Ep. 409: The Chocolate-Covered Peanut Butter Tower (The Mueller Report, pt. 4)
Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen. Hello again. Welcome back to don't worry about the government's. My name is Chris Dovan, Brunell, and this is episode four in our series. That is looking at the mullahs report on today's episode will beginning section for which is entitled Russian government links to and contacts with the Trump campaign and that begins on page sixty six and this episode will be going through about page. Eighty on the next episode. We'll pick up with George popadopoulos but under days episode. We get to talk about Trump Tower Moscow, which is a story. I have been waiting to see flushed out on the molar side. There's been great reporting done by propublica. That is talked a lot about the financing more has further illustration and coloring in of this story and it paints quite the picture. On the Russian side of a multifaceted operation that involve the Trump Tower Moscow that was you'd both as a business project. But also had a clear political component that the Trump campaign was where of but the Russian government was definitely wear of. And at the same time as all of this is going on you have the campaign done by the GRU and the campaign dumb by the IRA and this active Asian of this network. And there's this real question that starts to arise as IRA through the section of what is the aim of the Russian government in all of this because what does appear obvious as we get to the end of this chapter. And I guess this is Molly skull Torey for don't Trump is that he's not a Manchurian candidate. He is being used as a Patsy in some sort of play by the Russians that we still don't have a full picture of. But what? What is clear is that the subject of Russian election? Interference remains a very touchy subject for Donald Trump. A man who is totally innocent of all this Russian election interference stuff right as I'm going to tape today. The Newark times is reporting that in the months before Cureton. Nielsen was forced to resign. She tried to focus the White House on one of her highest priorities as homeland security secretary preparing for new and different forms of interference in the twenty twenty election. President Trump's chief of staff told her not to bring it up in front of the President Mrs Neilson left the department of homeland security earlier this year after a tumultuous sixteen month tenure intentions with the White House officials said that she had become increasingly concerned about Russia's continued activity in the United States during and after the twenty eighteen midterm elections raging from its search for. For new techniques to divide Americans using social media to experiments by hackers to rerouting internet traffic. And and this is one that I've been falling for awhile infiltrating power grits. But in a meeting this year, Mick Mulvaney. The White House chief of staff made it clear that Mr. Trump still acquitted any public discussion of malign Russian election activity with questions about the legitimacy of his victory. According to one senior administration official mister Mulvaney said it, quote, wasn't a great subject and should be kept below his level. Even though the department of homeland security has a primer responsibility for civilian cyber defence miss. Nielsen eventually gave up on her effort to organize a White House meeting of cabinet secretaries to coordinate a strategy to protect next year's elections. As a result. The issue did not gain the urgency or widespread attention that president can command, and it meant that many Americans remain unaware. Of the latest versions of Russian interference. So here we have don't Trump playing hear no evil Sinoe evil, speak no evil yet again when it comes to Russian election interference. And that was of course, one of the most quizzical things whether many quizzical things from that summit in Helsinki last year, right? Don't Trump is standing next to let him you're Putin. And not only does he say he doesn't believe that the Russians did any sort of election interference in the two thousand sixteen campaign. And this is after having been the president of the United States for many years getting classified intelligence briefings that only the president of the United States gets. Thank you, Mr President. You tweeted this morning that it's US foolishness stupidity. And the Muller pro that is responsible for the decline in US relations with Russia. Do you hold Russia at all accountable or anything in particular? And if so what would you what would you consider them? That they are responsible for. Yes, they do. I hold both countries responsible. I think that the United States has been foolish. I think we've all been foolish. We should've had this dialogue along time ago longtime, frankly before I got to office, and I think we're all to blame. I think that the United States now step forward along with Russia, and we're getting together, and we have a chance to do some great things whether it's nuclear proliferation in terms of stopping have to do it alternately. That's probably the most important thing that we can be working on. But I do feel that we have both made some mistakes. I think that the the probe is a disaster for our country. I think it's kept us apart. It's kept us separated. There was no collusion at all. I don't know how you could read the Trump Tower Moscow section impossibly come away with that conclusion. Everybody knows it people are being. Out to the four so far that I know virtually none of it related to the campaign, and they're gonna have to try really hard to find somebody that did relate to the campaign that was clean campaign. I beat Hillary Clinton easily, and frankly, we beat her, and I'm not even saying from the standpoint we won that race. And it's a shame that they can even be a little bit of cloud over it, people know that people understand it, but the main thing, and we discussed this also zero collusion, and it has had a negative impact upon the relationship of the two largest nuclear powers in the world. We have ninety percent of nuclear power between the two countries. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. What's going on with the pro? Now, if you're watching this on television at the time, this is one of those statements that didn't make any sense back then, but it makes even less sense now. Bob Muller would have. Had to have been a time traveler and travel bat from the year twenty eighteen to the year. Twenty fifteen upset the Russian somehow or made let Putin aware of his existence as a special counsel in the future from the year twenty eighteen why would Bob more go to Russia and twenty fifteen seems like we're pleased to go. If you had a time machine, you just have to run with it. And then Vladimir Putin would have been like I'm going to have to create the internet research agency and tell the GRU to create unit two six one six five. So we can do these operations during the election, but they're not going to be successful anyways because Bob Bowers going to exist. He's going to time travel back to me. And now, we're in a time loop, and we all know the time. Whoops, don't work for president. As well. Why should Americans and why should President Trump? Believe your statement that Russia did not intervene in the twenty sixteen election, given the evidence that US intelligence agencies have provided and will you consider extraditing the twelve Russian officials that were indicted last week by US grand jury. I'm gonna let the president answer the second part of that question. But as you know, the whole concept of that came up perhaps a little bit before. But it came out as a reason why the Democrats lost an election, which frankly, they should have been able to win because the electoral college is much more advantageous Democrats, as you know, than it is to Republicans we won the electoral college by a lot three. Oh, six to two twenty three I believe, and that was a well fought that was a well for battle. We did a great job. And frankly, I'm going to let the president speak to the second part of your question. But. Just to say it one time again and say it all the time. There was no collusion. I didn't know the president. There was nobody to collude with. There was no collusion with the campaign. And every time you hear all of these twelve fourteen stuff that has nothing to do. And frankly, they have admit these are not people involved in the campaign, but to the average reader out there, they're saying, well, maybe that does it doesn't and even the people involved some perhaps told mysteries or in one case, the FBI said there was no lie was somebody else said there was. We ran a brilliant campaign. And that's why I'm president. Thank you. How come? As who is to be believed to who's not to be believed. You can trust. No one. If you where did you get this idea that President Trump trust me or I trust him? She shared India's defense, the interest of the United States of America. And I do defend the interests of the Russian federation. We do have interesting that Goeman we are looking for contact. So that clip goes on a bit longer. But as you'll probably note at the beginning of this clip, there is not a denial about Russian election interference just a who can you trust? You can't really trust. Anyone can you who's worth trusting these days everyone's just acting in their own interest. And I have course will act in Russia's interests. And one of the things that would be in Russia's interest is interfering in the US election in parent that of course, now in the rest of this clip would actually Vladimir Putin goes on to say is that the reason Russia would prefer Donald Trump to Hillary Clinton is that Donald Trump was talking about warmer relations with Russia, and that's true. Donald Trump was talking about warmer relations with Russia. However, one of the major things that was going on in Donald Trump's life that might have colored these wants for woman. Relations with Russia is the fact that Donald Trump, Don, jR, and vodka Trump were all involved in the development of this Trump Tower Moscow project, and don't Trump knows that as well when you standing up they're acting like he just wanted warmer relations with Russia because it was just a really good thing for the country or the fact that he's acting like he really cares about nuclear proliferation. You think that he sits up at night in researches who has the most nuclear weapons and rings his hands over what are we going to do about all these nuclear weapons, no way. Especially now from this guy who one of his key plans was he was going to come in and bring nuclear technology to the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia. This is a guy who's actually one to increase nuclear presence in the world just not nuclear weapons, but he would actually have nuclear technology in the hands of more countries. If us allowed to have it. Thank you question for each president, President Trump. I just now President Putin denied having anything to do with the election year in two thousand sixteen every US intelligence agency has concluded that Russia did what who my first question for you, sir. Is who do you believe my second question is would you now with the whole world watching tell President Putin which denounce what happened in two thousand sixteen would you warned him to never do it again? So let me just say that we have to thoughts. You have groups that are wondering why the FBI never took the server. Why haven't they taken the server? Yeah. That's right. The first thing he does is deflect back to Hillary Clinton. Why was the FBI told to leave the office of the Democratic National Committee? I've been wondering that I've been asking that for months and months, and I've been tweeting it out and calling it out on social media, man. If only you're president, right? Where is the server I want to know where is the server, and what is the server saying, I didn't know that server? Could perform that verb. Interesting with that being said, all I can do is ask the question hashtag just asking questions. My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be. But I really do want to see the server what's really bizarre about this framing is that Trump is conceding that there was in fact election interference by somebody. But he can't come up with the reason why it would be Russia. Now, we know that this is all just bullshit. But it's worth teasing out. Why this is bullshit? And actually thinking it out step by step. And that's why wanna revisit this summit with Vladimir Putin a little bit more before we get into this section. But I have I have confidence in both parties. I really believe that this will probably go on for a while. But I don't think it can go on without finding out. What happened to the server what happened to the servers of the Pakistani gentlemen that worked on the DNC where are the servers then missing? Where are they what happened to Hillary Clinton's emails thirty three thousand emails gone? Just gone. I think in Russia they wouldn't begun so easily. I think it's a disgrace that we can't get Hillary Clinton's thirty three thousand emails in the wake of the last episode of don't worry about the government. These comments for me, take completely different light. It is July sixteenth twenty eighteen as don't Trump is saying while standing next to the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin that he still wants the thirty three thousand emails, they're still on his mind. He wants to get into the server. What did the Awan brothers? Do. Surely, they're up to something. I know that in Russia. We would have gotten these emails. He even seems to think that the Russians are better at cyber and therefore could have gotten these emails in some way, shape or form through espionage. Or that if Hillary Clinton was in Russia, she would have been surveilled by her own government, which is oddly distort, pick in the light of the mullahs report. This summit in Helsinki doesn't get more normal. It gets less normal, and it was already highly abnormal. So the next day. They have Donald Trump come out and try to clean this up. And they even go into the transcript of the summit on the official White House transcript and edited to reflect this new double negative narrative. No don't believe you're lying years. Here's what you really heard. And don't Trump came out. And read a statement explaining to all of us what we really heard yesterday, and I have felt very strongly that well Russia's actions had no in at all on the outcome of the election, Wiki leaks. I love Wiki leaks. Let's Bernie got a little bit of a bad deal based on WikiLeaks. Right. They wanna distract us from WikiLeaks. It's been amazing. What's coming out on WikiLeaks? And all you have to do is take a look at WikiLeaks. And just see what they said about Bernie Sanders, even jealousy Clinton. The WikiLeaks Email show expressed serious concerns about conflicts of interest at the Lynn foundation and the State Department. So I got a transcript I reviewed it. I actually went out and we've unit clip of an answer that I gave. And I realized that there is a need for some clarification, it should have been obvious. I thought it would be obvious. But I would like to clarify just in case it wasn't an aqui sentence in my remarks. I sent the word would instead of wooden. The sentence should have been. I don't see any reason why I wouldn't why it wouldn't be rushing. So. Just to repeat it. I said the word would instead of what and the sentence should have been. And I thought I would be maybe a little bit unclear on the transcript or run clear on the actual video sentence should have been. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be Russia sort of a double negative what the mullahs report has shown a so far in volume one is while don't Trump did not participate in a criminal conspiracy with the Russians to aid his campaign. One thing is abundantly clear throughout the campaign that don't Trump is aware of business and many pseudo political or parallel political relationships being formed with the Russian government down from mentality is probably that he is not going to win the presidency. But he is using the campaign. As a way of building out his business and his business relationship with Russia. But I think with that it's about time for us to get into the report come on. We're not marriage part of. We begin today Russian government links to and contacts with the Trump campaign starting on page sixty six the office identified multiple contacts links in the words of the appointment order between Trump campaign officials in individuals with ties to the Russian government. So these would be people a one hop removed from the Russian government or directly attached to the Russian government the office investigated, whether those context constituted a third avenue of attempted Russian interference with or infamous on the twenty sixteen presidential election. There's not a thumbs up or thumbs down right here in this paragraph from Muller on whether or not he feels that. It did. However, the bar memo's said that there are two efforts even though this clearly looks like a third prong. Why is there this Russian outreach operation? This remains. The big lingering question, why is the Russian government? So gung ho about developing out this Trump Tower Moscow project wise, the Russian government trying to get a hold as we discussed with the last episode of Roger stone to get him dirt on Hillary Clinton. But it was kind of like low level her. Why are all these people bubbling up to the surface Muller hasn't laid out a reason on that yet? And that remains a lingering question in particular, the investigation examined whether these context involved or resulted in coordination or a conspiracy with the Trump campaign and Russia, including with respect to Russia, providing assistance to the campaign in exchange for any sort of favorable treatment in the future. Based on the available information the investigation did not establish such coordination. However, I think what you'll see as we're going little bit further through this is that you. You wouldn't see it with the Trump campaign because we kept seeing people leaving the campaign. So these are former members of the campaign, but members of Trump world, and what you will see is a lot of interaction between Trump world in the Russian government. In this episode molars team didn't look at the Trump organization though for ties to Russian businessman at cetera in this section and based on the Rosenstein memo that would have been spun off to other investigations. So I'm not expecting to run into it in this report. But something to keep in our minds that there are two different tracks going out the same time and the Trump Tower Moscow is honestly really nice reflection point where you can see the political prong of this operation in the business prong of this operator. Remember a lot of people that said, the Trump organization probably don't Trump himself. Didn't think that he was going to win the presidency? They thought that this was an excellent exercise to expand. The Trump organization's influence in globe. Full realm and finally start developing projects in places like Russia. Saudi Arabia internationally and get some really good licensing deals. Molars team has been looking for a very specific quid pro quo here again that quid pro quo is between the Trump campaign and the Russian government in respect to providing assistance to the campaign in exchange for any sort of favorable treatment in the future, so providing assistance to the Trump organization for any sort of favorable treatment in the future. Not what we're looking at in this paragraph Trump Tower Moscow in exchange for favorable treatment in the future not mentioned in this paragraph campaign period September twenty fifteen November eighth twenty sixteen. Russian government connected. Individuals in media entities began showing interest in Trump's campaign in the months after he announced his candidacy in June twenty fifteen for example on August. Eighteen twenty fifteen. On behalf of the editor in chief of the internet newspaper. Can't say that name Georgy astray on emailed, the campaign press secretary hope picks asking for a phone or in-person kid interview one day earlier, the publication founder and former Russian parliamentarian Constantine Ryshkov had registered to Russian websites. Trump twenty sixteen dot are you and Donald Trump twenty sixteen are, you know, interview to place, but it's weird. The in Ryshkov took the step of registering websites now, I've registered websites. It doesn't take that much of a step still we're that you would buy those websites up because Trump status as a public figure at the time was attributable in large part to his prior business and entertainment dealings this office investigated whether a business contact with Russia linked individuals and entities during the campaign period, the Trump Tower Moscow project led to or involved core. Nation of election assistance. So again, we see molar being very narrow here. But there's important things that are being done in this paragraph. So in this paragraph mowers justifying why his team looked into the Trump Tower Moscow project on a theory of collusion or conspiracy that I think a lot of us would say that doesn't seem super likely him coming up with this idea that might be there gives him and the FBI team the counterintelligence team that is embedded with him reason to look into this. And if there are things that have nothing to do with, the coordination of election assistance. Let's say illegal financial crimes in dealings that can get spun off to other offices, and we saw the molar team do that throughout this probe. So just because we're looking at a very narrow quid pro quo theory here does not mean that the fruits of this investigation or being looked at for a different style. While of quid pro quo in a different place at a different time. And that might come down the road here. So keep an eye on those SEM watt type investigations, they'll still be bubbling up. There are a lot of investigative babies from the initial probe here. Outreach from individuals with ties to Russia continued in the spring and the summer of twenty sixteen would Trump was moving towards in eventually becoming the Republican nominee for president. So again, this just shows a temporal component of this. How long and how deep into the campaign. This went without really being seen as a problem by the people in the Trump organization. I think they only star to reassess how they were doing this. When it became somewhat apparent that. There is a chance they might actually win this election. It was an outside chance. But once you secure a major party's nomination, we have a two party system. It's nearly fifty fifty obviously there are some things that advantage one. Kid and disadvantage another kid it, and you can self inflict many disadvantages onto yourself, but you're still in a two person race. So don't Trump had a chance of winning the White House, and that probably led to an organizational reassessment of how they were doing business. Also at this point we start hearing a lot more about don't from tax returns, which is a way of talking about his business dealings, which is something that don't Trump probably should have been concerned about between at least twenty thirteen and twenty sixteen. The Trump organization explored a similar licensing deal in Russia involving the construction of Trump branded property in Moscow the project commonly referred to as the Trump Tower Moscow or the Trump Moscow project intimidated, a combination of commercial, hotel and residential properties. All within the same building all of many of the Trump Tower buildings between twenty thirteen in June. Twenty sixteen several employees at the Trump organization, including the then president of the organization Donald J Trump pursued a Moscow deal with several Russian counterparties. So there had been this relationship that had been formed between the Trump organization, including Donald Trump and the Russian government during this Trump Tower Moscow project from the fall of twenty fifteen until the middle of twenty sixteen Michael Cohen spearhead of the Trump organizations pursuit of Trump Tower Moscow project that Donald Trump definitely knew about including by reporting on the project status to candidate Trump and other executives in the Trump organization. So in this first paragraph right here heading one Trump Tower Moscow project, what we have is Michael Cohen this all looks like stuff source for Michael Cohen here. Michael Cohen explaining that. Don't Trump knew about a Trump Tower Moscow that this was not being dumb. Hind his back that he knew he had business dealings in Russia when he was saying he had no business dealings in Russia because he'd had these business dealings in Russia for at least three years leading up to this in December twenty thirteen done junior and cover Lada. I think I probably ruined that name negotiated inside. Preliminary terms for an agreement for the Trump Tower Moscow project, so that's in December twenty thirteen we've already inked some sort of deal on this. We want to get this deal done at some point on December twenty third twenty thirteen after discussions with Donald J Trump the Trump organization agreed to accept an arrangement whereby the organization received a flat three point five percent commission on all sales with no licensing fees were incentives the parties negotiated a letter of intent during January and February of twenty fourteen from January twenty fourteen through November twenty fourteen the Trump organization and the crocus group. Discussed development plans for the Moscow project from January twenty fourteen through November twenty fourteen the Trump organization in the crocus group discussed development plans for the Moscow project sometime before January twenty fourth twenty fourteen the crocus group sent the Trump organization a proposal for an eight hundred unit one hundred ninety four meter building to be constructed on aga- layer of own site in Moscow called crocus city, which have been the site of the Miss Universe pageant. You might remember that don't Trump was involved in the Miss Universe pageant and also that don't Trump appears in Ayman aga- lira of music video. This is the fail. Son of heiress aga- Lehrer off who is the person he's discussing building this building. With in February twenty fourteen Ivanka Trump met with Ayman agley off in toward the crocus city site while on a visit to Moscow. From March twenty fourteen through July twenty fourteen the groups discuss design standards and other architectural elements, for example, in July twenty fourteen members of the Trump organization sent crocus group counterparty questions about quote demographics of these perspective buyers in the crocus city area, the development of neighboring parcels in crocus city and the concepts for redesigning portions of the building like they had plans for this building in August, twenty fourteen the Trump organization requested specifications for a competing Maria branded tower being built in crocus city. They wanted to know the competition there because they didn't want to be outdone by the Marriott's beginning in September twenty fourteen the Trump organization stopped responding in a timely fashion to correspondence and proposals from the crocus group. Something went wrong here communications between the two groups continued through November twenty fourteen with decreasing frequency. What appears to be the less communication is dated November twenty fourth twenty fourteen the project appears to have not developed past the planning stages and no construction occurred now, oh that's from page sixty eight big question coming out of the sections. Oh, man, we're home and a long. We're humming along we got crooked city vodka's going out this she's taking questions we're trying to figure out is the stem or the upscale enough or they going to be able to meet our Bucci needs. And then all of a sudden something fizzles out. Now. Here's the interesting question. What prompts the Russians to reignite this deal in twenty fifteen through Felix Sater, and what caused the Trump organization to get cold on this deal. Twenty fourteen. Certainly I will say we haven't gotten a chance to really do a cross reference against the Steele dossier, and I'm not going to get to do that for a minute here. So like that's just not enough coming up anytime soon here, but it will happen at some point. We've got a lot of time before let's say the primaries really gets. Into humming. Right. But one thing that we can see a clear departure between the molar report, and the Steele dossier is this idea that Trump was a man Sherie and candidate sil- guy that he was basically a yes man for Russia. He was trying to do business in Russia who's really interested in doing business with the Russians meeting Vladimir Putin as we will see these tweeted about meeting Putin. He thinks he's a cool guy. We've established that he's a deep moral relativist when it comes to comparing American actions in the world to Russian actions in the world, if anything he kind of sees the Russians as a little bit of a victim here both sides, did it we're all the blame. Remember what you heard in the press conference there when he was talking with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki. You hear a lot of qualification a lot of explanation. But one thing that is clear is that although he is a massive massive massive apologised for Russia, although using complete denial about Russian election. Interference still to this day. Although he was encouraging the Russians to get the emails what he isn't is a Mansuri and candidate. So I would say right here that that is mildly reassuring except that don't Trump's disposition is so friendly to Russia at this point that there really isn't that much of a difference? Behaviorally speaking in how don't Trump would act if he was totally co opted by the Russians and his need to hide downplay diminished and NY Russian election interference in any way, shape or form essentially makes him a little bit of a slave to that narrative in the late summer of twenty fifteen the Trump organization receive a new inquiry about pursuing a Trump Tower project in Moscow in approximately September twenty fifteen Felix Seder, a New York-based real estate adviser contacted Michael Cohen then. Executive vice president of the Trump organization and special counsel to Donald J Trump without doing a full biography on Felix sater's Felix sater's had been a member of the Trump organization and had advised on a number of domestic and international projects in the past Seder had explored the possibility of Trump Tower project in Moscow, while working in the Trump organization and therefore new of the organization's general interest in completing a deal there. So one thing that Seder was aware of that. Apparently was still true is that although the deal fizzled out for whatever reason at the tail end of twenty fourteen the interest did not fizzle out. Someone just grew cold on the terms of the agreement Seder it also served as an informal agent of the Trump organization in Moscow previously and had accompanied Ivanka Trump in don't Trump junior to Moscow in the mid two thousands. So Seder has been in import. Part of building the Trump organization's relationship with Russia. Russia the state Russian businessmen who are all guards who are tied into the Russian government doing business in Russia for the last twenty years part of this two decades long plan of fuss during better relations between the Trump organization and Russia, and perhaps one can look at some of his quotes about Russia. All the wouldn't it be nice. If we had better relations with Russia, and it makes a little bit more sense. When you port in the Trump organization when you saying we he's not talking about America. Well, that's easy enough. Right. Don't doesn't really care about America. He's talking about his business of the need. Definitely cares about Seder contacted Cohen on behalf of see expert. Investments company LC expert, a Russian real estate Development Corporation controlled by Andrei Vladimirovich, raise off Seder known since approximately two. Thousand seven and twenty fourteen had served as an agent on behalf of Rozov during roof's purchase. Im- building in New York City Seder later contacted Rozov and propose that I see expert pursue a Trump Tower Moscow project in which I see expert would license the name amd brand the Trump organization but construct the building on its own. So they take the Trump name and run their own business underneath the Trump. Name Seder worked on the deal with Rosa and other employees of icy expert Cohen was the only Trump organization Representative to negotiate directly with ICS experts or its agents in approximately September of two thousand fifteen so at this point the campaign has begun. But Trump is not the front runner at this point cone obtained approval to negotiate with ICS expert from Ted at Trump who was then the president of the Trump organization because remember don't Trump hung onto his business ties to the Trump organization. For a very long time. You remember the doubt Trump did not want to divest himself from his ties to the Trump organization that was done really under extreme duress and his whole claims that he had no conflict of interest. But clearly if he had not divest himself for the Trump organization. This would have been a conflict of interest, right? Don't Trump in the whole family knew about this Trump Tower Moscow project, and it's still not completed. So I would imagine that unless they said something explicitly that they were no longer interested in doing a Trump Tower in Moscow that there remains interest in the Trump organization in one day doing a Trump Tower Moscow that alone would be incentive for doing things that the Russians liked and being adverse to doing things that would rub the Russian government the wrong way. Because at some point you're going to need the Russian government's approval in ord- build Trump Tower Moscow. Cohen provided updates directly to Trump about the project through twenty fifteen and into twenty sixteen assuring him that the project was continuing Cohen also discussed the Trump Moscow project with vodka Trump as designer home. It's such as possible architects to use for the project and Don jR, about his experience in Moscow and his possible involvement in the project. So Don, jR, apparently considered inside the organization someone who's knowledgeable about Russia. So not necessarily a lot of brains float around that organization, but you can see that don't Trump has been trying to hand off the rains, especially on the Russian side of the business to Eric and Don, jR, and groom them the problem, of course, being that Don, jR, is not particularly groom -able or maybe that he's just performing peak between approximately October thirteenth twenty fifteen in November second twenty fifteen the Trump organization through its subsidiary, Trump acquisition. LLC and icy expert completed a letter of intent for a Trump Moscow property the letter of intent signed by Trump for the Trump organization in Rozov on behalf of icy expert was quote intended to facilitate further discussions in order to quote attempt to enter into a mutually acceptable agreement related to the Trump branded project in Moscow on November third twenty fifteen the day after the Trump organization transmitted the letter of intent Seder emailed Cohen suggesting that the Trump Moscow project could be used to increase Kate at Trump's chances at being elected writing buddy Albouy can become president of the USA and weak and engineer I will get all Putin's team to buy in on this. I will manage this process. Markle Putin gets on stage with Donald for a ribbon cutting for Trump Moscow and Donald owns the Republican nomination and possibly be Tillery. And our boy is in we will manage this process better than anyone you, and I will get Donald in Vladimir on stage together very shortly in a way, he ended up being right? This is November third twenty fifteen and the clip that we played earlier in the episode was from July twenty eighteen so in under three years. This did come to pass. But the more born part rather than being oddly for boating is that we do see a few things here. One possibly beats Hillary suggests that even in Seder's mind, the odds of beating Hillary is lower than fifty percent even in a two person race here and what they do want to do beyond beating. Hillary Clinton is foster this relationship between the Trump organization and the Russian government. So that they can do business in Russia because in order do business when involves proper. In real estate. You have to do business with the Russian government the idea of doing business in Russia and it being coupled from the government of Russia. It's really silly. It's like going into Newark city and saying I'm going to buy real estate, but I'm never going to deal with the city of New York. Of course, you're going to have to deal with New York City. Of course, you're going to have to deal with zoning coach real estate, developers know this. They know there's a political component to any new building that gets built albeit a minor. Political components cases, however, say there is making it very clear that the end goal of this is both political in business related getting Donald in Vladimir on stage together makes Donald more influential global businessman, it makes him a more influential business player in Russia. You might even say a little bit of an international Russian oligarch at that point. And now you've established him a little bit in the political side because engagement Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia's going to be inhere. Gently political more from Seder? I think I can get Putin to say that at the Moscow press conference, if he says, it we own this election, America's most difficult adversary agreeing that Donald is a good God in a Goshi eight we can own this election. Michael, my next steps are very sensitive with Putin's very very close people. We can pull this off Markle. Let's go to Bush from Brooklyn getting a USA, president elected. This is really good. It was not really good. But it's very interesting that Seder keeps flushing his hand of Russian government context. Russian government context and Cohen is aware of those Russian government contacts Cohen recalled the conversation with Donald Trump in which the candidate suggested that his campaign would be a significant infomerrcial for Trump rented properties. So again, Trump is mixing peanut butter and is chocolate here. A little. Yeah. I'm running a political campaign, but I'm running political campaign. So that more people know, why am so that we have this big infomercial for doing business with don't Trump and maybe convincing in duping some of these despots around the world that the best way to get better relationships with America is to do business with Donald Trump, the non president of the United States in this time line post letter of intent contacts with individuals in Russia, given the size of the Trump Moscow project Felix Stater and Michael Cohen both believed that the project required approval whether express or implicit from the Russian national government, again, your source here is very clearly Michael Cohen, including from the presidential administration of Russia. Seder stated that he therefore began to contact the presidential administration through another Russian business contact. So here this point of collusion. Is Felix Seder someone who is part of Trump world, but it's kind of floating in between Trump world in Russia. World has a Russian business contact that Russian business contact is reaching back to Russia. So again, there is a conspiracy here there is not a criminal conspiracy here that more can demonstrate in a quart of law because you have these cutouts because you have these intermediaries on October twelve twenty fifteen for example, cedar wrote to Cohen that quote, all we need is Putin on board, and we are golden and that quote, a meeting with Putin and a top deputy is tentatively set for the fourteenth of October. The Trump boys wanted to meet with Putin and believed that that meeting between Putin and Trump that public meeting would be viewed as very cool by the American public that the American public would see this during the election and think man, well doubt Trump's he's tame the wild. Beast of Russia, vitamin Putin. He's got him right under his thumb. That's actually what they're thinking about the optics of maybe Trump's playing Putin here. Yeah. I know it seems strange, but that's what I'm reading here. Now here there is a grand jury redaction that I believe is essentially XXX said, whoever it is said to the grand jury that this meeting was being coordinated by associates in Russia, and that he whoever he is I'm assuming that he refers back to Seder had no direct interaction with the Russian government. So again, Russians using cutouts. But here's the thing about using cuts. You have to also consider the usage of cutouts requires more coordination on the side. That is using the cutouts rights of the Russian government is coordinating this network of cutouts to interact with Trump wolf, again, why that becomes the big question. Because that can't be accidental. You don't accidentally set up a network of cutouts because doing that would essentially result in massive leaks all over the place, and this was able to stay pretty close to impact it in the telephone call and fall on emails with cloak off. Michael Cohen discussed his desire to use a near term trip to Russia to site surveys and talk over the Trump Moscow project with local developers Cohen registered his willingness to also meet with cloak off in the unidentified intermediary. But was emphatic that all meetings in Russia involving him or don't Trump, including possible meeting between Trump importing would need to be quote in conjunction with the development and in official visit with the Trump organization receiving a formal invitation division it cloak off had written previously that the visit by candidate Trump has to be informal. And so what they didn't want to do is have the appearance of don't Trump taking? A secret trip over to Russia because they're months that would play like Donald Trump was Kooning with the Russians. Now, again, this is a bit of a warped logic. Because don't Trump is colluding with the Russians they just don't want it to look to shady. But what is happening here is that they are trying to create a false pretense to have the exact same meeting about the exact same subject matter. Although with a really good implausible cover story so little bit of a conspiracy here to fudge. Why don't Trump would need to go over to Russia? They're never able to quite get this off the ground. But again it speaks to their mentality. Were they thinking about where their heads that? What's motivating him at this point? There's nothing virtuous here. I I don't think that anyone here at least not in what I've read believes that we're actually going to get a nuclear de proliferation tree out of building the Trump Tower Moscow. I think that don't Trump as Michael Cohen said. Is great infomercial. And if he plays this campaign, right? He's going to be making buco Dollah race on the way out cloak off. Had also previously recommended to Cohen that he's separate their negotiations over a possible meeting between Trump and quote the person of interest. Let me Putin from any existing business track. Re-emphasizing that his outreach was not done on behalf of any business. Cloak of added in a second Email to Cohen that if publicized well such a meeting could have quotes phenomenal impact in a quote business dimension, and that the person of interests most important support could have significant ramification for the quotes level of projects in their capacity as in if you charge him Putin. That's how you get to build the really big buildings. Remember the plan for the final interational of Trump Tower Moscow is that this is going to be the biggest building in continental Europe. He told Cohen that. There was quote, no bigger warranty in any project than the consent of the person of interest. I wonder who that would be in Russia Cohen rejected. The proposal saying that quote, currently our letter of intent developer is intellect with the vice president's chief of staff vice president of Russia and arranging a formal invite for the to meet this Email appears to be their final exchange and the investigation did not identify evidence that Cohen brought cloak initial offer of assistance to the campaigns attention or the anyone associated with the Trump organization or the campaign dealt with cloak off at a later date. So it's interesting here. I do think Michael Cohen is covering a little bit for don't Trump. Why wouldn't Michael Cohen had a conversation with don't Trump about this weird exchange that occured it seems really impossible. All this is from page. His seventy three through seventy four. I get one more in his team. However, say that they think Michael Cohen was very helpful to their investigation. It's very clear that he was cloak hav on the Russian side wanted to have both a business discussion in one hand and a political discussion in another hand. And it's interesting to me that he found it to be beneficial to separate these two things. So that don't Trump wouldn't have any cover if that political discussion ever came to light if they had the business discussion if they're mixing the peanut butter and the chocolate you've got a cover story if you separate the chocolate from the peanut butter and there's only peanut butter. There is no covering on that peanut butter. Now Cohen decides that he's going to Email the Russian government press secretary Dmitry peskov, but Michael Cohen is Michael Cohen. So the first time he felt fingers the Email address on the second time on January fourteenth of two thousand sixteen. He finally does. Does Email the right Email address info at PR, press dot gov dot are you with this do Mr. peskov over the past few months? I have been working with a company based in Russia regarding the development of Trump Tower Moscow project in Moscow city without getting into lengthy specifics the communication between two sides Stolt as this project is too important. I am here by requesting assistance. I respectfully request somebody preferably you contact me. So that I might discuss specifics as well as arranging meetings with the appropriate individuals. I think in advance fewer cysts and look forward to hearing from you soon. Two days later. Cohen emailed the correct address for peskov with a repeat of the exact same request. Again. The most important part is not how good my Michael Cohen accent is I know, I know it's great the important part. Here is as project is too important, the organization views the Trump Tower Moscow project as not just. Important not just to thing that they would like to do as true important to fail. This must be built literally too big to fail. Cohen testified to congress initially told the office that he did not recall receiving a response to this Email inquiry, and that he decided to terminate any further work on the Trump Moscow project as of January twenty sixteen Cohen later admitted that those statements were false that's page. Seventy four report does not say why he lied about this. The report does not say right here who told him to lie about this Cohen had received and recalled receiving response to his inquiry, and he continued to work on and update down Trump on the project through as late as June twenty sixteen page seventy five so indulge Trump is saying I have no business dealings in Russia, but we deserve answers. And we should. Manned that Donald release all of his tax returns. So that people can see what are the entanglements and the financial relations. You have to that letter has secretary Clinton's time powers Trump because I don't know Putin. I think it would be great if we get along with Russia because we could fight ISIS together as an example. But I don't know. But I notice anytime anything wrong happens. They like to say the Russians are she doesn't over. It's the Russians doing the hacking. Maybe there is no hacking. But there was blame Russia, and the reason they blame Russia because they think they're trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know nothing about Russia. I know I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don't deal. I have no businesses that have no loans from Russia. When us telling the world, he's telling America's telling all the voters in this country. I'm not tied into Russia. Not doing business in Russia. It stands in stark contrast to what people did Trump organization are doing which is developing out a project in. Moscow under the believe that this will foster better relations with Russia on a political side and on a business side, and that they will be able to show the successful fruits of this project this project that is quote, two important too big to fill that they will be able to show this to all of us during twenty sixteen and we will think it is very legal in very cool and be very impressed and go. Wow, tell Trump is done a really good thing here, except that they don't really believe that right? Because Donald Trump is standing onstage saying I have no business dealings in Russia while still encouraging Michael Cohen to go and work on the Trump Tower Moscow project as he told congress a month ago. So yes, as we're on page seventy five right now, I want to stop and say very clearly there was collusion. There is a plan to collude. It did not come to pass and that is very much true. And it's not criminal, and that's very much true. But there was literal Kalou. Asian with the Russians and the Russian government in an attempt to help this campaign. I think that this part of the report makes that fact abundantly clear on January twentieth. Twenty sixteen Cohen received an Email from Elena polio. Cova peskov personal assistant writing from her personal Email account, pull your Cova stated that she had been trying to reach Cohen. And as that he called her on the personal number that she provided shortly after receiving politicos Email Cohen called in spoke to her for about twenty minutes. And of course, the problem with phone calls is this is where paper trails go cold sometimes or where you need warrants, and that sort of thing in order to retrieve phone records Coen described a polio. Cova his position at the Trump organization and outlined the proposed Trump Moscow project, including information about the Russian counterparty with which the Trump organization had partnered cone requ. Assistance in moving the project forward both in securing land to build the project and with financing according to Cohen polio. Cova asked detailed questions, it took notes stating that she would need to follow up with others in Russia. Coen could not recall any drug follow up from polio. Cova or from any other representatives of the Russian government, nor did the office identify any evidence of a direct follow up. This is an oddly passive way for these special counsel's office to phrase this conclusion, and it leads me to believe that perhaps not convinced that there was nothing there. It makes sense again, according to Cohen this project was too important to just let fill out. So you have to imagine the Cohen now on his second attempt to keep this project alive is going to endeavor to do that the day after Coen's Polyakova Seder texted Cohen asking him, quote, call me when you have a few minutes to chat, it's about Putin. They called today. Seder then set a draft invitation for Cohen visit Moscow to discuss the Trump Moscow project along with the note to quote, tell me if the letter is good as amended by me, or to make whatever changes you want and send it back to me after a further round of edits on that fig-leaf letter that reason to justify Donald Trump as the head of the Trump organization and not a presidential candidate to go over and speak with leading Putin on January twenty fifth twenty sixteen Seder cinch. Cohen an invitation signed by Andrei riot been ski of the company image Jada travel quotes to Moscow for a working. Visit about quotes the prospects of development and the construction of business in Russia. The various land plots available suited for the construction of enormous tower and the opportunity to coordinate a visit to Moscow by Mr. Donald Trump Cohen elected not to travel at that time. Because of concerns about the lack of concrete proposals about land plots that could be considered as options for the project beginning in late twenty fifteen Seder repeatedly tried to arrange for Cohen and don't Trump as representatives of the Trump organization, not as candidates to travel to Russia to meet with Russian government officials impossible financing partners. Although again, chocolate peanut butter. I'm going to keep going back to this analogy. They did want this business deal to a political component. And they wanted to make sure that this business deal caught the eye of Russian government officials as many as possible in December of two thousand fifteen Seder Sint Cohen, a number of emails about logistics, traveling to Russia for meetings on December nineteenth twenty fifteen Seder roads. Please call me I have Guinea divorced on the other line. He needs a copy of your, Donald passports. They need a skin of every page of the passports invitation. Station in visas will be issued this week by VTC Bank to discuss financing for Trump Tower Moscow, politically nother, Putin's office, nor ministry foreign affairs can issue this invite so they are inviting commercially for business purposes, V TB Bank is the second. Biggest Bank in Russia and their CEO under constant will be all meetings with Putin. So that it is a business meeting and not political again, they wanna mix that chocolate and peanut butter. They want vitamer Putin at the meeting to say that the meeting is strictly for business when you have the head of the Russian state is but a fig-leaf, but they wanted to have that fig-leaf in place. So that have possible deniability on their collusion plan in response to that letter Muko and texted Sater, an image of his own passport. Cohen told the office that at one point he requested a copy of Donald Trump's passport from Rhona Graff. That's Donald Trump's personal assistant at the Trump organization and graph later. Brought that pass to Michael Cohen. The investigation did not however establish that the passport was forwarded to Seder that's on page seventy seven again that doesn't mean that it wasn't for disabled or what's up with all of this passive voicing. And also what is up with Felix Seder if he is in cooperating with the government. I don't understand how this guy is in dealing with a world of the problems right now, I'm waiting for that shoe to drop still the conversation continued and may fourth twenty sixteen Seder photo up. I had a chat with Moscow assuming the trip does happen. The question is before or after the convention. I said I believe, but don't know for sure that it's probably after the convention like the Russian government wants Donald Trump to be the Republican presidential nominee when they have this meeting. So that well Trump in the Trump organization. Will have this belief that they have caused deniability that these meetings with Ladimir Putin and the head of ET Bank or just strictly for business, and the fact that the Republican presidential kid and the president of Russia both in this meeting house is happening. It's really really wild Felix sater's continues. Obviously the pre meeting trip you only can happen. Eight time you want, but the two big guys is where the question is. I said that I would confirm let me know about if I was right by saying, I believe after Cleveland and also when do you wanna speak to them impossibly fly over Michael Cohen responded, mud trip before Cleveland? Mr. Trump wants he becomes the nominee after the convention. Michael Cohen responded much trip before Cleveland Trump wants he becomes the nominee after the convention. So they thought following Donald Trump becoming the? Republican presidential nominee that essentially his big foreign policy gravitas building. Exercise was going to be to go over to Russia announce with Lederman. Putin on the stage that they were going to build the biggest building in Europe. And here we have the Republican presidential nominee and the president of Russia. It's a business relationship. But there's also a clear political optical components. A clear message to the world being stated here emperor apps the world a little bit of an ominous message, although maybe in Vladimir Putin's is this would be him becoming a major economic player. A thing that he is wanted for a very long time and would also legitimize Russia in their weird claims to great world power status. The day after this exchange Felix sater's tied. Michael Coen's traveled to Russia to the Saint Petersburg international economic forum. This is an annual event attended by prominent Russian politicians and businessmen. The oligarchs Seder told the special counsel's office that he was informed by a business associate that peskov wanted to invite come into the forum, and this form is conflict of in Russia as a dove oast like forum and actually say it or says that as much peskov would like to invite you as his guest to the peers form, which is like Russia's DAV owes. It's June sixteenth through June nineteenth. He wants to meet you there. Impossibly introduced you to either Putin or mid Viet af- as they're not sure if one or both will be there. This is perfect the entire business class of Russia will be there as well. He said anything you wanted to Scott's including dates and subjects are on the table to discuss. So this is going to be an open discussion chocolate peanut butter. We can talk about the mall Muko response. We're on page seventy seven now works for me on Juneid, the twenty sixteen Seder's Cohen, a notice that he feels Seder was completing the badges for the form and added Putin is there on the seventeenth very strong chance. You will meet him as well on June thirteenth twenty sixteen. Seder forwarded Cohen an invitation to the forum signed by the director of the rose congress foundation. The Russian entity organizing the forum Seder also sent Cohen a Russian visa application and asked him to send two passport photos. According to Cohen, the invitation gave no indication that peskov have been involved inviting him, and why would it Cohn was concerned that the Russian officials were not actually involved or we're not interested in meeting with him as Seder head allege. So he decided not to go to forum Cohen decides not to go not because he doesn't think they're going to be enough business influencers there. But because he does not believe that there are going to be enough political influencers there, and again, this speaks to the mentality of the Trump organization where I forget where I put chocolate and we're put peanut butter at this point. But the real point of this project for both sides and both sides. No, it is a political point that Michael Cohen wants us to have a clear deep political prong to this. And he wants to have Trump be viewed as a global political player coming out of this. So the Russian higher ups know about this Trump Tower Moscow deal, and they know that it's in play at the exact same time as they're encouraging the pro-trump troll farms, and they're hacking, the DNC, and they're also doing various forms of in-person outreach to people around Trump world their meetings going on in Russia about this operation. I don't know how much. Our government knows about those operations in knows about those meetings and knows about this plan. But there's the clear contours of a multifaceted plan that seems to be about at least to my eyes. And I'm speaking purely from what I can see putting increased levels of chaos and uncertainty, and distrust that Letterman Putin line of who can you trust? It's about not trusting the government. The Trump organization does in fact have more interactions with the Russian government directly. I'm talking about Rhona Graff here. Rhona Graff receives an Email from deputy prime minister productive on more seventeenth twenty sixteen. That's the deputy prime minister of Russia, inviting don't Trump to participate in this twenty sixteen form in Saint Petersburg, Trump continues to climb because of campaign demands. But that doesn't really wash something's going on here. And I'm not sure. That more humid figured it out. I sure have him based on what I'm reading here at approximately the same time that that letter was being prepared rubber Foresman a Newark base investment banker began reaching out to wrote a graph to secure an impersonal meeting with Donald Trump, according to Foresman he had been asked by Anton Koba, cough, a Russian presidential aide involved with the rose congress foundation. Remember that name to see Trump could speak at the forum. So now, the Russian government is using cutout to get to an American cut out to set up this combo between Foresman and don't Trump, and they wanted to make sure that conversation was happening between Donald Trump and forced directly and wanted to do it in person to discuss quote concrete things that Foresman said he didn't feel comfortable discussing over quote, unsecure, Email unsecure Email is the type of thing that a guilty. Ersan worries about and that leads me to believe that Foresman is not being forthright. When he says that this was just another way of getting the Trump organizations attention when the Russian government had already basically used a different channel to get the Trump organizations attention about this meeting with couple of cough in this invitation by the Ross congress. So the question is what did the Russians setup this complicated network of cutouts to try to sit up this in-person meeting? The meeting didn't go down at least, according to what the special counsel's office was able to turn up, and we're ending this episode today on page seventy nine we're gonna pick up the next episode on page eighty that is going to draw this episode on the Trump Tower Moscow to a close, but what we learned here today in our extended conversation about chocolate and peanut butter that has left me with a very very serious recess. Peanut butter. Jones what we learned here today is about the Russian government and the Trump organization and candidate Trump, they have two different positions. So they wanted to do this Trump Tower Moscow projects which is going to be is final stages. These second or the largest building in Europe. And this building was viewed by the Russian government as having a business component to assure. But more importantly, having a clear political or poly economic component to it. The idea of stab wishing Russia as a major economic player in the world establishing Russia as a great world power, the optics of Ladimir Putin standing onstage with America's Republican presidential nominee. Donald J Trump is very very good optics shaking hands with the Republican. So even if he gets Hillary Clinton he can kind of say, yes. But I've been giving her middle finger all along here. There's a clear benefit. On the political side for the Russians, which is really was bringing them to the table. And certainly why they would be interested and having their head of state sit down with Donald Trump at bare minimum now in more nefarious reads of all this you could say that part of bringing that Amir Putin to the table is to put Trump in a bit of a compromising position where they can say enter the Russian government. Yeah. Sure. This is a business deal. But this is really all about politics, and we have an arrangement going on here. I told Trump that he could build his building shore. It's a great building. It's a monument to diplomacy. Why not let's let's say that. Sure. What? But I also did that because I want something in return, and it should be pretty obvious to all of you. And here's the thing. Don't Trump has established himself as such a liar to the American people that Putin came out and said that wouldn't you believe him or let me put it another way. Don't you think that pretty much every single democratic voter would believe him? It would. Need any more sufficient evidence than vitamin Putin saying it, and don't you think that a lot of Republicans a ton on a million, but most independence and even a few Republicans would be like, yeah. That's probably true. Yeah. They'll take Vladimir Putin on face value over Donald Trump. So if we're talking about compromise, or if we're talking about this as a compromising operation this does also have the secondary objective of compromising Donald Trump. This becomes the thing that don't Trump can't talk about. In fact, it becomes the thing that don't Trump has it enough. I so what has happened during the development of this deal is yes, Russia's getting closer to building this building. But they've also got the kid on the stage saying completely false things. Like, I have no business dealings in Russia that they know n can demonstrate are completely false. So what we see here as exit this Trump Tower Moscow section is the Russians had a pretty clever way. Of getting dirt adult Trump that didn't involve a p tape at all involved, a giant massive building. That's going to do it for this episode of don't worry about the government a little bit of a long one on this one. But on the next one we're going to talk about George popadopoulos. So come back and check with me and a couple of days for that in the interim. I hope you like this show, please let me know if you did at sea age or I s and V E M B R. I know Chris November. No is my name o- on Twitter. You can follow the show at DWA T G R homepage is don't worry dot TV. And I should probably say this more often don't worry about the government is a listener supported podcast. It takes time. It takes energy to go through mine. All these clips go through the mall report reform added clean it up at an analysis. I'm trying to bring you the biggest fullest portrait of what is inside this big document. That has a lot of redaction is written and legally. These I hope that you're getting something out of it. I really do. And I've been getting really great feedback and we've been getting patriots because of this series. So clearly some of y'all are really like in this series. And that's awesome. Thank you so much. But if you do like this series, your dollar is your vote. I mean, there are other ways for you to register feedback with me in a freeway, but by going to patriot dot com slash GWA t g you tell me that you want me to stop doing other things and get back to work on don't worry about the government and put out more episodes, and the more people who are on that page, if I could do this fulltime, I would do this full time. If I didn't have to do other things in addition to this. I would love to do that. Because this shows a lot of work in addition to my work. Life already helped me help you. I love gain. These shows out you help me get more of them out the other way, you can do that is by going to pay pal dot me slash pay. DWA t g you can send me any amount. You want? A bucket shows all masking, although obviously if you're going to get onto pay pal just sending me a dollar every time going to be rather tedious. So, you know, why not send me fifty or one hundred dollars and be done with it for a minute here. And then every so often go, you know, he's still put out this podcast. I'm still listed to him. Hey, here's some money. Just keeping up with that. Some people are doing that. And that's great. I just wanna say it hasn't been a ton of premium content at this point because there's so much free content right now. But if you want premium content, and you're a pay pal person. Just let me know hit me up on Twitter, and that sort of thing I just wanna make sure that I'm getting all the stuff out, y'all. Also, also tail end show thing, but I'd love some feedback on this. There are a lot of town halls. I don't know if you noticed this, but somewhere around fifty people running for president, and it would be very helpful at least in terms of getting additional content out to people if I could maybe bring in some of my friends to be guest reviewers for town halls. So you would be getting someone assigned to a specific townhall. They would be laying their cards on the table where they're coming from with this particular candidate upfront, and then taking your point by point through that canon. If that's something you're interested in let me know that's something that enough people are interested in I will start saying that up just if not that will be an idea that dies in the either. Oh, who we for the dead ideas? Not me because I don't remember most of them. But name is Christopher Bruno. I want to thank you guys so much for listening and until the next one bye bye. Bye. Phone. The reason I do such great journalism is I don't I don't I'm not afraid of these people because I don't even know who they are to me. They're just like, I don't know how even how to say their names.