174: Remembering Poulidor
You listening to the cycling podcast in association with Rafeh the fastest clothing in the world. Tour the home name cycling with character. Ride 'em watch with rapper in two thousand nineteen as they partner e F education fast and canyons throb where we are in the old Talbot in Oldie Talbot and which would have been pronounced. The old the old I think back in the day pronunciation medieval pronunciation creation police intervening here. Yeah the tube in Worcester we will be on stage in four hours time the Huntington hold old. This is no use to anyone listening to this because by the time you're listening to this will obtain onstage and come off again but we are midway through the first half of our grand tour of Britain. Two nights down three to go this week. Doubling tomorrow Belfast. Friday still tickets available if you want to come along although although I think very very close to sold out in Belfast on Friday you have Britain and Ireland. Of course Lionel Grant Britain our but. Yeah it's GonNa be really put onto key K in Ireland because someone someone would say about. Las Isn't Ireland that's debatable. So you can islanders better anything further to Francois My Name's Richard. Mur Lionel Bernie and that breathy girl Orla Shinui am with Francois Tommaso as well yes. I'm here the wonderful brilliant exit is there any sense of the evening performance kind of sapping our daytime energy. I don't know I duNNo. We're putting so much into it. I think you all be proud of this because I mean four hour before the show. We're in the pub and very nice perman you know. And it's is kind of puzzling because Riches having Coke Lounge having coffee all is still water. And I am having palliative. So I mean we're gearing up for the show no booze anything. Don't believe the same podcast on Tour Wild. We would just been very reasonable clean. Lean living right clean living at one of the reasons for our tour before we come with this week's episode when lots of news discuss in this week's episode not least the The ongoing hearing effort. Dr Richard Freeman Manchester. We'll get some reaction from that from somebody who who is Shane. Sutton's kind of bombshell. Oh testimony on on Tuesday and Raymond Poulidor has died. We heard about that today. We'll hear from Francois on that Dr a bit later on but we're launching. Shing are a book this week Grand Through Diaries. It was published on Monday. One thing we should say is not going to be available in Amazon. If you're wasting to buy on Amazon we are. We've kind of published ourselves so it's available at the cycling PODCAST DOT COM. If you click on book that will take you to the page where you can buy copies of the fifteen pounds enging post anywhere and Great Christmas present not too early to buy Christmas presents. It's our diaries from the two thousand eighteen thousand nine hundred grand tears and women's tour and we are ars Lionel said midway through our first week of our tour. We've got shows coming up in London then less their Cambridge Edinburgh and Manchester. We're going to be joined in London next week by Matt White Eight the following week by Adam bly and the new guest wrought ailing worth you. Balsam Bahrain Morita team. And he will join us on the twenty fifth of November Annan. Blind will be joining us again in Manchester on the thirtieth member tickets available at the cycling. PODCAST don't come but before we get into the some of the stories lining up for us. I have indeed. Well Richard. You mentioned Rim Poulidor. Who has passed away at the age of eighty three he he was nicknamed the eternal second? We'll get Francois's thoughts on that particular nickname in a little while but Poulidor rode fourteen editions of the two of the Franzen rounds and finished twelve of them a second three times and third five times including in his final tour which he wrote at the age of forty he was unfortunate in his career. Coincided sided with those of the two five time winners. Yeah Cockatiel and Eddie marks the only grand tour the pool or one list of welter in nineteen sixty four. He also milan-san remo but I suppose for cycling fans out there you may have seen Poulidor in arguably the most iconic photograph of cycle soccer racing ever taken really certainly one of them the moment on the weeded arm in the nineteen sixty four tour to France where he literally came shoulder to shoulder. If you Google Google you'll you'll be able to see I'm talking about is really spectacular image Poulidor also the first rider to undergo an anti-doping test at the Tour de France in nineteen eighteen sixty six. Maybe Francois we have a bit of information on that and despite the fact they never wore. The Tour de France is Yellow Jersey in his long career he the in recent years. I'm for for quite a long time. Was An ambassador brand ambassador for Credit Lyonnais Bank sponsored the Yellow Jersey and so every day at the tour we would. Let's see Poulidor in a yellow polo shirt. I wrote in the Grand Tour Diaries. About how that was just sort of slightly sideways tribute Butte Poulidor really making him wear a yellow polo shirt. Every day at the tour despite the fact he never actually put on the show and he has a very direct link to modern day cycling cycling or an impact future cycling because he is the grandfather of Matthew Vander Pol the current sensation because his daughter Corinne Married Address Audrey under Pol and the Dutch rider and Matthew Van Depose Farther Poulidor theme well since last month when he passed away in hospital in his hometown. San Bernardino Block so sad news and one really. We gather from false Y.. has created big waves in French media with lots lots of tribute so sticking with French. Cycling Roman Bar Day has announced directly as a result of Francois contribution to the grand daughter. Is I suspect that he is going to ride the jared Italian next year I will get Francois's thoughts on a little bit later. But I also took part in a cyclocross race in his hometown brewed at the weekend but the only got five hundred meters into the race before he had a problem with his handlebars. I think he's handlebars snapped. He'd race over another unfortunate incident. It happened again six last night. Mark issues racing there with the favourite Ilho. Kesse communist crashed oil. We went from under him in the the The flying one lap time trial so he missed the first medicine of the night but we got back on eastbound later on how return field of science. Ag To our. He wrote for Katusha this year. Dimension data has rebranded. NTT PRO CYCLING FOR NEXT SEASON AND AS unveiled a dark blue and Black Jersey. Does he looks a bit team. Sky Like the New Jersey for the team the cyclocross European championships the weekend Dutch double with Matthew Vander Pol retaining retaining his title making it three in a row and Yarra catalin dominating the women's race from start to finish really and finally Christian Doodo sack. He has been handed a four year ban. You may remember may remember. He was one of the riders caught in the operation at alas the bloodletting doping investigation centering during on Austria and Slovenia. But the big news of the week is this ongoing medical tribunal into the Conduct of Dr Richard Freeman Format Format team sky and British cycling doctor. And well we'll talk about that. In this episode the fastest clothing the world tour the home of cycling with character right and watch with rather in two thousand nine hundred nineteen as they partner e F education fast and Canyon strapped very much to Raf our title sponsor. Very grateful to them for their support. Hope to see some people from Rafeh at the shows in London possibly Manchester two and at well the peddler Sean had loosed. Sean t shirts formed part of our onstage. Said don't they still available. Rafeh Rafeh Dot. CC along with lots of other nice items of clothing. We're GONNA talk in this first part of the the Richard Freeman case which is on arrestee. Today we're speaking a day after. Unfortunately we were following it from afar. We will hear 'em in a moment or two from Tom Kerry Our colleague of the Telegraph Cycling Correspondent in Telegraph. Who was there in the room when Shane Sutton appeared and as a witness for the GMC the General L. Medical Council? He was questioned by an Mary. O'Rourke Richard Freeman. QC and well the headline really was she scraping him as a a a doper. A serial doper on a liar. And she really riled him appears and it appre ill-tempered exchange. Where he she turned back on? Mary O'Rourke accused her of being billy and when she accused him of being billy she read a some text messages including one from last week that he has apparently allegedly sent to Richard Freeman. I am saying be careful what you see I can drag you in. You won't be the only person I can heart. which was pretty damning? Hang on Shane Sutton. He eventually stormed having threatened to leave. He stormed out. We Gallon today. He will not appear on Thursday as he was originally scheduled to do. And you feel feel that he hasn't really been asked two questions that presumably freemen's team were going to put too which is feels like a missed opportunity. Steve Peters ethers who was the head of medicine at the time will appear instead and bought think it feels like an opportunity has been lost a little bit to really ask Shins some some of the most pertinent questions yes especially when we read You know some of the subjects came up steam to me to be totally unconnected relevant to this. You know did change something. No the amateur Ida Dan Stevens and the dubious Dr Mark Boehner. I'm really when you've got the former head of performance former British cycling. Shane Sutton that giving evidence. Somebody who was So deeply involved in team sky particularly in the period leading up to an an oft Bradley Wiggins winning the tour of France really integral figure did feel a little bit like a lost opportunity to ask them some direct a specific questions about the culture and Events of that period. It seemed to focus more on Sutton's character and I do understand the in in a case like this it's about establishing trustworthiness reliability and so on but if that is being the expensive actually hearing some proper evidence and I think ah easing opportunity wasted but the drama of the whole hearing all I've been talking about offshoot of dim and distant past covering court cases and the Frisson of drama and excitement when when you see the kind of the QC's cross examining or questioning the people who've been brought. Ah provide witness testimony. It is dramatic and just a picture in my head of Richard Friedman sitting behind the screen. Because he didn't want to be visible to Shane Sutton. And and and reading the transcripts as being published on twitter following the case in almost real time on twitter was was quite thrilling experience experience yesterday afternoon especially as you witnessed kind of suddenly losing his rag and melting down in the twin attack on Freeman in. You know on the one hand saying you you know you very good friend and a really good doctor and then on the other hand. Coding McCowan effectively asking for him to tighten the screen awake. You think you learned a lot. More about shame sums character from that day off noon then we actually have done about either the test. Oh Jail L. delivery or the general ethos conduct and And so on and British cycling team sky. Well let's hear from somebody who was in the room woman did witness Exactly what went on Tom. Kerry from the Telegraph. We'll tell you were in the room when Shane Sutton was being questioned during the Tribunal into your Freeman and. Can you describe how Shane came across. And the moment at which he seemed to become angry and finally lose his temper and storm. I it was pretty really. I think this this tensions were already running because Mareo rulebook news to QC representing Freeman had already told us. Oh told the tribunal in in the morning what. She was going to put it to Shane which was suspended explosive and she knew she was. It was pretty cute what she did that you know. She knew that that would be reported around lunchtime. And that would have got to Shane about that. And I think she was very confident that that was going to rile him and she was dead. Right right I mean she she. We knew that he had a phone burden. The quality of a couple of years ago and that he is going to set and took him actually nighttime to I take issue with the allegation that he and his career and that he was a serial liar such a and he restraint in the League knowing how questions and just you know taking her on that point and starting to run and more than once felt that you know he might do what he eventually did which was to get up and walk out but he you know they. They managed to sort of he was. He was just a painting the debate he was he was sitting with his back to us to the gallery looking and it was. There was a real sense of face about it. Because he was looking straight to the tribunal panel and to his rights That would be his noise for the GMC and the Left. That was a screen. You couldn't really see Mary a role Freeman who we presume sitting behind the screen on this casino. We never heard from him so there was this sort of strange at it would just feet away from each other bets. And you know He. He wasn't able. We weren't able to see Freeman until at various points during the tribal he would he. Would he would stop addressing Dr Freeman directly. He would start saying rigid. Just take the screen down to the screen down. Look in the eye. He was really thought to to lose it and they kept saying you know. Just keep on message onto the questions and he was able to do that ultimately And and yeah just build Delta laid to take a little recess at one point and sort of ten minute bright while the sudden went out and had a fag and then he came back in up again and that was stolen down. Six children have never seen anything like it. What's the upshot of it? I mean seems visit mayor wanted to rile him. That's the impression but did she managed to get all the questions to him that she would have wanted to put him presumably. Not You know I mean she said in the morning very clearly that she wants to day and a half. She'd need folded in half to get through a list of questions. What she had in? She said she had twenty seven pages ignites plans and the United. She was going through them one by one and so we were. He was booked to come back in on Thursday which she's now not going to do so presumably she didn't but then then again I think her goal was he said just was to roll him in her intention was is to discredit him as a character and to paint him as an unreliable person and as a buddy and in the sense they feed himself workshop and eventually stormed out of the the hearing. 'em shouting at Freeman. He was spineless. You know she. She may bill that she you go point across to the tribunal but it was it was pretty extraordinary point just to just adds the kids me on his way out the Polish at the door and said to the to the press and everyone you know we will suspending their mouth. A bit that was you had their officials officials that British cycling had been legal representatives and everyone was just sitting there bit stunned. He said I've got nothing to hide. You guys come and speak to me outside. I said there was this. Just sort of a sort of undignified. MP Two gallon side Beijing and then everyone was standing outside on the steps outsides. Jason Building in Manchester. Even after twenty minutes. Haven't come out from that. He might have gone back. into the. Who's the tribunal chaired? been saying that he was going to try and convince him to come back in a finishes his testimony so he's been united decision as to whether it's a good backup it was just. It was just one of those days. You know what I mean that completely lost control Charlotte East to the you know that sort of high profile hearing that. They didn't imagine that if any more in a more usually thirty medical misconduct hearings without the world's press an attack so it was a very strange day. So it's Tom Kerry there. I am fresh from his dramatic day of the GMC tribunal 'em Shane Sutton and that obviously is. The big story is all of a sudden. And it's not. It's kind of moved away from rich and Freeman and cases by which is about his conduct. His you know kind of mundane things like record. Kurt keeping as well. I say mundane obviously important for adults at to keep accurate records and but from a cycle view and this is what we talked about. Last week you know the the interest entrust of of people who follow cycling's really senses on this delivery of textile jail. What was it for? Who is it for and and you know I mentioned that tweeted? Did this This week as well about Freeman that couple years ago when I worked on a BBC documentary about cycling team sky. And some of the controversies around and them. At the time we met with rich femur couple of times and he was willing to come on feud and then not willing kept changing his mind but we had lengthy conversation with them on what was most clear was his fear of visceral fear He. He felt he'd been bullied by him but also close to him at times. And the only thing we can see that even what she said in the room yesterday that you know he was on the one hand it's up paying tribute to him on the other hand been quiet and pleasant towards him and and it was quite striking relate. The the whole the Sutton seem to have over Freeman when we spoke to a couple of years ago and in that sense. Mayor Rourke doc Dr Freemen's. QC has a very good job. Actually because while the media attention has been around she and Simpson and the drama and the theatrics and the almost farcical nature. It yesterday and him storming. That's not going to take away from the hearing itself because we can make all the noise that we like to the very used to dealing with the bread and butter in the meeting. Badger however you WANNA set of these actual cases and part of what she had to prove that he wasn't a I guess that he wasn't reliable necessarily witness but also that he did have this hold over Freeman and that he was able turn in the way that Freeman would have suggested what he displayed in court. Yesterday was very classic bullying behavior where he said that he's a good guy. He's a friend of mine. Richard Take down the screen. Let me look in the eye at B. Amount about it and getting more aggressive in calling him spineless. At the end that is part of what she had to establish that it was a missed opportunity in a sense because she kind of known that he was going to walk out halfway through. But as you say line we've covered revolver lots of court cases in our time and that is part of Cross examination where you've got to build the scene you've got to set the scene you've got to set the witness up when you have to run them to be able to get to the important matters and it is. It's important to say that he that he did deny the test jealous for him and that's what she needed to get. You need to get that answer right of him whether he ordered it or not we can say we all knew he was going to deny it anyway. But you've got to trust in the process of of this system and she does have that denial on record so she's on a lot of what she had to do but in terms wider culture. And what we all want journalists on the ice. I tried to get a better idea of the culture within British cycling NAS not been answered but I'm not sure to freemen's actual fitness to practise. This kiss I think that's exactly right. Mary Rox job there is no actually to find out All of the things that we want to know her job is to defend her client as best as possible Sabur and and so you. You're absolutely right especially when this is not quite the same power criminal court case you know. Shame something. He's not compelled to return. Where if you were in you know if you go to give evidence in a court case you have to come back until the judge you satisfied? So that's why I'm in by the sense. From our point of view it feels like a missed opportunity because we want to know that the fundamental facts of what went on and who custodio in order for how it came to be delivered to British cycling headquarters. What happened to it they? They are questions that have to be satisfied at some point and at the moment this feels it was like the best way of cheating Unless of course you anti-doping take this on after this hearing is concluded Francois Hoses playing in France Jason Elsewhere. There's just been a rather long story in in licked yesterday about about it but more on the grounds that you know Look look look look what a mess Tim. Sky And Autumn Yours have been enough become and you know the success story and everything that that's it's been kind of Rodwell derived in France like you know as you know Chris Room and the other teams rod as popular and tour for for quite a while. And I it K- kinds of these story kinds of you know goes to confront the you know the the the guys don't like teams kind France it the impression that you know behind the scenes be under the success story not not such a big happy family after all and and ready for the image of of the team in. What's been achieved by the team to have this kind of scenes and this this kind of exchange of of of words and phrases like sue serial liar and doper? I mean you know it. It's the the I think. The impact on the image of Tim show has been thanks for the past three of three or four years damage but this is not doing doing it any good at all a now back to the dude to story self. I don't think it's the role of this panel. Unfortunately line on to to to get into the the their role is to decide whether it Richard fee as Dr as misbehavior. Not and. Maybe maybe the way Mary O'Rourke was maybe she did a great job. But you know showing the body in the story. Is Shane Sutton Banal. There's another hearing on Thursday and there's no like scapegoat. NEIDL Richard Freeman against the panel. And maybe she should have taken a little bit more time to to to you too light to rule out since out of the way because not now now is Richard Frith Thursday. That's tomorrow with Richard Freeman on his own against the panel and that may be he would get to newly bit more. I don't know well see pizzas as well has been called a witness for the GMC. A very different character to Shane Sutton. I don't imagine him. MM storming I I. I mean the one thing that's been hinted not as the the vast freemen's team of ice for this affidavit. The the Daily Mail apparently have which has been signed by Shane Southern and she never got to that and got to Watson that M. A. Now seems clearly to be important important to this case it might just be about Shane's character and his trustworthiness and the rumors gestures Watson that contradicts. What oh he said to the? DCMS 'EM in the House of parliament which could launch him in in hot water. I don't see the Daily Mail giving out in this affidavit. As as you say Francois is not a court so the Perez can unlimited. You know it's for anybody following the story. He is for this story. And I've I've said for a long time. Now that a lot of this all the Jiffy Viceroy. Everything love it. I think boils down to people falling Richard Freeman and and change something in particular the circumstances around Sheen Sutton's departure from British cycling the aftermath of that Richard Freemen's rule with just Farnese for example and pull and there were other reasons for him and and Change Sutton's fall. I am and the thing that will some of that will come into light eventually somehow or other. But we'RE NOT GONNA get no from Shane in this in this shoot that. I'll do tightening and cars team car in the back of the facts lease. We need to tell you that. This week's episode is sponsored by LACO. Lucca who are they lionel. Well Richard Richard Locker is a smarter way of insuring. Your bikes in gear. It's a community of cyclist joining together to play fair and take good care to save each other money. Lacquer covers all the basics theft accidental loss and damage. 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It's in their our interest and they only make money when they pout claims. which is the exact opposite to the insurance industry is not in their interest to pay claim so a really light the concept there they it cover the full value of my bikes? I feel very confident. Having had a claim with them that I'd have nothing to worry about that. If there's a problem they'll they'll pay that out straight away. Lacquers Carr's members have saved sixty one percent on their bike insurance bills. And that's money that could be spent on a new piece of kit or put towards a training camp trip so if he wanted to find out more about laughter Goto lack dot co Dot. UK that La don't Co dot UK. Francois Side News to wake up to this morning. Raymond Tempur or young man. Certainly he was very much present at the Tour de France. Even this year's race he was there every day in the village. Very very recognizable figure famously. His great rival was Jack. Honk Attiyah died in one thousand nine hundred seven and there's a great story or you know famous story about Ah Poulidor visit thing until on his deathbed and on until m singer Bethan you again Raymond or where it's not fact and so he's you you know. He had a long life and he was extremely popular and the guests for somebody who never even wore the Yellow Jersey and may have regarded his you. You know his career record and the tour is almost a series of failures and he ended up being one of them was celebrated cyclist in history. It was it's it's difficult to imagine. I mean as we were discussing that I mean it amounts for for for Brits were to Bobby Charlton Dine Welke. Bobby Charlton one had to work and sixty six but the the no that does it too far as a two fold story you know in because you must bear air in mind that you put and uncle and they go together. It's kind of a that. That's a little bit. What's missing inside these days and might be? What's the reason why Chris from is not as popular as it could be because maybe it apart from the year when you read the two with Bradley wiggins that's never been that rivalry that it went on forever new federal model say the Gopi Batali even you know bio Montizo Ordonio? There was lots of little rivalries. I like that in in various countries and really the story of the was for longtime The story of that rivalry between the elegant. A stylish kind of upper class posh as US called a might say Uncle Teal and the guy from the countryside the gut from the from the from the you know the the humble guy who worked out together there and it happened in the sixty s at a time when really ruled France again against you know urban Franz were kind of facing one another and the problem with we we seek today. I mean it's all over the place the insiders the outside as you know the the small town people Poland the great divide between you know this is already exist in the sixties and Montpellier dot embodied that image of France. That for fun of what. What that? There's always been a misconception that the Francois Loved Women Prideaux because we have would have some kind of a romantic craving for loses. But it's not it's not the case but what was was very popular because because he started from nothing yet were called and almost got there but in the end it's it's impossible you blocked and let's impression loss of French. People today with a genre others have like they work hard and do their best then. Good almost talk dot they come they come get to the one percent to they come they come break. That's class barrier and that's the thing that really made pooh-pooh such that there was. I mean creek. There were there. Were words great for him like you know on twin blow now was famous journalist writing off fully keep on the Tour de created poupularity. You know it was because that that that's that is it really was it and Budi though at becoming France arena word like you would say so and so's the Poulidor of French politics or so and so is the put it or for a friend's Sean saw it become the symbol of the second-best the runner-up Saliba unfair as Salon Pointed out one. I think nearly one hundred fifty races in these pro career. You WanNa Welzer one flesh. Woolen milan-sanremo parents lots of lots of racism once again the wreck on owner of podium finishes in on the Tour de France. I know there's not that many rods could be seen and presented are as loses. When you've you've won so much but it has everything about that? Humility is face. I mean once once again it was a sixty s I mean the the the look of these guys i. I was looking at pictures this morning. That the way that the face is I mean they made your impression. Riders were made from different breeding. That era with their. You know they don't make them like this anymore. You know they're even the Hamilton insist on that. I mean they started as nothing the ACA year style. Something from another era which is quite. I mean wh when we're on tour here with the signing plus we've got this Tanny Jerseys you'll know listen to the podcast. How these the Jersey from period the buys everything around only paraphernalia is is so romantic? Pulido was at the very heart of on on this so today I was reading the press. I mean president macro and all my friends on very you know very social networks from all kind of backgrounds. They're all morning that guy I because he was he belongs to our culture. He belongs to To what our parents were with all an career spans so I I was so long in a way because he was third in less tour of forty so which is something that really belongs to house a household. Not only name is a house figure. I mean everybody as you say even last year on the tour. You know I've got my little mascot which I call Durham Pootie or and I am a magistrate. All all these for a picture in it was like the Michelin Man. This is really really belongs to the to be the image of front. So yeah it's a great loss for the full national psyche. I Guess Yeah I think wow Daniel on twitter and here with us on the first part of the grand tour unconventional. He's joining us for stage seven but I mean that's the way Daniel gives me Orca challenge exactly but he. He made a comment about poodles physical appearance and stature. Really a toll man even as a young man but and you're absolutely right Francois and and Daniela well just seem to be from something. Matt made something you know a little bit different of leather skin beak sausage fingers Sort of Next made of Oak. Just sort of sullied lead honest material sturdy. It looks thirty. You couldn't imagine them you know. Finish on the podium of tonight because he sat almost and again the contrast with unconcealed who was so elegant and graceful and long limbs and beautifully coiffured hair. He also looked differently was he was a contrast you know in a way was made of the same material. You know that that does all these this issue of guy from the farm and you know the guys from the fun writing them. Bison becoming riders. I mean it's physics. Apparently the legend says Might be the reason why he was always second with three and on the tour because apparently when he was You know when it was making toxins engine when he was This is body was was was struggling. Apparently is skin color. Change to kind of Greenish Gray and always rivals knew that that and when they saw oh look at look at who is not is his Kim. Is You know copper again. And that's when the attacks him so I don't know what's true with it but it might be Might be right. I mean I heard that a couple of times from guys from the time I mean he was most famous for for for losing. You know not not obviously doesn't tell the full story. About a lot of athletes. Writers Eagles would would have a hard time dealing with that and he was there at the tour you know to the to his last year and as a as a famous can figure also as a novelty in a way and how did he was. He reconciled that was he told her about these missed opportunities on the fact that he didn't ever win. The tour is clearly capable of it now he was was. It doesn't that's doubles. Yeah that's two things you know. I think he resented not not wearing the Jersey ones. There's another anecdote once you a an after the career they did because they were really modern rivals already look strong. Iniquity like like Fisher Freeman at a great rivalry of the day and and and put it on there. They really hated one either. Because the that'd been very nasty moments between the modern reconsolidate became good. Friends You know after the career and there's a story of the night when the while I'm cooking the bone vivere as you say in English movie vase. We think French another difference once but anyway So they were empty place and he got very drunk and still insisted that. Put it all to come put on the Yellow Jersey in and pull the wooden. Didn't say no. No No. I shouldn't do that. I mean you kind of respected the Georgia to almost too much to wear it and and so I think he resented the problem is it was very unlike luckier in career. Like nine hundred sixty eight. It was two days away from winning the tour anywhere. Got You know it's by men motto bike on on the flat stage and I mean the trouble more than within within grasping at one eight and many many times like Lana was mentioning. Nine hundred sixty four climb climbed up a pewter dome when it came thirty seconds short of the Jersey and then he collapsed again the next day. Nineteen sixty five. The the tour was actually formed. was not writing it and the last minute reinforcement in the talent team. A young GEICO FELICIA demonte should not have taken party in Detroit. Did he wanted. I mean there was but I think that's what makes a real champion like unconcealed or Chris from Eddie Murphy. I mean the guys who did it it is the special is presided that you you kind of make your own luck and maybe put. It was not didn't have said many times is I probably would have made less money and I wanted to Even once you know that makes my image was was much stronger as the eternal journal. Second and was saying okay. I want also on a couple of races Bu- and more than a couple of races but you said you know signed brought me so much much from where I started without cycling. I would have stayed in my village. Being a farmer for forever I would not have seen the world changed me completely. So how why line. How could I complain about my life so I yeah Indian? I never ever heard. I've met many many many sometimes a never ever heard complain about anything or about you know unconcealed been nasty or or losing. The two remaining accepted his fate. Because because I mean this fate compared to where story from was amazing reading. I like how you said. He's most famous for coming second in the Dutch media. Today's as most famous for being matthew. If you've under pools grandfather's like they're sort of claiming him as one of their own and it was the second story on on. Telegraph did Telegraph and Sports. TSK pages and they're all playing up. Guess that that heritage that he's left behind in the lineage an pointing out how great it was that he was able to witness the goal this year and that he was in Brussels goals for Mike Tournus in having the Jersey. INYAMBO visas fantastic early days in this tier two friends and I just think it'll be wonderful to see hopefully Matthew Vanderhall paying tribute to him over the next year. Certainly think any risks wins sending the next race when I would imagine it'd be dedicated and his grandfather's owner should be lovely as we mentioned because just to finish finish on that either chance with you guys at an arrogant to interview much under pulls are- at much wounded pool like like the lesson a meter away from me and the silt similarites eighteen in their faces. It was absolutely striking almost frightening. You know so. Please don't leave zone but Vander Pol seems to have a a ruthless streak. Perhaps when comes to racing the maybe his grandfather didn't have because I think you know what the guy the guy who was in the village every day at the tour he never got board or remotely resentful seem to me obese basis. Same questions for forty years about you know what was it like to be the eternal second he must be. I saw every day in the village. And he you know. He came across his quite humble and nice guy founder. pull 'em has perhaps that ruthless strong -til her. Oh sure I mean I think there was just just a kind man you know and as I said before I mean quite controversial easier because you know Was Remember I was saying Garin Thomas combinatorial Nice Nice Guy But yes whatever is harder for guys to win the tour Reconciled was not a nice guy who is not a nice guy. I don't think the the guy's really go go for it. Grew real champions or already think about next wins. I think I was more thinking about well. It's you know what it's like I. He was schooled stingy or Leno. Look doing this for money but I mean once again one. You've studied as a poor guy in a poor family Can you be in a d. You shouldn't be ashamed of making money and making maybe sometimes money more important than Gloria Sean. Kelly was was also criticised for that they belong to the kind of regional. They really worked hard. Could come from very very difficult backgrounds and I mean what what these guys the title Rondos achieve disease is more than respectable marable. Cycling podcast is supported by science and sport. Sciences Johnson. Sports fueled by science. Thank you very much to scientists sport for their support of the cycling podcast and you can get twenty five percent off. All your scientists sport products scientists sport dot Com with the Code S. I S C P twenty five. Sis Ep twenty-five at Science and Sport Dot com now or lot looks like she's instagram. Or your La Hi. Hi wonderfully perceptive of Ye writer Richard. She's he's putting me on the Internet without my consent. Absolves doing is par for the course. I'm now on the news today. Well it it was I think that Rembert. They has been an early. Customer has bought a copy of the gratitude is because in Francois Rights by his poor France is worse since twenty thirteen. You write Francois if I make if I may quote. Since his pro debut he only rode the Vuelta ones and has yet take part and the Jiro has consistently good results in age by age has second-places strategy and key on the world's in two thousand eighteen have so more versatile writer he could be with his friends runs. Monomania Bardy is a clever young money. Hopefully be able to reinvent himself as a cyclist and find new goals and motivations the tour might not be one of those wonderfully prescient Francois and Lo and behold bar day. Says he's GonNa ride the next year. Missed a tour and then right the Olympic Games. Yeah I mean it's Clever I. I'm in that as I also saying the book I mean there. There was a moment which is quite amazing. Actually when he actually called editorial team manager of the celebrities after last year's tour to say that's it. I'm out of it. I am quitting giving site in altogether. Which is very strange for a guy who's driving and worked so hard to really? I think there was a misconception. From the Saudi was misguided and away. Well he was second so he but I think there's much more to home combated and just a tool contender and I'm really really happy to see him. Doing something completely. Different Lionel said is trained site. Across is he's going to do the Jeremy Earth Cycle. But I mean you know you might do a couple of others if he has the chance he really wants to. Something different is going to do the Jiro it. It was a disgrace that a a writer stallion at never done it is during the welzer again. in the meantime the Olympics. It's very bumpy. Ride any licensed one day. Rice is with the real goal to go for. And and you know the core to seem lot signed for the words so Yeah maybe the most clever of a program is Ed since the star is pro career. So let's expect good things from the and I think with the Olympic rodrigue coming so soon after the third funds we might see a few other writers opt to take a similar approach to the Olympics. Writing the Jiro and the Olympics. Stephen Chanson Nibley to did I see. Now he's trek siegfried on I. I think he may well be following the same program and that it makes it makes sense doesn't it. I'm going to be difficult to go to the tour. On a few days later contend for the address. I can only hope that the attract some big exciting names next year because it wasn't the most thrilling edition this year and all the big names this here at least so the storm not three day. It did I mean my fear for the for next year was is is the length of so many of these stages the fills me that but if not that I'll be saying that on the eve of the Year of course bill the most exciting race that we're that we're going to a long time but with well just on that all I think one of the things we were talking about the the contrast between the Jira and now the tour and of welter seems to be a deliberate strategy of our our venue to make because his quote supporting the the twenty twenty rule that I was one of the grand tours has to be extreme endurance tasks them with ten stages over two two hundred kilometers. It certainly that and I wonder Bar Day. A diesel isn't he doesn't he doesn't mind long races is it. Could be the the challenge of. Jiro suits him better than the pressure. Cooker of the tool. Three Time Trials Sean Bardai specialty rotate and I'm hoping that's a good thing because if it was just decided on these long diesel necessary stages and then it would be quite dulcimer hoping those the time trials break things up a little bit. But you would imagine that. That's where for Bar Day. He would have to have a little bit of caution but yet I mean it's it's nice to see neom the county jail at least and the thing you said about. This is okay won't Thompson. He's not a specialty. But I mean some of them Donald so no so so hard for him and and the last week is likely in exactly the kind of stages like long difficult with very long climbs. That's worries his Bel- is best at. If you lose lots of time phones while you go for stage wins and and you know an APP lines to his record. And if doesn't so much Siamese be beautiful recommend within the third week so anyway we really needed to reinvent himself and I think he's taking the right approach if it doesn't pay off this You know this season and the season a new roderick new perspective and that's one mutters. Writers listing are looking for tips hints about what they're actually should their careers and lots more words from Francois in the grand tour. Diaries available now not in all good book shops available from the Mike Grimm. PODCAST DOT COM. I should mention before we go as well. Our Final France special twenty thousand nine has been released. This week is a two parter. And it's one of our our guest edited episodes. Willie Martina one of our listeners. who very generously supports the podcast and with a bit of extra money each this year as a few of you do and you'll submitted ideas Williams was great? It was about how to how to create a team. Culture and given the unique challenges of professional cycling brings in some of his own working experiences in the episode and we hear quote from the couldn't quickstep and also from Rod ailing worth about how he's going to try and create a winning culture barring rain reader for Friends of the podcast. We'll be launching twenty twenty quite soon. We will indeed with a new delivery system which promises to be a a lot easier for people to operate system that we have persevered with over the years. We've had lots of comments over the years about why the fringed podcast paywall always slightly clunky for some people to operate. Well the reason for that is. We're not point speakers Amazon. We get developed that sort of technology and it doesn't actually really exist where it hasn't existed so we've had to kind of go looking for it and we think we found a solution which hopefully will make a lot easier for people to sign up and listen to that two thousand nine hundred ninety episode of Friends of the cost. I should also give an early warning that at some point the twenty fifteen two thousand nineteen material will come off-line and we'll get plenty of notice of that but people will at some point after download any episodes they want to save. We may well kind of best off collection collection on the new system. We haven't quite gone into details on that yet but we will do before Christmas. I think folks have better get ready for Huntington Hall in Worcester. I'm going have Get ready get get warmed up their vocal exercises probably going to little Siesta before that left Well thanks very much for joining us. Francois and there're still tickets available for our shows in Belfast. Very nearly sold out but London on the team one on the Twenty Fifth Cambridge on the Twenty Six edinburgh on the twenty seven. Th that's also very nearly sold at Leicester on the twenty ninth twenty eight sorry and Manchester on the thirtieth promotes Lionel. Thank you Richard. Thank you ORLA. Thank you very much. Happy Birthday. Play with but then you sell sell. You've been listening to you. The cycling podcast subscribe subscribe to a newsletter at cost. COMTE get all the latest news and special offers delivered straight to your inbox. This episode was edited and produced by Tamales.