Is it a Game or Is it an Activity
Hey, listen. And welcome to another Tom Tate top the show where we discuss points that are important to the gaming community, or at least the two of us and sometimes top five list times when replaying sometimes we like to just talk and talk and talk joining me as always we have, Danny. I enjoy Via's always is Trevor good morning. So we'd like to open up with a little bit of oh letter week plan. So at any what you've been planning I could play the game. It's pretty one by any sorts gives and it's called the mind where the idea of the lane is you guys are essentially playing the numbers cooperatively from one to one hundred sending order, and there is no communication. You just have to find a way to communicate without communicated at just know if I was playing this this number now, I have to play before you. Landover that is higher. When do I think you would play in that sounds strange, but it's really need thing of like finding way to just sit there and communicate this idea of while I'm not gonna play for a while. Because I have high numbers you've probably should before me unless you have numbers, which as I don't know what we're gonna do. And it's it's a fantastic game. I've had a lot of fun playing it. And there's always a moment where we just sit. Backing each other know, what are we doing here? It's it's hilarious every time. So I've been playing the mind. What have you been? I've been playing a very very indepth intricate game coal Blackstone fortress by games workshop. It is a the newest entry in knee wermer quest line tons and tons of miniatures. It's a little bit of a exploration game. As there's things you can discover play a lot of death in its adventure storytelling characters die permanently plus back to life. Lots of play. So that's what we've been playing a to get into our topic this week. You may in our picks. We are going to be discussing the pros and cons. If you will of a game that is more of an activity versus action game with winner loser. That so I will be taking these site of pro game. I'll the side of pro technically conduct but from a timidly as a game. So now, it's a pro and con of one topic where each take a pro of two separate topics and try to the con- of its posing. So to start off with. I like to think of it like this. I would not call hostage were jump. Rope. A game it is an activity now, you can have fun doing it too. I myself did improv will over ten years, and we would play a little short form games. Like you'd see whose line is it anyway where the still better yet. Everything's made up the points. Don't matter where you're trying to do things like get through the ABC's and someone has to start by saying a, but you can't say who's gonna go next needle clock by C. Start a else in groups beat someone else. See but ever to people the same thing at the same time. It got start back over and yet it can be fun to have an activity. But in the ends is there a winner is their leisure, you know, even with a cooperative game like Blackstone fortress. There's very clear definitions of who won and who lost you're working together. But did you beat the game where the game beat you? There's a sense of compliment that comes with an actual game. There's a competitiveness where even if the competition twenty players it's a competition of trying to achieve your goal victory. Versus just end of existing in the end, you kind of look at yourself ago. Well, that was fun. But what are the gain from that? Let's all I've heard a definition once said that made sense where basically the difference between activity in the game is whether there's a define victory condition. And and also heard also the same argument is the difference gave if you have a choice ter- thing if you don't have a choice in it than it's considered more activity or do choices than it's Warwick game. I I can see both arguments. But I disagree with both. I think a game boils down to if people have fun playing it that it could be a game of it doesn't have to have a defied victory condition. Doesn't have a winner or loser. Although like, something the mind is a good example of that there you are working cooperatively. You can lose their isn't objective that you are completed. But I I've heard the argument that some people some name is just like that. I am not playing that is a game to Timite wool. So you don't play activities like not toys growing up. Like is not okay. I'm like, you can still have fun with that. I give you permission. But you know, you don't just because it's not defined as the game doesn't mean that fun with it. And therefore that doesn't mean it's not a game. Just because you don't think it falls in that definition. I don't know if you have any examples that that disapprove that. But I think even have just as much fun playing activity and calling it a game as you could with a normal game. Interesting now to me, I've always I guess define a game as something that you can learn from something that you can take away from versus, you know, an activity could be something like connect the dots. Is it a game? Not a pseudo is an activity. Did I really learn anything take anything away again toll story about hey, you know, patrons three my Sadako, but she still working on. But to me a game is, you know, you have a story to tell from it even something that a lot of people have defined Moore's activity role playing games young, you know, very odd their Sony different RPG's others like the dread system that just uses changing there's a very loose set of rules to it. But it still a because. Yes, there is that choice. Yes. There is that failed state. But you can tell story from you can see that you are a different person. Coming out from that experience any were winning going into it. So you can have a moment to kind of say you beat the final and boss wizard, and it was all down to you and your car drawn table, they had dead to rights manage to sneak out that victory now, maybe it was not the actual game play that managed. Maybe you have leeann master. But you still got tell story up you still got to something to take away from necks -perience, and that to me's really defines a game versus even something like a Tenzin that yet there's choice. Yeah. There's a clear winner losers. I guess but really rolling Ted vice and the first one to make all the numbers match wins. Do I have a story to tell about that? Absolutely. Not because it was. Yeah. This one kind of dice with brands and I managed to get ten sixes. I. I think a good example that the there's a game that I just got a game that I just got recently called impact in its rehabilitation of a game called strike, and the ideas like you rolled dice into this. Trae assert one of the sides in impact. As example, there's five elements one inside of a Blake side your goals to not run out of dice before anybody else. You wanna be the last person standing, so when you stole a die into their land on something if it matches element that's already in the Drake, you take it out. And you score that they can choose to keep going. If you want part of the game is like not the other guys to do that. But if you get a blank side on any of those removed from the game, and you don't get a benefit from that. It's a technically all you're doing is Chuck dice into Trey your only choices whether you continue or not whether that there's a little bit as involve. But I've heard that a lot of people are really debating on whether that's considered a game because you don't have a choice over the strategy. Sure. Like, you you don't really have a story, but I've been finding that it's a really enjoyable thing to play especially when somebody like knocks over one dying gets three of a kind and empties the train that causes the next plane. Don't all day said, which is hilarious when that happens because it's a little nerve racking for them. But they're probably gonna come away with some pairs or something, you know, it should be fine. But it doesn't mean it will be it. It's a really enjoyable game. But just because of the fact that it doesn't have a story light theme is by all means dry. There's no reason for that theme. I think it still has a lot to go with of being enjoyable a intens e you know, like, it's it's hard to say that game. I can see why people enjoy it on the fact of of crazy frantically chucking dining who doesn't like that. It's the same reason why you technically jump roping as an activity, but if you're gonna jump roping tournament, you know, go longer that's game in that point. And it's probably enjoyable for people who like jump Ruben. So so another thing that has to be addressed. I guess is. We're also seeing this in in the world of digital gaming to where you have this term. Walking. Excuse me. I hate that term where people are saying, oh, it's not a game because you're just walking through this house in in your, you know, clicking on phasing in reading little note cards continue one. I've had better experiences with things that a lot of people wouldn't quantifies gain than action games where you know, play something like dark souls that that know criminal creme of games when people talk about video gaming end, anyhow something like gone home. That's literally you walking through a house and discover that your sister has run off to be with the love of her life. When the whole time you're thinking, she's dead in the attic. With spoilers if you haven't played gone home by now, then it's like four years. Just in case if you heard this now, forget it pause. The video play the entire game for activity of going. Yes. It's Illinois minutes playing on home. And then come back outback in the remember what you heard spoiler. But meanwhile, things that are. So a perfect example in why I picked. This game to talk about was Blackstone fortress. It isn't many juice game there or combat scenarios to play through with a grid and a aboard speak of your figures moving around doing combat trained. Eliminate the enemies. Get to the elevator move on the next challenge. The challenges aren't always combat the some of them are just simple role. Trated this thing if you will of number you pass. But the Mattingly is the story of we've gone onto the next level. All sudden a door locks in front of us ways in gas starts to spew in we need to try to unlock the door. Only this one character can can have the door panel and try to get us through. So that we don't all died on Deepal. Excellent fortress and can get back to our own base. And even that in and of itself, even though it's not necessarily a game is a role digital the thing. It's still has so much more of an impactful in because through this combat through these adventures through these challenges you are forming a bond or forming a relationship with your character in one to seat him succeed. You wanna see the hero's journey pleaded that to me is where it gained truly shines where you can say, I was this person. Or I did this thing I managed to complete this insurmountable task. Versus you know, even jump rope competition sometimes people that you know, I injured nitric on jump three. That's a terrorist. Yep. It at the same time. Well, I mean, yours at least four of the the thing is I feel like people label activity or label games at athletic activity story tone as activties in order to say that just an excuse for me never to play them. Or if I end up playing and have fun. I've just redacting what I'm saying. I just proven myself wrong. And I feel like people have that stigma like alternative, it's not a real game. So what I'm saying is that just because a an activity is labelled as such doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it doesn't mean you can't call it a game because calling it an activity as opposed to a game in China to get these define terms is just making you. Basically like your frayed to counteract or contradict yourself by doing that. Like, I mean, if I if I saw like I imagine like the alpha gamer like I would never play Tenzin activity that game. Like, I am edges walking in on the one day. The Cliett like ruling giggling crazy. That's not a game. It's tippety. You didn't see anything I feel like a loud interact with they would be doing that. Like that. It's like sure playing video game by yourself. Like that story. Like, I don't I wouldn't call going home an activity. I think it is a game. Even though there's no real ratchet that that there's no fail state. There's no choice necessarily. I mean, kind of not really of. But getting that version in it white tin, you say that that's. That's why worry about people saying of active versus a game. I'm self. You told me tons of stories about happy Sam what I want to find that as a game not necessarily time seven fame. Eight people running around table acting like complete total. Yeah. He still awesome bids fed test. Could I game is amazing? So that's kind of our our pointing counter points with activity versus game. I hope you enjoyed watching this or listening to it. If you stood on podcast down below please first off hit the subscribe button. 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We will gain that you get is a card. What Jonah class you play in all each e?