argument that anything that Chretien. Scientists do hasn't been done through pure review or double blind. Studies. Is that true? And how much does that actually matter? So here's another issue of confirmation bias. They will make the claim that we don't have peer reviewed science journals. And we say look at all these journals peer reviewed look at all these articles that are peer reviewed some of which appear viewed in secular journals, and they reject it. They won't read any of the journal so ICR at creation dot com. A I g they all put out journals. Good heavy research technical journals done with actual PHD scientists. And these things don't get looked at. So we have plenty of peer reviewed journals peer reviewed articles in those journals. They they just again, they reject everything. Systematically, if it doesn't if it doesn't fit with our world view, it's gone. They don't think about it. And that's sort of what Ben Stein was trying to get across in that movie. He did expelled, smells expose. Spelled. And what do they do with that? They're like, oh, well that is in serious. You know that? If it doesn't start with the conclusion they want. They just reject it and say, well, that's that doesn't count. So here's what's crazy, though there if you go into certain secular scientific journals, you can find you can find articles and in research, where they show we know people, you know, guys that do the research together speaking among themselves within the article talking about how they can't see how things like evolution works. There's plenty of there's plenty journal articles. They know that they're they're I don't even want. Call theory is not a theory, but their hypothesis is broken when they know that they don't have a mechanism in terms of the mutation issue. It's it's the one thing I explained the book, it's the one thing that when as you've heard me teach multiple times of thing about mutations is best the Lynch pin revolution. And they know they don't have it. Same thing goes for the big bang theory. It's the reason why people probably don't know this. But the reason why the Higgs bows on particle was. So so so important for them to find. A few years ago in why they had all kinds of excitement for what they thought was a Higgs boson particle is because in the big bang dilemma, it brings up something called horizon problem. So maybe I'll explain that here for a moment. I just heard this on Easter Sunday as I was witnessing to my father in law, and and brother-in-law. So Julia was gracious enough to walk away and take the rest of the family with her and it left me with with them for for several several hours. And. We had some interesting talk. So the brother-in-law who thought he's been really smart says, hey, have you ever looking at telescope before? I go, of course. Well, don't you think that we can see billions of light years away? And I said I'll we gotta break for this. Are we seeing? Well, we're we're saying it, but I didn't show him in. He wants to show here. What we'll put them on camera. He can show his. Now, he's not putting his Cameron. But but he needs to get faster internet, so people can actually see something than but he's showing a red Schuyler bible. Yeah. It's pretty yes. And he thinks coveting that bible. But the reality is the reality is we paid for that by I could've bought two. As he rose. I think he was just looking that bible. That's how it works. He's. Okay. So let me let let folks in the background here. Okay. John John, John one this bible at a contest that we're having and the he so he got he wins the bible, he brings it to a conference that we're at in out of Washington, and he brought it I took his bible. And hit it on him. So he couldn't find this bible. And so ever since then. It's been the nice that you actually put me in Tokyo. Hey it worked. He did. I sacrificed my. Yeah. Well, thanks. Still most good to just. Right. You gotta work on your internet there. 'cause it's kind of you may have to. I'm getting dizzy looking at it. Yeah. All right. So so first off you're mentioning the particle, and I don't even know how many folks I mean people who study as well. No, you know, the importance of this. So could you back up one second? I explain the the particle. What's going on over at earn? What they're trying to do. And then let's get into the horizon problem. So basically, it's a it's a tiny tiny tiny particle now. Let's talk about the rise problem. I backtrack to this. And it'll make sense here. So this this is the horizon problem when my brother-in-law questioned me and asked me while you look your telescope, right? Don't you think we're seeing six billion light years because of the thought that if something is six billion light years away that it takes six billion years fat light to travel before enters the telescope, enter Orion. We see it. And and so therefore the universe must be. Billions of years old. And I said, well, you know, here's the problem is that we don't actually know the speed of light. Is sounds crazy. Right. Except that anytime you read in the textbook the speed of light. It's the average speed of light. It's not the speed of light. We don't actually know the one way the one directional way speed of light. And Jason Lisle has has some good research on this or good thoughts ish say behind this. And some of the math behind it. He's several ideas as to how light would travel faster than what we think to be the speed of light today in one direction in one direction because when you said, the average, you know, when you said, the average it's really when we measure light, we can only measure a round trip, we can measure a light beam hitting Amir returning returning at photons, boom in back, Iraq and measure that time we know the distance there. We have an average speed of light. We don't know. And we suspect it could be faster one way. Some guys think it could actually be instantaneous one way. And then you see the lag on the way back. So who knows who knows what the answer is. But the thing is is that we as creationist get pointed at by the secularist who say that. We've got the issue because we believe if the earthly success years old than the light must travel faster than the speed of light. Ha ha ha jokes on you type of deal, and we say, well, wait a minute. You've got a problem too. 'cause within the big bang theory. You also have to assume that the speed of light is a whole lot faster than what we have is the average speed of light today. And this is what I mean. So if we took in a Cup of coffee that was piping hot and you put nice couple ice cubes in the top. Let's assume that it was enough ice cubes that that when they melted and mixed together with a coffee. It would bring it down to an average temperature that you drink it in not Skuld yourself. Okay. That's our assumption. Now, let's say you drop those two ice cubes in and the moment the last ice cube melts you drink it. What happens you're going to burn yourself still? And the reason why is because there's not enough time that has passed to allow the heat transfer in that Cup of coffee, you'll end up having colder coffee on top hotter. Coffee in the bottom. The way that we get around this problem as we stirred up, right? And so that's how you you mix together in. It's in good will the Reisen problem says this when they've tested different areas of the universe. Obviously not right next to his stock. We're talking in the vast amounts of space 'cause most of the universe's space as we test different areas of space. We found that the temperature is very very uniform. We're talking ten to the negative fifth Kelvin so a fraction of a degree. The problem is for the secularists is that not enough light from stars has transferred back and forth across the universe to make what should have been hot and cold spots uniform temperature because according to the big bang. Four stars to formed got hot spots for planets to cool down for the vast amount of space to be really cold. You would have had right right from the get-go. The big bang these hot and cold spots having to appear those hot and cold spots. There is not enough time in their big bang model of thirteen to fourteen billion years is not enough time for light to transfer which is heat for it to transfer enough to be able to make the uniform temperature that we see university. That's the issue. It's a secularist. No this problem. Call the Reisen problem for us as creches when I do training on creation. I don't worry about the three different theories that Jason Lisle has two different theories of Danny Faulkner has the other half a dozen theories that are out there as to how can travel faster than the speed of light all Zeiss as look you seculars heavy exact same problem. We do in horizon problem. Now, the Higgs bows on. Particle? They fear is that if you had enough of these Higgs bows on particles right from the get-go. It would have accounted for a lot more mass. And they could have accounted for hot and cold spots. That would have dissipated a lot faster. I guess is easiest way to say it. So it's just a way that they could have tried to tweak their model. And that's that's really about it. And I think we're seeing a bunch of stuff coming up. Now, I actually have some questions from visit who I haven't talked to you in quite some time. All right. Well, let's let's bring him in. I thought you were talking about the the other Chet. But Vincent, I brought you in. I don't know if there's another chat rec- the one here on the screen. Yeah. There's one on YouTube. I'm not that fancy really more comments towards some of this. Interesting topic for sure can y'all hear me, by the way. Yep. All I never know. Just the whole. Subject of the speed of light and Hal it's measured in. Really courage to look at some of the earlier experiments that really led Einstein to come up with a stereo relatively. It's called the michelson-morley experiments where they were trying to trying to measure the speed of light. And it led to some very interesting results. And it's what really propelled Einstein to come up with stare relativity. Because they couldn't. They couldn't even come close to quantifying the the speed of light to what they thought it would be. And so they had to use all these mathematical equations to to try and normalize it is it it's interesting topic. If you look into it really further, the michelson-morley experiments, Dave multiple towns, and the results are always with not what they scientific community expected. So it's tough. And like other things they don't expect. They don't talk about either. I mean, really the whole reason for the relativity theory, and transforms is because in order to maintain the status quo assign scientific community when all it all it is to to to keep what they already think perceived to be the truth to you know, to maintain it as their truth will that's the confirmation bias again. I mean, it really is. Right. Because I if if their argument is that this is what all scientists believe. And then we see it. There's some good science on the other side that presents a problem. I don't know if anyone here has watched this video, but there's a video out there. I could probably find it in put up a link at some point here. But there's a there's a video of a of a guy who. He's seemed very sincere. He's a he's a secular. I think it was an anthropologist. He was going back and finding bones of what he believed to be one of one of the intermediate species between Bigfoot we're back on Bigfoot like fig, right? Yeah. Finding babies so actually find deeming babies, I think are a mixed between pterodactyls and humans. Will put it is. We'll have to tell Franken. Now, you got me forgetting what I was talking about. Like, we were paying attention. Probably not. Oh, that's great. Okay. Visit do you do you? Remember what he was saying? But we'll see if anyone was actually paying attention. It was finding bones of something. He was hoping it was going to pick up. So in this. A long day for me. So in these in his drawers, he pulls out a drawer of hips the pelvis, and he is talking about how he knows this to be the pelvis of of an intermediate species between us and a chimpanzee and he said, but this looks way to apelike. So as he studied the pelvis, he saw some areas that he thought that you know. Well, let's just say this. He made an assumption that they hips somehow got crushed. So this whatever eight died. Bones, laying there it gets crushed right before gets fossilized and enduring the fossils ation process. It reattached itself refused. And the problem is is that this set of bone that they knew to be intimate species. But looked way to ape like he knew that that this bone this pelvis must have refused to make look more apelike. Then we watch him for the next five ten minutes taking a demo as our dreamt Ling hips. And then and then gluing the pieces back together into what he believes to be the intermediate. I know you've seen this Andress. You shaking your head? There's if you haven't all seen this find link put it up, you gotta watch this. But it is the ultimate in confirmation of. I I saw that on. I think it was discovery if I'm correct PBS. And so this this, and it was amazing. I watched because I'm just like, wait a minute. How? Do you know like the they're taking a pelvis? It doesn't have any breaks in it assuming it must have been this cracking it like like, oh, let's carve this part out this part out now. Oh, look now, it looks like, you know, the missing link. I think Todd freeloaded Saint showed same video on wretched. Once when you said, he did the same thing. I thought you meant that he actually took a bone. No. So so, yeah, I mean, this is the thing. I think it's so interesting when we get all these challenges for creation because. There's so much of the evidence that they ignore. Because they just can't deal with it. So let's let's go onto one of the questions that we did get someone wanted asked here in the in the Facebook group since we are mentioning Frank malls earlier, Eric man, Seaney had asked the question. I just got to see you're laughing because you you you, you know, Eric Mancini's. And so he was asking about the Loch Ness monster, and which one eats more fishy said Loch Ness, monster or Frank mullah's who eats more fish, Anthony. What say you, actually, I said Frank eight the Loch Ness monster. Because it's a fish. Oh, that's great. Basically Frank likes to eat a lot of sushi, modify and duck and doc he does like duck. Yes. So I don't know. I see that Cody came in here. I don't know if Cody has any questions about creation it's flipping through while you're doing that us flipping through the comments as two topics people on a talked about they wanted to ask if we one of them was do we believe in global warming? Yes. And I actually believe it or not I believe it conditionally. So what happens is if you're northern hemisphere in April may time, we see the temperature's rising. We got some pretty nice global warming. And then and then it turns into global cooling when September and October roles. Well, actually, okay climate change. Well, I answered that. I do. I mean, I do believe in global warming Anglo cooling. I it's a cycle. But here's the thing. Here's the thing that when we come to the issue, and by the way, folks, have you noticed it used to be global warming? And now you're not allowed to use that term and it was climate change. Now, you're not allowed to use that term, and it's extreme weather. When I was growing up we were going into another ice age. The the reason being is you have a cyclical cycle where warms and cools. Now. The irony is when we're going into an ice age this solution that they had was government control. When we went into go, go global warming. The solution was government control the government can't control either one of these extremes. What they do is. They say, okay, let's look at let's do some research and studies on global warming, and what the causes are. So we know that there's things of solar flares basically flares come off of the sun come toward the the earth. And even it's amazing because when these flares come the blow out our our satellites, and there's so, but that they go we're we're gonna take that out that doesn't affect anything. So they remove solar flares the earth actually will. Change its magnetic force. The magnetic field changes. We can't look at that. There's the solar storms. Nope. We can look at that volcanoes. We can look at that. A centrally what they do is remove everything except human beings. And then say man is creating global warming. Yeah. There's there's research out there now. So okay does a greenhouse effect could it potentially exists? Carbon dioxide. It potentially could the issue. I have I don't think I don't think that actually happens. I I believe what you think Andrews that that cycles within not only the earth, but the sign rotation of the planets in the solar system, how we rotate in the Milky Way. Galaxy I think there's a whole host of issues that can play a role in terms of very minor fluctuations in in temperatures. The what the biggest thing of of the research. They've hidden. That bugs me is. When you look at the carbon dioxide that is in carbon monoxide that's put up into the atmosphere. Do you know what the largest amount of it is from? We're talking like more than ninety nine point nine percent of all carbon dioxide emissions cows, right? Isn't it? Now, it's Volkmann earthquakes, especially ones that are in the ocean. I wait, no. Al Gore told us it was cow fluctuation. When cows pass gas come on he was same guy that talked about preserving energy. And then we found out he had a ten thousand dollars a month electric Bill. Well, he told us that the earth was going to be gone like was it seven years ago? Now that we're supposed to be extinct because but joined the jobs witnesses. But you know, when you you look at it there is I mean, there was some studies that were done to show that one volcano does more damage to the ozone layer than two atomic bombs dropped in Japan. I mean, if we tried to destroy the environment. I don't think we could the natural processes of volcanoes do more damage supposedly if you can call it damage, but do more damage than us dropping atomic bombs. So not saying we should be. I mean, one of the things that both you, and I hold to is that we are as Christians we do believe God gave us stewardship over the we should care for. We shouldn't be trying to do things that would damage the atmosphere and things like that. But the thinking that we could actually do something that could destroy this planet. When you look at what the planet's doing to it self because that's part of the curse. This is part of what we see is the result of the fall, you see this in Romans chapter eight the entire universes. Groaning recruitment too. Yeah. Because of the fall because of what happened with Adam and eve, there was a curse that are affected the whole universe. The entire universes. Groaning. That's what we see. And if the earth hasn't destroyed itself now with all the volcano activity. It's head. We're not gonna do much not not saying we should try to take care of it. But we have a responsibility. Yeah. Responsibility to appoint. Right. I mean, you're not going to affect a human life based off of. And I mean, we have to be aware of the fact that there is a political agenda behind it as well. I mean, there is an agenda behind all these things that have been attempting to create a, you know, basically to take open markets in close them and create more of a socialistic mindset. They've been trying a lot of different things to do to do that. And global warming didn't work like they hoped, but L G T B Q has I mean, that's really been helping in creating a worldwide socialistic thinking, but yeah, I think it's just government control. That's all they want. Oh, absolutely. The will. So as we're talking about the LG BT Q movement. This might be a good time to bring up equip, Ohio. Right. So and actually ended you wanna talk about for moment. I've got to go watch Anthony run home from. Okay. All right. Sure. He puts me on the spot. So so. A quip Ohio is going to be June. First in Cleveland, Ohio at homestead falls Baptist church. If you're where we've held the previous ones and June. First the doors are going to open eight o'clock eight AM this one is going to be different than we've done the past because it's going to be more of a mini conference. So it's going to run until just before noon and then around noon to six o'clock, we're gonna have more time aside for the evangelism. And the reason that Anthony was saying to the TV Q is because there will be a gay pride festival. And that's one of the reasons we're gonna try to go a little bit earlier is to be able to go and do some outreach there while there's a lot of people at at the parade. We don't go into the parade though need to the speakers for this though are going to be Dr Anthony Vescio, Michael Coggan, and the pastor Austin Hessler, if you've been to our other Ohio conferences, you should know those names. And so June first doors open, eight o'clock at OEMs fell own stead falls Baptist church. If you want to get more information about that just Email info at striving for eternity dot ORG info at striving for eternity dot O, R G. And so that would be good play a good place to go get trained up. If you want to get trained to do some evangelism. Now, I'm just trying to look at some of the comments that we had from our Facebook group because there was some of it was another one I wanted to address and have to look, but if oaks want to join in here ask any questions giving challenges could apologize live dot com. There is a link there to join and I'm going to add in see who's I I think Chris was I. Okay. So Chris I. Added you if you want yourself, and I don't know if you have any questions for us tonight. Not a specific. Well, I did have a question for for Dr celestial. I wanted to end. I I'm pretty sure I know where he is. Because he talked about the the six thousand years old now I'm just wondering if that's something that we should affirm source younger creations concerned in if that's what Genesis wanted to attend. Well, I will answer for Dr Anthony vessel because I will give a better answer than he could. And the best part is now that he's back. He doesn't know the question. He just gets to hear the answer. Flying demon maybes? You know, at some point we're gonna have to explain this flying demon babies of Franks, Franks gotta get on Frankel have to get on. All right. So here's the question was Anthony, do we must we well should we affirm young earth creation? Now, I think you, and I have a little bit of a different view. I I would say we should but not must. I I'm a little bit. I'm not as hard line. I would say maybe as as Anthony, I think that there are folks who may think that scripture allows for an older earth, and they have reasons from scripture, but I don't think it's I just don't think the very good arguments. However, I don't say that we shouldn't call them brothers. I don't think that they're somehow giving up the bible. What say you Anthony? Heretics? No in all seriousness. The issue that I that I have is. When we look at the bible. The only reason why you get millions to billions of years is from secular textbooks. You don't read the bible and come up, the millions of billions of years, it is it is strictly something is taking from secular science and people do their best to import it into the bible. That's an issue. I have it's it's very different than many other conversations, you know, Andrew and Matt different the algae a number of areas. You guys can have good talks about that debates that people enjoy respectful to Bates, and you guys can both walk away thinking either. You're right. The other one's wrong. No. I'm always, right. Yeah. But you respect each other. Because you guys know that both you star was, you know, that's that's your starting point. And the starting point of somebody who looks at an older is not scripture. When we listen to the arguments of Hugh Ross and some of these other guys who are are professing Christians. They are proponents of of evolution and old age. They never have scriptural arguments that are sound, and they don't they have no places where they can stick the millions of billions of years in other than actually just sticking it in somewhere. Well, I think you know, there are some who you be familiar with, you know, the the whole idea that the Justice went to is more of a polemical type of argument they're going to approach it from scripture. But the folks that whole to that also don't always take a position on whether it's old or young are they can go either way they don't make a deal that. So there are some folks who try to make an argument from scripture not just from science that allows for now I'm gonna I'm gonna play the advocate here. I think that the way they will argue is that they're looking at scripture and looking at what they see in the world, and we do this as well. Even if you take a young earth, we're going to have people that are going to take what we see in scripture compared to the evidence that we see we see Fussell's all over the the. All over the earth buried in rock layer. We would say that's no is flood because we see knows flood in the scriptures. We see the evidence we expect to see in a flood, and we say well there, we're look we're doing the same thing as what they're gonna say that with a young earth position. Yeah. Well, okay. So fossils brings up a whole different story. The thing is we can go through the bible and with Adam and eve being created on the sixth day, we can Adam genealogies, we can take the stork accounts. And we come up with years. We don't come up with with millions to billions of years. Yes. The arguments now going to be that you could skip generations in there. And that's not accounted for maybe maybe when you say so and so got so and so there was actually three four five generations missing in there. Yeah. Of course in in Jude it verifies e- knock being the seventh from Adam. So so there's people who make that argument. But yet we can we can point to do there. And and that lines up perfectly. Maybe they did it after Jude. Maybe that practice only started or not after after you knock maybe it was the the, you know, after knock there's like eight generations missing, you know. Yeah. And I, and I suppose people can come up with all kinds of things. But again, what is their starting point? How does an idea of millions to billions of years even arrive into the brain? If you're reading the bible at face value. That's that's the first issue that I have. Here's a second issue though. And this is going to be the the to me, it's it's the dagger for. All of this. We look at we just celebrated Christ's death burial resurrection. We just celebrated what we see is the core of the gospel. I cringe fifteen versus three and four. What is the point of Jesus dying? I make the argument of book. Right. What is the point of in what book in my book on ears the kinds? Well, you say the book like every like everybody knows book. I mean. I mean, look do you have a copy of the book to put on display like I do over here. Mine, you know, now, he's gotta go get it. Now, I will say this. I'm gonna we're gonna we're gonna rep- up creation. I wanna get to any or and I there's a couple of people in here allies here and also traditional Catholic. And I think that it'd be fun to have you and traditional Catholic have a nice conversation. We should only I thought then. So here here's the the biggest problem with with believing in an older is that you have to presuppose death before Sinn. You look at the fossil record that you brought up, and it's the fossil record is either a record of death over billions of years, or it's a record of death that happened in middle one fell swoop over the period of body year during those flood why this is important is because when did death enter into the creation. Is death. The result of sin as we read in Genesis two. As as what God tells Adam will be the result of sin. Do we believe God there? And then when we read in Genesis three we see immediate spiritual death and the promise of future, physical death. This is what the bible teaches is that death entered in creation through Adam his sin. Not before. We're we we've got really good genealogies, Adam and eve being real people. We you could not have had you cannot have had the death before Adam and eve, and here's a rally enter you brought up the issue of geologists before they're older people. Don't argue which analogies they make there's some guys. I mean, John Whitcomb. One of the guys wrote the Genesis flood with Henry Morris who I had a pleasure to meet just six months ago in his ninety ninety two years old he argues he believes that that there's some genealogies missing which would push it up to in the neighborhood of nine to ten thousand years of age of the earth. Not millions of years whenever you see the millions of. Years entered into scripture there, either entering it between Genesis one one in one to which goes by number of of theories or gap theory, ruin reconstruction Lucifer's fly there's all kinds of them or they do as days of creation are our old ages. But what what they don't ever attempt to to change is the geological record. So I'm confident to say if we look at Adam and eve, whether I believe it's about six thousand years, let's give them ten. Let's give them twenty thousand years. I don't care the point is that if death started because of enemy said. That means that before then there was no death of humans nor animals. Why do we think this? We read in Genesis one that the food that was given to humans was only plants they were vegetarian what was the food given to animals, we read Genesis one guess what they were also vegetarian. There was no death in that original creation guide every every day day to said that his creation was good at the end of his days of creation at the end of day six he called his creation. Very good. Did God look over his creation in say while after billions of years of death. Killing thing after thing after thing after thing, by the way, by the way, this death is what he calls the last enemy to be destroyed in first fifteen twenty six so he would be using his his last enemy to destroy d- for billions of years to bring about everything we see in Genesis one on the six day. Through all this death disease. Suffering famine thorns of this all the band that we see today. Going back to now are are millions of years Christians. They have to take death input. It before Adamson. This is what I think is the death knell to two older creationism. And I think the undermine the gospel because for Jesus dying on the cross he literally took the punishment that God's subscribed to sin back in the garden in Genesis two. That was the punishment. He didn't have to go. Get get a spanking in the corner or a out or you know, ludicrous things like death death. So this these are the arguments these arguments I make and I just don't see how you how you get around it. All right. I want change gears. I just added Paul Morrison bring his volume up so he'll be able to. All right. So Paul Paul had some question for folks who don't know. Basically since we added Anthony investor to the speaking roster striking tree he's kind of been the main to speak on. Creation science Genesis. Because actually, always Genesis because it doesn't matter. What topic you give him to speak on? He's going back to Genesis. So every every topic it just seems go there, but but there's one maybe we won't go to Justice and Paul had some questions with the new apostolic reformation folks may not be super familiar with this. I do podcast with Amy Spearman on new apostolic reformation. If you go to wrap report, I don't know which episode but do just when you get to wrap report on starting training dot org. Look up our podcast go to the rap report. Find the one with Amy Spearman on new episode reformation we define it there. It's basically in short this idea that there is people who churches that that can still have apostles and prophets today. They speak through the apostles prophets. So that's kind of the Anthony is kind of our resident expert that we have at striving for training on any are. So I said to Paul why don't you come on in and ask your questions of Anthony because he's going to be able to answer them better than I so go for Paul guys. Appreciate it. A anthony. I I've been in a month long discussion with a distant family member. And he and I shared both. Both grandkids is his daughters, married to my son. And so on an love this, brother. He's sweet man, but he's been really promoting this new apostolic, reformation leaders in it and other prosperity gospel leaders for while. And so that's. What spark our conversation. I said, listen, I don't think I want you promoting those things to me. And I certainly don't I don't want. I really wish would promote them at all. And and hope that we could talk about it. So we've zeroed in on pretty much Bethel reading it. How do you view Bethel reading in their role in the new apostolic reformation? So we have to we have to remember the NASCAR we as the outsiders. We look at this whole movement and we call the air. And I think a lot of people think that it's a denomination. It's not right. So we wanna make sure that we understand that. It's really a very loose. Amorphous type. Combination of number of places, I will say though, the Bethel reading is probably number one on the list. So when we look at the leaders of the new apostolic reformation, it is certainly Bill Johnson that is at the forefront. I would I would put almost on the same level. Mike Bickel of I hop. Not the pancake place, but international house of prayer. So the they're they're kind of the the two big guys today. This is what's also so mind you any ours. Really confusing. You know, I love Justin's. Twelve hours. I think are fourteen hours of water yet. Justin Peters, clouds that water. It's it's it hours to is longer. I don't know how long. Yeah. So it's. You go through all kinds of stuff, and what you're gonna find is that there's a number of beliefs that seem to be universal among all these leaders. There's some things are going to disagree on. But one of the hallmarks of the NR is ecumenism. They believe they believe in in literally type of collective salvation almost what we looked at with with what Obama seen to be promoting times, the mixing of of religions, and certainly Oprah preaches on this type of thing, and any are is very much like this so similar to. I don't want to pull the Catholic in in quite yet. But the one of the issues that we see with Catholicism on among many issues with Catholicism. Is that pokes beaming softer over the time? And it's now it's now as long as you believe in some type of God, you know? Yeah, you can go to heaven. Popes are getting softer. I don't know I questioned whether this Kerr pope is even Catholic. May with. How your video questions that too? But, but so my point Paul is that we go back to the NRA are, and they kinda firm anybody who believes in some type of God. And their their focus is literally God, they speak Jesus. But they don't they don't believe in the same Jesus that we do they believe in Jesus that when he came to earth. He wasn't God. Right. You look at explain that in detail. What what is what is the nuance there because I think a lot of people. Might benefit from knowing. What's a specific example of of what they might say to. Yes, this this is the problem though, is that. They don't a lot of them. Don't know the theology of the air. So people who are hearings to the NRA and our fans of Bethel. Don't know a lot of this stuff among what the leaders teach. Okay. But I mean, okay. So for us. Let's talk here for the people that are here. Why is it important to understand that Jesus? Both God fully God. And fully, man. Right. Let's start there. And I think maybe we have somebody who wants to speak instead. Answer for us. I mean, you have you do have the book written on the sun? Yeah. No. You know? This is very important spoke about is on Good Friday is if Jesus Christ was not truly man, then he can't be a sacrifice for other people. He can't be a sacrifice for human beings. So to be a sacrifice he had to be since never breaking the law of God that way he can be a proper sacrifice. But if he wasn't fully God. Then he we're dead in our sins. 'cause if he wasn't truly God, then he wasn't attornal, and he had to be attornal pain eternal fine. That's what makes them unique. Yeah. So thank you. If I'm understanding Johnson specifically or incorrectly. He sort of holds this view that Jesus laid aside his deity when it came to earth. That's what they say. That means is that he wasn't God when he was here. Now, here's here's the this is work. It's really interesting. Okay. And this is the important point to pick up on this. I mean, well, the most important places Andrew just brought up that you know, Jesus God than none of us have ovation. But I would say the second most important point is this because people new apostolic reformation, you have what they call the living apostles? Bill Johnson, Mike Bickel Lou angle. Todd Bentley the list goes on there's a number of these apostles so to speak today, and they in this in different conversation. But they believe that they have the same gifts of the Holy Spirit. They Uppsala gifts that were two thousand years ago. Well, what about for the normal person the average person they look at Jesus not as an apostle? But as a normal person who walked in the spirit. So I get you. Yes. To the father granted certain powers of the spirit Ford. And that's how he raid in his three years of mystery. Which means then that anybody who's in here in an air. Biaggi follows Bethel guests who they can also be like. Jesus and they can walk in the same power of the spirit granted by the father. Just like Jesus he is he's the role model is the model for for people. Right. So that that's where it really gets interesting. And that's why you see all kinds of really wacky stuff. I mean and just the last couple of weeks were we saw the tarot card stuff come back out right there. Okay. Today is that real they're really using something that's like Aotearoa card about. Yeah. That's was RO. And here's what's crazy to is is because this whole movement is highly affirming. Even if something seems not right? The leaders will firm it, right? Chris Valla tone, the guy who does that the grave sucking. I mean, this stuff's ludicrous. Right. So for those you don't know what sucking is you can go find this on YouTube, Chris Val tone. Who is I think third in charge. It's at Bethel. I think is a worship leader a second one. Maybe. Yes. He's like the worst player. Okay, worship. So he goes in and takes people on gravesites of people that they believe were specially anointed. So there's different levels of nineteen spirit. People get people are really annoyance the Holy Spirit. They'll lay on the graves to suck the anointing off of them and take it from selves Zoro, it's bizarre. I is that. I give you a practical example of why my one of my first views of Beth was a number of years ago. My my mom and dad lived in Weaverville where Bill Johnson is from in later. They moved to the other side of the valley to shingle town, which is across the valley from reading and mom got a. Diagnosis of cancer. And so so she went to the hostility imaging and basically took a an image of her head and the nurse who was assisting her just gave her hug and said, hey, listen. I'm not supposed to tell you this. This is good. And kinda gave her some of the details, and basically mom learned that David that she was going to die and heard my father left the hospital. She had hundreds of tumors that that's what she was learning. And as she left the hospital. They get any elevator. They ran into some folks from Bethel reading we're on something called a treasure hunt. Yeah. And my dad who walks with slight limp from a hip surgery, and he had a chain they honed in on him and completely unaware of the weight and gravity the situation. They said, hey, sir. A we'd like to pray for you. Jesus will heal you if you'll just a an my dad's at, hey, listen, nothing, you know. So you don't understand. I don't think you understand see they completely missed the entire gravity of the situation. Looking at the visual of and thinking, they knew what the situation was or maybe had some kind of divine insight to a newer completely loss at the gravity of the situation. Of course, mom passed on just a few months after that. An and I thought how strange is this to go and think that you're working in the thirty of the Holy Spirit. An at you're going to claim a healing. And then and completely missed this this whole situation. How terrible is that? And I would suspect that there are things like that the playoff time and time again that the fruit the end fruit and result is let's say we profess a healing over somebody of diabetes, and then they they claiming healing. Maybe they even feel good for a day or two, but they quit their beds. You know, I mean, the fallout can be difficult. And so that's that's a concern. I have I have another question for you though in this game for a my from my family member Bill and Bill would want to ask this. He asked us of me this morning. He says how does God speak to us today in my immediate thing was will primarily right through his word. I mean, that's what we have what a gift the word of God is for us. Well, let me give you the question. He could ask him back. Okay. Because the argument for folks who may not be with an AR is the idea that we we somehow we need these prophets and apostles today. Now, this is one of the things you see almost every Colt that they're going to teach that the average person can't have the authority to understand God's word, you need them as leaders that. Because that's what gives them that authority to have the control over your life. Jehovah Jehovah witness Mormon Roman Catholic any of them. They have that central authority. That's going to tell you. You can't interpret the bible we interpreted for you. It's the same thing that you have with any are they're going to say, well, they have the prophets. They of the apostles only they can interpret. But the question is why haven't we had it for thousands of years? And all of a sudden we need it now. Okay. Now, if you're if you're going to deal with the separation now Roman Catholics say they've always had their popes. I think that's hard to show historically, but they're going to make the claim at least, but Mormons Jehovah witnesses. They have to say the church fell away. So for guy like that's in Bethel that says he's part of the Christian church. And he's not part of one of these these groups where were the where was the apostles where the profits for all these years? They they're not gonna say the church fell away. They're not going to say that they've always had them. But they don't even think through their their, you know, when we see three major times in history that we have recorded where miracles occurred K, Moses. Alishan Elisha and Christ. What are we see all three of those times? Moses, we have the beginning of the writing of scripture, then there's a period of silence allies Elisha come onto the scene. They come into scene. And all of a sudden after we have the writing of scripture after a long period of science. We are the writing of scripture again with the prophets then period of silence. Then all of a sudden Jesus comes on seeing all these miracles. What do we have again with is with the the apostles? We have the writing of scripture now, it's gone silent. If we look at the pattern, we'd be saying, okay, they have to have some new authority while then there's got to be scripture being written. Now, they're going to say that they don't need that. But here's a real thing that I would challenge you with Paul is if they're claiming these prophets claim to make prophecies. We look at the scriptures. Scriptures would say that a prophet has to be one hundred percent right yet for these guys. These guys say that their accuracy is about eighty six percent. I believe is the latest numbers. They're they're not claiming to be a hundred percent. According to the bible, we should stone them as a false prophet. Now, they say it's not a false prophecy. It was a prophecy. That was just wrong. I think that's a strange excuse when we see the vehicle standard for profits that they in fact Bill actually brought this up. He said, hey, a New Testament prophet has a different standard than an Old Testament prophet. And I said, I don't know that I could find Mace. What verse what verse does he turn to for that? I don't think he did. Yes. Because he can't this goes right back to the confirmation bias. Okay. So so the issue for to challenge him with? And this is really the issue. Do they want truth or do they want the bible to say what they wish it said? Because the truth is there's nothing that talks about a New Testament prophet, right? Sounds like evolutionist millions of years. Yeah. It's the same confirmation bias. You know? And so so what is Bill Johnson is going to set himself up as the authority. Now, the nice thing when you do that is when you set yourself up as the authority, can you ever be wrong? No. Because you're the authority. That's right. Right. In fact, I think Bill and I were discussing not not Johnson. Of course. Bill family member. We were discussing this idea phrases don't got in a box, right. This is a use that or bell writing uses. And so Bill say will maybe scripture gives a st- a snapshot. But it's not all inclusive of everything God might choose to do at any given time in history. I mean, that's that's an interesting thing any brought up a new well how does God speak to us today. You know, we think will through his word. He has spoken. We know that. And then what about when we say things like, in fact, I was watching Lindsay Davis interview on think apology cultish last night, they had released video. And and she said something like I I was led to back to Bethel course, attempts to witness the gospel to the to the folks that were there, and he said, well, what about that? What's this leading that got his God speaking to her anything or do we? Have an inclination, and how does how do you view those type of communications between got house? God communicating with us other than the word of God. Well, I think that we do have the dwelling Holy Spirit. Okay. So. The spirit though, his ministry is to eliminate scripture. So does goes back to scripture here. Here's the thing. We have to look at there are some passages scripture we can examine do we put God in a box. Let's take that one. For example. Well does God put himself in the box. There are God has certain limitations Titus one to God cannot lie. He cannot it doesn't matter. If it's Old Testament or New Testament, he cannot ally why because this is part of his nature. He Andrew taste just slightly grossing over. I my on my phone. It's about the diet. I gotta run and get my charter, and I don't want to miss anything. But you may have to it's gonna freeze. Let me run running charger. What we'll talk about you while you're gone. It'll be fun. Because you know, he can always go back and get this on on in any here. What we say about him that could be fun. But he let me all answers and even go back and rewatch. But here's the thing that we end up seeing with this. We have to look at what the scripture says. And I know Anthony you're gonna love this quote. You've heard it before. But Justin Peters always says if you want to hear God's speak read the bible if you'd like to hear him, speak audibly, read it aloud. And that's what we have. We we have this case where if you wanna hear God's speaking. It is in his word now, what is it word say in Hebrews thirteen. He is the same yesterday today and forever. Another words what that's talking about. It doesn't mean that if he gave a gift in one period of time. He's gotta do it in this period. Time he did miracles one period time he's gotta doing that's not the meaning it's talking about his character his character doesn't change. So God is faithful he's always going to be faithful if he cannot lie. He can never lie. So when we look at these things, this is why comes in because what these guys wanna do say that you're if you question could God do something. Then the issue is. You know is he does he have to be. Okay. So I would say that you know, when you look at this. There's people who try to argue that somehow he has to be different. So because what they're what they're trying to say is that their their view that they have is. You know, he's he's doing these things today through Bill Johnson, right and others. And yeah. No, there's okay. But the thing is that when we look at what scripture says that's the authority because here's what you're you're. You're relative bills. Do you're presenting bible. He's presenting Bill Johnson. That's right. So the question is which is the authority because every time you present scripture, and he rejects it for Bill Johnson says his real thorny Bill Johnson. And that's what you see in a Colt. Think I think is true. And I know that the specific scriptures we wrestle with. He kind of wants to go off in argue about. He was argue about specific scriptures. That aren't really relating to on an interview right now, we just minutes. And teenagers. Anyhow, so he'll he'll want to argue about things that are just general Charismatics versus non charismatic look this. That's a non issue for me in this in this type of discussion. Although I do I probably do have some issues with what I see in the charismatic movement. I don't know that that's the same as arguing the authority of scripture versus Bill Johnson. You know? So I keep trying to focus backing and say, let's go ahead. And let's go ahead. And look at what Bill Johnson Bethel writing are representing which I think is very low view of scripture, by the way. And so any, you know, another strange thing. Not only speaking, but the manifestation of miracles that Johnson claims such as the gold dust, the gyms that are kind of popping up angel feathers. Again, I I noticed that my friend Bill will want to argue specific scriptures that don't preclude a possibility of things like this happening but were prevented according to him. But I just think that it. I think when we take a look at what the word of God says it just has nothing like this in it. I other words, these manifestations are are strange. I can't reconcile at all to any experience. We might have seen in the New Testament or for that fact, any period in church history. Anyhow, that's kinda just of it. You know, we're looking at gold dust gems now our now, we're discussing those kind of things, and I think it's so bizarre. Where where the where the discussions led? Well, let's remember a couple of things here. I mean, first of all. All while they would claim Aaron see a scripture. They don't they they would not believe in sufficiency scripture. Right. And so that's why they believe they're still getting downloads from God. That has to be that has to be owned by that group. And you know, I heard Bill Johnson saying movie called Holy Ghost produced by I think it's wonder less films, which is basically Bethel writings video film production. I hope I have that that tunnel. Right. But he said of folks like myself another's that are like minded with the bible that we basically worship the bible heels. He has a phrase, it's not the father son in the holy bible Safafa son in the Holy Ghost. And then he goes off into a dialogue net movie. Holy Ghost about how folks like us tend to get into the worship of scripture, and I think that's an unfair charge. I think we hold a high view scripture because it it is what a second Timothy three sixteen seventeen that. It's got breeds. You know, it's for every it is the sufficiency of God's word for all facets of Christian living. And so I think they fall short there. Anthony, good observation. Now, of course, let's remember they make lots of money based off of the fact that they get people wrapped up in emotionalism. They get people wrapped up in in the signs and wonders in. So you know, you you look at all the excitement it comes around the church. Where's it from you see the tarot card readings and they've got they've got huge Facebook live presentation on this. You've got you've got people that constantly show the gold dust that supposedly fell and they're showing this on camera these big rubies. You know, if if you had a ruby that was literally that big it would be worth millions. I mean, and these are. Heart-shaped that. That's funny. Yeah. And if they had that they would go by themselves new private jet, right? Thing you buying a bag of fifty party, central or something. And this is the part that is so amazing to me is that people have got to know that these are fake that these jewels. Drop down that they're showing Facebook fake to know this how how do they reconcile their heads? I think it's the same issue. I think they are. They're wrapped up in the emotionalism of it will actually do because you mentioned gold dust here. I don't know if you've heard this from Jeff you heard from Justin, but Justin Peters, actually met a woman who got saved and her and her husband job was to put this gold glitter in ventilation every week. And yet she still part of it is that helpful. And what I'm gonna do is. I'm going to get a hold of you again. And I'm gonna give out that info. Because here's the thing though. She read she rationalized it in our own mind. And it was like, well, this is really God doing something. Even though she knew her husband who still I guess is involved in it. They just think well, this is really God doing something even though they know they're putting the gold dust in the ventilation system. And they still think it's something God is doing that still God doing American. That's where anything there so blinded by it. They even though they're physically putting it in the ventilation system. They still think it's something from God orientated cut you off. Now. It's okay. So it's yeah. Go ahead. Anthony. In. I guess I was going to add a little bit to this in going back to something you said earlier about the treasure hunting stuff treasure hunting is what they call vandalism. So they have videos and just give it a little my background. Why why went Andrew brought up? How I have a a thing for Catholics thing for any are is because I grew up Catholic. And as it I probably a lot of professing, Christians vais, you're Catholics. I got a special angst on that. We have a lot of family members still trapped in the cult. It's for the NR. We had two friends when I got saved. My wife's one of her really good friends. Her husband's started disciples me reform pastor and over over several years just started getting some different things next thing. You know, he and his wife sell everything Goff to Weiwei m. And they come back from Wai Wim, nine months, ten months later, and they were full on Bethel. Reading people. See an I see the connection there. Anthony, I have a, you know, my son went through the stating why experience, and I could not believe that did not only our relationship for number of years. How damaging it was for his own personal faint, and where that led him to an incredible broken est. And here's the here's the quick I sent him to Mexico on emission and high school. And and why went with wi- Wim? I didn't know, you know. And and folk started prophesying over him. Oh, you're not even gonna finish school. You're going field. And he came back, and he was a complete rebel against is father. And I said son the Lord has shared any of these things with me. And I don't have a piece about what you're saying. I can't let you abandon your these this path that you've been on academic which was excellent by the way, and we really part it on just terrible terms. Now, he and I are great friends today mice. Son, Steven, but it was a difficult thing that happened as a result of these folks adults and other teens adults and teens both prophesying falsely over him one part of the call it. It's love bombing. They they are trained to this love bombing. Where they they have multiple people come up to you. And and they just shower we shower you with love with praises, and then with prophecies of courses to suck you into the whole movement. We really good at this one of the things that you mind, what we in the seeing with these prophecies is most often it is a positive in maybe hard at first, but it always ends in a positive note. So it's it may be like you're gonna lose a family member. But you're going to gain. Oh, you know, worldwide audience or something they always have an end prophecy. That is feeding to the the pride to the flesh and people want that to be true. And that's the boy. Blinding part. That's where if they're they wanna have that thing that was prophesied, and because they want that so badly now if if they give up on the NRA Colt than what they're really doing is they're giving up their chance for that prophecy to be true. It is it is a sick way of controlling people. But that's how it's used. It's used control people because what it does it gets them to really really really want that prophecy to be true because they want the result of it. And so they're going to be sucked into believing it. And now what they do is. It's a confirmation by a different sort because what you end up having. I always go uses ample, I remember, I had a friend in college. She was very much into horoscopes. I mean, everyday she check her horoscope and every day, it would be true. And she did this for years ever since she was an elementary school. And what I did was I made her read not. Just her heart scope, but every one of them every day, and the result was they were all true every day because they're so general she would look for ways to make it true happens goes, that's the fulfillment. That's it. It's done. You know? You know, that's like cold reading guys the guys do the coal reading on the second. I do they're sort of which is that the Bethel style of evangelism. We saw the movie Holy Ghost where they would come up and they start to try to cold people in ask general questions and make Haiti heard anywhere. Do you have any kind of pain anywhere? I don't know anybody who does it. Word that starts with the letter. Or L? The. Yeah. So, and you know, we see that a bunch. And so what I wanna do pull though is I do want to want to try to get we do have someone that somewhat regular traditional Catholic. I wanna give time for he and Anthony since but we may we'll see what happens next week. We might have if Matt's not in will, you know, maybe come back, and we'll continue this discussion sound good. It's not like, you don't know how to get a hold of us either. Yeah. By the way, just for folks were watching. I don't know. I've added traditional Catholic gonna turn his volume he can meet himself. I don't know why on YouTube right now something changed, but it is constantly showing just me. I'm having to click between the speakers, I don't know what happened there with with this. But if you see it on me, it's not because I think it's all about me. But I'll try to fix that. So traditional Catholic. Yeah. I can I can select all kinds of different pictures to. But that should just show for you. Just for me. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Traditional catholic. Are you here? I forget his first name. Yeah. Yeah. Yo to hear me coming in loud and clear. Yeah. What was your first name was it was a Peter. It's know James James, I knew at least was a biblical name. You know that? Okay. So so I think you I think you Anthony having already heard some of what Anthony was saying. I think that you might disagree with Anthony. I just a bit. I wanna I ask whether you I'm just out of curiosity. Do you agree or disagree with what I said, how Catholic do you think the current pope is? He is not Catholic at all. He's an anti-pope all of the post back into Pappu claimants or anti-popes, which means that are not Catholic there. There are false popes. The Vatican to the teachings of the Vatican two council are not Catholic because the Vatican two council actually contradicts all the other church councils and all the ex cathedra statements from the other past popes. So they're not Catholic at all. We'll see at least we partially agree. I just think that. Yeah. I just think the ones before we're also. But not anti-catholic maybe because I'd say anti-christian, maybe, but we're disgree so you, but I want a let you at Anthony has some fun here. Well, I I'm glad that you have Dr so best show when I saw that name. I was like, wow, Dr Savell show. This sounds like something from like a comic book or something. Whether it'd be a superhero superman, but awesome main to have. But I I think we just got it. We just got the Monica it's gonna be Dr Anthony the super villain dentist. But but I just want. Tell you that we traditional Catholics. We absolutely dogmatically believe in a young earth. We reject the idea any idea of evolution whatsoever. That the earth is owed. Now, the Vatican to set that has a dull adopted that in fact what they did a while back. They actually held a meeting whereby a conference whereby they only accepted those that were. Proponents of evolution in rejected, those that believe in intelligent, design, and and young earth. So I'm that's that's my question to you doctors so vest show. Have you ever I'm guessing you have speaking engagements different places? Have you ever had a speaking engagement with anyone in any diocese under the Vatican? Vatican two sect. No. Because if I if I spoke to the Catholic church, I wouldn't speak on creation at all. I would be preaching the gospel continuously and and teaching the bible, and why belief Catholocism to be a false religion. I believe it to be a call to actually as Andrew would have in his book. So so no, I've not had that trinity. Now having said that I have a lot of friends on Facebook. You know, you know, friends people that you haven't talked twenty years since high school, and and now they fringe you over over the years. So the number of our Catholic and we've had some interesting discussions about younger. And I you're right. There's a lot of Catholics. You don't believe in Lucien, despite what has been said over the last several popes because I think Pope John Paul the second was the first one to really make a statement on this and like nineteen ninety-five not mistaken. And so there's a lot of people at reject. The idea of evolution Catholics. I should say. But no, I've never spoken in a Catholic church. Of course, if you want to invite me, I'd be happy to go. Well, if you if you I don't know if you have any material any books or anything, but it maybe you could contact the most Holy Family monastery. If you go to Vatican, doc, Battiston, Catholic dot com. They have their contact information. And they have some information themselves of, you know, promoting a young earth. And they cite several examples. Some maybe you could collaborate with them or you could you know, send some of your information to them. And look at the information, they have as well said I wanted to know again going I wanted to know when I speak to atheists, they always bring up plate tectonics, and I don't know how to respond to that. Do you know what what's the position? What what can I say to them, you know, when they bring up the point tectonics, and they claim that it proves that the earth is old. I it's it's a different starting point to mean when we look at plate tectonics. We would say it's because of the flood the founder of the deep breaking open that this is that we would believe as biblical Christians younger creches that there was one landmass that was broken up sometime during the flood and the continents moved apart probably pretty quickly early on they're still moving. Now, I'd have really really really slow rate. But we would look at the plate to tonics all coming from the flood the one major catastrophe, but happens on this planet, and by the way, I'll Tai sin now to something Andrew set earlier with the with the understanding of vice age secular. Scientists believe there's been multiple ice ages. The reality is is that there is only been one ice age and we can demonstrate this through lots of computer modeling. That the only way you can have an ice age. Is you have to have lots and lots and lots of water that got va- paraded. You also have to have stuff like volcanic dust that would partially blocked the sun with the evaporation and have that massive amount of water come back down as snow and in. So we see wonderful models to show that as a result of floodwaters being being va- paraded that that came down over the next several hundred years or so in an ice age. So that's all that connects but I played tectonics. I I'm going to point to the flood. I and I'm not even sure why they believe that Playtex tonics has any evidence for millions to billions of years except for their belief that they also believe in Panji of sorts at the beginning of whenever that reformed, and that these continents have have broken up now in their mind. They're going to see that the slow rates that have that are occurring today in terms of of Playtex tonics and plates moving they're going to say a uniform Attaran as they're going to say that because what we see going on today being slow that. It's actually always been that way where we would say, we'll wait a minute. We looked at a global flied founds founds, the deep breaking open a major earth catastrophe that caused this to happen in a rapid manner. We can demonstrate this. We actually a number of things said decay of the magnetic field seem to to have heightened during the flood times, and several other examples that we could bring up I does that answer your question. Yeah. Yet. Absolutely. Does an and I just wanted to say, I I think you're doing great work. And I know you said that you'd bring the gospel to the Catholic church while the Catholic church already knows the gospel is the Vatican two sec that seems to have swayed away from the true church just like Protestantism. And I mean, we could discuss it. But Yes, What's the gospel? Then this Goss boy, the good news of Jesus Christ his incarnation God becoming man his life and his death for our sins for auto salvation in his resurrection. That's the gospel the gospel message, and it's not just the only gospel will message all the teachings of Jesus is also the gospel of the apostles. If you reject any of the teachings whatsoever. Then you rejecting the teachings of Jesus rejecting the teachings of God, you're rejecting the teachings of the gospel. You have to include all of that within the gospel. You can't just say, well, I believe in this little sliver part of the bible in if anyone believes that they're true Christians. That's not what the bible says. Okay. We'll specifically says that if you depart from any teaching of Jesus and the apostles your heretic. You're not a member of the church and not a member of true believers, so you have to accept all the teachings. So James is so then you would agree that that it's not by works that were saved. Correct. The teachings of the bible. Yes. It's not by our works. That were say, and that's actually what the Catholic church teaches. If you look at the council of Trent. Specifically says it's not by our works that Reseda, but where does my gods works. Yes. We're now disagree with Calvinism Calvinism says that there's no free will. And we disagree with that. We believe that. If you look at Fijian's two ten we specifically must do the works that God has laid out for the faithful. Now, that's a saying. Yes to it by choice. Now. I don't know if you're a Calvin est if you accept Calvinism or not. But Calvin is reject this. Okay. Most Protestants are not communists, which is great. But the small number of Calvin that exist. They reject that. They don't believe that you can say, yes, they leave God is sort of like a jet. I jet on mind trick on people and making people do things, you know. Whereby they have no free will hold on. Hold on haunt. Okay. I first off give strowman so your whole arguments. Invalid. Okay. Because not what Calvinism beliefs. But so you don't you. Do you believe that any works or other than what Christ did on the cross? Are there any works that contribute to our righteousness? There are no works in Catholicism's of this is what could follow teaches. And again, go to the council on typically sets this that we never know grace from our own works. Okay. New works. We do as meaningless the guy. So it is it is saying hold on. Hold on. Hold. Okay. 'cause we we only have thirty minutes left. Okay. So baptism too. So someone have to be baptized to be saved. Yes. Someone has to be ties to be saved. But remember that when somebody is baptized person, that's getting ties isn't doing any work there being baptized. In other words, a work is being done to them. But they're not doing anything. Okay. Debate with hold on. Hold on. Hold on. James hold. You going off on several top is the thing we I've we've talked about this the past because you you hit like ten different topics. We're trying to we let stay one. Okay. So short quick answers that answer specifics. Okay. So the question now that I have for you. So I just want quick answers for moment. So you're you're saying baptism is a work that someone else does to the person is that correct? It's a work that God's doing through someone to the person. It's in other words, God has laid out certain works that the faithful should do. Okay. And that would be a work that that God has laid out. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold hunt sticks. It was it was yesterday. But yesterday, look different way you're saying God does it. So God is the one who baptize the infants. Yes. Or no. Yes. Okay. So so God does it not the priest. Well, God works through persons. Just like you work through the prophets. The prophets then do anything on their own in. No, priests can do anything on his own works to persons. See this all throughout the bible, God working through individuals. So it's got always doing it. No, one can do it in and of themselves. Okay. Well, actually gonna disagree, and I'll tell you why they're plenty of Mormons get baptized. Are you going to say that God did the those baptisms? No Mormons are not Christians. They don't accept the Christian faith. Okay. Don't believe in the holy trinity. So they're not Christians. So they're bad. Tim's or invalid God's not doing anything through Mormon. Hold on. We got doing apples to apples because you're said that God does the baptism and you said no one could do that work apart from God. But now, you're accepting them Mormons can do apart from God. So why do you why is it that? How do you resolve this conflict that you just created for yourself while I just? To you. I just told you that their baptisms are invalid because they don't have belief the bible says that you must have belief Andy baptized, just as we see next to thirty eight. So you cannot if you if you don't have belief the correctly, which is a Catholic faith, and you get that. And you get that ties. Let's say you believe in faith alone. And then you get bad ties while you've got ISM is meaningless. Okay. So so you don't have the true faith. But now, you have yourself a dilemma because the the Mormon is going to say the same exact thing to you that you don't have the right belief. They do your belief is a belief that needs to be restored by Joseph Smith, your baptisms. Not valid. There's is because they do it in temple. And you don't. So the problem. You have is your the you're alternately appealing to is your confirmation bias that you believe you're Catholic church is right. And you just got you just explain something that you don't even see the contradiction. You said no one can do Baptist and no one can do work apart from God yet, the Mormon do the same exact work, and you suddenly say, well that's not from God. Now, you're explaining it away. But your your standard is your church not the bible. No, none are on my standard is the bible by I just explained to you that acts two thirty eight says, you must hold the belief, and you must repent and you must be bad ties. So you have to have all three you can't have any one of the three a lot of Protestants believe that all you need us faith alone. That's one of the three. No, you must also have the repentance, and you also have the baptism otherwise your sins are not forgiven unless you reject acts two thirty eight. I don't know. Maybe you reject to thirty have no idea. I guess what? Your bible says I reject your private interpretation of X thirty eight on. I'm not I'm not giving a private interpretation on telling you, actually, what acts two thirty eight says it says that you do not receive the remission of sins unless you believe repent and be that let's read exactly what ax thirty to thirty eight says and see if it says that all three are necessary for salvation like a hold on. If you're gonna said, you were just Rica's will hold on. If you're. Going to do that. It doesn't say the word believe, but if you go to the ax ax to thirty seven because you'll have to read X to thirty seven in along with X two thirty eight because we see in acts two thirty seven that the Jews when they heard the message, they came to believe at that moment, which is why they asked Peter Saint Peter what they must do to get by Swiss Jesus thirty seven is that what you want us to read correct with X two thirty seven and then go through acts two thirty eight sure now, and we're looking for is where it says all three are necessary to be saved as you said. You're just reading scripture you weren't giving a private interpretation. So we're looking for that exact phrase what I'm questioning let all all the house. I said what I said was you set you Seri what I said, my sack wording was all three are necessary in order for one to have their forgiveness of sins as you know, and yet, gene less one less. Just given that one is not saved in one is not what can sell it onto God unless one sins forgiven James, I I don't wanna have to play with your your to to meet you. What you said. And this is I know that you're look, I know you're having some difficulty here. I know that it's hard when you get put on the spot and your contributions get pointed out, but the right thing to do would be to give up the Catholic church and just accept truth. But what you said was you were not giving private interpretation you're reading scripture. So if you're reading scripture, we should be able to see in scripture that exact phrase that you said was not an interpretation, but exactly from scripture, correct? And it's there it's with read it. Let's fair. Okay. Let all the house of Israel, therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord. And Christ this Jesus whom you crucified now when they heard this. They were cut to the heart and said to Peter and to the rest of the apostles brothers. What shall we do? And Peter said to them repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and your see the gift of the Holy Spirit. That doesn't say what you what you said, you weren't reading it. You are interpreting it I don't see anywhere in. This is all you just said that didn't say I said, yes. So let's say in acts two thirty seven that. Does it implicitly suggest that they came to believe? No, no. When you do a suggest, but here's the whole point. When you say, it's sig- jests. That's an interpretation. You said you weren't interpreting you were reading. So were you reading or were you in Turkey what? Well, okay. Well, do you. Do you agree with me that in acts two thirty seven it implicitly suggests that the Jews at that moment came to believe, which is why they ask Saint, Peter. How do we get right with a with? Jesus. How do we get right with God? Well, what am dressing is this private interpretation that you have? Okay. I understand. I'll go ahead and concede your point. I'll concede your point Andrew and say, I'm I'm wrong. I was interpreting. So do you agree with me that acts to thirty seven that the Jews in our extra thirty seven came to believe at that moment. And two three seventy I believe that they would have gotten saved at that moment. Now, why didn't ask you if they came to if they would have gotten se I asked you if they if they came to believe at that moment. Believe what? Believe in God and Jesus Christ. Which is why they ask Saint Peter what they needed to do to get right with them. See, maybe this is the different view that we have of what salvation means. They would have to believe if they were generated. Okay. So is that a yes or no did they come to believe in X, two thirty seven so. Yes, or no. So this Texas saying that at this point, these these particular Jews at this particular time hearing, this message were regenerated, and they would've believed generated. Okay. Great. So we agree that in acts two thirty seven they came to believe. So there's no argument there, there's no disagreement. And now we move to acts two thirty eight hold on. No, no. Let's let's get to one thing though. When did they win? Did they get regenerated in this text? Right at the moment. They heard that and ask that question. Do you? Do you agree with that? They do you agree that they were generated that they believed at this moment when they hear this. If I don't know what Protestant doctrinaires with regards to Windsor generated in Protestant, doctrine, or their sense forgiven. Okay. Masking you at the moment, I heard this. I don't know because I don't know Protestant doctrine, I need to know your answer to that question. So if one is regenerated, then are their sins forgiven. Yes there since what have been forgiven across. Okay. Still look at what acts to thirty seven says. It says you you're not green would answer my question. If I answered yours, I answer yours. Now. You're gonna answer mine. That's the way this works. You said you needed to my answer to be able to respond. So Al at the moment that they heard this. In in acts thirty seven they heard and they were cut to the heart. Now when when they were cut to the heart. Did they believe? Yes. Okay. Were they then a I'm gonna try to try use words that might not cause confusion for you with you present doctrine. Would that be the time that they now are would be a child of God being an go turning from an enemy God to child of God. No. And let me explain why. Because you just said that Protestant action says that region ration- and forgiveness remission of sins occurs at regeneration. And yet if we look at acts two thirty eight we don't see that the remission remission of sins occurs until they repent and baptize so therefore baptism believe. I'm sorry holding believe repenting and being that ties all three things that must be accomplished in order for the remission of sins as you say regenerating to occur. If you go by X two to thirty seven to thirty eight you can't disregard what it's saying there. You can say, well, let's just this regard the repentance and baptism part in. Let's just say, hey, they believe and just add to scripture, which is an inscription in said, we have to go ahead and accept when x two thirty seven to thirty eight says, which is that you. Must believe you must repent, and you must be baptized in order for your sense to be forgiven, which you said is regeneration. Well, when was the payment of sin paid for? Two thousand years ago. Okay. So their baptism couldn't beat for their mission of sins. If it was paid for two thousand years ago, well, then you're disagreeing with the bible, which actually links water, not a new Jesus blood on the agreeing with you of it because there's see this is the problem when when you had the the word baptism, which we have a perfectly good English word for by the way, it's called to dip or to plunge. But when we created a word for baptism the assumption. Is that there's only one baptism water baptism. But there's not there several baptisms. Okay. Then you just with the bible because the bible says under the new covenant. There's only one baptism. Yes. There's there is there is only one into welling of the Holy Spirit. I agree with that. There's a bunch. You said there's no one where you just agree to there's lots of plunging. Okay. See that you're doing. And this is what you I you. Maybe you have to do is a foul of qualification to use one term and use it multiple ways or to take something that could have multiple meanings, but use the same term to say, it's all the same thing. But it's a healthy. Did that you just did that when you said that there's multiple baptisms? Okay. So there's is there a baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is about the Holy Spirit. But tisza. Tis them under the new covenant the bible explains. What aboutism under the new covenant. It does in Zeki twenty inches. Thirty six explains very clearly with that what the baptism is with the new covenant. Sign would be is the dwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is that the Holy Spirit will dwell each believer that my friend is what is equal twenty three thirty. Let's see thirty six. Okay. That is what it is. So you have it wrong. According to scripture, Ezekiel thirty six as the sign of the new covenant will be what we call the baptism away spirit. The fact that the that God's spirit will live within us. We will no longer need a priest to tell us what God's word is. Because the spirit will do it within us. Okay. So that's the baptism of spirit. You just said there's only one baptism now. You're a gin in contradiction with yourself because he just said there's two baptisms by the way is what I was saying that there's a water baptism. There's a baptism in the hoist. Spirit. There is also a baptism. That is the what John the Baptist did which would have been a Jewish ceremony. That's not the baptism of either one. So you have John's baptism you have the baptism of and you have the baptism the Holy Spirit. So there's three baptisms. Now, why do you have three because someone didn't translate? They transliterated. The didn't translate the word baptism. Oh into dip plunge because they would sprinkle the water and pour the water, and therefore they didn't want to translate it properly. And therefore, there wouldn't have been the confusion on what the Holy Spirit plunging is versus water plunging versus a ceremony that was done in a Jew when a gentile became a Jew, which would have been with John the Baptist it. Okay. So we now we now see that you accept multiple baptisms, which is nice. So again, we go back to the passage, and well, no, no, no, no. You just put words I didn't say that. I said multiple about. Games for co uses of baptism that are shown in the bible, for example. I will get I will ask you again. So we're clear is there a baptism the Holy Spirit. Yes, or no there is about some of the Holy Spirit is not that to them under the new covenant. And I explain fueled me is that the same thing as water baptism. If you're speaking of the into the Holy Spirit, then yes into the Holy Spirit occurs. When one was gets what about ties, so they're they're exactly the same thing. Well, we see that the season the Holy Spirit can occur before one gets what about ties, and we see that it can happen. When one gets what about ties, and we see later on after when gets back ties you much later, you said that that the water baptism or star that the that the Holy Spirit baptism the sign in the new coven could occur before water baptism. The holiest activism is a metaphor use of receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues prophecy, that's what the Holy Spirit baptism refers to if you speaking of the indoor Elling of the Holy Spirit that occurs when you actually get what about ties under the new covenant. If we if we look at the passage you wanted us to look at it makes it quite clear with this baptism is. Because it says exactly almost word for where what you just said because it says to be baptized every one of you in the Nima Jesus Christ for the forgiveness sins and you'll receive the gift of spirit. So that's the the baptism of the spirit. What do you know? It's exactly the main issue. This isn't the boys. What about to them linked to the blood of Christ? And one of us is reading the bible and one of us is interpreting the bible, and you're the one doing the private interpretation just saying well, the Fiji ins four five. Under the new covenant. Why are you jumping what do this a lot? So why are you jumping I'm going to the bible there? Fijian's four five says is only one says seasons four five and the issue there, then we could we're gonna see when we go there which baptism is it the water baptism the baptism of John or the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which ones being referred to there. Well, we have is speaking what aboutism because it's speaking of the baptism that Jesus. Instituted under the new covenant in Matthew twenty eight nineteen twenty you gotta jump to. Why can't you do this? Why can't you stick to one passage? You wanted to go to Fiji four Safeway have agreement on something. Do you agree with me that when Jesus spoke about Tim in Matthew twenty eight nineteen twenty was he speaking of what aboutism. Well, he wasn't speaking of baptism speaking about being plunged immersed now which was. What about this? Correct. No. You're plunged emerged in water, right or the Holy Spirit and John's his was different than the baptism that we would refer to after Christ. Is it not? John's baptism. You're saying. John John's baptism is different from about of Christ because John's baptism didn't have the grace of Jesus sacrifice on the cross which enables us or maybe or maybe John's baptism was a baptism of Jew agenda becoming a Jew, and now it wouldn't have that same significant. So the same exact act changed the meaning because now after Christ it had a different meaning much like we see with Passover changing with the into Lord's supper and things like that. So that we do have cases where we had the same exact behavior. Same exact work and the meaning of changes because Christ. So we may explain to you because the thing is we've you've your keep jumping around scripture. I know I know this tactic that people if you don't allow me to speak. I mean, all I wanna do is explain to you why you're wrong. And and I'll go ahead and show you scripture that that you're all seem to want. Won't allow me to do. It's not that. No, James what it is. You can't obey the simple laws of harmony six you're jumping all over the bible. You're you're using logical fallacies once you appeal to a logical fallacy than your your argument is invalid. So your argument wants you used a fallacy equivocation on the one word baptism yard invalid. There again, I didn't use vacation because I'm not the one that's saying that there's more than one baptism. Okay. Self says. There's only one so this. I know this is hard for you. I understand. Is John's baptism separate from the baptism after Christ. Yes, or no, yes. Okay. Is the baptism ahoy spirit different than John's baptism and the baptism after Christ. Yes. Okay. So there's three baptisms the one word is used three different ways. There you go. But you're speaking. Okay. Go home. The original topic was the gap Tisza for the remission of centuries as the bad Tisza of the new covenant. So only speaking of one bad design. We're not speaking John's at. Speaking of the art. Us beginning skirt. Okay. Speaking of the new covenant about Tim's. Plus, they focused on that. Sure. So we're only speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Correct now water baptism. But there's no I already show I already I ready. You're ready a quote gated heavily spirit. So is referring to receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues. Prophesying never does the bible say that the gift of the baptism the Holy Spirit. That does any grace associated with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Just out there. It doesn't say this any grace associated with the fire. So here. Say there's any grace associated with the baptism when the Jews cross the Red Sea with no it said they were ties to Moses. So it's all metaphor cases of the word bat Tisza, the only true bat Tisza under the new covenant is the one that Jesus instituted in Matthew twenty eight nineteen through twenty which is what aboutism which is. Why we see me Peter himself calling on on believers to get water bapti? So that they can be saved. Okay. So here's the thing. All right. I'm gonna try to make this really clear. I know you're you're because you're blinded because you're part of a cult. You cannot see I understand that. But you just stated that the only baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Which is what this mentioned right here in the ex passage that you wanted us to look at and then. He didn't say the only baptism was about to them. The Holy Spirit. You're listening to me. You can go back and religion to yourself and see that you know, I Tisza of the Holy Spirit is okay. Yes. The Holy Spirit, which means speaking in tongues prophesying, we're just gonna quite you down while I finish my sentence. Then because we're almost to the end. So here's the thing. Okay. What he said here folks is that the baptism is the baptism moist associated with the giving of gifts, which is exactly what it says here in this passage in acts. It is the one where gifts are given. That's not the water. So this is what you hand up having to have when you're stuck in something. He he is a quick ating on the term baptism. He wants to say water baptism when it's convenient say spirit baptism when it's convenient. And the reality is is that because of that he's going to, unfortunately, if he doesn't repent of this. He's gonna spend attorney lake afire because he thinks baptism water. Baptism is necessary for salvation because spirit baptism is required. For salvation. So we would agree that we have to repent and be baptized with the Holy Spirit who gives gifts just as it says in the ex passage that he quoted the referred us to because in that passage. We are baptized with the Holy Spirit. Which is what we see as the sign of the new covenant not water baptism. That he crisis the water baptism is removing the sins. That's not what the passage turn to though says seeing this is the thing that you end up seeing he had to acquit acute on the terms. Because what this passage says is speaking of a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Who will give the gifts? That's exactly what it said. All I had to do is read that it doesn't say anywhere in here. Water you see he reads that into it. He interprets that by private interpretation into the text because that's what the Catholic church says, it means when it says quite clearly here that be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit. It tells you which baptism. This is. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's when we get saved water baptism comes after. The irony is even accepted that and he's he said that that would be something. That could happen. You could have a separation in these two. So this is the thing we only have a couple of minutes left. So we unfortunately won't be able to continue. And I kind of thought that Anthony was gonna jump in. And then I jumped in sorry. I'm the website. He pointed out this. Was Vatican cath dot com. It's almost like they believe this. The this. The letter popes to be like what we would call the Piscopo aliens are the editor price like complete heretical sect of of the Catholics. They have a section on here. That is to is document dot it's documentary on prostate his big justification lie. And what if I'm fascinating about this? They have they have seven pictures six of which are really good the alot Jains. They got Martin Luther the got RC sprawl the John MacArthur. They have John piper. They have done Calvin picture him James wall. And in this list of wonderful preachers. Stephen anderson. I find odd. But. That's that's because they don't understand the difference between Stephen Anderson and all those guys, right? Right. So so we'll wrap up we try to keep this to two hours. James? I do hope you come back, and we can have more spirited discussions. And it's you know, I hope folks on stand James, and I are going to have some spirited discussion. James Madel have them. Maybe even Anthony and him. If I were to let Anthony jump in. Actually, I did for folks who to know. I did in the chat say, hey, ethnic. Sorry. I jumped I told you were going to jump in. And he said, no, I'm just listening. So. But you know, the thing is, you know, there is one thing that I do wanna convey and that is. James, and I make it very spirited in our disagreements and we do disagree. He describes me if he's going to follow Roman, Catholic theology. He would think that I'm destined to hell because I believe in grace alone, not through a work of baptism that human does or even a human does to another. But the reality is is that I would say it's by Graceland faith alone in Christ alone that there is no church that interprets scripture forth there are no priests. Because the that is what the promise of the new covenant was to Jewish people was that when messiah comes we no longer need a priesthood because the Holy Spirit would dwell us and teach us his word. The fact that they have priests and say that there cannot be private interpretation proves that they are not under the new covenant just the thought. But why is that a concern? That's concern for me because I want James. To have attornal life right now. He's he's unfortunately in a condition of being condemned under God's word. He's going to disagree with that vehemently disagree with that. Because he thinks he's following God's word. But folks, you saw how he acquitted Cates on terms like baptism. You see that he says there's only one baptism then agrees that there's three separate baptisms that have different meanings. They're not the same. And so that's the game that has planned. This is what people do in their minds when they wanna believe something. Whether it's the any or like Paul's talking about earlier with his his his family member, they want to believe this. They want it to be true. And they're basing literally basing their attornal soul on this. But we need to do trust with scripture says alone. Now, I know that you have people say, well, I'm just reading scripture, but they weren't because when he said, I was just reading scripture. That's not what scripture said. And then what do you have to do? He had to quit Kate on the term baptism to read a different baptism in. Then the one that the word actually says there you see this is the game that gets played a lot. And that's what's going to condemn people to help is when they believe something. And he said it he said that the gospel is believing the word of God. And yet you just saw he doesn't believe the word of God. Because he's a quick aiding terms. He would be by his own definition, a heretic, but he, but he thinks that applies to us not him. All I did was read the scripture. That's all I did. I didn't need to go beyond that. I didn't have to jump all over the bible to to see what the one verse says that's part of the rules of interpretation. And so my concern is for not only him. But where anyone listening to where we you spend attorney that is the most important question because if you die in a rebellious state against God thinking that you can work your way to heaven you will SP. Attorney in a lake afire in. I don't wanna see that for any of you. I wanna see you have turn life. We all break God's law, but we have to turn from trusting ourselves or our good nature that we think is good or our good works and turn to trust in Jesus Christ. That's how you have attornal life. And I pray that James will do that. It would be great rejoicing for many of us here when we see if if that was to happen with him. And the thing folks is this is something we pray that you would be blessed by that. You learn things we're not on doing this apologize live just to have debates. Just I mean, it's it is could be enjoyable spirited conversations where there's name calling and James, and I didn't get into calling each other names, and such and that's how we can disagree. We both think are each other's wrong. Okay. And so the thing is that this is something we do to help people. Learn how to discuss. Our differences to be able to defend the faith the biblical faith that we see in the bible. And if you want to see ministries like this continue it takes your support. Okay. If you'd consider donating to help this. You can help us continue not only this. But other works that we're doing so you could go to striving for turn any dot ORG slash donate and donate. What what can you get from? That will cause we give we actually give gifts. If you donate two dollars a month. You'll get a copy of what do we believe? If you give five dollars a month. You get the copy of what do we believe? Plus, you'll get a copy of what do they believe he'll get both books. If you give five dollars a month. If you give ten dollars a month, you get those two books, plus the one that Anthony was just mentioning the book on the origin of kinds. So you'll get all three of those. If you give just ten dollars a month. If you give twenty dollars a month, you'll get those three plus a copy of sharing the good news with Mormons, you'll get all for those book, by the way sharing. Good news. With Mormons alone is twenty dollars. You get off for those for a donation of twenty dollars a month. If you give twenty five dollars a month what we're doing with that is we take that money. And we try to find a missionary that we can help them get a podcast to get him to quit and the hosting. So they would be able to be podcasting instead of sending emails reports. So that's what we'd be looking. So if you support us, it helps us to go out and do more we're going to be doing some speaking events to let you know. Actually, Anthony years is coming up before mines all that. You mentioned you're speaking of ends. I you got some things coming up this actually this week, right? Yes. So this Sunday will be the first of three Sunday sermons on vandalism. It's a pastor who who knows that the way to grow church Biblically as is through Vangelis efforts. And so I'm going to be going down there and teaching us about forty minutes from my house here said it's local which is nice. Where's it at do? You know, the name of the church in. Yeah. It's Medina bible church in Medina, Ohio. Pastor, Mark rice and out. What school is all be able to? I I'm taking the associate pastor David Duale, and we are going to be going to Cleveland state next Thursday, and I actually put that on Facebook as well for anybody wants come on. Evangelize at Cleveland state. It's one of my favorite places to go. And I've got five hundred of the booklets what time is purple from wretched radio, and our a give every one of those away if everything goes according to plan, and I'm gonna be teaching the associate pastor kind of how to do vandalism out there. And he so he and I'm gonna be working together. A lot over the next couple of months as he's going to learn and then be able to help teach his church and start taking out your speaking at church three times of those dates. So it's it's this Sunday. And then it'll be I think it's may nineteenth and may twenty six okay rebates, and I will be heading out to the Philippines starting. I think may sixteenth. I actually I head out to Justin Peters church to conference with Jason Lisle. Then we had Justin I head out to the Philippines. But here's the thing. Your support helps us get. To the Philippines and address this NAR. That's that is prevalent out there because they need the help they need their. We're gonna be doing a couple of conferences while we're out there. I'm going to be doing a conference on to a bunch of church leaders church discipline. Then I'll be Justin we'll be dealing dealing with doing a seminar on child of angel ISM. I'll then do a basic conference on open air evangelism. And just in Arkansas. Take people out on the streets than just going to be doing a conference a on discernment. We're gonna do that both in Manila and in Sabuku. Now, the church is down. There are taking care of everything. Once we land in the Philippines. The thing is we need your help to get to Philippines. We're still looking to raise support. So we can get over there. And that's where you can help us. If you go to striving for Turney slash donate. You choose to use patriotic or pay pal? Either way, though, whichever way you do we will give those gifts out to you. And it helps us get to the Philippines. So we can help. Get the gospel out the biblical gospel out around the world. So I thank you guys. I hope that you will consider helping us out and supporting us politics live is a ministry of striving for turn ity. We do it in coordination with Karm to good ministries. Mets is with Karm. I'm with striving for Turney, we do this. As a means of trying to help the church to better prepare the church to defend the faith of Jesus Christ. I hope that you got some help in that in many different areas tonight, whether it be creation, whether it be new apostolic reformation or Catholicism, I hope that what you listen to was helpful in that defense of the gospel until next week next week Matt will be back, and we'll be discussing more, and I should say while at the Philippines. I hope you enjoyed doctors federal because he's going to be filling in and he and Madame prime talking a lot about any are and the creation science because that'll be a big topic of with both of them. So look forward to that in a few weeks until next week. Remember to share this with other make sure that you're in here early next week, Thursday nights, eight o'clock, you can go to poject live dot com. See then.