What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward opts out?

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Hey there folks welcome in to another edition of the winning Place podcast. My name is Brian Rob and we have breaking news out of the gate bridge Levine is back after paternity leave after the last few weeks. My phone is still off today. He's got a big thing come up tomorrow. We'll talk about that next week, but for now rigid paid was it paid paternity leave that we did that we discussed that. Yeah, we're going through the benefits package. So I think it's America rich, Richmond is back ryburn Tony here has always during this offseason and Rich. What a what a time to come back into the fold on the back of a free agency with Gordon Hayward turning down thirty-four million dollars on a player option just hours ago will just go around horn here to start Ryan. I've talked about this month. But Rich will be good to get just your fresh fresh perspective here to to begin. My first my first perspective is what anti-climactic deadline that was, huh? I'll be waiting waiting all week for Tuesday then waiting all week for Thursday. The deadline comes and still everything is pretty much in play. Yeah, am I right in saying this like so we know we know that he's not go back for one year at 34 or whatever it is. I don't think so. But everything else is still in place not like he's gone. It's not like he's still can't come back. It's not like there are the trees aren't still potentially inimical. Like my first reaction was just anti-climactic. I wanted a little bit more from today's deadline. It would be hilarious if he re-signs for one year 34.2 million three or four page one. Yes. It's like make them pay for that extra time. But to be I was I was thinking about I was texting people earlier in the Latimer like in the last couple of hours just saying about like the potential end game here and like I do wonder if something like that is on the table for him, like maybe if a player talk option attached to that in the case where it's like that's a clear all turn off. Have to obviously him walking away from nothing through Celtics. But if he isn't willing to commit here long-term and doesn't want to be traded to a place that he doesn't want to go to then it's like that could be a conceivable like Middle Ground. I don't even know I mean that sounds loud even speculate about but like we're it's I have trouble seeing what the endgame is here be honest. I'm a trade right now. So I I mean my number just from like we have more clarification on a number of different things that happen. We're still waiting to see what exactly is going on with this Memphis trade for the 30th pick. I don't think there's been a formal and woke up exactly what that is and I've been sort of speculating that maybe that includes Canter but I don't have any way of knowing that for sure. They've been in Safari as now on what they out to New Jersey City and we know that they did move the 30th pixel like we have a little bit better numbers. Now what I've come up with is like if they could offer him three years sixty nine million dollars right around there, which is a good number because there's different ways you could like structure with some other movies. I think they could get like right under the tax with that if it was can't hear was out. They obviously have to sign other players to fill out the roster and you have to bring a center in and spend a little bit of money there. But like you can make it work or if you start about 25 million, then you can come in like right under the tax and then have it descend. So you're not spending quite as much in the next couple years. I'm going to be back over the tax if Canter's in wage. Make it a sin and you sort of flip the money around but that number right there like Dodges the tax this year would give him the thirty-four million that he opted out of and then basically a two year 35 million a year 35 mental extension on top of that which seems like you know, sort of fair market Price maybe a little bit below what people think but you get that 34 million back in as well and like that would seem to be like if there's any chance of him coming back and that's not a new number right? We've been kicking around numbers right back for the the idea of the opt-out re-sign from the beginning. And so if you think there's any chance of him coming back, I think that number is still sort of the most likely but it's no longer a point of like is it like that would be sixty million could they go to eighty million? So it's sort of like, okay. We're it's right around that 70 number where they could get the value of staying under the tax and and really the value of that is avoiding the repeater at some point the finger right here spending. Yeah, so and then how much more Ryan so we know we know like the Charlotte can go as high as like nineteen right how much more none of us think that the Knicks or the Hawks are going to max out Gordon Hayward. It's not have asked them know so so what's realistically how much more do you think that he can get and one of these two other places? I don't know if there's that much more out there in a three-year deal. It's possible if somebody will go up for three years or three years in a fourth-year player option, whatever might be and that there could be more total money out there for sure. Is there somebody willing to go for a hundred? You know, maybe I would think maybe somebody would go, you know for a hundred but the last year is half guaranteed or something like that. Like, you know, you sort of fudge the numbers a little bit that's still a lot. I think for the ridge you're taking with with his health. I mean maybe you guys are just like, oh, you know these there are people who think that these are not like injuries that are injury-prone injuries, right? They're held to sort of like freak injuries. I think that's a hard thing to sell especially as he moves into his thirties. So I don't know if there's that much money more than that out there. I think there's much money is out there in. No honest. Well, I think I think 370Z probably out there somewhere. I think that Atlanta maybe the Knicks maybe Charlotte can't really get there unless it's a sign-and-trade although we work, you know, there's a good relationship between the teams and based on what what the the last year. And they could try to jump the salary to like Charlotte, Yeah, you can hiring and then make some more room but I look could go right back to Indiana and like salary match off of of course Myles Turner the name that always comes up here and you get back to the same sort of number again. It's like but I think that that that's sort of the number where he's most likely doing it. Maybe we all just sort of shocked and it gets blown away and there's like, oh my God, why would anybody give them that that offered sometimes that happens but only takes one way yeah, totally right? I mean that's what it is like the Knicks get left out everything else and they're sitting there going. Well, we gotta we gotta make the salary floor somehow and we don't want to you know, we want somebody to throw lobs to our 18 power forwards. I don't know. What was that know. So at this point assuming assuming the Gordon because I mean Mannix just Chris Max just we had before we started recording. This is Thursday night that we're doing this that Gordon Hayward is most likely played his last game and a Celtic uniform. Yeah, and if that's the case don't you think Myles Turner is a pretty good return know like I don't own no. don't think that's Good value on that contract like in a would you like Myles Turner over nothing next year absolutely. Like he's you know a slightly above-average player for a center. But when you when he's making twenty million dollars for the next two years on top of that and you could you know have a center for like half the money that's pretty much as good. I prefer that option over committing money to Turner that will kind of squeeze your flexibility. So my guess is if if Hayward is is hard intent on going to Indy and there are you know, I'm a reason to think that is the case in some form here. Then it is, you know, just a chess match between this other foreign office and and Pritchard with the Pacers in terms of being like give us something Beyond Turner that we want to make us do this and showed him his son his son Peyton. I mean, you know how much I you know, my sort of yeah General Disco Like four miles Turner, I think you would still have to do it. If it was that or nothing would it have to be that or nothing? Cuz it's like that here. It has to have somewhere else to go and that situation and that's where I think the Knicks off in the Hogs come into play here because I'm not convinced like they are going to be waiting around for with an offer for Hayward. Like if you look at the names out there on the fridge of Market with only 2000 teams have serious cap room here. Like you're talking van Fleet Christian would you know Joe Harris? Obviously, you could stay put Montrezl Harrell Milsap Gallinari. Jeremi Grant bertans bogdanovic, Pope. Some of those guys are staying put but some of those guys aren't staying put and all it takes is like two offers from those teams and haywards leverage goes away just like that. So what are the Celtics doing that situation like in your in your mind? That's I mean, that's question. Why do you want him back if you what is that is that it seems like it might be time for them to go their separate ways off. Yeah, I agree with you rich in terms of like if you wants out then I say, okay. We'll get I want something else Beyond just Turner from Indy. That's a valuable like our because or I'd rather just have Hayward on a year and then maybe you you know, like you say you do that player option or you you trade him midseason or some like that you hold out for something a little off if you're saying that's off the table. If you're going under the premise of there's no way he's coming back and he would sign he would go to New York, whatever and and like your options are I'm going to go sign in New York, or you can trade me to Indiana and they're saying they will send back Myles Turner to make it work and like if you just cut everything else out in those the only two options. We would do go to Every signing with and and say we'll give you a draft pick to make this a sign-and-trade and we'll take a trade exception. They might say no to that even then. I don't know. I'm like, would you rather have a trade exception or would you rather have Myles Turner? Almost rather betrayed. I mean maybe Turner for the like obviously obviously Turner for next year, but depending on how big that trade exception is. Like I just don't see Turner's value increasing think that's not going to be a plus contract at all during it's written. I mean I could be wrong. No, I don't either right or Bradley be that do you like do you like mousetrap? Like what's I mean twenty million isn't what it used to be. Right? Like that's that's actually like not that much money. I mean talking about a starting NBA Center who can shoot who can block shots like literally led the league in blocked shots and what he doesn't rebound right? Right. Is that what you guys big big knocks on Myles Turner? Again, and and he's this situation million dollars for a center is basically my knock on him. He's a fine. I mean, he's a okay. He's an average starting center and like you can get those guys for five million dollars. So why pay 18 million to any of them? Are you sure we have and have Daniel theis five million dollars worth of like sneak. That's an upgrade that turn as an upgrade on size. I mean, I've been in this argument over and over with different people. I don't think I think it's a you know a slight downgrade if you want to tell me it's a slight upgrade, you know, depends on the matchup sort of either way either way you're saying it's slight and the money doesn't doesn't make that's my main problem with it. Yeah, and now twice every time you spend five million dollars I said, you don't get off work out as well as Daniel's eyes. I completely understand that but just look at the center Market this year and who has money and it's like somebody good and and just good and reliable is going to go for the tax, you know the facts. Ellie yeah, and and again, it's not necessarily the Celtics will be able to be the team that signs those players is a number of teams. Are we looking for him? But like it just isn't doesn't seem to be a good use of resources. But but really liked to the reason I would do it is because I want matching salary and a name player that I can try to trade for Bradley Beal in a year. And if you sign somebody, you know, if you pick somebody up out of the scrap into a into a trade exception that player just got dumped for basically nothing or maybe one draft pick like how much value they really have and there's a lot of like just anchoring right on like what are people's perceptions of a player is worth and would Washington can you know, see twenty-four twenty-five year-old Myles Turner as being better than whatever you feel with trade exception if ultimately that's like your end game. It's I want to be able to trade in in a year off or Bradley Beal or in two years or three years for Devin Booker. Like that's what you're hoping for sort of how this play out and and including Kemba and all that stuff is is one way to make all the money work, but that's more complicated cuz wage. See a team trading away Bradley Beal isn't going to necessarily want camel Walker and it just it just sort of simplifies certain things. And even if it means that you have to pay two million dollars for a center who I don't particularly like for a year and risk getting stuck with them and having him not improving. Anyway, it's like think you have to just sort of bite the bullet and do it. If if literally your only other option is like we can get a TV but have to pay a first-round taking order to make it happen. That's that's pretty bad too. But even then though like you look at the Des staring match of the posturing match between you know, the bar scene is is trying to work right now dead and creating, you know, Hayward opting out the biggest thing you did was create, you know, he still has the leverage. He still has the the walk factor for nothing, but that could be gone by the end of Friday night if if the next and the Hawks use a big chunk of their cap room and then at that point, who do you guys think is in control Rich win if Hayward has nowhere to go he doesn't wash off. I'm back where you know and you don't like and if you're Danny agent, you don't like moisture in or you just don't like what they're offering a sign-and-trade like what what do you do in that spot when Hayward has no other boss real, you know, pretty course. Yeah. I mean, I guess a lot of it comes down to the real reason why Gordon might not want to be here anymore. Like do you guys think it's it's more money or it's more like, you know them both sides tried like the luck has been really shity and maybe he you know, he like he said he wasn't pitched come be the fourth option with with Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Kemba Walker right off that that wasn't why he came here and maybe he wants to leave for other reasons. What do you what do you think is it more money? Is it more fit as he want to change the scenery or he wants to get more money guaranteed? It's not going to get more money. He'll get more you get more money guaranteed over month of years. Right? But like as we started out saying like it's not going to get anywhere close to 34 next to you know, we're talking about a longer-term deal, but you have to really be thinking like I'm I'm going to have a bad enough years in Austin were like, there aren't going to be any better options next year and some of the stuff like coping in the cap not going up it but marks can be a little bit tighter than we thought next year but like they're still going to be a lot of money out there. And if he believes that he is a level of player who can go out and find other team then you think you would believe that he can have a good enough ear next year in order to get another contract. I think it's more the the other option is that he doesn't he doesn't like it here. He's he thinks it's cursed his own family doesn't particularly like it here. Maybe he doesn't like the role that he's in he wants to re-establish himself as an All-Star. He views himself as something different than what you know what I think he actually is at this time. And you put all that together and it's yeah, we'll just looking for something new a career change sort of sort of deal with my guess but you know, it's not like he's given us a lot of information wage went to the last second just to tell us if he was coming back or not. I don't I don't think there's been a whole lot more in terms of being forthcoming about this kind of stuff and the headlines still might be you can still come back right even with as you said it started out, you know, as you started out saying like this has nothing not a whole lot has actually changed here. So it's it's fascinating from that sound like I just how I mean, I think it would it's safe to assume that he's obviously looking around and you know coming back to Boston as far from you know option number one firm, but is it a What's difference between that versus like I don't want to go back no matter what and you know, maybe he want to see hey what what can I get out there? And you know, he wasn't going to know for sure what he took it out there unless he opted out here and clearly take the ball out of the Celtics hands in terms of you know, he lose all control and the Celtics probably aren't going to trade him or at least try to trigger month before million dollar option if he's not going to you know, play ball or signal that he's willing to stick around. And so maybe this is a way to just you know, he test the water here and there's not much there and so he it's eventually coming back to the Celtics. It's not the ideal thing that he wants but made for one year. It's what makes the most sense for for him. I don't know if it would make sense for the Celtics just to take him back for a year as opposed to obviously getting back some future resources for him but dead. Be an interesting decision if it comes to that and let's say he has a chance of he comes back and if you can somehow stay healthy, he could have a really really good year in the Celtics could still be really really good. Oh, yeah. Well, you know that that is a reality. That's the highest subside play I think for next year for sure. It's him back Nesmith fills the bench void for shooting em, you know, Langford Rob Williams growing, you know other bench guys develop they still can add a pretty they could add a player for 9 million with the mid-level that could be real useful Off the Bench and took a team there again that involves Hayward being there though to to to maximize that so just the sort of some of the edge stuff around around that if he comes back I am guessing they would not spend the mid-level be too hard to be a roster yet partly for tax purposes partly just cuz of roster Council like again, if you if chapters out then there's a little bit more money down. To maybe spend there and and kind of a need for another veteran solid Center. You would think there's a little bit in there. But like I don't know how much more there would be an in terms of improvement other than just internal Improvement of which should be substantial like the player that Jayson Tatum is this year's any better than the player. He was last year the player Jaylen Brown and and a Lankford is looking like it's going to be another injury-hit season. We might be he might be out for at least like half the season if he's dead. It's such a sensational argument. Yeah, I mean to come back for that. Basically One play get injured again now have multiple injuries missing the beginning of your second year and a condensed like all that we could maybe another day but there should be quite a bit of internal Improvement. I think that's where most of it would would come from. But yeah in terms of one year upside him coming back and in some manner, I think it would be very difficult for him to come back for one year for less than what he just left for though. And I don't think there's a scenario where the Celtics would re-sign him for that amount considering that it would be Fifteen million into the luxury tax and would they be better off just at that point just saying like I don't like Emily signings in general. I think that historically they're just bad to pay the full Emily but wage again in the situation of like trying to build up some salary for trades on the line. Would you just sign somebody for the mle at that point for three years and like say that that's better than bringing it back to that full amount and it just it's hard to break his agent would be hard for him to like opt-out come back for you know, basically one year and as you talk about maybe the second year two player option, you can make some things balance out like that, but that's why I sort of come down and I like three year number of like, hey, we are actually going to We don't want this to be a situation from where from day one. Everything is still strained and everything is still up in the air. We need some amount of settling here of like, okay, we're we're both are agreeing that we are going to be together here for at least a couple of years again. Otherwise, there's just such like a cloud hanging over everything as well and it's hard for me to see and I'd get the idea of like if there's no other options out there if there's no other options out there. I think that's when you come back to like three sixty-five million 368 million seventy million, right like in that sort of range and that's better for everybody unless it's really if he doesn't want to be in Boston then he's going to find them to leave. I agree. Yeah. I I just I wonder if it's at that point and if a football continues on this week, which has a few surprise teams at the top of the standings and you might not be able to be at a game. That's G, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline no matter how the schedules change or players that play bet online is going that extra mile to make sure you can get in on every game this season with the fastest updated on job. Industry they're always more options to wager than anywhere else online. So head on over to bed online today and take advantage of all the great mid-season bonuses offers and contests met online your online Sportsbook experts and now back to the show Rich. Where's where's Brad Stevens in all this you think yeah, cuz he seems to suggest that he's kind of staying out of this, right? Yeah. That's why you last night and he said when he was like, you know, he said him and Gordon have had so many conversations over the years before they even came to Boston obviously and like you said, I think that Gordon's kind of just taking this with his agent like it's become a business right now and brought seems to be saying like he knows that I'm here if he needs to talk but like Gordon has all the information that he probably needs at this at this moment and in that's not to say that the conversations aren't happening happening with Gordon Danny, but I wonder how much Brad is having a say in it. It's probably easier for him to step out when you say yeah, I think so. I mean, this is a I mean, it's been tough enough to watch them go through this if you're Brad Stevens last few years and now, you know getting into middle something like this makes it even tougher but I do Wonder like you know, what is case, you know, if you're the Celtics with with Hayward right now and he's you know, he's obviously shown his not his regrets are just you know, his concerns about coming back in his role. And you know, whether this is the right spot for him, like where what can can the team do anything, you know better to sell may like next year. You know, we're going to rest kembo more so we're going to give you more operation or is it a point where it's like, hey, sorry like we have these two really great young players and you keep getting hurt. So like what do you want us to tell you there should give him Al Horford's phone number in case he doesn't yet. So I should say give this this guy call and and ask him how how Oklahoma City is so it's really point. The selling point to me is pretty straightforward write it down. You want to go play for the Knicks or do you want to go play for an NBA championship? And if he wants to go play for the next bill? That just tells you something about where he is in his career and in his decision-making. It's like you can't there's no getting around that problem. Right if he's like, I want to go be the best player on a team. Well, it seems not going to be a good all the power to him. By the way, if if you want to know go for it, but that's not a player that you then want to commit multiple years to if like if it's starting point is I want to I want to see the, you know be the man. Okay. Certainly wouldn't be the first player was wanted that but you're going to you're going to do that for a team. That's not going to the playoffs or that's going to be the AC and get swept out whatever else like sort of going back to the Brad Stevens thing. I I think that's an issue to me. I think there's quite a bit of shine like off the Brad stevens or at this point those shine in or it don't make any sense together, but For one thing like yeah, it's easier for him to step out of it. But he is the head coach of the Boston Celtics and he makes a lot of money to like coach management team and he couldn't make it work with Kyrie Irving and that has led to one of their direct Rivals having Kyrie Irving and the player who they had cut, you know, basically went and got Kyrie hoping to be able to attract or at least one of them actually two of their Rivals have the two players that they took a drag Kyrie Irving one in LA and one in Brooklyn and he couldn't really make that relationship work the breakdown of that relationship as well as financial reasons, like data over leaving. It's stuff that we talked about last episode, right? It's These are all things that you can talk about independently and then you get into late playoff series and like he's had a couple of times where you've looked at it and been like he's kind of getting outcoached as well like in the actual games in the series and that's not to say that Brad Stevens should be fired is not to say that he's not a good coach but you know each year that and some of this is just this is what happens is you stay in a place longer and longer each year. Some of the shine does come off of like wage is hasn't shown the greatest ability to manage established veteran stars and he hasn't shown that he's like the absolute best tactical coach in in games. And he has a very long contract and he makes a good amount of money and like some of these things are like, okay. Well it's easier for him to step out of the Gordon Hayward conversation, but it's also like important to the future of the Boston Celtics that this is all resolved in a way that is amenable to everybody and if he has any way of helping that then I would suggest that he should but the question I think becomes like what is helping that like enquiries case like do you think the Celtics would be better off right now if they took it up with Kyrie and convincing this day, I don't probably because he would have probably would have brought Kevin Durant. I mean so you so you think the the Nets are in a better place in the Celtics right now. Well, if you had Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant and Jayson Tatum, that would be pretty good. Right that would be pretty good. But we're talking about we're talking about Durant off his Achilles we're talking about Kyrie who has not since that since that one that series with LeBron has not shown that he's a guy you necessarily want to count on like if you guys literally quit in a playoff series. I don't know if that's all about his relationship with Brad Stevens as well as his relationship with himself probably more than birth. Yeah, I don't think he quit I think he threw the series like maybe I'm on the far end of the extreme, but I think he wanted to get out of Boston. It was like if we keep winning these series and I may have to that's going to be harder for me to leave and was like, I'm going to start losing these games. I have to be replaced them with and Kemba has his own challenges of in terms of being, you know being at the very top end of the playoffs as well. I think so in terms of like it's difficult to get away from the fact that Anthony Davis change teams and made it very clear that he did not want to come to the Celtics. And because I'm did in fact came up with Kyrie Irving and it's not with the Celtics. Like I don't know those that is pretty clearly what they were planning to try to achieve and you can say that it you know looking today maybe whether you would like it or not, but like what they were trying to achieve didn't happen because of a pretty significant breakdown between the team and a star player sure. But yeah, I just don't know if I go either Brad Stevens again the second part that you're talking about tactical like what happened against the Heat especially with Spoelstra again losing this poster is not you know, losing to the best right, but you don't think about Brad Stevens as a guy who's going to get coached. We have seen that happen, but I just don't necessarily think his relationship with the players. It doesn't concern me losing Kyrie Irving. I think I'm in Steve Nash probably is will learn that soon enough, right and how horribly I don't think that was because of of Of Brad Stevens. What do you think? It's just because you lost control of the team. Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of it. I think he was made it pretty clear that you know the relationship with Kyrie the entire state of the team. I think there was sort of did he say it actually that if he had known that Kendall was coming he he might have stayed like so she's saying right, but he he didn't he had a quick comment about it off and then the numbers wouldn't have worked. There's all the stuff that you can get whatever they can say that it wouldn't have they wouldn't be able to make it work it necessarily anyway, but Just the the way that that season went in the way that that very brief little era sort of collapsed in on itself. I don't think you can just absolve the head coach of that. And I also think that when you get into the playoffs like I think he got out goes out coached by Nick nurse as well. They won the series who they were a better team, but you know, if you're talking about tactical level like you see the 8th best tactical. I don't know. It's not dead. He's not the third-best. He's not the absolute best man manager. And again, I am not absolutely not calling him like to be fired. But if you're talking about where is he in the hierarchy of coaches like he's not The absolute best coach in the league right now. I think it's fair to you know in the top tier of them. Yeah. I think that that's a reasonable thing to say and this is just another part that plays into it. Like why is the guy who hears this relationship with wanting to leave the team? Is there something that could have been managed better along the way again, maybe it's not maybe all these things are just independent things and this is the way it goes. But you know, I think to your point, I mean, I think the last point you made is the biggest one I have right now with with perhaps even in like in the the Haywood relationship and you know, this is of any guy that you'd hope be able to manage that, you know are just help, you know, keep the Buy in or figure out what's going on there at least have you know, the the knowledge to give Danny age heads up being like hey, I don't know if Gordon it's like we don't know he didn't like we I mean true that could have happened anyway, and they just set up we're going to we're going to try to play this out cuz we're we think we have a chance of this last season and but to Rhinebeck to like defend brats, he was a little bit they're dead. I think kind of you know the front out, you know, I do think he was outcoached in those series, but I also think he was a guy short Off the Bench with Hayward heard and yeah, I'm not very limited object. I put just as much of the blame pie. I'm like the front office for that as like Stevens in terms of the coaching stuff like normal problem with that. Like I don't think it's been the best couple, you know, the best couple of years for the fridge is either in both cases. They'll your there's a slight degradation of this right there was a time not that long ago where it was like, oh they have one of the top three for an office has one of the top three or five head coaches and now it's like maybe they have one of the top ten front offices and one of the top ten head coaches, which is still very good and they have made three of the last four Conference Finals. Like this is not a bad team. It's not a bad front office. Not a bad coaching staff. They the thing that they've done the best with over the last couple of years is making some very astute including the one of the best draft decisions you'll ever see with with Tatum and developing Young Players Club. Which is really important like hugely important. It's why they've gotten to where they want. So it's not like every single thing is in the negative. This is not the Knicks being coached by Mike Woodson or something like this is feeling good situation, but the small margin of error at the top two between getting green if we hold all the players so that standard why why not also hold the coaching and front-office to that standard. It's I guess where I'm coming from, let's let's pivot to wrap up to the draft for a second unless we have any I mean any closing thoughts in the Hayward situation before we talk to rep or Thursday to bring It full circle that's you know, when we talk about what what what kind of fucked-up that the most recent error that Kyrie Irving era of of Celtics basketball. It's that first injury, right? I mean that really changed everything and Thursday. My throat is that Gordon was not able to stay on the court and I don't know what anyone was going to do to fix that important point that we we did not bring it to this like that. It is like the whole everything changed with that and it's never we saw glimpses of I think here it is best at points during this past season, but then they were derailed with injuries. In the midst of those. So again that makes me who is going to throw a big money of the guy that's been dealing with that's been that snake-bitten. I'm not sure, but it will be interesting to watch on Friday. But we go to the draft Now Rich the the draft pile of pics is is gone now officially and a good run. It was a good run like a few seconds. I got this year. We got a couple of seconds. They got a couple seconds for the number 30 I I don't watch too many college basketball. So, you know Ryan I had Max growing on who I wanted to laugh at how much he hated all the subjects pics last night. It was all cocky he was not enough but I kind of liked it a sense in a lease got they got Shooters, they like filled a need and I think somewhere where you know, the the drafting hasn't been great at least outside of the top-10. Obviously. The last few years is, you know, getting guys that aren't going to get on the floor under Brad Stevens and at least I think in Nesmith and Pritchard, it's a couple of guys that are look like they're ready to help generate. You know, these are can hit threes against his own you guys see the Pritchards older than Tatum. I don't know if that's been mentioned a bunch already but no find the yep. What does he treat each month old right after he was born in January of 98 and then Tatum's marks of ninety-eight. So it's like a month-and-a-half older but still Wild. And yeah anytime you can get a guy when they say the best shooter in the draft from talking about. You know Nesmith that's that's what we can say three Angie guy. That's a nice if if he takes just takes jammies minutes to start, you know, we can go we can go from there. But it's I have no problem with the draft. I don't know like you say, I don't watch too much college hoops, but looks promising. I got a guy named yam of cause that way I can give an in-depth scouting report on. Yeah. I'm now now you guys own Emoji who knew there was a yam Emoji page for him or yeah, I mean so we obviously did have Max on and it's funny if you go back and listen to that episode like how much he how much of a disdain he has for some of the players who thought the Celtics ended up taking and how the players who he really really wanted them to take were all there and in some cases went to like one went to the Sixers like it's it's pretty funny and they were doing a live show that night dog. Is actually listening to instead of watching the ESPN feet cuz he has been so far behind what everybody's actually announcing on on Twitter. You know, we'll just and chance are breaking every single pic and they're talking to fix behind. So I was off Twitter for the job and I loved it. Right. I'm never off to it. I don't know how but their show like it was Max's also Celtics fan. He was just like devastated when when the pics came in which I find to be a little funny. I mean, I I always say I'm a draft nihilist like I don't believe that anybody should be that strongly invested in like their analysis of fixed. There's obviously a large difference between the guy who's the first over of the guy who's the 30th overall pick but there's not really a difference between the guy who's 14th and the guy who's nineteen just isn't like they're all in the same grouping go for it if there's a guy you like but there's this thing of people are like dogs lying on their like, oh my God, I can't believe they didn't take Tyrese Maxey. This was he was right there. He's perfect. He's the guy he has to be the one and the guy who they took as a stiff and he's never going to be anything more than a role player. And why would you do that? I'm just like nobody knows this and stop being so, Your own analysis. There's like how many how many weeks ago. Did you realize Tyrese Maxey exists people like draft Twitter like they watch a ton of video. Like that's great. I'm like that's you just there's no amount of video that you can watch for them to beat the draft. I promise everybody all of the teams, even the bad things even the teams that don't draft well have a lot of people who watch all the video like the Celtics have multiple people who have watched every relevant minutes out of all of the draft guys who they were considering entire lives. Like this is just it's not a matter of like that you can out video watch and and if people want to play in that space and have it be their hobby or whatever it might be then and that's fine just like don't get too attached to your own specific evaluations and try to keep like a big picture here of that. All of these guys are probably going to fail, you know, not not literally all of them, but like more of them are going to fail than are going to become anything really important. So, you know, I sort of come at it from that standpoint. I don't mind the Nesmith pic Daw. Um, I know what again we talked him on that episode. I think the point that I had brought up with what Max the thing about him was like if he's whenever you have a guy whose singular Talent is shooting. There is a risk that like they get off to a bad start and they shoot 34% in the first two hundred shots of their career and just like never recover from it. They just gas station and they're they don't get another chance and they end up on another team as a second draft guy and maybe they work out somewhere else where like are there any examples of that? You can think of I must and they don't exist. I just like to put a name to the I mean Chris Middleton those guys weren't as highly drafted. But yeah, I mean you can just get off to ya carsen Edwards will see yeah, right and like that can happen if you just have a particularly variable scale, but I don't think Nesmith is exactly that from what I can tell again. I don't know anything about him really but like anytime you draft a guy who's six six with a 6:11 span and you know pretty solid muscles, right whatever like he's not in the oil a factory exactly. But like this is not like a lightweight guy. It's not RJ Hunter and he bought some amount of offensive skills like to me that's actually a pretty high up sidekick almost always like just they have those are the guys who go 14th or 25th or whatever in the draft because they have some holes and then they become Klay Thompson. Unfortunately with the injury that we we heard about today, but also, you know, Chris Middleton and Jimmy Butler and Paul. George is a little bit bigger Kawhi Leonard, like none of those guys were known to be All NBA players are they would all been the first pick in their classes? Like they're all just sort of fit this profile like oh, yeah, they're about that size and they have these skills and they have a good NBA body and that is sort of by Nature a high-upside play off to me. It's actually a relatively big swing of like if he can't if he has a bad shooting stretch and he ends up not working out and losing the trust of the coaching staff, then it could be a bust but like he also does have the profile of somebody who could break out and be really good. And so I don't know I don't I don't have a problem with it. I'd but you go back to the idea of like I wouldn't have really had a problem if they ten other guys as well cuz I don't know that much about him and they're all probably kind of the same name just don't pick a center. I'm happy and I guess the biggest thing is they're they're going to get a shot right away cuz really like fruits hurt and ship me off going to be gone Brad Wanamaker. I'd imagine there's a chance he's back but he's probably going to be gone and who knows Gordon here which would be gone to so well, they need wings. I mean, they they definitely birth. Has a ton of wings, but especially in Hayward leaves like they need Wings everywhere. You need Wings These Wings, they need they need Wings hayward's leaving cuz I've like originally might come back and under some circumstances. I like seeing that you don't want him playing on the wing form for you. It's just if you have no choice. So they're going to probably a guy or two and for you to see yeah, it's good, you know getting a point backup point guard was a need and a wing was a neat and they got a couple of Shooters of those spots that arguably some of the best in the class. So it'll be interesting to see them just hit the ground running about summer league. Like how do you like training camp Bridge just them guys will probably be joining mid training camp depending on like quarantining and taking when they sign in free agency or when trains go down. It should be pretty just nuts and the next month. Yeah. That's a good wage. It's nuts. I think about the time this game and it's going to be the worst quality basketball. Anyway this game three torn ACLs for Christmas the picture pictures of everybody hates that day. I really within Celtics player just not real life. That's just one slice of it, but like everybody hates that pic and I'm just like they need a backup point guard and I don't know seems fine. Yep. The parking lot from the highlights. There is 6 to like he looks tiny but he's visiting like TJ McConnell. I think people look at me like why are we drafting TJ McConnell? He's just like little white guy. You're like, he's actually like 6 to he's he was the boss name is the point guard of the year last year and in all of college. He can shoot Bob Cousy whatever there's plenty of those guys to like again. If you're sorry I said if you in that sort of area where the cells are drafting draft of sometimes they break out and turn good. If you're looking for backup point guards, there's just so many back up when cars that have dropped between like twenty-five and forty-five and they all looked kind of like this or like a lot of older players who had really good success in college and they come in and they play as backup point guard for four or five years and then you get another one. It's fine got shut out from Dame Lillard on Twitter. That's good enough for me. Pretty sure did. Yeah. Yeah song like congrats dad does for you rich speaking of which time for me to go back to dating indeed. All right. Well, thanks for coming back aboard. Yes. I'll do have some be able yo. Tomorrow morning tomorrow morning with this is all over. This is all Everything Everything Has Changed we can we can get back together and and discuss again. All right, we'll get this posted. Hopefully if in ten minutes worth it gets to dated, but hit us up at winning play Spot on Twitter hit Rich up at Richard Levine at danger cart at Bryant. I robbed and we will be back with you guys. Hopefully I if something big happens will be back this weekend with an update and everything and as always thanks for listening.

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